The Point: China is not the enemy, corporate greed is

[Music] many Americans point their finger in the wrong direction when they blame China for their economic troubles the real culprit is corporate greed says Jeffrey Sachs a leading US economist who joined me from New York City to explain why then we commemorate the world day to combat desertification and drought how does Chinese expertise come into play in fighting a certification in West Africa welcome to the point and opinion show coming to you from Beijing Russia China is not an enemy says Jeffrey Sachs one of America's leading economists and if the US were to curb China's growth that could prove disastrous for the u.s. itself in a recent commentary professor Sachs blames corporate greed instead of China for America's economic problems he had previously accused the Trump administration of so-called gangster tactics against the Chinese silicon's giant Huawei although the backlash to that critique led him to close his Twitter account how exactly could slowing China's growth harmed the US and the world beyond ideally what sure to relations between the world's two largest economies look like I was joined from New York City by Professor Jeffrey Sachs himself who's director of the Center for sustainable development at Columbia University I started by asking him why he believes China is not the source of the USA's economic problems the economic relationship of China and the United States is very important it's been growing and it's been mutually beneficial for both countries and for the world the problem is however that inequality in the United States has been rising over time and partly the trade with China is is a factor in that in that trade with China has raised profits of many American business but it probably has lowered wages or at least stopped wave increases in many sectors that compete with Chinese goods so we have had more inequality and also rising overall income my view is that is standard in trade we should keep open trade but also have more redistribution of income within the United States the rich have been very successful at resisting taxes indeed they have been advocating and lobbying repeatedly for tax cuts for the rich and therefore the government has not been in a position to help those who have been disadvantaged by trade so there is a growing pressure against trade but this is misguided the pressure should be for redistribution from winners to losers and thereby everybody would benefit from an open trading system this is what I've been arguing mm-hmm well Chinese President Xi Jinping said mostly in saint-petersburg that as the global economy changes there will always be those who benefit and those who miss out from the globalization trend is an issue of distribution that some people's interests are harmed but he says we cannot stop eating for fear of choking meaning we should not stop globalizing for fear of being let's say made even more disadvantaged by the side effects of globalization do you agree with his theory that we should completely to globalize in order to solve the problem especially for the United States namely the income inequality will such problem be solved in the course of greater globalization or does America need to retreat there are at least three benefits of globalization that are extremely important one is that a global economy adds to efficiency and overall wealth in the world we've definitely had more global economic growth as a result of China's integration into the world system and as a result of an open trading system by and large so there are benefits of globalization that are widely shared second globalization is extremely important because we have a lot that we need to cooperate on in other words not only trade but we have to cooperate on issues like stopping a human-induced climate change reducing pollution protecting the natural environment and globalization is an invitation for cooperation China the United States and Europe need to be cooperating on solving major global challenges the third big reason for globalization is that if we retreat into spheres of influence and clashes we will have much more chance of dangerous conflict which is terrifying completely unnecessary there are even some people talking about a new cold war between the US and China this is a an awful thought we need peace we need cooperation we need to understand that we are in a mutually beneficial relationship when we have openness when we have peaceful trade when we're trying to solve global problems together the last thing in the world we need is a cold war so President Xi is just right on this point we need to pursue globalization we need redistribution within our own countries to keep inequalities reduce and we should be cooperating globally to help those parts of the world that are left behind and also to solve these massive global challenges like climate change that require all of us to be working together how can you persuade the American business circle American workers that it's globalization will not mean lose for them or for one side well of course there is competition in specific markets the best way to ensure that the competition is viewed as fair is that we operate according to shared rules of the game that's why we have a World Trade Organization there are lots of complaints on both sides so I think if we focus on keeping a rule-based system of putting our complaints through a rule-based adjudication this is really important transparency is important a connection is academic and scientifically technologically between our countries is important it's so easy of for one side to just accuse the other the other side to make accusations in return and soon enough we could face a terrible problem of threats and counter threats and a spiral of distrust this is what really makes me afraid because I know how important a good open peaceful relations between the two countries are these are the two largest economies of the world we do not want today a descent into massive distrust and conflict but unfortunately that's the way things are heading right now in part because of the provocations in recent months hmm what do you think is the source of this great this deterioration of mutual trust and you're talking about you being afraid actually among the American general public I think there is also this fear potential fear factor of in the not-so-distant future when China becomes even more stronger or over overtakes the United States as the world's largest economy China is going to do this and that and you know be a hegemon and and stuff like that where do you think all of this is coming from well I I do think that the US has been in the habit of mind for the last 75 years more or less that it runs the world and the u.s. is very rich very powerful a technological leader and the idea of u.s. foreign policy since world war ii has been that the US should be the predominant power in the world the problem is that China is a big productive successful growing economy it's got a population that is more than four times the United States population and this means that is China gains technological advancement and gains prowess with the growing economy of course China is going to become roughly the same size as the US or even larger by one measure using international prices the Chinese economy is already larger than US economy by another metric using market prices that the Chinese economy is smaller than the US but growing in fact of course in per-person terms China remains still a developing country lagging rather far behind the US and Europe skill in per capita income but it's growing and gaining technological mastery well this is making a lot of American politicians and policy makers and businesses very nervous hey how can China be so big all of a sudden how can China be a rival to the United States and so forth but these are facts of life that I think we should work towards mutual understanding and welcoming the rise of China's economy has been a huge benefit for the Chinese people and for the world economy as a large in fact and China will continue to develop and many of China's successful technologies are a huge benefit for the world to come to mind trying to developed the most effective cure for malaria won a Nobel Prize for that and it saves millions of lives with this Chinese discovered China's photovoltaic or solar panel have come down and priced so much that suddenly we have a clear path to climate safety by tapping large-scale solar power I use these examples to show that these are mutual gains to the world but there's a lot of fear factor politics as we do in the United States right now fear can easily dominate rationality oh yeah on the other hand President Donald Trump do talk it does talk about bringing manufacturing back to the United States which is a very important pillar of the economy and over the past few decades the US economy has been the u.s. manufacturing has been effectively hollowed out you have a very strong capital market but you don't have this kind of manufacturing which is you know the backbone of any of any economy so given the current circumstances given that Chinese wages are still lower and wages in other parts of the Asia for instance or in Africa are still considerably lower that manufacturing is probably unlikely to go back to the United States in the conventional way what would be your suggestion than in the sense well the fact of the matter is US manufacturing in many areas remained strong but the number of jobs has gone down considerably from a peak of around 90 million jobs to currently around a 12 million or so those jobs are not coming back in significant numbers and most of them were not lost to offshoring to China or to Mexico or other places most of them are the result of automation and rising productivity it's true in China to a man you factory jobs are not the way of the future service economy is where most of the jobs will be over time because automation smart systems robotics is already replacing so many jobs and that trend is going to continue again this is a matter of national policies to help make sure that workforces are well educated of well trained for the skills that are needed rather than trying to protect jobs that are made obsolete by changes in the structure of the world economy yeah most of America's job lost by fire is not due to shifts of jobs to China though some of those jobs are but as you mentioned those jobs are not coming back and any significant number but it was politically convenient for Donald Trump to campaign on the idea that he'll bring those jobs back it's naive it's not good economics but it did work politically yeah finally you say that the conflict that China and the United States are seen at this moment if without any greater wisdom could lead to utter disaster for all firs to economically than Geo politically and militarily so if you would like to give a piece of advise of greater wisdom to the Chinese side what would you say well I think China of course should first and foremost abide by and defend the multilateral system we have WTO we have a rule-based system I think China should be a strong pillar of that system it should urge countries that have issues with China let's negotiate within the context of the WTO and especially as there are new sectors rising the digital economy new forms of intellectual property it's even more important that we have these multilateral negotiations under a rule-based system I think that China should absolutely offer transparency it should demand a reciprocity of that transparency on the other side a budget it should appeal to the United States and to global opinion for strengthening multilateralism not retreating from the globalization because that is important for all and I think on many of China's important multilateral initiatives most importantly the belt and road initiative which involves dozens and dozens of countries after all it would behoove China to show great global leadership on sustainable development on cleaning up the pollution I'm shifting to renewable energy on showing that China is a leader of multilateralism a leader of sustainable development a promoter of rule-based trade and I think the China's voice for that kind of Reason calm and a global effort for sustainable development of multilateralism is essential all right well I hope that China does keep these points in mind of course I think it is a little early for China to talk about any global leadership but we have to work towards that goal at least in spirit maybe if it if I may if I may say so it's not that we need a hegemon we don't and there can't actually be a hegemon anymore China will not be a hegemon but the United States Sowell thinks it maybe is not a hegemon we need global cooperation not hedge funds so when I talk about China and multilateralism and sustainable development I'm not talking about China leading the world I'm talking about China being a strong example of partnership in the world and I think that this is the lesson the United States needs to learn as well that the days when one country would be the hegemon over others are passe we are in an era where cooperation among many powerful regions and many interacting regions is essential a non hegemonic rule world that is linked together through global rules and a commitment to the United Nations and a commitment to sustainable development that was my interview with Professor Jeffrey Sachs director of the Center for sustainable development at Columbia University

Channel: CGTN

Views: 94,447

Keywords: CCTV, CGTN, CCTVNews, News, ChinaNews, WorldNews, China, corporate, US, JeffreySachs, economic, greed

Id: rVRp2X9QEtY

Length: 18min 29sec (1109 seconds)

Published: Tue Jun 18 2019