Journey Home - Fr. David Poecking - Former Presbyterian - Catholic Convert- 2013-9-30

good evening and welcome to the journey home I'm Marcus Grodi your host for this program each week on the journey home I have this privilege of bringing into your home the men and women who guided by the holy spirit the hearts and minds open to the fullness of faith were drawn home to the church and each one comes with a different path as each of us do as the Holy Spirit Guides each of us uniquely each of us have different barriers that we have to the Holy Spirit has to work through often it's just this big barrier stubbornness and there's no one more stubborn than me but our journeys are all about our responding to the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and discovering the beauty and fullness of his church and such as our guest tonight father David pecking he's a former Presbyterian comes from the Pittsburgh area brother pecking welcome Thank You her David it's good to have you here on the joint also happy to be here thank you people have said so many good things about your your show over the years that I have been a priest I've heard them say how grateful they are and so now it's my honor to but to join you it's good to have you here yeah we you know when we started the program I was mother Angelica's idea for the program one of the reasons that she wanted the program is that every single day she would receive letters from Catholics whose families had experience exits from children or siblings and she thought boy if they could hear the stories of men and women who would come back to the church either we've never been Catholics or were Catholics he would give them hope but if he can come to the church and maybe my son might so I mean that's the reason you're here fathers is to help them have hope you know that the Lord can work in our lives right the work the Lord can Amen just waking us certainly my entering the Catholic Church was not a plan okay I don't know one set out to make it happen it just happened by the grace of God and I've been grateful ever since well very good it's good to have you here what what I normally do is get out of the way as soon as possible and invite you to start way back at the beginning and give the audience a little glimpse of your of your spiritual upbringing sure that's good my family is from Buffalo New York they were my parents and one younger brother and myself my parents were both Presbyterian and they had me and my brother baptized as infants in the Presbyterian Church as was the custom they practiced their faith they went to church most Sundays and certainly through my early childhood through my first years of grade school we we were a regular part of that little suburban Presbyterian Church there near Buffalo for me the I think the the decisive event though happened early for me that maybe spend more time talking about it later but but when I was in fourth grade my mother gave me a copy of The Hobbit to read by JRR Tolkien and oh that's a nice story for a boy right a little bit of adventure a little bit of fantasy and love the story and so I went on to read Tolkien's other other books including the Lord of the Rings and I just fell in love with the characters as perhaps only of what I can do with that kind of a novel I it appealed to me it became a part of my imagination I don't think I realized that at the time I'm sure I didn't realize that at the time but I think by falling in love with the characters I'm with the story I was falling in love with with Jesus and with the church I did not know that Tolkien was a very passionate Catholic I did not know that some of this Catholic imagination had crept into the work and for me it was just a story but it shaped my my thoughts and my feelings for well thus far the rest of my life so that it didn't mean any immediate religious change from but but it was very important event in my life yes you only coming from a presbyterian background at least later in life I was originally Tharin and then later presbyterian before I was Gavin there's lots of flavors of Presbyterianism mm-hmm so as you look back was it a Presbyterian environment that in fact a drew you called you to a personal commitment to Christ and did it did it in fact lead you to that as a young man did you have a personal religious experience with our Lord early on at all well I can't say that quite so positively I'm afraid it's not that the the Presbyterians that I knew were were bad people are unkind in any way but to the Presbyterian that particular Presbyterian Church which eventually was what is now known as Presbyterian Church USA that church was like a lot of communities in the 1970s going through its own turbulence the maybe by way of illustration I can say that my confirmation ceremony which for Presbyterians doesn't involve bishops or oil or anything like that it was just a matter of professing one's faith before the board of elders so not even claiming it to be a sacrament no no certainly no that's right we know it now for my confirmation I then had to write a statement of faith and present it to the board of elders now at that time it's not that it's not that I didn't have any inkling of Christianity or or any knowledge or familiarity of it I think I knew something and they had led me thus far but faith I think not when I made my profession of faith what I said to them effectively it was I don't really believe this stuff not too sure what's happening here but I like being here so please make me a member of the church and they did so were they pressing for a personal commitment to the Lord Jesus probably not were they however they were very hospitable did they provide an environment in which in which they were trying however they knew to to nurture some kind of religiosity in some kind of faith yes I think they were sincere in their efforts they meant well and for me it was I think a constructive experience I even though it wasn't wasn't leading me directly to faith in Jesus Christ it it did in the end as well I think now I support what it did eventually become my change but you know what what it reminds me of it which I wanted specially communicated to our Catholic audience is you know we those of us that are that gray up here remember that the 60s and 70s and 80s were a rough time for a lot of groups in America and the Catholic Church you know after the council there's what's going on and there's a lot of confusion in the 60s and the 70s but we see it in the Presbyterians I mean if you don't have a hierarchy and it's basically a democratic body that's that can you know a majority vote the local Annual Meeting decides the direction they're going to go in the 70s is a tough time for this group the old lights the new lights there was always this battle where does scripture speak where is our freedom and there was a real battle and you were brought up in the midst of that it was a tough time yes certainly those who are not Catholic were not spared the turbulence of the 70s and in many respects absent a teaching authority that that turbulence was catastrophic there are many many Christian communities who probably daresay lost their lost their Christian lights at that point yeah and the Presbyterians continue to split partially as a result of that and as the more conservative folk that said no we're holding on to the gospel you know what do we do well if we can't change the whole group but we're going to we're going to be thankful there's been multiple divisions since those times of people trying to hold on to the authentic and it's tough even the idea of every thirteen-year-old kid writes his own Creed I mean even just that idea mm-hmm just opens the door for just the way you wrote your Creed well I don't really know if I believe this but I'm glad I'm here and I really want to be a part of this community exactly you see the weakness in this approach it was it was a kind that they meant it in a kind way but but you know it doesn't sustain the faith either of the individual or the community so I don't want to blame all Presbyterians to be sure but that was a challenge it's calling us for our prayers of our brothers and sisters I mean there they are you know that's it's a real struggle of course in the midst of this you discovered this beautiful hobbit yes a lot of the rings but even though we were going to church my family was going to church at that point my family was not unaffected by all the turbulence that you just described my mother especially in the family was interested and what I think we would now call New Age expressions of the Christian faith so we started church hopping a little bit we visited some more what they call alternative forms of worship crystals were somehow involved the interesting oh no wait a second I wanted a fish but that part of New York has a history for that does it really well I suppose dies yes back in there 1800s we can you know 100 years no spiritism and a lot of that those little independent little communities utopian tight communities that's was the surrounding in those woods around where you grew up there so some facilities there I think just south of Buffalo and you should talk like that that specialize on this kind of thing that's right that's right hmm so your family's experimenting they they did so we were perhaps a little bit less loyal to the Presbyterian Church at that point we kept our membership as you know I was accepted as a member despite my lack of faith but we were searching looking for something my mother particularly although that had an influence of course on my family I became a teenager in the midst of that so this was another piece of of my formation I think less helpful I think more more destructive for me because it it tended to confirm my immaturity you know there was a lot of sentimental expressions of of that spirituality in that in New Age expressions of Christianity and and I think for me they they somehow seemed seemed to baptize my my lack of faith if you know what I mean they seemed to say that this was Christian even though I think it really wasn't a preoccupation with spiritism present right so not for not for me very helpful and not very satisfying either it left me left me a little to chew on little too little to gratify me it didn't it didn't ultimately appeal to me very much all right so really no personal sense that this life of mine is a you know a gift of God this life of mine as a purpose that I have to seek out you know sense of Lord what do you want me to do with my life nothing not that had not been instilled in you for that environment no I'm afraid that and and you can see where that would be a difficult thing for anybody for me the the crisis then came when I left home and went off to college I was 17 years old moved to Pittsburgh to go to school and at that time also my my parents who ultimately divorced were having their own trouble so I was in many respects on my own at that point not entirely deprived of support from them but emotionally and spiritually certainly I was on my own so now separated from my family not having much faith often a new city and in school learning new things I began to search I needed something this was this was a this was this was becoming a crisis for me I I needed to have exactly what you just described a sense of the purpose of the meaning of my life and I began to look myself I began to shop around at different churches the Presbyterians since I identified myself as a presbyterian they came hunting for me trying to get me involved in the presbyterian church but they the the local Presbyterian Church near the University where I studied had I had arranged for its campus ministry program to be operated by an organization that was really more evangelical in its feel and therefore just a tad anti-intellectual perhaps I don't think that was the intent of the Presbyterian Church but I'm sure you are familiar with evangelicals who have that who have less interest shall we say in the systematic theology of the Presbyterian Church you could even have a thread of of kind of anti education at times you know all I need to the Bible know all I gotta have some Bible you really don't know need to know the history I don't need to know that I've got the Bible why do I need anything else it's gonna be a bit of that mm-hmm yeah I recall once questioning the campus minister representing the Presbyterian Church and receiving the somewhat petulant answer I'm just glad my faith doesn't depend upon the answer to that question which well that's true certainly but but maybe less than satisfying as an answer to my own question at the time but you know this evangelical you know I don't want to use that as a turn to mean evangelicals because I come from you a little background but in many ways it's also a reaction during the time that we were in because when you do see the Presbyterian churches and others that have gone in a more liberal progressive bent then how do you protect your faith and one way to do that is start putting up barriers and I got my Bible you know and this is what education did to those folk so I don't know that I want that for my kids so oh there's you know I could see where they're coming from but that has been a cycle in yeah American Protestant life for over a century this and those who purport to be the voices of reason go in a an unreasonably liberal direction than others who want to preserve their faith react by shutting out reason I don't want to think about it I just want to have my Bible that's exactly trying to which which is the beauty of our of our last few Pope's that have emphasized faith and reason oh yeah the unity and that the importance of both and you know the beauty of that too to protect against the same things that can happen to Catholics mm-hmm obviously we always experience all of that also so there you are exploring on your own you're being hunted out by mm-hmm by groups that because you signed up right and you sign up for college what was your religious affiliation so you you know exactly they came looking for me but I also visited at this point I also visited Lutheran's and maybe this mattering of other churches I I was even introduced to Judaism at the time there was an active campus ministry program like a Jewish community on campus and they were also too hospitable to me but then of course I took the what turned out to be the important step of visiting a Catholic Church as well and any impressions put on you as a growing up as a presbyterian towards the Catholic Church not much I had never been to a Catholic service at all until my senior year in high school the first time I ever went to a mass because on some outing I was some high school outing I was I was caught with this group where the parents the Catholic parents of this group had made it as a condition on this weekend field trip that we had to go to Catholic Mass so I stood in the back and witnessed this Mass at the time it didn't make much of a difference to me I wasn't really participating or paying attention but in my college years when I visited their Catholic campus minister operated by priests of the Oratory st. Philip Neri there they they were they were in transition themselves and making the transition from the folk masses of the 70s into into somewhat more traditional form of worship as we had at this odd blend of Gregorian chant and guitar music but they were on their way back they were in the right back at that point yeah this was now the mid 80s and and so I visited them but but that hint of solemnity in the end though the Sacred Liturgy that that preserved antiquity these were things that spoke to me in a way that none of the other services had and it was only then just a glimmer I got a glimmer of insight about what had happened to me because it was that same mood of contemporary life turbulence struggle uncertainty blended with the antiquity that that sober reasonable but but traditional I toured what had gone on in the path that was the same mood of the writing of tolki I see where this is going yeah yeah that was in the liturgy that I had that same feeling that I had fallen in love with as a boy that same recognition of something much older deeper abiding that had been in the Christian faith at the same time something alive something struggling with all the exigencies of living right the the troubles of not knowing who's right who's wrong who's the good guy who's the bad guy all that uncertainty of having to get along with imperfect people and yet sharing this common path this common heritage I I had that that insight at that point that this this Catholic Mass that I was visiting was also something that I had understood in in the Lord of the Rings and Tolkien's writing and so it was at that point that I had to know more I had to feel more I had to I had to take in more of this and I began to study and to learn and of course the the breeze that at the campus ministry program the oratory and father's one divine providence sister sister Bernadette god bless her she just died this past year they were eager to help and enthusiastic and in cultivating that germinating Catholic Christian faith that I experienced and they helped me to see though they didn't speak in terms of Tolkien's writing they did help me to see that how those stories those characters that I fell in love with as a child really meant falling in love with with Christ falling in love with with the Lord who is the revelation of God and yet also man the Lord who who endures his passion and is his death for our sake the Lord who who rises from the dead and gives hope even while we're still on the way and also the Lord who establishes a church a church that travels through time and into space a church that embraces so many different people though so many different types a church which is composed of people like me who are hard to get along with I began to to see how with the Catholic Church and the the Lord who established it are are those were those childhood loves for me also and I I fell in love more explicitly than with with Christ and the church but it wasn't only that they were newly introduced to me it was also a sense that that this was what I had been given in an act of grace so many years earlier when I was in fourth grade I had been given those those books and so even though this was now what ten eleven years later and it was for me also a kind of a coming home yeah which is why we've of course called the program home and the work coming that I do coming up network because there's that almost indescribable sense almost a I don't lost algae's the right word but there's a sense in which wait I've known this all along but I can't put my finger on how I've been connected to this somehow because it's a long long story that's been going on long before either of us and yet we get connected to it and talking as well as CS Lewis tried to to communicate that in in that parable we want to call her one of the wonderful stories were there barriers for you well there were gave him a radically different informed whether it was consistent conservatively reformed Presbyterian background into the Catholic theology is a bit different were there a barriers there were of course I had I hadn't had the experience of of aggressively anti Catholic education as a as a boy but I knew there were complaints that Protestants had about Catholics instead of I had sort of picked these up over the years I I knew that there was a bit of a problem with with Catholics messing around with Saints and especially the Blessed Virgin Mary right I knew that was supposed to be an issue for me um I also maybe more more urgently was concerned about the the faith works controversy that I know that was really characteristically a Lutheran controversy but the Presbyterians were not unaware of it and and that was really more that was an objection that I had made more personal I I don't know that I ever fully embraced the objection but it was a concern that I had at the time if we are saying in the Catholic Church that that somehow our good works contribute to our salvation how does that not undermine faith how does that not undermine the role of faith how does that not take away from grace this was a question for me at the time Mary not so much I think I was I was I knew that was supposed to be an objection so trying to be a good Protestant I raised it as a concern that I really wasn't too worried about it the answers given to me were always so sensible no Mary's the mother of the Lord Jesus how can you not be appreciative in some way Jesus was appreciative did he not honor his mother was not that one of the commandments should we then not also honor the mother of our Lord it did make sense to me to quickly and so I I was never very serious about about the concern with Mary and the Saints but and practically speaking Presbyterians and Lutheran's alike they have their heroes right they have the heroes of their faith so it's a reality for Christians everywhere that we ask people to pray for us we have heroes that we celebrate we necessarily honor the mother of our Lord just because our Lord honored his mother so in fact if not in name all Christians practice the the devotion to Mary in the sense so yeah so it wasn't really a serious issue the faith works controversy it took me a little while to get my head around that to realize that it doesn't have to be a zero-sum game it can be all Grace and yet at the same time one of the features one of the wonders of grace is that grace begins to heal us begins to make us people who are genuinely capable of doing good so that our good works by the grace of God do participate in his work even when even when they themselves ultimately stem from grace as well yeah yeah maybe it wasn't a barrier for you but I know that the idea the Catholic ideas that our journey with Christ is a continuing conversion not just a one-time thing that there's no guarantee that you know we're called to grow and grace all the way to the end you know that that is the thing which is all he's always a gift but our response that the mystery of that it was a Catholic thing that wasn't a part of my Presbyterian background but it's the thing that we continue to grow and understand even as we're Catholics right in the rest of our price you know it's try which is in Catholic spirituality was also something that was not a Norma monks our Presbyterian background but some of that doesn't come until afterwards we're going to take a break now father because we also want to find out that that white collar you got on mm-hmm that that that thing arose at some point right as another part of that you had not anticipated before we want to find out how that how the Lord opened your heart to your call to be a priest so we'll talk about that okay you welcome back to the journey home I'm Marcus Grodi your host in her guest tonight is not father David pecking former Presbyterian we paused you in your journey just as you're at the door I guess I didn't ask you at that point what did you come in at that point but I did okay that's why while you were at school while I was at school I just finished my junior year and entered into the full commune of the Catholic Church and because the time we didn't know how to implement the Rite of Christian initiation of the Rite of Christian initiation of adults properly my confirmation was delayed a few months but I received the sacraments receive Communion and was very eager to practice my faith went to daily Mass received communion with much excitement and started inquiring actually about becoming a priest so excited was yeah yeah that's the thing did all automatically were sensing that from the Lord at that point or had you earlier ever thought about being a minister I had thought about ministry earlier again religion was a big part of my family history never about becoming a priest that was not in my mind so yes it was natural for me to start thinking about priesthood and something I was eager for in fact much more so than the priests that I knew when I first asked after my confirmation if I could become a priest they said no it's probably too early it's been less than a year since you became Catholic you should probably go away for a few years and if you're interested in a few years from now you still want to become a priest well then we'll think about it so I was turned away the first time Paul told Timothy right don't ordinay in these new converts yeah no it was wise advice it's true in fact in hindsight to probably think of myself as very immature going into the priesthood and probably could have served the church better had I had I been more mature but that's probably a complaint that many people make in their vocations right if I had only known that oh yeah I'm a 61 year old grandfather but only no one bit a better father to be exactly exactly so so at first you're discouraged from it your setback well I not in the sense that they told me no never I still had the hope that I would do this so it was still something I eagerly looked forward to now there's all a lot of people that would say we'd have more priests if we didn't have the rule of celibacy I was there was that a part of your discernment issue that really didn't enter into it in in hindsight again probably more maturity would be better and that would be true of celibacy also certainly there were there were anxieties and struggles for me later on that perhaps had I been older and wiser I might have avoided but but I again in that and that blush of first love for Christ and the church eager to respond who thinks carefully about all these things does a young man who's fallen in love really think it through perhaps he's not able to do so and I was not able really at that point either I just I loved the church I loved the sacraments I wanted to share them with others through the priesthood and I didn't think too much about the consequences as they as I think someone once said about the torpedoes rightful speed ahead all right you know thinking as you're a young Catholic then just serving the priesthood you're pausing a bit to make sure another thing that's uniquely to the Catholic and it's part of Anglican as well as of course Eastern Orthodox is the liturgy of the hours the daily prayers as a regiment if if you would of your life it's not a part of our Presbyterian background though you might have individual devotions as a Presbyterian what about Thursday the hours but then was that a growing part of your of your journey at that point well it did enter in at that point actually it wasn't that wasn't pointed out to me right away when I expressed an interest in priesthood but I stumbled across the breviary accidentally on on my own really again a grace of God I suppose I I was told to go away for a few years and so I thought to myself well how does one go away for a few years so I joined the United States Peace Corps that seemed to be - to me to be a way of of providing a fixed term of service it's precise two years of term precise two-year term of service plus the training period could be a few months so that seemed to me a few years and I could join the Peace Corps go off and teach math and physics for a little while and that was a pliable and desire to trade around the world at the time and give me a chance to travel a little bit maybe understand the world a little bit better so I joined the Peace Corps wound up not serving where I was supposed to be serving there were political troubles and I was rerouted wound up teaching math and physics in Kenya and East Africa really but in my part of Kenya they spoke Swahili generally but but when I would be on term holiday as a school teacher I wound up in the capital city and because Kenya was an English Protectorate English is also a national language the abundance of English books visited the cathedral and the cathedral bookshop and there they had something called Christian prayer which was a breviary effectively the office of readings removed just morning prayer date prayer night prayer and but evening brand night prayer and I thought well this seems good and it was in English it was the British version of the Liturgy of the hours and so I picked that up and I used that as a daily prayer book without knowing what I was doing which I don't know if you are familiar with the Liturgy of the hours probably many of your listeners are not but it's kind of a complicated prayer book there's lots of ribbons lots of pages to turn it's easy to get lost as one colleague but it lost in the sea of ribbons yeah and I did I said many of my purchasing correctly I got the anti phones garbled from time to time in hindsight I didn't know what I was doing but I was praying the literature the hours praying the Psalms even as a young man without ever being told to do it or how to do it I mean that in some ways that it's it's neat you said that of course first of all when you're serving in in the priests corner now Catholic right so you're experiencing the liturgy in Kenya yes okay but but to a certain extent the the Christian prayer which is as you said it's a condensation and leave to the hours as an introduction to the full four-volume but it's also a movement into liturgy I mean it really is a daily connection into the liturgy unless your lady always realize that that's what it is you're praying around the world with the community a part of the liturgy the wider liturgy the church oh yes that's turns out to be one of the challenges of praying the Psalms - as you know that to pray the Psalms according to the Liturgy of the hours you don't get to pick the one that matches your mood for the day you have to follow the prescribed sequence of songs and oftentimes you may be in a good or happy mood and you're praying the Islam ends or you may be in a dark sour full mood and you have to pray these hymns of praise how much this requires us to to step out of ourselves and to enter into this ongoing conversation between Christ and the church that takes place in the Book of Psalms in the and in the Liturgy of the hours it it really is praying with the church in in the challenging sense as well as having to set one's own concerns aside set one's own agenda aside enjoying the prayer of others around the world and through it is a difficult thing to do well I think that's why some of my colleagues in the priesthood have sometimes given up on the Liturgy of the hours I have met a few who protest that the Psalms never match there never match their feelings they can do so much better if they can pray on their own but but of course that's part of the chair and just I know how to to give up oneself and and join the Liturgy of the church as opposed to staying in one's own mood yeah well well you know one of the recent readings from the mass well the Gospel reading was about you know as sons to a father were disciplined I mean the discipline of a son involves not just always being able to do it the way we want to do it you know it's it's a part of and we're part of a family to which we kind of connects this interesting idea of the Fellowship of the Ring I mean talking's idea wasn't just the hobbit' off doing on his own he was a part of this group of folk our religion our faith is a part of a group of family and we have the prayer of the family which helps us it may not be connecting what I feel today but there is someone in Kenya right now or somewhere around the world that that Psalm is exactly speaking so I'm praying that for him the unity of that family well certainly part of the idea of adventure that was so important talking and embedded even in the Hobbit but even more so in the Lord of the Rings is the sense that that however broad do you think your mind is the life of the church is so much bigger it's so much big as Chesterton might have foot it it's so much bigger on the inside than on the outside the life of the church embraces all time and space it embraces all these different nations it's there's so much more going on than you could ever have imagined at least that's been my experience certainly stepping into the life of the church that that oh wow this is a bigger thing than I thought that's the experience of the adventurers and the Lord of the Rings as well that fellowship that you speak of as they travel they realize their story is a part of them much much bigger story the story of their salvation which they think is so all-important turns out to be just one piece of this grand story and and those who think they're doing such a grand a job of fighting off the bad guys and protecting the good guys they discovered that all along there was this bigger church behind them and before them that was doing so much more for them than they ever imagined the Catholic Church's figure there and one particular institution that's on the front line so to speak and though that the other good guys in the story don't realize it that church whether they are grateful or not whether they know it or not and that church has been protecting them from evil it has been saving their civilization it has been nurturing them and bringing them forward to to the fullness of life whether they knew it or not yeah the profound statement in Dominus Jesu since the encyclical but anyone who is saved is safe to Christ and insurance whether they know it or not it's through Christ in His Church so our desires bring people to know that fullness I remember other some what we were on a time and but but there is something I wanted to ask you as a priest there's so many non Catholics that just don't think catholics believe in jesus because of you know they don't understand our worship they don't understand the things in our faith you know the statues and stuff so that they just don't get it but I almost want to make sure that you talk to our audience about the centrality of Jesus Wow well there's so much that could be said I suppose my first thought in reaction to that is is look again at the Bible and look again at how important both in the Old Testament which Jesus received as his own Bible but also the New Testament how important the priesthood of Jesus Christ how dominant the notion of sacrifice in his death and resurrection is in all of the Gospels how prominent that butter to the Hebrews is mostly about the priesthood of Christ how much that notion of priesthood and sacrifice to which priesthood is dedicated how great a role that plays of the entire Bible and I think it's it's really only the Catholics and the Orthodox who have preserved a really good sense of who Jesus is in his priesthood so I'd say in some ways we know Jesus better than the Protestants at least according to their doctrine they do not really know the priesthood of Jesus Christ very well I think but we live it right we Catholics we live out that sacrifice every Sunday and the sacrifice of the mass we we see that priesthood so vividly represented in the sacrament of all the orders particularly in the priests and bishops we see that played out in a Liturgy of the Eucharist we see that priesthood of Jesus Christ who who carries the sufferings of the world for us who gives himself to us in that Blessed Sacrament we see that priesthood so clearly that's so much a part of who Jesus is or what he does that's a big part of his of his office and his identity you can't know Jesus without knowing priesthood or sacrifice so these I mean it's just so important even for Catholics to remember that it's about Jesus it's about Jesus and in our and our love for him the community the church he says body I mean everything is about our Lord Jesus on our Blessed Mother is because she's the mother of Jesus I just want to make sure our non Catholic audience knows that that's such a central part of so much of what we are as Catholics and why when we see men and women drawn back to the church it's about our Lord Jesus and about what he has done in the church in our lives we have an email Leslie from Rhode Island how can we help bring our loved ones into the fullness of the Catholic Church I converted along with my husband but the rest of my family remains Protestant we don't try to evangelize them overtly but would like to know what might be helpful to interest them and learning more about the Catholic faith now before we get right into that email you've got more of your family to talk about well it's true my some of my family members did cascade into the Catholic Church time my mother followed me several years later I think it was largely my enthusiasm for the Catholic Church and a mother's desire to share that with her son but I'm sure also some of the doctrinal elements played a role being able to answer some of her questions and concerns especially once I've gone to seminary and had a little bit more education I could answer some of the questions that she still had lingering from the 1970s what's this all about what's life all about it and being able to give better answers did help me as they as they say right in response to the the probably a misquote from st. Francis right preached always use words when necessary and they now say words are necessary and I had some words at that point and could help with the words my brother also eventually became Catholic and his story's a little bit different he he went into one of the more conservative Lutheran churches when he found faith ultimately in Jesus and he did practice his Christian faith for many years then as a conservative Lutheran and I had and had trouble then with with faith works controversy also but but it was precisely in that in that exaggerated defense against the Catholic Church that I think he got the intuition that maybe there might be something to this Catholicism after all and he came to my ordination mass as a deacon and I was ordained a deacon he didn't want to participate in Catholic rites of abomination but he came and visited here to God blessing Bishop McDowell was his last ordination pass before he retired his Bishop Bishop McDonald was a good preacher though and he preached up a storm at the at the decadent ordination of course the liturgy of ordination is very beautiful itself and so after my docket at ordination my brother to the family he was leavin the Lutheran Church and he was going to take instructions to become Catholic and there were others also but those were my immediate family well and your brother followed you and then also yes he did ultimately enter seminary as well not too long after that again that that youthful enthusiasm in the Catholic faith brought him quickly into seminary and he was also ordained priest well I mean I just I remember when you started to started the story that you your parents had two sons yes that's right and they're both priests yes survey the personnel director of the diocese is that my brother's organization the personnel director of the Diocese of Pittsburgh said to my mother can we put you on retainer but we were the only two sadly only two only two sons I mean both became priests well that's okay well again that gives a model for others to pray for now the email question was within how come what can we do to help bring our loved ones into the fullness of the of the church well you know if I had a pat answer to that question I'd be very famous now yeah obviously being the best Christians we can be is fundamental to all of us right ultimately Jesus has ordained that in his church we should become better disciples of the Lord by following other disciples of the Lord Ida st. Paul is able in his bravery to say to the Christians be imitators of me a scary thing for me to say certainly as a preacher but but that's good advice for all of us right be be the best disciple of the Lord Jesus that you can be and that will be a good start eight after that obviously study helps to be able to have the words to answer people's questions penance helps to be able to pray to make acts of personal sacrifice to deny oneself certain legitimate pleasures in this world for others benefit this is a good thing for several ways first of all there's the mystery of grace how does God account these things God seems to think he's able to take the hence of 1 and apply it to the benefit of the other antes as the example of fasting in the Bible suggests but also it's remedial for ourselves too as we undergo penance right we we learn more and more that all of this is not about us it's not about our own satisfaction and being able to bring others into the faith it's not about our own satisfaction having the people we want with us in the faith but rather about service to the Lord and the penance always is a good reminder as a good remedy against the temptation to to make it about us if you love me you'll become a Catholic alright this is maybe a bit selfish in some ways but rather the penance forces us to say no this is about the Lord it's about service to the Lord and so I recommend both of course being a good Christian but then also study and works of penance as well yep yep Saint Peter said be be ready to give a reason for the hope that is within you he said in first yes first Peter 3:15 Lord's matter so we've got to keep growing in our faith right in this idea that I mean I'm sure father have you ever encountered any Catholics that felt that after they were confirmed they'd arrived well sadly yes there is that we probably all of us when we become Catholic we bring so much of our own personal disposition into that right even when I became Catholic certainly I know I brought so many of my anxieties immaturity is questions with me into the Catholic faith likewise those of a certain dare I say fundamentalist disposition it's all or nothing I'm in it or I'm not in it right if you have that kind of disposition before you're a Catholic and then you become a Catholic you probably don't automatically lose it right so there are people who do think that way and act that way and and that's unfortunate insofar as it maybe impedes that call to continuing conversion that you identified earlier in our conversation that need for ongoing examination of ourselves repentance again turning more perfect weight to the Lord yeah yeah good old John the Baptist he must increase I must decrease I mean there's there's our growth Chad from mobile rights Catholicism has an immense rich tradition of literature does father have one or two authors he would recommend for anyone for someone who wishes to begin delving into the Catholic literary field well I think you can probably guess my answer to that is a wholehearted yes I have been so moved and cultured over the years in my faith by by these great literary especially the literary converts to the Catholic faith chief among them Tolkien who uniquely claims this title cradle convert right because he was he was a convert to Catholicism when he was 2 years old as he probably wrote I'm talking for me captures everything so perfectly it's fantasy and not everybody has that fantastical imagination but for those who do for me this has been such such a beautiful way to capture the the Catholic Christian life so enriched so so wise in the ways of the world and the church Tolkien was not was not naive in his faith he knew the darkest parts of humanity he'd fought in the trenches of World War 1 he had been arrayed he been orphaned as a child first his father then eventually his mother died with hostile non Catholics who were angry with her over her faith and then he'd been raised by priests as consequence so he knew both the glories of the church but he also knew how rotten and grabby we Christians can be how rotten and crabby we priests can be he knew the good and the bad and the ugly of life in that church and yet still he captures that glory of Jesus Christ in His Church so well for me in his writings after that I have to say and the English I was told or Chester GK Chesterton of course a very popular writer himself a convert later in life right wrote so wittily about coming to Christian faith and also Catholic faith yeah yeah well you mentioned literary converts and it's a favorite book of mine by Joseph Pierce no can be purchased on the EWTN religious catalogue if you're wondering there's a good place to begin in terms of the biographies of some of the great writers Catholic convert writers expect mostly British but it's a wonderful collection of writers father how about we got a little bit of time left minute and a half we could have your blessing it would be wonderful to share that with our audience very good again it's my honor to be a part of this congratulations let me say personally on the birth of your second grandchild I don't know if your audience knows thank you probably a happy thing for you Maria Lucia Grodi right John Mark and Teresa's second child we are Lucy it's a pretty exciting body because when Teresa wanted to have that name long ago and she had offered to our lady that she wanted to name her first girl child Maria Lucia then she discovered that the deceased wife of juan diego was named maria lucia so it's like this is of the Lord so it's really excited about that we praise the Lord for that so thank you for very good let's pray that in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit amen amen father I know ask our blessings upon all those who are listening to this network and this show may they be enlightened in their faith as the name let see I might suggest to me you pour out your spirit upon all of those who listen that they may receive both the light of grace to live out their faith following the Lord Jesus on the way of the cross and resurrection that they may also receive the light of your truth and so be empowered to share with others the wisdom the truth of the glory which is the faith that you have entrusted to your church pour out your blessings upon not only the listeners but also Marcus and his new granddaughter that they too may continue to grow in their Catholic faith may Almighty God bless you all the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit amen thank you Father back thank you very much for joining us and for your blessing thank you very much thank you opus episodes been an encouragement to you god bless seeing's you

Channel: EWTN

Views: 11,101

Rating: 4.6363635 out of 5

Keywords: Catholic, EWTN, Christian, television, Catholicism (Religion), Religious Conversion (Field Of Study), JHT01406

Id: FrBPo_PuVAQ

Length: 56min 10sec (3370 seconds)

Published: Thu Oct 03 2013