The Echo Knight: D&D Build #162

okay the last few DND D builds I've done on the  channel have been a lot of fun really high on   concept and flavor but arguably a little low on  the damage aspect nothing wrong with that but   today I'm in the mood to build something  that just hits like a truck welcome to [Music] D4 hey everybody so here at D4 each week I do a  deep dive into character builds for my favorite   role playing games I like to crunch numbers about  them I like to Theory craft about them not so that   I can tell you the right way or even the best way  usually to play a certain character but to explore   one potential way to build something that is both  powerful yes but also really fun to play in game   so if you enjoy creating characters for your role  playing games almost as much as you enjoy playing   the actual game itself or if you're just looking  for tips or ideas on how to build something that   you're thinking about playing then welcome home  this is where you belong and I'm so glad you're   here so thank you for watching my name's Colby if  you enjoy what I do here I would really appreciate   it if you would consider joining the channel as  a member there's a little button down there you   click join it'll tell you about all the perks  you can get for not very much money you can get   access to the library of writeups that I create  for each of these builds to help you recreate the   build yourself a little more easily access to the  D4 Community Discord server filled with lots of   wonderful kind awesome people and even access to  the monthly live Q&A hangout sessions that we do   huge thank you to all of my channel members you  guys are so awesome I could not do this without   you and everybody else you are so incredible as  well thank you for just being here watching liking   subscribing clicking on the notifications Bell  these are all great ways to support the channel   so if you don't feel like joining as a member  that's fine I'm not offended I appreciate the   support that you do give so one request that I  get a lot of on this channel is to do an echo   night build typically when those requests come in  I like to point people to the variety of builds   that I have done to date that use the echo knite  like the Vengeance Paladin or the crit Lander or   the more recent flurry of Darkness to name a few  but I realized recently that I have never so far   as I can recall anyways done a build that is  mostly an echo knite and that seems like a   bit of a shame since one could argue that they are  the most powerful fighter subass in the game or at   least one of the most powerful this little gem of  a subass comes to us from Matt Mercer and friends   over at critical role but make no mistake though  it is wild Mount content do I say that right wild   Mount I want to I want to say the E is it just  wild Mount anyways while it is critical roll   content it is also considered to be official DND  material unlike say The Blood Hunter or like the   Gunslinger subass also player options right  available in D and D beyond the echo knite as   well as the chroner G magic and graviter gy Magic  wizard subclasses are official D andd 5e content   and as such a lot more DMS the world over tend  to allow them at their tables as opposed to other   non-official critical role stuff now I appreciate  that not all tables would allow the subass whether   because they just don't like critical rle material  in their campaign setting or even Ebron material   or Ravnica material or Dragon Lance Etc or because  they think the subass is overpowered and you know   there's not much of an argument that I can  make against that first reason for disallowing   Echo Knights sometimes DMS just really want their  world to feel cohesive and a little more focused a   little less Multiverse right pizza Papa always  gets paid whether they've created a home brew   world of their own or are strictly playing like a  fun sword Coast kind of campaign but for those who   think the subclass is just playing overpowered I  mean I'm not sure I'd agree with that to be fair   I did write this Preamble before I had crunched  the numbers um but I'm going to stick to it for   the most part sure getting some extra attacks  is really strong but since those extra attacks   are severely limited to Constitution modifier  number of times per day right I do think it is   a lot less potent than say the extra attacks you  get from gloomstalker which I have no intention   of also using for this build that would be  Preposterous and while sure echon knites do   get other cool and useful and potent features too  that we'll get into obviously I don't know that   I would argue that this subass is more powerful  than say the hex blade warlock at least if we're   talking you know multiclass dips or maybe the blad  singer Wizard or the aforementioned gloomstalker   or of course Twilight and peace clerics I mean I  might even argue that a straight classed Paladin   regardless of their subass is at least as if not  more powerful than an echo knite I mean keep in   mind that as good as they are Echo Knights are  still Fighters mean meaning no spells among other   things not saying Fighters are bad surely it is  my most ofus used Class if you look at all of   my builds as a whole though more often than not  I'm usually just dipping into fighter right not   building mostly Fighter characters and so yeah  that fact alone that they don't have spells might   keep Echo knites from ever being considered too  powerful compared to other classes and subclasses   so hey why don't we put the idea to the test let's  build a mostly Echo knite and see how their burst   damage capabilities stack up to other burst damage  builds that I've done so far maybe I'll discover   that I'm wrong and that the subass is just way  too good maybe I will especially at early levels   but I am willing to find out and so I proudly  present DND build number 162 the echo knite   fighter but first a word from our sponsor magic  spoon you know I really love it when magic spoon   is the sponsor for the video because it means I  get a great EX excuse to have a delicious bowl   of cereal in the middle of my day and with magic  spoon even though today is low carb day I don't   have to worry because not only is cereal delicious  but it has 0 g of sugar only 4 to 5 G of net carbs   per serving which is crazy low for cereal and 13  to 14 g of protein also amazing and they have so   many Fantastic flavors my favorite as you probably  know by now is maple waffle but I also love cocoa   peanut butter blueberry muffin fruity frosted uh  this is a new favorite chocolate chip cookie that   I just got all of these flavors seriously bring me  back to when I was a kid watching Saturday morning   cartoons but the nice thing about them is that  they have that same kind of nostalgic flavor but   with grown-up ingredients no artificial flavors  no artificial dyes I love it oh also in case you   didn't know they actually have these fantastic  cereal bar treats as well if you need some low   carb high protein snacking on the go 1 g of sugar  1 to 2 G of net carbs and only 130 calories in   each serving with the same great taste as their  cereals you've got chocolatey peanut butter   blueberry muffin bunch of others so go check  out magic spoon head over to this link here [Music] [Music] if you're in Canada or the UK great news  magic spoon ships there as well as the US so huge   thanks to Magic spoon you guys are awesome love  your products and let's get back to the build   huge thanks to my good friend Randall Hampton  for the Fantastic artwork that he did for this   build he does this every week if you guys would  be interested in following him on social media or   reaching out to try and commission him to create  some art for your character or maybe your entire   party I will put links in the video description  as always on how to do so all right at level   one yes uh as I so often do we are going to start  fighter today for our starting class but this time   I don't have to feel sheepish about it as for our  race if we're focused on burst damage like we are   and we're making attacks especially if it's a lot  of attacks like we will be and we don't have any   setup round getting in the way of our burst damage  which we won't for the most part then it's almost   impossible I think not to go bug bear seriously  this race is so good not so much for the reach   they get on melee attacks which is fantastic  and the other nice features they have like Fay   ancestry powerful build and sneaky but primarily  because of the surprise attack feature which tells   us that when we hit a creature with an attack roll  they take an extra 2 D6 of damage if they haven't   taken a turn in combat yet and no my friends  there is nothing that would indicate that this   only happens once on that opening round it's every  attack we make so long as the enemy hasn't gone   yet I know I have a hard time believing it too  but there it is if your DM wants to Nerf this to   Once on a turn that's their prerogative of course  but in that case I'd probably go a different route   for race here like variant human or custom lineage  for a free feat and I mean at that point you might   have to ask your DM is this really what you want  another custom lineage character from me nobody   wants that anyways as for ability scores I assume  that we go the point by Method as always and say   let's take a 15 strength uh Plus one from our  racial there a 14 Constitution a 13 dexterity plus   one there and a 13 wisdom plus one there remember  as per more recent DND books right every race can   decide where to assign their ability score bonuses  and they can either take a plus two and a plus one   or three plus 1es we'll do the latter for this  build I mean alternatively we could get up to   a 16 Constitution and then just do a 13 dexterity  and a 13 wisdom but as important as Constitution   is we will need need both dexterity and wisdom to  be at least out of 13 for multiclassing purposes   and will benefit a decent amount from both you  know if we could get them up to 14 having a plus   two in each will be nice not just for important  saving throw purposes but for initiative and   important skill checks as well I think I'd rather  have each of them at plus two than leaving them at   plus one so that I could get one more bump to  Constitution personally but you do you as for   equipment here nothing super crazy I'm going  to say you know just take the standard stuff   like chain maale you could either go sword and  board right like a d8 weapon and a shield or a   big two-hander your great swords your Ms will want  to get to that point eventually but I don't think   it's a terrible idea to go sword and board for the  first few levels anyways you know getting a plus   two Armor class from a shield is probably worth  giving up the 2ish more damage on a hit that we'd   get from using a great sword or a maul over like a  long sword right especially in those early levels   when things are pretty dangerous but either route  is probably fine and yeah sure if you wanted to go   scal mail instead of chain mail with our plus two  bonus to dexterity the AC is the same either way   not until we can find plate mail do we really  prefer heavy armor on this build as a fighter   one then we get second wi first off which just  lets us use a bonus action once per short rest   to heal ourselves for a d10 plus our fighter level  always nice and then we get a fighting style and   yeah even though we're building for damage on this  character and I am planning on using a two-handed   heavy weapon eventually I'm not going to take  the great weapon fighting style here as it's   pretty crappy but instead we'll opt for Superior  technique which lets us learn one Battle Master   maneuver H we get a single D6 that resets on a  short rest to fuel that maneuver with and we will   be taking for our maneuver perhaps predictably a  trip attack which lets us add that D6 in damage   on a successful attack and then Force an enemy who  is large or smaller to make a strength save or be   knocked prone and of course will have advantage  on attack against prone enemies if we attack them   from within 5 ft so we really love this to set  up a strong round of burst damage early on at   level two speaking of burst damage at level two  we get the almighty action surge letting us yes   once per short rest take two actions on our turn  instead of one which for us of course will mean   more attacks lots more attacks eventually lots  and lots and lots because at level three we get   our fighter subass our Marshall archetype and  yes of of course we are going with echo knite   echo knits get some really strong features right  here at level three their best features I would   argue and that's why I don't think I've ever taken  levels in Echo knite much past this point maybe up   to extra attack depending on the build because  everything that we need is right here first up   we get manifest Echo this tells us that with a  bonus action we can summon a magical translucent   gray image of ourselves it's not technically  a creature and has no stat block to speak of   but it lasts until we dismiss it or is killed or  we become incapacitated or we end our turn 30 ft   away from it right it's pretty dang squishy it  only has an AC of 14 plus our proficiency bonus   with one single hit point though it is immune to  all conditions and uses our saving throw bonus for   its saves importantly and people in the comments  always seem to forget this even if it dies we can   just summon it again with a bonus action there's  no limit given on how often we can do this and   there's no no reason we couldn't just summon it at  the beginning of the day right when we wake up and   then have it available to us when combat begins  since it doesn't expire after a set amount of time   or anything now we're told that when we take the  attack action on our turn any attack that we make   can originate from either our space or the echo's  space and we choose for each attack that's really   cool and can potentially lead to some fun ping  ponging Shenanigans if we have a nice way to do   forced movement especially right yes I've got that  on my to-do list I think I'll make a ghost Lance   build one day but also when a creature moves away  from our Echo we can make an opportunity attack as   though they were moving away from us potentially  really useful and then finally as a bonus action   we can magically swap places with our echko at  the cost of 15 ft of move speed regardless of   the distance between us that's especially potent  when we remember that though the echo is destroyed   if it's ever more than 30 ft away from us at the  end of our turn like I said we can move them up   to 30 ft on our turn with no action required  by us meaning we could for example move them   from 30 ft away from us if they were starting out  at 30 ft away right move them 30 more to be 60 ft   away then teleport switch places with them after  which they'd be destroyed yes cuz they couldn't   get back into the 30t range of us right but we can  just resummon them with a bonus action it's not a   big deal or yeah I mean if they start 30 ft away  from us move them 15 teleport you know 45 ft away   and then move them 15 ft to get closer to you  keeping them from getting poofed anyways some   fun utility and potential combat tactics to play  with here no question the feature we care about   most of course for the sake of numbers anyways is  unleash Incarnation this tells us that whenever we   take the attack action we can make one additional  attack from the echo's position now we can only do   this constitution modifier times per day so twice  for us right now but it does say that we can do   this whenever we take the attack action keep  in mind that if we take the attack action then   action surge then take the attack action again we  are taking the attack action twice right we could   potentially then get two more attacks out of this  feature on one single turn at least once per day   anyways that'll be really great for those of us  who say are adding 2d6 damage to every attack we   make on the first round of combat for example as  well as other things that we'll be doing later to   add damage to every single attack right speaking  of which at level four we get our first ability   score increase or feat and we are going if you  can believe it with great weapon Master shocker   I know this feed is so good I am going to miss it  when the new players handbook comes out later this   year but to be fair weapon users are getting lots  of other nice Buffs so it's probably a blessing in   disguise that this feat is getting nerfed to keep  us from feeling like we always have to be taking   it or Sharpshooter on like weapon user builds  right anyways for now it tells us that when we   make an attack with a heavy weapon not just when  we make an attack with two hands on a weapon like   in balers gate three take a drink that allows for  versatile weapons to potentially take advantage   of this feat right and would in D and D anyways  where the weapon exists allow us to use great   weapon Master with double-bladed Simer I wish they  would make that change for DND D alas anyways when   we make an attack with a heavy weapon we can  take a minus five penalty to hit in order to do   10 more flat damage Chev also don't forget as I so  often do that if we get a critical hit or kill an   enemy we can make a melee weapon attack as a bonus  action awesome how often is that going to happen I   have no idea depends on your table depends on your  campaign what you're fighting etc etc but I think   it'll happen fairly regularly based on experience  I guess anyways and yes of course if you have been   going sword and board up until this point at  this level we want to switch to a two-handed   weapon so you know the great sword or the mall is  technically best numbers wise for that 2d6 weapon   damage a great ax is fine though to D12 is not a  big difference and now adding 10 to each time we   hit at level five we get extra attack so that now  when we take the attack action we can attack twice   and if we have a charge of unleash Incarnation to  burn three times and if we have action surge yeah   that's six attacks in a single round at level five  seven if we crit or kill something which we almost   assuredly will right thanks to the bonus action  attack from great weapon Master that's a lot of   attack um at level six we get yet another ability  score increase or feat I love Fighters for this   and you know you may be thinking that I'm going  to take polearm Master here but you'd be wrong   actually I do love the feat getting a bonus action  attack with the blunt end of the weapon is really   great but before too long we are going to have  something else to do with our bonus action that's   actually going to be better at least for our Nova  round numbers than even a butt action attack would   be right believe it or not and I mean yeah the  likelihood of us getting a kill or a crit at least   during our Nova round is really pretty dang High  to the point that I just as soon not worry about   taking the pole AR Master feet stick to our great  sword or Maul here and just bump our strength with   our ability score increase at this level so that  we can increase our hit chance and our damage when   we hit which will be really nice not to mention  the DC of our trip attack right keep in mind that   uses our strength or dexterity strength for us  and yeah tripping our opponent during our Nova   round is going to be really important all right  at level six it is time for our first damage report a combat for us at this level is pretty  straightforward we pretty much just hit stuff a   lot so yes I'm assuming that we've got our echko  out and on the first round of combat we're going   to want to just run up to our Target move our  Ekko up to our Target as well attack them three   times burning a charge of our leash Incarnation  right then action surge rinse repeat on the first   attack that hits of course we're going to want  to apply our trip attack and try to knock them   prone so that we'd have Advantage for the rest  of our attacks that round I'm going to assume   this is going to upset some of you mostly for the  ease of number crunching that we have advantage   on our attacks at least all of the attacks after  the first I know it's not 100% chance that that   will be the case in the name of exploring best  case scenario numbers right damage wise and in   the name of keeping the math relatively simple  for myself and because this is kind of what I've   done on other builds that use trip attack right  and I want to kind of compare apples to apples   here that's the Assumption I'm going to make  know that the numbers are slightly inflated   for that reason as for whether or not we'll get a  bonus action attack thanks to great weapon Master   let's assume that we're going to get one 50% of  the time honestly that feels a little low to me   but maybe that's fine since we're assuming that  we've got Advantage after the first attacks and   we could use something to kind of reel the numbers  in right so six attacks with a 2d6 weapon adding   2d6 more thanks to bug bear surprise attack plus  1 D6 on one of those thanks to our superiority   die plus four from our strength and 10 from great  weapon Master to each attack means a total of 25   D6 plus 84 damage with a 50% chance for that to  be 29 D6 + 98 holy crap and so against an enemy   with a 10 10 Armor class here we would on average  do 164 damage during our burst round Nova round   and against an enemy with a 15 armor class it  would be 121 damage on average what the crap flip table and compared to other burst damage builds  that I've done to date that's yeah that's uh   that's absolutely destroying everything else  that I've ever done by like 50 % did I say Echo   Knights weren't op okay now hold on just hold on  everyone sit down because yes there are a ton of   things that we have to consider with these numbers  here lots of grains of salt to be ingested first   off yeah I shouldn't be assuming that we've got  Advantage I mean the creature you're attacking   might not be larger or smaller in which case no  trip you might miss that first attack and then   of course not have tripped them or the second  or thirdd attacks even for that matter or they   might just make their saving throw against it  I should probably just assume that we've only   got Advantage like 50% of the time or something  like I say the biggest problem here is that if   I want to compare this to other builds that I've  done in the past yeah I kind of just assume that   the enem is prone in these scenarios and I'd  rather try my best to compare apples to apples   than anything but honestly even if we never had  advantage on any of our attacks we would still   be beating out any other build that I've done  to date for burst damage at this level in that   case it would be just by a little bit but yeah  so it's unquestionably still very powerful but   these numbers are also something that we could  only potentially achieve once per day right so   the more combat encounters you have between long  rests the less impressive this damage becomes sure   you can action Surge and trip attack per short  rest but in that scenario the numbers are a lot   less crazy and don't forget a ton of our damage is  coming from the bug Bear's surprise attack feature   what if we can't get into range of an enemy who  hasn't gone in combat on round one so much for   like a quarter of our damage and we only have a  plus two to our initiative roles at the moment   we might very well be taking our turn after all  the enemies have already gone anyways oh and note   we basically don't want to be using great weapon  Master on that very first attack it's so important   to hit to try and get them knocked prone right  and on the rest of the attacks that we get that   round if they are prone we're still turning  off great weapon Master at an enemy AC of 17   or higher not all that high right and if they're  not prone we don't want to use it above an enemy   AC of 15 even so yeah this is one of those things  where it's like if everything works and once per   day we are out of this world insane damage wise  but when it doesn't work and or during the rest   of our combat encounters we're strong but not  ridiculous but yeah I mean it's going to be a   lot of fun when we get to be ridiculous let's  see just how much more ridiculous we can make   it shall we so at level seven now that we have our  most important early features from fighter I think   it's time to do some multiclassing in particular  we want to find ways to get more attacks on that   opening round since that's when we're going  Nova and perhaps unsurprisingly for some of   you I think the best place to go for that is yes  Ranger so our Echo knite ghost and shade focused   fighter has now for some reason decided exed to  develop their tracking and survival skills why   maybe it's been part of your backstory all along  maybe it's not too far a stretch for a character   who's attuned to the shades of their own might as  a cycling swarm of Shadows and Strikes like we're   told in the you know flavor text uh that describes  the subass maybe that kind of character leaning   into that shadow and Gloom aspect of who they are  isn't too far a stretch and kind of makes an easy   linkup for this multiclass anyways as a ranger  one we get the Deft Explorer feature canny right   which gives us expertise basically in a skill  of our choice that we're proficient in I think   I'd probably take perception here maybe Athletics  but pick your favorite and then we get favored foe   which lets us proficiency bonus times per day and  with our concentration unfortunately Mark a Target   so that we do an extra D4 of damage to them the  first time we hit them with an attack on our turn   not bad if we're not doing anything else with our  concentration but we will be doing that shortly   because at level eight we would be a Ranger 2 and  that means we get Ranger spells and while there   are plenty of decent utility and Support options  to consider here the one we really want to make   sure to grab is yes the quintessential Hunter  Mark now this spell is rarely a great spell and   often times not even very good arguably but in  the right circumstances like when you're making   a boatload of attacks and don't necessarily  have a guaranteed bonus action attack anyways   it's pretty dang fantastic it's cast as a bonus  action requires concentration and then simply   does an extra D6 of damage to our marked Target  anytime we hit them with a weapon attack and   for us that's going to convert to a whole lot of  d6s during our Nova round especially and yeah you   can transfer it to another Target when the first  one dies with a bonus action right on subsequent   turns we also get another fighting style here  at Ranger 2 and of all the options available to   Rangers I think I'd probably take either defense  to increase our AC by one or maybe blind fighting   so that we can essentially have blind sight out  to a range of 10 ft really nice to have when you   need it I mean tell your warlock friend to go  ahead and cast Darkness if they've got it right   it's not going to bother you anyways at level 9 we  would be a Ranger three and that means we get our   Ranger archetype our subass and we of course are  going with gloomstalker which is really just so   dang strong and pairs so incredibly well with this  character here it felt almost impossible to not do   this and I think it's got some nice conceptual  synergies as well gloomstalkers get two really   strong features here right off the bat similar to  Echo Knights right first up dread ambusher gives   us a bonus to our initiative equal to our wisdom  modifier which makes me really glad that I went   14 decks and 14 wisdom back at level one giving  us a pretty respectable plus4 to our initiative   now which feels a lot better to me we also get  an extra 10 ft of move speed on the first round   of combat wonderful and above all if we take the  attack action during the first round of combat   we we get to make an extra attack that deals an  extra d8 of damage if it hits importantly the   wording here is similar to our unleash Incarnation  feature in that the extra attack is triggered when   we take the attack action meaning that if we  action Surge and take the attack action twice   during that first round then yes we will get an  extra attack from dread ambusher both times so   this has taken our opening round from six attacks  to eight with two of them getting an extra d8 of   damage now sheesh but I think umbrell sight might  actually be my favorite feature to pair with this   build Dre ambusher is better for the numbers of  course right but umbrell sight is just flavorful   and so cool it increases our dark vision that we  already had by 30 ft nice but then tells us that   if we're in the dark and a creature relies on Dark  Vision to see us we are invisible to them a lot of   enemies in D and D have dark vision and there are  a lot of scenarios where there might be a patch   of Darkness somewhere on the battlefield I mean  darkness is good for any gloomstalker but for us   with our ability to make attacks from our echo's  location it's way better because keep in mind that   when we make an attack from our echo's location  even though the attack is originating from the   echo's location we are still the ones making the  attack right so let's say for example that we've   got an enemy standing in like dim light or bright  light but there's maybe a patch of Darkness 20 or   30 ft away from them like outside of the range of  the torch light or something something well if we   put ourselves in that darkness and move our Echo  up next to the enemy that enemy is not going to   be able to see us even if they have dark vision  and so the attacks we make even if made from our   ekko's location will be made with advantage that  might feel a little counterintuitive and I can see   some DMS not wanting to rule that way but rules  as written that's how it should work the echo   isn't the one making the attack we are from their  location right and we are invisible to the enemy   as always go over things with your DM beforehand  to make sure that you're on the same page as to   how these mechanics work and I mean I was already  assuming perhaps faultily that we had advantage   on most of our attacks at least so this doesn't  really change things for number crunching purposes   but it at least makes me feel a little bit better  about assuming advantage since I think it'll be   even more likely to happen now depending on the  battlefield of course speaking of number crunching   at level 9 it is time for our next damage report  since last check we have gotten rid of that 50%   chance at a bonus action attack but have added a  D6 to all of our other attacks thanks to Hunter   Mark and also added two more attacks during our  Nova round that each get an extra d8 of damage   if they hit to boot we've even picked up a little  bit of utility and support capabilities thanks to   our Ranger but at this level with eight attacks  during our Nova round against enemies with a 10   Armor class we would on average do 253 damage  on average and against an enemy with a 16 AC   it would be 189 damage and compared to other  burst damage builds that I've done to date   at this level that's actually not just blowing  everything else out of the water believe it or   not it still has a slight Edge at those really  low enemy armor classes but once you get up to   even like middling AC and higher it starts to fall  below some of the other builds which I'm actually   kind of relieved to see if I'm being honest and  it actually brings up an important consideration   here as great as great weapon Master is there's  this kind of funny thing about it where the more   ways we have to add damage to each attack the sort  of worse great weapon Master becomes because while   sure a flat 10 damage on a hit is great if we're  adding two D6 from bug bear and a D6 from Hunter   Mark and a d8 on our dread ambusher attacks plus  our strength modifiers etc etc then that 10 flat   damage becomes less and less of the total damage  that we're doing and with the very painful minus   5 to hit that it brings we're better better off  not even using it at this level against like an   enemy AC of 18 or higher and at level 9 an enemy  AC of 18 might be just considered kind of average   or maybe even below average depending on your  table and your campaign right of course that   18 changes if we have a magic weapon increasing  our hit chance and like an ally casting bless on   us Etc then again if the enemies is not prone and  we don't otherwise have Advantage then it's even   lower than 18 so just keep this in mind right if  you play at a table where your DM tends to throw   some pretty difficult encounters your way on the  regular with enemies that are decently hard to hit   you might want to skip the great weapon Master  feat altogether on this build and just beine to   a 20 strength or other Feats which we'll talk  about later that said things change outside of   our Nova round right once we're not getting that  extra 2d6 from a surprise attack especially then   the 10 flat damage from great weapon Master  becomes a lot more valuable by comparison and   so for sustained damage purposes after round  one you might want to have great weapon Master   after all just things to consider when you're  building your character build it for your table   understanding what things are likely going to look  like in game once you get this character outside   of the lab right all right at level 10 I'm going  to say let's take just one more level of Ranger   here that would make us a Ranger four because  there's that ability score increase or feet   just right there and I'd love to cap my strength  score taking it to 20 again not only because it   increases our hit chance and the damage on a hit  but the D of our trip attack now I will say some   of you like to give me grief and rightly so  about constantly ignoring the alert feet on   my builds which is really strong it adds five  to our initiative role and keeps us from being   surprised to boot and yeah there's almost nothing  more important than winning initiative with this   character for burst damage purposes so I think  you could absolutely make the argument that alert   should be taken even before great weapon Master  honestly it just doesn't really do anything for   the numbers on the spreadsheets which I am Holden  to after all so that's kind of why you always see   me chasing the numbers and ignoring things like  alert but by all means feel free to take the   alert feet at some point along the way here maybe  even right off the bat it's not a bad idea at all   if I were playing this character in game I just  might do it if not at level four maybe at level   six I don't know anyways at level 11 yes of course  I want to get back to fighter because at fighter   11 we get that sweet sweet third attack with  the attack action right I know it's incredible   and yet it is five long levels away from where we  are right now and between here and there there's   a bit of a dir of features for Fighters at least  for damage purposes were I playing this character   in game I might just suck it up at this point  and get back to fighter take my medicine and   hold out for fighter 11 at least if I knew that  the campaign was going to go beyond level like   13 14 15 right but there is something we could do  fairly easily right now instead to give ourselves   another nice little damage bump if we really  wanted to maybe especially if we knew that our   campaign was going to end at around level 13 and  that would be to take a little Druid detour here   it's not perfect it's not without its drawbacks  but let's pretend that our foray into the gloomy   side of the natural world with our gloomstalker  levels got our character even more interested in   the things that grow in the Dark Places motivating  us to for a Time abandon our Marshall Pursuits in   favor of a desire to further increase our magical  Primal abilities especially around death and Decay   as a druid one then we learn druidic which is the  special language that Druids know so that they can   leave messages for each other in the woods with  twigs and leaves and things and then we get Druid   spells and sure good Berry healing word guidance  entangle maybe fog Cloud if we didn't already have   it especially if we took blind fighting right  uh and more spells are all worth considering   but I'm just going to say if here pick your favor  as nothing that's available to us is going to do   anything to increase our burst damage capabilities  but at level 12 we would be a druid 2 and and this   is where we get what we came for first up we get  wild shape all Druids get wild shape letting us   transform into a beast of challenge rating one  quarter or lower twice per short rest and that   provides some great utility but I'm not going to  spend much time talking about it because we have   other uses for our wild shaped charges since  we also get our druidic Circle here our Druid   subclass right and yes I think we ought to go with  the circle of spores because as a spores Druid we   get Halo of spores actually that's not the reason  Halo of spores is pretty crappy it lets us use our   reaction to do well a little bit of necrotic  damage to an enemy within 10 ft of us if they   fail a constitution saving throw and that's just  so bad that I don't even think I'll add it into my   damage calculations I would rather hold on to my  reaction in case I can get an opportunity attack   especially since as an echo Knight I can make an  opportunity attack if they move away from me or   from my echo's location right no the real reason  that we're here is for symbiotic entity of course   which lets us use a wild shaped charge to grant  us four temporary hit points per Druid level so   eight and then while we have at least one of  those temporary hit points do an extra D6 of   damage on all of our melee weapon attacks now an  extra D6 of damage is nice but there are several   drawbacks here first off as we said we only get  the damage so long as we've got those temporary   hit points right they're not going to last very  long but that's kind of the least of my concerns   with this ability for this build since we are  building for Nova damage I primarily just really   want them on round one anything I get out of them  after that is just gravy and you know temporary   hit points are temporary hit points always handy  the bigger concerns are that it takes an action   to get symbiotic entity going and that the ability  only lasts 10 minutes unlike in bg3 where it lasts   all day so much better take a drink was this  ability really worth a two-l detour you decide   if you think you will semi- reliably be able to  get symbiotic entity going before combat breaks   out whether because you've got a Great Scout in  your party who often gives a heads up about an   encounter just around the corner that you can then  prepare for right or because you might be able to   throw a buff on yourself during a villain's  monologue then sure an extra D6 of damage   on eight attacks is fantastic and the extra hit  points and additional utility and Support options   from Druid are an okay bonus on the other hand if  reliably being able to buff yourself in this way   before a combat encounter happens is rarely going  to fly at your table no worries I'd probably skip   through it and just go back to fighter but hey  a 10-minute duration is a lot better than a one   minute duration so I do think most of us could get  this going somewhat reliably making the Druid dip   at least worth considering I'll assume that we've  got it going when I crunch numbers going forward   another nice little cherry on top reason for  taking Druid though is that it lets us get the   wild companion feature which lets us use a wild  shaped charge to cast the fine familiar spell   right and that means we could summon a little  owl it unfortunately only lasts 2 hours for us   but this familiar could then grant us advantage  on our first attack and up until now I've been   assuming that we didn't have advantage on that all  important first attack we were making to try and   trip our Target so now I feel like I can sleep a  little better at night safe perhaps in my naive   assumption that all of our attacks now can be made  with Advantage ignorance is bliss but at level 13   all right fine let's go back to fighter so we can  eventually at least get that sweet sweet extra   extra attack that means we would be a fighter  7 now and as an echo Knight that gives us the   echo Avatar feature pretty sure this is the first  time I've ever gotten this feature on a character   build before it's not bad utility it basically  lets us like War into our Echo similar to what   we can do with a familiar which we already have it  L but this lets us see and hear through the echo's   location here this ability lasts for up to 10  minutes and we can move the Echo and see and hear   through their senses when the echo is up to 1,000  ft away from us without the echo being destroyed   this provides for some pretty interesting utility  we can swap places with our echko no matter how   far away from us they are right I don't know why  we couldn't move them all the way up to 1,000 ft   away like this and then swap places with them now  sure the echo would be destroyed at the end of our   turn since it couldn't get back to within 30 ft  of us right but again we can just summon it back   with a bonus action this could provide for some  fun utility helping us get into otherwise really   hard to reach places maybe even get surprise  on our enemy anyways let me know about some fun   ways that you have seen the echo used aside from  just the like I hit stuff more often feature right   I'm sure several of you have some really great  stories at level 13 though it is time for our next   damage report since last check we have capped our  strength modifier and added yet another D6 to all   of our attacks potentially thanks to symbiotic  entity I'm also going to assume that we've got   advantage on all of our attacks now like I've  said faulty though that assumption maybe finally   yeah we've picked up a bit more survivability and  utility and Support options which are always great   to have but here against enemies with a 10 Armor  class we would on average do 305 damage during our   Nova round and against 17 AC it would be 230  we broke the 300 mark against low enemy armor   classes anyways but compared to other burst damage  builds that I've done to date at this level that   puts us kind of in like the middle of tier one  now why have we not scaled quite as well as some   of those other builds the easy answer is spells  uh spells Andor smites when we have spells with   solid scaling damage or smites that scale really  well it is difficult to keep up damage wise when   we're just bringing like a non-scaling hunter  Mark to the party I actually thought of trying   to get Paladin levels on this build but if you're  going Ranger needing a 13 decks and wisdom you   just can't really mix with a paladin who needs  a 13 strength and Charisma right if you wanted   to dump Constitution sure but if we did that  then we couldn't take advantage of the unleash   Incarnation so why are we an echo knite right and  yeah I actually crunched the numbers comparing   gloomstalker to Paladin and realized that at  least up through this point in the character's   career we get a lot more out of our Nova round  from those dread ambusher gloomstalker attacks   and Hunter Mark than we would out of a few smites  and most campaigns End by this point in the game   anyway so it just yeah felt like the better choice  I mean regardless it's not like we're just limping   along here or anything I mean mid tier one is  still amazing damage and we've been cream of the   crop up until this point so nothing to be feeling  bad about not by a long shot at level 14 we would   be a fighter eight that means we get another  ability score increase or feat and sure if you   haven't taken it yet I'd grab alert for reasons  that we've already mentioned you could always   consider instead bumping like wisdom or dexterity  for both defensive purposes and also to increase   our initiative but I think alert is our best bet  here that said bumping Constitution wouldn't be   a terrible move either both for defensive and  concentration purposes but also to give us one   more use of unleash Incarnation per day for a  little more on demand burst damage right I mean   I should also mention I suppose that while we have  decided against it for burst damage purposes pole   arm Master is a nice feat to have for sustained  damage and though I kind of think that burst   damage is like the king and queen of combat in D  and d5e most of the time sustained damage is both   important and Powerful too obviously so yeah you  might want to grab pole arm Master here to get a   more reliable bonus action attack outside of your  Nova round especially if you come across a really   great glaive or halir and you know for that reason  you might have wanted to do that before trying to   cap your strength score at level 15 we would be a  fighter nine and that means we get indomitable my   least favorite fighter ability it tells us that  once per day you can roll a saving throw that   you fail H maybe we should have taken resilient  wisdom last level instead with that feet right   because yeah I mean the problem with indomitable  you're fairly likely to fail that save when you   roll it if it's anything other than a strength or  Constitution save honestly now if you're watching   this video after the new players handbook comes  out uh later in 2024 congratulations it looks   like indomitable is getting some very nice Buffs  so you are not quite so sad about this feature at   level 16 we would be a fighter 10 and that means  as an echo Knight we get Shadow marker this is   a nice little protection support focused feature  letting you sacrifice your Echo throwing them in   front of an attack directed at another creature  and taking the hit for them this hit will almost   L kill the echko but that's usually a lot better  than having one of your ally PCS take the hit so   good job bring your Echo back next turn with  the bonus action alas you can only be a martyr   like this once per short rest but it's not a bad  little feature but then finally for us at level   17 we would be a fighter 11 meaning that yes we  finally get that vaunted extra extra attack so now   during our NOA round we'll get uh yeah 10 great  weapon Master surprise attack attack Hunters Mark   symbiotic entity and strength infused attacks  hooray oh and of course on all of our non NOA   rounds having 50% more attacks is incredible and  maybe we should have skipped those Druid levels   after all but no sustained damage be damned we're  here for burst and burst we shall for our level   17 damage report since last check we've added two  more attacks to the mix and otherwise picked up   some nice support and defensive features and  so against enemies with a 10 Armor class we   would here on average do 383 damage during our no  round and against an 18 AC it would be 282 damage   almost broke that 400 Mark would have been sweet  but compared to other burst damage builds that   I've done to date at this level we're kind of like  more near the bottom of tier one actually despite   getting those two more attacks even again we just  haven't scaled quite as well as those casters and   smiters right not like we're feeling the pain of  our abysmal damage or anything like that so yeah   let's um let's wrap it up here with some final  thoughts the tier score for this build if you   take the damage that they do at each of the armor  classes that we calculate for at each of the four   damage reports and just average them all into one  big number we end up with a 198 which puts us not   surprisingly if you've been paying attention like  right in the middle of the pack for tier one an   incredible place to be and yeah importantly  I think we're at the top or very near the top   for those first 10 levels or so where most of us  are actually playing the game making this build   unquestionably among the elite of burst damage  builds to date from a peer numbers perspective   at least but yes like I emphasized early on let's  kind of keep our expectations in check a little   bit here shall We There are going to be times  where you will just feel Godlike with this build   I think you're going to get a good initiative  rooll make that trip or maybe someone else in   your party might be doing something else to give  you advantage or boost your hit chance and you're   going to just land every single one of those  incredibly hard-hitting attacks on your opening   round and in all likelihood kill multiple enemies  before the end of your first turn or put a massive   dent in a boss Etc but also if we're being  real sure they're going to be times where you   whiff that trip attack or they make their saving  throw and then you decide not to use great weapon   because they've got a decent Armor class and  you're going to roll poorly and maybe only land   a couple of hits and feel really underwhelmed but  hey I mean yeah this is D and D right the dice are   the dice I don't mind building something that's  amazing sometimes and just kind of okay other   times because my goodness when everything lands  yeah everyone at the table is going to have their   jaw on the floor and be cheering you on to Glory  everyone except the DM maybe final analysis is the   echo op admittedly I am a little more willing  to consider that argument now than I was when   I wrote the Preamble it's undoubtedly very very  good arguably still the strongest fighter subass   but I don't think even that statement is just like  undeniable or anything battl Masters Rune Knights   and eldrich knights could all make an argument for  being the best I think depending on how you were   building your character what you were looking for  out of your character sinites and Samurai and even   Arcane archers and perfect as they are definitely  can be really strong with the right build as I   think we've shown on this channel even Cavaliers  are great if you're looking for a tank especially   if your Mount is one of your fellow players as  for Champions and Purple Dragon Knights yeah sorry   guys you're kind of poopy but anyways yes Echo  Knights are definitely potent op maybe depending   on your table but really powerful and a whole  lot of fun to play unquestionably so I certainly   hope that you get to play them someday if you  haven't had the chance to do so yet but that's   the build for the week I hope you enjoyed it I  hope that you know how much I love you because   I do thank you for all that you do for me for the  channel you guys are so awesome I hope you have a   really fantastic day and a great week and if you  don't please hang in there you got this I hope   that you do good and that you be kind and that I  see you again very soon but until then take care bye may your heart keep close may your heart hold High louder louder than the [Music]  echo brighter brighter than the shad oh you are oh you [Music] are that song uh the Echo and the shadow  I mean how could I not sing that song for this   episode it's by uh the well pennies they are  a like a little known kind of indie folk pop   Duo I think they're out of Iowa they're so  good though they just their music is among   the happiest known to mankind if you could use a  little more uh you know happiness in your life and   who couldn't right check out the well pennies  they are they are awesome gorgeous music man I   am intrigued by the interaction of my little  my little light and like the way it looks in   person versus the way it looks on camera it's  it's kind of a it's kind of a greenish yellow   when I look at it with my eyeballs and it's  kind of like a yellow orange I don't know the   paint the coloring of the light all just kind  of messes with it oh also in case you hadn't   seen you guys like Brandon Sanderson right  you know he's one of my favorite authors he   just released um his uh Kickstarter for uh the  volume two of The Stormlight Archive right um   my favorite of the books uh Words of Radiance  uh the leatherbound Kickstarter for it which I   backed and is going to be so awesome this is the  first um this is the first book or at least volume   two of the first book check out delanor oh he's  so awesome that's that's same same guy yeah the   art the extra art that they have in here is just  so phenomenal um ooh look at Shalon and yasna my   crush anyway just lots of like extra art in the  in the book itself too um oh look at one of the   uh one of the singers yeah it's kind of a gold  embossed anyways beautiful and I'm sure that   volume two that Words of Radiance is going to  be just as incredible so yeah if you're a fan   highly recommend uh backing backing that oh not on  Kickstarter right it's on backer kit interesting   so hard not to focus on shepher because she is  so awesome I kind of have to sco scooted up a   little bit and the hair today just does not want  to stay out of the face all right um yeah yeah yeah and maybe we should have skipped those Druid  levels after all but okay doors so many doors we   don't want to use it again first up we get wild  shape all Druids get get wild shape letting

Channel: d4: D&D Deep Dive

Views: 55,157

Keywords: D&D, dnd, dungeons & dragons, Echo knight, fighter, OP, overpowered, attack, nova, burst, damage, dpr, dps, min max, optimize, tips, tricks, guide, how to, character, build, creation, gloomstalker, ranger, highest number of attacks, most attacks

Id: -6FF7OUoOLs

Length: 52min 59sec (3179 seconds)

Published: Tue Mar 26 2024