CLIFF REDEKER: Welcome to
another Talks at Google event. I am Cliff. The man of the hour we have
here is Brian Kelly, the CEO and Founder of thepointsguy.com. Welcome to Google. BRIAN KELLY: Thanks
for having me. CLIFF REDEKER: Thank you. [APPLAUSE] All right. So we have a lot of travel
fans in the audience. We're also streaming it
live to Google offices worldwide and the folks
at home at YouTube. And so had a few questions
to go through right now, and then we'll have time for
some open audience Q&A as well. So if there's any burning
questions about your points or if you have a wallet full of
credit cards you need audited, just let us know. We'll make that happen. BRIAN KELLY: I actually tried
to do a wallet audit at lunch today. So if you want to show
me your assortment, I can whip you into shape. CLIFF REDEKER: We
can make that happen. And, of course, Googlers are
really passionate about travel. We have that small thing
called Google Flights search, the ITA Matrix,
the hotel bookings. So we're really
passionate about that. And that, in fact, leads me
to my first question, which is really about technology. And so it seems that
a lot of this game, a lot of the frequent
flyer mile program is built on this almost
Cold War race of, who has the most information,
and whose computer system is 30 years old to load mistake
fares, and stuff like that? Like, how do you view
the role of technology in the travel industry,
and also in miles? BRIAN KELLY: Well, I think in
general in the travel industry, we're still way behind. I think one of the top
questions I always get asked is, I have these
amount of miles. Where can I go? And there still really
is no perfect system that will actually correspond
with airline award inventory. You know, the airlines are
very protective of that data with sites like AwardWallet
for tracking your miles. Some airlines even
cut off access. So we're actually pretty far
behind, I think, in general. But that's where
opportunity lies. As you mentioned, mistake fares. Deals spread like wildfire. And we have seen in 2016 more
crazy deals. $200 to Auckland. And you know, last year we
had the $185 to Abu Dhabi. So it's still a good time
to be in this sphere. CLIFF REDEKER: Yeah. Do you see a push on the
credit card companies, the airlines to try
to catch up on it? Or is it just-- BRIAN KELLY: Yeah, I mean,
it's a cat-and-mouse game. You know, Chase
recently instituted, if you've had five cards
within the last two years, you can get some
of their products. And they're expanding
that, we've seen recently. You know, the game
definitely changes, but it's by far from over. You have to maybe work
a little bit harder. But for those who
put time and effort into learning the
ways of how to search for availability that others
can't see, there's opportunity. CLIFF REDEKER: Yeah, exactly. It's almost an arbitrage. And for a lot of folks just
starting out and keeping track of their miles
and their points, they don't really
necessarily want to spend too much effort doing
it, don't want to go nuts. What can you tell them
about how to get started? And what are they
missing out by not putting their
frequent flyer number in on those
twice-a-year bookings? BRIAN KELLY: Yeah, I mean, it's
not even-- a lot of people say, oh, I don't travel that much, so
I'm not going to get into this. But it's not even about travel. More miles will be minted
this year from non-travel. So credit cards and
partner activity than from actually flying. And especially as airlines now
go into revenue-- next week whenever you fly
American Airlines, you'll receive miles
based on how much you paid, not how far you fly,
if you bank to American. You know, there are
still more ways than ever to get miles and points. It's really about getting
the right credit card. It's really frequent
spender programs now. So get the right credit card. The bonuses are as high as ever. So even though airlines are
raising the price of awards, you know, sometimes
overnight, you can get miles and
points all around you for doing everyday things. CLIFF REDEKER: Yeah. And as these programs get more
homogenized, like you said, it's almost like a punch card
per dollar and everything. Is that a sign of the end times? Like, is there still
a unique opportunity? BRIAN KELLY: There's definitely
still unique opportunities. I just got back from-- I went
for three nights to Sydney and New Zealand this weekend. I flew Alaska
Airlines 70,000 miles and $42 Qantas first class. And I was sitting there. I'm like, $42 out of
pocket as I'm laying. And I'm just looking at
everyone going to coach. And I'm like, those people
probably paid 20 times as much as I did, cash out of pocket. So the game is still there now. So the airlines have moved
to revenue based on earning. Now if the airlines ever moved
to revenue-based redemptions like Southwest and JetBlue. You know, American Airlines,
that will take the glory out of the game, so to speak. I'm sure there'll be other
ways to get around it. But right now, I
mean, these airlines still have these wonky charts. Half the time, the airline,
because of bad technology and because they're working
on outdated systems, there's still so many
ways to maximize. The fact that you can
fly San Diego to Istanbul is the same exact amount
of miles as, you know, Boston to Dublin makes no sense. But I don't think
that those changes are going to happen anytime soon. So even if you're
new to the game, there's still plenty
to take advantage of, as you do yourself. CLIFF REDEKER: Well, thank you. Thank you. I try every little bit. I'm not quite up
to TPG territory. But one mile at a
time, as you said. [LAUGH] So I also was curious as well,
like, the other news this year is the sizable decline in price
for fares for premium cabins. And so it's gotten to
the point, you know, there's amazing things
on British Airways and flights to Europe. As you were saying,
flights to New Zealand. Are we landing on sort
of an equilibrium price? Like, the price is
right on these fares. Like, is that a bad
thing when more people are paying versus redemption? Or how do you see that balance? BRIAN KELLY: No. I mean-- well, I think
the first thing is free upgrades are disappearing. And that's indisputable, right? So if you're just
getting into the game now and you want to race
to get elite status, and you're going to expect to
get free upgrades all the time, likely set your expectations--
now with elite status, especially at the very highest
tiers, is still very valuable. So I think it's
actually a good place. In the past, airlines priced
first class and business class so ridiculously
and out of touch. 10 times the price of economy
for, like, a little bit of a recliner and crappy food. So now the airlines
are actually-- I think pricing is becoming
more sane and affordable. And that's great for consumers. But that's also why
I think people should diversify miles and points. It's not just about airfare. So many people are
myopically focused on, let me just get airline miles
for the free-- but hotels and other experiences,
you should really diversify your miles and points. And that's, I think,
one key thing I would like everyone to get away. If you're just getting
into this, don't just, oh, I fly United Airlines. I'm going to get United credit
card and United, United, United. Try to diversify. Get transferable
points programs so that when it comes
time to redeem, you've got lots of options. CLIFF REDEKER: Yeah, that's
what I was going to say. Like, with the big four
transferable points, it seems that the airlines
still have a lot of ways to go to catch up to that. Do you see that continuing? Just keep banking to the
cities, the Chase, the Amex? BRIAN KELLY: Yeah. I mean, so the relationships,
just so people don't-- these are huge profit
centers for airlines. Frequent flyer programs are
arguably the most effective marketing technique
ever created. So American Airlines just signed
on with Citi and Barclaycard to issue their cards. So that means more products. You know, so Citi
and Barclaycard will be competing against each
other for American Airlines credit card business,
which is something we've never seen before. Everyone thought they'd
just go with one partner. So there's tons and tons of
competition on the marketplace. You know, American Express
lost JetBlue to Barclaycard. They lost Costco to Citi. So this actually bodes
well for consumers. So once again, I
think my key point is, even though these
are travel programs, really, it's all
about the credit card. So getting the
right credit cards, getting it on huge bonuses,
and then beyond that, maximizing every single dollar
you spend is the way to win. CLIFF REDEKER: There's even
an app for that on the TPG that will help you. BRIAN KELLY: There is, TPG
To Go on the app store. CLIFF REDEKER: Yes. Android and iOS. BRIAN KELLY: Thanks a lot. CLIFF REDEKER: Yeah. I do what I can. So then also, moving
the conversation again towards the infrequent flyers. Like, are there
three basic things that you'd recommend people
do just starting out? And of course, there's
articles on TV, thepointsguy.com to that end. But anything that people
miss from the get-go? BRIAN KELLY: No. I mean, I think just sign up
for frequent flyer programs. But instead, if you're
flying American Airlines, you don't have to bank
your frequent flyer miles to American Airlines. So if you buy a really
cheap ticket on American, you may want to actually bank to
British Airways, their partner, which actually can
provide amazing value. And once you're redeeming
miles, don't assume, if I've got British
Airways miles, I'm going to redeem
on British Airways. That's often the
worst redemption. So you have to think
counterintuitively. It makes no sense. You think, well, why
would British Airways make better redemptions on partners? Just stop asking yourself
those questions, because logic never works with
airlines and hotels. You just take advantage of it. So think outside the box. You know, like, we have
over 9,000 blog posts. We're actually going through a
major web redesign as we speak. And hopefully this
fall, we're relaunching, and it's going to
be much easier. Right now, it's funny. People I'm like, just go
Google the points guy, and then put your topic
in, and then you'll see all the results. So thank you to the search team
for making it so easy to search our hot mess of a website. I think that was two things. The third is just think
counterintuitively. You all are very-- [MICROPHONE SQUEAK] --smart. CLIFF REDEKER: Yeah. BRIAN KELLY: God? [LAUGH] Think counterintuitively. This is a fun game
that can be won. Yes, it takes a
little bit of time. But when you think
about this hobby, I think it's amazing that
this hobby can actually help you travel more and spend less. And I always sit down, and it's
like doing a crossword puzzle. Like, how can I
get to Abu Dhabi? And it's amazing, once you
build up miles and points, the freedom that it gives you. The fact that right now
I've got so many miles that I can go to
SFO and be anywhere in the world in, like,
16 hours, first class. And that's another thing. Last minute's the best
time to use miles. Airlines and their
pricing models, they'll open up tons and tons
of space, even to Sydney. So if you're flexible
and spontaneous, you can get insane amounts
of value for miles. Even if you don't want
to go to the Maldives, if you ever have a
family emergency, miles are like an
insurance policy. You're on vacation
in Europe, you need to come home last
minute, airlines don't care. Even the bereavement fares
are full fare minus, like, $5, right? So protect yourself with
frequent flyer miles and credit card points. CLIFF REDEKER: Yeah. And of course, the blog has
a very international reach as well. So how do you-- BRIAN KELLY: Well, the
international reach on the Google Map wasn't
as much as we'd like it. So we will be expanding. We're just in the UK. That's our number two market,
and Canada's number three. You know, points are universal. And so yes. So those of you watching
abroad, the US programs are generally more generous
than the foreign frequent flyer programs. They have high fuel surcharges. And I know people always
say, it's no fair in America. The credit cards
are so generous. And so figure out a way to
get a social security number. No. [LAUGHTER] Kidding. CLIFF REDEKER: Or
Brexit, I guess. BRIAN KELLY: Yeah. CLIFF REDEKER: Yeah. Cool. Cool. And then at Google, we do a fair
share of business travel here. Of course, we do have our
video conferences soon, but nothing truly beats
the in-person meetings. And so we're also a
very frugal company. We want to be frugal-- BRIAN KELLY: Google frugal? CLIFF REDEKER: Yeah. BRIAN KELLY: Frugal at Google? CLIFF REDEKER: We
sunsetted that, but the spirit remains the same. You know, frugal, but generous. And so you know,
what sort of advice do you have for
business travelers that want to maintain a sense
of price consciousness, but at the same time,
want to build status? Like, incorporate something that
benefits their personal travel and their business travel? What's the business strategy? BRIAN KELLY: I think
maintaining cost is important for every
cost center, right? As a business owner
myself, I make my employees fly in middle
seats in the back of the plane. Just kidding. I'm actually very nice. I actually used to take
their points from them, but they don't like that. [LAUGHTER] That's really mean. No. I let them--
actually, it's funny. When we go out to lunch,
people will overhear us. I'm like, OK, you win. You get to pay for lunch today. Like, the waitresses are always
like, that's so mean of you. And I'm like, no,
you don't get it. Like, they're getting points
and I'm paying them anyway. CLIFF REDEKER: Yeah. 5x. BRIAN KELLY: So loyalty
can save you money. So sticking with a hotel chain
that might be a little bit extra, but if
you're going to get the free Wi-Fi and the perks
and be comfortable and rested, you know, it may make sense
to pay a little bit more for a flight to build status,
to get the free checked bag. So I would just encourage
cost center managers to see the bigger picture. Because I think the big problem
in America is a lot of times, we go with the very cheapest
flight, and cheap is expensive. So try to think a
little bit higher level. But you know, loyalty,
especially at the top tiers, can really pay off. And let's be honest. Business travel is grueling. It's time away from home. It's exhausting. It's bad for your health. So being able to be comfortable
and stick with a hotel chain, even if it costs
a little bit more, I think benefits the
business in the long run. CLIFF REDEKER: Yeah. And then you hit
the ground running. You're not tired. You can go straight to
the meeting, or whatever. And there are other businesses. Google has a very generous
policy in terms of money that you save on one
trip can be banked at a certain rate
towards another trip. There's companies like Upside
and Rocketrip and TravelPerk. What do you make of those? Like, how does that
change the optimization? BRIAN KELLY: Yeah. And Upside's really interesting. We just met with them. So they basically
give gift cards to business travelers
for being flexible, which I think makes sense. I mean, to be honest,
when I was on Wall Street, there were times
when I would book last minute to get the full
fare to automatic upgrade. So when business
travelers are incentivized to travel better if
you book last minute, I mean, I think it makes
sense if the company can en masse save money by
leaving a day early or so. But I mean,
Rocketmiles, all those. They're nice little
boosts of bonuses whenever you book hotels. But you know, Upside
is interesting. I won't really comment on it
until I can fully test it, but the concept is interesting. CLIFF REDEKER: Yeah. Well, and there's
also the services that you book space on a
private plane and just jet up and down to Los Angeles. BRIAN KELLY: Yeah,
surveyors of the world. Yeah. They're interesting. CLIFF REDEKER: Yeah. I think you flew them
once to Miami, right? BRIAN KELLY: I did-- oh,
Blade in New York now. So Blade is a big one. They fly helicopters
in the Northeast, and they do a G5,
New York to Miami. Which, I mean, that's bringing
the golden age of travel back. It's an amazing experience. It's like $2,000 one way. I mean, you can use
points if you've got, like, Capital One or
a rival plus miles. CLIFF REDEKER: Yeah, and for me,
the packing's always too much. Like, I can't fit my
carry-on on the helicopter. BRIAN KELLY: Yeah. CLIFF REDEKER: Maybe
one step at a time. BRIAN KELLY: Life's hard, Cliff. CLIFF REDEKER: I know, right? Right? And this year, we've
seen a tough year for certain high-value programs. The American devaluations in
March, the switch in August you talked about. We of course have
always breaking news on Citi and their
prestige, and you know, rumors from Chase
about everything else. Do you think that this is
the decline of the year of the sign-up bonuses? What are you afraid of? What gives you hope? BRIAN KELLY: Sign-up
bonuses, absolutely not. So they come and go. This year we've seen--
American Express is actually sending out targeted offers. 250,000 Amex points for
the business platinum. So that's another tip. Always, as much as
I'd like you all to get credit card
through thepointguy.com-- that's our business model--
But check your mail. Snail mail is still one of
the best ways to get offers. So the bonuses are really high. Of course, they're
tweaking the value of those points on the back
end, and they're coming down. But beyond sign-up bonuses
and then just these super lucrative earning ratios. And what the airlines
will give you-- the credit card companies will
give you on all the top spend, really focus on maximizing
every single dollar. I mean, 2 or 3x points
here and there may not seem like much, but on a whole-- CLIFF REDEKER:
Builds up over time. BRIAN KELLY: Yeah. So there are always
going to be devaluations. But, you know, if a
card devalues so much, a lot of people are
thinking about canceling the Prestige next year
when those go into affect. You vote with your wallet. Loyalty goes both
ways, you know? So if you're unhappy with
the change, change airlines, start banking with
different programs. CLIFF REDEKER: Yeah. I think that's one thing that
people don't really fully appreciate. You want to go where the
benefits are the best, and vote with the wallet. We had a question from
Darren, a Googler here. He was wondering if you
have any recommendations for nontraditional
ways of earning points and miles beyond
credit card churning, beyond manufactured spend. We don't see a lot
of manufactured spend in The Points Guy. BRIAN KELLY: Well, the
manufactured spend-- so for people who
don't know it, it's a little bit of a gray area. There's a lot of
different formats where you can buy things
with a credit card. So the main one
was in the 2000s, you could buy US gold
coins from the treasury at cost and free shipping. So you'd buy,
let's say, $100,000 worth of these coins delivered
in trucks to your house. You get 100,000 points, and
you go straight to the bank and redeposit them. So you just got
100,000 free points for having the hassle
to redeem the coins. So manufactured
spend, a lot of people now will buy gift cards
with a credit card at an office supply store
that gives 5x points, and then even sell them on eBay. Or you can then actually
move them into other formats. We have almost three million
monthly unique visitors. We used to talk about Bluebird
and stuff from back in the day. The problem with the internet,
as I'm sure many of you are aware, people
don't read, right? So we would say, OK. Get this Bluebird card. This is the picture. This is the one. Don't get the Bluebird visa. And we would get tons
of, I got the Bluebird. Wait, you got the--
so it's complex. And frankly, because
all the credit card companies do
monitor our site. So for the really
nitty gritty gray area, it's not in anyone's
best interest. So people, you know, there's
Reddit churning forums that are good for that. FlyerTalk has
manufactured spend. So those are the best areas to
really go and learn about that. CLIFF REDEKER: And it really
becomes a question of it's all worth it. I mean, you know, when you get
the miles, like, the effort-- BRIAN KELLY: Yeah. You have to put a value
on your time, right? So you know, if your
time is valuable, it can be-- there
is risk involved. I know a lot of
people buy gift cards. And then PayPal,
for example, there was a big PayPal
thing where you could get trans-- but all of this
borders on money laundering. So a lot of this activity can
look like what drug dealers do, and go to Walmart and
buy a money order, and then try to launder it. So even though you really
aren't breaking the law, accounts can get frozen. There's a lot of downside to
it that I frankly-- for me and for business owners
out there-- so for all of our Google spend and
Facebook advertising, Amex Business Gold has 3x on--
you can choose one category. So internet advertising
and Google counts. So we run all of our social
spend on credit cards, and the first
100,000 we get, I'm getting 300,000 Amex points. So to pay $175 or
$195 for that card, I'm getting 200,000 extra
points than if I put it on another card. So I really focus-- and
you can win at this game by just staying
above board and just playing by the rules they set. It's pretty lucrative. CLIFF REDEKER: Yeah. Keeping it legal is
something that's-- BRIAN KELLY: Keeping it legal. Exactly. [LAUGHTER] Using credit cards
for jail bonds. That's a good blog post. CLIFF REDEKER: Yeah. And then redeeming the points
for champagne in the Delta Sky Clubs BRIAN KELLY: Yeah. Little sparkling wine. I don't think they
have champagne. CLIFF REDEKER: Prosecco. BRIAN KELLY: Not to mince words. CLIFF REDEKER: And then we had
another question from Janine as well. She was wondering, are you
an American million miler? Are such things
worth it anymore? BRIAN KELLY: I'm not a
million miler, actually. So I think I'm, like, 700,000. So I actually wasn't-- so
American used to be able to get million miler status by you
spending on your credit card. It was the one
airline that would. So back in the day, I
wasn't big into churning, so I didn't get the
two million just by spending on my credit card. So I'm doing it the
old-fashioned way, which I'll get there in a couple years. But I mean, the million
mile status sounds amazing, but it's really the
lowest level elite status. Which these days, the
airlines have watered down so much that you basically get
the same from a Coburn credit card. So as much as it's a
nice pat on the back-- and that's another
lesson I urge people, is I call it the elite
status hamster wheel, right? Like so many people--
elite status. I'm cool. I'm part of the club. Well, you know, the
lower level elite statuses these days
have been watered down and benefits ripped apart. You can't even select
a premium economy seat on United and Delta now. They're really pulling back. So you know, yes, it's nice to
have some airline elite status. But especially in a
town like San Francisco, United silver status
is worth as much as-- CLIFF REDEKER: Yeah,
this bottle of water. Yeah. Well, and even,
there's so many 1Ks flying, like, SFO to O'Hare. I mean, executive platinum
status doesn't always clear. And to that end as
well, I'm proud to say, I made executive platinum
for the first time this year. BRIAN KELLY: Woohoo! [APPLAUSE] CLIFF REDEKER: A little
mini accomplishment. BRIAN KELLY: Halfway
through the year, too. That's pretty impressive. CLIFF REDEKER: Yeah. Well, it's a lot of
that business class. And went to Penang,
Malaysia for the fun back through Cathay
First to Vancouver. It's great this year. Next year, it's still
kind of questionable. Still up in the air. We're not sure about
the spend requirements. BRIAN KELLY: Well, I
think the last two years, we've seen a lot of change with
the US Airways merger settling. All the major mergers
have settled now. You know, we're still
waiting on Alaska and Virgin. But in general, I
think we've gone through a really big
period of change. And I think I
hopefully-- maybe I'm just too much of an optimist. I see over the
next couple years, there's not to be too much
drastic change going on. We're still waiting to see with
the Marriott-Starwood merger. There's huge question
marks there with how that's going to go down. And that could affect
future hotel mergers. But I think in
general, I mean, I'm looking forward
to some stability. I don't think there's going
to be major devaluations. Unless you're Delta, which
devalues on a weekly basis. CLIFF REDEKER: It's
all a mystery there. BRIAN KELLY: It's all a mystery. There's no award charts. CLIFF REDEKER: And
so for those of us that just joined, what
are the best fringe benefits to take advantage
of besides the cafe lounges, the cabanas, the
salt-and-pepper squid? Anything that people might
not normally think of? BRIAN KELLY: I mean, one
of the new lounges, Amex has Centurion lounges,
which they just opened in Houston this week. San Francisco's really nice. So these are
actually lounges that are-- I think a lot
of airline lounges have dropped in quality. So the Amex platinum's $450. Off the bat, you get a
$200 airline fee credit. And it says you can only
use it for airline fees, but in reality, you can
actually get airline gift cards. So every year, I get
four $50 AA gift cards. So my $450 a year platinum
card all of the sudden costs me $250 for Delta lounge
access and unlimited lounge access to these Centurion
lounges, which at SFO is wine tasting, two free guests. Everything's free. There's no up charges like
cheap other American carriers that charge for premium cheese. So I think-- and
points are great, but perks can be even better. So there are credit
cards out there. The Citi Prestige. Yes, there's terrible
news this week. They're changing next year you. Can't get into the AA lounges. But the best benefits
still-- it's mildly tweaked, but you get the fourth night
free of any hotel, basically, including corporate rates. See, that benefit
alone is unbelievable. You can get many
thousands a year for paying for that benefit. Plus you also get a
$250 airline credit. So cheap is expensive is
another thing with credit cards, that annual fee cards
frankly suck, you know? Like, that's not
where the value is. So sometimes paying
an annual fee-- but dig into the benefits. CLIFF REDEKER: And
percent, you know, like 1% back may not always
be the best option if you get that in cash versus
the value you have for travel. BRIAN KELLY: Yeah. A lot of people call
me and say, well, I have a Capital One card. I'm getting 1% or 2% back. And those cards are fine. And those cards are great. But think about it. You spend $100,000, and it'll
give you $2,000 in travel. You spend $100,000 on a couple
other cards, you get bonuses, you're going to Asia three
times in first class. So you can buy two
economy tickets to Europe, or if you get
bonuses on other cards and transfer and get-- so the
fixed value cards are slow, steady. There's no devaluations. But there's also
little upside as well. You're never going to get
more than a cent in value for a Capital One point, ever. No matter who you are. I can't. You know, like, so
with that stability comes the lack of upside. CLIFF REDEKER: Well,
and transitioning now to thepointsguy.com,
the sort of media empire that you're building here,
the first question I had is, how do you balance
information sharing with deal crashing? Is the tragedy of the
commons inevitable? BRIAN KELLY: No. I mean, we used to get a lot
of flak for posting deals. In this day and age
of social media, deals spread like wildfire. My take is if it's going
to benefit our readers, then that's it. We're going to share it. Now if it's gray
area bending rules, we're probably not going
to because our policy is, let's just stay above
board with everything. And we have ethics that
we'd like to stick to. But, yeah. In terms of deals, we share it. That's the whole
point of the website. That's why we've doubled
in size every year. And that's why people
come to us and trust us. We don't take freebies
from any airlines. All of our reviews are
paid for by ourselves. So I stick to that. And people who come
into it and then-- this is an amazing, amazing hobby. Whatever you want to call it. It's amazing. Once you're part of the
club, like many other things, people want to shut
the doors down. But that's not the
society we live in. And there will
never be doors shut. I mean, yes, there's
some secret groups out there for frequent
flyers that share deals, and that's great. But in general, we're going
to share the information. And I mean, I thrive off of now. I mean, I see people
every day in airports. I'm six foot, 7",
so I'm easy to spot. And people share stories. All of our email's positive. People whose lives
have been changed. CLIFF REDEKER: Reader
success stories. BRIAN KELLY: Reader
success stories of people who got
married and, you know, their rocky, long-distance
relationship all of the sudden became a lot more
doable, because they were able to see each other more. So that's what I focus on. Not the naysayers or the trolls. CLIFF REDEKER:
No, no the haters. Yeah, no haters. And then if you want to
share a little bit more about the sort of
business side of things, like is there a dollar figure of
money that circulates through? Like, is the referral bonus
sustainable for bloggers? BRIAN KELLY: Yeah. I mean, the business that
we've created is really unique. It's affiliate marketing, right? So almost all of
our revenue comes from people who get credit
cards on our websites. Or motto is, we have a
staff of about 10 now, and 20 contributors that we
pay I think pretty fairly. But you know, the site's free. So even the app is free. And it costs a lot of money
to run this business, office in New York. So the affiliate model's great. I mean, our readers, you're
going to get the best offer. So it's like, if you can give
a credit card company $100 or give The Points
Guy, that we'll invest in more
content that's suited to you, that's a no-brainer. And credit card
companies in the past, the best we've been
given-- had issues with, is the best offer
really being available? I stand by-- we offer the
best publicly available deal. Yeah, sometimes you
can go incognito in the checkout
process, and maybe get a special offer that you
can kind of tweak the system. But we can't, in
a blog post when we're writing about a deal, we
write about the best publicly available offer. So sometimes you can tweak
the system to get better, and people will
say-- but I'm like, we have three million readers. I can't. In every blog post, we're
talking about United, say, well maybe if some
people go through this channel and tweak it this
way-- so in general, we offer the best deals. And the business is amazing. I'm proud of it. And we're heavily
investing in video now. We just relaunched our
TPG TV series, which follows me around the world. And it's not just, oh, look
at me drinking champagne on a plane, which is fun. But it's like tangible--
we cut the size down, and it's tangible tricks
that you can also share. Like "How to Book Singapore
Suites in 90 Seconds," which was released this week. "What's the Best Hyatt in
Tokyo" is coming out next week. So we take a look at all three
of the major Hyatt's points, locations. So we're trying to help
consumers make better decisions with their points via video. CLIFF REDEKER: Is there anything
that people may not fully appreciate about TPG TV? Is it a different experience
when you go into the Hyatts with a camera crew? And how do you
keep objectivity-- BRIAN KELLY: You know we do
have get permissions to fly. And I actually didn't
think the airlines were going to let us film on board. But almost every single
airline has allowed us to film on board. I mean, I think at
the end of the day, the product is what
you want to see. And I'm six foot 7". So whenever I fly in a
product, if I'm comfortable, like, chances are you
probably will be too. And really, it's not about the
flight review as much as how you can actually fly to Africa
for $5.60 using Delta miles. That's one of the best
ways-- Delta miles are really devalued, but to
Africa, it's amazing. So they fly JFK to Accra. And Africa's amazing. Probably one of my
favorite places to visit. So the point of TPG TV
on flying Delta to Accra is showing the product. It's a pretty decent
business class product. So, yeah. I mean, tweaking video's
an interesting beast. And obviously, we
hear in social media, it's video, video, video. We see all of our
major news networks now switching to video
and Facebook Live. So I think we're adapting
and we're learning. But I think we've gotten great
feedback on the episodes. And it's meant to
entertain and educate. CLIFF REDEKER:
And like you said, there's a big
education component. So it's not like, what's
best dim sum in Hong Kong, necessarily. Like, there's other ways
to get that information. BRIAN KELLY: Yeah. So we do have some of those
fun-- like the robot restaurant and eating blowfish in Osaka. CLIFF REDEKER: You survived. BRIAN KELLY: Yeah, I survived. Fugu blowfish is
actually amazing. I highly recommend
it, but only at, like, the right restaurants. So stay tuned for
the TPG TV episode where we tell you the right
one to go to in Osaka. CLIFF REDEKER: Nice. Nice. Very cool. So I have some questions
about travel life, but if you all in the audience
have some questions as well, we'll have a mic that
circulates around. So raise your hand. We'll seek you out
and toss it your way. So you know, travel life,
how do you value the effort behind getting these points? Like, are there
diminishing returns? Like, how do you calculate
these monthly valuations that you post on TV? BRIAN KELLY: Yeah, so we do
a monthly valuation where we-- basically, it's a ranking. Not all points are
created equal, right? Some point currencies are
much, much more valuable. Like, Starwood points
are the most valuable. And then on the flip side,
like, Spirit Airlines rewards, like, expire after a week
if you don't punch yourself in the face. [LAUGHTER] We're going to make them
much more scientific. But the thing is
with these, there's billions of permutations of
how you can use points, right? Some people would rather
go twice in economy. You know, and I've just flown
the Latun-- or the Qantas first class. It was a $9,000
ticket, and I spent $42, which sounds amazing. But you know, I wasn't
going to spend 18 grand to fly because I have
millions of miles, so what's the real value? There is no right answer. But the fact of the
matter is that a bunch of other people
on that plane did spend $9,000, or at least full
fare business and upgraded. So the value of
miles is amazing. But we're going to be
trying to put a little bit more technology into
the ease of redeeming. But at the end of
the day, you know, there's always
surveys that come out. The best frequent flyer
miles in the world are-- and it's like
Southwest, because you can use it on every flight. I'm like, yeah. But Southwest is pointless if
you want to go to Australia, or don't want to fly
coach domestically. So there's no one right program. And for me, I mean, it's all
on the credit card spend. That's how I make
most of my miles. I also do buy a lot of miles. So Alaska Airlines sells points
or miles for about $0.02 a pop. So my 70,000 miles I used
for the one-way Qantas first cost me about $1,400. So you can buy miles,
and airlines still drastically discount miles to
usually around $0.02 a pop. So if you value miles
or need to top up, buying miles can still
make a lot of sense. But just be warned,
when you buy miles, they could devalue at any time. So have a plan of
attack when using them, and know how to use them. CLIFF REDEKER: And even the
posting, the delay for posting can be something that
you need to worry about. BRIAN KELLY: Yeah. CLIFF REDEKER: With the
transferable credit cards. And of course, you know,
your work is travel. Travel is your work. How do you balance your
sort of personal life with the jet-setting adventures? BRIAN KELLY: Yeah. That's hard. I'm still learning. [LAUGH] Because I actually was sitting
on the plane the other day. I'm like, I'm
addicted to travel. Like, I flew to
Auckland for three days, and then flew in on Tuesday. And we had a
300-person event in LA. And people were like,
who's this monster? Like, how do you
just keep going? But it's what I love, too. And it's amazing. With points, flying
first and business class to Australia for three days
isn't that big of a deal. I actually wasn't hung--
or, not hung over. I wasn't jet lagged at all. [LAUGHTER] CLIFF REDEKER:
That Qantas lounge in LAX, though, they've
got the ice wine. I'm just saying. BRIAN KELLY: I actually
didn't drink at all. I'm writing my first book
on points and my stories. So the whole point
of this trip was to sequester myself with
no Wi-Fi, which Qantas doesn't have, thankfully. And I actually got a ton of
writing done on the plane. So that's actually what
I love about travel. On the ground, so I'm on
Snapchat, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram. Constant employees
nagging me all the time. And I actually just
want to raise-- CLIFF REDEKER: We've got some-- BRIAN KELLY: We've got my
editorial director James Cury. Here. He manages all of our content. He came from "Details" magazine. Scott Kidder, who's my CEO,
came from a site, Gawker Media. And Kate, who's my longest
standing employee-- I don't even know
what she does anymore. She's basically the
wizard behind the machine that, like, makes
everything run on the site. She knows where all
the bodies are buried. So I can't not have her around. CLIFF REDEKER: Cool. BRIAN KELLY: She's
also the co-parent of my cute dog, Miles. CLIFF REDEKER: Who unfortunately
could not make it today. Google's a dog-friendly place. But next time. BRIAN KELLY: I didn't
want to be overshadowed by my adorably cute blue French
bulldog, is the real reason. CLIFF REDEKER: As it happens. What would you say your
philosophy of travel is? Like, when you go to
a new destination, how do you approach it? What do you look for? BRIAN KELLY: Yeah,
unlike some people who are addicted
in the travel, I travel because I do
love the destination. You know, being
on airplanes, even in the best first-class
cabin is still exhausting, tiring on your body. But the world, there's just so
much-- there's so many amazing places to see in the world
that it's worth it to me. So I travel for the destination. It brings family together. I just took my parents to Africa
using points, first class. So they didn't even feel guilty
that I spent a ton of money on them. But I'm closer with my parents
now because of that trip. The trip was life changing
in so many different ways. So travel changes your life. I wish more people would
travel and kind of get the world mindset. And it also helps realize, we
do have a lot of things amazing here, but there's a lot
of things we can change. The blanket statement,
America's the best. Like, it's not actually
true when you see the world. CLIFF REDEKER: And it's
moving beyond the room service and the hotel
restaurant to see what life is like on the grounds. Cool. Are there audience
questions at this time? Any burning questions so far? If not, you can
hold them for later. I did have a question
from Angela, in fact. What travel experiences have
influenced your future travel destinations, and why? BRIAN KELLY: Well, actually,
I have a fear of heights, which is kind of funny. Someone actually tweeted
me, isn't that ironic that you're really tall
and afraid of heights? But I've been confronting
my fear of heights. I did hot air ballooning
in Turkey in Cappadocia. I highly recommend--
maybe wait a little while as things settle down. But actually, Turkey's
still a great destination. We had one of our
writers there last week. And I think it's kind of fun
to travel to conquer your fear. So in Auckland, I
jumped off of the-- CLIFF REDEKER: Oh, right. The Sky Tower. BRIAN KELLY: The SkyJump,
which was terrifying. And being at the edge-- it
was pulling me off the edge. And the guy was like, put
both feet at the edge. And I'm like, it's
pulling me off. Am I unhooked yet? Like, I was panicking. But you know, the 10-second
almost free fall was amazing. So now I actually have skydiving
on the list, which I never thought I would do. So travel for me, I still
like to be pushed out of my comfort zone. My main place that
I love visiting is the continent of Africa. It is so unbelievably-- it's
inspiring, breathtaking. Safari's probably been-- I
just took my parents on safari in Tanzania. Sabi Sands and
Kruger's a great place. Go to South Africa. If you guys are looking
for travel inspiration, South Africa is incredibly
affordable once you get there, and it's everything. You know, Cape Town's
a European city on the beach with penguins. You can drive to the
Cape of Good Hope. The wine country
outside of Cape Town is unbelievably,
insanely beautiful wines. And it's so affordable. The dollar is so
strong against Iran. And getting their on miles
is doable, especially with the Middle
Eastern carriers. CLIFF REDEKER: And the
A380 to Johannesburg now. BRIAN KELLY: Yes. So, yeah. On Etihad right now. CLIFF REDEKER: Yeah. Or Emirates, right? BRIAN KELLY: On Emirates, yeah. CLIFF REDEKER: And do
you still scuba dive? I saw, like, the
progress of lessons, and haven't seen many posts. BRIAN KELLY: That was crazy. So I love scuba diving. So the world is more covered
in water than it is land. So underwater is
unbelievably beautiful. I got scuba certified
for a year and a half. It was Great Barrier
Reef, Maldives. My favorite dive actually
was in the Cayman Islands. It was like a video game. It was a cavern, and we
were just going through. And it was an absolute video
game of things I've never seen. And I love sharks. They're my favorite animal. And you realize sharks,
like, don't give a crap at all about people. This whole fear about sharks
is really interesting. But unfortunately, in
Maui, I was diving, and the next day, I felt like
there was water in my ear, and ended up going
deaf for nine days. Completely deaf in
my right ear, which apparently is a freak thing
that happens to some people. Because I tweeted about it,
and a couple other people-- they said I may never
have my hearing back. I went to three
different hospitals, and they had to put a
syringe into my ear drum, and pumped it full of steroids. Which actually worked
two days later. I was at dinner, and
I heard a crackle. And then it finally came
back, pretty much 100%. CLIFF REDEKER:
That's good to hear. BRIAN KELLY: Not to
be a Debbie downer. [LAUGHTER] But I will get back
in the water one day. But not quite yet. CLIFF REDEKER: That's OK. BRIAN KELLY: Are you a diver? CLIFF REDEKER: Actually, I just
got my open water certification at South Beach Divers. BRIAN KELLY: Oh, the one-- CLIFF REDEKER: Yeah. BRIAN KELLY: Yeah, the
one that I went to. CLIFF REDEKER: Yeah. Yeah. It worked out pretty well. So I have it,
like, on the ready. So the next time I go to the
South Pacific or something, I can just hop on in. BRIAN KELLY: I
highly recommend it. Everyone thinks you're going to
be claustrophobic in breathing. And you'll get over it,
and it's totally worth it. It is very dangerous, though,
so take it very seriously. I almost died once or twice. CLIFF REDEKER: Read
the directions. [LAUGHTER] So also, one of the things
that we're doing here at Google, our
GooglersGive team helps us donate our time, money,
and effort to various causes. And so we have a badge to
donate station for the Points for Peace in the PeaceJam. And so I wanted to just talk
to you a little bit about that. How did you get started on that? What's been the sort of
rewarding experiences you've seen from it? BRIAN KELLY: Oh my gosh. PeaceJam-- so the
business was successful. And finding a charity
is kind of hard. Like, everyone's like,
what's your ultimate passion in charity? And you're like, I mean,
I'm a giving person, and it's hard to pick
a charity that aligns with what you love doing. And I think charity work is
just much like your work life, right? So once you really align and
figure out what you love doing, you'll succeed much quicker than
randomly being placed in a job. So you know, charity
for me for a while was just writing checks
to organizations, but I realized that
wasn't very fulfilling. A friend came to me
one day and was like, I have to talk to you. In college, I was
involved with PeaceJam. I think you'll
absolutely love it. So PeaceJam is an
organization that Meng, the former Jolly Good
Fellow of Google, who I've been working
with-- so he now works with PeaceJam full time on this
Billion Acts of Peace campaign. The whole point is taking
the work of Nobel Peace Prize winners, 13 of the most
inspiring in the world-- Dalai Lama, Desmond
Tutu, Rigoberta Menchu-- taking their teachings,
making a curriculum to kids around the world. So Points for Peace
was launched this year with the hopes of having people
be able to donate their points and miles, their money. You can actually earn
points by using your credit card to donate for them. And I think we can all agree
the world needs more peace, more so than ever. And as much as we
want to put our head in the sand with crazy
news stories every day, it's not all terrible. It's so inspiring. There's youth around
the world that really want to make a difference. So in Ghana-- yeah. So through Points
for Peace, we're helping in Guatemala,
Ghana, South Africa, India, and East Timor. There's these budding
movements of kids there who learn all year
long the curriculum, and then we bring and use
points to bring the Nobels, and they do two-day
jams, the PeaceJam. So I was working with Meng. We're bringing it to Singapore. And it's amazing. I'm mean, to be able to
see these Nobel Peace Prize winners who have been
through-- you think you've been through a lot. You hear-- you know, Rigoberta
Menchu, whose whole family was assassinated during the
36-year civil war in Guatemala. And for me, even being
able to be around them, I get so much out of it. So we're bringing
these Nobels to kids to help them better
their communities, and hopefully create
a whole new generation of nonviolent leaders. So Points for Peace,
we just launched. And we're working with
all the credit card companies and airlines. You know, they all have
their own charities, and it's political, but
we're making great progress. You Singapore Airlines
just did a match. If any of you have Singapore
Airlines miles, up to 250,000 donated. You can even donate
1,000 of them. They'll match to us. And the airlines are
on board with it. So it's our first year, but
I foresee us growing it. And at a certain
point, I was like, we've just got to launch
and continue to evolve it. CLIFF REDEKER: And there's a
spot for readers too to, like, lend their travel expertise. Like, be a volunteer,
point maximizers. BRIAN KELLY: So the
goal is that people will be able to donate
points-- right now, you can donate points. So if someone said, I have
20,000 British Airways Avios, where you actually use
that to fly two PeaceJam staffers to Guatemala,
because that's the best use of British
Airways on short-haul flights on American. So we have people who have
knowledge on how to use points, and then we have
people donating points. So our goal is to just
grow, and have these growing pools of points to help. Because frankly, charities
really get killed with travel. Travel is really
hard for charities, especially when you're going
to the developing world. Just to send one conference
staffer to East Timor is like $3,000. But it's only, like,
70,000 United miles. So we're helping
maximize miles for good is the general point
of Points for Peace. CLIFF REDEKER: And
you can check that out at the table in the back, or
also on The Points Guy website. BRIAN KELLY: And
none of the money actually goes to the Points--
it all goes to PeaceJam. The Points for Peace
is just the initiative. So we're not trying to
create a new charity. We're just trying to help
charities that already have something amazing
going on, and to take it to the next level. CLIFF REDEKER: All right. Cool. So if there's any questions
from the audience, feel free to raise your hand. Any news from the
Google moderator, Adam? AUDIENCE: So you talked
a bunch about how getting credit cards with
a sign-up bonus [INAUDIBLE] can give you a lot of miles. And we have a couple
of Googlers here who wanted to know a bit more
about, how do you personally keep track of your
credit Cards And along with that, the points? You have a certain spend by
a certain amount of time, and so on. BRIAN KELLY: So I
want to be clear, too. With the credit card--
getting credit cards, you have to be on
your game, right? You need to pay attention. One missed payment--
granted, you can usually ask for forgiveness, but
it can be ver complex. So I have 26 credit cards. You know, points.com,
Award Wallet, there are great ways
to kind of track. Our app, the TPG
To Go, actually you can tell us what
credit cards you have, and we'll actually tell you when
your annual fee's coming up, and make sure if any
points are going to expire. But frankly, I mean,
I have a spreadsheet, kind of old fashioned. And Kate here is
probably giggling. Luckily, Kate's not
my assistant anymore. But I have people
who help me track. Because it is a lot of time. And of course, I'm
over the top because I need to test out every
credit card, and whatnot. So, yeah. And with applying
for credit cards, there is a small two to
five point, you know, temporary ding on your credit. But people think-- you hear the
Suze Ormans of the world that are like, pay cash
for everything, and credit cards are the devil. And I understand. A lot of Americans are in debt. And the goal is, if
you're carrying balances, do not get miles and
points credit cards. Focus first and foremost
on getting debt-free. Because if you're
carrying balances, the crazy APRs, even on
the best credit cards, are going to negate the
value of those points. So the number one goal should
be to get debt-free and get to a place where you can put
everything on a credit card, but pay it off in
full every month. That's winning the game. So there are a lot
of credit cards that will, if you
have a balance, focus on neutralizing that
debt before getting into it. But it still does
take a bunch of time. There's no one perfect
app or software out there that
will do it for you. CLIFF REDEKER: Cool. AUDIENCE: What are
your thoughts on some of the rumored new credit cards
coming out from Chase Sapphire Reserve and things like that? Is that worth waiting out
for, especially if you're close to that 5/24 rule? BRIAN KELLY: Yeah. So there's a rumor. I've actually asked
Chase for conformation on the exact details,
but there's a rumor that-- Chase Sapphire
Preferred is my favorite card. If you're looking to
get a credit card, it's just a no-brainer. The fee's waived the first year. You get 50,000 points. You cannot lose getting
that card, right? And you get double points
on travel and dining. There's rumors of an even better
card coming out next month, which makes sense, right? You would think,
Citi's got a $450 card. Amex has a $450. So for Chase to compete
for top-tier consumers, it makes complete sense. So the card sounds amazing. Going back to the 5/24
rule where Chase is really clamping down, I
probably-- and that's the thing about
this game is that, don't go too much
too soon, right? If you're new to this, you
can get a ton of bonuses. But there's spend requirements. There is an impact
on your credit. The credit card companies
are becoming more savvy. If you open and
close, open and close and you're poking them in
the eye-- don't make yourself a bad customer, right? Because you can get
banned from banks. Now in general, you won't. But be a good customer, right? Go slow and steady and
get your-- have a checking account with Chase, right? Like, throw them a couple
bones so on the whole, you're a good customer and
they keep doing these things. But yeah, and in
general, you used to be able to get the same card
bunches of different times. There's still some
credit card companies that will let you get the
same card over and over again. But, yeah. They are becoming smarter. Take that approach. And if you hear a rumor of an
amazing card coming out soon, and if it seems like a founded
rumor, you know, wait and see. You've got to think
big picture, right? CLIFF REDEKER: There's
always another deal. BRIAN KELLY: There's
always another deal. But all good deals
come to an end, right? So the more you wait, there
is an opportunity cost to waiting on that. CLIFF REDEKER: All right. We had a question
in the back there, and then we'll grab
one here on the right. AUDIENCE: This is actually
a question from Ryan in our LAX Google office. Save reward versus
standard fare award. What's the best time
to buy save rewards? Six months out, two weeks out? What's the breakdown for that? BRIAN KELLY: So save
rewards are awards at the very lowest level, right? So the goal is to always
find save rewards. Why give them more
miles than possible? So the problem is that the
airlines are holding them back longer and
longer to departure, because shockingly,
airlines are, in the US, publicly traded companies
that want to maximize profit. They want to offer save rewards
so they can advertise it. But for every single
person all the time, they want you to spend more. So this is going back to
the flexibility thing. If you're risk-averse, I would
say, book a standard award. You know, I actually
just booked one. I'm going to Europe. I want to fly on the
nonstop Rome flight. Rome to New York
on a certain day that I have to be home for
a big meeting the next day. I have an AA elite
status, so I booked 135,000 miles AA one way. It's a $4,000 ticket to buy. I don't want to connect randomly
in Dusseldorf for 12 hours. So I have that 135k
standard award waiting, but I can change it
unlimited times for free, because I'm elite. And even if you're
not elite, AA, if they do open up
a save reward, which you can set an expert flier
alert, you can pay $150 and get 57,500-- you know,
80,000 miles back, or whatever. And the same goes, you
know, if you fly Southwest, keep monitoring to make sure
that the price doesn't drop. Because all you do is call,
and you get a free credit in your account when it drops. There's actually, at our
app launch the other night, a new company called
Earny-- E-A-R-N-Y-- which is an app that'll
consistently check, if you have purchase protection
and you purchase items, it'll keep checking for
price drop, for hotels. So it's a really fascinating--
I haven't checked it out myself yet. But you can save tons of money
and miles by staying on it. And the week of
departure, airlines release tons and tons
of saver-level awards. So even if you're
booked on an American Air-- a US carrier
and their partner opens up-- almost always, I'd
say, go with Asian carriers or even European carriers
beat the US carriers. Not in all cases. AUDIENCE: For starters,
I'm not very spontaneous or a last-minute traveler. I want things planned before. How do I actually get
some [INAUDIBLE] fines? BRIAN KELLY: Yeah, you
can still plan ahead. I would just say, be flexible. If you have time-- or be
flexible on your destination. Or you can still
plan in advance. It's not all last minute, right? For last minute, to the winner
goes the spoils is amazing. But you can still
definitely plan in advance and find save rewards. But if you are a little
bit-- the more flexible you are, the greater the reward. AUDIENCE: So here at
Google, fortunately, Google pays for almost everything
except for rent for us, so we may or may not have $4,000
of expenses in three months to meet a sign-up bonus. And you said you're not a huge
fan of manufacturing spending. So how would you
suggest that someone without a lot of the expenses
get the sign-up bonus? BRIAN KELLY: Yeah, I mean,
there are ways-- sometimes it may make sense. So you can pay rent. You know, most landlords
will charge a fee. So it may make sense to hit a
sign-up bonus to spend $3,000 to pay, you know-- CLIFF REDEKER: Taxes. BRIAN KELLY: Tax, yeah. Or even pay your taxes at 1.9%. To pay a little bit to
get the huge sign-up bonus can make sense. So as much as
manufactured spending's about getting it for free, don't
give cash gifts for weddings. Use your Amex and buy
an Amex gift card. There might be the $5.95 fee. Or give gift cards. You know, your nieces,
instead of giving them cash, buy a Bed Bath & Beyond gift
card at an office supply store or a supermarket. So there are ways. I mean, but at the
end of the day, you do have to spend in
order to get the bonuses. But it may not be
completely free. But where we work, I was
paying rent directly. And then one day
I was like, well, let me just use a credit card. And WeWork takes credit
card with no fee. So now at $9,000 a
month-- so a lot of times it's just, once again, poking
around and pushing the status quo. And it never hurts to ask. CLIFF REDEKER: Right. So I wanted to wrap
up with a few sort of rapid-fire questions. We've got some
favorites and failures that you may have
experienced in your travels. So the first one, most
intriguing airline or hotel you have yet to experience. BRIAN KELLY: Intriguing,
yet to experience. CLIFF REDEKER:
Well, like, I mean, you probably haven't
flown Saudi yet, or-- BRIAN KELLY: Well, I won't,
because it's a dry airline, and they don't like gay people. [LAUGHTER] Nothing against Saudi Arabia. It's just the truth. Where do I want to try? Oh, that's a good question. I like flying wonky carries. Like, I've flown,
like, Mauritius Air and Seychelles Air. I've actually never
flown Turkish Airlines. I hear they've got
a good product. CLIFF REDEKER: Nice. BRIAN KELLY: Good food. CLIFF REDEKER: And a
good lounge in Istanbul when things settle
down a little bit. Without considering any
possible points that you'd earn from the trip
or points that you'd redeem to go on the trip,
which destination stands out the most on it's own right? BRIAN KELLY: So South
Africa, hands down, is just my favorite,
all-around destination. And I love Spain, as
far as Europe goes. Beautiful, fun, inexpensive. CLIFF REDEKER: That's where
your correspondent is. Lori, right? BRIAN KELLY: International
correspondent, Lori Zaino. CLIFF REDEKER: So
what's the worst use of points that either
you've had to do yourself, or that people have that
people wouldn't normally think? BRIAN KELLY: Yeah. So when I worked on Wall
Street, funny enough, I was points rich and cash poor. So I used a bunch
of Delta miles. Used to be able to use,
like, half a cent a point for gift cards. So I was buying gift cards
to buy Christmas gifts, because to me at that point,
I didn't need another trip to the Seychelles. I needed to get gifts for
people, and I had no money. I was, like, really broke. So merchandise is generally
not a great use of points. But another tenet is if
points make you happy and it serves a need right
now, than do it, right? CLIFF REDEKER: If you need
that magazine subscription, get the magazine subscription. So rounding the corner here,
the most surprising difference between expectation and reality? So something you thought
was amazing, not so much. Or something not so
much, it was amazing. BRIAN KELLY: When I flew
the Etihad Residence, I actually paid $33,000 to fly
on a one-way flight from JFK to Abu Dhabi. They ended up losing my bag. Left it-- my carry-on bag. They left it in the lounge in
New York and didn't even know. So when I landed, I
waited an hour and a half, and they were like, oh, yeah. We left it in JFK. I'm like, whatever happened
if you see something, say something? How did no one at the lounge-- CLIFF REDEKER:
Evacuate the terminal. BRIAN KELLY: So the Residence
experience was cool. You have your own
bedroom and bathroom. But it was nowhere
near worth $33,000. Although from a
business expense, it paid off, because we got over
a million views from the video. And people in the airport,
actually a concession worker goes, you're that
guy who paid $33,000. [LAUGHTER] So for the price of airport
fame, it was worth it. CLIFF REDEKER: Yeah. Otherwise, stick to the
apartment, which is fine. BRIAN KELLY: The
apartment, using AA miles. CLIFF REDEKER: So
most extreme points optimization that
you've ever done. BRIAN KELLY: I think
one of the best is-- so Marriott
has Cash and Points. My dad-- my parents are retired. I love-- my parents have
done so much for me. So I actually did a
Marriott Cash and Points where I got a week
at the JW Cannes, and I was there for the
Cannes Film Festival. It was, like, $2,000 a
night, but a beautiful room. And my dad has the
same name as me. So I transferred the miles
portion into his name, so he got 110,000 South--
or 120,000 Southwest and the Companion
Pass for two years. So him and my mom have
been maximizing that, and they had the points. So it was amazing. Once again, people
think Marriott points aren't worth that much. But when you can get
the Southwest Companion ticket and seven nights
at a JW for a total of, like, 300,000 or whatever-- CLIFF REDEKER: Money well spent. BRIAN KELLY: I blogged about it. You can just Google the points
guy JW Cannes companion pass. CLIFF REDEKER: Cool. And then the last
question, what do you hope to accomplish
by this time next year? BRIAN KELLY: By
this time next year, I think that figuring out
the charity angle for me is amazing, and to do more. We're actually going to expand
PeaceJam in West Africa. If there's one
region of the world I think that needs some
focus on education-- so I'm actually going with
Leymah Gbowee to Liberia to do more education there. So expanding that in
West Africa I think would be a big one for me. And just-- we're
growing the team. We're hiring a head
of social media. Just continuing and having
fun at what we're doing. CLIFF REDEKER: All right. Well, and of course, there
is the book coming out. So perhaps an Authors
at Google in the future. BRIAN KELLY: I wish
I could promote it, but it's still,
like, 18 months out. CLIFF REDEKER: All right. So I wanted to thank
you all for tuning in. You can visit Brian
at thepointsguy.com, @thepointsguy, Instagram,
Facebook, the whole deal. And we look forward to
seeing where you travel next. I believe you have
a flight to catch. BRIAN KELLY: I do have
a flight to catch. And I just want to say
thank you to Google. I mean, Google is the reason
why The Points Guy blew up in the way that it did. Organically, a friend
set me up, SEO. I never knew what that was
when I started blogging six years ago last month. But Google has really
changed my life. So it's a pleasure
for me to be here. And I do have a
flight to catch, but I have a little bit of time. So if you want to come
say hi if you're a reader, I would be happy
to meet you all. CLIFF REDEKER: All right. Cool. Well, thank you
very much, Brian. Thanks for speaking. [APPLAUSE] Awesome.
