The Shi IDs: Conditionals and Payoff

conditionals whether you recognize it or not you play with them all the time in limbus company For Better or For Worse since this is such an integral part of the game it's frankly surprising that I escue that one limus guy that gets his tutorial sent to every poor soul who doesn't know what project Moon limus company is but has a friend who really likes it haven't talked about conditionals in depth it also just so happens that the three she IDs and yes there were only three of them demonstrate the dynamic between conditionals and payoff extremely well so in what is frankly an embarrassingly thinly veiled attempt to get project moon to give us some more sh IDs during the godamn Poise season I'll be talking about Shon ishmail and Heathcliff with a particular focus on their individual payoffs for their relatively unique conditional and how that affects their viability as IDs but first of all what do I mean by a conditional most of you probably already know what this means in the context of limbus and I use the term a lot but for those who don't know a conditional is basically what is required to activate an effect of a skill the most common conditional is on hit which requires you to hit the target for your effect to activate in this case getting Poise however since that is so common it's hardly ever considered a conditional since you really should be hitting your opponents most times the conditional we care about here is the she Association special the OSHA violation or in lib's terms being below 50% HP conditionals are so diverse that we can pretty much get an idea of what is a hard condition and an easy Edition and while I could list examples all the way down all you need to know is that being below 50% HP falls on the more annoying side of conditionals in regular story content getting below 50% HP from Full HP will take at least a few turns in human fights especially in which you are sacrificing damage in favor of being hit and due to the C IDs having two stagger bars quite high up you are getting staggered very early on leading to more downtime and the everpresent danger of pulling a five surgery and just straight up dying now while that sounds bad and frankly it kind of is the below 50% HP conditional becomes a lot better when we considered dungeon content or Railway content where you can transfer your health over and this is the content I will mostly be referring to while I talk in this video but as a blanket statement the payoff for 50% HP conditionals in story content is not worth it with very few notable exceptions but now that the stage is set and you understand what a conditional is let's look at these three IDs and assume they have have none of their conditions active then compare them with their stronger yet far less healthy versions shei Heathcliff is up first and is certainly the weakest of the trio which while canonically accurate is still upsetting nonetheless because Heathcliff in general is as based as a British person could possibly be I mean look at this guy he's definitely subscribed to escu just like you are right sadly despite having undeniably great taste in limus YouTubers his skill one and two are painfully below average damage and clashing wise both being a single coin with lower than average rules when I say that I mostly refer to the skill 2 which is below the single coin average of 16 but the skill one rolling a 10 base really should have been made illegal across the board with upti four looking on the bright side of things the skill three is where Heathcliff shows his one upside when above 50% health and that is having pretty good damage on this skill three a 17 rolling two coin scill does not sound too impressive until you consider it is always dealing plus 50% more damage assuming you were not literally on the boundary of death in which case this uh straight up kills you in a pretty funny fashion but plus 50% more damage on both coins makes its raw damage go from an unimpressive 28 to 42 raw damage now this is still nothing spectacular but it is certainly good still though the skill one and two being single coin skills with below average clashing is definitely what holds him back the most and makes him the worst of the three but shmell is really not too far behind since she is practically about as middling of a two star ID as one could really get when not below 50% Health a two coin skill one rolling 11 a two coin skill two rolling a 13 and a two coin skill three rolling an 18 with only the skill three being slightly above curve she does not even have anything too notable currently about her on hit effects so she really is just average however being average still puts her above Heathcliff who only has the advantage in skill three damage and skill two Clash but his damage is still behind she ishs on the whole so very fittingly the director of X Section 5 Don kote is at the top though her skill one is a one coin it at least rolls at 11 and her skill two is very solid a two coin skill two rolling a 16 unconditionally on a two star ID is very notable due to it being completely unique and puts her clashing in line with the single coin skill twos with the same role but with far more damage the funny over breath skill is similarly above average in its power with most single coin skill 3es for two star IDs hovering around the 19 to 22 range but Dawn clears that with a 25 roll this means that shon's clashing is far above average with damage that falls around the middle of the pack but it is still enough to make her the best sh ID with no conditions active but while this Baseline is important to establish the shs are mostly only talked about assuming they are below 50% HP except Dawn and there's a good reason for that as I mentioned before 50% HP is in Annoying condition to maintain even in content like Railway and dungeons since you have to not use healing ego or use it sparingly since a lot of healing ego Target the lowest HP allies which will more often than not be your she IDs unless you made a substantial error so the payoff needs to justify the conditional and in Don's case her payoff is by far the worst of the shei IDS her only benefit from being below 50% HP is four more haste next turn turn after using her skill two outside of just making her able to have her zoomi times this guarantees you the plus five skill power on over breathe which brings it to a total of 30 power which is good but absolutely not worth the effort required to get her below 50% HP since you are basically sacrificing half your health and the usage of healing ego for a 20% increase to your skill three which is 1 16th of your entire kit now the good thing is again this means shedon is a better ID overall than Heath cliff or ishmail since the payoff for her conditional is just not worth it meaning you can play her completely normally and not miss out on much at all but as a sh that is assumably meant to interact with the low HP mechanic da certainly deserved more of a benefit from being low on health but on the other hand we have heathcliffe who has conditions present on every single one of his skills whether those be poison conditions or below 50% HP ones and hboy is he reliant on these to be good or really even particularly usable for the skill one and two they gain the same benefit of plus two skill power this means instead of rolling a 10 and a 15 he would roll a 12 and a 17 which makes his clashing go from below average to slightly above average and while I really do mean slightly it is a marked improvement but the main thing is this skill three where there is lots to talk about firstly at 10 plus Poise count this gets the same plus two skill power now while this is nice and would help supplement even more damage to this skill let's think back where exactly does Heathcliff gain Poise count from ah three Poise count on the skill one means that Heathcliff will get this after about um never amount of turns have passed since he would have to cycle all of his skills multiple times to get this condition on his own and would be critting and losing po count every turn so this is a good example of a conditional that practically does not exist in regular play getting back on track the second line of text reads at l less than 50% HP attack weight plus one now this is what brought she Heathcliff into the Limelight for a time after upti 4's release plus one attack weight would mean double damage on a skill that already deals a respectable amount of damage remember that 42 raw damage from before we can now comfortably call that 84 raw damage which is very strong and I don't want to understate that however this conditional increase comes with conditions plus one attack weight sounds good and is good for fights where you are getting value out of it but let's assume sheff is fighting an abnormality with his team plus one attack weight could hit another part of the abnormality yes but 8 to n out of 10 times you are only ever attacking one part of an abnormality meaning that if one part is broken and fatal the other one will likely take only normal damage or even worse slightly lowering the effectiveness of this plus1 attack weight this does apply to all fights but it is most obvious in abnormalities because you really do only ever stagger one target there obviously more damage is more damage so I really shouldn't complain but it is a bit of a gripe I have with attack weight increases in the game as a whole especially two attack weight skills like what she Heathcliff has with his condition active it's not crazy to say she hecliff is better than sh Dawn I would actually generally agree however she Heathcliff needs that condition to be active and to have it be able to actually get value which which is certainly not the case every time no less he has a similar problem to Shon the main benefits are with that skill three of which you only have one of in your skill deck meaning you only find real good value one time out of every six skills now the increase to clashing and damage on the skill 1 and two should not be ignored but it's pretty fair to say the majority of the value is found right here again don't get me wrong this value is Big especially if you're running in Mirror Dungeons and especially especially if you get him with a skill replacement it's absolutely worth it to bring him to low HP since miror dungeons heavily favor attack weight since enemies usually only start with one skill slot which makes it easier to hit two of them however I don't think I would recommend she he Cliffs conditional for something like Railway or general boss fights which is a real shame since if we just expand this concept out a little bit more and gave his skill to plus one attack weight as well we have an ID who while still not insanely strong certainly could hold his own niche in attacking multiple enemies at once even if the skill to is not that good on its own literal double damage would help a ton and an ID with two skills with two attack weight would be really cool and justify that absolutely massive sword he lugs around now while I would not call heathcliff's condition disappointing it does pale in comparison to what I think is the most welldone and balanced conditional in the game with she ishmail her kit comes together completely when she is below 50% HP for various reasons but we should start with the biggest one by far and that is flashing strike which yes is the same name as Heathcliff Skill 3 the she aren't very creative when it comes to names but this skill reuses both its coins once again using raw damage we find that this increase is actually more than double due to how limbus coin system works without the condition active this deals 22 raw damage and with it a frankly ridiculous increase to 60 raw damage a 38 damage increase to put into perspective just how good this is let's compare the two flashing strikes and mark the differences first of all Shi isil's flashing strike clashes higher yes that's right the reused coins are rolled in a clash as well meaning we are clashing at a 21 which is easily the best clashing skill too a two star can have heathcliff's maximum is 19 by comparison but realistically that will never go above 7 17 in terms of raw damage Heath Cliff does win out when we account for the 50% damage conditional but the most key difference is that heathcliff's flashing strike is a skill three for some reason project Moon thought it was a good idea to make shish Mill have a four coin 21 rolling skill two meaning you can feel the massive value of being at low HP 33% of the time however there is still so much more like the fact that all the damage is focused on a single Target meaning there's no need to worry about making use out of some attack weight or like how this skill gives four Poise potency and eight Poise count in combination with she is most passive Poise count is relevant for both her skill three and counter making them deal more critical damage so having such easy access to eight count is a relief considering how many Poise IDs usually struggle for count the last few things to tie Shish nicely together is her skill one giving even more Poise potency meaning she can maintain Poise count relatively well and her potency gain means she will be critting reliably enough to make the otherwise lackluster Poise damage bonus of 20% flat actually feel like it matters and her skill three is a panic button when getting a little too close to dying which is a really nice safety net that the other two severely lack needless to say Shish Mill practically becomes a whole new ID when below 50% HP and is a perfect demonstration on how to make a condition like that worth it while not making her overpowered due to the difficulty of maintaining the condition still remaining and ever since launch we have sadly still not seen an ID that takes a difficult conditional to quite this level of drastic change which is kind of a real shame and those are the three sh IDs who I really do think demonstrate very nicely and concisely the three different kinds of payoff there are more but at least these three are the main ones dawn has a negligible payoff but her Base Kit is solid enough to not need it so playing interc conditional is just never worth it heathcliff's Base Kit kind of sucks ass but his payoff is good and he absolutely wants it to be good but the difficulty of the condition sometimes holds him back since his main payoff in my opinion at least is just not as reliable so he's sometimes worth playing into and then shei isil is average in her base kit and relies hard on her payoff but it's well worth investing some turns into so she is almost always worth it while conditionals and payoff are really simple Concepts they are something a lot of people take for granted and tend not to think too hard about and so I want to scratch another one of those core limus mechanics off of my to-do list I also wanted to make this video just to praise she ishill for still having a really good balance between the two despite what is generally an innate setback of being a launch ID and especially since she's the only ID in the game that literally everyone has meaning she is always an option for new players and veteran players alike due to her uniquely strong skill too however let's be real if we're talking about the she IDs there's another she ID who is at least worth mentioning and that is Harpoon or Heathcliff now I'm not going to fully cover this ID since I do want to make a video on him one day but I figure I should mention these similarities while unlike the actual sh IDs he has no one set cut off where he gets value his damage just straight up increases for every percentage of Health he's missing he also borrows from the middle IDs a little bit since he does actively want to be hit or have others be hit to either activate his counter or more importantly get those sweet offense and defense level Buffs he does mention HP percentages in his skill three specific specifically inflicting more bleed when it lower and lower HP thresholds so this combination of more damage more bleed and more offense/defense level up alongside an already very solid Base Kit makes harpooner Heath Cliff's conditional value mixed he kind of has a trait taken from each of the Shiites like Shon his Base Kit is already good on its own but like Shi isil there's a lot of potential that can be had when you invest time into bringing his health low and like she Heathcliff he's a Heathcliff I so while I still think Shish Mill is the best conditional in the game for how much it changes the ID once the condition is filled harpon Heathcliff allows flexibility in his play Style by having his Base Kit be so strong while still highly incentivizing his conditional with just a ton of damage which is also a very valid design philosophy that I also enjoy and it makes me very excited for the next proper she Association ID but talking so much about this below 50% HP condition did make me wonder why why did the Shi even have this now I know their whole thing in Runa was being exhausted and it is part of their fighting style at least as far as I'm aware to some extent but above all the Shi are assassins and I really hope we see more shes in the future that forgo the ruin a stereotype and instead give us cool benefits when attacking enemies first in a turn or specifically boosting unopposed attacks there's a lot of design directions shadis can take and it is a shame that despite literally getting name dropped in Kento 4 we saw no sign of more she units hell they don't have a three star and also as much as people may seem to want a passive or an ID that starts she identities at 50% Health by default I think it would take away this trade-off dynamic in some forms of content and make sh isil just the best or at least easily one of the best two star IDs with no competition at all so if they do keep this gimmick I hope they keep this gimmick as it is and on the whole I hope we continue to see more impactful conditionals in the game and especially ones more along the lines of she ish that's all for me as always thank you for watching this V what rooll for outro DC of 13 I mean okay huh all the four

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Length: 17min 47sec (1067 seconds)

Published: Thu Jan 11 2024