The Sad State of Indology Today | Francois Gautier

my name is Francois Gucci I have the privilege to live in your country for long time I see privilege because many Indians feel that you know they want to go abroad they want to emigrate but I am a I'm a guy who came here and is happy to be here and grateful to be here in this country because there are so many great things in your country regardless of you know what's your religion from which part of India come from this is a great country with a great past and a great future whatever the problems India is facing today now I'm not an in dollar gist really I'm a journalist and a writer and even that by accident I came to India very young I wanted to go around the world and there was a caravan of cars driving from Paris to Pondicherry you all know Pondicherry so I thought okay this is a good way to start my journey around the world and become a man and you know experience the world and so I took this caravan not intending to stay in yeah knowing nothing about India nothing about in dollar G not interested at all and then I came to Delhi you know it takes in those days you had to cross many countries from from France to Germany to Austria Greece Turkey Iran Afghanistan Pakistan and then we came to Delhi and in Delhi I spent a night in the urban or ashram in India some of you might know this no it's a big college those days it was a small house and and I felt that there was a knowledge in this country but there was something very special in this country which people call India so my interest in India started there then I became a journalist had done some journalism before leaving France I became a journalist and the photographer and I and I covered Kashmir know in the 90s you know Kashmir was at its worst there was a lot of curfew and a lot of killings and I want you know from the Pakistan sign for Indian side I spent time with the Indian army spend time with the militants I saw the exotics of the Kashmiri Pandits who became refugees in their own country and I started studying Indian history no this is a time where I thought oh this is a you know complicated country and I started studying in unis tree and of course if you study Kashmir stone in history then you come upon Aurangzeb now Aurangzeb is a much hated or much loved figure of Indian history but very central because probably he was the most powerful man in the world he had the most powerful army in your in spite of many invasions you know was still the richest country in the world you know where there are practically no beggars so I started studying Aurangzeb and then from Aurangzeb of course I'm a French so French our lovers of Napoleon you all know but Napoleon Napoleon is the Shivaji Maharaj of our country you know but he's very respected and very well known in India you know I mean if you're a kid you study Napoleon I was born near his museum and that those of you who know Paris there's a Museum of the Napoleon in the a village in the central Paris I was born next to that so so you know I I knew about Napoleon and when I came upon shivaji maharaj i realized that this man with a few hundred people in the central of india not not many means you know he stood against the most powerful man in the world at that time mr. Aurangzeb and when she when she was born Aurangzeb or did the Mughal Empire was still at its peak when she was it died at the age of 52 the Mughal Empire started to crumble and never recovered you know from from the time of Shivaji's deaths you know the Mughal Empire started to crumble and never recovered neither its glory no its power so you know that was very interesting and I thought oh look at this guy Shivaji he was a great administrator he was a very secular man you know contrary to what what he said in you in you in history books you know he never harmed the women the wives and the daughters of his enemies he respected you know Sufi temples or Muslim mosque you know you it was a anchor up man he lived very simply you know whatever he got he had ministered he created the first Navy in India extraordinary man you know and an a man of vision you know a man of spirituality great spirituality though he was a profound Hindu you know he had respect for every religion and yet in my country France Napoleon I've got such a good place you know such an important place you know every year there are books and you know films and you know treaties about him you know some of his law that still use in France today but Shiva she doesn't have the same rank here in your country in India I know in some books is described as a plunderer of course because he planted Surat you know but he needed the money for for his army you know and some books you know he's got three four lines you know he is the guy who's know he's the pan National Indian so that's one one of my first surprises either you know student of in dalla G was you know that some of your heroes and he ruins you know neither have place in your own history books nor in the Foreign history books now the second disc River of course you know in dollar G max Miller if the first indologist you know of renown and it is true that you know though we didn't speak Sanskrit he was a great knowledge you know he was very knowledgeable about India but the Vedas you know so he's the first indologist know and then I discovered also one gentleman called multi-man wheeler your multimode wheeler you know about Mortimer wheeler he's the father of Indian ecology and he's also an ontology you know he's a father also the Aryan invasion theory now you all know about the alien invasion theory according to that theory which today is defined by the way in almost most historians including Romila Thapar and all you know the famous indian historians have taken the distance from it I've said oh it may not have happened but according to the theory which is still the foundation of ontology and all your history books no white skinned people came from the West some people say from Russia from the Ural Mountains they came to India they conquered India in a very bloody manner and they posed upon the Dravidians and the tribals who were living in the north the caste system the Hindu religion and so the people from the north and the tribals slowly retreated no back to the south you know and they said today that the original inhabitants of India the tribals and the Dravidians many you know many Yogi's and seers like Swami Vivekananda or Sri Aurobindo have said time and again that it is not possible know that it never happened now it is proved scientifically the reason exhibition actually in Pune where we know from the scientific point of view it is shown that this alien invasion never happened and actually it is Indian we want to know westwards you know to us Iran where you know the the hottest religion is an influence from India and even towards the Greece there are lot of influence you know of the Vedanta and Vedic civilization in Greece you know and there have been some French authors who had done entire books about that and even further you know to the to Europe where the Celtic you know the Celtic culture has some Valentine Vedic influence so I came upon this Western earth you know on the beginning of in dollar G and I realized that there are two problems with ancient in dollar gene or the first intelligent one is that western indologists because in dollar G today is in the hands of Westerners whether it was you know max Miller whether is today you know mr. Whitson America or mr. Jaffer law in France or mr. person in Norway they have always had a superiority in very security complex know that although I am fascinated you know by sense by the complexity of sanskrit by the knowledge that is there in the vedas you can't miss it you know if you read the Vedas or read the bhagavad-gita there is a knowledge to know there is a knowledge which is eternal which is today is even relevant so these people were fascinated by that at the same time they had unconscious feeling probably that okay my civilization the judeo-christian civilization is superior we we need we still need to teach Indians you know what are the true values of democracy of literacy and it is still true today it is still true today that minerology still in the hands of Westerners who most of the time lives in their countries now if you take my country the the most famous indologist is called Christopher follow I don't know how many of you know about him he comes to India maybe two months a year they live in their home countries you know it is impossible to study India if you do not live in India I have lived India for nearly 50 years I have crew you know I have crisscrossed in yarn or from Arunachal Pradesh nor do the Tibetan border to know Kanyakumari and I can't claim that I know India fully yet it's a very complex country know from every state there are different customs different languages you know different food customs you know the very complex country you cannot study India in depth and lives unless you live in this country the second problem is what is called philology I don't know how many of you know philology philology means that you study something but you keep your distance this is the basis of it you know western indologists umm thing which may be below my dignity or maybe foreign to me so I keep a distance no this is fine you know if you study the edge civilization like Egypt you know as it was once a great civilization or Greece you know Greece wants a great civilization this is fine but studying here which is the living civilization you know because this knowledge you know which existed in the Vedas war my what happens when I die what is karma what is Dharma what is an avatar is still alive today in spite of so many invasions so much trauma that happened to this constituent community every community has suffered from invasion and colonization this knowledge is still alive so you cannot study this knowledge sitting on your ass in Paris on in New York it is not possible it is not possible now if you you know if you want to study Sanskrit if you really want to study Sanskrit not only the language but what is behind Sanskrit you need to go to temples you need to mix up with Brahmins you need to go in your in places where Sanskrit is spoken you need to merge in identify yourself you cannot keep a distance if you want to study temples because there are many westerners will study temples or hinduism you need to merge you know you would need to go to Banaras you need to you know go to temples you need to participate in puja you know you cannot study temples unless you know what is the puja you get the feeling of a puja unless you go to all the great ancient temples whether its mean actually whether its Kedar not you know and you get a feeling of you know it's a temple it is a very special place like a church in in the West you know you enter very ancient churches and you get an atmosphere or get an experience in the same way you cannot start the temples of India unless you spend your studying temples now the first problem of modern philology is that keeping a distance the second problem is the negativity of the subjects now there's one thing that indologist in the West are obsessed with I give you one guess caste you know if you do research when I started writing books on in Yunus tree Anand ology if you do a search in google french french google on cats you fat 1.2 million it's one to one point to millions of people who have done studies on cars written articles written books written entire disease of on cast now I know that cast is still an important phenomena India but India since 1947 I've been trying to go beyond cast isn't it true you know every government whether it's Congress of bgp I've got that aspiration know that we elevate the lower caste and we start to think beyond costume and yet there is an obsession which is still that today you know every time I read an article in France on India and this is very rare you know there's another problem within dollar G that India doesn't interest much the West unless there are big problems big catastrophe or huge elections you know then you you hear about India in the US or in France otherwise you don't hear about India but when it comes to cast while there are you know articles and articles on you know how there are are the Brahmins you know you know the the devils of this country the Brahmins have been demonized you know so much in the West you know and by indologist and yet if you look at Brahmins today an idea to study on Brahmins you know there are minority in places like Tamil Nadu they've been chased by the Dravidian movements they emigrated all over the world no you find them in New York from them in Paris you find them in Delhi you know so many Brahmins in Delhi like mr. Murray Shankara I will speak good French by the way speak good French II was your the Consul in Belgium for a long time so obsession about caste you know that that's the second problem now in France for instance the foremost I'm not saying they're not academic you know most indologist are very academic you know they can speak scientifically about caste for you know page after page you know hour after hour they are knowledgeable about India but they don't have the right opinion upon idea in my country mr. Jeffrey Lurie the foremost indologist you cannot escape him because every time there is an election every time there is some catastrophe at a time there's something to say about he's there in the newspapers on the TVs everywhere no they have a they have a whole they have a monopoly on what is said about India in France or in the US or in Norway anywhere in the world and they keep that monopoly so mr. Jeffrey lo I spend an entire lifetime demonizing Hindus and caste and you know clashes between Hindus and Muslims we know that there are clashes you know we know that you know but I have read in India so long in yeah the safe country you know I have lived so many years I have reported on India in the most unlikely place now everybody talks about IAP I've been to about two-three times I've been to the Tibetan border I've been to Kashmir so many times I have never been asked asked about my passport you know if you're a foreigner in Paris no it's likely that sooner or later you know especially if you're not dressed properly someone will ask about your passport I have never been mugged in India you know I've been in the Muslim Cespedes never been back in India India is safe place you know same thing is true about women you know indologists speak about the you know the sad condition of women India whether it is sati which is a very very very rare phenomenon or since independence whether it's you know dowry whether it's you know bright burning whether it's rape you know of course there have been horrible rapes which have been meditite a lot you know but if you look at statistics you know India is far behind in terms of rapes you know countries like us and Sweden I think Sweden is the place in the world where there are most rapes you know I was talking the other day about benazir bhutto because I interviewed bananas there were two to three times you know she was in the country where you know men are in the front you know and yet what every time I interviewed her she was sitting down and all the men were bowing down you know standing you know to her that is a respect for women in India you know I'm married to an Indian so I could speak you know a little bit with experience you know you know there is a you know the first the first prime minister in the world was Indira Gandhi she ruled India for nearly 20 years you know and you know benazir bhutto the prime minister and in Bangladesh they had you know prime minister you know since last 20 years you know so there's a bit of contradiction and Endora geez never speak about the positive aspects the positive aspects of India because of course they like us problems of course there are rapes auch of their huge problems in this country I love in general but I'm not blind to the problems of corruption you know of ecology you know but it's also such an ancient country there is so much knowledge you know this knowledge is gone from the world and I keep saying that in all my talks that I am proud to be in India I know Indians need to be proud of themselves of the culture of the knowledge you know without being blind to their faults now because time is going to run out soon what is needed is that Indians Tech back in dollar G from the Westerners I'm a westerner I'm brought up a Catholic my father was a staunch Catholic Michael was a parish priest in Paris no in momart I don't know how many of you know per se with the parish priest of momart you know but I have to say that Indians are not proud enough to be Indians and this is why in dollar G is not in your hands so you there [Applause] you live in India no you are the one one nearest to this knowledge about Indians you are the one who can talk best you know about the good and the bad the pros and the cons you know what is the essence of in dalla ji so you need to take it back from Westerners but for this UT you need two things one is you need to rewrite your own history because Indian history has been written by the Britishers by maximal of no and it's been post dated you know we know now if you study the latest discoveries you will see that Indian history is much older than it is said you know the Vedas are much older than 1500 before Christ you know they were civilization India at least ten thousand at all so you need to rewrite Indian history and get rid of the Aryan invasion theory which has divided India like anything we know between Brahmins and Dalits between you know Hindi speaking and Tamil speaking people became white and darker people know what your all Indians you know all of your engines I keep shuttling between Delhi and Pondicherry because and Bangalore and Pune you know you know this is India and the second thing is you need to change education because you're making clones of your children you only teaching them you know Western knowledge whether it's mathematics was the history you know and you're making clones out of them they have no roots you know other Frenchman I was taught to be proud to be French my poetry my heroes you know Napoleon you know but it's not so in India no Kalidasa was probably one of the best poets ever in the world you know even translated from the sanskrit know can it says voices shine like anything he's not in indian school you know you philosophers the buddhist philosophy which was in also advanced for its time now Todd Vedic mathematics so advanced wisdom not taught Sri Aurobindo nor was that such a profound philosopher and revolutionary not touch so no wonder that in the West people know so little about in you have so many prejudices because in your own schools you know in your books you do not answer sighs the greatness of your civilization so this is the thing you know this would be my conclusion is that you need to take back and ology from Westerners okay they can't be Westerners were friendly work but you need to take back ontology from them and for that you need to rewrite your own history books and you need to change your education I know it's a big program thank you very much if you have any questions some more happy to answer them I have six minutes okay I have six minutes for question thank you I have a question which is you told us how India does history I'd like to know how other countries do history let me first proce the problem for you the problem is who's India are we talking about there is a colonists India there's a Dalit India there's a Muslim India there's a Brahminical India everything is spoke so much so far seems to be from a Brahminical India which is mainstream who's India are we talking about the thing with history is that we're talking about the past India is an ongoing culture so these dynamics are there today we are asking the question of who gets power there is an there's a few asking a question or making a statement the I'm contextualizing the question and the second thing is that when you said that in France you learn about your history isn't there an attempt to I don't know history is the Selective writing so what history do we teach our children oh so I think you know question is completely you know out of order because first time under the bra mean I'm a Frenchman I'm a born Frenchman educated Catholic so I cannot be accused of a bias know most people repeat what their parents say what the teacher says I'm not repeating whether I repeat what I have experienced rightly or wrong secondly you know colonization has divided India it's divided in India in a bit you know in Kerala I've studied Christians in Kara you know before the prophets came no Christians in Kerala were integrated you know they remain Christians you know but they were integrated with the other committees around them you know Muslims were integrated if you look at the AG economist names today the ahmadiyya muslim they much more integrated there are the muslims you know so it is the British and the colonizers and we have divided India and unfortunately I didn't independence mr. Nehru you know adapted everything from the British you know the education system the judicial system the democratic system it's a catastrophe no I mean your question is a catastrophe yeah since you you said that you've been to Pondicherry many times here yeah come on I would like to ask you what do you think of the kind of work that is being done in the indulge a department of the answer type francais to Pondicherry wonderful wonderful job because they you know they have they have scholars there yeah so in your talk today what do you think they can do to promote what you would like in terms of spreading in dalla ji by Indians because as you know the work is done I mean it's funded by the French government yes that's one of the very few yeah you're right yeah of the workers are French absolutely what pundits absolutely so what is the kind of thing interest so talk in the context of your today so that's it you know in the origins should come in to India and work with Indians you know of equal status not you know not scribes and I think the French Institute has done that but they one of the review I don't know if you know more but they're one of the very few have done that yeah sir post modernists and new orient lists are the greatest obstructionist for in dalla ji to progress in the right direction right because they completely demystify national and cultural integration and they want the absolute truth to be considered as an arrogant pretense how would we like to how would you like to address this issue and isn't this the greatest challenge for ontology to progress in the right kind of direction yeah I don't but you're the answer is in your question I think we need to ask Madame said you know you need to work in the ologies need to work you know in India you know with scholars of India you know and slowly you know the the the don't know the domination will go from the west to India and so this is a very good question okay we started three minutes late hello miss miss we started three minutes later three minutes four minutes more yeah so I had a question here here so you've obviously done a lot of work trying to get in dollar G in a better state so and you found a lot of challenges have been following you on Twitter and your work so when you're telling us to kind of go about and be proud of our country and change the narrative what are some of the suggestions you can give us about like obviously you face challenges so if you can talk about that and what you think we will face see if you think women you know that I'm any hero in C know in India you know before that time in the you know like janta we have Jandek in France but in a year you have you know hundreds of them no chinami and idea by often door on you know and of course the rani of Jhansi there is so many great you know indian women so so they should be known to children and then you heroes you know I started the small Museum in Pune you know with because I thought that there's something that lasts longer than my books so there is a gentleman called Madonna Pratap you know is the only Rajput withstood to the Mughals all the other Rajput SATA gave the daughters in marriage or submitted Madonna Pratap like Shivaji Maharaj an or live simply never lived in the palace it was a very just guy he's the only guy who actually stood to the mockers and he he fought Akbar he fought Akbar and held his ground in a delicate so so but he's not taught you know outside of the North Delhi and Rajasthan is not known why he's a great hero I mean my country friends would be honored so you need you need your children to you know to know their heroes without being blind to the problem that India faced so you have to change the entire education specially in history books and then you'll produce children who feel oh I am proud to be Indian because I see Indians Hindus Hindu in u.s. for instance and in the university there are great number of Indian students you know the only thing they want to do is merge in the American you know system and you know become Americans and more American than the Americans they do not project any Indian Asst it's important if you're an Indian whether you're Muslim or Hindu or Christian know that you projects on some unionists you know that you're a different you're different person so if you do project the internet even if the US or UK or Canada I know something is shining and you giving out something while taking you know you might take from the US but you're giving back something instead these people just merge in the US and Indians become more you know American than the Americans as the terrible hello about organizations like the Infinity foundation the work of Rajiv Malhotra Sanjeev Sharma who are trying to rewrite the history of in dollar G rejected from what are you okay projected from an Indians perspective how much worth of it is being sought Raji Martha the pioneer no unfortunately you know there are not so many defender of you know Indian s you know but he's a pioneer and you know he gave a lot you know I think he's spent his entire fortune you know on this and now he's little tired and you know so it's one of the few pioneers but of course you know I met him a few times and he interviewed me and we are grateful to him but this not enough of these people there should be more Indians who rise up and say okay I know the forth of my country but I'm proud to be Indian you know and I I want to work to change this country because India is at a crossroad now needs to be changed you know it's you know people want to divide India between Muslims and Hindus but you know here if you give a feeling of pride to everybody you know what whichever your religion is you know it's going to solve the problem to a great extent but instead you know you have people who want to divide India more between you know Dravidians and Aryans and you know and Dalits and you know Brahmins man I'm so tired of it so when this western indologists turned view of ontology where is this getting funded from yeah you see in France it's interesting because the French government is funding Cristal Jafra law there is a there is like Nehru University JNU in France there is a Institute without research on all kind of subjects you know and the in dalla G department you know headed by a fellow he's funded by the French government so actually it's like the French government is biting its own tail you know because as a result of this negative image that India gets in France you know French businessman are not so interested to invest in India because I think all the caste problem phenomenalism problem you know women getting killed know it's a dangerous country let me go to China instead China is you know in terms of Human Rights is hundred times worse in India but the entire West has gone to China and not come to India so as a lover of India I am telling the French you know come to India you know there are problems but this country's Democratic there's a legal system you know you can do business there in the long term you know it is much more safe than in China because in China who knows what's going to happen with the communist government you know is removed and by some you know so so enjoy the great country my if I have to conclude my talk I need to conclude it's great to be engine or whatever the problem great opinion and in dollar G needs so much with so much to be done today there is so much to be done in terms of research of the past of changing the history books so it's a great great endeavor and if you're young and if you want to do something useful go into it ontology thank you very much

Channel: Bangalore Literature Festival

Views: 8,836

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Keywords: blf2018, bangaloreliteraturefestival, blrlitfest2018, Francois Gautier, The Sad State of Indology Today

Id: Nu1JzhnjZdo

Length: 32min 50sec (1970 seconds)

Published: Thu Nov 15 2018