The Last of Us 2 Remastered - COMMENTARY | Neil Druckmann, Ashley Johnson, Troy Baker, Laura Bailey

hi I'm Neil Duckman and I was the director and co-writer hi my name is hiy gross and I was the co-writer and narrative lead I'm Ashley Johnson and I play Ellie hi I'm Troy Baker and I play Joel this whole scene came about we because we're trying to figure out how do we recap the previous game just enough for people that haven't played it or might have been so many years they don't even remember it so we thought oh Joel could confess to Tommy and this was I don't know why I dug my heels in and I was like I do not agree with this I had such a problem with it because I felt like this was a secret that Joel was going to take to his grave and he would just bear this sin and it wasn't until we were on set and I'm sitting across from Jeffrey maybe I just and I'm watching him just listen to Joel and every take we went deeper and got better and more truth came out it's really small but you're right it's it's really power powerful and intimate of this exchange between these brothers of just how far they've come since he's rejoined Jackson yeah this become one of my favorite scenes the meticulousness of this task of fixing up a guitar and remember you saying specifically is like you're really trying to get the grime out and to me how that mapped to what he's trying to do in this scene with this conversations I'm just trying to get every last bit of dirt out in the original and we didn't cut to a closeup of of Joel and seeing like what was his emotional state coming into that operating room that look from Tommy what do you do I love this right here I saved her and we wanted some Darkness around that that statement of like the implication is I did whatever I needed to do to get her out of there and the justification you know that comes from that that is the central question right and I think that opening the game on that line is so important because Joel really does believe he saved her and that's the question for Ellie throughout the game of did he I remember just so much work we did on this soundscape right here of just leaving you with that that kind of uncomfortable feeling of um it was a good thing but there was definitely a lot of Darkness around it it's a great scene for Tommy as well and now he's just now he has to carry the weight of this thing that his brother did God damn right now he's he's not feeling great about it that's so that's a lot that's a lot he's also a family guy so he on some level he gets it what does Hell know and he gets what obviously he knows what Joel has been through and why that decision was so important for him I told her they just ran some tests there's something to me that hits me every time when Ellie rolls over I don't think I caught it as much I think I was aware of it like Neil you being a parent you're more familiar with some of those gestures than I was or I am now traveler will do this where he will when put him to bed or whatever and he's ready to go to sleep or he needs to be alone with his own thoughts he'll he'll do that turn and it never really hit me that that's what Ellie is doing is is just okay I'm I'm done talking about this now I just kind of want to be private in my own thoughts which is also an interesting J opposition it's happening here is we're getting to see the moment he was lying to her while he's confessing the truth to his brother and the difference is in those two relationships now and it's um despite how much they've been through and how much Ellie has become an equal of sorts he still sees her as his child and if he has to lie to her to protect her he will it was important to get this final handoff of um playing as Jo one last time is this beautiful sunset ride towards Jackson before we fully kind of hand off the Baton to Ellie we worked so hard on these transitions to go from cutscene to gameplay and it was just a change in Tech that we had from the first game to the second game where the first game all the cinematics were pre-rendered now that there were real time there was a lot of effort put into just these seamless transitions in and out of gameplay about what we were talking about earlier this is a great moment I can't say I'd have done different and you have to wonder is like is Tommy telling the truth or does he know it's too late to do anything about it and that's the best truth to put out there there's also something just as I'm just it's just occurring to me now but I think confessing to Tommy really speaks to sort of the themes of the game of how hard it is to be alone and to carry things alone M and even Joel can't do it at a certain point and needs to unload on Tommy and so what it is for Ellie to isolate further and further and further and carry her Secrets alone more and more and more there's her little house h i discovered some people don't realize that her house is the the garage the yeah exterior garage of Joel's house look she's drawing a deer oh and you're hearing Sean Jam James song which was the song we did for the teaser trailer Ellie shout out to the environment team that had to build several different versions of this room as Ellie has lived in it for longer and longer and got more and more of her items from the old world that she's obsessed with LA a lamp I love this moment of just like uh Hey how do you Jesus do you both remember when we uh did this scene live on stage just for an audience of 100 200 people I forget exactly like Jeff KY set up this one Night Live and um I wrote the scene just for that but in back of my mind I knew already this would be the opening for the second game oh yeah and that was talking about how impressed they are some of that was streamed except for the scene that was just for the audience yeah we did not stream the scene there was this I remember we got it and then as often happens there's a team of people that kind of come up to you and after you go cut you know best that one that's that's a take we can go with and people just kind of clouded around you and there was a conversation that was happening we were trying to figure out what it was and you I saw you do your you know everything's okay it's okay it's fine it's fine and then afterwards you tell me the story that in Uncharted 3 the ship capsizing was one of the most resourc draining almost gamebreaking things that you guys one of the most ambitious set pieces you'd ever done and then in the Left Behind DLC the photo booth was one of the most resource draining almost game-breaking things he goes up until you decided to put your thumb your Bell Loop oh that's right yes actually that that's funny because yeah because you did that um Joel initially didn't have his shirt tucked in um but in order to honor again this little gesture that you did redesigned his clothing and and the way we did clothing on this game is we actually sourced the actual material and um scan so we had to like Source the shirt the pants the belt scan it so we could do this one gesture that you did which was like looping your thumb around your belt interest in you from a writing standpoint this was a a tricky scene because we have to establ reestablish these characters in their relationship but also show there's something hanging over them that there is uh we had to honor the ending of the first game that moment of okay of lie that again Ellie Ellie knows something is off but she doesn't quite know how to deal with it or how to move past it right so this scene has like you see at the beginning she's trying to get rid of him and then he wins her over by playing the song and like she softens by the end of it and it's interesting they they talk about of like you promise you would teach me how to play the guitar and they're talking about like promises and Oaths and the idea of um keeping your promises and we know this lie is hanging over them I love this opportunity this song gives Ellie to watch him yeah without confrontation and again there's so much beautiful acting that you're doing here Ashley I know these compliments don't make you uncomfortable but um it's like look how much she's processing yeah you could see it you feel it and again that uh talking about when characters make eye contact versus not it's like only when he finishes do he finally allow himself to look up barely barely right there it's a very intimate thing I don't think I've ever been more nervous than I was in that scene playing that song were you more or less nervous when you did it live for some reason playing music live to me feels a little bit more at home um but also I don't know if I fully understood what that song Meant to you Neil and knowing what it was going to mean now to other people once they play the game and and now there was context to it now there was story first lesson they care about each other so much okay that lighting lighting is so gorgeous here and this was the same pun we had when we when uh you both did it live do you remember the joke um and you could you could see the the shift in Joel like that song has just shifted the relationship a little bit it moved the needle mm he's standing up a little taller it's time consuming I love how much he's just trying to reach out to her on her terms yeah yeah he still got that in him space yeah still got that yeah can I get uh and this again this writing is is is the same it's like how this ended was the same as the live version where you just play the the low E I guess with the Capo would be an e but and just let this ominous note linger [Music] interesting parallel in last was part one Joel wakes up after the multi-year jump to a knock at the door was that an accident no that was by Design morning sorry I totally overslept just give me a minute and I'll yeah initially we had the whole dance and the kiss in the beginning and then once we moved it to the end we had to kind of through Exposition and dialogue hint at what happened it was Justa beinga it's just Dina being Dena I was talking about your fight with Seth wait you kissed Dena I love that that scene kind of plays out like an awkward thing between them as if they had kissed last night which is really funny you know it has this like kind of morning after feel but it's like not about them which is really Charming I would never yeah that's true this is so Ashley awkwardness right here I love it VV awkward like don't don't Point don't bring attention to something that I did please it's kind of [ __ ] up you did that Jesse's the coolest guy look at him he's like you kissed his girl and he's like ah I'm I'm fine yeah excuse me oh Seth there you are come here oh Seth yeah remember uh this this scene was um want to hear what that big I mean so much of the stories about forgiveness and letting go of stuff and how Ellie specifically struggles with that and this was a pretty minor example of that come here turns out I really struggle with it because I still hate this scene I'm like [ __ ] that guy I know trying look at him steak sandwich he's trying so hard I wrapped it with a bow the way he starts with like look I'm like you look you yeah don't don't don't don't don't look at hear me let's let's just oh oh now it's her fre job yeah this scene makes me so mad hey I'm trying to apologize you little [ __ ] what made you some sandwiches okay your steak thank you Seth didn't we discuss cutting bigot sandwich because people had such a hard time understanding it at first yeah they kept hearing bacon sandwich bacon sandwich B sandwich was it bigot sandwich yeah I appreciate that what you got there bigot sandwich yeah yeah for got about that smells hi you wrote that didn't you I I don't know it just bigot sandwich feels feels me okay just give me a minute this dena's big intro oh here she comes I'm Shannon Woodward I I had a really hard time hiding behind nothing here well that's the thing that's so hard about sometimes acting in these things is that you like the kids weren't there and then we like later captured kids and kind of constructed all the pieces hey this is a v me lean I love to lean I just want to say sorry for running off last night I actually really love this scene I totally get it I I just I felt bad I love the on liners that you guys kind of Rift on when we were doing the combat stuff for the snowball fight oh my God I still die laughing when I hear you guys insulting children and I think that was really a lot of that was just my instinct your parents don't love you and then I think I think eat snow you little No you little shits yeah cuz I think you were like eat snow and then I said eat snow you little [ __ ] I think it's like I love name calling children what the [ __ ] I'm not even playing interesting parallel is uh Ellie doesn't want to do any of this until she gets hit with a snowball and then it's like let's make these [ __ ] pay which is again is a really light-hearted moment of what this whole story is about all of the horse acting was always very funny to me because how that works is you have somebody holding on to a rope and you're just kind of pulling it along pulling them around and it would always make me laugh fun fact the guy in the stable there is uh Yuri who plays Spider-Man and the Spider-Man insia game yeah yeah yeah and this was another big scene anytime we have a big scene like this we can only have so many actors in the volume so this is captured in pieces and I remember like Troy played one of like the people kind of like and they were improvising talking crap in the background yeah and it's not there anymore there was a bit where he said something kind of goting to me and it's not there anymore but then every take we did I'd call him a new name that I thought was like embarrassing like listen Chad come back be smart about it wait I actually didn't know you there's only a certain amount of people you can have on the volume get going yeah just cuz we like we start losing data after a while so to track all the the little balls and stuff like like there's like this it's it gets fuzzy like above eight I think it just like gets more expensive and you're more likely to be aone so it needs more cleanup [Music] yeah [Music] hi I'm Laura Bailey and I played ABY in The Last of Us Part Two ominous and here we have the introduction of This Crew the Salt Lake City crew there's Neil shelf insert and here we have Laura Bailey waking up this was a repeating Motif from the first game of these characters that are haunted by some horrible trauma and can't sleep the lighting is really nice here it's really nice everywhere we debated quite a bit of like how much do we want to reveal for this character when you're about to play as her um versus how much we want to hold off for like the second half of the game when you get to see more of her remember we rated a lot of how much snow he should have on him because he was just outside this is one of the audition tees I think what were you dreaming about oh yeah oh that's right was I talking you doing here it's important to know that we did not want to cast you in this role I've heard tell that you did not uh just because you're in so many things and you're so iconic but uh you are the best and once we saw your audition there was no turning back what are you GNA do you know trust me you painted us into a corner Laura Bailey you're welcome this the first real big choice this character makes Abby of do we turn back or is it does she choose Justice we made it she going to end up choosing Justice Just Like Ellie does later many times choosing Obsession mhm it's a [ __ ] City yeah it's also important to note that um you know when you're acting in this there's nothing there you're in this blank white volume and we're like okay it's snowing you got to act like you're freezing there's a town in the distance it's you know it's so weird though like I never when I like try to remember a scene or remember performing that moment I never think of it in terms of like oh right we were in this gray volume it's I always had like this visual of every set that was actually supposed to be there and I think of it in those terms but I think that's a unique skill that uh only some actors have really other actors without the set without the costume they just they can't get into it they can't lose themselves the way like you and Troy and Ashley do when I did this audition Troy was reading opposite me because he was doing all of the Abby auditions sure'll be he forgot all of the lines in this particular scene and we were just like making stuff up I remember thinking like that went really well these scenes can be very tricky right but there also a lot of fun where you're just giv hints of this relationship and obviously there's this some kind of triangle here between Abby Owen and Mel and Abby does a very poor job of hiding her feelings okay it's not just that though should I say congrats when everyone else sees this they're going to want to turn back but it's it's just interesting that um convince you know Owen we're setting up here he plays this moral conscience for this group and even here he's trying to give Abby a way out count on you Abby I want what you want but not at any cost not at any cost so it's like that's there's a line here for justice he's not willing to cross and she hasn't found her line yet well it's also like selflessness versus selfishness right he now has even with nothing else he now has a baby he has to think about right which is the same for Dena which is the same for Jesse which is the same for Joel but she is only thinking about herself well one could argue she's also thinking about her father that this is all coming out of love the love she had for her dad and the Injustice that they all experienced and his brutal murder By Joel's hands oh there we go you think it's still good does weed go bad let's find out the infamous weed scene we going to talk about how we did this twice you have oh yeah we had a whole other version of the scene that was a little too Earnest yeah and we rewrote it and recaptured it you describe it as Earnest because I felt that it was it was it was literally a fight until she's like okay I love you it also felt that fight was trumping some stuff that happens later in the theater once we in Seattle so this was like a moment to give them wrong pure innocence before we go on this violent journey I remember Neil when you pitched the idea that like she throws the glass and I I still to this day I'm like but what if you smoke glass I really concerned yeah I mean going to be struck here a while right uh kissing scenes in performance capture is really hard I feel like that the the hardest part about it was when we would have to do the ones where we would have to be standing apart oh yeah that was really embarrassing we would just have to be like our we had one where it was just you standing there uh with your face turned to the side and just kind of kissing the air so we get the pure facial reference that isn't obscured by Shannon's big head why do you need why do you need the front of the face the front of the face is being used well cuz made it from like all angles even though you only see that like one side how would you I feel like if I had to do this with anybody else it would have been even more uncomfortable but because Shannon and I got so close it was this helpful to sort of when we had to do those awkward sort of kissing moments and we weren't actually being able to connect with each other physically and feeling awkward and weird we would still be holding on to each other so it's still felt we were like minorly cuddling minorly cuddling so you're like well at least there's like a little bit of something here like intimacy there was still some form of intimacy that was like all right I still feel safe I don't feel like I'm like flapping in the wind and and you're in a brightly lit room very brightly with a bunch of technical Engineers like standing all around you yeah but we found ways we found ways around it to sort of still be able to you know connect with each other and not feel so weird oh what I mean now I really want to what doing this I think pretty hard of you're trying to convey years of relationship with this other your best friend and it all has to come across like there's just so much history and yet there's a still awkward thing that hasn't been realized until this moment have you met you you make me want to go back outside into that blizzard she's got to flick that joint really aggressively in a second flicky least so cool here look look how cool she is this better be better than a [Music] s yeah the flicking always made me uncomfortable I was like what if it cat if it catches on fire it's a very dry [Music] space the one guy that saves her life is the one guy she wants to kill well I think it speaks to the Nuance of atonement right it's like she ultimately will save two other kids in trouble but is that enough does that make up for anything so we wanted to create a scenario for them where again and Tommy trying to do the right thing and create some trust between him and Abby he inadvertently reveals who they are and you could see right now right there like Abby has this reaction that only makes sense for players in hindsight knowing who she is but now her goals become different not only to escape the horde but to get these two back to her people this is where we see Joel doing something that for us who have spent so much time with him before is pratal to him it's to trust someone is really really hard but he's choosing to do it and the problem with choosing to trust people is you always every time open yourself to getting hurt that's just such a Laura look I love it it's like boy this is this is a bit of a [Laughter] [Applause] pickle this is the lethal weapon for comparing scars I love it when I was 12 look at those arms really jacked Dina's hot tried to get on it so zelli they're hot yeah we're hot yeah we're hot I remember armpit hair being a large discussion hair with as wowski who was our character art director yeah and how much body hair should the girls have and what are we okay with and like let them be natural ladies I love it the chemical burn I done it myself why it's on it's it's on the tip of her tongue right there uh that's a hard thing to say to somebody like oh I'm the only person that doesn't really get affected by this thing that's completely ruined the world here now I'm trying to remember does it make it in that I'm like I told you something true it does it does that's this still happens this scene because we did it twice some sometimes I'm like I don't remember which because we both times we did like it was like 5 hours yeah they were big days ring of [ __ ] up teeth marks and CIS and ow [ __ ] you what hey I told you a real [ __ ] story I did tell you a real [ __ ] story oh you want to bite mark oh God here comes stevenh I remember how Shannon how angry you were at Steven I wasn't angry at Ste I couldn't tell why I was mad and then I we this is the only real thing I actually fought for was was this you doing was to make him turn around it was with you and I was like he needs to turn around and you were like why and I was like and I it took me a while to explain it to you and then when he did it then you were like I get it because I was like no because I have to protect her pretty sure that was in the script no it wasn't it was the only argument we had it's been 3 years I don't remember you're probably right it was the only only thing I argued with you about and it was because I felt so protective of Ashley that I knew it was right that I was like because we were so close that I was like turn around she's naked like yes you know because you guys knew each other intimately but Ellie and exactly and because I had to like I wanted to prove to you that I was loyal to you and not embarrassed because he was there I love it I feel like it shows so much about how strong Dena is and how loyal and sort of just uh I don't know I love that I feel like that little moment says so much about [Music] Dena we really wanted to show or build trust between Joel and Tommy and this group to show that without their help they might have died meaning Tommy and Joel would have died without this group another one I think I'm like screaming out to all like the ACT okay now they're burning now like there's a lot of fire and you got to speak up over the storm again none of those elements are there let's get inside and right now only Abby knows what's about to go down everybody else thinks like oh we just found friendly people that helped us along we captured this all as one go from here all the way to the golf club hit and um initially we had versions of it where it was edited to be multiple cuts and then it felt like it could just be way more tense if the whole thing was one shot um required a lot of stitching of different performances and different elements and some tweaking of stuff in animation but um you have no idea I find that this scene has so much tension that the way it now moves we rehearsed it so many times before we shot it to make all the moving Parts work from a directing side that this could be hard as well because you're trying to pay attention to so many actors and making sure it's all feeling honest and authentic yall should come back with us restock before we head out appreciate it there there's no Ambush here they're all being authentic this my brother until this moment and now Everything Has Changed we knew this was going to be the most controversial scene in the whole game and that and the intention is that it is brutal and it is is hard to watch which obviously as a player is really difficult to go through but it puts you in alignment with Ellie you're watching this Devastation to this man that you've come to love as a character and now you're watching him be brutally murdered and it should be upsetting it should hurt a lot of people are still really upset about it but what a faster way like I can't think of a faster way to help you understand why Ellie is going to go as far as she's going to go because we're there seeing how this thing was stolen from her this interplay of like you want him to suffer and he's not giving you the satisfaction of like I don't care who you are do your worst MH and you try yeah you try to do your worst Char's not a man who begs these are a conversation I had with Troy about how prepared he was like he like he's lived for 20 years 25 years at this point of like just always accepting that this day might come something like this will happen because it always happens in this world yeah it's irrelevant to him who they are or why they're doing this cuz there are so many people who could want to do this to him given the life he's LED I just remember shooting it and being like this moment you've worked towards for so long and wanting it to feel right and wanting it to feel good and it happens and you just feel [ __ ] empty I think we've talked about it Neil like you had talked to me about this role and you told me about this character Abby and you told me what you were planning for her and she had like a different story I think at the time um how they met and everything but I was excited and terrified because like as a player that's strong traumatizing and I didn't know how people were going to react to it you don't get to rush this of this sequence where Ellie came in after the fact and it just felt we needed her to see it to really set up this journey yeah this was rough this was a rough day on set because I knew we were losing a character that we all love very deeply you know even the imaginary circumstances of that are just hard it's also our you know all of our friendship my friendship with Troy so just seeing that and what I remember more than anything is um you know we're going through the mechanics of it we're stupid suits on a sound stage and there's all of these minations and and things that are keeping it goofy but the one thing that cuts through the dent of all that is when when I look over at Ashley um because being the great actor that you are um all those things go away and all you see is the moment that we're trying to create and the reality of what this scene is for you personally and everything that I'm feeling everything that I'm thinking is gone cuz I'm just watching and I don't know if I'll ever be able to watch that scene without it bringing me to to that place ever um but the thing that I has been proven to me is because of the way that I feel because it's so hard it is absolutely the most honest perfect version of this story there's no other version of this story there just isn't and for for this version of the scene it was important that we were in Ellie's head that you don't get to hear this conversation that's happening around her but this was just about the ringing of the ears of pure hatred and anger that she's experiencing right [Music] now oh my God I just this this final look right here where she sees him and I'm sorry can't fix this well she's going to try to find a way to fix it they're down here yeah she's going to try to find a way to fix it in the best way she knows [Music] how I love this scene with you and Jeffrey brings you Tupperware with food oh yes I this was one of this was one of my favorite scenes to shoot I love working with Jeffrey you're so brilliant how it goes from this really sad mournful place to just slowly rage over time as you're not getting what you want also this emptiness you have for just from that look out out the window there to like this that like bere it it's just really it's just really right on point it's so good hey Hey Jeffrey here is is quite brilliant like he has to he wants to go after the people hurel so there's like the emotional part of his mind and the the rational part and they're kind of in Conflict here and like he's trying to do what's best for Ellie which is to say it's not worth it I also really love how the blocking of this scene worked out because I love that neither of them can look at each other they're not fac faing each other Mar wants to make sure you're eating and Jeffrey's voice it's so she can't stop scrumptious to have the guys that we would need to do this smart we'd be leaving Jackson vulnerable I love it it's like the one time you look at him is to make him feel shame like are you really saying this to me nobody the only time that there's confidence there with her is when there's anger present what if we get hit by hunters again is this you talking or is this her it's a valid point if it were you or me Joel would be halfway to Seattle already which is true well we had actually lines here where he counters that and he says Joel never went after the people that killed his daughter like because we we really wanted to flesh out the point that like Joel is more pragmatic with his violence where Elliot comes from a much more emotional place with it why didn't you guys keep that in it just felt like we're just to on the too too much Exposition about the previous game I wanted more to stay in this moment like there's other ways of to talk about what Joel did in other spots and really wanted to focus about and if you want to come with me great this the logistics of going after the people going after Abby you have no idea what you're walking into you don't know how large that group is don't care I don't care you can't talk me out of this again this this moment of decision where he's like in order to protect I'm going to have to go by myself and he's like now he's lying again not this similar to Joel lying to Ellie to protect her give me a day right that give me a day's [ __ ] okay there got to be some folks you can spare why the choice of the hairpiece coming down the little hair string for for Tommy there's a little bit of design like Abby has something similar as well so it's like there's um what animators call secondary movement so as when he's moving around he say physics on the hair I just no one more way to bring the CG character to life yeah it's also such a flex because it really doesn't look good in other games like it's just like it looks amazing and it's like it's it feels it's just like such a subtle Flex like look what we can do yeah I love this this hug that then it's just too painful for the two of them they can't stay in that moment uh-uh that's uh too uncomfortable to be vulnerable got too much [ __ ] to [Music] do there there's something about you know when when um it doesn't feel real until you're at his grave like there's a part of you maybe because you play a bunch like you play video games you watch a lot of popular movies you keep thinking he's going to come back somehow and then it's like no there's his name on that gravestone and then the famous Gustavo all gone another version of that theme it was hard it was hard Joel is a character that I love and I I wasn't ready to let him go so seeing that even experiencing that of seeing you know oh we're doing a scene where we're at the gravestone is very final I love it I love that Dana was there the whole time and we didn't know that yet not looking on just sort of giving Ellie her moment I remember when we were doing that I really did feel like I was like really trying not to listen to you I felt that too you did yeah like I'm right here if you need me but I'm not listening you know you you have your privacy but if you need me I'm here this is uh Ashley Scott is Maria realizing what Tommy has done Maria I'm headed to Seattle I wish I could let it go but I can't I have to bring these people to Justice Ellie's going to try to come after me but stop her take her guns lock up the horses maybe lock her up bu me some time so I can end this love you always Tommy he's going to get himself killed he should have taken me with him I like that she hasn't thought at all about what she's just going she doesn't even know what she's doing what she's Gathering zero PL and and Maria knows this right Maria knows her like a parent of sorts and to say okay well if you're going to do this here's some stuff you going with her yeah damn right she is right or die sneak out of here I love that those little moments with Dina where you see the snarky bits and it's funny because like this whole section here I constantly felt like anytime we were dealing with Joel or any about Jackson there I was like oh this is none of my business you know like it felt like I shouldn't be there like and even in that scene there too it was like well I mean yeah I'm going with her and I'm here to be with her but all of this stuff predates me so all I could do were kind of these little things that were almost like for your benefit to like kind of support you or be like I saw that that was a lot are you okay she's a lot yeah do me a favor it's a weird feeling of um letting someone that's grieving have their space but offering yourself to help them in any way you can of course all right then get going you're you're losing light I really remember the end of this scene and this look that I give you like well that was a lot I think yeah here it it's right here there it is like o this is like a lot today is lot that could have gotten way worse yeah yeah in here it's still there I'm like all right this this shot right here with the light coming through Ellie's ear is just so gorgeous hey hi do you want to talk about how we managed to get the right sure to this beautiful song sure we were looking for a song and my my bestie is a spectacular woman named Lauren seavoy whose husband is uh Paul wakar seavoy who is um a member of the band Aha and so I reached out and and said would it be possible to get this dope ass song in the game and they were like yeah let's do it that's amazing that's great so it just like it was just a lucky happen stance that we were able to to pull it off but it's great cuz now every time now like two of my favorite things are combined forever it's also cool how these things are such a collaboration for that's that's obviously Ashley singing but that's Ashley's friend Chris playing guitar and we moocha his hands and then transpose that onto Ellie's body I loved this game mechanic so fun this is my favorite missable moment in the whole game the fact that this is optional I think remember how much we talked about the fact cuz like so many people love this and we're like and then there were people on the team that argue that this you should not be able to miss this but it makes it more special knowing that you might have missed it you got to earn me staring at you you for several [Music] minutes such a good cover too I mean I wouldn't say it to Ashley's face don't look over here but like it's pretty [Music] solid needless to say when I see uh dena's look over here my interpretation is that she's remember all the times that she was falling in love for Ellie in the past when she was with Jesse um cuz right they're talking about this has happened before she played this song and the other character moment that's interesting here is like the the song she originally play here when she picks up the guitar is Future Days is what Joel teaches her and as soon as Dina walks through the door she stops playing that song she doesn't want to talk about that this is actually I think canonically the first time you will have seen Ellie successfully play guitar since the opening scene where Joel says he's going to teach her yeah so this is the first moment that we realize like that he really did teach her so it also represents not just like her relationship with Dena but oh you're right every time she's picking up a Guitar there's a connection of Joel every single time and we were like when we're making this we kept talking about what are different ways we could remind you of Joel because he's not there make him a ghost but he's present there were a version we talked about having like ghost Joel talk to Ellie and just felt a little too campy for this story I wanted to me too all right we should keep moving yeah oh the Tommy torture scene so we got to see Joel do the scene in the first game of interrogating two people and now we get to see like the aftermath of having this interrogation done by Tommy here just shows you what he's capable of Tommy did this and then later we get to see Ellie try to do this no way right and at this point for Dena she doesn't really know about Tommy's past she doesn't know that he she doesn't have the privileged information that Tommy used to be as bad as Joel and she's just really sort of seeing that for the first time cuz she knows like the reformed Tommy that lives in Jackson helps everybody [ __ ] right there's another one over here I remember we iterated a lot on the lighting of this room and trying to give it the right vibe that it wasn't too bright or too dark I don't recognize him that's that's really important I don't recognize him that shows Tommy killed someone that wasn't involved in Joel's death that there's already starting to be this cost of um whether this person is innocent or not is who knows this no he wasn't a question but you don't make him say it you make him write it down then you ask this guy this the worst board game ever telling the truth one of the things that really like rocks me about some of these scenes is also just how comfortable they are around death all the time yeah you implies her understanding this kind of anger and grief as well that like Ellie really is not okay and she's losing because other people are going through this all the time and so like it's those little things like that that really like moved me when I was actually playing the game I was like God this is [ __ ] up like and and right around this area is where we have Dena mention her sister and how she was never able to avenge whatever happened to her sister so she has this unfulfilled thing and she knows how traumatic that can be and she doesn't want that for Ellie so this is the first contact with the people that killed Joel he's great yeah Chase is Chase Austin is great and fun fact Chase played uh young Sam Drake in Uncharted 4 how'd you find us so ballsy scar across his face it's funny how many came with you hm just you two I think that's what Ellie really believes that no matter what they're going to get what to do like there's like some Cosmic Karma thing going on supposed to be out for the other um I feel like she has to or she just bullshitting him to make him believe that there's more people coming K Jackson [Music] yeah this girl was there so uh that guy is being played by Ruben Langdon who played James in uh part one face though is the scan of Mike Hatfield our um lead foreground artist trespassers hold up hold on hold on that doesn't make any sense direct order man no let's talk to her let's figure out what she knows I don't give a [ __ ] what she knows you saw what she did to the others you have no idea I don't care how many people she's with we will find them we will kill can you just think for yourself or out of my way [Music] Dina Jesus come here Dina this is the first time Dena realizes that she's like really not okay she's like what the [ __ ] yeah yeah which I love because it's the hint of the obsession like she's losing herself to the this Chase instead of what's actually happening right now and really really to their detriment and it was important when we were writing this scene to have the death be relatively quick and then there you can't even linger and think about it um and again this this just kind of push forward of like maybe the next one will be more satisfying maybe the one after that will be more satisfying the first kind of like uh draft we have of all Seattle is Sucker Punch Games made looks clear and from a second sun which takes place in Seattle so they gave us a 3D model of all of Seattle starting and then we just spend a lot of time just like mapping out the entire story and where like Ellie and Abby go so we have this very intricate map of all the location and based off of that we said okay now we need a map that they could point to in the Cinematic to get us to to the TV station is the next location I remember one of my first meetings or one of my early meetings at naughty dog was with M and she was who's a a lead designer at naughty dog and she had spent a lot of time figuring out how Seattle would be flooded in the future so a lot of the actual flooding you see is is semi accurate to how it would happen if there was that much water happening M was the one that pitched Seattle initially because she she felt that it had the most kind of unique locations that we could move through and had a lot of verticality within the city let's go get Leah look this is the foreshadowing unpregnant scene this is my least favorite part of my performance I'm not kidding nauseous perform it's very it's it really every time I see it I'm just like it's not good is that your Achilles heal there's a lot hiding behind walls and um yeah that no you can hear the puke splashing on the ground I did hear that they helped me there and that again it's another one of those things where like the audio department let let me listen to like several versions of puke hitting the ground and and picking one E I always feel like whenever I have to act like I'm throwing up I always start dry heaving cuz once you get that and you're like like a cat with a furball yeah here's my big moment this is your big performance here she is do you say that because that body is much taller than hie everything is those people listening um how's a tiny tiny tiny little poon pable yeah these scenes these scenes are really hard really hard to write which because again we're trying to make it a character moment but give you enough information to go forward in the clue chain towards finding who you need and giving you yeah new information so it doesn't feel repetitive right we're opening up the world progressively with each sort of expository beat as well there this really nice beat at the end here where like Dena calms Ellie down and takes the pictures from her it's all of them you just you could it's really it's really nuanced to hear what you're doing Ashley but there's just this like anger that's starting to Bubble up as you look at this stuff and like look at their [ __ ] Smiles smil there it is just looking so happy there she is that's her Laura Bailey that's the one killed him and that's the the Las ofos 2 theme which is like a reverse version of the Las ofos one theme that Gustavo created for for this hey hey there tiger okay you see it how you it's yeah support India in route to the TV station repeat support India in route yeah we should get going is that you hie that voice I was just wondering that myself you later I think that might have been you yeah oh this is the the mask break I remember just fighting I was like I just have to make sure her hands never touch the mask ined I remember talking to you about this Neil like you like it's like she's it's like she's committing suicide in front of you is like what it is as far as you know she is yeah and so that's where that reaction came from was he was like she's killing herself in front of you is what it looks like to you I'm immune on pregnancy here got [Music] it yeah it's just this is where the the obsession I think this is the first time it's really getting in between them that there is now personal conflict starting to form come on yeah there's a real standoff towards the end of this scene too hie do you remember this was your first week at naughty dog and we had an outline some of the major beats were there and you had the idea of like what if we made Dina pregnant yeah cuz we were the the I think it was at my first day and the problem we were trying to solve was we want these two girls to go to Seattle together we want to have Ellie to have this conduit to talk about her feelings and maybe this thing to pull her back but how do we keep how how can we narratively hold Dena back so that Ellie can do a bunch of these missions alone because so much of this is about the singularity of the obsession and the loneliness of that and how hard it is to be alone in this world um okay and I just threw it out there's let's knock her up what's interesting too with um if you think about the first game over the course of the journey with Joel and Ellie is they slowly open up more to each other and reveal more of their secrets uh and these characters are kind of doing the same thing they're both holding back on secrets so even though it's a very angry scene they're revealing everything to each other you were telling the truth Maria and yeah [ __ ] and J are the only ones who know I'll just speak the subtext for all these scenes please do new I found this scene really hard cuz it was one of the I mean we literally I you have two very like big reveals or reactions that were that could have been like really soapy if I did it wrong you know it's like the I'm pregnant and also like the chemical burn you know like that that's really tough CU I remember we talked a lot about that which is um you just you just thought your friend was going to die in front of you you thought you might have to shoot them in front opens so you have this moment of like sadness relief and also by the way I'm pregnant a lot of the times when Ellie's in severe conflict she like what one of the things that I find very relatable is like suddenly she loses eye contact like it just goes inward everything just goes into this inward rage I'm pregnant that is so nuanced and I don't know how you could really pull this off in a in a game a decade ago maybe because there's so much beautiful facial that that you do that they're able to capture yeah I I I I feel like I talk about this all the time like this supposed to do now game I I don't think would have had the impact or or any of that without I mean there's so many people that make up the performance that you end up seeing and playing late few I feel like you can give it your all but if you don't have the right people that are sitting there for I don't know how I mean years and years aren't it's sculptors it's animators it's lighting artists even if if you don't get the right lighting the performance doesn't come through right uh and it all that stuff just takes a lot of effort and iteration like so much iteration to get it right and to just to to try to that moment we felt on the stage to draw it out in the CG character is a lot of work so much work to really nail the anxious avoidant attachment style it's gorgeous it's like we all understand you know the way she handled it it's like like almost like a religious artifact or something that there's like it's it's it's like a medium it's like a connection to Joel yeah well it is right cuz we tie it to every flashback yeah I love that the attachment to Joel is through music it's funny over the course of shooting this how long did how long did it take to shoot just like three years yeah three years well actually we shot the trailer where you play guitar before we even made Uncharted 4 cuz we had started working on this game and then um the game went on pause for two years before we picked it back up hey look Ellie's learning hey one of the things I really appreciate about your performance Ashley is how you're able to so seamlessly jump between these different ages and different levels of Innocence that this character has thanks just need to build up your count I also know why watch this I'm like that guitar is so expensive why why you just leaving it leaving it out there you wanted to show how like uh how did Ellie learn how to swim cuz that was such a big plot point in the first game you should right just it's just nice to see things were okay for a while between these two I remember feeling oh this is a good this is a good thing to be back into like it's we're jumping into summer we're jumping into like you said when when things were good this is a culmination of so many things right so for this moment of just Ellie's love of space of Joel wanting to make this like moment just beautiful for her her Walkman okay and this idea that Ellie sometimes can has such a strong imagination and can go into her own head wow actually started with the comic book The American Dreams comic book so when she looked at the Raj's arcade she was able to pick picture it with like children running around it's like the idea that she can she's so in love with the old world that um she does whatever she can to kind of live in it happy birthday kiddo and that's we got the idea to what is this really go in her head and make you feel as if she's traveling to space to find take it there is such a unique nervousness anticipation and joy um that comes with a parent giving their kid trying to give their kid the perfect gift and if they like it it's the best feeling in the world if they don't it's terrible it'll be worth it close your eyes and um for people familiar with the first game uh the the DLC of Left Behind there's a a big parallel here for when Ry tells Ellie close your eyes and she makes her picture this arcade game it's it's like as if these two people just know Ellie so well of what would make the perfect gift for her seconds guidance is internal 12 11 10 9 ignition sequence and uh again our lighting team that's such an awesome CU there's so much that needs to be conveyed here which is lighting and so they're animating these lights um and then changing the reflection on the glass it's a lot of tech here a lot of careful crafting to get this moment I also love that we're just with Ellie in this moment you know it's like you just need Gustavo to do this little riff that's it and it takes it over the top oh I just the scene is is so beautiful but so sad to me just because it's because I I know know what's coming and just seeing Joel trying so hard to reconnect and regrow this relationship with Ellie again um you can see his guilt you can feel at least shame it's like but yeah I watch it and I think it's such a beautiful scene but there's that level underneath it are you fing me heartbreaking to me it was really important for us to have um these happy memories um that are obviously mixed with like some negative feelings she has about Joel and the choices that he's made but ultimately I believe she the the the positive the happy memories overwhelm the negative yeah well I think Ellie is is so driven by her own shame and guilt and you need to know why it's because there was something worth saving there was something there was a true loss here and and part of that is her own decision to emotionally protect herself by distancing herself from Joel but it had a cost really oh that's we and no matter how happy a sequence we have it's just this lie and this choice that Joel made is hanging over these characters as a reminder for Ellie is like you can't fully let this thing go awkward let's get a move on I really don't want to talk about this right now it's always so exciting to see because obviously when we're shooting this we're on a sound stage and I picture us being there but it's always so much better when I finally see it in the game it's always such a better version of it than I had in my mind more puking this is you could really hear the puke splashing this this one I I this one I feel more comfortable with hey how hot do I look right now me to be um fixing some kind of computer and then puking in the middle really proves how much uh Ellie loves Dena because going up to someone that just puked and getting close to them that's a lot I mean to be fair she did stay up all night tracking the radio stuff but she she also puked like listen if I had to date one I think I think Dena oh for sure for sure I would I would steer clear of the a v maybe Tommy got to him maybe what about her there's this moment again we don't Ellie doesn't just there's a moment where she looks to Dena and then she realizes like how much Dina's been doing the numers you could see the appreciation in her face the T Station I remember this cuz I felt so bad because the way you were just playing it you were just so sick but you were like I feel like I need to pull my weight since I had called you a burden and I felt like such a piece of [ __ ] this move right here of like scooting in and this back rub thing is such an Ashley move well it's also because we couldn't get too close because then we'd stick together otherwise she would have held me yeah [Music] look last night was [Music] stupid casualties reported at 14 all available units report over this is s 13 unit Le nearby how many scars you got over lone ma trespass trespass and this was again we wanted to leave Dena behind because we wanted this Ellie by herself just these really lonely Pursuits uh and it was I felt like it was really it was really hard to justify how we're going to pull it off but I I felt like this scene does a good job of it CHS Dina tries like even if she feels like [ __ ] she wants to be there to help Ellie [Music] okay in The Last of Us there's a lot of um totems that come to represent certain people whether it's Joel's watch Ellie's switchblade the guitar that's sh shared between Ellie and Joel and uh now it becomes this bracelet that Dina gives Ellie as a good luck charm it's like this this hamsa which is a very Middle Eastern thing that uh was very much in my family yeah okay yeah I love that I love that she gives it to her for wait it will keep her safe it's a ham and an evil eye within it it's for good luck I don't believe in look did we ever establish how Dena got that whether that that was from her sister I think it was from her sister but yeah that's what's in my mind but I don't know if we ever expc he say that there a lot of like foreshadowing here too of like the splitting up and then later the splitting up at the farm oh this is the scene that everybody hates us for the great mislead the great mislead yep I guess we should talk about that um when we released that first trailer for the game a lot of people guessed that Joel was dead and we were worried that after that point it's just it'll be too obvious so how can we throw them off the scent and that's why we came up with the idea of um swapping Joel and Jesse here which um I have mixed feelings about it in hindsight it got people excited about something that wasn't there and um you know our motivation was in the right place of trying to protect the story but didn't maybe think it through of how it might upset some people I remember when that trailer came out then everybody I knew assumed that then it meant I was going to die right and which then we just leaned into with other trailers yeah yeah and everybody was like texting me being like it's oh my God you die like and they were like it's so embarrassing for you I was like what wait oh I I can't say anything and I couldn't I was just like lol didn't come Al LOL haha meanwhile I think when the trailer came out we were in the studio that day we were doing Bo and so we were like watching all the and I was like yeah uhoh I also like that we get to establish you know Jesse's in charge but we never get to see why what why is this guy so good at what he does and now we get to see it and get to experience it in gameplay okay yeah and then The Last of Us unlike Uncharted we don't real as much on set pieces especially big stuff like this but this was such a climactic level um that we called rescue Jesse said we wanted this climactic driving sequence where they crash in the water okay and then um there was a lot of debate of like design wise do we want to walk all the way back to the theater so decided against it so this was just to set the tone that Ellie and Jesse got away they're not being actively chased and this is just a little trick that we do is pull the camera away from them and then that allow us to cut to where we need to place them [Music] also an interesting Dynamic that we talked a lot about this like this triangle between uh Ellie Jesse and Dena and the thing we really didn't want to do is any sort of jealousy about ardina and Jesse going to get back together like it was it was never about that oh my God but it was just more just Ellie feels isolated you okay and in some ways she I I'm I'm curious to hear what you think Ashley but I think she kind of wants to be she doesn't want to be part of this reunion and she want yeah she just wants to dwell on what's next yeah I mean that's how I feel like I was trying to play it because I can relate to that when you're like going through something and you're like I don't want to go through this with anybody else because it's going to be dark so I'm just going to do it myself heard you s that sequence takes us to one of the flashbacks there's a whole history with Joel and how Ellie feels about about Joel and what Joel did in the hospital and she doesn't let Dina into any of that this is just their own personal thing that she's carrying and she's still wrestling with that after his death Ellie is is very not great at talking about her feelings which I think is why she's on this Mission because she's not using her words to be I just get her a gift and be done with it want that's uh very much a parallel to the first game where um after the David sequence and Ellie's lost and thought and then it's like Joel saying Ellie Ellie I think like Ellie has like this some OCD thing where she gets fixed on things and she shuts the world out anyway I love how how funny Jeffrey is in this scene mhm he's such a yent all shooting up there right oh just some stragglers Ella got to try out my scope this was a fun scene how'd you like it yeah feels good the two adults don't really understand what's going on which is Ellie is like this resentment or this curiosity whatever it is about what Joel did is is growing and this thing that she thought she could let go she can't and they just attribute it to like oh teenager she's being a teenager there's that music store down there I bet they got guitar stuff maybe you should just take him out for an ice cream maybe you guys should just hang out sweep anyway I love how he did that lane and I love the tapping of his foot under the table what you say yeah sure Joel whatever he's so excited and that's our he's like I did my job yeah the the engineering of this scene it was important to show that the constant cost yeah of having not made a cure okay and here we have these two runaways from Jackson that have succumbed to their infection and one more reminder for Ellie that things could have been different thanks yeah but she wouldn't be here we're also ignoring one of my favorite exchanges in the whole game which is realizing that Joel does not know that Ellie is gay at this point which comes right before this oh my God that's right where he just assumes there's something going on between her and Jesse and she's like she's like sure for sure totally yeah it's like he sees her but there's like a little bit of um he he can't quite fully see the full her Jackson is a wonderful place but we got tired of hearing the stories of people suffering everywhere else these are some of the hardest scenes to do where there's just a lot of exposition and making it seem natural like as if she's right reading this note for the first time and reacting to it and again YouTu did just such a fantastic job of just I always feel like I'm just watching these characters Adam and Sydney I love the lighting here just the way it's framed and silhouetted it's so simple planks so pretty only they were immune right that look it's like she's trying to egg you on to start this conversation let's let's go get Tommy and we can get these bodies back to Jackson no no let's talk about this right now after you took me out of the Firefly Hospital you said there were dozens of people like me this is the moment he's been dreading right being confronted headon again with this lie yeah it's with the to I've never met another immune person before if you small details like we had to do different versions of the tattoo you could see she she's got it outlined it's not filled in yet at this stage do you believe that there's something about a a child confronting their parent the standing in their power and how trepidacious even though like she has the conviction of her argument right but just how question it still is a thing to stand up to your parent and see me as an adult why did you pull me out of there I was still what he's doing here is is kind of [ __ ] up though cuz he gas lights her he's like he's saying is like you're bringing this up now next to these bodies and he's making her feel shame for having just brought up this topic maybe if you just would have given them more time they could have figured something out there was no cure that is what I've been telling myself there's nothing that could help these people or anybody like how many times have I told myself this like if she ever asks this is what I will tell her I know you wish things were different I wish things were different but they ain't and he just shuts it down mhm again it's such great performance with very little dialogue but you could see how it's just breaking her heart because she doesn't believe any of this no is there something else you'd like to reash no no because you'll just lie about it yeah that to me is the greatest sin and the way you're delivering that no it's like there's a challenge to him like okay that's what you want to say then that's we'll go with that yeah cuz it's just like no I don't want to rehash anything else cuz you're just not going to tell the [ __ ] truth again I gave you a chance yeah yeah ending [Music] images oh I I like um your action here Shannon which is use your teeth to cut the the thread yes same did I do that you did yeah that adds up there's so much survivalist Intimacy in this game yeah he's a good guy mhm why didn't you tell him there's so much you could read out of those faces MH yeah there you go what about this anything worthwhile there's that [ __ ] M this is this is where the conflict starts to Bubble back up between these two it makes it so much more sad because it's like just stick with Dina look how you have love and care it's so interesting because this what the last of us is about it's like within this room right now you have like two kinds of love there's this very positive one with Dena and this kind of negative one of like I got to get the people that hurt the person I love Joel you're going to go now yeah and right now the negative one is trumping the positive one just wait for Jesse to rest up she could be gone by then she's got to make the lamb stop screaming you know we know her location and she's using Tommy as an excuse in in very minor way now in a much more significant way later and it's it's funny it's like all these like Maria Tommy and now Dena realize I I can't convince her otherwise she's just going to go do it so all I could do is support her well it's addiction narrative right it's like you have to wait until they bought him out and it's the foreshadowing that eventually Dena says I can't do it anymore oh Hotline Miami or is uh this this lady is so famously known as Vita girl oh yeah she's got her PS v I'm Nora sure yeah this scene was already kind of like laying out hints that we're in the hospital even if Ellie's trying to avoid violence it's going to find her right so she doesn't mean to kill this person [ __ ] you got to respect her efficiency though I mean one shot one shot Wonder mhm no looking back either straight to gameplay oh yeah this don't scream I mean Norah Norah's put that [ __ ] down pretty smart in the scene yeah is that she knows she needs to get under Ellie's skin to just rattle her so she could get away you remember me but she still doesn't know who Ellie is is until the next scene you remember me what do you [Music] want Abby was here earlier where'd she go I love all these scenes where like Ellie's trying to be like Joel she's trying to interrogate people the way Joel would and there's always something a little off about it yeah I mean it's and it's also think about letting you go sometimes I feel like we can forget that she's only 19 right and she like she doesn't want to hurt anybody unnecessary [ __ ] but just going on this journey is like you can't you're not going to be able to help it yeah I feel like each time you still hear a scream she kills somebody it's not what as easy as it was kind of for Joel because each death feels like it's a leave something with her yeah yeah that little [ __ ] got what he deserved you [ __ ] help trespasser somebody please where we wanted Ellie to use her superpower which is her immunity to get out of these like precarious situations I remember the establishing of the geography was tricky here and like how do we separate these two characters yeah how do you spot the goal right is this um progression that with each one of these like Revenge kills we wanted Ellie to lose more and more of her Humanity in a way that she doesn't even understand what what is happening to her so you could see a lot of this I love how you play this which is you're amping yourself up you kind of know what you're going to have to do here and having the willpower again to hurt someone to such a degree yeah there's a bit of a trying to stall a little bit like maybe there's some other way out of this there are no fireflies anymore where's Abby yeah now we're at a point where she thinks all she needs is Abby to feel better about the whole thing and that's where it feels like she you you I can make it you can feel that she's still a kid because she's looking for this thing to try to fix it and that's not it it's interesting to think about the scene from Norah's perspective which is like how much she's willing to sacrifice to try to help her friend she's bracing herself because she she knows what's coming know like Norah is a pretty commendable character from the other side it was important to just to add this little bit of interactivity to make the player complicit in this [Music] [Music] got there's a parallel of an image there when when Ellie goes to enter Joel's house her hand shakes and then she grabs the handle and now her hand is shaking from the violence she's committed against Nora and it just shows that as much as she wants to be like Joel she's not Joel I think Joel could disassociate more just remove himself from the impact of his violence has in a way that Ellie cannot Ellie doesn't have as much practice with it she also has I think more empathy I think so I also think she needs it more than he did I think for Joel killing is practical and for Ellie it's emotional right we see Joel in the first game tortures a couple of guys and he just moves on and then Ellie just did it and okay it will forever change her yeah that's not something you can take back the torturing we've seen of Joel's has always been toward a productive purpose right it's to help or to save or to learn in a way to to be a protector and Ellie is just a destroyer love this performance this is a very expensive part of the game by the way um one of the things that live action is you get for free is putting a shirt on or taking it off in a CG world or in video games it's extremely expensive and hard and we had to ride this whole physics simulation on this shot this right here here this is so tricky to to pull off we're seeing it at the same time that Dena is seeing it like look how beat up she is look how how much he's already gone through often when you play video games your character or any of the characters in the game are impervious right they live or they die it's pretty binary and this allowing us to show the wear and tear on her body and allowing the violence to have an impact not just emotionally but also visibly um again humanizes all of the characters in this game there's so much happening there with almost no dialogue that scene is tough like taking her shirt off and exposing her and her grief there because it's not just about what she did you know like there's so much grief and she hasn't expressed anything yet right like it's the first time you really see it and so there's this urge to like care for that but then also that that anxiety of like I'm losing this person it's really painful to even watch and like talk about like it's really heavy it's just such such a universal theme there I was one of the ones yeah and the girl we talked a lot about how could Ellie draw the truth out of him and even when confronted with facts he might not say the truth it's it's what makes him ultimately do it is the threat of like I will disappear and you'll never know my fate and that's the worst thing she could threaten him with a lot of iteration on this horse animation right here trying to make it as believable as possible this hug the just the unre quied hug I've definitely had those moments with my kids where it's like they're mad at me over something you talk to me I feel like it's such a a I mean is you talk thinking of like when I was a kid it's it's so hard to reciprocate a physical hug like that when you're so angry mhm you're like I I you can't touch me right now cuz I don't know what the what I'm going to do tell me it's like I don't even I don't even know if Ellie knows what she's expecting here she just wants a more I think she just wants a more plausible story and then but there's a part of her that maybe is still in denial of what he's going to say yeah I also remember you being so patient Neil with this it was you will never see me again it was so important to just let each line land where it needed to land and the response to come when it had to come um I'll go back to jackon cuz we did this a lot of times it was this was we we all were very patient with this one I love watching your performance right here Troy of like Joel doing the math of like do I say it do I not say it and then right here he's resigned he's going to say it and she just needs to push him over the edge but look at him he's so torn so great H the first word is the hardest and he does need to spell the whole thing out for her because she knows she knows what what this meant would have killed you Ashley there's something that you did that is just so powerful it's that without even saying it just the the clutching like I can't breathe like it's it's Lally taking the air out of me and it's it's so much information to find out but something that she's always known but to actually hear it and also knowing that oh wow you have been lying to my face every time that I've asked you about this and also the purpose that she had is kind of now gone yeah well the sacrifices that all the other people made right which is like Riley and Tess and Henry and Sam and everybody along that Journey yeah yeah going that whole journey in it what was it it can't be for nothing they can't be for nothing we're [Music] done yeah I I feel like the killing of Nora was a really big turning point I feel like emotionally for Ellie because oh man I love that part just to see how much she's been through physically yeah for me this is that was one of my favorite sort of moments is so much in video games the characters feel infallible or even if they take hits they're still great you know and to show that this this isn't just an external cost this is a she's destroying herself the the Ellie and Jesse relationship is really kind of fascinating of the respect these characters have for one another and the shared love they have for [Music] Dina this was a cool shot of just showing what's at stake if we just keep pursuing this thing endlessly I aspire to be Jesse when I grow up me too yeah such a good dude she had a rough night also the idea of um Secrets right characters holding on to these secrets like the idea that she's pregnant is a secret that Jesse figures out is she pregnant and then like right it's again knowing how much Ellie wrestles with characters not telling her the truth yeah and I think so much of the wrestling with that was like I I shouldn't be the one to tell this information it's not my place to but yeah I don't want to we got to take her don't want to lie don't want to lie she needs real care and she's not going to get that yeah I know this is starting to lay track of the the choice that's coming later of um I can't just leave Tommy's rationalization now that she's like she had some time away from the torture the obsession the call of the Hunt is coming back up maybe you could the justification which again has learned from Joel yeah whittling these scenes down to just the Bare Essentials just to make them as tight as possible to get back to gameplay that was quite a bit of iteration which I feel like speaks so much to what you all do at naughty dog is like the scenes don't have a ton of dialogue and so much of it is just through looks or movements yeah we're in a privileged position and that we have the budget and the animators and like the talent that could like translate what you're doing on stage pretty much oneto one to what comes out on screen um but it does take a lot of effort let's go tell her we're Le in then no like yeah he's he's got a lot to process right it's just yeah he just found out he's a dad he just found out he's a dad and this is like this goodbye because any one of these excursions you might not come back and Ellie surrounded by all these people that want to support her and they don't quite understand the darkness of the obsession I need lock the door for us how do you leave that little punum behind I know look at her this is where the obsession completely takes over where it's like we can go for Tommy or we can go for Abby but we can't do both and Ellie rationalizes that going after Abby would be the better choice the marina here no we're taking their boat you heard them right there talking about Tommy we don't know that who else is it going to be if it is him he'll be gone by the time it's so fascinating to think about someone that just has put so much weight of like people being honest to each other and here she's lying to Jesse and lying to herself yeah I think so much of it is her own avoidance you do this I'm not saying and now Jesse just sees how how dangerous she's become in this Obsession and she's losing even him and it's so hard to lose Jess yeah and a lot of the construction of this game was these long stretches where Ellie would just be by herself so to put these scenarios where we separate her from the people that love her and wanting the player to feel as alone as she does don't come back from that Island the roughest scene in the game one of them I'm not [ __ ] going there then don't Ashley bur Patrick Fugate seeing these glimpses of this other crew are not quite quite understanding what this fight is about or what the conflict is hands up um only later just getting the other the rest of the context and this is uh Ellie trying to be Joel Ellie trying to do the the Joel technique of and this is another one of the situations where Ellie doesn't want to kill them she just wants Abby but the situation gets away from her you I love that she's just on Razor's Edge of just her emotions completely taken over yeah she definitely doesn't quite because she's inexperienced in this type of behavior she doesn't quite have the calm cool and collected way of doing it like Joel did what are you doing we wanted in this exploration of um you know the pursuit of Justice at any cost um that to show that there's always a cost and um you know in these cycle of violence there's often unintended consequences uh and the idea that Ellie inadvertently kills a pregnant woman just felt like a great metaphor for that but it definitely horrified some of the people at the studio that um heard this pitch yeah [Music] it's an interesting question of at this point in Ellie's Obsession what could she see that would make her pause that would make her seriously question after torturing Nora after leaving Dena behind you need something big yeah to wake her up and I love um how you play this panic attack attack right here and just the audio design for it as well and we do this trick when Tommy comes in um we actually recorded a line with Troy so she hears Joel for like a split second you show like all these things are just interconnected in her mind now all these like traumatic events yeah she's not built for this and just show what a good guy Jesse is it's like he went and got Tommy and said we got to hurry and get get the Ellie at the aquarium H go this was another like flue chain thing we needed to do to set up for later with Abby is the idea that Ellie has this map and in the chaos of this whole moment she dropped it and didn't even realize it it's completely covered himself no by the time we get there this whole L be Tha this is a bunch of Obsessed characters except for Jesse Jesse is the most moral character in the story um what you that all have to accept could sleep that it's time to go home take that it has to be okay if is to head homea some of them get away with it in Fall City by tomor we're doing good it's like these two they they have to convince each other hey they got what they deserved yeah but she gets to live so much so much pent up energy under that line he's still not on board he's like well there is something interesting about how like Ellie doesn't see living as the punishment it is like living with loss as the punishment it is even though it's destroying her in a weird way for Ellie like it it would almost be She's suffering so much and there's no peace but she doesn't see that enough to say I'm okay with Abby living with that level of suffering oh yeah and losing everyone she loves like I've T I've now I've made her life miserable and that would be the Triumph yeah in her mind it's like she doesn't what life she's living she doesn't know what burden she's carrying she's like any kind of life she hasn't paid the price for what she did it's funny and yet Ellie is incapable of living herself right she's incapable of it's interesting and this is Tommy just trying to make light of the whole thing can we say it's from all of us you find your own damn bribes I really like this um the relationship between Ellie and Jesse and just how much respect they have for each other I really like this moment right here how you doing Jesse's just kind of the best he's the most mature level reasonable guy and Stephen is such a cool dude such a cool dude he's just super chill and like he's kind of like a cowboy yeah and he's like so positive too he's even when he'd be like I'm real tired real tired cuz over the course of the game he went from like newly married to having triplet yeah I think like several children my friends can't get out of their own damn way it's like my friend's problems are my problems I going to just keep puts everybody else over him he would have been a great baby daddy and no good deed goes unpunished in this I love how abrupt it is do it Ellie me too get out of here stand up now [ __ ] dare shut the [ __ ] up this is one of the few scenes that Ellie and Abby are together and when we're making the game it felt like we're making two very separate games of two different casts of characters and then when they combine it was such a strange feeling toss your weapon [ __ ] no no I know why you killed Joel he did what he did to save me there is no cure because of me I am the one that you want and she doesn't get it just let him go she doesn't know what this is is about you killed my friends we let you both live and you wasted it cut the block dad baby Abby you can tell because her braid is so much shorter it's it's interesting uh in hindsight now watching how when players do this they think oh I'm just going to get a little bit of a glimpse into who she is they don't know yet you're only at the halfway point of course the zebra has comes because again this is part of the Salt Lake City Zoo where the giraffes escaped that we saw in the first game zebra played by the wonderful Chris Robbins who uh doubled for a lot of lot of stunt work as well for many characters on this game in the first game I bet nobody ever asked him to be a zebra before no but man he he did a good job of being a zebra tied up and barred wire and he's like this big former football player and he's just knocking everybody around here what I love pet just coming like what like yeah what the [ __ ] is this come on right you got her tight right and then this was originally a mini game where you had to cut the wires off of the zebra we worked on it for quite a while and just eventually did that was a long a long okay now hold still yeah right there that little slip in the mud again that's hand animated holy [ __ ] um what the [ __ ] hey wait and then it's like again it's like the the dad is acting like a child on and this was a stitch point because again the volume can only take you so far and those stitches can be really tricky but it was important in this project to always go outside the volume and just not make you a lot of games the the performers could feel really constrained like in the box and want it to feel Freer than that one more lean keeps talking about they found her in the tunnels she has an old bite mark on her arm no signs of infection that can't be they're already running tests on her but you got to get down there now there's like this glimmer of hope with Ellie and revealing that we're in that same giraffe location all this beauty and wonderment happened in the first game um stick to the POV of the character you're playing as so this was like why we're coming into this conversation late it's because you're hearing it when Abby hears it she's a child not some petri dish you think I Merl dandas this is my first day meeting Merl situation and you're okay with killing her no I'm okay like Merl and I had so many conversations about how conflicted she was about what has to happen and then years later to visit the moment when she was arguing with Jerry are you telling me this is how it's going to be I always like that we get more insight into these characters to buy in and what if this was I like seeing Marlene advocate for Ellie behind the scenes cuz she's so resolved in the first game and the show and and to see that actually privately she was advocating all of that is Justified with this one act if this was your daughter and uh the parallel here with Jerry from the first game is he he's repeating everything that Ellie says right outside on the giraff sequence quence in the first game which like all the sacrifices we've made it can't be for nothing he's making the same exact argument Ellie does thank you and then Abby walks in to give her dad an out look Marlene and Marlene is done arguing especially in front of his daughter thank you I'm going to go tell Joel why the ethical thing Marlene does here is like I have to tell Joel which is ultimately her fatal mistake yeah I guess Jerry's fatal mistake too but he allowed it to happen you're doing the right thing she sees how conflicted her dad is is and she tries to tell him it would be okay I would want you to do it to me and he can never admit that he wouldn't you don't think so do the surg I think he would that's what I love about this it's like but he never says it yeah he just kind of has that look of maybe he's just glad that it's not her yeah is he still in the [ __ ] building Abby we can't spare any of characters from seeing the trauma firsthand yeah Joel with Sarah Ellie with Joel Abby with Jerry it's just this the share trauma between these characters [Music] and now events are set in motion and now we get to see the other side of what happened after Abby kills Joel please stop please don't forget again this is such a collaborative process I don't even remember where some ideas come from if it was editorial I think it was editorial yeah but to see the scene again from aby's perspective and now get the Fuller context which is the whole concept of this game of like you have one notion of how things go down and then we give you more context and make you question your initial feelings about it what are you doing cleaning up you remember how hard Pat pushed um aleandro Alejandro he's right we can't have Lo yeah Al good but Pat specifically would just kind of lose himself in these moments look at my face [ __ ] your face you should been guarding the upstairs like I told you to move back up calm down or back the [ __ ] up calm down you going to shoot me stop we're done there's your fatal mistake not cleaning up your mess and now back to day one this is where I think the penny drops for most players that oh my God I'm GNA have to replay this entire sequence from the other side this was fun um city of thieves was highly ins irational for the first game written by uh Game of Thrones co- showrunner David benof and I wanted to put in the game and I just started working with Craig Mason on a TV show and he's friends with him like can you ask them he's like oh of course and within five minutes I had like a text message like yeah no problem put in the game I love that Abby and Manny are roommates that they're just Bros gender means nothing it's crazy because we were filming it I always thought of Manny as like really fun loving he is he's this really fun guy right I hadn't even like registered the fact that he had in that scene like he had spit on Joel and so when I played it and he had done that I was so angry at the character that it took so long to remember that he was a cool guy a cool guy why would it be up to Owen the irony that Ashley Burch plays Mel uh has to play pregnant while you Laura Bar Le were pregnant from a writing standpoint this is this is hard you know because we're introducing a brand new cast of characters that we're asking you to care about and we're building a mission that a quest about Owen that's not really related to the Revenge Quest you've just played half the game with um but there's just a lot of track we have to lay to then get the interesting payoffs just showing how close these people that came from the fireflies are that despite that they're in a group that's very tribalistic they have their own tribe within them and they can be very upset with each other but there's a protectiveness of their own group this was hard on the de side of um you know we we captured the scene and we're like okay here you see a tower now you're going to pass the gate and then we had to build all this real estate of this drive uh that's based on how much performance we have from you all oh god I didn't even think about that yeah and we iterated a lot on just this layout and this turn and like okay once should the trucks stop and then have to add all the secondary motion to you all like cuz we're not in an actual truck when we shoot this well we all just kind of did this little Shimmy Shake as we were in that though we did shoot this with roach the dog roach the dog we did remember when roach would come on set in his moap suit and in uh in his moap suit playing Alice got here and the whole set would just right fall in love with Roach take selfies with roach it's that's seriously like roach days were just they were the best days they were the best um there was a originally a storyline where Mel was actually closer with Jerry because they worked so closely together and there was like some level of contention historical contention between Mel and Abby for his affection right and we scrap that because we just Mel needed to be so likable because she's such a uh hindrance to aby's happiness poor Danny this is where uh Abby gets such a relief that it's not Owen cuz this whole time there's this dread building that she thinks she's about to see Owen's body where's Owen I don't [Music] know a few days back there were some scar sightings held by the marina character model has incredible arms ow yes I was just looking at her arms I mean everybody talks about aby's arms but yeah's arms where's the sleeper with a bullet in his stomach in this scene we finally establish what's about to become Abby's next goal which is rescue ow no going um and we come back to the theme of this about Owen this uh series happen which is tried but he gave me that [ __ ] look and then he told me to keep quiet about it one more example of the tribe within the tribe of she's telling them stuff they should not know because she trusts them she cares for them more than she cares for the Wolves the wlf where is Isaac now we got to go see the big man last I heard he was um in the apartments it's kind of cool to I build this guy up up and then give you a glimpse of the person that runs the wlf this was another one of those sequences where we didn't want to be confined to the volume if I remember correctly we um we mapped out uh with tape on the floor like this floor then you go into just a marked area that's going to be the elevator and then you come out and the whole place is marked differently when you're in Isaac site sir Abby maner here [Music] and here we have the fantastic and very scary Jeffrey Wright don't let him fall asleep there's a dehumanization that happens um when you're in conflict with another group for so long and there's so many like retributions that they get to a place where you can torture them because they're so dehumanized and we get to see how easy it is for Isaac now that he just sees him as as pure enemies we met Jeffrey Wright because his son was such a big fan of the first game and talking to him I offered him this role and he was very excited to take it on it was it was fun to work with him even if a little intimidating at times just because his grally voice is so so creepy what's going on boss these small skirmishes can't keep going like this then what this was another obstacle we're throwing in aby's way which is um in the past Isaac has given her a lot of rope because of how capable she is to pursue Joel um but here he can't afford to have anybody leave because they're going to go all out to kill every last scar as he would call it sir would try attacking their Island I remember in like early iterations of the script having a bunch of scenes not a bunch but having scenes with a big storm Isaac use it to where he was very much a mentor for her and almost like a surrogate Father Figure as she was growing up early versions of the story or just in trying to shrink this Behemoth down we um end up cutting but uh the other thing you could see here is uh Jeffrey Wright has a limp uh and the reason for that is if you look at the concept art he has an amputated leg uh no secrets between there's no opportunity to really see it but um the limp is still there someone okay uh and then we did so many takes and Jeffrey insisted on eating an apple on every take just to make it authentic so he ate a bunch of apples to protect to Laura's point we we wrote scenes I remember drafting scenes where he's coming in as trying to be sort of a Tommy like a father figure uh after she's lost her dad and you come to realize how intimate their relationship is um but it's something that she can she will very quickly give up in the face of Owen being in trouble and as soon as she connects with Lev again she's willing to give that up but only got one shot couldn't do it for time you get little hints of it because I feel like our relationship in this scene you can see that they've he's given her things in the past she's used to being able to get her way and the one line the way he lives it like stop gossiping about it like the idea that you guys need to stop like being this like Salt Lake City crew you're part of a bigger group now there are things more important and we'll get to the bottom of it and even here he's like saying when the time comes we'll do what's right yeah yeah at this point you you find him to be I think torturing aside like he's a very fair leader with her he's given her a lot and then now he expects her to step up for ultimately what a three-day assault the way he behaves again this is like a a broken record which is uh he loves his people mm he's going to go commit atrocities because of how much he loves the people that look up to him he's going to burn a village filled with children right no way I would kill Danel over some scar right what no Abby don't I'll be back by morning you just got to cover me till then Isaac will kick your ass not before the assault you heard Abby doesn't care about this assault in the same way Joel didn't care about finding a cure it's just about the people that are close to us and now we head into her head for flashback the most fun scenes to shoot stop it this was fun watching you too be so playful they were like a little respit from all of the the horror the horror that we were shooting that again establishing Abby has vulnerabilities right not just uh emotionally but she has a deep deep deep fear of heights which then gives Lev an opportunity to help her interesting um these characters that here with Owen and then the other time with Joel when he takes the light to the Museum of get these gifts that they give the people that they love um and here it's like he brought her to show her this beautiful aquarium as a show of his love well he's trying to write in the same way as as Joel after David he is trying to get back to the Abby that was he's trying to get back to the dynamic that they had really and he's putting all of his heart into bringing her joy in the hopes that he can get confirmation that that person is not dead it's getting late yeah we had had these long talks about how Abby like is so serious and doesn't want to doesn't want to joke around she's not a jokester and I think Pat just like took that and ran because every single time we would shoot he would try to make me laugh as we were shooting as like a challenge I'm serious I will break up with you Owen I always love you don't Owen this was like a nice short and sweet little cinematic also a fun thing to shoot when you're like coming up from underwater I don't know and then I remember you have to do this prep as if you're diving and transition in and out of gameplay uhhuh I like this these this these kind of air pockets that would still have remained here huh has you held your breath a lot while shooting some of these scenes I love the scene yeah this this whole sequence is for this scene yeah like but poor Owen loves Abby so much and she's just so stuck with this well grief I guess that she can't let go the the Injustice that she can't let go you could argue that what Owen is going through through is a smaller version of what Abby is going through right like he's in love with this girl he's fixated on her he's ready to go on this journey with her and risk things for her and all he wants in return is a little bit of love and she just can't she can't this is just she's not the person she was anymore it's this this notion that somehow if she's happy she's disrespecting the loss of her father yeah you me soow D no she can't allow herself to be too happy is it this and he's still trying to make light of it look look at him he's so cute you're disgusted by it Patrick fuget is a very Charming Man very I'm sorry don't be sorry talk to me just let him in I know all the lead have dried up but the Joel's still out there you know I know and we get the sense that this is not the first time they're having this conversation no this is the end of their intimate relationship right he's going to try and move on this with Mel it's not going to work out this is the breakup scene not how he envisioned this moment going I have a feeling what about you I like kind this idea like like look what I brought you I brought you underwater what else can I do hang there are seals swimming around just not enough so sad I mean it's it's very much a parallel to what we see a much worse version of this in Ellie on the farm with Dina yeah I'm sorry I told you already don't be sorry so this scene also the sequence had to do a lot of work because we are once again resetting you have to learn where she and Owen are in their relationship uh feel that tension feel the family Dynamics Owen he's so surprised to see her hey hey is everything all right yeah I love the set man the set took so many iterations to get right but it was it was really important that it felt gorgeous justify why this guy has H up in here for so long this is our this is our Christmas episode taking that view a thing you might not appreciate until you you sort of really play this is this aquarium had to meet so many different needs because it's in so many different levels and so to make sure that all of those could work together was um painstaking especially for the layout designers yeah well try that well the view is nice oh whatever Philistine you want me to lie yes obviously uh she's into this Christmas thing again look at this effort he puts in yeah there's this a beautiful tension between these characters that still clearly very much love each other but he did this for Mel right this is for Mel right but look how excited he is that ab's here I know he's trying to move I doubt I doubt he's this excited when Mel's here you don't deserve poor Mel but I think he wants to be right I think he wants to move on with Mel he wants he knows she's inaccessible well yeah Abby's a dead end why are you in such a good mood am I I love that he misreads this like he thinks this is somehow about him and now he's going to convince her to stay but she's in a good mood because I found Joel's brother they found Joel's brother he's at a settlement out in Wyoming how do you know that the fireflies who served with them got picked up at the wall I thought he' quit like a decade ago yeah so have these guys heard from him since it's a lead I got to see it through okay but you know that he even if he is there and you do find him he might not know where Joel is right right because at this point we're already canonically he's already starting to have issues killing scars everyone's on board and we're not really talking about it but there's some track getting laid he's losing his taste for violence I like that he was the last person that she went to go talk to about this many people go off base he already did [ __ ] who's more about Justice than Isaac he knows what Joel's done hey we're doing this together right I love that that look it's like you promised me if we get like any clue you promised me he doesn't want to be the the last hold out but he's like Jesse he's never never not going to go if his people are going oh the Paris sequence this scene oh yes was this was this one of the first things we sh yeah CU it was for Paris games yeah we Paris games week yeah M we shot this way in advance I think it was like a day or two before we shot this that I'm like we could do this all as one shot and like I had sketched out like these kind of story boards real quick and then uh came up with this hazy plan with u matth NE aalan our cinematographer for this [Music] game like take after take of getting dragged by your arms uh this was another one where um we actually strung Laura up with we had like two ropes one that was around your neck to just gave you a little bit of tension that you could lean into as much as you wanted and then another one that held your body up in the air yeah oh but man this was so much work and like we scrutinized the tiniest details in the scene when this came out originally people thought that she was uh Anna Anna she was Ellie's mom they we were watching The Narrative of how Ellie came to be these uh seraphites that at times you might feel sorry for them and you see them getting tortured and then and then see that you know oh wait a minute uh here the lead seraphites in the scene is played by Emily swallow and small world she's of Mandalorian Fame acting along Pedro Pascal and uh later we find out this is a bastardization of of this thing of like Freedom so they may know my love wasn't meant as like dismal them free them that they may know oh M the intro of Victoria Grace plays Yara yeah this scene has a a lot of heavy leting it's introducing like two major characters of Yara and Lev Yara again this this this idea that keeps repeating in the story of like the tribe within a tribe that even though these are all aby's enemies saraph fites somehow they have it in for these two kids and again this is one of those weird opportunities I know it sounds dark but like in seeing the violence against these kids it's much easier to immediately understand why Abby makes the choices she makes they may be their enemy but these are kids getting hurt lighting a scene is really hard uh lighting a scene that's one take where the camera's constantly moving around in 360 degrees and making sure all those angles still look good is close to impossible so Kudo toar lighting team the face change is she the face change of flow blood the water there's so many things that um done improperly would take you out of the scene uh and then we spend a lot of even the hands right there remember we spend so much time making sure you see the tension in the hands as she's suffocating the shirt and make sure the short felt wet and it stick into her skin and it's a little bit translucent because it's wet that's the kind of detail that naughty dog is crazy about demons are coming so this is the introduction of Ian Alexander and a fun thing to watch as you watch his face throughout the game is I think it was um lead character Ashley Sadowski came up with it but if you look at his scars one of them is a little crooked uh and wobbly and the idea that like you there's physical representation of his hesitation in this religion even on the scars on his face and yet I think the beautiful thing with him is that he remains a Believer all the way through yeah his faith heartly SA him right cuz he saw the Beauty and the intention another scene that just I say this over and over but it's um such beautiful soft [Music] lighting right and so at this point they've worked together for as long as they need to but they're off to go on their separate missions they don't need to be friends come help me with this that taking off of the shirt is so hard I can't tell people how hard it is the raindrop again this window were difficult um my high school friend has become a renowned plastic surgeon uh Jacob stiger uh and he gave me some advice here on this injury and what you would need to do to treat it right this is also a reminder that while Abby took a different path she comes from doctors from care she understands the body even if she never particularly prioritized it Victoria and Ian were great in this just how Ian has to play both being scared for his sister and just angry at this wolf that he has to work with what's your name this is a recurring um theme throughout both games that the idea of given someone's name is a way to show you trust them thanks for cutting me down love this theme again I like the conflict of leaving them knowing you're dooming them oh this is she thinks I'll give him the warning and I'll enough s getss a lot of traffic whatever shape she's in you need to get out of here by tomorrow I don't need your [ __ ] help at the lighting on the hair this game is still very impressive ah this scene turned out to be a bit more controversial than we anticipated the irony here is as much as this is the the Counterpoint sex scene to Ellie sex scene we don't oh I guess we do show a little more we show a little bit more yeah um didn't well we'll get to that in a second but uh I love I love this interplay between you two fix and um I see yeah we really wanted to give Pat something meaty pass and this this monologue which he just I for my money knocked it out of the park Danny's dead of like visualizing this moment where he just he just can't do this violent thing anymore it's not him you want to tell me what happened I like that she's been strung up and beaten and almost killed and we were that's none of that's important right now Camp it's just a couple scars and I just got to come in and sit down and watch him work hard and he goes down and his weapon's right there this idea of the tribe within a tribe and um doesn't go for it there's no secrets between these two instead he turns to me and he's old theidea that he right he's just been sitting here drinking conflicted and I mean he's about to leave his baby mom that's how much he can't stay in this place he feels like he's losing his soul and this this look right here it's like there's a part of Abby that that knows what he's saying is true but that that sense of Duty to this group that has taken care of them it's still there but starting to erode I couldn't do it of course Danny gets in my [ __ ] face we're watching her maturity in real time especially having come up if he wants seeing two seraphites up close and saving them too so I grab it and then I like that that there's so much like unspoken between them that's about to come to the surface of like Abby thinks he's so naive and he thinks what she did was so awful but clearly they've never talked about it until now and then there's the underlying love they have for each other and obviously attraction it's just it's all like it's so messy I I like the messiness of this relationship that I don't give a [ __ ] about anymore and it would have been like I know our goal here is to create empathy for Abby um to show you the other side of this journey and and this this definitely was a risk to say okay she's gnaas have a sort of affair with this guy that got this other girl pregnant her friend the fireflies aren't this primal thing that's going on between them just overpowers logic a lead and to me that was more important to create empathy is to show how human they are than to just make them righteous or right the whole time well they're trying to they're trying to Define good in a gray world what about now that means they have to make messes this little pause it's a nice bit of acting she'll be safe here okay we'll talk in the morning when you're sober don't do that do what treat me like I'm [ __ ] insane you feel the same he knows her more than she knows herself if the fireflies are in Santa Barbara I go the opposite [ __ ] Direction the resentment that she has for the fireflies because in her mind that's part of the reason her dad died is what they failed her yeah they they failed in every way yeah sorry I grew up you should try it it's just uh they insulting and just oh yeah how do I do thaten this this notion that's like your your best friends can hurt you the most cut into them I could torture them until they're crying now and the the flash of violence here of anger is like Abby never talks about it but clearly she is haunted but what she did to Joel yeah and he's finally seeing that yeah and then once they touch it's over I think they're both incredibly lonely characters yeah yeah he's in this other relationship but clearly he's lonely and he's been longing for her and I know people ask this question why why show this why you could end the scene right here um I disagree though but I disagree as well because I think it's important to show the vulnerability how vulnerable these characters can be with each other but there's also again it's it's messy and dirty and loving and a little violence at the same time my philosophy on sex scenes is you should take them to the point where you've gotten all the information needed or the emotional Evolutions needed and in this case I think you needed to see her conflicted and give in yeah surrender to the [Music] moment this was a concept we came in quite late of showing a nightmare it's showing that now that this nightmare that she's having about her dad is now switched and uh this like burn that Owen has on on his back this was another Ashley schadowski idea that um like we do environmental storytelling we could do stuff on the body through scars or disfiguration that tells you a story I love that at her core Abby is a protector mhm she's Joel she's Joel yeah right so now the dread she's too late don't come any closer it's me I like the the change that L goes through here like he's relieved to see her and he's ashamed that he hasn't been able to protect his sister I really like her trigger etiquette she took her finger off that trigger as soon as she heard his voice classy good job Laur good job this is little bit of Storytelling of the jacket on top of her that now she's feverish um sometimes we get these uh unintentional parallels like this one comes to mind of um Ellie and winter needing medicine for Joel mhm where are you taking and now this becomes this about to become a goal for Abby and L giving her a chance I think that one of the things about this game that I like is just keeps reminding you in how many ways we are [Music] fragile Owen this is one of the things I did for uh Owen training when I started working out for for Abby my husband Travis got me a 100 PB sandbag here had to carry and I had to carry it damn I whatever and then I got pregnant theow down it's okay this is a neat moment right these dogs have been trained to like tear scars apart and now they're here left lower the bow it's okay Abby who are these kids they saved my life I mean this is probably the first time they've ever come this this close to seraphites without fighting them this is I wonder if o right now is thinking like I mean I said not kill them we don't have to like what did this [ __ ] go this far hammer it wasn't me it wasn't me Mel's like yeah right done I don't know it doesn't look that bad it's just a little pink it's just a littley no I was going to clean it and try reset bone shattered like there's a moment here that I always find funny where like Owen tries to suggest like just cutting it and burning it what does that mean and L you make him feel like an idiot it has to come off she's a soldier you you can't take her arm we leave it it'll turn gang what I love in the scene is even though Mel has very little dialogue outside of tending to Yara you can see in her performance in Ashley bur's wonderful performance and her body language that she is very much soured to Abby since last we saw her and hopefully it's very subtly asking the question of how much does Mel know she would die from infection you [ __ ] [ __ ] make me a list I'll go to the hospital get all day to get there I don't mind it's not about you Abby she doesn't have a couple of days what if I can get you there in two hours Abby is like such a hospital singularly minded person like when she gets fixated on something nothing will get in her way I don't know anyone else like that up it's how we get around the flooding and you people can't you handle two hours probably yeah this idea of the sky Bridges and that um uh wolves never look up it's actually show it's an idea we got from our Focus test is that um we we build these elaborate levels and then we find players look left and right and almost never turn the camera upwards so this idea that they're patrolling these streets and they never look up to see these secret paths that the seraphites are using Abby oh yeah you calling Abby right now look at the way Mel's looking at him hey there's also um again it's kind of a messy theme but the idea of that we've done certain things and it feels like we can never get past them and for Owen it's like oh I got this girl pregnant does that mean why are you doing this this relationship is doomed and it could never happen that's the way Abby Sees it but for his mind it's like nothing has ever final there's always a chance for Like A New Beginning well I do that's a nice sweet little moment and Le's just like I'm not here I am not [Music] here there's so much unsaid that again we have the privilege of Na dog being able to capture the such small nuances of your performance that we don't have to rely on dialogue as much her worst fear realized can you imagine how bad that would smell I like that Abby is like let me recover from near death and Love's like I'm good let's go and he's just staring at her awkwardly it was so great on the stage looking up and just seeing him can I get a minute please okay but I'm going to keep staring at at you awkwardly I'm not going just back up one step the sequence between Abby and L used to be shorter significantly shorter and L used to be the one that died and Yara survived and it's because we saw the dynamic between you two oh really it it caused us to have this ripple effect that changed the story and eventually led to US changing the ending and having Abby survive what really spores masks on so this is my favorite level in the whole game and narratively this level had to do a lot of work not just because we were on the Run hey now we're going to learn more about sarapi culture and what this is and who Lev is but this level has to earn ultimately earn aby's um willingness to walk away from the Wolves if you die I'll be stuck here better start praying and make it she has she has to build love the banter that's forming between these two characters as they get more comfortable each other they're okay insulting each other in this funny way because they want to kill you I like that he has no idea what back gon is what's it's it's an interesting dynamic because he's he's been so um secluded from the world he knows even less than Ellie did in the first game which makes you think about like you know if we were to come back years later people that would be born years and years later like just the world we know seems more and more distant hey be a girl now from the other side they got you out here too yeah what a hole I need some medical supplies can you put me where I'm supposed to just checked in with Isaac he wants you back to the farm let me talk to Isaac talk to him in person you're going back for the next ship you're [ __ ] yeah what are you doing she's been a trying to look confident though you guys tell by my body posture give me your hands she's not yet willing to fight them she's surrendering to them they're not her enemy yet just staring daggers into his face though like are you really going to do that hey hey let me the [ __ ] out God Dam you're going to dislocate your shoulder nor Chelsea tarus um I never thought I see you on is's did a really fantastic job as Nora was important that all of you had really good chemistry that just you have to sell years of friendship and very short scenes I need some medical supplies why what what happened to him and again this just myopic Focus compartment syndrome bash forearm you're not treating him are you Mel she's not right interesting that even here that these people love each other Jes that there's tribes within a tribe within a tribe cuz she's yeah lying to Nora we haven't cleared out the lower floors yet would they have what I need build up for the scariest fight we're about to get into our uh Resident Evil homage I'll be fine she's so cool you get caught Nora yeah to do with this like this will bite you in the ass come on but all right like that she's ready to Pummel whoever it is that grabbed her this is something we'll see with uh Yara later as well which like these kids are told to stay put and they're starting to care so much for Abby they they don't stay put they're all looking for you what did you do nothing I told you to stay put I couldn't your friends are all over the place I really like this the glue that happen between this scene and the next and showing this River Rapids ride and it has very much this Apocalypse Now feeling that you know you're you're cruising through a War torn [Music] area this game is so ugly this was uh this this little sequence I think this was suggested by um Joe our editor on this game I love I love these murals [Music] yeah sometimes sometimes these like kind of connecting shots I find really beautiful just giving you a little bit of a gap in [Music] time now this shifted relationship with L and and oh yeah and just been taught to fear those dogs they just rip them apart and another example of just the beauty of animals in this world and how they represent innocence just [Music] baby just I'm staring at the animation on the fingers and how well done it is yeah well done you can go see her now if you want is she going to be okay yeah actually all this time after what they did to Joel after all the seraphites they've killed finally meeting these two kids kids just starts to put it all in perspective for Abby I know her body figures it out before her head does what happened to us what happened to us right that's the most she's going to talk about all the things that she's done maybe we stopped looking for the light maybe the idea that you know even when we fail we still have to push forward for something better that's what Owen represents I'm going to go check on the girl [Music] okay something so beautiful and sad here when we revealed the missing arm and this exchange of a smile between these two characters another time I'm going to sound like a broken record but it's just I I love showing off your performances with no dialogue it just makes our job easier as writers just leave out the writing that's the secret to good writing leave out the writing and finally she has one good night of sleep yeah but Consciousness is about to slap her in the face Owen o yeah like that Mel doesn't you're not even worth my time to talk about it changing Arrow bandages but then she snaps she's so powerless in this situation what are they fighting about [ __ ] you Yara I wouldn't leave you behind oh this was a fun be because he did just learn how to say [ __ ] you Owen invited them to come to Santa Barbara that is very Owen she's trying to be jokey and connect with Mel talked him out of going by now hoping that she doesn't know right actually I'm going with them but not if you come O what he may fall for a little act with these kids but I don't there's nothing to fall for Isaac's top scar killer suddenly had a change of heart it's such an insult right but it's like um she probably deserves it but the idea that she's only being nice to these kids to earn favor with Owen you're a piece of [ __ ] Abby you always it's so sad that she doesn't fight back because she probably agrees with her oh fully fully done with you well I think Mel is also calling into question like can can characters change can people change we see it with Joel but it happens so rarely right and so many of our characters are myopically focused and can't change no matter what so I understand why she feels like this must be [ __ ] [ __ ] but she finally feels like oh God I'm I'm doing the right thing I'm finally doing the right thing maybe I can be better and then like this right instant back to reality I like that um showing emotion in this world is somehow weakness nice shirt we had r a lot on what was on that shirt we had I just I just remember we had all these all these different designs that were just too distracting and finally we end up with something pretty subtle how's your arm cuz she'd need an aquarium shirt why does that otter looks so sad otter lost its arm too coming around he will uh I remember a conversation I had with Victoria here about do you mind helping me look yara's motivation how she's um Prett work she feels like she needs to repay Abby in some way and she's complimenting her and she's pulling her in to like find Lev we ran off this way but more for aby's sake than for actually finding love oh this was uh this was a tough one to write oh yeah how is he doing this hey do you think maybe he could convince your mom if she saw him like this she'd strangle him with her bare hands the conflict between love and duty of like the love a mom should have for her kids and the duty she has for her religion I heard some of your people calling him Lily I like he that Yara is the Practical one she sees the world as it is and she sees the consequences as they are and in some way in Another Universe she and Abby would be wonderful enemies because they are both strong myopic soldiers right but for Yara the risk to L's life is worth giving everything up I told him he had to keep it to himself and the guilt right this guilt here I was hoping well it's said that also Yara has greater love for Lev than their mom had for love that this moment that she's describing here is what made her lose Faith one of them met was suicide and we don't talk about it but I think the difference that I see between Yara and L is that Yara has lost her faith and Lev has just screed at it refocused it um went back to the origins the writings and sees how he was um corrupted so stupid uh this is another one of those scenes I thought um Victoria here just knocked it out of the park yeah yeah when don't we find something to cheer him up I like I like these in these action games sometimes having a goal of like oh let's find a toy to cheer up a kid and that becomes your gameplay objective another brilliant thing Ashley Sadowski sort of conceived of is you watch the kids visually change and and move away from scars over the course of this game so here we see Yara is now dressed like a civilian but she still wears the I'm sorry I didn't realize you owned everything in the aquarium she's not fully letting go my aquarium my stuff I'm just kidding take whatever you want you can't have you seen L uh yeah he's yeah we're about to get into this conversation of um I mean they're talking about their relationship but thematically there's greater stuff here which is when are things too late when have you gone so far that there's no coming back from it she can does joking they are very literal they're literal people I suck with kids yeah it's funny he says he sucks with kids but I think Owen would be a great dad oh I think he'd be an incredible dad another world coming to Santa Barbara right I can't why you know why he's such an optimist right he's about to talk about that we'll figure it out I don't know how but we'll figure it out I know I know it's a [ __ ] mess I know but we can choose to be happy happy again going back to something you said earlier Neil but it's like this idea that suffering is the way that we honor the dead I don't think Abby has fully admitted like no I I don't have a to be happy there's no yeah get back here what's he doing he's going after her after who his mom she's going to kill him Abby is the boat ready not yet how much time do you need uh a few hours [ __ ] this is uh this is their last conversation together she just had surgery I'm fine how else am I going to find her I'll go with you Owen they're heading the [ __ ] Island exactly I'm not going to let her go by herself I think there's a part of Abby to knows she's about to head into a suicide mission yeah absolutely and this is her forcing Owen to stay here she's really trying she's trying the irony is in staying here she she aband Dooms him I don't know when it is in gaml that you realize like oh God I I killed them all as Ellie you know what I mean what did I do is that a sniper rifle br oh stay on the dog I'll go get a boat and pick you up here no I can help not with this girl you have one arm she is so tough she's badass but Abby doesn't want any more blood on her hands it's just like with Owen she's she wants Yara to stay behind Manny by yourself yeah like the dynamic between Abby and Manny sniper a [ __ ] bro just a couple of bros doing here couple of bros we're supposed to H the island tonight then this showed up Tomy so cool it's so interesting how very few players guessed that this was Tommy right here oh really yeah I need one of those boats now just because it's been so long and you forget about there's a whole other cast of characters that are on this island and now um these two stories are starting to merge right at first it feels coincidental like oh she just happens on Manny it's like no Manny was targeted the Revelation it's Tommy what I wonder he was so good like all right this whole other game that's happening finally collides if you don't see a character die on screen should always question their death you all right her music is so ominous yeah I like how she's just bearing the death of her friend just stay F again she has this very narrow focused mind and the realization that it's all gonna come crashing down and the guilt I would imagine right like the thing I would be burying in that moment is oh that's that guy oh I'm complicit in the death of my friend there was another one of those that you you to see the making of it' be so funny cuz they're like okay and wave and wave and you'll have to act the physics of the boat and then later the animators like touch it up in the earlier days of this game there were five days that the girls were sort of doing their thing in Seattle and now we're on their territory there was a whole day where Ellie would go to Scara Island to give you this this opportunity to see them in the same nurturing way that we would see the stadium where you get to see them take care of their children and their senior and you get to see them farming and you get to see them be human people but we cut it because ultimately it didn't shift Ellie's Journey oh this scene this this is a heavy scene unlike the rest of the game which is just a comedy that shift right there for y is really nice of going from grieving to protecting consoling that's right talking to her those cuts make her understand and she knew it was going to happen she knew that's what the outcome was going to be she started chasing lives an optimist to C pushing her off of me she hit the table with everything that baby love has been through in this past week this is truly the death of his innocence you did nothing wrong now these three have become the US and the wlf is about to become the them there's this um this little connective tissue right here of um or this moment of connection between Abby and love that I love that she hands him the bow just the exchange again this this exchange between them my baby baby sweet baby all she can do is arm him oh this is uh this is the yeah so right originally you would come into to this island and this is where we would have killed leev and we had these these concepts of um Stone Mound Graves and that you would find love being buried in one can't leave here but instead we flippity flopped it stay back stand down it's funny it's like Abby stopping Le from doing the thing she couldn't even do grief for yeah the person she loves and there's our second Isaac scene the hell are you doing well not a good this was really fun watching you guys play this back and forth it's like every other time you've been able to reason with Isaac but he saved my life he's at the end of his rope by the way we'll deal with you back home he's not one of them please Abby move God damn it he's just a kid Isaac doesn't see a kid you know you have 3 seconds to get away from that scar one you really going to shoot me two I'm not [ __ ] moving that that facial expression was great no what the [ __ ] and Jeffy Wright gave us a lot of deaths a lot of falling in all these different ways I remember that uh this was another one of those where we wanted to make the volume feel bigger and run with the characters and then we had a hard time I don't know how much you remember Laura of like getting what this beat the land right here this exchange between the two characters until we come on somehow I don't remember the exact order of events we came up with this this line right here you're my people yeah we were on the stage and it just wasn't quite working and you came came to me and you said let's come up with some let's brainstorm some other lines and I said you're my people and you're like okay that's it and you just walk back on set and it really it's it it's become it's become my favorite line in the game because it is to me it is the unifying idea this one here is actually one of my favorite scenes in this game I agree this one's really great it's just the visuals the The Exchange how far we've come um just the idea that he's cold the weather um she's so dull here she's just such a dad here this is again this is one of those things that's very easy to write on the page she takes her jacket off she wraps it around Lev very hard to execute to make it look [Music] good look how she's looking at him well it's like now she's looking at a small version of herself right she knows what it is to see your parent dead to see your world burn and now she's just got to helplessly watch another person do it this is again where the the two stories are barreling into into each other um now we have a series of losses I mean there's this nice dramatic irony the player already knows what's waiting for Abby inside and they're like oh my God oh my God oh my God and they're waiting to see how this if they remember a lot of people forget no really but as soon as they see Alice oh yeah Alice is the Alice is that's the giveaway what can you say to someone that just had just lost his mom and his sister at the same moment was is the only dog that actually has to die in the game which was a fun thing during um press when people would be like why do you want us to kill dogs and it's like you don't actually have to in any of the setups they're all voluntary kills but Alice is the only requisite one I'm pretty sure we're always careful to say you don't have to kill dogs but we didn't say you don't have to kill dog dog the cutest dog that you play fetch with [Music] this is um Lura you make this look very easy but this is a very hard scene I I think watching from the outside to to act which is you have to go from grief to Pure rage uh I think hie this was your throwing up that you wrote into this scene yeah probably it's such a great visual of how much grief somebody can take for your body just Rebels against you yeah this this little the way he says Abby here almost afraid to show her this might lead to the people that did this and of course this was Ellie's mistake of dropping the map here and her panic attack and uh and the music is doing a good job of just taking you internally into aby's head now she's regressing back to the vengeful Spirit she was before our main characters Collide or about to collide I think one of the things that makes Laura's performance here so special is that this character is so hard and so terrifying but in every scene where Laura is is scary there's also this patina of vulnerability of fragility that's coming through where you can feel that she's quaking with rage but there is there's so much complex stuff happening underneath that rage it's really great you're you're you're real bad it's funny cuz it's the same way I feel about Ashley's performance there's always this just that rage feels so real she's so good too like [ __ ] one shot J stand up and from her perspective it's Jesse's an NPC he means nothing to her get out of here stand up now Mo your [ __ ] dare shut the [ __ ] up all right stop stop what is so beautiful here or tragic is that Ellie doesn't get it right what is about to say here is like I know why you killed Joel he did what he did to he did it to save me um there's no cure because of me and ab's like what not about that I don't know how much Abby cares about it it's about her dad you killed my friends like I showed you mercy and you wasted it get off of her oh man clat were so uncomfortable here like I have to go up against Ellie now and this is very much by Design who is scary she's Wy but you're beefy if I remember correctly Ashley we had to like have water in your mouth when you delivered some of those the lines here CU your mouth is meant to be filled with blood yes wow okay cuz I remember I was as my my usual I was like why am I just laying here I would try everything I could to try to get up and go sa her so I think the water and having that and having sort of showing or or being able to hear how how messed up Ellie is in that moment this is the other scene that lives in my head the knife to a pregnant girl's throat it's so terrible but in her mind like Ellie just intentionally killed her pregnant friend and Mel is so visibly pregnant and the fact that Abby does not kill them shows that she's kind of in a little bit of a better mental place I think than Ellie is she also got her moral compass like right in front of her there's like two versions of love right in front of her one is a destructive one of like wanting to do Justice by the people that I've lost and the other one is wanting to do right by this kid that I've come to be their protector and she seen too much violence who's already experienced too much wrath right it's like he needs peace Ellie hey baby a poor baby yeah we we had a lot of conversations here about um Ellie's thought process the things she's not expressing but she put the baby's life at risk right now right it's like who knows what when she's in this fog of PTSD what she could have done this is the moment for Ellie where she's it's never going to get better it's not going to get better and she's put her family in danger so it's probably better to just go well Dena is also trying to sweep it under the rug and this is what's going to happen in the next thing was like let's just let's just go back to bed everything's fine if I could buy another week maybe she'll get a little bit better or even just the distance to speak it's just like when somebody's really in the thick of like the panic and the fog of grief like that that it's like you do kind of need time in order for them to kind of continue to progress through the stages but it's like Ellie is refusing to move through these stages and so like I feel like when we were doing this like the patience that I have with it was that it's like maybe she'll move to the next stage soon maybe we're getting there maybe that's what we're getting to I don't know if we' ever talked about this but we had a whole different version of um this part of the game where it was Maria that showed up yeah but we felt it would be more intimate if it were seeing seeing how broken Tommy was well it should be like feel more the guilt of like seeing the damage on Tommy and having Tommy been changed over this year since he got back to Jackson of like the guy that wanted to protect Ellie and not go on this quest for revenge is now guilting her into it I like that you're coming in late and you're seeing that this man has been very broken and we're we're getting a sliver of how the abuse he experienced and the things that he did in Seattle have irreparably damaged him and he's standing right in front of Ellie and Ellie is looking at how irreparably damaged this man is and she's like yep let's do that to me too I'm willing to see the ghost of my future that's the Fate I deserve sorry we talked about it a lot and uh yes well we both want so well the other thing we were talking about is um the other big uh Ellie Tommy scene is after Joel's death and how they can't look at each other and then this happens again here once he asks her to go she can't look at him I think it's a confrontation thing or when I when I'm feeling anger I get uncomfortable like I don't want somebody to see it it's also the shame right of the shame of I'm letting you down I'm letting Joel down I'm letting myself down yeah described is built like an ox traveling with a kid with scars across his face he said living I also think that there's something important in the scene for Dena right because Dena has been such an amenable partner through so much of this game and their journey and even when Ellie's off the deep end Dena is a nurturing force and here she's finally Drawing the Line we're done with that so she's finally like we're done with that I'm speaking for Ellie now there's a line here and you're you you've crossed it and like the rage I felt too when he keeps going I was like it's Insidious you know it's like he came and brought the virus back into the house and now she's sick again think of all the guilt he's carrying he failed to save Joel he failed to save Jesse he failed to get Abby he he's [ __ ] up his marriage has fallen apart all he has left now is this Revenge that's it well it also it it it goes back again to that ego thing where it's like you asked me to do this and I did it I went to Seattle now I'm coming back for you to pay up and you're going to be a little [ __ ] about it well and again he doesn't he's too blind to see the suffering that she's going through all he could see is like how Dam how much how damaged he is what he say like oh you live out here like you got your family and everything's cushy and everything's fine and I'm the one suffering but he doesn't see that she's he's not the only one suffering what a joke and I love I love that Jeffrey when Dina walks over and Ellie is sitting there at the table and Jeffrey is not even acknowledging Dena in a way Tommy might feel like I'm more family to you than Dena is I've known you longer like everything we've been through and it's the only time there's really personal conflict between Ellie and Tommy that's one of my favorite Dina moments yeah because it just it felt so real I was so mad yeah just like flying out the screen door and being like listen [ __ ] get off of our property I love it so this was one of the first things we shot for this game yep there's so many characters here we had to shoot this in multiple batches and then Stitch it all together I did several days just dancing yes uh yeah remember we we brought a dance choreographer that spent some time with you Shannon yeah this was the demo and so we had to this was tricky because we're introducing to the world a lot of new characters with a lot of interesting Dynamics and trying to do that through Exposition but as thin an exposition as possible because dear God nobody likes Exposition it was hard what happened this scene has jumped around all over the as we're playing with the structure it used to be in the very beginning and then we felt we just had too many cut scenes in the beginning we need to get to the action a little bit faster and then moved to the end which changed the writing for the beginning she's uh's putting on quite the [Music] show um but there's something kind of nice I give you guys two and I guess there's there's a a tragedy to it of um coming here at the end as a as a memory of just seeing just Jesse's alive and Ellie and Dena are okay and no one's and there's Joel hey what took you so long oh I'm here and this like innocent first kiss hey don't forget we're heading out early so get some rest yes sir you're such a dick come on this was the first scene we shot this was the first scene we shot after have a very you hired me question for how bad do I smell I look at this and I'm just overwhelmed with all the details of the shirt of sweat stains of little hairs on the neck um little dimples on the smile and just this is hundreds of people of work y for months to get this little moment um sweat uh and and trying to capture the hair that I put behind her ear is crazy yeah staring at and that has to switch from being physics hair to being hand animated hair soon as you make contact with it at you I'm not and even just the kissing like I mean it's just it looks so realistic and it's actually a combination of several performances all stitched together right here and then the lighting has to change from shot to shot it's interesting highlighting the bracelet that's back on dena's hand it's a nice it's a nice it's it's a nice reflective moment of like how innocent things were for all these characters yeah I love just a little surprise on Ellie's face the little like moment of shock before melting into it and then we're about to get into Seth and again Shannon your rage is so real here hey this a family event [ __ ] are you looking at sorry this whole interaction was based on one time I was a blockbuster and I'm standing I'm just talking to my friend I'm throwing curse words around and the dad in front of me had his two kids is like do you mind there's kids around and that always stuck with I felt such shame having like use curse words in front of these kids [ __ ] did you just say Ellie Ellie don't get the hell out of here get your hands off me hey enough go on let's go for a walk what about them you worry about yourself I feel so bad for Joel here GH me too what is wrong with you she doesn't want to be under his shadow anymore no and but he can't help himself's just trying to he's trying someone someone is hurting her and he's going to stand up for her oh papa bear yeah you know you were an [ __ ] yeah yeah saddest scene yeah with the first game right we're talking about how um how do you take this Obsession of Love Of A Parent's Love for a child to the end of the line and then this has the reverse of it of like how do you take hate to the end of the line which is also like another um expression of love and the engineering of it was that here she has this family that loves her and it's not good enough because she's letting down Joel in her mind I love the different um energies that you both bring to this scene where Dena is giving it her everything in this fight and Ellie just has to shut down the scene my God I finish it I it was so hard to leave you cuz you were so upset and so broken and so sad and I was like I I I I should my M day I'm sorry Tommy I would argue this is maybe Ellie's darkest moment even though I know where we're going because this is the this is the choice where she forsakes this is where she makes a choice yeah and I think she knows there's a very good chance she's going to die on this journey I guess the thing that we don't talk about is like I think she's suicidal I think there right there's the guilt of what should have happened at the hospital that's why she leaves with in the middle of the night she's not saying goodbye because it's clearly suicide yeah when the pain gets too loud she's not there anymore she's incredibly vulnerable but she's completely disassociated and there is this absolute rejection of everything that is right I'm justed sit and wa for at that point like you know you're not talking to the person that you're in the relationship with you're talking to the you're talking to the grief and so it's like the convincing comes into like are you even in there anymore like can you can I just find you for one second and she's just fully gone both characters have very clear goals and then there's an obstacle and then they keep ratcheting out like Dena just UPS the antie over and over and over until right the last bit is ultimatum even the grabbing of the face and then she pulls her hands down and that's it she knows um philosophically with this game what we wanted to do was allow our characters to make immoral choices that the audience would not be on board with up until now like we shed some of the audience of like you know the nor torture some people have issues with that or certain other kind of violent moments but here we lose almost everybody and it's it is by Design in that way of like you're now like playing this thing that you are not on board with at all you have to keep going and in a way that does align you with [Music] Ellie these shots are so gorgeous um there's a nice misdirect coming up here we we purposely gave uh L Chucks so you're thinking for a second that oh okay this is where I pick up Ellie's Journey again now you've been a while away from Abby and L and now L has fully shed his seraphite exterior has hair I love to see their growth their relationship from this moment const in letting go of hate Abby has taken on the Owen's optimism Owen's hope a we ago um this thing that was just this flame that was almost completely extinguished within her somehow in all that tragedy and all that horror she was able to find it again her face seems brighter it seems lighter than it has been the entire game come on even in the flashbacks is this frequency currently in use this is this is so small but I'd love what the Hope again it's like she has a bit of Hope here and then it it's turn it's cranked up to 10 when she hears the fireflies on the other side of this radio can anyone me and isn't the Firefly on the other side of this radio another Vox makina hero is it really yeah who is it Liam oine is it yeah he was in he was my fellow nurse wasn't he in theci he was NSE and Last of Us won is this frequency currently in use this is Abby from Santa Barbara is anyone out there there's a nice reaction here that L has to aby's singular Obsession of now finding the fireflies and he's ready to give up can anyone hear me hello uh and she keeps going in desperation I love artistically how um the character models for Lev and Yara were kind of a blend of both of the actors faces because now I'm like looking at Baby Lev but I feel like you can see some Spirit of of Yara still is this frequency currently in use hello this is Abby from Santa Barbara can anyone hear me if anyone can hear me please reply please answer don't give up like that this was perfectly shot like we're pulling away from her her that this is how the scene's going to end um um 24 25 constants uh we got a tip about I get weirdly emotional in this scene look for fireflies I'm I'm a firefly maybe just seeing how happy she is where were you stationed I was part of the Salt Lake Outpost like that little headshake God I'm so awkward I mean I guess I'm a firefly I kind of disavowed them but Dr who I truly am he was my dad well how about that we pulled everyone back acting right here like in the reply how about that like holy [ __ ] 200 strong now with a few more every month oh one was right you're about to get two more how do we find you so good yeah that's there there it is large do building in Avalon we'll find you okay look at the way L looks at her he's happy for her looking forward to it good luck Abby from Santa barbar what's also like over now there's a possibility of community here again yeah well I'm sure everything's going to turn out fine for these two but it needs to Neil they get ambush despite a new group The Rattlers the Rattlers are the worst people we've encountered in the game for um both practical reasons uh which were we want you to get to see Ellie at her most vicious most violent we want her kills to feel brutal and Justified and we want to feel like Abby and L were they not saved would have died cuz also um with the this group wanting to make them really awful uh to play a little bit with tropes and structure and misdirect the player that in a lot of these stories um you have these two characters that you're rooting for against each other and then there's a really evil force and you see them team up and they're going to work together to defeat the bad guys and that's how how this plays out at all that always felt a little too cliche and I don't know if it really spoke to the themes of what we're trying to say here but we wanted the player to think that's what's going to happen it's a nice economy here of Storytelling like you know we don't show Abby arriving at Santa Barbara with this boat that has become a character of its own in the story and we're just here with Ellie picking up the tail end of their Journey um there's also like a really interesting note here from um Abby and this also the first time we're seeing just how emaciated Allie has become and she's sunburnt and um clearly not taking care of herself in the pursuit of Abby I mean it it mirrors the it can't all be for nothing because she's killed so many people at this point if she stops that all is just for nothing I I really like that that parallel of the first game of like her wanting to see things all the way through with her stubbornness even though there's a part of her that says this is not the right thing to do yes nice mirror here of the injury Joel had MH in the hospital in the first game uh yeah we were constructing this uh we wanted to injure Ellie badly so again again she's choosing the pursuit of this thing over her own health that she likely die um if she sees this all the way through I would argue she is dead already mhm doing this upside down hair was such a pain um because they have to essentially you can't just move the hair upside down you have to remodel the whole [Music] thing and we want her to have lost so much blood it's again the whole thing is starting to feel like a fever dream and it's she thinks she's seeing like Abby and Lev and then realizes oh no it's we got a one very different people Travis and logic This was um another moment to show how far Ellie has come and how much how easier it is for her to kill someone in Cold Blood Now versus the earlier parts of the story and one more instance where she could use her superpower of being immune to get herself out of these jams and what actually what she's employing here is very similar to what Norah did to her which is like try to insult them so they could get Reckless and in that recklessness she'll find the opening something funny looks like you sh your pants good I remember in the scene when I take the gun off of Bobby the strap um and one of the takes went across his neck and I gave him a really bad rope burn oh no cuz I just like yanked it really quickly and he had that for about a week oh no it looked really I was like oh no it looked like he was strangled or something but he looked badass he was so excited it was like was like oh my God Ellie killed me he was such a fan of the game right he was excited um I I love how efficient that action is right there just grabbing the gun spraying across his legs one up couple mons ago and watch this little smirk that you give when he points out your bite because he doesn't know you're immune no one's immune scrawny kid with cuts by his mouth Travis Willingham yeah that's her look at there your face there is like the it's like she's getting another hit of her drug like I'm actually back on the trip she's so close you can feel it watch this smile looks at the bite right talk there she's in a holding still in our camp where is that head that wa till you hit the railro track that'll lead you to a resort it's like had this exchange happen earlier she killed someone in Cold Blood earlier there' be a very different reaction it's like she's becoming more more and more like Joel at this point more and more capable and more and more cold about violence where she could just execute it and move on and not think twice about it I think at this point she's completely disassociated from the ell we've ever known staring him in the eye as he's dying just a hint that the injur is getting worse and worse but again she's not going to stop she can't not yet remember this yeah so the idea right she gets hit right at her injury I like how badass this scene is the desperation remember the thumb to the eye I got key this is Matthew Mercer yeah oh yeah what I like about this sequence too is like you can look at everything that Ellie does is so so ugly and so so brutal and so so unnecessary but had she not come after Abby who knows if these people would have ever been free who knows if this Uprising would have ever happened right so again there's this these butterfly wings happening because of all of the choices she's made that none of them are just black and white you've got this constant gray you have to reconcile with how they're staring at her like she's some kind of wild animal again like there's this whole crazy thing going on here of like slaves and slavers and Ellie cares none of that it's just she's so single-minded about Abby and pretty soon she like in game she's going to just start repeating Abby Abby I wonder how much how much of Ellie is hoping to die in that fight but I love how surprising the speed is right it's like you keep moving moving towards this idea of this fight and the whole way you're like Ellie you're too [ __ ] up don't do this don't face Abu we know what she's like and now you come to this absolutely wrecked frail I I also love um it's pretty much wordless and you could tell so much with the performance what's going on in their heads and you could see Ellie's confusion and anger and sad for what she's witnessing yeah it's hard it's like finally the prize is right there and now it just doesn't feel as satisfying I always read that like there are boats this way moment as like if I'm nice to her if I'm just like treat her like not my enemy then maybe like this will all go by quietly to me this is a really nice mirror bead of of Joel with Ellie Joel carrying Ellie right and so you have that inv vacation and Ellie just has to watch it has to watch this embodiment of somebody who represents every good part of Joel H it's it makes me so sad this all just I this [Music] scene it's just cuz Ellie doesn't know what to do with all of that anger and that hurt from losing Joel and now this is the moment yeah cuz at this point that's all Ellie has left it's just this [ __ ] up Quest yeah imagine having that image stuck in your head and not knowing how to get rid of it yeah and killing somebody else is not going to do it but I I I you have to get to that point you have to realize it yourself mhm this was a hard this was this was we actually had a really fun day yeah as hard as this scene was and it's so funny doing this with one of your best friends of just like fighting each other pulling her hair being like get out of here let's fight kick me [Music] no I'm not going to fight you I think that threat is fake right it's I don't think yes I don't think she's bluffing I I absolutely think she's bluffing really yes but I agree but what would have happened if Abby was like no no like I feel like she still would have pushed that I think she would have pushed that knife in I well this was great that there's all these different interpretations cuz I don't I don't think she would the versions of how Ellie lost her fingers remember hi of like there used to be when someone was waiting for her at the farm and then fortuned her in retribution for what happened in Seattle oh I didn't know that yeah it was like the it was like the parent or somebody of of somebody who died of like an NPC essentially who came and so you're seeing that cyclical nature of violence of like you killed my person you killed my person you killed my person so somebody you didn't even realize you'd really killed tracki down wow I love how you pin her with your knee yeah so originally the conception was that Abby dies here and it would have been such a different game I think if yeah if right now there was just a body underwater and Ellie was having this moment yeah you didn't know that you did not know Abby died here originally well yeah originally like I think both Yara and Le died and this was just Abby by herself when you meet up with her and then Ellie kills Abby yeah I think leaving Ellie with 3% of the humanity that she got from who she was that good kid that Scrappy kid that Joel helped shape I think if she killed Abby you'd never see that kid again and this gives a hope that she's still in there a little bit and could be maybe revived in the same way that Abby was revived in the right circumstance I agree seeing the reactions there's people that wanting to know what was it exactly that made Ellie stop is it Lev is it this memory of Joel is it everything she's experienced is it just like aby's state that it's not this person that defeated her in the theater to me it's all those things the way our brains work is so messy and that's the story is was always meant to be very messy in that way that there aren't these clear-cut answers to me that that moment is 2 more seconds this girl is dead so I already know what this feels like I can see what I'm going to feel like 5 seconds from now yes and it's no different yes so why originally the house was fully empty and there was a concern I think that we had that it's going to feel like something bad happened to Dena and we don't want to make it feel like it's right that's the the thought in her head it's more Dena has made that choice to move back if she had to move back too she couldn't stay there alone with a baby it was too dangerous but I do think there's something poetic in like she didn't take Ellie's things with her there wasn't day I'm waiting for you I'm going to build our home it's it's I'm letting this I'm letting this die yeah here and I'm going to let everything rot for you well that's really bleak [Music] yeah we wanted to create a metaphor for the unintended consequences of pursuing Justice at any cost and um here we get the feel it of the song that means so much to Ellie she just can't play it anymore [Music] also interesting thinking about Joel's head space right now like just been humiliated by Ellie in front of everyone who knows what's going through his head but for me sometimes when I get just filled with anxiety it's it's guitar it's just sitting down and just jamming and just yeah not even playing a song just playing through something uh and we've had the scene at different spots of the game until until we finally landed it's it's the final moment yeah I think originally we were going to put it before the midpoint showdown of the game right oh it plays so much better at the end yeah no it now you can't imagine it anywhere else once it's once it's here what are you drinking traded his soul for coffee where'd you get that uh those people that came through last week oh I would do the same embarrassed as to what I had to trade this is um the most Ashley has ever pushed back on a scene This was um because originally it was written that they hug at the end of the scene and you're like I don't know if they would I'm not sure like they we could get all the way there you were sport about it and we did two versions one with a hug one without a hug and there both very very good but ultimately you are right they're starting to for kive each other but they're not fully there ultimately makes it more tragic yeah I think that's why she goes on this journey cuz it's just like it was never solved her relationship was never fixed Dana is she your girlfriend no no she that was just one kiss that doesn't mean anything she just I don't know why she did that but you do like her they just have like a fatherdaughter moment just this exchange about this Crush that she has on this other girl and and Joel telling her is like she would be lucky to have you I again just he has unconditional love for the for for Ellie and that's what drives her mad it'd be so much easier if he was just a complete piece of [ __ ] you could just forget about him yeah but you can't I mean that's what's hard I mean she she knows that he cares and she knows that he does love her I was supposed to die in that hospital I also love that you bring it back to we're talking around the thing that we need to talk about you that from and you doing all of these gestures to try to make it better is not what I want I'm going to bring it back to what the issue is and that's I should have died in that hospital I I also love watching um when do you both decide to make eye contact right interesting I just and it's like right here for I watch at the end of this statement for emphasis all eye contact because I am dead serious I don't care the cost I would do it all over again even if it means I'd lose you there is something to be said for your writing in this which is I would do it all over again and I would do it all over again walk the knife's edge of meaning because there's one that is repentant and there is one that is Resolute I just I don't think I can ever forgive you for that like this this false moment I can never forgive for that and's and he's ready to accept it and then he's almost but I'd like to try try and then I think the water works for everyone just start right here we did a lot of work of just writing these scenes and not being heavy-handed to talk about theme but there is something about just the placement of the scene here and it's a scene about getting over some horrible transgression that one feels because there's other things that are worthwhile in this world than just kind of living in this resentment next to the moment where Ellie decides to let Abby go and whether she fully forgives or not almost doesn't even matter it's just she knows there's other things in life that are more worth putting your focus on it's it's interesting read like uh seeing since the game has come out it's been out for a few years now um how many different interpretations there are for the seving of the guitar here whether it's she's fully forgiven Joel or whether she's fully forgiven Abby or whether she's willing to move on or whether she just doesn't want to be in under Joel's Shadows anymore and when people always like I don't know if you get this often people often come to me and they want the answer they were like which one is it and I'm like it's all those things it's all those things in some way like people's minds are so complicated yeah I mean I I think it's what we've been talking about with grief and how that can sort of manifest in somebody I I'll caveat by saying this is my own interpretation and doesn't mean that it's right it's just mine um but sometimes you have so many triggers of for trauma that you just need to let anything that might trigger you you just have to let it go and start over I mean how I felt in that moment of it's easier just to not get close to people we know when we were writing this we we had so many conversations about leaving it on on the hopeful note even though it's very dark I do find it to be a hopeful note it's left with that question of like once you've Comm committed all these atrocities yourself can you come back from that and we saw that Joel was able to and then maybe Ellie could as well I remember when you guys told me that that was going to happen and I was very nervous man what a journey it's a long game it's a long game I'm curious how do you interpret her leaving the guitar behind Ashley because she could have taken it with her she could learn to play left handed I think that so much of it is I feel like it's a lot of things I feel like some of it is deserving is not the word that I'm looking for but I feel like there's a part of Ellie that's like you know what this is part of a life that I had that I now have to kind of leave behind because of the choices that I've made and the things that I did and I think it's going to be easier if I just leave it all [Music] and not have to not have to go back and try to visit it every day and I think also having the if she did take the guitar with her that would be a constant reminder of Joel like it would be triggering it would be triggering in a way and I think you know if Ellie had therapy in this world um it it probably would have ended differently but as someone who knows like when you go through stuff and you just kind of like trash compactor it down into your body and not deal with it um I think that's kind of where she's at but kind of just like if I leave it all behind this is what I kind of deserve do you think if she leaves the guitar behind she's hoping that she will no longer have the yeah I think there's a little bit of that there of like maybe if I don't have this reminder I'll get over it because trying to find revenge and retribution that didn't that didn't fill that whole what do you think it is what do you guys think it is when you were thinking of leaving the guitar there and specifically because cutting off the fingers was a very strong choice to not be able to play the guitar and have that connection anymore sometimes it's hard to kind of um reverse engineer what was the inspiration or the process but uh I find playing guitar is so therapeutic um and it I associate music with specific times in my life and memories that to then if someone were to take that away from me and especially if I were responsible for the reason it's taken away from me then it might be too hard to just constantly play it badly or um especially this particular guitar that's gifted to her by Joel and right her memories with Joel are I think mostly positive but it's mixed with some negative stuff and the journey of the first game and this is a point where I think she wants to start over that she came to the brink of being a villain and she's I mean in some ways she was and she probably killed many people on this journey that might not have deserved that fate but I think now she wants to go on a journey to reflect on that and find a different purpose I'm curious uh maybe Ashley and then Laura like how do you feel years later now people had very strong reactions to this game both positive and negative and how do you feel about it there's so I I feel like I have so many feelings about it I feel like now having some years behind us of the game being out um I love this game so much and I think I I think it's such a a beautiful piece of media because of the story and the narrative and what it has to say and that's so much to hi and Neil um I think the aftermath when it first came out seeing what Laura had to deal with my friend and you guys and all of us of something that we cared about so much and in the process of 5 years of making this and all of the hands that touched it and there was a period that was rough because you're getting this judgment from people who who don't fully know the story and are it was hard it was it was rough it was rough yeah I think there was a lot of of after two of of people but I don't feel like when we were playing the game that yeah Ellie is making some really strong decisions but it's funny a lot of people would come up and be like dude Ellie's like a murderer what happened to her she's and I'm like no she's just she's got some some stuff um but even still like now having you know coming out of that time of of I feel like that was one of the first times where I've sort of dealt with like a reaction like that uhhuh and it sucks it hurts especially if you love something so much yeah and all the time that everybody put into it and it sucked seeing my friend get attacked and things that all of you guys of of things that I care about but I know that's so much of the world we live in but I think it was just like a a perfect storm of of timing too and and because everybody was so separated um we were all dealing with that separately right um we didn't get to see each other and like talk it through we and it's crazy because for so long and i' I've talked to you about this like there was no closure for the game you know normally you like you rap and we have like a rap party and we get to like see everybody and and kind of like rejoice in what we made and like how much of our hearts we poured into something and we never got this celebration mhm yeah of finishing it and seeing it release to the world um and all we got instead was like that that vitri like Throne so it was rough but it's you know again it's been years and I'm I'm so just proud and it is it's a it's it's a story that if you if you play it I don't see how it can't change you yeah you know it it changes how you view you violence it changed how I played games you know like as I was playing the game I found myself I wasn't attacking people anymore like I started like I I love to just destroy every person that I come across like it's a completion thing for me and as I'm playing I was like I I stealthed everywhere instead I didn't want to hurt anyone anymore yeah I remember when we started doing press uh at the end of the game toward the end of the game people would be like oh my God and all the dogs you have to kill all the dogs and I remember being like you don't actually have to kill any of the dogs but Alice so that's on you and people like having to own that reality right like you you have to face your own ugliness in the game and I think I I hope I I hope I think the game will age well I think the game will the story and and the mechanics and the beauty of the world will hold up over time as an incredibly complex piece of story storytelling in and of itself outside of like its own medium yeah I hope but yeah that was a rough time well I I remember right so it's months before the game comes out we have to delay it indefinitely there's a backlash from our most hardcore fans and people are just waiting in the wings to attack Naughty Dog yeah because we're woke and diverse and all these other re diverse taking too long to get a game out um so and we're all at home and we're all kind of have to be depressed at home as this is happening and finish the game yeah and then the game comes out and it goes on a little bit of a Redemption Arc because it win all these Awards and I've never I don't know if I've ever talked about this or was maybe I was afraid to like talk to you all about this but um my greatest fear when that backlash was happening was that I've let you all down in some way that I didn't do right by you uh and that's why I've always been afraid to kind of talk about it with you because I feel like I would get really emotional I remember talking with Troy about it because I'm like dude I apologized to him I'm like I feel like I did you wrong and now you're like and he's like no what are you talking about like I love this thing like I wouldn't change a beat but you know we all had our share of all sorts of things that were really awful to deal with at the time and when people asked me like was it worth it was it worth doing this whole thing and when I think about myself I say yes I would do it again in a heartbeat like I'm so proud of this thing when I think about what you all went through that's the one thing that gives me pause that especially you Laura what you went through that's when I'm like I don't know if I would put an actor through that again um and it sucks that that's kind of the world that we live in but I I I just care about you so much that I just I felt terrible for what you were going through well we we we were we were all going through it so but but then you know when you started winning all those Awards I was like I hope and again I was I was so afraid to talk to you about it I'm like I hope that's some sort of vindication I my gosh yeah yes and you know like I said I think I think it's just just time right yeah when it first happened it was was not a good time no God I forgot I me like but I I love it I do love it and you know there's some people that just hate the game and hate us for it and there's way more that love it and some people say it's their greatest story to have experienced out of any media and some people say it's the worst story of experience out of any media but the interesting thing to me about it is like this game is so much about tribalism and saying I'm right and you're wrong yeah and losing the Nuance of that conversation and so much of the conversation years later now people are still arguing about it on that level and not seeing the irony that they're kind of proving the point of the story the way they're arguing about it but whether Joel was right or Abby was right or ell and it's like no one was right no one was wrong it's just messy and gross in the way that these conflicts usually are yeah yeah I feel like looking back on this this so funny cuz I I think when when all of the backlash was coming out I had a similar feeling like you did which I think I told you where I was like it's my fault what I [ __ ] it up what are you talking about well it's just it it's such a like I don't know I I I I think I don't know I mean it's probably the same thing that you felt where you're just like okay cool I I when it really just doesn't have anything to do with you it's a lot of people like Laura was saying a lot of the frustrations that people were having and the timing that we were in but when I think back on this game I love both games so much but I feel like the story and I don't want to say the message of the game because it's like there's so much to say I'm so proud of what we all made and I think as I get older I'm I still feel like this is going to be something that I hold so dear because of something that we were able to accomplish and the story that we were able to tell especially in a video game and that it's a bunch of I mean badass women that are are taking on this world and it's a perspective that you don't see a lot especially in video games and as hard as that time was I'm so proud that we got to be a part of it that I got to be a part of it I regret every moment it's the worst thing I've ever done uh I guess maybe to to wrap it up here uh it's a joy it's been awesome working with you both I can't wait to do it again on whatever project we might do in the future but um there's a reason that uh I keep coming back to working with the same people over and over again because one you you try to find talent but maybe even more important than that is you want to enjoy the people you work with and despite you know the how uh uh you know we landed the plane even if the the the landing was a bit rough with what happened there at the end um again just looking at myself not for everything you've experienced I would easily Do It All Over Again same same no no no well you're out well I left I would do it I would do it all again but I would not have a Twitter account maybe that's so that's the final lesson of Last of Us Part Two which is get off social media get off of social media well after several hours with us this is the end of our commentary thank you for hanging in there I hope you got some insight into our process as you can tell we're very very proud of this game until next time endure and survive

Channel: TLOU Explained

Views: 130,541

Keywords: the last of us, the last of us part 2, the last of us part ii, the last of us 2 remastered, the last of us part 2 remastered, the last of us part ii remastered, tlou, tlou2, neil druckmann, troy baker, ashley johnson, laura bailey, shannon woodward, haley gross, naughty dog, sony, playstation, ps5, playstation 5, commentary, game development, developer commentary

Id: 3BoA0RckOk8

Length: 228min 44sec (13724 seconds)

Published: Fri Jan 26 2024