The Gospel of Saint You

[Music] welcome back to the word on fire show I'm Brandon Vaught the host and the content director here at word on fire joining us is the bishop in the Santa Barbara region of the Archdiocese of Los Angeles Bishop Baron good to be talking with you hey Brandon always joy to be on with you how're the kids doing oh we're doing great you know we just found out I don't think we talked about here in the show we're expecting our seventh child in in August so that'll be the great tiebreaker we got the three boys three girls yeah how about twins well ask my wife Beach how exciting that would be wanna be that's great congratulations thank you now let's catch up a little bit we just last episode talked about your your trip home for Christmas and the bishops retreat we're recording this here in early January and you've got a couple of things coming up in the next week or two then next week is an event I think we've talked a little bit about you're going to the headquarters of Amazon give us a quick reminder what that's about yeah you know I've been to Facebook into Google so Amazon invited me to come up and talk about the new book arguing religion in a kind of fishbowl setting so I guess I'll be on a stage with a interlocutor who asked me questions about the book and then we open it up to the crowd that's there so I was delighted more than happy to do it I've always loved Seattle and of course you know Amazon is one of the great for mater's of culture today so happy to do that and then the second thing coming up is the following week isn't it is World Youth Day which I wasn't planning on going to frankly and then I got invited just maybe about a month ago to give a talk at the final um I think it's a big benediction you know in Eucharistic procession within the arena for the English speakers which I did in Krakow back in 2016 the same thing so I thought oh how can I pass that off so I said yes to that so those are two things coming up shortly where's the World Youth Day again this year it's into Panama Panama City Panama I've never been there before and that's another reason I was kind of eager to go okay well last we sort of fist an article from the New York Times there's an op-ed by Ross Douthat called the return of paganism there's another New York Times op-ed that I've seen floating around social media and all sorts of websites getting a lot of traction and I wanted to talk through this one with you this one is by David Brooks I think he's Jewish he wrote one of my favorite books of all time called the road to character kind of like these short moral biographies but this op-ed that he wrote just last week is titled the morality of self ISM subtitle the gospel of Saint you y-o-u the gospel of st. you and it's a bit satirical tongue-in-cheek type of thing but he's basically critiquing this culture of self ISM and here's how he begins he says we live in a culture of self ISM a culture that puts tremendous emphasis on self on self care on self display and one of the things we've discovered is that you can be a very good person while only thinking about yourself back back in the old days people thought morality was about living up to some external standard of moral excellence Abraham Lincoln tried to live a life of honesty and courage mother Teresa tried to live up to a standard of selfless love but not any longer today Oh what do you take what do you make of that assessment well this there's a lot to it I've admired his work too for a long time and he's speaking for this classical moral tradition and he thinks that we've fallen away from it I think he's dead right about that you know I've used as sort of a model for many years your life is not about you is it great I think biblical principle it's your life but it's not about you in other words the care of yourself is not your primary motivation in fact there's something childish about that you know a little baby certainly and then even a toddler a little kid is is self preoccupied taking care of his or her needs is what it's all about and the child naturally and appropriately expects those needs to be met by parents and everybody and the key to to to life now the key tip to real maturity and joy is to break out of that hence the initiation rituals of most primal peoples around the world the fact that we've lost that is a very telling thing in itself one of the primary points of those rituals is to break you free event which is why they're so tough why they involve separation and scarification and and physical assault in many ways you know that you're you're wounded you're marked you're forced to do difficult things because they're trying to break you out of the self-regarding attitude of a child into the I would call it value regarding attitude of the mature person when you've intuited I'm using a teacher find Hildebrand's language you would to itted certain objective moral values that now ought to govern your life and demand of you sacrifice for them you know when you realize depending on your culture maybe but that your country or your city or your family is more important than you when you realize the call to courage or to prudence or to justice is more important than your private concerns now you're ready to live now you're ready to move into a mature spiritual space so I read a Brooks era that's what he's trying to recover is that very ancient transcultural conviction that that self ism is childish you know it's it's the moral attitude of the of the toddler and if that becomes a general cultural attitude word some serious trouble okay let's continue again he's writing satirically this is not what he's actually arguing kind of the opposite so he says there are two big problems with these external moral standards of trying to conform your life to something else beyond you first is that this is actually harmful and the when people hold up external standards of moral excellence they make you feel judged so these people make you feel sad because you may not live up to the standard it's very cruel of them to make you feel troubled in this way so when someone does this you should just say hey that makes me feel judged and then just walk away don't stoop to their level what do you think about that I say boohoo I say that's the attitude of a child that's a it's the attitude of a pre-adolescent you know that my feelings of being hurt or what matters most come on I mean anyone who's morally serious is gonna be hurt and judged and again that's that point in the initiation rituals if life hasn't done it yet we'll do it to you right now we'll hurt you right now to remind you that life is hard and life is demanding god help us if we take as our moral absolute I shouldn't be harmed well then you're gonna live permanently in a playpen you know you'll live permanently in a little room for the toddlers and and also maybe we'll get to this brand but you'll fight like toddlers you know I mean you know all about little kids how do little kids relate to each other because they're all living in that same self-absorbed space watch how toddlers fight that's how many people today are fighting all the time so I say boohoo - van I mean of course life hurts life is painful of course you're being judged good you should be judged but that means that you broken out of your self regard and you're actually in relation to values that matter and of course they're gonna judge you of course we're all gonna be morally inadequate good good that means we're we're starting to live life in a morally serious way you know seem to be under the judgment of God's very interesting category if we simply psychologize that as oh gosh I feel bad because this tyrannical parent in the sky is coming down hard on me that's totally missing the point to be under the judgment of God is to be actually in a mature and liberated space because now I'm realizing my life is not about me and I'm being called into high adventure now read our friends Tolkien and company you know these great stories of the hobbits breaking out of their little space and going on high adventure what if Bilbo and Frodo just said oh no III don't want to I don't want to experience any pain I don't want to experience any discomfort see we're a big part of that story is when they're forced through discomfort you know even something in the beginning as as simple as I don't think we're gonna get our second breakfast well you'll be lucky to get your first breakfast pal you know but that's the point is is they're being taken out of the nursery and brought now into a serious moral space if they'll be worried about is oh my gosh I won't get my second breakfast or oh my gosh you're gonna hurt my feelings well grow up all right Brooks continues again satirically the second problem with these external moral standards is that they're very hard to relate to people are always talking about how Nelson Mandela came out of prison and tried to usher in an era of forgiveness and reconciliation now that's all very good and well for Nelson Mandela but what does this have to do with your life if people are talking to you shouldn't they be focusing their attention on your life shouldn't they be saying things you can relate to if somebody starts talking about some grand hero who is dead and lives far away you should just respond sorry that's not relatable these people have to learn how to keep things real of course but what they want there is to keep things deeply unreal you know go back to the initiation rituals again so the scarification and and the and the physical marking is a big part of it but also the introduction of a young person into the lore of the tribe and that's again transcultural so take the young man for example out of his domestic space scarify and mark him and then begin to tell them the stories of the great heroes who are the people that formed this tribe maybe those who by a great heroic act you know setting out into the forest or into the tundra you know whatever your geography happens to be and undertaking great adventures and an enduring great of dangers they established this community you tell that story to to inspire these young people to do something similar you know so heck the story of Mandela and how telling that is because someone who for the sake of Justice was willing to endure what was it 28 years or something of a me staggering to think about of imprisonment many of those years I think it's solitary confinement and then to come out of that experience the way he did full not of anger and bitterness but but of a desire to build a new society I mean that that's a that's a classic hero's tale yeah tell that to young people yes encourage them to walk a similar path I mean to say that that's alien to them no that's their that's their pattern are they judged by it yeah sure they are good you know boohoo if you're feeling judged by it grow up the Mother Teresa's story you know tell that to a young Catholic kid about this this lady who in many different ways left her safe spaces right and took on ever greater moral and spiritual hardship and endured great suffering to come to this high spiritual attainment that's a great story to tell people I don't know how that's a lien to anybody your life isn't about you and the heroes help us to see that Brooks continues and here he puts his finger on something I think really perceptive he says satirically the good news is that these days we don't base our values on moral excellence as the ancients might they might have said the goal of life is to be virtuous to be good he said instead today we base our lives on meaning people are always saying they want to lead a meaningful life they want to do things that have meaning but Brooks says one great thing about meaning is it's all about the emotions that you yourself already have we say that an experience has meaning when that tingly meaningful feeling Wells up inside picture yourself he says shopping at a farmers market where everything's locally grown do you feel the tingly meaningful feeling welling up inside of course you do the other great thing about meaning is that everybody gets to define meaning in his or her own way you don't have to read a lot of thick books or have hard emotional or hard experiences to feel meaning just do things that give you good feelings does that seem like a pretty accurate assessment of today's culture it does you know the whole feelings thing I've been on this cake for a long time because much of my life has been lived during this iPod Romantic period sort of neo-romanticism where we so elevate feeling just think for a second you know you're watching a movie or listen to a song or talking to people what's have higher value to them heart or head ideas or feelings and I mean we all know automatically of course the heart's more important for your heart follow your heart yeah of course your feelings are more important than your intellect but see the overwhelming majority of human beings across the centuries would never have agreed to that in fact it's the disciplining of feeling that's key to emotional and spiritual maturity again initiation rituals I don't like being sent out into the woods with a few simple provisions and maybe a simple weapon to defend myself I'm gonna be cold I'm gonna be hungry I'm gonna be uncomfortable I don't like this that's the point kid all their elders would say that's the point so that you can learn how to discipline your feelings so is to do the right thing because the right thing doesn't always feel good in fact it typically doesn't know knew I said a little bit can you train your feelings so that you do get if you want to put it that way the tingly feeling when you're doing the right thing yeah era thought would have called that habituation to virtue right by the right habituation you you become more adept at doing the right thing it it agrees with you to do the right thing that means you're becoming a virtuous person good good nothing wrong with feelings but the idea is to bring the feeling under the aegis of the moral enterprise not vice-versa if the feelings come to dominate now could Plato's great image you know of the chariot and the charioteer right reason that is directing the chariot and and the horse stand for the spirited emotion and for these these animal emotions good if they're under the guidance of reason then they can power the soul terrific the problem comes with the horses rebel against the charioteer kick him out and now the horses run wild what's gonna happen you'll get nowhere you know I I would say not just intellect here I'd say when moral seriousness is running the chariot now used your feelings properly trained like properly trained horses and man they're they're gonna power that cheery you're gonna make real progress but don't kick the charioteer out in the name of emotional freedom which in fact is gonna lead you to disaster so I think that's dead right that's a real problem if we think we're governed by our our tingly feelings I mean god help us alright David Brooks continues if the cardinal virtue of this culture of self ism is meaning finding meaning how do we do it and so he shares a four stage process for finding meaning today and let's briefly talk through each one of these so number one first you want to feel indignant all the time back in the old days morality was all about loving and serving others but now it's about displaying indignation about things that other people are doing wrong when you are indignant he says or woke to use today's parlance you are showing that you have a superior moral awareness you don't actually have to do anything your indignation is itself a sign of your own goodness and if you can be indignant quicker than the people around you that just shows how much more good you are ya know that you know the test because there's nothing wrong with moral indignation think of the great Hebrew prophets right think of Jesus cleansing the temple are calling the Pharisees you know whitewash self workers nothing with moral indignation but the test is are you yourself actively engaged in fighting the evil that you're you're noticing iiiii will have much more confidence in Mother Teresa's moral indignation than I will in some you know kids sitting in a dorm room in college you know just trying to signal his own virtue let the prophetic indignation arise from your own deep commitment then sure I'll take that seriously and I'll even acknowledge moral indignation to be part of a mature moral perspective but yeah that the whole woke thing and virtue signalling which i think is deeply annoying and doesn't help you know how many people are really stirred to help the poor when someone from their kind of moral high horse condemns them while they're sitting in their in their college dorm room I mean I'd say very very few mother Teresa off you go you know and I think she'll have a far greater impact on actually changing people all right so that's step one to find meaning feel indignant here step two second you want to make yourself heard you want to put up a lawn sign that says hate is not welcome here or wear a t-shirt that says stop the violence by putting up a lawn sign that everyone else in your neighborhood already has or wearing that t-shirt that all of your friends already where you are taking a stand and displaying who you are you're showing the people who are trying to silence you that you are not going to stay silent you're gonna wear your fashion item whether they like it or not yeah did I say do it don't say it in other words the more life's about action show me action so you're against violence okay good do what Gandhi did do what King did you know you're for helping the poor go go to Calcutta mother teresa's sisters take volunteers all the time or go to your local Catholic Charities in your city do something don't just signal virtue with a stupid t-shirt but actually do it you know so yeah I'm being a little bit negative here I mean I to what I said last week is you could find traction so if you got a young person who's wearing a t-shirt say stop violence great I'm against violence I honor the the crucified God who took on the violence of the world and took it away through the divine love good I'm against violence too but maybe work with that and say can't get involved in non-violence or hey I'm for helping the poor terrific there's all kinds of concrete ways you could do it do it rather than talk about it all right here's the third stage again satirical satirical the third thing you want to do is to tell your story it wasn't easy to come up with feelings as good as your feelings you had to go through a lot so you want to inspire others by sharing about yourself sometimes the bravest thing you can do is talk about yourself a lot sometimes you have to keep talking about yourself even though other people selfishly keep interrupting and trying to talk about themselves it happens all the time doesn't it there's some of the Saints write autobiographies yes think of ignatius if I oughta think of Teresa of ávila think of Agustin I mean so I get that a great saying can tell his or her story but I guess III think and again those are great Saints who were walking the walk as they say as well as talking the talk I would rather say find a great story that's beyond yours find a story that that is saintly and compelling and try to conform yourself to the to the contours of that story because there's always the danger of dis prideful self advertising as I tell my own story no say I'm devoted to this Saint I'll put in a Catholic perspective it means I find that story really compelling and that's the whole initiation ritual thing it wasn't hey let's get these young people to gather around the campfire tell their personal stories it I mean ho-hum they probably say no let me tell you these great stories of your ancestors that you should try to emulate so I think that's a better that's a better way to grow and virtue I'm thinking here I was just that the extraordinary focus seek conference you know seventeen thousand young people deeply encouraging an amazing conference but we had our word on fire booth and one of the best-selling things at our booth were these t-shirts we've made that say your life is not about you oh good and it has a picture of Maximilian Kolbe on it and that's immediately what I think of tell his story you know inform your life to to the way that he served at the end of his absolutely oh that's the Saints you know I it's one of our great principles that were on fire in the Saints and and I got that from von Balthasar and many others that the great theologians are the Saints and that's part of an initiation ritual is to be drawn into these great stories I am all in favor of stories but I think your own tends to be kind of boring all right let's let's bring it to a close here so this is the end of David Brooks is article in new york times satirical the fourth stage to finding meaning in this culture of self ism the fourth thing you need to do is to condemn bad people if somebody says something new or bad you need to get on your phone right away you need to tap the parts of the screen that will make it obvious that you are the sort of person who will not stand for bad people saying bad things this isn't easy because your phone is low on battery power but you still need to show up you need to protect people from hearing ideas they may not already have yeah and there's certainly a phenomenon isn't it partially the virtues signaling I can't I would just say get in the fight don't talk about it or signal your virtue in regard to it get into the fight you know I'm reading this new biography of Churchill it's about a thousand pages but some one volume which is for Churchill biographies is actually kind of short it's a thousand pages but you know Churchill is such a fascinating life and a guy with lots of ups and downs and lots of light-dark and his character and all of that stuff you know but Churchill belonged to a different time and generation and I think there's no question he was a man of a big ego for sure but who knew he belonged to something bigger than himself and and believed in in you know walking the walk remember in early in his career he's first or the Admiralty so head of the British Navy during World War one and he he supervises and really advocates for the Gallipoli campaign the Dardanelles campaign and look at the book for details but it turns out to be a disaster you know I mean hundreds of thousands were killed the objective was not realized and eventually the British Army and Navy just retreated it was a disaster from any standpoint and Churchill resigned his office and he didn't write angry articles and and blame he felt some people had mistreated him you know but what he did was he said I'm gonna go join my regiment and so he had he was trained as a soldier and he actually belonged to a regiment so sure enough he went to France and and in the trenches with mud and rats and and and the dead all around him he he fought he got back into the war and he was you know a high-level cabinet officer in the British government but he said no time for me to get into the fight and you know by God he did and so that to me is kind of inspiring thing not so much you know virtue signaling or let me point out how wrong everybody is but all right time for me to just get in the battle and fight I say to people do that so there are lots of battles for sure there are a lot of bad people doing bad things for sure okay get the fight quietly unobtrusively don't advertise what you're doing but just get in there mother Teresa you know I'm just gonna go into the streets of Calcutta and begin caring for the poorest the poor okay do it you know I think that's that's far better than all the t-shirt wearing and phone calling and virtue signaling and look at me and let me tell you my story you know ho-hum your life isn't about you it's about surrendering to these transcendent values and then doing it doing it get into the trenches and fight [Music] well it's time now for one of our questions from our listeners we love hearing from all of you who listen to the show if you have a question for Bishop Baron visit ask Bishop Baron comm record your questions send it in we would love to hear it today we have a question from Dan here in my state of Florida he's wondering whether it's helpful or distracting that we Catholics seem to have lots of ways of describing God so here's the ants question hello Bishop Baron its Dan from Pensacola my question is whether or not as an evangelist you think it's helpful that we have so many definitions of God and the Catholic tradition no for me I think it's wonderful that we can say God is who is or god is love or God is that which nothing greater can be conceived etc but for the nun or for the non-believer I think we can sometimes leave the impression were shifting the Gold Coast's thanks yeah well thank you for that question you know I don't think it's shifting the goalposts I think all those things you mentioned our different ways of saying the same thing so they're they're illuminating the central mystery of God's Way of being from different perspectives and probably because the questions that were posed were different the audiences were different the concerns were different and so you might articulate it in one way or the other but all them are saying the same thing we're not describing different gods or not playing different language games but but illuminating the same reality from different perspectives one thing I feel strongly about is the Evangelist has got to be kind of light on his feet meaning he's got to be able to adjust and he's got to be nimble so you're talking to a person what sound that person's mind what's their background what are they interested in your strategy will change depending on that play that argument that really worked with this guy it might mean nothing to this gal over here can you draw from the great tradition these different ideas systems forms of forms of theology yeah and it depends on on the situation you're in I would tell my students when I used to teach at Mundelein that they they're like doctors with these little you know your your medical case and you a lot of different medicines in there and a lot of different you know antidotes and so on because you don't know what you're gonna face and if you approach every illness with the same strategy well you're gonna be pretty ineffective so I would say learn all those ways of talking about God think of n Psalms you know that then we're something greater could be thought - the one in whom essence and existence coincide the Bible I am Who I am or God is love I mean all those are describing the same reality but with different rhetorical purposes different audiences in mind and I would say have them all have them all at your fingertips so you can use what works in a given situation well thanks so much for listening to the word on fire show a couple quick things one if you're listening to the audio version of this podcast you might be excited to know that we've now started producing most of these episodes on video you will find them on Bishop Aaron's YouTube channel you can also find them on Bishop Aaron's Facebook page second if you could take a few seconds and leave a review on iTunes or another podcasting service that would be super helpful takes you just a few seconds but it really helps get the show out to many more people well thanks again for listening we'll see you next week on the word on fire show [Music]

Channel: Bishop Robert Barron

Views: 77,418

Rating: 4.888268 out of 5

Keywords: Bishop Barron, David Brooks, Self, Culture, Morality, New York Times, Word on Fire Show

Id: fRwTFxs2zLM

Length: 30min 29sec (1829 seconds)

Published: Mon Feb 04 2019