The Dutchman: A House Possessed – The Story the Warrens Couldn’t Tell

[Music] I'm a and I'm the executive producer of the film bum of the redneck werewolf and even though I worked a lot in comedy over the years including doing comic books novels other things sometimes a story jumps out that has your attention and not in a comedic way and that's the story we're about to tell you about today here with me today is a gentleman named dr. John Catapano when John was younger he went to William Paterson College in New Jersey and while he was there he was involved in an investigation with Edna luring Warren this investigation from what we can tell might predate what they've been using in the conjuring movies what have you but remember this was the era that you had the Exorcist a medieval horror quite a few these films were coming up at that time but this took place in October of 1974 and as I said this is dr. John Catapano also professor John Catapano as he was a teacher at a college so where you get a little bit of his background before further into this story John Keane tell me something about your educational background well from 1968 No 1972 to 1976 I pursued a bachelor's degree in communications at William Paterson College which is one of the New Jersey part of the new New Jersey college system I did a three-part bachelors one of that was journalism so got that in my four years at the end of that period I was asked to take a teaching fellowship there and get my master's degree so I finished my master's degree roughly a year later and that was a television production of very early days of cable and video production after I graduated from that took a number of different video jobs educational video with hot couple of hospitals and then did some freelance work in New York City including some work for National Geographic one time too right well we shot some materials for that but my question to you though is your education what are you worried agrees from well William Paterson college is the bachelor's degree in communications and a master's degree in video production later on when I was working in New York for network they paid for a master's in education I got that from Columbia and then many years later after I actually moved to Florida I was recruited by Disney they paid for me to finish my PhD in communication theories and you got the PhD from Rutgers University University so these are all very well known schools right William Paterson has now become a university right when I was there they were missing an engineering compartment to their school to make it in the university but now they're all part they're part of the University System of New Jersey which are a person with an engine it's through education a liberal arts education absolutely but still you saw it also which gave you the ability to become a professor because if you don't teach right the doctor is one thing but when you teach you do become a professor and you talk where actually I taught at William Paterson when I was doing my teaching fellowship when I was pursuing the masters I was teaching courses during the day doing my Master's classes at night and then about a year after I finished those degrees and was working the school actually contacted me again a professor I knew very well and asked me to come back and teach at this at William Paterson and engineer their television studios the recording studios which was a very large compartment at that time we were the only College in New Jersey that had two full color television studios and we're actually getting hands-on instruction to students who then would go on to film and video in television radio so a lot of my students I'm still in touch with work in the business okay city very versed in media you've worked in it for quite a bit back and forth you actually worked even as a combat cameraman you worked also for her news organization for several news organizations the other thing to note is that we've known each other for a very long time know each other for over 25 years even worked on the Bubba movie with me and some writing and some acting in the film yeah but this is something you've told me about like 20 years ago and I was one of the first people ever learned about you know the Warrens the black museum the things you've been there the things you saw back then and my question to you is this you originally started out going for a medical degree well Richard start out in biology in biology thinking about taking a medical degree but the thing is form talking about is that you're man of logical mind and you are a person who understands critical path thinking or critical thinking so what happened to you must have really just set all that off to the side because you went to get into a realm that logic went out the window as far as you know as a layman that's the way I can only look at it can tell us what happened because I know you were working with a college newspaper William Paterson right and you had a very interesting assignment and can you just tell us what that assignment was October 1974 I just started when junior year my third year at William Paterson and because I was working in the communication department and I was doing radio I was doing video and I was doing journalism my journalism professor hurt Jackson who had been a longtime editor of the Rochester Herald and then came to teach suggested that I write for the newspaper and actually I started out as a cartoonist and as photographer because I'd been doing photography even in high school so I was a feature reporter John Byrne who went on to write for Forbes magazine and write Malcolm Forbes Murphy was the editor-in-chief of course he was superseded by herb Jackson who was the faculty advisor and then my editor in the future department was ivy Adler it was a student and I believe she went on to be a lawyer well I think in the Washington DC area but I was known for a offset sense of humor and actually I had a couple of experiences when I was very young and in high school and I love these experiences were paranormal experiences yes and then you know my birthday's two days after Halloween I was born on the day of the dead November 2nd so Halloween was always very big for me so if I remember Ivy's words exactly she said because October the student government what October would have all these different Halloween type programs right and one of them was a lecture series with Ed luring Loren they had been there the year before I had not attended that but now I'm on the newspaper and I remember ivy stopping by my desk and go hey you have all this weird stuff going on why don't you go interview these people something to that effect and it also centered around a very famous haunting that was on the campus yes and the haunting was where um Hobart Manor William Paterson College the properties was given by the Hobart family to the state of New Jersey and it's on the hilltop in Wayne New Jersey there are only at that time well still there were only two buildings that were made from the original estate one was the manor house where the family lived and the other was a carriage house where they kept their carriages their horse their little stuff like that I was kind of poor I was lower about class so I got a job on campus working for the registrar's office and the Registrar's Office happen to be in Hobart manor the manor house had been turned by the state of New Jersey into this really ugly administration building here's my question though so you've been in the manor you experience it together work the manor and you'd experience some things there so this really was Hannon I'd love to give you an assignment to go work with the Warrens because they were there also to investigate the matter were they not well this is this is what happened yes I contacted the student government group who were putting on these shelves okay we're putting on these these things right and I told them I said look can you please introduce me to the warnings because I'm that I want to do an interview and cover their appearance for the newspaper and then they said sure and they said and we've asked them at midnight to go through the manor house to let us know what they think is they about atmospheric because so many because so many people who murder they are over the years had mentioned that they had heard things were seen things I had only heard them so I thought that was the perfect I was like well I work in the manor house four days a week so I think this will be pretty pretty cool and let me ask you one more thing did the Hobart family involved a certain us vice-president too wasn't that part of the family history yes and I think Hobart was like the second or third governor of New Jersey back in the 1700s very wealthy family they said settled there and this late 1600s early 1700s the manor house was gorgeous it was all stone and I understand now that they've they've renewed it they have used alumni money and come back and actually taking all the offices out taking the partition walls out and everything else and renewed it has a beautiful parquet floor and interesting interesting thing to know today I wanna interrupt but when I did some research on this because like I said I've heard this story over 20 27 years ago from John and it came up will explain how it all came back up in a very interesting situation arose from it but there are over 300,000 hits on Google now we know that some are real some are and summers appositional but even involved with the Warrens at one time going back many many many years later to reinvestigate but what John's gonna say is what happened in the initial investigation and how it led to an even more intense incident John go on so the night of the presentation I showed up sat in the audio went through it and showed slides that he had taken of different things apparitions different atmospheric things explained about the cases and Lorraine was there and she would join in and you know and talk about different things there was a short question in the answer period at the end which I didn't partake in and at the end of it when people are leaving it what always happens at the Warrens presentations are a bunch of people come up and go hey you know I've had this experience I've had that sure so I approached ed was pretty much surrounded by students and faculty so I went up to Lorraine and I introduced myself and I said you know I'm going to interview interview you for the paintbrushes oh yes yes we've heard all about this this isn't a problem she was but we're gonna go to the manor house you know to investigate that and I said well actually I work in the manor house and she became very interested as well have you experienced anything there I said yes I have because I work down in what's considered to be the basement later on I found out there are two sub basements below it but you know you would hear footsteps out in the hallway when nobody was there you would hear door closing you hear faint voices that kind of Thieves just thing you associate with a haunting right okay so after ed was finished he started putting his equipment away she walked me over and she introduced me to Ed and it said oh hi how are you you know yes okay the interview did you see the presentation small talk so for somebody from the this student group who puts on the programs came to say hey it's all it's time for us to walk over to the manor house so we started walking over as a group and I was starting my interview they're like talking to about different things right I think I think and one interesting point that came up though you told me Lorraine discussed but she feels these entities hauntings and things are right and you get can you just tell us what her take on it was well and and this happened later on that evening right um you know she said well what's your background and I said well actually I'm really more science than anything else you asked about my religious and I said well you know I have gone to a other Dre's Roman Catholic and I went to a Catholic boys school but I had not been to church in three years or so right and in essence what happened was she went through she met through Homer Manor there was a group of people she went through the manor house and what she found was what they call a haunting she explained to me in an in the interview as we went on there were three levels of what they call can you tell us what they aren't yeah the first one is this kind of thing where you hear voices you don't really see up you might see apparitions that's pretty rare it's mostly sounds things like that things do not fly around it's a level one and she explained that what was going on at Hobart Manor was there was a child who was very very ill and there was a nurse who was brought in to take care of them or a nanny or someone a woman and because of all of that stress energies are released into the surrounding concrete floorboards whatever and since everything there was still original that people who have a tendency to feel these things it's almost like a movie playing back these energies are released and these people who are or you know can receive it like a net go right and that forward movie she actually it's almost like a movie okay second level are human hauntings that is where someone's spirit soul whatever you want to call it is stuck in an area it's stuck in a house it's stuck in the field it's stuck somewhere it could be for a number of different reasons the person didn't realize they're dead the person doesn't want to leave because they have unfinished business you know or other reasons like that they're so attached to the physicality of the other place that they do not want to leave this doesn't line with a lot of the research I've done over the years and the ones I've been involved in so and this is fairly common this one's from a primary source right and she said in that case it's it was her and Ed's practice to contact these spirits and then move them along move them to the next plane and then the third of course is what they would call demonic possessions and that is a home of the realm because they've had discussions of whether ghosts are real or demons are real and this is where where our whole discussion came in right and she goes I know you're more scientific so let me try and explain this in a way that please you might understand it talking to me as she goes do you agree with with science that energy cannot be created or destroyed I said yes as of right now physics and chemistry we understand that okay so the human body is mostly bioelectric chemical energy she was what happens when that person dies where does that energy go she owes religious people might call it the soul you might call it energy does it go into a nearby tree does it go into a wall does it go someplace else so that energy if it's still hanging around may manifest itself and in a lot of fun things that you find that there's a cold spot that part of a room or part of you know the center after you those myself is is 10 degrees or more colder and I have to than the rest of the room and that is something trying to use the energy that's in the room to manifest itself just could be human Jim now demonics she goes you know you've studied some of the physics about parallel dimensions and the multiverse even physicists today and we're talking about the multi-dimensional versus and with matthew shows what if she goes whatever group people get together and focus their mental energies on a point Ouija board seance or just get together and decide that you know that mouse where they gonna focus their energy what if that energy is then used to open a door to the next dimension or the next multiverse we don't know what's on the other side of that door what if what I call a demon referring to herself what if that is merely something from the next dimension so I said okay I can I can go along with all of that now there he has been one that's been placed many many times in the last only a few years right maybe they were more research systems and I go to 74 right that's pretty amazing for 1974 whatever time so you know that was one of the discussions we had anyway she went through the house she came up with the thing that this was just a plane I suppose got a movie going on there's no self early tonight right it is it's just stuff that's in the walls if you're not sensitive to it right you can be in that in that building all day long for years on that day you never notice never hear a thing but if you are sensitive then you'll pick it up okay so you finish the investigation that evening and you're walking out and then you're approached by somebody and that's when things took the turn right we're exiting the manor house it's late at night it's 12:30 quarter 1:00 in the morning and there's there's a number of people who've been inside listening and one of those people I recognized as a guy from the music department I don't know if he was an associate professor he wasn't one of the main faculty he was either an associate or an angel' I've been in a job to know that yeah so he approaches them and he says look because another adjunct professor of music here a woman who teaches with me as having a horrible problem in her house they just bought it like four or five months ago and it's you know a family with children and there's all kinds of things going on at the house and I'd like to know if you would be able to help them any approach dad but we were on the periphery and that said well when do you propose going to this house I think I said well we could probably go there tomorrow this is well you know what we had plans to return to Connecticut but we're in a local hotel we have our own car we can delay those plans and why don't we meet with you what time and I said well what about three o'clock in this parking lot of the school and you said okay fine let's do that okay a little bit one look at the house so we're walking back to their car and still doing an interview and the rain looks at me she goes how would you like to come along tomorrow for this investigation I said well I don't know if these people are going to want newspaper coverage and you know the guy the guy who was arranging what I said yeah I'm not really sure I said well you know I can do this so that their names are never mentioned the places never mentioned it could be very you know and this was the corner arraignment you made back then even held today because I honestly think we wrote a script on what happened and we did change that as well because that as is that a respect for these people so just let you know that this was all taken very seriously so he said well I'll talk to them but I think it'll be okay so we get back to the car and I said okay I'll meet you here at 3 o'clock and Lorraine looked at me and said when was the last time you had the sacraments I said that's basically confession for people the confession and communion confession in communion and she I said well three years ago or so and she goes you can't come tomorrow unless you come at Sakura's best interest and protect yourself I said okay luckily every college has a religious you know office where there's people different you know there were priests there rabbis or on-call and and who are on campus to deal with they're all different I get a piece of irony that I noticed we do have the article that came out in the newspaper later on the interesting thing is on the same page as the article the the campus minister campus ministry was mentioned and there were several other names of religious individuals you go and speak to which is very in just to me became very ironic but it's just a sight though but anyway so I went on next morning I've got got to the ministry little after they opened there happened to be a priest there and I talked to them and I said I really I need to do confession and communion they said why and I explained the whole thing to him he was a little bit dubious I said but you know I can't go if I can't get this that's the whole thing hey guys okay the honorable thing because are you ready and I said well this might take a while it's been three years but he was very good about it and why through all that got that three o'clock met them and they professor from the music department and we drove to the house which work was only a number of miles away it was not a very long distance or this okay so when we get there what's interesting is the house is three stories it's built into a hill so the basement is actually in the hill there's only access to the basement from the rear and there's a driveway that goes from the house down a very steep incline and then curves to the back of the house where is the entry to the basement and it was a two-car garage how slippery old a lot of houses in that area were built in the 17 1800 s because the Dutch settled there right as they grew out and made happen because it was not that far on area it was a big their settlement yeah yes so you know we arrived and the father of the family met us and he was an artist he was an artist the wife was a musician okay and this is a creative people that's it they're very they're very okay and sometimes creative people have a little more going under vivianne things like this sure so so we've met with him the agile professor explained why I was there what I was doing at first he was very reluctant and I assured him that they could have final edit on the article that their names would not be mentioned it's making them a nonentity right so they said well that'll be fine in the meantime the mother comes home with the youngest son there's two daughters understand and and we're talking us the introductions and things and so ed decides he's going to start talking interviewing the father and Lorraine asks the mother if she can go in and go through the house okay and I said I'd like to come along and she said fine so the mother leads the way Sean stayed outside through the basement went through the basement upstairs into a kitchen which of the main floor which is accessible from the front by the first floor right and then there's a second floor bed right so we got in there and I kind of felt like tingling all over my body almost like pin pricks and it was pretty clear that the further Lorraine went into the house the sicker she was getting really uh her yeah she said her head was pounding headache was intensifying she felt nauseous we got up to the kitchen she sat down the person gave her a glass of water and I sat there with her and just observed and with her pain got worse she says everything you've told me the story over and one things never changed every detail over the last 25 years I've heard this story from you whenever you feel like telling it it's always the same thing Lorraine got blindsided literally like whatever it was it was it was obviously making her physically ill so at some point we went into the chute you know she she went through the dining room living room and in the living room she basically said I need to get out and some of myself and the woman helped her out the front door which was the because she knows was get out in the room however that's you and you were feeling that well either right was not I have a headache it wasn't I don't believe it was anywhere tennis in Texas hurts right but I still had that feeling and the spin philosophy of being pin you know pink pricked by pins all over my body at the same time got you so it's kind of tingling but it's not cuz there's a pain involved so we went out the front door because it was the easiest closest access and we had to get and you had to get out of there and we helped her out and we stayed with her for a while and she started feel a little better and a little better and eventually we made our way down the driveway back right to the back of the house and head was very concerned and he was like you know what's the matter what happened and she goes there's something very very because they had done one of the other investigations this was very early in their career but they had done a lot but this one even ed noticed this one really got Lorraine yeah Headley right bad so and considering the ones they they've done this is very interesting to me so you know she sat down she said look there's something very very bad in the house she doesn't I don't know what it is but it's it's very very bad and so the parents were they concerned the oldest order had been come home she was actually a student at William Paterson so the youngest Channel the youngest the youngest son and the older daughter is there yes okay continue on because I'm gonna ask you a question about something they said I'll be about it so you know the parents are not very concerned and they're saying but what's what do we do and Ed explained you said well you know why you know we usually do some kind of investigation on the property of the house on you and the background right well if the background basic background investigation with interviews and the people who experience things he goes but because we've delayed our return to Connecticut already today because as soon as we're finished here we're driving back Connecticut because tomorrow we have another appointment or whatever they have something to take care right think we said it was a simply for was a very busy period for them they did not say what it was nobody asked them what it was they said we understood at that point and it turned to me and he said well you're a journalist and I went I'm a student journalist okay you're sorry this was gonna go I'm a junior in college and you're reading newspapers lots of newspaper and he said well do you think if I gave you a list of things I'd like you to find out for me and possibly do some other interviews that you'd be able to do that over the next four or five days I said well I'm fairly busy scheduled but I could make some time and do that if that's what you need and this is right in the middle of October yeah because the article came out about two weeks later was right in the third week or so this is ree-ree enough so he said he said okay I'm gonna give you a list of things I need to find out I'll tell you where you can find them listen this is the day's way before the Internet right so this was a lot of legwork including going to state offices I'll go back to the town and county offices to look regional offices to look up all kinds of thing and including other locations yes where certain objects needed to be found that you discovered as time went on what was the apart of what Edie told you to do because it's time go went on this making more than just simple list of a relative or this that the other this became a rabbit hole then you wound up down pretty deep and then you were being affected by what was going on because now you were really into the mix so he gave you a list we broke up that day I made arrangements to come back and interview the children interview the parents there were a couple of neighbors who had experienced some things even they have seen something happened putting eyewitness accounts of what this may have looked like well everybody entity but everybody I talked to right so even the neighbors we're saying they saw something yes and the common string between the neighbors was the fact that they had seen almost the exact same thing sometimes it looked a little different sometimes it looked better it looked worse and here's what's interesting to me because what we're dealing with this point at first was thought to be a haunting a ghost right right that's what started out as I think I think the Warrens knew it was something more just because of Lorraine's reaction but initially it was expected yeah because of what had happened to the family what they had seen and clear that researcher we did later on a moped out that it was the ghost right oh because I'm gonna have a former owner of the property it was a Dutchman right and that's where we're gonna hold it for just a minute because when this thing introduced itself because there's one person we left out of the conversation that is the middle child she had gotten a Ouija board as a gift after seeing the Exorcist and was now fascinated like a lot of kids were unfortunately after she and some friends decided to have a little fun with the Ouija board the Ouija board aside got a little fun back and then things got worse that's when John basically came into the investigation the child was already very very ill there's a lot more of the story that we can go into later on that's in the script and in the primary story but all I can tell you this after the research that I myself started doing I asked John to help me out with Ann and John had some incidents because we started doing the research because sometimes these things can trail around after you this is a man who basically is a man of logic and science and even years later from 1974 even OMA still like last year we had an incident even at my house we were trying to put this whole story together trying to bring in people who have mystic background religious backgrounds and even they were surprised what was going on there's a story behind the story here but ruins focus on this story what we're trying to tell you is this we may have one of the first incidents we're a ghost a ghost made a deal with a demon after death because this thing took over in a way that nobody expected and later on the Warrens did return after John had done the entire story and this is his story to tell not theirs he called them in because he did not have access to priests exorcisms and things were required later on yes this went that far including I believe it was two exorcisms involved I think so there's a lot more of the story that will be told but I'm going to tell you this much I worked luck in comedy and there's some times where you can't even find anything humorous and anything you look at this story is terrifying his story is a story of lust murder suicide greed and very dark magic because there's also some secret society stuff mixed up with this and remember that here in New York back in the 1880s 1890's you people Aleister Crowley and other people walking around and it became very cool to be involved in seances and things including Houdini having to bust a lot of these seances but sometimes you find the false and through all the false you can find the true is this true we don't know that but we do know one thing's for sure it did happen it's based on true events it's this man's story to tell it was never part of any Canon or any book or anything else because it's never been seen since the stories originally published in night on october 1974 at the william paterson college newspaper you know the people that he's been working with the people that sent him on this these are all academics so it's not some crazy you know medium sitting in a shop you find a storefront these were academics who were scratching their heads trying to figure out what had happened to this man what he's been trying to figure out for many many years and I've been his friend for a long time and I have to tell you something this is a very solid human being very serious minded gentleman we've worked together and doing component engineer repairing camera equipment things for stages and for rock shows things like that so we're scientifically-minded people but sometimes it's a riot get the step out of your comfort zone can take this on what we're looking to do with this is to either sell it or to have a studio come on board and do the production with us or another filmmaker to work with us on this because quite honest with you this is a very large scope film and even though I did make a very successful film it went to number it went to not number one but it went to most popular Hulu and Amazon all globally across the world I know it takes to make a popular movie but I also know it takes to make a story that will live in your head I'd also employ an old friend of mine Michael Broome who is a top-notch creature designer for Hollywood he works on Walking Dead he's done work for the Orval he's done work for motion pictures like Star Trek Wolverine Origins Teen Wolf so we took the eyewitness accounts and I gave them to Mike and he came back with the image one image we have more but we're going to show you that one image when this is all over and said and done but we also have something else to tell you because we did work with a few sidekicks and including it including a very dark which we want to get a lot of opinions on this shaman we got this much whatever this entity is it had a message this film's gonna have a message if you mess around with Ouija boards seances even for fun or download Supernatural we highly recommend that you don't because what you're doing is sending yourself up for something you really don't understand and you greatly affect you later and then again also energy you can actually irritate energy and anger it so we don't know these beings abilities are or not but we do have a story that you're definitely gonna want to see when it's over with you're never going to think about this the same no matter what movies you've seen you never think about the same and including that one famous series is out there we found that elements in this story which is an earliest or in the ones that they portrayed they used in these other films this gentleman was a bigot he was a lustful individual he had no great love for the immigrants coming to this country back in that era and the worst part of this is that the only way to solve this this may sound very familiar was that this gentleman's grave had to be found which had been lost to history and buried by his own family so that's our long fold later it's up to any of you out there studio filmmaker or vetted person because we were going to check your background because it's a very serious matter this film monetarily yes can be worth a large amount of money one of the franchise's alone almost goes to a billion dollars and this is a missing piece it can be made in the u.s. it could may be made internationally because here's the thing it's a story to tell doesn't matter who tells it it's how we tell it and if we get it exactly the way it happened which we are going to do we're gonna show you where mr. broom came up with you take a look at this the image gonna warn you right now is really disturbing so just be aware of that when you see this we're going to show it to you briefly at the very end of the interview John any advice for any people out there who even get involved these kind of things from what your experience was anything you like to say um just echoing Lorraine's words and that is don't get involved those same offices don't get involved in Ouija boards don't dabble in the Black Arts because energies and entities that are out there are much smarter than most of the people walking her yeah I'm actually a line from an old b-movie comes to mind children shouldn't play with dead things that means never played with anything that thanks for watching this you can contact me through my website WTHI Montcalm and i will answer any inquiries but please only serious ones because this subject matter is a real gamechanger thanks a lot take care [Music] [Music] [Music]

Channel: Mitch Hyman

Views: 311,940

Keywords: Ed and Lorraine Warren, Ed Warren, Lorraine Warren, paranormal, William Patterson University, haunting, mystery, horror, supernatural, The Conjuring, The Dutchman, ghost hunters, Demons, ghosts

Id: kFE70T2o0qM

Length: 39min 17sec (2357 seconds)

Published: Fri Oct 26 2018