The Most Corrupt Cop of All Time | Michael Dowd

[Music] hello world michael dowd is the dirtiest cop in the history of new york city in the 80s michael patrolled the streets of one of the toughest precincts in brooklyn he also headed a ruthless criminal network that stole money and drugs ultimately resulting in new york's biggest corruption scandal ever mike was the subject of the explosive true crime saga the 7-5 where he tells all and relives his days as a mobster with a badge mike served 12 years in prison for his activities during that time and is widely considered one of the most corrupt cops of all time without further ado please welcome the marvelous michael dowd you fell in love with me hopefully over joe rogan is that how you guys met really you get did you get did you get a lot of attention uh a lot of attention from the females after your joe rogan podcast um two minutes too much once too many goddamn don't you that's funny man yeah i spent the last two hours watching uh your documentary the 7-5 and that was i was blown away by that man because that was before my time i was born the year and i was born in 1987. oh okay so yeah so that was that was quite the eye-opening film to see especially by that guy tiller tiller russell's he's done a lot of big projects like since then since then yeah that was that one of his first no he had uh a couple of you know for him dynamic but they didn't hit it you know what i mean and then i told him i'll change your career just sit down and listen to me for people out there who don't know who don't know who you are or aren't familiar with your story give me like a brief background or like a brief summary of where you came from and i'm here because of the 7.5 documentary you know the character in it who's me the main character of the documentary called the 75 which aired on netflix for about three years and was picked up by ifc early on uh they owned it and um i think they have it again still now back in their control but i was a cop in brooklyn in 1980s uh when the crack epidemic broke out it broke out everywhere and broke out on us too on the police force we had no idea what we were dealing with and uh so the era that i was a police officer is 82 to 92 and eventually get arrested and then the story goes ten years yeah what was it like being a cop in new york before the before the crack academy right and after yeah so it was a very uh eerie time because when before crack hit you had the aids epidemic hit right so we went from one epidemic to another now we're in another one today right we're in this [ __ ] golden gate right so as a front-line cop we dealt with a lot of these issues in the street first before society as a whole dealt with it you know and you sort of learned as you were going how to handle things and uh so it was a thrilling time to say the least i mean you know nerve wracking you you you grew up quick right so uh you went in there as a 21 year old young man sort of and then you you know in in six months you've seen more than your mom and dad have seen in their life combined unless they were soldiers and stuff like that you were 21 when you when you joined the police force right what made you want to join the police police force it seemed the documentary conveyed that it was like a lot of young guys who had no direction right and they were just like looking for something to do yeah well it wasn't like there wasn't anything to do it was more like looking for leadership looking for guidance you know you know guys in their 20s are fairly immature men don't mature tiller about 60 right some of us still were 65. well i'm 60 now and she still she's telling me i'm still not mature so but i'm working on it yeah um yeah so you had a bunch of young guys you know what it was like it was like a frat house with guns how's that wow that was great it was like a [ __ ] freak who wouldn't have loved it it was a [ __ ] pissa but the honest thing is it was dangerous and and you know so we can laugh about certain things because it's past you know but the unfortunate thing is that we all took our job for granted and didn't really appreciate our position you know like when you're a soldier you go to war you're only fighting for the guy next to you to come home and then as you look back on what you accomplished you know from what i'm told it's the same thing as being a police officer when you're in there in the in the battle you're battling for the guy next to you and yourself and you don't realize the impact you have on society and the city and the people in general you know and that's a big subject right but everybody think everybody's little right we're only one little wheel in the big cog you know yeah you were a big part of history that was a huge that was a major part in american history that that little area right there in new york that time that time frame in new york yeah in new york city yeah it it it sort of had tentacles into the rest of society for years to come right and like a whole generation of people were decimated by this including law enforcement right because if you look back and i don't know if you had the time to research during that time police departments were devastated by the crack and the money from crack you know inter by their by choices bad choices that guys made because they were exposed to such i mean when you're making 17 nine a year and the guy that you pulled over has got 17 nine in his pocket you know yeah with no [ __ ] job you know and he's 16 and you're like and no license for the call but he's got a brand new one you know it's just you say to yourself what the [ __ ] am i doing like it's a reality check what makes sense so uh yeah you know of course we're supposed to do the right thing but we don't always you know and that's where the that's where the 51 good guy or 50 49 bad guy and some days they switch sides dude it's crazy that you survived 10 years doing that through that period in new york city i mean don't you think don't you ever like be like how the [ __ ] am i still alive well i'll give you an example how many years you did 12 years in prison right yeah so i did like 10 with the city and 12 with the feds anyway but um so i should get benching right um this episode of the podcast is brought to you by lucy lucy nicotine is a company founded by caltech scientists and former smokers looking for a better cleaner nicotine alternative finally tobacco alternatives that don't suck researched and developed for three years to be made for people not patients lucy has created nicotine gum with four milligrams of nicotine that comes in three flavors wintergreen cinnamon and pomegranate lucy also has lozenges with four milligrams of nicotine that come in three flavors cherry ice citrus and mint lucy lozenges and gums are fsa and hsa eligible so you can use your fsa cards to purchase lucy now and it's convenient and discreet lucy products can be enjoyed anywhere on flights at work on the go or even at the gym we just got the hat rack to quit his vape pen and he's chewing lucy and he loves the superior taste of the wintergreen flavor it's 20 21 so get rid of your cigarettes unplug your vape throw out your dip and get some lucy nicotine gum or lozenges this is the real deal a subscription to lucy comes directly to your door each month so it's simple and you don't have to leave your house because lucy has delivery down concrete listeners and subscribers can go to lucy.co and use the promo code concrete to get 20 off all products for your first order that's l-u-c-y-c-o and use the promo code concrete at checkout k-o-n-c-r-e-t-e also i have to read this disclaimer warning this product contains nicotine derived from tobacco nicotine is an addictive chemical that's lucy.co and be sure to use the promo code concrete k-o-n-c-r-e-t-e back to the show so i looked at it like so the question was how do we survive i bought life insurance like so how many men do you know like 23 and 24 years old that have like a million dollar life coverage back then so i had two policies that were over worth over a million dollars in case i died so yeah so and double indemnity was great because if i i always hope that if i did die i died by an accident because that gave you double indemnity right so then your family would be covered double that was something a lot of the police officers did yeah because it was crazy and especially guys that were doing the sort of things that i was involved in you know i mean i hung out with the dominican drug kingpin you know so yeah one day you could be you know caviar and champagne the next day it could be shootout you know you didn't know what was coming from one day to the next and i'm not saying that there was i was involved in shootouts per se although some sketchy things but but the reality is it could have been it could have been so i i i always was like worried about you know so one of the reasons i stayed in the police force through all this was because i had a child and like how do you raise a child as a kingpin drug dealer it's not like you don't put that on the resume what does your daddy do you know so uh because at some point i made a decision to really not care any longer about being a police officer and that was when i you know if you see the documentary i drove the corvette up to the to the lieutenant's parking spot and said [ __ ] you because i'm done like can you catch me please because i just really should i think i'm gonna be better at that than at being a police officer even though i i think i was a damn good cop you know as far as being able to do the police work you know i was slick i became slick i learned the street i learned the moves of people yeah i learned to know that guy over there he's either got a gun or he's got he's holding some dope on him just by the walk right and and and the movement of the head i mean it's just it's just you just know where a lot of guys in the police force back then numb to it like like numb to be able to reading body language or reading somebody like a real like a real new york a real hustler in new york you feel like that's someone who can get along with anybody that's someone who could talk to anybody and do a deal with somebody like me like you exactly exactly and that's something in uniform right right i mean that seems like that's pretty [ __ ] crazy it's super valuable especially if you're a cop and you're actually doing your job and you and you're you know you're aware of this skill that you have did the other guys in the police force have this skill or were they just sort of like um coming to work and well so there was listen so i guess i alluded it to partially before in the 80s there were numerous like hundreds of police officers arrested hundreds i i i it comes close to a thousand police officers were arrested from 1990 1985 when crack really started to hit to 1992 close to a thousand cops were arrested for being involved in drugs but of course you know i was the i was the picture of the of the you know the the white lily long island guy that that worked in the brooklyn police precinct and you know he was purveyor of evil against the poor people in the ghetto the [ __ ] out of here the [ __ ] they they trained me for christ's sake right right no i mean what you did i mean well first of all in the beginning like throughout the documentary i love how the court testimony is weaved throughout the whole thing it's funny how people love that and that's great you know what because i'm not a film guy so that almost bothered me to see it but i can see why every single person that i've had an interview with which is probably about 100 by now um have always said exactly that so the backbone of the whole thing it's great it's weaved through the through the whole thing and the best part about it to me at least was how matter-of-fact and straightforward and honest you were about everything like it's just you straight up just telling them yes i did this and this like yeah well you know what so so the comment on that is that so like people ask what was that like you know why were you so deadpan honest you know i had like 30 federal prosecutors sitting in the [ __ ] room looking to see me [ __ ] up okay that's number one so if i told anything incorrect or lied or obfuscated i could be charged with it and on the other side was i've already been arrested and charged with you know i mean but what people don't know when we do these interviews is that i was suspected for nine murders in brooklyn okay i didn't do any but the new york post ran with the story that they're looking for nine bodies to attach to me and the last thing on my mind that i'm worried about is a couple hundred kilos or whatever [ __ ] you know 200 000 in cash at this point i'm still fighting in my head that they're suspecting me for being involved in nine murders and it was like this is nothing compared to what these people are talking about so so yeah so so from that perspective you can understand why it was so easy for you to say yeah i did hundreds of crimes i actually lied i did thousands so and the only reason i didn't say thousands because my father was in the [ __ ] audience behind me you know watching me testify so i hope they don't i hope i don't get a federal sentencing enhancement for not telling the complete truth i mean i felt for you in that documentary you know making the small amount of money that you were making being a police officer in new york and seeing like you just said seeing all these guys that you were busting that had you know tens of thousands of dollars on them if i was in your shoes i probably would have done the same [ __ ] thing i would have been hustling with them stealing money from them and running around galavant snorting coke yeah yeah banging [ __ ] yeah yeah yeah that's what that listen it was that way so but i had i was the face of it right so everybody has to be the full guy and i don't lessen my responsibility by saying that i take full responsibility for what i did but you know but most guys got terminated back then they'd get terminated but my situation was i got away with it so long that they were pissed and then more so that suffolk ended up catching me on a wire to my partner's ex partner's house kenny harrell that's the guy who ratted on yeah he put a wire on later but his phones were tapped and then that's how they got to me he didn't know his phones were tapped but i knew his phone was tapped i said you [ __ ] tapped and he goes what are you talking about i haven't seen you in six four months i said the day i show up at your house there's surveillance on it now what happened to him he never in he never even did a day in jail or prison yeah no he i mean when the first arrest you know when they hold you over he did that and he got bail and went home you know but then they gave him they gave him the plea they gave him the plea option to walk cooperate walk free cooperate against him and we'll go to the judge and ask him to give you uh zero and you know so it was up to the judge obviously did you ever see him after that happened yeah we made the documentary together really yeah what was it like being in the same room with him after um so he so it goes down like this they asked me if to do it with if he if they would so he i wasn't going to let him be part of the documentary okay because i i had a little animosity i would think you know the guy went and lived his life and had a you know good life for himself kept his pension that i got him you know he never sent the note saying hey listen i'm sorry good luck you know when you get out here you know you know i'll take you and your family on a trip to [ __ ] spain whatever you know nothing no no like listen i'm sorry i did what i did but and it's not even what he did it's it's just how he did it you know um he was offered this plea agreement and and all he had to do was take a plea but what he did was he encouraged me to do further crimes while out on bail and and put this wire on and he tried to encourage me to talk about my family my brothers my cousins my aunts and uncles like he tried to get a whole basket full of [ __ ] to give to the feds you know when the reality is he did exactly what i did you know of course i i would take i would be i'd be lying if i didn't say i was the instigator but you know i mean you're a [ __ ] grown man you make your own mind up you know and you know well he had all he had to say was no and it would have been done what was it like though when you saw him for the first time after you did 12 years of prayer so i told i've yeah so i told the director tila russell i said there's only one way this is going to happen i said i want you and your film crew at the precinct and i want you to tell him to meet you at the precinct not me meet you guys at the precinct you want to take a picture of him in front of the 7-5 precinct so uh sure enough at 1201 high noon whatever the [ __ ] you want to call it you know so he come he came down the block and he turned in front of the precinct and i was standing next to the mailbox and he came over and i just looked at him i said he goes oh he [ __ ] turned white so i came over and i gave him a hug i said hey you know we're home it's over you know uh how you doing you know really yeah yeah i mean we're gonna do and at this point you know we needed them for the documentary in some respects you know and uh and at that point you know you miss your old friend you know even though you know it's like a bad relationship you know after time goes by you know you forgive each other you know hey listen we were young we made mistakes you know so it's it's a similar feeling the only thing about it is is it i would like to have seen some humility or some you know some some feeling of compassion for what i had to go through you know so people but people justify what they do to others by blaming you for what they had to go through right so you know his life was torturous you know he got a three-quarters disability pension and moved to passaic pasco county here in hudson or something like that or the hill what's the hill spring hill you know oh really yeah so so like you know yeah and he had to live with that guilt too i'm sure well so so yeah so to leave that alleviate that guilt i said listen you know i must not have been easy on you he and so you know what he says to me i got him in my car he says to me i'm not i'm gonna tell you the truth mike i didn't lose a minute of sleep over this i almost wanted to [ __ ] kill him he's in my car i'm driving he says i'm not gonna lie to you i didn't lose a minute sleep over this you know cause first of all people don't know that his name was scummer okay so everybody has like a little nickname mine was mikey d whatever they had some other name for me dude doc they'd a couple names for me and uh his name was scummer so i said to him one day when i was working with him why do they call you scummer he goes i'm a scumbag i said oh okay i get it so that he's no like before i became his partner he was known as the scummer you know so he was a scumbag and that's who he is so he's true true to his word true to his name that he earned uh when i said to him you know kenny if you just if i felt as though you you had some compassion i mean 12 years i kissed bricks i i kissed cement block walls i'd wake up dreaming kids on a brick you know yeah that happens yeah i don't know if i know why that happened i don't know they're [ __ ] in prison kissing brick walls i mean it happens you know and he won't kiss another dude well thankfully you know so if in his case he he'd turn over and kiss his wife a [ __ ] you know and i'm kissing bricks for 12 years so like and i got two kids that that grew up without a dad and you know so so so so you don't have to feel bad for me for that but you should have some compassion right say listen it must have been diff not like not a [ __ ] like like like wind going through an empty [ __ ] hole in your head right through the outside you know i'm like holy [ __ ] wow so it was a little bit disappointing in that respect but one of the things that i liked about the meeting was i was in control he tried to be but i was in control and he would say something and i'd say that's the way you remember it that's not the way it's that's not the facts you know he says why is it the way you say it's right and the way i say it's not right i said for 12 and a half years i sat in a [ __ ] prison cell recalling what i did and what you did and for that twelve and a half years you were [ __ ] your old lady and raising kids and working so who who do you think would have a better clearer memory of those days right you or me did you spend that most of that time most of the 12 years reflecting on everything that you did and i would say a good portion of it you know so uh it was more so that you know and i i i tried i tried to like tabulate it and and document it i've written it down 100 times and started it and stopped and started and stopped in fact i'm still trying to get it started and stopped my life rights are owned by one of these uh you know organizations in hollywood and and they still haven't been able to write the screenplay how long has it been since you've said you've sold on the life rights or options this is my third [ __ ] time so you know it just keeps happening you know and they still keep they can't get the screenplay so i told them if you come sit with me you'll get it and like like hello you want the story i i gave you an award-winning documentary that's run for three [ __ ] years on netflix you think you sit with me i'll give you the movie right i'll give it to you i can give it to you today if you want to sit down you and me i'll write the [ __ ] i'll tell you right i can't write well i mean i've talked to texas i've been talking to my phone now yeah for about uh about eight days i've spoken to my phone for an hour a day and i've got 86 [ __ ] vignettes where you would put the the scenes together yeah i could tell so i could tell from the text you sent me earlier that you were just talking into your phone yeah because it was illiterate right it was new yorkies yeah you figured it out yeah i know how you guys are [ __ ] crazy i love the part of the documentary where you said that uh you took from one of your first busts or one of your first uh you basically robbed a drug dealer when you went to his house you saw the big giant bag of uh of marijuana and then you found a couple of guns and some and some you said you took that money and you went and bought a condo in myrtle beach that was that was the cocaine oh that was noriega's cocaine hmm yeah that was manny noriega's cocaine that's what we bought the common the whis so you you sold us cocaine yeah where did you sell the cocaine at i don't remember i gave it to somebody to sell i don't like i didn't hit the street and sell it right right right i gave it to my pawn he gave it to him oh he gave it to the con ed guy guy who wrote rand khan some guy was working in con ed they had a good connecting con ed oh my god it was the best peruvian [ __ ] pink flake you ever saw in your life that's insane i came in i bought the condo with that money that was noriega's cocaine really yeah and how much was uh how much was the price of cocaine per kilo 28 000 28 000 then but it consists consistently went down it ended up down about 11 000 when i got 88 89. and it just constantly went down didn't fluctuate was it like bitcoin when it goes up and down no no it would it would eventually go up which is why we ended up getting arrested really how how does how does that make so so cocaine went from 11 000 and it worked its way up to 15 000 a kilo and it was steady and then what happened was it went from 1705 to 34 overnight because it was easter holiday and colombians are very religious you know so they don't ship cocaine around easter they they just you know they they cut their [ __ ] movement back and there was a shortage and maybe a couple of big busts happened so the cocaine price doubled so at that very week that it doubled kenny and i got into our own little supply business and it created more conversation and we needed to recruit a few people to put extra money up and that's when the whole story that people don't really know the whole story is four other cops in the 73rd precinct got involved and put their money up because kenny's a cheap [ __ ] instead of coming up with half the money like i did he had to go recruit three or four guys for 2500 each it's just just the way it it is so yeah what do you think what what is your opinion on like all of the stuff you see online today nowadays everybody has a phone you all you see is like shootings with kids getting shot everywhere and all the stuff with the guy got who just got murdered george floyd and like all all the stuff that's going on with police brutality in the news today and compared to what it was like when you were running the streets of new york what is your this is [ __ ] disneyland what do you mean by that this is disneyland compared to what it was back then right yeah this is a [ __ ] joke there's no brutality out there today and if there is it seems like most of the time it's captured on there's somebody with a phone who's filming it yeah you see every [ __ ] incident today back then there was one every three minutes and you know i spent the last two weeks with a bunch of rap guys i can't repeat i don't know names i was with these bunch of rappers and they were all from in my era you know i was chasing them down the street because they were selling crackers and rapping songs on weekends you know and then so but half these guys i ended up running into and uh they were like it was so much better back in the 80s and 90s today [ __ ] it's crazy out there you know because they got their beating they got their money taken they went home right and they could keep running their business they could keep doing their [ __ ] thing you know this is them this is them telling me i'm the cop in the room we're doing a podcast with a bunch of guys smoking ganja over my head and [ __ ] running around you know blood clot [ __ ] and and and and this is how they this is how they uh they're telling me jesus it was so much better you guys were way better back then today everybody gets locked up for nothing you know so i mean this is this is the guys who took beatens all their life but they but they were out the next day and they were living a life and they weren't telling on the police and the police weren't telling on them it was just it was a whole different society back then you know the 80s destroyed a lot of people's lives because people learned how to survive in it or they didn't so when you walk me through like what it would be like like a day in the life of a police officer in the area that you were working and like a day not in just any police officer's life but your life like how what was like the percentage of crime organized crime you were participating in and like the percentage of actual police work you were doing okay so i guess there's two different ways to describe it so there were times when i was just as an ordinary patrolman which is what i was most of my career um i would have two different i had two different approaches in the beginning i was like a glutton you know i would uh every job that came over as a drug run i would go on it and and it was a 50 of them a day you know so you'd call them 50 different drug calls a day so not everyone did you rob at because you know these guys got slick too they decided to get robbed you know and then sometimes you would take it or because so here's the deal the police department didn't want you making drug arrests okay so start with that so now you're a police officer in a crack infested neighborhood and you're getting called to 30 40 50 drug runs a day if you're not on one you're backing up on one you know so whatever so the point is and we backed each other up out there pretty well because any minute guns started flying and bullets started flying out there and that was and it was a violent neighborhood there was violence every day i mean they probably took we probably averaged five guns a day taken off the street in one precinct alone maybe more all right so and we averaged about a homicide every day and a half so and usually it takes 10 shootings to get a one homicide you know maybe eight to ten eight to ten shootings is one homicide so you're talking about twenty five hundred shootings in my precinct and a hundred murders you know so in that ballpark you know my numbers are up right now but in that range how many how many people were you arresting none you were never you never arrested anybody i made 43 arrests in 10 years that's it yeah i made 12 i made 36 of them in one year 36 of it 36 felony arrests in one year yeah and then after that i was done and after that for the rest of year for the remaining nine years it was like 10 more yeah maybe less i don't know yeah that's wild that was done i've i've apparent i've done i was you're getting trouble making arrests so i found out another way to make money making arrests was a big money maker you know every time you make an arrest you usually get overtime right so a comp goes from making at that time i guess i was making well if i say 23 an hour i went up to making 36 miles an hour so and most of the rest work is paperwork and drudge work but it's you know paperwork it's court appearance it's it's sitting the da's office it's transporting a prisoner so you know now your body's by the end of this your buddies you hate each other by the end of this because you're you're with this guy in the next 16 hours okay you and your prisoner really you're hanging out for the next 16 hours yeah together so if you make an arrest you're basically just [ __ ] around now you're with your pal wow you went from [ __ ] running somebody down knocking him over head to giving him a hug and buying him a beer that seems like a pain in the ass seems like a waste of time why i mean why do they call why does it come from that's how it was i'm telling you how it was and it's not necessarily that way but i'm hearing i'm hearing today that it's sort of back to that again really because the volume of arrests and the backlogs in the system and you know and then the no bail because the guys they don't they don't post bail they're back out and they get arrested some guys got arrested seven times in three days in three days you know i mean back out into in four hours so i mean so from what i understand it's really out of control right now but i'm talking about from my experience that's what it was so an arrest equals money so if you don't make it arrests you know i found other ways to make money what was it like so the first time you started working for there there was the one guy who worked in this but what we're overlooking is the fact that the police department didn't want you making drug arrests and you became the armed security for the drug dealers make sense what do you mean why didn't they want you making drug arrests because of cost money interesting they're only worried about money it's a city it's a municipal organization they're worried about money huh so every time i made a drug arrest for a crack dealer or a marijuana dealer at the time or a heroin dealer at the time i took myself off the street i made 17 hours overtime i put one guy in front of a judge the guy went in from the judge he got bailed out you know for you know a day later and the cycle repeats itself so at the end of at the end of the week i could make i could have made five drug arrests every you know one a day because once you once you make one you're off the street you get it right so they only make the arrest at the end of shift because then you get overtime the whole the whole run okay so what did they want you doing if they didn't want you making drug arrests just be visible just to be visible be visible so that the homicides would stay down and summonses okay and make sure you write your book summons yeah so i used to write him to benjamin wood he was the commissioner at the time and when did all this change when did this i mean at some point there was a a huge push to get everyone that was dealing crack or coke off the streets right yeah so um so there was an error there was a time when they executed a cop eddie burns uh the drug organization in queens uh executed the cop uh by um he was guarding um a witness's house and i could be wrong on the year it was either 86 or 88 i don't remember quite but so on the back of that the pd and the feds teamed up and they put a joint task force together and went seriously after the crack organizations in queens specifically it was it was odd though because they actually went after the crack organization in queens but not those in brooklyn or manhattan or the bronx you know because because they executed this young cop who was sitting there gotten the witness um so that was where the push came from and what happened was the fed stepped in and there's new laws that they're all complaining about that joe biden put in place back in the 80s and 90s those laws kicked in and the feds began to enjoin arrests by city pd so the city pd and the federal the federal offices worked together so that they would take them from city prisons to federal prisons so that began to i mean when i hit the federal prison system in 92 there was 46 000 inmates when i left in 2004 there was a 190 or 185 thousand inmates so the population like quadrupled while i was in the system and most of those people that came in were young black ghetto crack dealers really yeah probably a hundred thousand all arrested for crack for a crack just for possession was there anything like that no no no no listen listen no one in there is there for no one's in there for the first fail to sail a crack okay right no one's in there for that in fact they're not in there for the tenth sailor crack what they're in there for is crack and violence so they would say oh we gotta let them all out good luck you know i mean you know and i'm not saying everyone don't i'm just giving you a blanket example you know and then there's guys in there that sold one kilo of crack to one undercover and they got life you know 22 years old they got life you know right set up you know yeah never saw the kilo in his life you know but i i they gave him a kilo to sell to you wait a minute this is both feds on both sides here yeah entrapment right it's just it doesn't work in a drug case that's so [ __ ] up yeah well so what were you what what did you feel like when you first started actually working for like the head of one of these drug organizations like you you were working for these drug empires based out of new york right and uh and you were a cop on duty like was there like a moment like a shift for you like a moral shift where you're just like [ __ ] it yeah so so i was under investigation already as a young cop for shaking down people and so my career took some path where it was clear that they were on to me and were trying to push me out and at what point was this how far in oh i was on i think four and a half years maybe five years at the time and i went to they sent me to an assignment in coney island and uh so coney island was like basically we're shifting you away from where you're at so that you're not in the same position to do the same things so you have to get a new routine and just maybe maybe you'll actually straight up and do your job which i did so when i was in coney island i did my job and i did you know what you're doing corny island you eat hot dogs on [ __ ] nathan's hot dogs on the boardwalk right so that's what i did anyway and then when i came back from that uh the 7-7 had broken it was it was a scandal in the 77th precinct 13 cops were arrested for doing what we would what we were doing so everybody around me left like two went to nassau two went to suffolk two went to florida one just quit went to north carolina another guy got arrested for something stupid you know another guy went to the rehab two guys went to rehabs so i came back from i came back from coney island and there's a lot of stories that i'm just glossing over right now i came back from coney island no one wanted to work with me because anybody that i worked with was gone one guy went to key west and the reason he went to key west so he can run to cuba if he had to get the [ __ ] away i mean and this is for real so new yorkers love florida man yeah yeah well you know it's the second borough so fifth sixth borrow whatever they call it um yeah so so yeah so uh he he was in key west or whatever and uh and and i'm up in new york and i'm the only one holding the bag and like they're looking at me like what the [ __ ] man how are you still on the job so it was difficult to get a partner and then eventually i worked my way in and started to earn the respect of the guys a little bit again and then i ended up working with kenny urel and we became partners so so at that point it turned from being so so what so i took a different approach to everything but i you know i'm watching the monotony here i'm getting tired of not making money you know i'm you know i got high mortgages i got four homes you know condo on the ocean you know i got some bills here you know so so i and i lived okay i had rental incomes and whatnot but the reality was that i was so used to that extra money who you know when you start bringing in an extra 2-3 grand a week just to say hello you know so what happened was i uh met this guy baron perez as you see through the documentary as it works out he was the autosound city guy he he owned an automobile shop where they put the music in and who goes to put these forty thousand thirty thousand dollar music systems in their cars drug dealers because they had a lot of cash to bury and uh so i would be afraid i was a friendly site at his at his shop you know because i pulled the patrol car up he'd put a new benze back then they had benzie boxes i don't know if you guys even know what they are what the [ __ ] it see i know you don't even know what a benzene box is look it up it's look it up yeah what it is is back then they would break your window and then break your dish right ruin your dashboard to take out your radio because the blob punk was a big thing and you guys don't even know he missed this whole thing people would steal your blah punk radio because it was worth 800 whatever the [ __ ] it was i don't know if it was worth 200 it was worth more than what they had in their hand right so back then they began to do these things called a benzene box where you would pull to put the radio in and pull the radio out so when you left your car you would take the radio with you but what happened was most guys would take the radio and put it in their trunk or take the radio and put it under their seat so they'd break your window anyway and go under your seat and get it i lost four okay i lost four of nz boxes and four windows does that wait isn't that the thing where the like the face plate of the radio you could push it and it would come off you could like throw it and you're throwing your backpack or something remember that yeah yeah the dip that's that was the new benzee that was a new benzene that was a new age benzene yeah so yeah so the whole radio came out you know what kind of i mean what kind of an impact did the police force actually have on that part of new york like if were you seeing any changes being made was there any progress was there any kind of like it was the function there's the finger in the hole of the dyke you just were holding the [ __ ] water back and and really the sad thing is the truth of the matter is the cops could have handled it all but we weren't allowed and you see does that it's a repeating theme you know the cops could have handled it all but you know cop's job is to be you know a politician or you know a nice guy you know so the heavy-handed cop would get in trouble like any other time did things thank god they weren't [ __ ] on uh camera back then because there'll be a lot guys 80 of the forces would have went to jail back then okay straight up what do you mean you said you guys if they would have let you you could have fixed it what do you mean by that well because we weren't allowed to make arrests and you know there's ways of [Music] there's ways of convincing people to move on or stop and it was not so being a cop is is not necessarily what people think it is okay so i know you're standing on that corner it's [ __ ] snowing out it's 2 30 in the [ __ ] morning and you're out there with your three friends what are you doing i know what you're doing you know i know what you're doing but i can't do anything do you get it i mean this goes this is how it is so i mean because there's no reason for you about it with your [ __ ] back then they had igloo one of they had the fur around the [ __ ] collar oh yeah and they came out like this i like it all right eskimo they thank you for the word they had the eskimo hats and coats on and they'd be there for the whole they have shifts they had a shift and they change shifts when we change shifts so it was like perfect they they oh wait dude i did a four to twelve yeah i got the four to twelve so you know all right homie listen while i'm out of here when i'm out here nothing i can see you got it boss i mean that's what i would tell them because i would go to the bodega sit down and have a couple cold ones and eat you know was this before or after the pimps were running the streets of new york this was after right that was in the 70s i think that was the 70s yeah oh okay crack took everything over everything because it's very violent and very very lucrative so well crap i mean crack's basically the same thing as coke right it's just it's just cooked it's cooked with some baking soda or something like that yeah i don't know i never made it never tried it you never tried smoking crack really i always said i was like i would like to try it once just because i've seen so many movies about it like what's his name on wall street yeah it won't kill you might lead you out you might end up [ __ ] dick somewhere because you need more watch yourself was it there an nba player who uh who died yeah len bias that changed the world how did it change the world that was before my time right when len baez died he was he was he was drafted by boston celtics right so this is where it becomes interesting boston celtics who's in charge of the boston area kennedy right the kennedys run the boston whole area and martha's vineyard [ __ ] and all that stuff so when len bias smoked on that crack and killed himself he never got a chance to play the best player in you know best player at the time drafted never played one game for the uh boston celtics ted clearly drafted number one number one yeah ted kennedy uh came up with these laws these crack laws and said we need to crack down on the crack laws and these crackers and these crack babies and all this other [ __ ] so he went haywire he put these laws in place which which did a great job i mean five years later after giuliani took over you can walk in manhattan on disneyland you know the 42nd street was clean everything was clean so the crack lords eventually did their job the problem was along the way the crack laws alienated a lot of people and a lot of people got burned by crack itself including myself you know it was part of my demise was the money from crack in the street right and the crack law specifically where basically if you got busted with crack it was way worse of a prison center yeah versus coke right not in the city but in the feds so that's how it became effective ted kennedy was a federal federal um senator senator from from boston area massachusetts so he and joe biden and that crew put together these vicious cracklers to help clean up the cities and it did it's just when it cleaned it up it was they were vacant really joe biden was around back then oh yeah he's still around crazy he's still he's barely hanging on and then when did that start changing didn't didn't obama start trying to roll that back and try to yeah you know what it was uh and so so to his credit he tried but the reality is democrats always considered weak on crime right so if he was able to pull off what he wanted but he wanted everybody to free cause clearly he's still running [ __ ] you don't know that right he's still obama he's running this yes he's running this right now so so what happened was they didn't thought it was goddamn nancy pelosi no no he's running this they didn't want um they didn't want trump to be the the guy who cleaned up their drug mess their drug penalty problems so ev so every time trump wanted to introduce something they would not they wouldn't go for it because they didn't want to think positive on trump so he had he ended up doing executive order to promote you know what he called part in this one part in that one he was pardoning these people and he did change some of the sentencing laws and and what happens is people don't realize is that most sentencing laws they're oppressive sentencing laws but they're designed for a reason they're designed to make you want to tell on me okay and that's what the the that's why the laws were designed they were they were so and every person is given that opportunity at some point usually not all but usually most individuals are given an opportunity to cooperate in kenny's case he cooperated without going to prison he cooperated stayed in the street put a wire on against me and then you know so he won but anyway um so that's why the laws were designed the way they were so they would be very heavy-handed in their sentencing and they would bring so one of the one of the things was they wanted everybody to be arrested that was the federal goal to arrest every person selling drugs that's the best idea they could come up with and and that and that was their approach so if you came to if you got arrested by the feds or city in the fed's joint task force you if you brought in 25 of your best friends you would get a two-year sentence and each one of your friends would cooperate against each other and they'd all get five-year sentences so you'd win get two they'd get five and then they could go home if they didn't cooperate they got 50. so so they all [ __ ] turned on each other yeah and they filled the [ __ ] prisons up and they cleaned the city streets out and then most of those guys came out and they they got the hint you know they they get the hint now if you did one to ten if five repeated you know whatever but the fact is when you sit down for 8-10 years 15-year stretches you know you're just tired you just you know they beat yeah they beat you down and they did that to most of the people and if they and if they didn't straighten their lives out they know what the next they know they were offered a 45 year plan they got off at six right so they know the next time they show up there's no offer you know you're going do you think most of these crimes or most of this violence and everything would be a lot of people say that a lot of this stuff would be fixed if just all this [ __ ] was legal okay so my my thing on drugs laws is this should be none no drugs no just laws yeah the war on drugs was complete [ __ ] it's a disaster yeah it's been a disaster more people have died fighting the war on drugs and people that have died using drugs it's just created billionaires in mexico and colombia yeah right and i i'd like a piece of that [ __ ] money myself okay i'm not gonna lie to you i don't but i'm not you know i'm not allowed so you got your fair share mike okay well that's what they say but i came out broken uh you know really you didn't stash any before you got locked up well you know you don't think you're gonna get locked up until you do yeah that's true no four houses in a condo on the ocean you see a lot of cash laid into them things you didn't bury any cash anywhere a little bit so so what did you actually get charged what was your actual charge was it was it rico yeah i was eventually charged with a rico statue but that would that consumed or subsumed or you know contained the actions uh throughout my career so um so when i walked in they offered me a plea agreement for um 24 to 30 years i said what the [ __ ] this is what you just get it i walk into prison they've been arrested in my life right i was a cop i'm a pretty good kid you know i walked in i was off at a complete for 24 to 30 years and i'm like are they [ __ ] serious like my lawyer's like calm down you know this is just the f is it just the first offer at 30 [ __ ] years i mean who did i kill of course a month later they put a story about me killing nine people but anyway i wish i didn't but um so like can you imagine like you're facing 30 [ __ ] years i'm like what did i do you know i i i took some [ __ ] money at that time i was 31. yeah i took some money from some drug dealers so what the [ __ ] yeah we just exchanged we bought it here but you know what i laugh about it now but it wasn't it wasn't a nice thing that i did i mean you you had one hell of a [ __ ] life and you're what in your heyday you were having you had these drug kingpins paying you what eight grand a week something like that yeah that wasn't enough basically just to tip them off on [ __ ] yeah just basically and half of it i made up because you had to produce right i mean right like make it look like you're actually doing something for them right and one time it worked out that i i saved diaz's organization one day and who is diaz again adam diaz is the dominican guy who was introduced to me by babin perez the auto sound city guy who ran the auto shop where all the drug dealers would go to his shop how big was his organization at that time and what and how what um he probably had 30 men working for him he had four stores uh that he sold out of only one i knew but actually two so so these guys were selling what just coke no they had three different spots he just stole cocaine he saw so he sold four four or five yeah so you go to the grocery so if you see the movie you could come to my store you can get people people can get pampers you can get a kilo you can get anything at my store his bodegas were very successful too you can buy some cheerios yeah but he yeah but he most of his was weighted he distributed mostly weight you know but he had one or two spots because everybody likes you know the lower you go on the number the higher the the the profit margin is so right he had one or two spots that sold eight balls and stuff like that which i didn't know about until if i had known all i if i had known all i found out because when you when you get when you get arrested you get all the documentation from the case i was tied into his case and i got all the documentation from this case you know he was pulling in a hundred thousand a week in profit just in profit if i had [ __ ] known i'd get twenty thousand a week what the [ __ ] something i mean i'm risking my freedom so is that the way most of the coke dealers worked in the city back then is they just basically had a couple grocery stores and they would sell coke out of the back bodegas with away bodegas yeah because you can go in right legitimately work into a business instead of hand the money off at the register you went to the back of the rodeo and handed them a you had a shoebox full of you know 20s or 50s or 100s whatever it was and 15 minutes later down down they had hatches and shoots they had you know like you go to the bank and they they have this thing that sucks i don't know if you yeah the tube the tube yeah they're the same thing in the [ __ ] uh bodega really yeah that's why and everyone was buying like like large amounts well that's that was his that's his thing you know it'd be that's how he sold like the street dealers right oh yeah right yeah so he would he would pick up 100 kilos and sell them in a week and where was he getting the kilos from um so i didn't get that i didn't get that to that part of the routine but from what i hear and what he said he got them from large distributors that were tied to you know uh the big guys uh colombians like the medium cartoons yeah pablo and and stuff like that yeah that guy that guy was pretty interesting the documentary he had a very uh interesting demeanor to him what like there was like so many there was one scenario where uh you guys robbed or somebody robbed a store or something like that and there was two gu there was two guys who robbed somebody else's store you could use his cousin's store his cousin's store or whatever and then uh he sent you guys after after them no we went he sent us to rob his cousin's door because his cousin was robbing him and but weren't taking his business weren't there two guys that at one point in the documentary i remember they're asking him what happened to these two guys that robbed your store and he was like they're not franklin they're not around franklin and coke franklin and coke yeah right yeah they're not around anymore what was the story with those guys i don't know they're not around anymore is that part of the rico actually i don't think so but let's just say yes i don't know they're not around anymore but you were the one who tracked who chased we got them yeah you got them yeah and they're not around anymore i don't know about that part oh okay yep but i was told they're not around anymore okay i mean i i i don't know i don't know but i was told they're not around anymore but i didn't have anything to do with that part of it oh okay i thought no i found them but i so i found somebody that yeah i found them he's over here um got it and you just told him where they were yeah oh i understand yeah they're here no so that guy was making a hundred thousand dollars a week in profit only how much time did he get do you know do you remember i know i know he did eight years initially so and he said he wasn't sure he was tr he said he was charged with money laundering not cocaine oh yeah so i don't know i mean i didn't read his papers but that's what he said and we've spoken to him every couple days do you really yeah what's he doing now he's running a lot of he's are you serious what does that say this the 75 right it's just the mind of brooklyn land of [ __ ] brooklyn's the land of [ __ ] is that well it says welcome to the land the [ __ ] why is it the land of [ __ ] explain that what does that mean okay so in the movie that i remember that turn was used yeah so you know that's why we put that on the uh the t-shirt and the cigar label so is he still in brooklyn she's still new york no he's been deported to dr oh he's deported his family has a tobacco um plantation in dominican republic yeah wow the largest second largest palma palma tobacco and who's the other guy what's his name chino chico chico i mean chickie chickie no the other guy the other guy who had the small little baby cartel uh the small little drug gang the first guy you started oh oh yeah yeah yeah oh gosh yeah yeah he's dead um is he really dead yeah um they killed him his own people killed him oh my trying to think uh what the [ __ ] is his name anyway yeah his name was like chico or something yeah and his uh his gang i can't remember i'm getting old his gang was called the company yeah yeah i pulled him over yeah first day he pulled him over after you found out what hit on me he put a hit on he put a hit on me and how did you how did you find out that he put it on well first of all he put a hit on me because he assured me 700 and um so i i i made it made it known that i wasn't happy about it that he should come up with 700 and he said you know [ __ ] you [Music] i'm not paying you i said okay that's fine and then i put pressure on the store for about three days i would park in front of his store i'd chase his customers i paid another organization another bunch of cops in front of a store for a [ __ ] four or five nights when i wasn't there and chase him and bother all his clients and then all of a sudden my pager goes off 9-1-1 you know get pages back then beepers and uh it's baron's shop and then i said what's up he doesn't usually page me it's 9-1-1 he says uh you got to come see me i said all right i drove in to see you i was on my way to work four to twelve and he said to me uh put a hit on you i said oh and he said uh the [ __ ] is that chico chino chino chino yeah chino put a hit on you and um i said uh i said okay and uh that i turned out my 4-12 shift i had this female partner i think with me and i and i said to her hold on i gotta pull this car over i never saw this car in my life but i knew what his car looked like because i was told so i just took a guess this is his car i hit the lights it was near a store within a block of a store up by norwood norwood and fulton if people anybody listens nor wouldn't fulton by the elevated drain by the station the empty with the staircase comes down i pulled him over uh i said license registration he's reaching like he doesn't know he doesn't know that i'm going to kill him he doesn't know that i want to kill him right now and i'm hoping to see a gun aren't you freaked out this guy's like super [ __ ] violent yeah nuts let's go i'm here so i'm looking in his car and i'm looking to see if he opens his cloud park there's a gun in the car i'm killing him really i'm killing him gonna what would you do guys just said he's gonna put it on you right so i'm killing him and uh so he takes he gives me his life he's like you know hey what's my license registration insurance card i take it from him and i look at him and i throw it in his [ __ ] lap i said you put a [ __ ] hit on me [ __ ] he looks like me oh my heath turned as white as i don't see it as white as a [ __ ] t-shirt and so anyway so i told him you know why don't you get out of the car i'm skinny oh sorry yeah would you a splinter no just my bony elmo um so i said once you get out of the car we'll do it right here you put a [ __ ] hit on me let's do it right here broad daylight you and me i said we'll do a [ __ ] mexican [ __ ] walk off let's go shoot out yeah [ __ ] that okay corral [ __ ] let's go and he's like i said you call the [ __ ] hit off right now or or i'm coming to see you so i gave him a chance and he said all right all right all right i left i got my pay my beep my b pick goes off about 20 minutes later he called up he pulled the head off meanwhile the [ __ ] precinct no one never told me the precinct noodles was hit on me how would they know they got snitches everywhere bro the feds were in that organization somewhere what though and they never [ __ ] told me you remember the in the remember in the movie joe this guy detective joe hall's in the back of a van and they can have the street sweepers yeah well there was a guy in that van that was pointing out all the organizational people because they it was a snitch for them they knew that they put a hit on me and never told me that's [ __ ] up well they didn't want me i guess around that's [ __ ] wild man yeah yeah it's crazy that you at such a young age were able to i mean develop that that street mentality to be able to coexist with these guys and and work with them and make money with them and like even how uh the one guy that that runs the cigar the rosa cigars who was talking about you he was like yeah i could talk to this guy and he was just like me like is that a compliment i could recognize i don't know if that's a compliment yeah well like he's a street guy like he's a new york guy i can talk with him i can i can you know hustle bustle with him and he's not like a normal cop well it is i think if if you show vulnerability and and i mean by that i mean you take risk like if you take risk people accept you more right so for me to have the balls to come up to somebody and say you know like i'll give you a funny example i was uh working in 7-5 with my partner at the time his name was jerry we pulled this car over 280zx maroon back then that was the hottest cars you know there's maroon or burgundy colored uh 2a 280zx i pulled him over and i go to torched the car because i know he's dealing cause that's that's their car and uh i toss the car i can't find it and he's looking at me he's like sweating his [ __ ] balls off i said that all right you're good this time you know and i let him go and now i get transferred to coney island remember i told you i transferred to coney house okay so i'm walking to beaten coney island and this hispanic guy a little short stocky guy says hey batman and robin and i don't know who the [ __ ] batman and robin are it's me and my partner that's our nickname to them right so i go who's batman and robin he goes well he's batman because he's taller than me and you're robin i go okay what's up he goes you guys are in the wrong precinct so oh you're really smart you know because cops take their numbers from their old precinct and put it on their gun belt so if you see it back in the day you take you you put your new numbers on your shoulder so 6-0 precinct because that's coney island and i put my 7-5 numbers on my gun belt i said you saw my [ __ ] gun belt numbers he goes no you pulled me over in the 280zx i said burgundy he goes yeah i said the back trunk he goes yeah you because it's a hatchback yeah he said you missed it there was 10 kilos in there i said you [ __ ] he says all you have to do is pull that [ __ ] the uh the mold there's a there's a like a plastic mold or a that that gives like a cardboard mold off to the wheel well he said it was in the wheel well i said you [ __ ] jesus but when you come back to the 7-5 i got something for you oh yeah what do you mean by that like like i want to work with you oh yeah yeah he says i said i said why he said because you never try to lock nobody up you just want some money somebody said you [ __ ] [ __ ] you got me right he said we used to call the police we used to call 9-1-1 to see who shows up and when you and your partner were working we knew we were good for the night this is how [ __ ] criminals work right they would check on themselves and see who's going to roll up so anyway so yeah that was that's so that's what it's like you know yeah i think cops are a different breed nowadays than what they were back then yeah they're different especially around here i don't know how much time you spend in florida yeah i mean they're nice guys they're nice guys yeah they are nice guys i mean fair they're fair yeah they're fair i find them um squared away you know military-ish more on the more on the lines of military than you know that approach to things you know but you know i want you to let them let their guard down a little bit they're human like everybody else you know mm-hmm which is which is the truth i mean where tomorrow your brother's a cop you know you know your uncle's a couple your aunt's a cop right sorry you know well your neighbor yeah it's not it's not a job that i envy i mean especially nowadays yeah with the spotlight shining on on everybody and all the phones and everything well so so that's funny because you bring the spotlight i and i was the first advocate of course no one listens to me because i'm a dirty rogue [ __ ] corrupt cop i was the first advocate be behind every cop should wear a [ __ ] camera really yeah yeah every cop should wear a camera well because to keep you honest yeah on those moments where you because people don't forget human beings put these uniforms on right um so it keeps you honest and uh and most times cops do the right thing most times like 99 of the time they do the right thing i mean you might and i liked what they did you might not have wanted to be arrested but it's an ugly situation in any in any respect if if if a patron or a perpetrator doesn't want to get arrested it's going to get ugly right so you're asking a human being to do the job of a machine and that just you know that's doesn't really yeah cops are humans too yeah you know you know you if you spit in my face i do want to knock your [ __ ] teeth out right right you know just as a man right so so you know that guy's still a man you just spit in his [ __ ] face i mean i don't know how they do it today he's throwing rocks and bricks and [ __ ] urine and [ __ ] at the cops i would i saw a video the other day my father-in-law my father-in-law was like a really he he uh he used to work for one of the big uh this place called srt around here that sold a lot of the uh the guns and the body armor to a lot of the local law enforcement around here he showed me a video of this guy charging a police officer the cop shoots him at least 11 or 12 times and the guy's still going yeah and eventually he hits like the 13th time and he finally drops to his knees yeah not done not done yet though never seen anything like that man [ __ ] zombie yeah but uh good luck yeah you know being a cop dude that admit me now how about the scene we saw you saw the one where the the uh the police officer comes out of his patrol car the young black heavyset black girl goes to stab a girl on the ground oh he has to stab the girl against the car who's just standing there right and the cop shoots her and he's a scumbag low-life piece of [ __ ] right yeah that's the problem with the internet though that's like like i agree that the the cameras are a great thing because it keeps you honest right it keeps it keeps you honest you can't lie about what happened also the problem is that once you throw that into something like twitter then it's just tribalism at its worst you know what i mean everyone wants to pick they're like okay before i make my before i form my opinion on this what side am i on well yeah well if you start out on the side then you're really that's the problem you're never yeah you're gonna there's gonna be a problem right right so you just i like picture me i was a cop so i favor the cops normally but i've been arrested by police officers okay so i know how to be a little more exacting and judgmental of their actions so you know i always say that i think i'm one of the better critics of policing and police work so if i tell you what what's going on is correct or it's okay take it from a guy who's been arrested several times okay and i didn't like any one of them but you know i did put my hands behind my back eventually because i knew that i was submitting to being arrested for something that i did you know i'm not saying i was guilty of said crimes but you know i mean it wasn't pretty when they came to arrest me i'll just say that much i wanted to [ __ ] kill them i mean yeah i because i they arrested me at work the first time and then the second time they arrested me i was out on bail and didn't they storm your house then yeah yeah and all they did was call me in that's all i could do roger stone me they put the [ __ ] helicopters to [ __ ] speed speed boats and every [ __ ] thing else dogs search lights they beat your ass when they do that they rough you up a little bit no i've heard a lot of stories about drug dealers getting their ass kicked when they get the doors beat down i had one guy in here saying he almost got he got they beat his head to a pulp when they with a uh this guy who was an ecstasy kingpin in uh arizona oh i mean you might get a beaten yeah whatever i don't know it whatever it's life they say it's a couple hard knocks here and there what are you gonna do yeah but if you survived it if you if you comply with them well that's different yeah you would think that i shouldn't get my ass beat no you should come comply i agree like 100 you should not get your ass beat if you comply thank you you're correct it should never happen do you think a problem is a lot of people don't was he complaining cops huh was that gentleman complying yeah i think so okay at least he said he was all right well maybe he was that was his story no yeah no no and he very well could have been because i know some guys are just so amped up like they got to meet justice right here i mean dude this is your job just do it just do it right have the guys say that they treated me like a gentleman so you know that there's nothing wrong with that yeah that's my opinion um i used to buy them beer and [ __ ] uh chicken there was a guy i'm sure you know who he is jocko willing he talked when he i heard him talk about police reform and police in the problem and like the police world right now and it's that like he compares it to when he was overseas uh serving in the marines or he was a navy seal i think he was a navy seal or a marine anyways he would say like when they would go into these foreign countries or whatever their job was to basically integrate with this with the with the civilians and with everybody and basically talk to everybody figure out what's going on and basically be like a communication hub for them like talk to them be friends with them and try to like solve or complete a mission um so for example if it's a crack infested neighborhood the cops should want well i don't know i'm just asking we call community policing we have um outreach offices you know school offices right the problem is is never enough right you know and and and the real world is dangerous it's not like a book right you know because the one guy that that that's running the neighborhood's drug spot wants to make the money and new people don't want the traffic that he's bringing right but if he knocks off one or two of your neighbors everybody shuts the [ __ ] up it starts to get real what they say it's nothing like getting punched in the face when you walk into a ring oh this is a real fight you know right so things change you know all that practice practice is over now yeah i think i mean he was talking more about he was talking about like like like befriending people and trying to get people to trust him especially in those communities overseas in these foreign nations like iraq like iraq and afghanistan or whatever and you know you compare that to i mean the fa the most famous incident i think is like the trayvon martin incident where you had the ex-cop walking down the kid the kid was walking to the uh the grocery store was walking to a house or something like that right right and in florida it was that yeah in florida yeah yeah yeah yeah he was like chasing him down like hey what are you doing the guy was like the guy was a civilian an armed civilian right with a little bit of i think he had a peace officer status i'm not sure yeah i can't forget yeah yeah anyways i think the point is i think the point he was jocko was the guy the guy listen the guy the the guy did nothing wrong right he just overstepped his bounds who the the guy who shot him yeah right he overstepped his boundaries and then they got in the fight they were right and that's it you're done now i'm killing you yeah you're getting shot yeah that's that's unfortunate right he made a mistake then trayvon right the other guy didn't the mistake he made was confronting fear you just let him go and call the police that's it right that's why they have 9-1-1 but the fact that he got involved at that point it's the game would still be alive if he wouldn't if he didn't fight with the guy and just said okay i'll comply wait for the police to come right exactly i mean he might have been the nicest guy in america yeah but when someone's armed and they're making a citizen's arrest they have a choice to protect themselves too and he was tuning this [ __ ] guy up oh yeah he was getting tuned the [ __ ] up the 17 year old kid whatever he was he was beating his eyes he's beating the [ __ ] out of this guy guess what if i got a gun on me that means it's your gun now so i ain't giving it up yeah but you instigated the [ __ ] you started the fight [ __ ] and now you're getting your ass kicked but now you're gonna kill the kid no no you're gonna take my gun and kill me that's all that matters now you pun you beat my [ __ ] ass now you're gonna take me and shoot me with my own [ __ ] gun that's the problem that's what a problem is yeah i don't know yeah well that's what i'm that's what i'm telling you okay that's the problem the problem the problem was he overstepped his bounds and stopped trayvon instead of just calling the police and said he just ran through the back door over there whatever you know have the police confront them instead of doing that when he stepped out there and tried to be a citizen police officer trayvon now his actions ended up causing his death the other guy's actions caused the incident trayvon's actions caused his death because if you're getting your ass pummeled by somebody and you have a gun it becomes their gun do you do you not connect to that okay so that's that's the that's why he used deadly physical force to stop him right sober school no retreat law or something you don't have to retreat or you don't have to [ __ ] get your dick blown off if you you know if the guys [ __ ] got you down and choking you out you let them kill you you know right yeah i guess the the [ __ ] up part is like what was the reason he was chasing the guy down you know the guy didn't do anything wrong i don't know he just looked suspicious to him i guess he's wearing a hoodie so he should like i said call the police don't confront or try to talk to it you know even like confronting him yeah of him at least maybe try to communicate like verbally yeah i don't think it was working with he was sneaking around you know i mean he wasn't trying to talk to the guy like hey man what's going on what are you up to like what are you what are you going what's going what's going on i don't know where you had it you know what i mean like like like like i feel like advanced communication skills or even well this guy isn't a cop too yeah right this guy's a civilian he has a little uh i think he had a little training as a peace officer so he's not a local cop he's has a little training so now he's got a gun right and now he's put himself in a position to be the hero and now he's a [ __ ] zero and someone's dead so i mean but that's life you know that you know if someone burglarizes your house of course right right and they're in there doing a good job on it and you go to stop them and you they start tuning you up and right you know you reach for uncle sam under the [ __ ] draw and you fire a shot at him you're probably gonna get arrested right you're probably gonna get arrested but but should you right i think the point i'm trying to get to is when i originally brought it up was like jocko was saying to become someone that he was to become a navy seal you have to go through what's called hell week right which is basically the most brutal [ __ ] training that is created to break humans right and if you if you want it bad enough to make it through that you can become you can get this job right right right so is that every cop should do anything so it's ever yeah every cop should every car no i'm going to tell you i'm going to give you the answer his point was they should go through more or they should have to want it more or there should be more accountability so good he's i'm going to give everybody an answer that i gave people 10 years ago 15 years ago 20 years ago now send them to prison first what's that going to do send a cop to prison first start him out in prison then who the [ __ ] wants to do then no one's gonna want to be a cop well we're gonna have no cops mike we don't have anything like that start a cop out in prison if he makes it through a week of prison he'll understand what it's like to violate someone's rights he'll understand what it's like to the severity of putting the handcuffs on somebody and me so for a cop to put the handcuffs on you it's nothing for him it's his job but what he's just done is change your life irreparably maybe forever and he needs to understand or she the magnitude of the decision that they're making and what they're doing to somebody because watching someone's family grow up through pictures as you watch them watch their family grow up through pictures could sort of put a little sense of humanity into what you're dealing with because cops often don't see humanity when they see a criminal they see a crime and they treat that person in a relationship to the crime that's committed so someone shoots somebody and kills them they're a murderer right but maybe they just defended themselves well maybe last week the guy raped his daughter or tried to [ __ ] his mother and so on yeah and so on and so forth so so now you just saw someone shoot and execute somebody but you know what is he really that bad of a human being you know the guy who had his daughter on his lap that was trying to [ __ ] his daughter yesterday you know so how bad is this guy today yeah i know i mean everybody when you bring morality into it and and and reason for putting someone in prison obviously you know there's going to be nuance but i think when it comes to like how experienced you are how trained you are and whatever it is with with using weapons or defending yourself and if you've never done it and you get into a fight with somebody right you should be able to [ __ ] win the fight without having to blow someone's head you go ahead and fight uh what's his name that just knocked out 12 people with one shot you know who is that oh the guy from miami the mazdavao go ahead and oh yeah go fight trained cop good luck all right if you don't have 60 you got a problem all right so exactly so yeah so yeah and all cops should be better trained yes i agree but you gotta understand they're trying to turn cops out at a rate in 22 weeks they're trying to make you a cop okay yeah so in that time they're teaching you law social science i don't know vaginal work whatever the [ __ ] they put cops through today i don't know whatever i don't know you supposed to be medical doctors you know you [ __ ] teach people how to breathe get laid i don't know we're social workers yeah so so all the stuff they got to learn in the next 22 weeks and then you got to teach them how to be an expert fighter have got it you know what i mean and don't forget these are these are people that are getting paid a salary by a city good luck at the end of it we're going to touch a gopro to you good luck have at it you know i mean while you're still 103 pounds what the [ __ ] yeah you're five foot four you're three pounds you got you know you had a 22 inch wait you're a dime piece but people want to [ __ ] you but you can't fight your way out of what paper bag speed i'm sorry you know you're not only that one not only that we're gonna pay you 40 grand a year yeah right so let's go see what happens let's see how it turns out so yeah so there's uh there's a lot of reality that's good yeah i mean so it would be it would be nice if comps were given more self-defense classes i would say if they spent 40 percent of their time in self-defense classes rather than all the other [ __ ] they deal with um yeah my friend jimmy you want to answer it no okay tell him i'm yeah um yeah so right was jimmy in the documentary no no he's got his own documentary he's got his own documentary actually he was at a wedding for blanco the blanco blanco griselda blanco yeah he was at their wedding the other day and uh he presented them with a painting uh from maserati how do you say his name yeah yeah jimmy vegas we call him jimmy vegas because he's from florida no he's from he's from ohio moved to florida then moved to vegas so for some reason his name is jimmy vegas and uh but he's he's a pretty talented artist and uh so at blanco's wedding this week yeah this week which blanco is it you know the guy the the the son the son of the son of the son mother yeah wow yeah she he had a big wedding and he's got a reality show does he really yeah he's got wow i don't know i'm so out of luck yeah yeah i don't know he's got like five million views every week on on a reality show on tv and then he got married and in the wedding on tv it was a real wedding he really got married he presented them with one of his pieces of art for um their wedding gift geez yeah so it was pretty interesting some interesting characters out there you know we've run into a lot of different people right so that's pretty [ __ ] wild yeah it's pretty cool when did uh at what point did uh tiller what's his name at what point did he reach out to you and and say he wanted to make this movie about you yeah so i was in 2012. okay i was at that time i was home eight years ago you're already out yeah yeah i was homey eight nine years eight years and uh so uh i was in the car the girl i was with at the time her phone rang some guy actually thought it was my book agent i go what the [ __ ] does he want he said he hasn't got me he hasn't got me uh a publisher yet to do the book or writer and uh so it turned out it was i thought it was i thought it was jeff schmidt it was it was it was tiller russell and i go who are you and how the [ __ ] did you get this number like it's not even my number how'd you get this number and and uh it's funny because he would go on to repeat that same verbiage that i'd used on him the next four people he called said the same exact thing he said but they all followed up with one other thing what did mike say [Laughter] so yeah so he calls up and uh he flies in from la and he meets me and i put him in the car with me and i drive him around and just telling some stories and i said if you do what i tell you you're going to have a real [ __ ] you're going to have good fellas in police in the police department i said this would blow good fellas away if you do it right of course it was a documentary it wasn't a movie but uh so he goes oh really i said yeah so so he goes tell me uh tell me tell me so i run a few stories and he's [ __ ] got jizz falling off the side of his [ __ ] mouth and he's on the phone with the this guy eli holtzman in la he says we got a [ __ ] star and i'm like what we gotta stop eli yeah are you are you listening to me yeah he goes i go i go who's the star he goes you i said what do you mean he goes we've been working on this documentary for six months already i said what i i said and you came to see me at the end he goes well we've just changed the whole thing just now i go really so then i i helped him just they retool their whole project they spent a half a million around you they had they spent a half a million dollars and documentaries don't spend that kind of money but in this case they already had a half a million dollars in and then after meeting me they said forget everything we [ __ ] did forget about it we got it all don't do it all over then they had to reach out to the producers for more money and they went on and they they put together and so here so so the 7.5 documentary was put together for uh it sat on the shelf for almost two and a half years that just trying to get it right and they [ __ ] it up they [ __ ] it up they [ __ ] it up and they had guys like um well i can't think of all the names p diddy and all these guys they they they would meet and they in a video like in la they they they they do trial runs in front of people in the industry to see what they yeah you know it's like a focus group yeah exactly and so anyway and they all help each other out by doing it and so anyway so many many people had seen the rough draft they had it three hours at that time they were looking at it three hours at that time so one of the uh one of the guys and i i could be saying the wrong name so i don't want to say their names but one of the guys who's in the industry turned around and said more him and less the others okay meaning me so i guess so ps so they cut it down to an hour and whatever 40 minutes and uh and um i was amazed by it but they did a really good job and but there was 158 versions 158 full-length versions of the 7-5 what oh my god that's a lot more [ __ ] [ __ ] edited a lot of [ __ ] work in that thing so i'm really disappointed that but there's pro i would say there's probably 156 better ones than the one they let go really because the [ __ ] on the cutting room floor would make your hair stand up yeah so it was in [ __ ] credible and who ended up buying it ifc uh all three media produced it with some financing from others and uh they sold it to ifc that ifc which is a [ __ ] organization ended up [ __ ] hurt yeah this independent film company they're they're part of amc okay they're the subsidiary of amc they put no money into promoting at zero really like they put ten thousand dollars in the budget to promote it i did all the promotion basically and um so it didn't it seems it should have been it should have been uh should have got the award it should have got the academy award for the best documentary yeah it should have yeah no it should have 100 should have not because i was in it not because i was it was great because it should have incredible [ __ ] it should have got the what happened was it got lost in the small film festival in manhattan it didn't make it to sundance and then after they after they agreed to to take it uh this this little small [ __ ] show in the west village sundance called the next week and said we want it and they said well we already committed i'm like [ __ ] that sundance is where you want to they said listen you can't get a bad name in the industry if you back out of these little film festivals i don't give a [ __ ] about the next film i care about this film whatever i got no control you know right so they didn't go to sundance if you don't go to sundance you're not getting the [ __ ] you're not yeah that's right these [ __ ] nerdy little industry cucks try to dictate your if you would if you would have been look [ __ ] i was the one making all this money dealing with on the streets like if you want someone to sell this thing it's me [ __ ] and i'm still selling it i'm still selling it and what the [ __ ] are they doing nothing nothing nothing [ __ ] damn shame they're [ __ ] me are you at least getting paid no i got it from them are they paying you i'm supposed to get paid if they haven't turned a profit they said for three years on netflix they haven't turned a profit yeah that's the problem that i think that that industry i think the big film music industries television industries they're all they're all corrupt they're on their way out right they're corrupt they're corrupt they're on their way out because they [ __ ] over artists they [ __ ] over the talent right and they're infamous for [ __ ] over talent go to netflix you watch a thousand documentaries like that that expose music industry the film industry the tv entertainment industries for doing this and because of that because of all this light being shined on it they're on their way out and now like people like you artists talent people who have great stories they're creating their own platforms on things like youtube or anywhere else they tell it and then and they build their own platform and the audience is what dictates right what they do yeah well this is what i'm working on right now so we'll see what happens it's just it's tough when you're a solo band you know you know i'm not together with the other guys doing it you know if if i could get on board with each other and we could pull our funding and and maybe we can do something bigger together but you know doing something like this just a talk show no well th this is this side with this unless i'm going to do i just i i want to have it i don't want to go have cocked okay i don't want to do a studio or a podcast that's lacking i want to have everything in a podcast that that you have in a podcast you know i want to have a guy working with me in a boom booth i want to editor i want the cameras i want the system set up i don't want to go like off the phone like some people do and just have i just don't that's not i want to be real you know i want to be impactful so yeah a lot of people say that i've had a lot of guys on here that say that and it's it it hinders them from getting started it does it does it it has i actually was involved in a short podcast that was set up like this for about six episodes was called the mike and mike show and it really was very good because i was i was a big part of it and uh and it was a good good feed off the guy that i was working with he was basically the straight man and uh and i had like five or six episodes we did and uh and was it like a like like one of those edited podcasts with music where it tells a story or was it no no it was just him and me was kicking it talking about the day talking about the day and it was pretty it was pretty cool really yeah we'd talk about the day and then i do some analogies from synopsis from my past and connect with today and tomorrow and and just just kicked it you know talked about you know the air conditioning unit not working oh yeah you know i i plugged one up you know yeah i don't think the air conditioning is working in here now yeah well uh where can people oh that they're listening or watching on youtube where can they find your uh are you well right what are you pushing so right now i'm just doing i'm really just uh so i'm i have the cigar line that's that's been still available it's just i haven't i haven't uh what it is is there's some issues getting stuff from the dr to here because it's a very high tax so but you know if people were interested in getting some cigars they can contact me through instagram twitter or facebook you know the mic down on instagram and twitter and d-o-w-d d-o-w-d yeah uh or um michael down on facebook and stuff like that i'm really not pushing much right and right now i'm looking to get my screenplay done uh and i'm looking to get my author my book done i i i've almost had it done three times now it's really getting exhausting what's stopping you what's this no i've had i've had i've had the authors three times and to write it out and the first off the absconded the next off the was no good we went to a meeting with all the top publishers and we didn't get the deal done and then uh because he wrote it like a [ __ ] [ __ ] anyway uh uh yeah he wrote it like a [ __ ] and and the other guy uh who's a pretty good writer uh he got four books published he's sort of backed he's and i sat down with him for two months it's exhausting going over these these stories and and and and you know reliving them and the passion and the compassion and the feeling that you know you see how i am i'm gesticulating all over the [ __ ] place when you tell these because you know they come out of you you're physically these stories yeah so uh and he's got 100-page treatment written and i i don't know i don't know i don't know so i got to get the right writer and the right publishing people behind me and get it done or i may end up self writing it but so yeah so the screenplay and the in the book i'm working on i have i own my rights to the book and i own my rights to a tv series with first rights of refusal going back to the people that are doing the movie you know they're doing the movie they're well so that did the movie the documentary no no no no no no no no so i'm working on the movie right now okay allegedly because it's all in development hell i'm trying to get the screenplay done because they've dropped the ball now five times on the screenplay actually actually six times on the screenplay they've had five different different screenplays written and no one it's not it's not catching on so something's not right and i don't see any of them i don't get a chance to see any of them so i don't know what they're putting out there but i know what they can put out there and it'll sell tomorrow so right if they would just come and sit with me and pay me a [ __ ] decent salary to do it with them it'll be done that's why i got out of that [ __ ] industry man i used to do i used to do the same [ __ ] i used to live in the same nightmare as you i used to that used to be my job i used to develop tv show concepts and sell and pitch them to tv networks and that was the [ __ ] that was the nightmare of it is that you you push your project onto them you're the one that knows everything you're the one that's on the ground right right that's i was just i was more like the the filmmaker i wanted to like package it all shot it edited it whatever and and once you once you pass it off to them those guys in hollywood or new york wherever the hell they are and they get their hands on it it's it's you're they [ __ ] up the whole thing [ __ ] up the whole they botch it they botch the whole [ __ ] thing they think they think they know they're better yeah they think they know it all they want to take care of their relationships they think they how about get the [ __ ] product out there that's good right right that's why that's a good product that's why i got it and started doing this i started putting it all out on youtube myself don't have to answer to anybody [ __ ] them are you doing good yeah i'm doing i'm doing okay good i'm surviving you're surviving surviving yeah i don't have to worry about about putting a meal on the table you're getting you're feeding the family feeding the family that's that's what it's all about and that's a good thing and that's why i go on shows and not that you need me on your show but some of the guys that like they have like 800 viewers i'll go to this show just to so that i remember who i am you know help the little guy you know that's that's what everybody should do help the little guy you know that's what the life's about that's what you know i mean you know whatever that's how i was raised that's good man that's uh snowball of you well it cost me a lot of money yeah you don't you don't do you don't live in florida right you live in new york right yeah i still live in new york but i i have a place down here that i come to several months like three four months of the year myrtle beach that ain't in florida right here you got a condo here too [ __ ] no i have a condo here really clear water i don't have one in myrtle beach anymore okay you sold that one oh the feds took it something thanks for doing this mike i really appreciate it yeah um yeah i enjoyed this conversation well good i'm glad i'm glad you had me in goodbye world peace [Music] you

Channel: Danny Jones

Views: 166,362

Keywords: Koncrete, podcast, underground, exclusive, independent, interview, interviews, koncrete podcast, documentary, mike dowd, michael dowd, NYPD, dirty cop, the seven five, tiller russell

Id: wyd2YFQYBwc

Length: 89min 37sec (5377 seconds)

Published: Fri Jun 11 2021