The Disturbing Case of the House of Horrors Killer | Documentary

[Music] 9-1-1 what is the address to your emergency has this one street laundry room yet what is it or what is street laundry man what's the problem [Music] [Music] where is he sleeping at in the bedroom the what bedroom uh there's two houses right back along the street and it's in one of those houses but you're at the laundromat you know i'm i'm in the bedroom with them what color is the if house looking at the laundry mat which way is it she's looking in the laundry management on the left of the two you don't know what color the houses no i'm sorry does he have a car no mommy sit down what's your phone number you're calling me from i don't know can you think of the yellow house i think so you're pretty trying to laugh it's an apartment [Music] okay does he own the house no he's broken has anybody actually lived there i think he's been abandoned his name is sean great yes at g-r-a-t-e yes it's around 6 a.m on september 13 2016 and the woman is calling from ashland ohio because of the nature of the crimes she endured her identity is being kept private and we will refer to her only as jane doe does he have a weapon what does he look like he's a white man or a black male [Music] is he like six foot or is he shorter than that he's like six more six now do you know how much he weighs [Music] eyes are i'll be wearing nothing right now [Music] the panel line would be okay is he still [Music] where did sleeping take you from right my apartment i mean i was walking with him [Music] you were walking with him how were you walking too it's pretty dark i've known him for like a month and a half [Music] is there any way you can get out of the building i don't know without leaking him and i'm scared [Music] he's our bathroom in the house oh his bedroom is closed and he made it so he would make noise so if you told me to go to the bathroom he would do something to you yeah because he had me tied up are you tied up now well yeah but i kind of freed myself you see in the same room with you yes is it his phone you have [Music] if you're worried you don't have to talk you can just set the phone down okay i just need to hear if officers find you or not [Music] are you upstairs are you downstairs when you are downstairs there's a door there's a side door on the right [Music] immediately there's a kitchen right there and then the bedroom is right right off from the kitchen [Music] do you need an ambulance [Music] are you bleeding from anywhere anymore how are you bleeding from you don't have to talk if you don't need to okay [Music] for seven minutes the terrified victim has struggled to keep quiet her abductor sleeping just feet away but suddenly something goes wrong [Music] do you know where he lived [Music] oh [ __ ] i woke him up [Music] do you hear any officers outside okay they're in the area [Music] see if they can come in side doors a little like um sorry is there a padlock on the bedroom door is it just a regular lock no no i don't even i don't even know if it's a lot so are you laying down no [Music] without making [Music] noises is the door to the house open i don't know probably [Music] i don't think he has a key i'm not sure because they can be broken here can you see out any window that you're at you're all um you're all curtains shut okay you think you can get out you need to get out unless they were right here [Music] finally the woman hears officers approaching her location and wearily makes her way out of the bedroom [Music] are you out of the bedroom yes [Music] it doesn't have to go you need to push the door doesn't have a doorknob they said push the door just push it [Music] can you hear anybody right now she turned the side door open i think [Music] [Music] can you get out of the house it's locked are you at the door yeah yeah she's at the door [Music] is there a window there yeah i'm looking out and they tell him to come back she said i hurry she said to hurry up and come back yeah they can see me if they come on can you unlock the door at all rescuers say the traumatized woman was completely nude and frozen from shock when they finally got the door open to save her once she snapped out of her fear enough to run outside officers immediately went in to apprehend her abductor [Music] okay they found 40 year old sean great lying face down on the bed inside a yellowing abandoned house surrounded by huge filthy piles of trash dirty clothes and stuffed animals [Music] police initially believed they were dealing with an open and shut case of abduction and assault but what the interrogation slowly uncovered will leave you horrified sean great's crimes were far more extensive and even more disturbing than anyone could have ever imagined and it's all revealed in his interrogations in a variety of never-before-seen video clips and exclusive audio tapes sean will tell his own story sean was hastily helped into a pair of shorts read his rides and transported to the police division for questioning and the more investigators learned about the perpetrators past activities the more they realized just how extremely lucky this jane doe was to have escaped with her life sean enters a small room sparsely decorated and enclosed by neutral walls and carpets meant to calm a suspect's mind and limit distractions not only does this help both interrogators and suspects focus but it can also make interviewees more relaxed and willing to accept their fate aside from a brief look around the room during which he takes stock of his surroundings and may have noticed the camera with a brief eye contact he sits quietly with his head down staring at the table barely moving a muscle he likely knows he's being recorded his hunched over posture may be a subconscious attempt to make himself small insignificant and unnoticed effectively attempting to hide in plain sight his hanging head suggests shame his tapping foot and jittery legs could either signify impatience or anxiety but watching his body his respiration appears to remain normal in both depth and pacing the interrogator is about to enter and you'll notice that right away sean doesn't hesitate to make eye contact this is an act of curiosity he's likely sizing the man up and immediately starting to create a mental image of them being opponents the interrogator shows up with a notepad this is standard but in reality all interrogations in the station are usually recorded meaning that the folios carried by the detectives are generally props although some items may be written down when pertinent to establishing timelines motive opportunity intent or means david lay you are sean shaking hands and asking sean's name although he already knows it is the interrogator taking the first step in building personal rapport the behavior shows respect instead of animosity it tells sean hey i just want to talk let's have a cordial conversation however having a cordial conversation is no easy task when the interrogator's primary motive here is to establish the elements of abduction and dual assault you go by a different name what's your proper name is it shawn is your proper name [Applause] the interrogator confirms the suspect's proper name again to make sure he addresses him in a respectful way well listen man we need to talk about things that happened this morning because she's she's pretty shook up yeah so can you tell me where you want to start i mean how'd you meet her the interrogator has again made conscious efforts to avoid displaying any adversarial indicators and he has strategically transitioned into the topic at hand by asking sean where he wants to start and establishing an open-ended discourse while this type of broad question can sometimes produce a rambling answer it also tends to unfetter the suspect to say anything they want which can be very advantageous unfortunately in this case shawn just asked to go to the bathroom they got me right out of bed and i've been having to pee for a while who got you right out of bed the cops and stuff okay and i've been sitting in the vehicle i was wondering if i could use the restroom you want to go to the bathroom sure we'll take you to the bathroom real quick if uh did they search you no i don't know okay well just hold on this is actually i was naked that's why i was naked oh they put the shorts on they put the shorts on me so that's probably why i did it so yeah i've been searched shawn's demeanor is already visibly more at ease he's leaned back with his arms up yawning stretching wiping his eyes and maintaining an open posture for extended periods of time the difference compared to his earlier body language is striking the threat of the unknown has subsided after this amicable first meeting the interrogator's deliberate work to make him comfortable by not threatening or intimidating has gained him a measure of cooperation and possibly even trust from sean sean returns and sits hunched over again playing with his hands and placing his head on the table all right where were we telling me about where how you met the crop center how long ago about two months ago okay what were you doing there they do deserve lunch every day monday through friday i met her there the kroc center is a community service ran by the salvation army jane doe met sean there in late july the pair would often have lunch play tennis and take long walks together and she eventually grew to think of him as a goofy but kind older brother sean had mentioned wanting more than a friendship but she turned him down refusing to exchange phone numbers with the man and not letting him inside her apartment because of her strong religious boundaries sean says he had just gotten to ashland when they became friends where are you from um i came from mansfield okay child support issue there i ran it's just been a headache well you ran from the court over there because you have money the interrogator likely already knows substantial background information on sean but he wants to hear it straight from the suspect starting with how he came to live in the home he was found in whose house is it i'm not too sure so you just like squatting in there yeah okay good man i appreciate your honesty okay this is kind of the the steps that we need to take here you know you're being honest with me now keep up the honesty and everything's gonna go all right okay immediately after positively reinforcing sean's honesty and reminding him that it would be beneficial for him to tell the truth the interrogator jumps right into the main issue at hand so how did you end up today well we've been talking about marriage and stuff like that getting really close okay note the tension in sean while the interrogator assumes a very relaxed position he wants to appear non-threatening to avoid making sean nervous and keep him talking questions about his relationship with jane remain open-ended and the interrogator just let sean ramble and talk for the most part only steering the conversation every now and then to help establish timelines by getting details from the suspect the police can develop good evidence to present to a prosecutor we both may be getting cold feet i'm not too sure but yeah i'm for it like little cold feet from her you know i mean like she pushed me away then we get things back all right and then yeah it's like cold feet in the air type so it's like complications again and so many complications and then she talked about this guy named daniel and i just lost it when was she talking about the guy named daniel um that's about five years old over uh like a five year past relationship that she had yeah she's like oh i'm gonna wait for daniel now like like she's just gonna like like say all that she's been saying and then out of the blue just bring up another guy just to try to make me back away or something i'm not too sure what she was thinking sean starts to establish his own motive frustration over cold feet and jealousy over another man however his claim that he and jane have been discussing marriage is completely opposite of her testimony it makes no sense that such a conservative and cautious woman would jump into that big commitment with a man she'd only known for a handful of weeks shawn is likely just trying to make their relationship seem more intimate than it really was perhaps thinking it helps his case in some way she's in doubt about marrying me pretty much okay but how did you how long have you been with her like today how long has she been in that house with you all right 24 hours okay where did you meet her to bring her back to the house her place at this point the interrogator is starting to work the timeline backwards from the crime to how long jane was with sean to where jane came from by determining how long the two had known each other and that jane had gone to sean's place of residence he's attempting to establish sean's intent to commit the crime [Music] so how did you get there i mean just how do you get there to well her apartment okay and then you take her where oh we walked around and we went back to where i was staying okay just kind of started fooling around a little bit and then things got carried away explain carried away um okay no don't you know i mean we're not ready for that which we we've studied we've dealt with that before she's saying yeah now what's she meaning when she's saying that at this point by establishing the existence of the conflict over whether or not the pair wanted to have intercourse the investigator is starting to work on establishing not only motive but also the elements of the crime of intercourse under force or threat without the consent of the victim now what's she meaning when she's saying that what when she says no what's she talking about here the interrogator is clearly trying to establish that sean knew jane wasn't consenting by saying no watch how quickly sean catches on to this and avoids using the specific word no all the channels say no so they all stop but you know it'll work we're not gonna we don't do this we don't fool around because we're gonna wait for marriage you don't fool around you talking intercourse anything anything okay all right no kidding or anything i just like my does just get real tap on the back you know just the conversations we have like not always like it's nice conversation stuff so did you guys have yeah we end up having the interrogator has successfully established element 1 intercourse he's now going to work on element 3 lack of consent against her will well it ended up she didn't like it and she's really beating herself up about it so it looks like you might have hit her a couple times i did because i lost control i do well let's let's explore that okay okay why did you lose control now he's working on element two force or threat he's gotten sean to admit that he lost control and hit jane um a lot of it's that she's marrying me marry me she won't marry me you know it's like this is it a lot of leading me on yeah and i didn't just download it or what made me snap or took me out of my character where'd you hit her yeah she's got a fat lip yeah that's where i got that from from punching her well like her tooth oh i had to about me okay yeah our tooth had to have gotten me sean has now shown exactly where he hit jane so when when did this happen about 24 hours ago okay and you were in the middle of 20 posture well we are with our fight and everything made up after you punched her yeah okay now you know we talked about honesty earlier okay i mean she's saying that she didn't want to happen that you punched her she may not want to have like afterwards after what after i hit her how many times did you um end up being a few times within 24 hours the interrogator is about to correct shawn's timeline and confront him with information that counters his story now she's saying that she's been with you since sunday do you know what today is on monday today's tuesday today if you thought it was my day okay so we're talking over 24 hours sunday you've been with it right yeah time since i've been sleep so you've got you've been with us since sunday evening yeah sunday evening okay can you tie down a time when you guys got together six o'clock probably in the evening okay go straight to the apartment um she's saying you tied her down to a bed i mean what's the deal with all the straps on the mattresses i did tie her down i abducted her you abducted her yes explain that for all this time that he's been trying to play it cool sean breaks a little here using the harsh word abduct to describe his actions like he realizes that it's no use to keep up the charade the interrogator remains calm and proceeds with more open-ended questions like explain that to just let the suspect open up and provide all the facts and evidence the interrogator needs to establish the occurrence of the crime in reality jane says she'd agreed to come to sean's place because he said he had clothes to give her once there she sat reading passages from the bible while shawn went to the kitchen of the home but when he came back his demeanor had completely changed he snatched the bible away from her and said you're not going anywhere she tried to kick punch and push him away but says everything she did he did so much harder she kept fighting until shawn began to choke her and that's when she says she knew she couldn't escape this was only the beginning of the horrible torment sean would inflict upon her a assault expert would later explain that the details of this case reminded her of a duality commonly seen in abusers using the jekyll and hyde model on the outside on any given day she says abusers often seem like people you wouldn't be threatened by at all but there's this persona that comes out from time to time and usually towards the person that they want to see it entire games trying to get down to if she's going to marry me or not so you just held her there because you wanted to find out if she was going to marry a lot of questions and stuff and yeah it was very nightmare could you imagine her you just wanted to make sure she didn't get away because you wanted her no what explained just wanted her to relax spend some time with me well it's kind of hard for somebody to relax if you tying them down don't you think yeah sean has now admitted to holding jane there tying her down and eventually untying her but when called out on how bizarre his reasoning is for this he appears to smile or laugh just a little before quickly turning his face away from the interrogator so how long was she tied down no long how did she get out or out from the ties i am tired except for like like last night i just i tied her legs down just a little bit so you've tied her down at least twice yeah just kind of like just slow her down because she's moving around a lot like just relax i'm gonna take you home here jane says shawn actually tied her up at least three times in weird positions or to the bed he was even so despicable as to shave a heart into her pubic hair a restraint was placed around her neck at one time and she was threatened not to move or she'd strangle herself well how many times did jeff's with her when now she's telling us something different i mean she was never tied down though the investigator goes on to ask sean how he got in the abandoned home in the first place establishing facts for breaking and entering which is likely another charge that the d.a will add to the criminal case but sean suddenly changes the topic to interject with this repeated denial okay well that's i mean you know i'm glad you're you're telling me but you still did i mean you told me you abducted her what does that mean to you i mean i care about abducting somebody means that you care about her yeah in this situation sean starts to stretch acting oddly relaxed likely the interrogator's own relaxed nature is being imprinted on sean it's also possible that at this point sean realizes he has no way to defend his actions and is slowly starting to accept the severity of the crime get her out of her apartment why do you have to get our out of her apartment hide does she live with anybody she stays in and hides behind the bible all the time are you religious yeah i believe in jesus christ died for our sins sean speaks with a lowered head while addressing religion and sin this may be an indicator of remorse but without other body language to go off of i'd say it's more likely a lie sean being strangely judgmental of people and thinking he knows what is best for them is a common thread that will come up again many times here he is starting to reveal his true colors so she's pretty religious how many times do you think he has with her terribly seem like a lot but it lasts a long time it gets a bit graphic as the interrogator asks about the specifics of the encounters such as if protection was used and where seminal fluid would be found he is looking for information on where to locate additional evidence or trying to see if the suspect victim and crime scene all line up sean's body language noticeably tightens up during this discussion okay it's interesting how sean walks back his story now before he claimed they had intercourse multiple times now it seems he's making it out to be only once how many times did you ask i could end up being a few times within 24 hours now the interrogator is going to start prying into who else in the area sean knows he's fishing for a specific person and it is obvious by how many times sean dodges the question that he doesn't want to give a straight answer who else do you know from the phone call the apartment complex that he lives in oh just her pretty much pretty much who else do you know that uh john guy how many friends you know that's one the other day who's that after letting sean ramble for a while the interrogator comes right out with what he's really asking now the patrol guys are saying you know and elizabeth elizabeth um i met her one time outside i guess i did her well i talked to a few people out there but that was just like a moment um played some badminton when i was playing badminton and elizabeth come outside talk to us describe elizabeth um elizabeth okay like blonde hair big blond hair big girl okay do you know her last name griffith sound from here elizabeth griffith a 29 year old local woman went missing friends say elizabeth was outgoing and friendly spending much of her time at church or the kroc center she was happy always singing wherever she went and a compassionate person you could count on to lend a helping hand but elizabeth suffered from mental health problems and a therapist who oversaw her day-to-day needs says she suffered from paranoid schizophrenia with mania she would call a community mental health line about every other night as she would frequently have both auditory and visual hallucinations at one point it even escalated to the point that she put kerosene on her head and set her hair on fire elizabeth clearly needed frequent and regular help and the counselors knew her well but one day she started missing appointments she last called in on august 15th on september 7th her apartment was checked out by her therapist and a caseworker and she was nowhere to be found but her therapist knew her habits like the back of her hand and felt in her gut something was very wrong when did you see her when did you meet her she's been probably two months ago when i first seen it like seeing her talking to her at the yard playing batman and then play batman again then i just seen her come go and come in and talk to neighbors do you ever hook up with her do you ever try to knowing sean's motive in jane's case the interrogator pointedly asks sean questions to gauge if he had a physical interest in elizabeth no i like that not like that how oh i don't see her like that hooking up with her how do you see her she's trying to find her way i don't know wait i mean just trying to i don't know she talked constantly just for like the five minutes while i was playing batman what's she talking about uh the uh the mental hospital and stuff that she's dealing with yeah she had some issues she's missing that's why i heard sean has admitted he was aware of elizabeth's disappearance the interrogator is now setting aside the case with jane and digging for more information on a possible additional crime related to sean the interrogator wants to know why and how sean was already aware elizabeth was missing he sees a hole in sean's story impresses a little more how'd you hear that um tracy at the croc center tracy um told you that yeah and her friend that we met the other day who's the friend i think her name is susan what did i say about elizabeth she just don't know don't know what she's thinking that she's at a mental hospital somewhere i don't know me well usually if that's the case they we could find that out pretty easy also i mean yeah we don't think she's at a mental hospital if you know where she's at or if you've had any contact with her you know just keeping along the same lines of being honest this is when you need to tell me yeah so when was the last time you had contact with her i've had no contact with her because it kind of makes me wonder if since i talked about her and you've talked about her if you haven't seen her since she's been missing further searching had only confirmed that elizabeth was in trouble as asking around the community revealed that nobody had seen her for weeks and one woman who says elizabeth was like a younger sister to her shared that the woman had been in a real giddy mood but anxious like she really needed to talk about something her friend assumed she'd met somebody elizabeth attempted to contact this woman on august 16th but unfortunately the friend wasn't available to pick up the call after that elizabeth vanished that night at 11 pm though she had also made a call to another number one belonging to sean great the interrogator carefully but clearly starts the process of accusing sean of having something to do with the other missing woman kinda makes me wonder if you didn't have something to do with her being missing i understand the situation yeah i mean it kind of looks funny sean looks away and puts his head down for a few moments looks strange i mean you know what's going on no i really don't i'm hoping you can help me sean seems suspicious that the police already know what's going on you'll soon see exactly why this is because if if there's any kind of connection you know with you and elizabeth it's it's very important that we find elizabeth because she's got some psychological issues she's got some health issues some medical issues oh yeah so i mean if you were to know where she was and we could find her that would go a long way to help him yeah you know where she's at i wish i could help i don't know what to say right now well i mean you could go but you could start by just continuing to be honest i mean you know you told me that you considered yourself that you abducted did you abduct elizabeth the same way no two different people well i know they're two different people but the circumstances are kind of the same after the interrogator draws clear parallels between the two women's cases and reminds sean that he's already admitted that he would and has abducted somebody he goes quiet and waits to see if sean will break the uncomfortable silence perhaps by acknowledging the similarities between the disappearances or offering incriminating information so how do you feel about what you did sean wasn't cracking and so the interrogator tries a different tactic dropping the topic of elizabeth completely this visibly relaxes sean however he now has to directly think about his actions what do you think should happen to you it's probably something why she's able to forgive me well you know forgiveness is a big part of religion sean mentions forgiveness but the interrogator quickly reminds him of religious faith cueing him to think about doing the right thing that's what i'm saying you know if if you know anything about elizabeth then it's a perfect time for us to talk about it get to the bottom of it and see what we can salvage the interrogator will now share for at least the second time that he thinks sean had something to do with elizabeth's disappearance i think i think it's very possible you had something to do with elizabeth sean continues to look away tense and hunched down when elizabeth is brought up he attempts to make himself smaller in these actions in stark contrast to his wide addy stretches earlier on this anxious response clearly indicates deception whether it's an attempt to withhold information or an indication of guilt remains to be seen this guy chill right now it's so cold i don't know i'm still trying to deal with what i don't know i'm confused about this event sean says he's confused the interrogator immediately sits back in a more open and less imposing posture when a suspect claims confusion it's often an indicator that they either having problems maintaining a lie or that they are about to expose their own lie by creating a more open environment the interrogator suddenly provides a space for sean to also open up well i don't want to confuse you i mean let's deal with and put that to bed then and then we'll move on so what what do you want to talk about still i just want wanted her to wonder what was going to go on you know i i know i'm just glad you know she's okay yeah she's okay i mean she's mentally you know she's a little messed up physically she's injured i mean you know you've got the cut on your hand well she's got some bruises on her arms too where did you tie these straps into her to her arms to her body we're at point to your body where you tied the straps well i did this disarm up through here right you put her arm under there yeah put my her arm under her leg and then tied on her wrist to here at this point the interrogator is building the story against sean asking about her physical injuries and specifically probing into the means and the methods sean used to restrain jane sean says he used a scarf and maybe a shirt to tie her down so you tie her arm under her leg why that position one tie was she unable to move is she tied down to the mattress from the other side no not till i had to leave so you left at some point when was that eight o'clock to nine o'clock am or pm pm on sunday or monday one day so when you left you tied her down to the mattress why you'll notice that as the topic stays on jane sean keeps his eye mostly on the interrogator he's already on the hook for her case so he has nothing left to hide at this point just for cigarettes i just left for cigarettes i came back and untied her but why did you tire when you left so she would couldn't leave yeah so what cigarettes did you smoke when you went through monday night the dick marvel black one you bought the marlboro black one hundreds the interrogator asks shawn his choice of cigarettes discarded bots can link a suspect to a crime scene and also establish dna matches so when you come back you untie her from the bed but you keep her arm tight under her leg well i have tighter ball when she gets there sunday evening at what point do you initially tie her up when she wants to leave at what point does she want to leave and you tie her up i didn't tie her up at all i pretty much she just sat there with me on sunday okay but at some point you said she wanted to leave and you had to stop her from leaving when did that happen yeah but i didn't tie her up i just held her and said i started off like just for us to hold each other heller what would describe the hold just lay down hold each other just do you mean hold her down on her mattress chest right on my she put her head on my chest and said late there i mean she might not she might have probably been unwilling to do that why we just wanted to hold her okay you wanted to hold her but she didn't want to be held is that what you're saying she wanted to be held no that's not what you just said you said she couldn't let it happen because she wanted it you think she wanted it the interrogator is re-establishing that sean used force against jane but also poking holes in his timeline in order to clear up what happened and when however you'll notice that his tone is getting increasingly combative the longer sean refuses to be forthcoming this may be a deliberate tactic that he's employing since being nice hasn't pulled much out of sean or it may just be his genuine frustration showing through at sean's attempts to justify what he did to jane either way it's going to backfire and make sean shut down a bit she's told you she didn't want it you admitted earlier she said she didn't want to she says it's not right okay but that's telling you she doesn't want to have it right yes okay that's not right but you didn't want to let her go so you just hold her when you say oh you're hugging her actually i didn't even do that what did you just sit down well see you're kind of all over the board here dude i mean you told me that you held her i mean i never held her like a stranger at some point you did well at that point at that first initiative okay at the very first time just stay here relax you know i did joke about abduction and then i ended up being abducted how do you how do you joke about it i should i should abduct you keep you up and say stay with me for a few days and then it ended up happening that way so at what point did you actually have to tie her down when she decided she wanted to leave other than the time when i left i tied her down i tied her down the interrogator continues to firmly establish that jane was physically restrained and held against her will this is where the interrogation footage ends but we do have audio of the rest of this interview sean continues to make far-fetched claims that he planned for jane to escape all along other than the time left i tied her down i tied her down just a little bit before last night and i fell asleep which is good that's the way i planned it barely tire up i fall asleep so you you planned it that way yeah i wanted her to leave i knew she was gonna need one this morning i knew that she would be able to untie herself by showing he had one strap around her legs that's it so you how long ago did you plan this just happened okay but last night when you tied her up the way you planned it you explained that yeah i wanted her to be i already told her fall asleep just leave did you think you worry about getting in trouble yes i have to deal with the consequences the interrogator is clearly not buying this story jane would later testify that she did have several conversations with sean where he promised he would let her go soon but it never happened what's more she says she couldn't move at all without him jumping into reaction that she did not eat anything the entire duration of her entrapment and that she wasn't even allowed to go to the bathroom without sean walking her there with these details in mind shawn's claims that he intended for jane to get free are likely a ploy to make him look marginally better however the interrogator cuts him off and forces him to look at the fact that his actions indisputably meet the definitions of some very serious crimes no matter how much he might try to reframe them you know you talked about you abducted her you've you've had sex with her against your will too yes or no yes i did what do you call that and how many times do you think you're there it might not have been after after the first time i don't know if it was under her after against her will or if she was just going with it my guess is she wasn't just going with it we can already see sean embodying the signs of a typical abuser enthusiastic consent means looking for the presence of a yes but when sean speculates that jane may have just been going with it it suggests he believes the absence of a no suffices teacher she enjoyed it what's that so she enjoyed it other times no because it wasn't against her will the first time may have been the first time may have been against her well well the first time was pretty much so definitely you're telling me the first time was against her well okay pretty much explain how that happened why do you think that was against her will the first time yet because she kept saying no that it's not right you know and so how did you make it against her will try to kept talking to her talking her into it and probably like kind of touch her belly right he was standing up so you i was just just trying to give you a hug you know i was trying to talk myself into like to get to get close to her you know i just wanna give you how you know it's we gotta move beyond this some psychological researchers have argued that assault is not about the enjoyment of the act itself but more about dominating someone while it certainly may be a combination of both for sean it seems that more than anything jane's pure virtue strict boundaries and strong aversion to premarital intercourse unfortunately felt like a challenge to him sean goes on to talk about where he's lived since arriving in town around june or july he constructed a makeshift fort in the woods and at one point broke into two campers where he stole valuables and even lived in one while the owners were gone he broke into a flea market which is where he stole tasers along with other property he also took up residence in a former hessen clark building which was supposed to be vacant before breaking into the house he was apprehended at which had electricity but no water the interrogator asks what friends he's made while in the area and shawn's response is sickening who you call friend over here i don't know if she'd call you a friend at this point she still loves me though i mean honestly she cares for me she wants the best for me that's what's so bad about the situation more than anything but she still cares she cares about me though i don't know what i'm trying to do with me i'm more of it she cares well you know that's a good thing [ __ ] yeah good heart's a sign of a good christian yeah one of the diagnoses sean would receive after later testing is personality disorder which includes many traits narcissistic being among them this is likely one underlying cause of sean's lack of empathy for jane's suffering and the way he seems to feel entitled to her forgiveness do you think you've got a good heart yeah i think you are but you know what we're all confused at some point man and a lot of times you just need a trigger to go forward to move forward put things behind you and move forward and you know this could be your trigger if you realize you've been doing the wrong stuff and doing some things you're not proud of you know this is this is that trigger the interrogator puts aside his own feelings about what sean is saying in order to stay relatively positive framing sean's cooperation and honesty about his bad deeds as a sort of opportunity to repent now he will try to play off that to get more confession out of sean what else has been going on that you're not proud of sean dodges the question by talking about how he's been struggling to keep a job he worked briefly at a save a lot store i had to quit i can't keep a job for so long because eventually the police report's going to come back that i have a job here i understand i just kept thinking like dang it's probably time for the police to come here and get me from my warrant for your child support warrant so you're just you don't want to keep a job for three weeks because you think the law is going to find you arrest you on the just the situation not normal in the past no sean has three kids he was actually jailed at least once for not paying child support and reports that he was in and out of jail between roughly 2005-2015 became a drifter who roamed from place to place next sean says he's been stressed lately and the interrogator asks him why just trying to get it right well let me help you get it right how are you gonna help me get it right tell me what do you need to get right and i'll help you i could do that through prayer you try that that way it's the only way however if you thought sean was about to finally crack or express some form of sincere remorse for anything he's done think again here's how he steers the topic you could help me if i could have coffee or anything like that you need some drinks wonderful what do you need what you want can i have coffee might get you used to caffeine right now i can get you a coffee you want anything in the coffee whatever you like then you tell me you like it black do you want a little cream i am a little spoiled what's that i am a little spoiled cream and sugar wouldn't be nice a little creamy sugar's fine with me sean breaks the silence that follows by bringing up jane again saying she'll be okay out of nowhere the interrogator plays along to see what shawn will say well the good thing about she's here she got out this morning you know because you planned on not tying her tight right so she could get away this morning yeah get away okay let's go so i mean she's good we know where she's at so i know i hit her once it's good you know it might look different i did isolate connected pretty good i didn't mean to lie down there like she got me i don't know if it's an accident i mean it wasn't you hit her closed fist yeah and you got it right on that knuckle that's where people that's what happens i mean that's the knuckle that you're going to connect with when you throw a punch thought a few of my time and that's what happens because that nickel knuckle sticks out there yeah you don't you don't make a fist and accidentally punch somebody the interrogator is about to perfectly verbalize one of the signature traits of abusers their tendency to deny or minimize the seriousness of their violence and its effect on the victim pay attention also to how sean tries to paint the narrative that this was an isolated incident which was out of character for him it will later become clear that this is very disingenuous i've never done it before well yeah just you know don't try to minimize it i mean you punched her yeah you're right oh man minimizing it that's good honesty is the best policy at this point the interrogator cleverly gets his foot in the door by getting sean to agree that honesty is better than minimizing his actions now he'll use this opportunity to pry deeper so what else about have you kind of minimized you want to get off your chest i didn't make her do some things like one you know at first yeah i wasn't too sure she i knew she wasn't for it her mind was just always thinking about it all the time and that's what the problem was how do you know our mind was thinking about it because we talk about it a lot it was a topic every day dealing with the battle and just our desires we need to argue we get married sean is now moving towards victim blaming and placing his own evaluation on what he thinks jane wanted one psychologist experienced in working with those convicted of crimes at a state prison has explained that many of them especially those with anti-social personality which sean himself was also diagnosed with exhibit thinking errors with the tendency to distort reality this can cause them to interpret an innocent and friendly interaction as a sign of interest in sean's case he really takes these presumptions to the next level so what did you make her do that she didn't want to do well i went by her lustful desires shared something with wonderful with her now the interrogator starts to get into the graphic specifics of the assault i won't play much for you but there are a few things that sean says that standout is particularly bold and insensitive keep in mind that jane has stated she was slightly assaulted in every way imaginable so explain to me what you did to her that she didn't want to do here the interrogator asks sean to tell him step by step how he forced jane to perform these acts this proves to be a huge obstacle for sean as almost a minute of silence goes by before he can muster up any words i just told her too i just told her too she didn't want to first just do it we're already gone this far so where did this happen was she tied down oh i tied her down when i left this is the first sign of real emotion we're seeing from sean's entire interview thus farm it's hard to tell how genuine this slight breakdown is as he still seems conflicted on whether or not what he did was wrong so did you threaten her i was trying to think that i threatened her we're reverting back to the task of concretely establishing the element of force or threat in a few moments the interrogator will cut off sean's denials which is a common technique what'd you say to her the threat i just told her to do it but i didn't think i had to threaten her and remember what we talked about minimizing tell me what you told her to make her do it because you've already said she did it against her will how did you make her do it against her will what'd you say to her well i'm i gotta pretty much just grab here sean is now prompted to speak on what happened after he assaulted jane i don't get all scared don't know what to do and what do you end up doing so you think of a plan yeah that's gonna walk her home well first we thought about just turning myself in i was gonna do it you were gonna turn yourself in why the right thing to do so why didn't you because she wouldn't be be it i just wanted to see her for another day okay so what happened how do you keep her there for another day just sit there in the room with her lot most of the time so later on i just wanted to go get cigarettes i needed it i couldn't just sit there so that's when you tied her up yes sean would later reveal that he also took jane's keys went to her apartment and stole some money from her wallet at this point the interrogator seems to be feeling he's gotten all he can out of sean about jane for the time being so he's going to transition back to elizabeth he knows all the signs are adding up and now he makes one final big push using pressure this time to get sean to admit he knows something so you know what we're going to do today is we've got a lot of work to do we'll go through that house and we're going to collect some evidence and what i'm afraid is one of the places that we go through today because we'll go through the hessen clark building because you stayed there we'll look on the railroad tracks because you stayed there i'm afraid that we're going to find some evidence related to elizabeth and if that's the case and you haven't talked to me about it and been straight up with me it's not going to look good so i want to give you the opportunity before we dig into that to be honest with me about elizabeth so what do you know about her disappearing there's almost another full minute of silence often interrogators deliberately refrain from breaking these tense and awkward gaps so that the suspect is forced to be the first to speak but sean surprisingly just lets it run on without getting too uncomfortable and the interrogator jumps back in perhaps reasoning that an innocent person would immediately be able to deny their involvement and not have to think about their answer this long what do you know about her she's crazy how do you know that more silence and the interrogator keeps prodding sean to help himself by telling the truth then sean slips up you know how she is no where's she this is the second time that shawn has expressed this belief that law enforcement doesn't already know where elizabeth is you're probably wondering why and so was this interrogator you see when officers first apprehended shawn at the abandoned home they couldn't have known that they were actually stumbling into the lair of a serial killer in reality their suspicions about sean having done something to elizabeth are correct and the missing woman is right under the investigator's noses in the first and most obvious place they look the very house where shawn had kept jane captive police just hadn't found her yet at the time of this conversation because search warrants were still being drafted so what we're going to see is the bizarre dynamic of a confused murderer who believes officers must have already found his victim's body and are just stringing him along to see what he'll spill and an interrogator who genuinely has no idea where elizabeth is sean then starts to say some really eerie but cryptic things about elizabeth's status she set free no more problems y'all to cry tomorrow how'd you set her free she jumped on my back what happened she kept crying to me see how much you hate this world and everything just died sean starts to stay quiet for so long in between speaking that you can imagine he's having an internal battle over whether or not to keep fighting or just come do things that they can't do yourself how did you help her do something she couldn't do did you help her kill herself sean well i try to be encouraging for her don't leave people alone just not even worried about talking to nobody you know just isolate yourself for a while and then whoever gets away you see who your true friends are so where's she at sean she's got a lot of family that's worried about her i'm worried about her i know you know where she's at she makes a lot of people worry about her sean insists he wants to cooperate but continues to deny he knows where elizabeth is sean am i going to find her in one of those places that i told you about let's not let him get to that point i can tell that you know where she's at you've said you helped her find peace i didn't talk to her when did you talk to her when was this look maybe one more week ago or so where did you talk to around in front of the yard out there playing badminton it's a sad situation elizabeth has been missing for several weeks at this point since mid-august so already there's a huge problem with shawn's story that they spoke just one week previously he continues to claim that helping her find peace just meant talking to her and allowing her to clear her mind of her worries and relax the interrogator reminds him that he's already made it sound like he knows where she is shawn continues to play dumb and this is when we see a tactic shift patrol said you've had some dark thoughts lately what's that about did you tell an officer this morning you had some dark thoughts did you tell some people you had some dark thoughts lately no if you had dark thoughts no thoughts about hurting people or no no dark thoughts remember what i said earlier that we're gonna go through all those places man that's fine yeah it's fascinating to listen to shawn's feigned confusion as he straight up lies to the interrogator's face i thought a beard he already would are we going to find elizabeth in there any of those places where we're gonna find her i'm sure you guys already been through her apartment she's not in there i'm hibernating where do you think she's at i don't know that's what i was like dang i so i asked does she have family sean then bizarrely starts pitting jane and elizabeth against one another claiming that jane dissed elizabeth and made her feel bad the interrogator doesn't let him go off on this tangent any longer though instead he inquires if sean knows about another unnamed missing woman from the area sean rapidly changes the subject to go on a rant about an amber alert he'd heard but the investigator steers him back on topic once again any person that's gone that's an issue it's a big issue yeah yeah definitely kind of like what you did it's kind of a big issue elizabeth's a big issue yes so wait no you said someone else that's a big issue oh yeah all from the same area that you've been hanging out oh all in the same time frame that you've been here this is what i'm telling you dude yeah wow you know we're going to be looking at a lot of places today i'm gonna be straight up with you because i think you're bullshitting me what's up if i link any of these women these other two women to you and the places you've been you're going to have even bigger issues and this is what i'm saying this is the opportunity for you to put everything on the table i've treated you fairly do you agree or not agree i agree so if you know more about elizabeth and another woman please use this opportunity let's talk about them let's find them let's get closer for their family let's move on okay yeah i mean i understand that closure so where's elizabeth i'm not too sure where elizabeth is do you know what happened to her no the interrogator attempted to appeal to sean's emotions by bringing up the fact that the grieving families of the women need closure but it doesn't appear to sway sean in the slightest the investigator finally just instructs shawn to sit alone drink his coffee and think hard about if he wants to tell the truth but as soon as he returns and asks if sean is ready to come clean about anything shawn immediately goes back to jane instead of addressing elizabeth he ends up revealing a few more sickening details about how he violated her for hours for hours and away but she wasn't saying no she says you took some video of her from your cell phone yeah yeah well i acted like a video might yeah that might have been a video so where's your cell phone filming a video of his victim in the act is likely a way of trophy taking for sean a way for him to relive his crime later on so what are you telling her you how are you talking to her trying to be nice no no i'm not playing that game i mean i ain't yelling at her what are you saying to her actually i don't say much to her you know i know what you're saying how did i act and how they bossed her around i mean i didn't really ask for much but once we started you know she liked it and everything you know i don't really believe that i think i turned myself in that she would forgive me and possibly marry me she told you that you think maybe she's just telling you that to get you off of her well yeah yeah of course i understand she's staying she's talking survival mode you know she's afraid something's going to happen to her she's afraid she's going to get hurt yeah possibly killed yeah i understand what she her nerves and everything right yeah so she's just telling you things to get you to let her go yeah i understand she's saying that you were putting pills in her mouth jane testified that shawn forced her to take muscle relaxers sean tries to tell the interviewer he actually just gave her energy drink shots because she wanted a boost shawn admits to duct taping jane's mouth shut so she wouldn't yell when he tied her up and left the home he's asked about a stun gun and tries to brush it off as something he got a long time ago and says he doesn't think it still works that he just uses it as a flashlight if this stun gun is the same device that jane accidentally set off during the 9-1-1 call then this obviously doesn't add up and the interrogator isn't convinced did you tell her it was a stun gun well she already knew what it was how did she know what it was how'd she know it was a stun guy because i i carried in my pocket to her place so you've mentioned it before that it was a stun gun yeah i showed her how it was asked her she needed one i needed it so you've showed her that zapped so it works it used to work i showed her about two weeks ago i don't know if it works now because a bunch of candle wax is on where'd you get it sean beats around the bush concerning elizabeth for a few more minutes and then this conversation comes to a close the interrogator was successful in getting sean to admit to non-consensual intercourse with jane by means of force or threats intimidation alone can be sufficient to establish threats of force sean's violent behavior absent the abduction and restraining of jane could be sufficient for this element but the interrogator was able to procure even more information about specific physical items used to restrain jane and elaboration on the story of how jane was against premarital intercourse at least with sean which builds even more on the concept of there being no consent on jane's part however he was unable to secure a concrete confession concerning elizabeth but a little later that morning detective kim major steps in to try her hand at cracking the suspect and this is where things get really interesting because the vast majority of interrogation media we received for this case is between these two you see major took a different approach with sean date september 13 2016 time 10 53 am detective major preparing to interview sean she is immediately very kind with sean saying it's nice to meet him asking if he's okay and getting him coffee all right all right went through a lot okay a whole lot so i talked okay so i want to touch base about a few things boy she's got a beautiful heart doesn't she that sounds like she does sounds like there was a lot of maybe reading the bible with her and it looks like you were trying to find your walk your walk with christ there am i am i right okay and why does she know her stuff when it comes to that doesn't she yeah she's on my case all the time which is good yeah it is it is here's what i know okay i know that sometimes good people do stupid things and sometimes things kind of just explode one bad thing kind of turns into another bad thing so here's the deal sean and i'm kenny just call me kim okay it i don't think we can really be defined by a little block of time in our life all right we can we can make mistakes and we're not going to be defined by that sometimes things just happen sometimes good people do stupid things major has already separated sean from his actions setting a scene where he can still think of himself as a good person who just happened to do a few bad things her compassionate tone may seem like such a small thing but research shows establishing a friendly foundation can be absolutely vital to the success of these interviews a study done in the mid-2010s interviewed 34 interrogators who had handled international terrorism suspects to find out which strategies were most effective at gaining information they discovered that disclosure was 14 times more likely to occur early when a rapport building approach was used confessions were four times more likely when interrogators struck a neutral and respectful stance neutral and respectful are the perfect words to describe how major approaches this daunting interrogation i appreciate your candidness i appreciate your openness that you've already that you've already been trying to explain some things it looks like you know you have a conscience you feel you have some feelings i can see that i saw you tear up when i came in so yeah the detective uses positive reinforcement to praise shawn on the behavior she wants him to exhibit more of hearing that she sees him as an honest and good-hearted person with a conscience will make him want to live up to that image even though the detective probably doesn't really hold those opinions of him listen as she prized to see if shawn holds any remorse offering him the perfect chance to say he's sorry you could say something to her what would you tell her well i've been telling her she's hanging in there she's doing a really good job don't ever change did you tell you're sorry oh yeah well i can see that you're hurting um i can see that so i can see that go ahead what are you thinking more but i'm just trying to stay strong yeah the way major prompts and comfort sean feels almost like the way you'd speak to a child and although he half-heartedly agreed that he was sorry when asked his next words a response to being reminded how religious and strict jane was in her values shows that in his mind his actions were still at least somewhat justified yeah she doesn't do the phones no exchange of phone numbers she can't come in her apartment she's she's pretty strong on that let me ask you this it makes me wonder what she's hiding from as well versus all over her walls and everything but it's a she could just walk in to where i'm staying with no problem it's okay like it's like i can't go into her place which is fun but it's still she sees okay that she could come with me yet major is determined and continues prodding sean to see if he himself can realize and admit that his victim was never a willing participant and what happened to her when she came in your house do you think there's any part of her that thought she would have sex with you that's an honesty question do you think do you think she thought she was gonna have sex or do you think she thought she was helping another human be honest for her sake be honest she's torn a little bit above broadway i know she does maybe not because she's already dealt with a lot the past few days of dealing with loss and that's a lot one reason why she said she wanted to marry me because she was i don't get married so she's ready sean goes on to confess that he found jane more intriguing because of how much she pushed him away he admits he hit her once and says she flipped out but then tries to downplay the severity of the strike well i don't know if it's a tap our mouths are right but i think sometimes when things get out of control sometimes stuff happens like that right i don't know normally it don't get out of control the further we dig into sean's story the less this statement that things that don't normally get out of control holds up at this point major makes an effort to differentiate sean from the other bad guys she usually speaks with when you say that she's torn when i'm looking at you i i can kind of see in now sometimes i talk to people who you can't you can't see in somebody they don't have a conscience when i'm looking at you you you have feelings you have you have some feelings and i can see them the interrogator couches her negative statements within a positive build up to make them more palatable and lessen the chance of sean going on the defensive here's what i'm seeing with you but one of your strong points is is you kind of are stand up like you might make mistakes but you don't want to hold your mistakes inside in this situation the whole thing is a mistake i mean forcing yourself on somebody to have someone i don't want to is is a mistake right but shawn dodges major's question with a bizarre rant that essentially sounds like he's trying to imply a common thought process of simple abusers she was asking for it that wasn't that intentional it's like a simple tap i get like you know like sorry type of thing yeah i kind of liked you oh yeah it's like geez it's okay if she just sits on my lap i sit down and she just sits on my lap it's okay but i can't give her like a pat shoulder or anything and stuff we're talking about and she's like me because she doesn't want the physical piece yeah on her time major says she's talked with jane and just wants to make some sense of things she kind of told me what what you're saying like i want to let you go and i think you guys are putting a bag together for her but then the fear is this was like actually last night not this morning but like last night you were talking about letting her go but then wondering what's going to happen then are we going to are they going to come for me they're going to you know like i think nobody wants to go to jail the interrogator goes back to emphasizing honesty letting sean know that it's still worth it to tell the truth and allow the victim to heal how can i take back what i did you can let her put value on it you can let her know that you know what i do if i do is wrong it's not your fault because really it's not her fault and that's where the man up thing is you're you're a manly guy you're that's that's the piece of you that's that is there's a good piece there the guy that stands up to say that says i did what i did it was wrong she didn't deserve that and that i want her to be okay for her for her to be able to put value on it to 100 percent honesty it's there needed what to give both of us needed to have to get through our possible desires and needed to have in a way i mean okay and then and that's honesty don't and don't feel like hey if you if you have a thought like that she's just battling all the time i don't studies show that the fear experienced by a victim during the actual assault is immediately replaced by guilt and self-blame with this effect being the hardest to overcome specifically for women with strict religious backgrounds condemning non-marital relations this is exactly the sort of person jane was and so in addition to looking for more confession out of sean major also wants closure for jane in the form of her abuser explicitly saying that he forced and completely took advantage of her against her will but as we're seeing sean can't quite commit to saying he was fully in the wrong here just her dealing with her law school mind she's yeah she has a lostful mind i mean honestly she battles with all time and her and i her and others she shelters herself inside because of her lustful mind and i want to help her with that if any way i can before i actually surrender sean talks a bit about the things that have gone wrong in his life to lead him to this point and then he starts to break down which is a huge emotional shift from the unbothered demeanor he's been keeping up sorry you're going through everything you're still human you know what i mean it does matter sean it does and your whole moment might be right now it doesn't matter it does i'm just ready to be put in somewhere and do any key that's all i want you've given her peace right you give her peace by being honest right do you agree with me i know cause i know what she wanted she wanted you to be honest so that she can feel like a good girl because she is one major continues to hear sean out while soothing and showing concern which are important steps in continuing to build trust and rapport that will pay off down the road it don't matter life to me i died a long time ago on the cross whatever happens to me it does not matter temporary life anyways okay she tries to get shawn to see how his actions will have a long-term negative effect on his victim but he still finds a way to avoid this mentally do you think this will impact her for a long time [Applause] i didn't clear her lawful thoughts she'd be able to move on and stay focused now you think it will cause her some trust issues do you think they'll be worse she's still single never been married 36 she had really bad drugs issues major is about to shift the conversation to elizabeth once more she tells shawn that when she says they always figure things out in the end she really means it and lets him know that this can be a one conversation deal if they can manage to sort everything out properly we can't find elizabeth we'll find her but we can't right now hey look at me look at me i need your help okay i need your help i'm not here to judge you i'm not gonna leave your side we're gonna help it we're gonna i'm gonna ask you for your help here okay am i hearing me okay are you understand me when i talk can you help me major remains firm letting shawn know that the truth will eventually catch up to him but interestingly instead of intimidating him with the demand that he reveal where elizabeth is she gives him a small feeling of power by sincerely requesting his help sean is of course unwilling to come right out and say what he did at first but the interrogator keeps appealing to his emotions you came in and you said i don't care about me anymore i died a long time ago you're trying to help the situation with let's just put it in perspective with what you've described with um as far as doing things wrong that's that's pretty much there it is right so really anything that's happened with elizabeth is the same exact thing am i right am i right or wrong i'll do the same thing not that i mean i mean as a level of seriousness it can't be a whole lot different than that i'd say it's a whole lot different tell me how sean remains ambiguous trying to measure what the police already know but he's all too aware that the jane and elizabeth's situations aren't equal because one involves murder and major tries to unpack his vague statements i don't think she's okay we're past that i think for pasta oh you know she's not okay what you know she's not okay pretty much you already know that's what i believe that's what i believe um i i know maybe she's better off though hey she was tormented there are some things that i know about her that i do i do mentally produced uh that's just some little piece of it yeah it's bad for our own people we can tell sean is getting closer to that confession as he's already making justifications for ending her life however he suddenly decides to tell a story about his mother saying spiteful words after being scammed the interrogator's response is measured you know buy some magazines who brought over magazines right to my mom and my mom paid her and well no she ordered magazines she didn't actually just give her a chat order so she paid like 40 dollars for these magazines and then she never got them my mom's supposed to be a little christian woman and stuff yeah get hers you know someone's going to catch up with her someday yeah wishing her dead you know i think i understand about you you're like a perfect example of watching the people who matter to you let you down and watching what it creates in you now when i first heard sean go on this rant i thought this magazine seller anecdote was just a tangent to stall for time however sean is going to explain the horrifying significance of this story later on so keep this incident in mind for now major continues to remind sean of the people worried about elizabeth who desperately need answers she has a mom she has a mom you help me what's your mom like um feels like a failure devastated yeah she wants to bury her daughter sean continues to struggle with his disbelief that they haven't already found the body i know he's giving me a chance what you're giving me a chance here you know i am yeah you're giving me a chance can you take me to her you've already found her i haven't found her no no because yeah i said you're this song happened to her already hey i don't know you're trying to find somebody that did something to her more important than finding what happened to her is finding her body can you do that much for me obviously investigators would eventually want to know the details of exactly what happened to elizabeth but by boiling down her request to just this one simple action of showing them the body major focus is shawn's attention on a singular tangible goal post despite the storm of conflicted thoughts rushing through his head at this moment but sean defies expectations it's like the interrogators have gotten him 99 percent of the way towards confessing about elizabeth but instead of giving them that last one percent they need he switches gears and clearly implies that there are other victims maybe someone else or others matters it does how many are there he's rapidly going back and forth with indecision seeming completely lost on what course of action to take and knowing that there's no going back if he says too much sean expresses some misgivings but major reassures him that she will support him i'm not gonna leave your side okay believe that won't we can shed some light on why things happened right we can dissect her personality we can figure out a few things about her okay yeah we can explain we we can put some value to what happened okay will you take me to her you and me making sean feel like he has a lifeline in this stressful situation is key and major has repeatedly shown him that she is trustworthy and cares about his well-being sean starts to leak some of his true feelings about elizabeth and his words feel more on the bitter and disdainful side that's what she wants everybody to do so sorry for just grow up major stays quiet and let shawn rant and we can hear much of his motivation and his vindictive words she's mentioning that not one to be alive before that one time like within five minutes on dollars oh my goodness she should have been taken back or put some institution a long time ago something special they think is special they almost need a special city for all retards out there collecting that [ __ ] check if they're unable to go and get a work job and collect their 700 some dollar check so we need to get them out there because good thing i'm going to jail because i'm probably about ready to stay you know people get uncapable waste their lives i here we see the first indicator of one of sean's biggest core beliefs he would later claim in a letter that government assistance took his victims minds we'll dive deeper into this fixation later here's where things take a completely unexpected twist despite his reluctance to reveal where elizabeth is sean suddenly spills the beans about another girl entirely will you take me there where she is or there's another girl martha is a girl but a nut she's alive right here on my forehead all right what happened to her hey are you okay what happened is she gone she's been gone okay is anybody i mean has she been buried or she or did you just leave her somewhere is she missing okay by is she in a house what is she in she's in the woods okay how long has she been there how long june okay and she's the one that scratched you like that all right what's her name candace candace cookie cunningham have the fun girls okay why'd you put her in the woods because you were hurt were you afraid is that why you put her in the woods i told her i was gonna lay your ass down in the woods if you lied to me again candace cunningham lived in a vacant home with sean for a while her mother didn't worry when her daughter went silent for a few months as the girl had told her mother she was planning to move from mansfield to north carolina soon and wouldn't be available much one thing she did share with her mom though was that she had met the perfect guy and was excited at the prospect of getting married the next time she heard news about her daughter was when the police knocked on her door following sean's confession candace had never been reported missing her loved ones have described the young woman as a loving and determined person who unfortunately got caught up in the wrong crowd and made some bad choices she had two kids but both were taken away in 2009 by children's services possibly due to her drug use her family had hope that things would change for the better when candace moved to mansfield for a fresh start she made some friends who remember that the four foot nine inch 100 pound girl had a loud personality and would always help neighbors out and make them laugh despite her own struggles when candace and sean got together these friends noticed that they were inseparable but unfortunately volatile although the exact status of their relationship was a mystery to friends candace had her facebook account set to married on christmas day of 2015 a few short months after sharing a photo of sean and saying when he asked her to marry him she replied i told you that i was going to be there to the end the interrogator asks where the murder took place about the 20th why after that in order to get down the street okay she didn't get down the street took her ass out accident it's strange how sean says that he had already threatened candace of what he would do but then makes it out to be an accident he then starts crying but it's difficult to discern what he's talking about or if it even relates to candace [Applause] me you should be okay sean describes the location where he put the body and then the detective begins establishing what exactly sean did to candace okay when you said it was an accident you guys got into it and then how did how did you do it like she kept attacking me okay i told her he keep trying to hit me i'm going to just choke out once so i did i stopped right and then when i stopped you know i thought she was going to feel like that was before she went okay she was like trying to fight like so i stopped her right see if she'll calm down if i stop she didn't she still attacked me right yeah she woke up though went crazy again time had enough right she's she would try to commit because she has a bad record of hers you'll notice that no matter how many people sean hurts he can always somehow find a way to believe they're the one who wasn't stable he frames his crimes by saying how someone provoked him and caused him to respond the way he did something he never seems to think deeply about is why he's the common denominator in all these tragedies night time or during the day yeah three o'clock in the morning i hit in the face with baggage back oh i understand yeah i did she in the face with a bag of tobacco yeah okay go to sleep would you do that leave me alone to write a cigarette sean actually agreed to demonstrate on video his method of strangulation which would be easier for you to kind of show it or to have like a [Music] like a stuffed animal doll teddy bear thing to however you had that i can go grab one from these guys or something i was thinking i'd demonstrate on you that's what you want to do look at that big smile candace cunningham right can this was jesus i tried to keep her calm down a lot i didn't really mean to i followed her for like three days was mainly face to face you know just like and i wouldn't have much pressure i i didn't even tie her up at all okay until i wrapped her up in the blanket i kept her around for three days trying to get her and we even would walk around town every night after our big fights and then we go to bed at third night and it's almost like she just keeps adding it on okay and then she woke you up in the night and when she snatched smashing the face with that tobacco bag then what happened and then it's like oh my god okay so these past three days i mean you you just want me to finish you you know [Music] i grabbed her and that's when i choked her she passed out grabbed her from behind and passed out i mean i was irritable i had enough i just finished her candace was probably more of an anger to tyrell all over her life so i just tortured her probably about three days the same way that you torture her i was beyond that what were you doing i just really didn't torture for three days because we were getting our arguments right a little choking things and then we'd go walk around town right you know i mean yeah she could have easily just went and like called help or anything anytime so but we end up going back to the house still and then she still wants to start arguing and stuff and like she won i mean what am i supposed to do people who actually want to die and they keep you know i mean like every day had handfuls of pills something more here like i mean candace cunningham is that you it's just another night it's crazy i mean should not be out in society fighting but fighting all this stuff in court for this reason because some of these cases dropped maybe not but still something because you're unable to work i really need to see something so you feel like i'm going to paraphrase so correct me if i say something wrong okay you feel like they're a burden to society they're doing nothing they're handicapped you know i mean unless there's a medical reason okay so just to cop out and say uh i can't you know i can't deal with the customers she sliced her belly during the argument that you had with her how deep was the slice it bled a little bit okay did candice do that or did you candice did you be a witness don't matter but i mean there's so many people that hurt candace talking about just wishing she had died tired of she's had she throws out a card out oh feel sorry for me shaun has asked if he felt relieved after killing candace on september 13th sean led investigators to candace's body this is the audio of that trip because we have cadaver dogs if i need to have one of the dogs get us over there to make it easier we can do that if you don't know her i mean should it be too hard to figure out when we get there police say candace was dumped in the woods in june of 2016. she and sean had been seeing each other for about seven months before her death and then when the incident happened where she died you kept her in there overnight and then the next day you took her to the brush and then a couple days later is when you started the fire what did you cover up with i like it since it was dark then i i took the blanket just in case like dna and stuff you know i was like well that night you kept her in the house yeah it was about four in the morning about three in the morning right okay so you kept her in the house overnight and then the next day did you go out and scope out where you were going to put her you just took her back there just took her back there about what time was it we took her back there once he got dark okay about 10. about 10 at night okay so the incident happened on the 16th and then on the 17th you take her back and you're going to show us where and then i can cross the creek and up straight up the hill about between 10 to 15 feet there's a big shrug brought in a blanket to get her here and then he was afraid there was going to be dna on the blanket so he brought the blanket back put it in the house and then a couple days later he torched the house one of our people yeah yes i walked backwards and kind of walked back there backwards so you didn't fall down that embankment or anything matter of fact i did yeah i was going to say it was kind of hard just to walk kind of just empty-handed yeah i'm just amazed that you were able to go down that steep embankment with with somebody in tow yeah she was pretty alive but yeah seems like though [Music] back in the interrogation room the detective attempts to transition sean's confession about candace into asking who else they can go and find sean replies with a morbid question how many before objections how many what how many people before i get a leak detected let's not worry about any of that who else well i already mentioned another one what are you thinking of the house no the house one where i came from yeah there's somebody in there who is it is it elizabeth where is she in there in the closet which closet if they're upstairs major has managed to slowly get her foot in the door through kindness repeated emphasis on honesty and remaining neutral and non-judgmental one by one sean's secrets are spilled as a result of her patience yet she remains calm and collected not betraying any emotion as she continues her calculated questions okay that's it okay all right sean said okay how did you do it sean she wanted more she didn't at first sean says he and elizabeth played a game of yahtzee at her apartment before heading to his place for barbecue chicken back home okay she calls me later that's what i was doing it's like 11 o'clock at night nothing maybe it's ten o'clock right yeah if you ask if i want to play some yachts you some more all right that's fine [Applause] she started down away and i'm not going to marry her and i don't see anyone else marrying her she's going to be miserable or alive here we see sean's habit of judging the worth of other people's lives rearing its head again elizabeth didn't have a job lived alone and had been going through a particularly rough time just before her death because she was forced to give up her cat after proving unable to take proper care of it there seems to be a trend in sean's victims he often selects people who were more isolated from friends and family or mentally troubled people who wouldn't immediately be reported missing and people who were looking for someone a friend to talk to sean's just told detective major about two people he murdered and now she goes to get him snacks she's picked up on exactly who shawn is someone who attacks when he feels challenged or things don't go his way she'll stay on his good side to the point where he will continuously request to speak with her this loyalty and cooperation he affords detective major may seem like a killer who just wants to keep talking about himself but it's a stark contrast to how he treated the initial interrogator in these clips it seems that sean is griping about presumably the first guy's attitude do you feel better that you've talked to me yeah i appreciate you coming in here not him we weren't going to get nowhere well sometimes it's personalities or if he already knows something and you know you don't want to say it but um but he's lying to me too so i you know i don't know what was said because i wasn't in here but right because he's a straightforward guy lack of information the other guy's temper was being a little carried away patient who's in this patient you'll recall that the first interrogator was relatively respectful of sean during their conversation and only really pointed out his clear deception or feigned ignorance that what he'd done was wrong a few times such as when he kept offering alternatives for where elizabeth might be we've still got the issue with elizabeth so many issues a little bit you said you helped her find peace you set her free that's what she said yeah how'd you help her sort of quit listening to everybody in confusions we always have opinions everyone might need to get away you're right where just talk about going anywhere no some family in florida she ain't got no way to get down to florida i think she's still probably around here sean's offended reaction which made him shut down completely to this first interrogator shows us just how important control is to him in the clips that follow we'll see how major stays on sean's good side and garners confession after confession out of an initially uncooperative suspect first he finishes the story of what happened with elizabeth she came over about 11. you brought over the galaxy you would play galaxy 1 o'clock at night so you guys played the at sea and then that happened she couldn't sleep she called me okay after elizabeth's call the duo met at the ymca and walked back to his place i was just showing her around that she wanted she insisted to look around right okay it's like she i showed her upstairs and she just kind of like you know trying to put moves on me which was weird because on top of terror i didn't really feel that i mean yeah yeah did you end up having this with her no i did not okay didn't do nothing with her at all so when it came to the point that let's troll you know her shirt did end up yeah did you choke her from the front or choke her from behind well it just happened not until charges reached up and just choked her right last year was you sure that's what you want and i mean because she thought about like killing herself so i mean i do that his jokes a lot of times like you know friends like guy friends whatever yeah i mean they start talking about killing herself well we waited on you know joke around whatever you know but now as to the point it's like okay let's see exactly how much they really do want to adapt you know what i mean something for a little female right yeah she fought it like something that's not what you want and then she like just started blowing up like she took it out of proportion like i was just joking because of the wake up strangle okay strangle like you know i mean she got all serious shawn has said that while he strangled elizabeth she was saying forgive him lord for he don't know what he does there was mean she was just like moving around and stuff like that they're on the bed and like so did you strangle her again is that how she died or is there another way that's the way once again sean was more than happy to demonstrate his method of strangulation on video okay this is detective major we have detective evans in the room sean great in the room it's september 15 2016. time 1704. sean's going to demonstrate the way he uses and strangulation and cases that we have been discussing elizabeth right it's kind of shocking right i was just joking we were just joking like how she wished she kind of would die you know man i was like so so i'll help you out just feel like this you know i mean like actually forwarding that right and she kind of just like whacked my hands and i started flipping out and stuff like that to the point where i had to just like grab her and i just would lean forward and just press you know i mean okay all right that explains that once you've fall down you just gotta go down with her [Music] and even after she stopped breathing i held on until she messed her pants pretty much okay you know i mean i didn't release okay [Music] sean says that everything just happened so fast that he had only met her just a few days before so in summary his explanation for this murder essentially boils down to elizabeth had supposedly talked about wanting to die he wanted to test how much this was true he started strangling her but once she fought back he tried to give her a hug and tell her she does want to live but at that point she told him to get off because he had just tried to hurt her he says quote she just kept going on and on and it's like jesus save me and it's like you're not saved my compassion wanted to just free her from this world sean says at that point it was like way too late and so he finished strangling her i'm like elizabeth was more different because i played around with her she got scared and just jumped the gun the best i thought we were better than that i'll burn closet through a bunch of clothes and it falls up and shut it i've just been killing a lot of flies open the window letting the flies house it's crazy surprises don't stink because it does yeah it sucks and the smell soaking into everything else though clothes and things i guess are there any other girls in the house right now yeah there's one down in the basement down the basement where's what's she in she's just she's just down in the basement yeah tell me about it she just led me on to the point of there was no stopping and it really irritated me perhaps sean has just mentally given up at this point he knows they're going to search the abandoned home and so he just comes clean about yet another victim with no resistance major is caught off guard by the sudden and easy admission but she will now start learning more about another unfortunate woman who sadly didn't make it away from sean with her life what's her name stacy stacy what's her last name sean can't even recall the full name of the woman he killed how did you meet her okay when did that happen here's september today's the 13th tuesday the 13th so you've had since sunday the 11th what day do you think this happened with stacy probably thursday probably thursday you heard right less than a week earlier sean had taken yet another victim's life with so little time between these recent violent attacks who knows how many more women could have fallen prey to shawn had jane not gotten help in time the stacy shawn is referring to as 43 year old stacy stanley sometimes known as stacy hicks she'd been battling to stay off heroin for six months leading up to her disappearance one day she happened to get into some car trouble and was grateful when someone appearing to be a good samaritan showed up to lend a helping hand this was september 8th what'd she look like sweet lady stacy had driven from her town to ashland for some shopping that day she got her nails done at her favorite place it was shaping up to be a great night but unfortunately stacy's parade was about to be rained on by a flat tire and well actual rain having to pull over alone in the dark was less than ideal for the woman but after calling her son who said he would send a family friend over to help she stopped at a bp gas station and waited how did the conversation go that she ends up coming back to your place did you just walk up to her start talking well it was raining i had an umbrella i was going to give her my um and then keep walking because she's standing outside and then she hit a flat tire in her car let me give you a hand well i have someone coming okay [Music] it's only one man job i went ahead and walked down the circle okay and back and she was still there waiting but then i went back up there in about 10 minutes someone showed up because of a mix-up there was a delay in stacy's assistance arriving but she told her son that a different nice gentleman was trying to help her out when stacy's family acquaintance arrived as requested he was surprised to find the woman already accompanied by sean who ended up doing most of the work changing the tire once he was lent the tools when the job was done stacy and sean went inside the store and the family friend took his leave observing that stacey seemed comfortable around this stranger it was around 10 40 pm when the clerk noticed the pair enter and stacy took a phone call where she told her son she was fine and would be heading home she proceeded to buy shawn a cup of coffee to thank him in what the clerk described as a chipper good mood they then moved off doing that evening so we started hanging out she came in and everything was fine i mean we ended up kissing okay just kind of just happened i don't know okay it just went all bad in sean's interviews there's tons of empty silence but major never jumps in to fill that uncomfortable gap she simply sits back and lets shawn add more and more details to his accounts we can see at this point that sean must have had an undeniable charisma to him one girl who knew him as a teenager has explained he was charming he was always smiling and he had those big blue eyes all the girls liked sean however his mother has interestingly clarified yes he's good looking but the devil is good-looking too he ain't no red horns and all that stuff you find out he's charming and of course that can charm the pants off anybody stacy may have been enamored to spend time with the kind man who had just gone out of his way to do a good deed for her but unfortunately she was about to be introduced to his dark side while she was there did you decide you're going you were gonna you were gonna kill her at what point i didn't yeah i didn't know it wasn't planned but um the point is when she just gave me these flashbacks to all these other women and just that's probably broken my heart to really break it down okay flashbacks like my mom really i mean i hate to blame people but i know someone has to be blamed i mean does your i'm taking my blame i know you are shawn's issues with his mother are a whole other rabbit hole that we will dig into later on but for now he'll offer more explanation on why he felt stacy had to lose her life started making her own everything was fine right then she started playing all this like she didn't want to go farther than that yeah and that's what i'm called around sugar daddies i said quit but if i lost a dog 40 bucks maybe you'd do something you know yeah yeah no matter what it is it's gonna get bad there's probably just shawn again transitions straight into how she reminded him of his mother my mom she used to good at bartenders she brings home guys all the time i keep him in a jaw four years old in the end it seemed to be a multitude of strange factors that made sean snap that that she had day daddies i called like a no way i brought that up and she was straight up lie to me just like playing off like she's all innocent i just see her i just see how she just played this dude about changing her tire and he'll get out of me sometime and all this you know i mean because she was waiting on this guy to come and change tire which i want to change the tire with his tool stuff while she was talking to him i mean whatever you know i'm used to that type of life so did you feel like she had already sealed her fate when you watched her be a minifigure to that man no one she lied to me about when you caught her shirt when you called her out on it yeah so [Music] and she just took defense already like hey he's just a friend see just like everyone else all the other women they they do not know that the more honest they are to me the better we get along i mean no matter what situation just be honest it's really not clear why shawn would assume this man was her sugar daddy in the first place all right did you have with her yeah all right see at first i know like been around and then she wanted to play that innocent thing so i just kind of just snapped on her they'll play all that songs but she'd come home with me at 11 o'clock don't even know me i mean kind of like almost sent from god but it could be something the devil i don't know someone gave up on her in the same way he had with jane sean videotaped his assault of stacy on his cell phone after he killed her he wrapped her up dragged her body to the basement and covered it with trash yes this was the same property where jane was rescued and elizabeth's body was hidden so in reality when officers went to search they were faced with a terribly gruesome and tragic scene everything was as sean described with stacy's decomposing body being discovered on the cold concrete floor buried in debris and upstairs a closet covered in duct tape with a deplorable smell emanating from within held elizabeth's body under a pile of clothing along with the stun gun that's been mentioned investigators found brass knuckles that they believe could have been used on the victims the following clip is shawn's visual demonstration of how he killed stacy they died and she put her tongue out of her mouth i don't know just just the pressure that makes people's tongue stick out and then after they die it just makes them still her tongue stays out of her mouth all right did she try to fight you when you were strangling her tell me about that she even she amazed me too she missed you well that's what happened yeah she makes me right i'm just snapped as well as the other thing it's like when you had sex with her did she want to or did you have to make her no i didn't have sex with her after that i made her actually stacy was reported missing on september 10th after not hearing from the woman following her flat tire incident her family grew extremely worried the next day her car was found abandoned shawn has admitted to driving the vehicle after killing her and also taking 43 dollars from her purse in an odd but not surprising addition shawn apparently quipped in one interview that stacey told on herself about getting an assistance check each month given sean's track record we already know that this is something that really sets him off how long did you keep stacy before she was about an hour just about an hour time yeah she put out acted up you didn't have a choice do you really let me think about it did you have did you really have a choice whether it's a killer or or not rationally looking back at it do you have a choice oh she knew where you were meaning she knew and you had already made her give you like forced that on her so is that what you're meaning well yeah we already bumped heads i was gonna let her go until she amazed me she was freaking clear to go because she told me she had a grandchild you know everything now here's where things take a turn shawn will slip up a bit when talking about how many total victims there are he says four four four one four women okay i'm missing one then so we've got candace elizabeth stacy and who else another candace no stacy okay so i'm wrong actually i'm really thought down you know what i mean i was wrong saying four i just thought that was like four maybe it's like because i haven't kept track or anything maybe i was thinking about victim okay sean may have played it off but the truth is his list of victims isn't over quite yet and at this point major really has no way of knowing just how deep the iceberg is just when it seems like he's finally come clean he tacks on another crime to his quickly growing history major will continue to see what other secrets she can get from sean but first he reveals more details about the psychology of his attack on jane where are you going to do the same thing no no what's the difference because you allow people because she helps people know that all people yeah that's told not to just so many things reasons not to okay for her even though she was mission she wanted to die before then she even mentioned that she wanted to die then because of abuse i was putting her in sean's reasoning for why he wouldn't kill jane is just another example of his belief that he is essentially someone who doles out justice or so-called mercy to those he sees as lost causes he seems to feel he has the right to judge people's morality and worthiness to life that being said with how close together his crimes with elizabeth stacy and jane were it's also very possible that sean was on a spree and that jane wouldn't have made it much longer before his inevitable snap he continues to tell far-fetched stories about instances where he thought jane was showing her lustful desires what could you tell her playing tennis she was fantastic you could tell she usually was so frustrated she couldn't even play tennis she wanted this she wanted to go back to the apartment there's a couple instincts the first one we're playing with this neighborhood kid and he'd have a hard time catching them well i was we had peaches on some juggle and it was never got gooey and they're already splitting but he had sticky fingers i'm like well go grab a peach and that way you might be able to catch the football get sticky fingers she says sticky fingers peaches no nothing today i can't remember these words because she's talking about sticky fingers yeah sticky point i mean she said i don't know sean is exhibiting many patterns of thinking common with offenders he assumes he knows what jane was thinking and feeling on the inside and is essentially saying i could tell she wanted me to do it he blames what he did to her on her supposed provocative comments even though he can't even remember what he thinks jane said all this serves to once again minimize his crime by suggesting she wanted it to happen all along she worked away because the same thing was complaining about memory the way she was hitting that i couldn't get under to bring it up kept hitting it down like that i said we had a we had a good run i just couldn't get it up she looks at me and smile like oh he couldn't get it up you know i mean i was like yeah well you know other times at the table you know people would save you stuff like that and she would catch right on you know the warpness of it yeah keep in mind that jane was already in her mid-30s when she met sean assuming sean's stories have any truth to them here it's still obvious that a mature woman like jane regardless of her religion or innocence would be able to understand adult humor shawn is really grasping at straws to provide any proof that she ever desire to take things further with him yeah sean also talks about wanting to get jane pregnant we talked about abortion and stuff i was pretty sure you know she said she didn't get an abortion no she's definitely against that all right probably would get afraid she must be able to have something to focus on instead of everybody else's business but now i kind of think well she doesn't because of her child she should resent probably dad she would know how to be a parent great apartment is full of bible verses what is she hiding from she's hiding from something at one point the interrogator tries to give jane some props for having the bravery and wits to escape and sean immediately interrupts to take responsibility for this accomplishment as well she had some courage there didn't she i told her to told her you better find a way out of here i might kill you did you mean it no no i just was trying to boost her to go to like just i don't know what i was doing a prosecutor would later give his opinion on why shawn didn't kill jane saying her lack of struggle made him stop the evidence will show that elizabeth screamed and died stacy maced him and died jane doe accepted her fate made no struggle and was allowed to live moving on to september 15th major met sean once again to talk she asks if there's anything else that he's thought about and needs to get off his chest sean says he needs to think and get the ear right [Music] i can't place the time maybe it's like 2005. it's a cold case they've already found her okay where did that happen it's only about four minutes into this tape and sean has already admitted his involvement in an unsolved decade-old cold case with almost no prompting at all the interrogator's ability to build trust with sean has played a big part in opening the floodgates on a once tight-lipped suspect shawn is never quite certain what this first victim's name was but he believed it was dana this woman's skeletal remains were found in a wooded area of marion county in 2007 which was probably about a year after she'd actually died she'd remained an unidentified jane doe until shawn's confession he later explained that he was hesitant to reveal this particular murder was because he knew expanding the time frame of his crimes by this big of a margin would make people wonder if there were tons of other victims during those gap years in 2019 authorities would finally be able to use dna from the victim's family members along with facial reconstruction analysis and isotope testing to identify her and it turns out that her name was indeed dana nicole lowry who was only 23 at the time of her death remember shawn's story way back about his mother wishing ill will upon a magazine saleswoman here's where things come full circle tell me what happened well it's kind of weird how it happened anyway i feel like i had to do something okay get out of control this lady's selling magazines are supposedly for college we never really did come through order pushing around collect the money those are fake quarters and my mom paid her and she's just waiting on money and lying so that's all she complains about well i ran i found her okay i found her and she tried to sell me magazines as well so as i knew it was her it's fascinating to discover that sean referenced this woman earlier on without betraying any emotion of what the true ending to her tale was in 2006 dana had been reported missing after she abruptly stopped making phone calls to her two young daughters back in louisiana while on the road selling her magazines her parents were already deceased at this time and so the father of their girls says he doesn't know who reported her missing he himself had just assumed she moved on with her life as he says that's just the kind of person she was authorities had no leads until this very moment so i took her with me to my grandparents tell us where i was living i was remodeling at my grandparents house started arguing with her like did khan you're just gonna think you know me here take my money around no i said yeah you are because you just you did my mom's too and she pretty much can like give you over to god she knew god's going to take care of you i know i'm not god i don't know man i know that it's interesting that sean frames this murder as a sort of revenge against dana for what he believed was a scam however earlier you'll recall that he admonished his mother for hoping that the saleswoman would get what was coming to her sean says it was almost like it was meant to be when he found dana again just a few months after she had initially sold to his mom and how did you get her from there to your grandparents house to ask her what she was doing [Music] i wanted to take a break take a drive with me well actually to go get the money that's why okay i asked her what she was doing before that she was uh ready to call it a day so i just asked her she wanted to hang out go out to where i was staying and get money okay which i lied you know my attention she's already irritated me yeah someone that i suppose we care about well first we sat in the kitchen down the barn stools and just sit there for a minute and i felt i felt her [ __ ] and i was just feeling raged okay so i said come on back here show you my ball cards she did i have all kinds of ball cards used to like baseball cards collection yeah all sports oh okay yeah and there she comes i don't need so that's when i frightened her so you're gonna rip me off like you did my mom what did she say she said who's your mom i said oh so you do it a lot to people yeah she tried to get past me and i just came through [Music] walked her back a little bit to the living room because everything was all my stuff was in the bedroom i didn't have nothing in the other rooms just when i choked her out right here i believe her nose was bleeding there was some blood it could have been from her lip right here she peed your pants how did uh how did she die i'm strained what were you no i didn't i strangled her first dragged her down to the basement she passed out i panicked i ran upstairs i grabbed the knife i she's in your bedroom and you are face to face she tries to get her on the bedroom tell us what happens from there that's that girl i turn her around she comes towards me i knock her hands around knocked her whole body around and just grabbed her like she just was meant to be choked up okay i mean it felt right in my hands okay all right her back laid down and i actually laid down with her was laying down i'm just side by side and it's that upstairs or downstairs at what point did you stab her in the neck was she still alive then or not alive she woke up she woke up from the strangular stairs she woke up downstairs so when you took her downstairs did you take her down thinking she was dead no no because i i knew before that was just she that was just a little temporary like a pass out okay you're dealing with friends and playing around pass out games so you went downstairs and then what happened she woke up yeah i panicked i didn't know what to do i ran upstairs and grabbed a knife kitchen you know that's what the first thing i did when i went downstairs stabbed her in my neck i didn't know what to do and you said the knife was a serrated knife or a straight blade knife i believe it was a straight knife it's like just like a other the knife you cut logins with okay all right the time is 5 12 or 17 12 hours date september 15th detective major detective evans and sean great at the ashland county sheriff's office sean goes on to describe how he put dana's body in his trunk dumped it and then burned the blankets she'd been wrapped in were soft they were drenched earlier in the neck however before he took her body out of the house shawn actually had company over he said uh [Music] dana taken to the basement in the afternoon then he had a bonfire at his house that evening slash night and she was still in the basement so he put a couch in front of the door so in case someone had a little like this or something they wouldn't go into the house and then stumble across her in the basement major asks shawn to tell her details that nobody else would know so she can confirm he was really the one who killed dana i did go back after a few months and i burned the fire i caught her on fire just burned a little evidence just in case there was i've been paranoid just being like uh beating myself up all times i don't know what to do now having four murdered confessions in her lap major takes some time to look into sean's headspace it's not every day you get the chance to sit down with a serial killer and it's clear she wants to learn as much about his psyche as she can i know you have a conscience and i know the things that bother you i can i can see that you can see i can see that there yeah i think it's just other people's awareness kind of i just gathered i just i try to justify things in weird ways where turn weird things and justify and make it look i don't know i'm really warped i think though damaged sean even gives a bit of insight into why he confessed a dana's case even though he may not have otherwise been linked to it he says it was the one eating him up inside is there another one i don't know about no there's four notice how sean hesitated there i mean i'm not in denial i believe the denialness is out of my system as you can probably guess at this point he's still holding back the full truth but at this point major doesn't have much else to go off she briefly circles back to elizabeth's case and here's where things get incredibly disturbing apparently when investigators searched the house to find elizabeth and stacy's bodies they found something else too they discovered what was described as a pole covered in a sock and wrapped in condoms here major asked sean if these were used on elizabeth at all there might be someone there okay i think it was mainly just to try to open her mouth a little bit try to prop her mouth [Music] sean's explanation only gets more horrifying from there it's trying to blodge her mouth a little bit see i was kind of curious excuse so stiff all of a sudden she stiff so fast putting that in her mouth yeah i was just trying to like open her mouth a little bit um [Music] to be able to have more access for flies than either i wonder i've been trying to get rid of the body like the smell so i was trying to just like lodge her open a little bit when officers opened the closet where elizabeth was they were indeed met with fly larvae and maggots on the door two days pass and on september 17th major is back once again with sean this time accompanied by a male sergeant at this point sean has now gained legal representation for the cases that occurred in ashland so the interrogator has to be careful not to ask questions pertaining to those matters which is no big issue as major's real goal here is to snuff out any remaining victims that sean is neglecting to reveal she first emphasizes that she understands why he didn't tell her everything at once and indicates it's okay if his information comes forward in layers the reason i have sergeant martin here is because he's been dealing with something for a long time that that he's got a case file on and there were just some parallels and do you know what i'm talking about i'm not exactly sure okay okay uh sean is good at if he doesn't know something he'll say i don't know and if he if he uh needs clarification he asks for it um so really important for us to make sure that somebody's not suggestible where if i say something you just adopt it as true so sometimes when we've talked you'll say you don't know something because you don't know or you'll correct me or or change but you know you'll fix it there's a case from out in the county uh meaning that we found a girl and we're trying to see if you'll be honest if that's something you have something to do with we're asking for that a lot of time has been put into it and we don't know rebecca lacy yes sir i had problems with her once i met her she got violent with me i just why i has been like angry bitter by her it's interesting how readily sean gives himself up here this is the final victim he will confess to although there's no way of knowing if she is really the last one he was hiding unsurprisingly rebecca follows the trend of sean's earlier victims rebecca candas are the same same same type of people because of the drug abuse stabbing heartbeat where did you meet rebecca the first time that's the real deal just throughout tommy mansfield 20 that's how i met her oh as a prostitute okay then she just started calling me here and there sometimes you just come over hang out rebecca's family has given some insight into what her life was like before it was cut short rebecca had her first child at the age of 16 and never got to finish high school she was spunky and a daddy's girl unfortunately a boyfriend introduced the young woman to hard drugs at some point including cocaine according to her father quote becky was a drug addict and she wasn't afraid to tell you becky was a prostitute too shawn was a prostitute too a family friend added they work the same corner her dad says she would call him from abandoned buildings and ask for food sometimes requesting a little extra if shawn was with her he says he tried to help rebecca but that she didn't really want any try to rob me rebecca tried to rob you yeah okay and tell me what happened can you bring a chair up so he's not happy to talk so well she was number two yeah that goes number two okay i'm sorry i'm trying to get this cuff off here we go is that better yeah all right tell us uh she seemed like a good person and everything i mean we've met several times okay as a friend where did you meet her dude are you encouraged it was just shortly after my best friend just passed away too okay it's believed that sean killed rebecca sometime between january and early february of 2015. it's pretty much self-defense on that one good just she brought me i just snapped like she just knew that i don't know okay when you say she robbed you where did that happen where did where did it happen i have been in eclectic tempo i had become partners with my best friend in the store come over and i went to the bathroom right i had some money in my wallet that's the first thing i did is just check my wallet and it was gone so i was in front of her she wanted to leave snatched her up we fought and i ended up jumping out so she slept reached in her pocket got her money sources say sean has revealed that the amount rebecca allegedly stole from him was four grabbed the dollars and stuff took the batteries out she had two phones on her she woke up i didn't know what to do i was just waiting for her to wake up she woke about first thing she did you know she panicked i tried to calm her down tried to get up just leave that that state of mind thousand nothing left major asks for some clarification on these points that led up to rebecca's death and sean seems excited to tell it even adding sound effects to his story you said you did something and she must she must have passed out from it and then at first yeah and she tried to call on one i read the phone that's after we wrestle and stuff she just crawled in the ball and i don't know what she was doing she found the phone held up you wanted to steal from me and all that you know me i just was like oh oh sean details his internal struggle here you have the struggle of if i let her live she's gonna say something and i'm gonna get eight years before i thought about doing just doing eight years or if i killed her then i could do life but maybe nobody would know if i can get rid of her is that is that how your your mind wanted so when you when she died what exactly were you doing to her when she died how did how did you do it this time she was in her belly and i've already lost it disarming under her neck and then i reached back to her grabbed one of her legs and just used that electricity even the way that shawn disposed of rebecca's body is disturbing and it's a wonder that nobody caught him in the act shawn kept her body downstairs in the eclectic tempo business for a couple days before he got a car to transport her away the old plastic golf cart stopped carrying back it's barely fetched fit in there and take that just in case it propped open for the daylight the lawyer's office going on the secretaries and i pushed her out and i remember it was snow like that it was when he drove out a ways and found a secluded spot sean drug her body out by a tree and left he says as he pulled away a cop got behind him and he thought he'd be seen however this was unfortunately not the case yeah i probably shouldn't i don't know if i should get charged for it or not so i don't know she kept pushing me like she just i don't know who people who don't know she's pushing you but 31 year old rebecca lacy's body was discovered in march of 2015 about a month after she'd been reported missing unlike some of shawn's other victims rebecca's family had searched extensively for her employing the help of police to scour more than 60 abandoned houses in the area she frequents but ultimately it would be an unsuspecting worker who stumbled upon her remains while checking gas wells but at that time nobody feared a killer on the loose the county coroner ruled her death an overdose and reportedly said there was no evidence of traumatic injuries and here's where things get even more surprising rebecca's father has stated that he does not believe sean is guilty he thinks her death is tied to her addiction explaining that she stole drugs from a dealer and he theorizes that she was killed in retaliation by the dealer injecting her with drugs a family friend clarified that she'd already been telling people that she feared for her life speaking on sean rebecca's father said i thought he was an okay guy adding that sean was always polite the serial killer ain't the same sean that i know he insisted this information was reported as of 2019 but i would be intrigued to know where the man stands on this issue today and so with five murders along with jane doe's abduction and assault the interrogators had finally got everything out of sean or at least what he was willing to tell which was more than enough there isn't there is no one else still honestly um i could take a lie detector test even well that's the first time you've offered to take a lie detector but okay but this this time i may have to because there is no one else seriously how do you go from dana to how many years later and not have any because same you know regret a lot of regret how long before dana did you have you said you had dark thoughts probably about 10 years i would have loved been able to do a lot but i know i wouldn't be able to get away with it as well why because there's a relationship there were no random it wasn't random but while sean didn't confess to any more murders he would bring up someone he allegedly assaulted or as he puts it made an example out of except there is this one girl i made an example with i uh tris trista i can't remember her last name i didn't kill her or nothing i just i did her i did anyway abducted her i let her go where was that my man's film tell us about him because her personality too like i let her go i mean i let her go that was after rebecca was a stress thing after rebecca and i think that it was i was still pumped up with rebecca she just got lippy she got lippy with you yeah i just i'm just gonna take it i ain't gonna pay you she's like no you know you know so she's a prostitute yeah so you know me arguing like yeah you can't say no so i just went along with i did not hurt her at all it didn't smack her or anything you didn't hurt her you just yeah she just like she just submitted she didn't fight and then that's a lot of reason why she probably just left you know i mean i i even walked her back to where i picked her up and didn't pay her right here we see yet another example of a woman escaping sean with her life mainly because she submitted and did not struggle this pattern tells us a lot about sean's need for control and feeling powerful it's ironic how he faults women for being what he deems as promiscuous by coming home with him late at night but if they try to fight off his advances somehow he still thinks they're at fault sean says as he walked trista back she asked why me and he responded maybe a wake-up call for both of us we've covered all the early conversations sean and major had in september of 2016. by october sean was getting a bit more settled into his new situation and now that the truth is out and he's just personally requesting to speak with major at this point these last few clips give us a peek into his thought process as he accepts his fate first off he reveals that he started receiving a lot of mail but not the kind you might expect any more letters from girls [Music] wow and guys yeah like just i've gotten like 10 letters like not people you know or anything just randomly one person might know that's really kind of confusing for you too i mean it's not i think you said you you were gonna keep track of hate mail and then you find yourself a fan mail it's not what you maybe anticipated yeah sean says one of the letters asked him who his favorite serial killer was he says he's watched some movies about famous killers but was never inspired by them but rather thought those guys were messed up in the head ironic he does say if he had to pick he found the zodiac killer most interesting major asks if he's ever identified with one of the killers he saw on screen after thinking for a while sean says this they give up their life for like i don't know but really angry there you know and funny his heart broke i mean hopefully he has our yeah broken and he just was out to justify for revenge i mean to let out anger yeah sean goes on to say that he probably relates with the zodiac killer more because he was patient and had emotional control instead of just hunger presumably for violence the people would probably put their hands on me just because of what i've done just to feel close you know i mean like that they harm me they can always say i did this too great we want to kill it by women sean expresses that he hopes one day down the line he can ask the families of his victims to forgive him her son you know me honestly who's that stacy's son okay it's her sister that said i'm an animal you know me and that's good it's good to and to her i am an animal but she i hope what i need honestly nothing to do with nothing else i just sometime before this is all said and done i need to be able to ask them to forgive me so now i would like to just give up my life okay my whatever consequence for him to give me the sentence yeah i mean sean also begins to go back and forth on feeling like jail is the right place for him do you feel like if you are free today that it would happen again the way i was yeah okay there's a lot of times it could have been 100 people and intense fear that this is all that's left for him [Music] he shows moments of authenticity such as worrying about his son but often switches back into a lighthearted tone without taking too long to recover i just told him the frosted flakes or the fruit loops you won't see them again the fruit loops but in the final conversations between sean and law enforcement one thing we can see for sure is a resurgence of anger and violent thoughts geared towards the people around him you want to hurt him i don't know it don't playing games with matter it's just hard to handle i figure it wants to shift change you might work over because this is friday and that's when they might come into rush enemy [Music] hey no one's gonna rush in on you don't cover the camera no one's gonna do anything to you no that's not the thing you know what i want them to come in on me you want them to why because i won't focus on that one dude there might be five of them to get me with that one i won't get it meaning what i mean you want to hurt him i mean you want to kill him [Music] here he talks about someone he thinks was a snitch knock knocking out definitely knocked down just that one's through don't thought about putting this to the head right on the toilet and just stopping just because and so after a long series of interviews shawn awaited judgment on his crimes in court family members and medical professionals would share intriguing testimony that gives us a look at the strange reality of sean's convoluted upbringing first of all he had a very strained relationship with his mother she apparently got married at only 14 years old to a 21 year old man shawn's half-sister alleges the relationship didn't last because shawn's mother was an alcoholic and was physically abused by her husband shawn's mother then had an off and on marriage with sean's father who she met while working as a dancer at a bar they eventually divorced shawn's half-sister testified that their mother was young partied a lot and did not give the children a lot of attention nor have a connection with them in fact his half-sister says she herself essentially took on the responsibilities of being the mother of the house from ages 12 to 16. the family dynamic was unstable and dysfunctional and sean and his mother seemed engaged in an eternal battle over who was going to control who here are some of shawn's thoughts about his mother in his own when my words left me when i was a child i come home from school when she's gone but i don't blame her i don't i used to but why did she leave i'm sorry it's fine there's a time i needed some help i wasn't between jobs she didn't help me well this is a time that i if you're gonna help me you should help me because i'm just gonna forget you i just did i forgot her the forensic and clinical psychologist hired by the defense to evaluate sean dr fabian believed that he exhibited an attachment disorder and had an inability to connect properly with others sean's mother told him she herself never attached to anyone and dr fabian believes this certainly carried over to how she raised her son yeah whatever i give she should get too why well yeah she's the one who encourages me saying that things should happen to people or condemn people she's condemned the one lady fireman she's another no my mom's already she's been in our own prison our life okay dr fabian says sean had a love-hate split towards his mother sometimes desiring to be with her but also a rejection and hatred towards her what's your most strong pet peeve or things about the thing that bothers you about women when you're with them like what what do they do that would anger you the most i don't know i asked that because when you here's some of the words you've used about some of the women that you've talked about you adored bossy i don't know which somebody was being bossy to you maybe you can't i don't remember who it was but it depends on probably just a moment i could be thinking about my mom at the time and then it's all bad okay when's the last time you saw your mom years ago i just wanted her to invest in me once okay knowing the circumstances she doesn't even need three it'll it'll be it'll be a lifetime of knowing just what you're feeling and now talks about serial killing growing up as a kid things you don't talk about yeah you know you think that planted a seed yeah some type of bitterness and something like something i don't know i haven't figured it out yet it was something that just the family seemed to talk about a lot just and then like whose interest was it we'd always watch unsolved mysteries and all that growing up i don't know it's not it's not god just gotta let everybody know what's going on you're right sean you're right it's it's it's no excuse it's not an excuse it is what it is right no one's saying is saying an excuse this can't be minimized right it's not that it just explains where you're coming from and about what a message to what a message to people dr fabian's opinion is that shawn's rage toward his mother contributed to his criminal acts towards his later victims he pointed out how sean's need to control relates to never having control with his mother i really love my mom yeah there's a lot of hate there's it's not hate it's just a lot of forgiveness this is we've been through it we've forgiven each other a lot i mean she trained me i'll trade her you know yeah different ways small little right big picking wigs and it's just been like a boyfriend girlfriend hate it like but it's a mom and son hey it's the same thing it's like dude for prideful ways it's not in his genes that this is not a killer okay like my mom would tell me everything by her grandfather dad just passed around but like that's why she left kentucky that's so young yeah that she was so worried that i was gonna be some type of pervert you know meaning yeah there's things that you really shouldn't tell a child because she tells me so much about how warped her side of the family is and she's so afraid that i was going to be like that or alcoholic the jeans sean later told a psychologist that his mother was crazy someone who wanted to find the guy that was going to be a meal ticket and even proclaimed he was always afraid of the woman and had early fantasies of wanting to kill her being caught up in stuff stuff just destroyed her with greed she's almost mentally [ __ ] i think sad to say but she's his description of his mother is eerily congruent with how he described killing elizabeth as sean said his mom lived a life of misery and he wanted to take her out of that misery she came here that that says everything um and for her to tell police officer the detective that she spoke to that he's my son and i love him um she said it it wasn't she didn't separate herself from you she says my son so as a mom i mean and i don't want to build her i don't want to build her up i know what your childhood is like you told me i i know the love me i i know that we have to not talk about the facts and just move from here on to ask her to forgive me you know what i've done you know she raised me i told her you need to raise me better than this i'm not trying to blame her there's some things in there there's some hate anger and people are going to look at it and think that it's related it's really not shawn was held back in school twice apparently suffering from learning disabilities and dyslexia he was a very good baseball player and his hobby may have brought him joy and purpose for a short period but at 14 he retired forever after a large tumor was found in his arm and part of his hip was removed to replace a portion of his arm bone sean was popular with girls as a teenager due to his charm and inviting smile however once he lured a young woman to let her guard down and get close to him his true personality would come out at 18 sean was arrested for grabbing a girlfriend by the throat a few years go by and shawn now dating a pregnant 17 year old breaks into her house and chokes her and this was not the end of his reign of terror in this girl's life because eight months later he once again broke in decided to hide under her couch all night with a knife and waited silently for her return he then reportedly assaulted the woman and her sister telling them that they better hope nobody knocks on the door because if they did there would not be anyone there to answer it one five-year girlfriend says that shawn was mentally abusive and claims that in 2010 sean assaulted her repeatedly including multiple blows to the face and being grabbed by the throat when she convinced shawn to let her go to the er she told staff she'd fallen but when left alone with a nurse she revealed what had really happened sean took off running four days later the girlfriend called police and told them she believed shawn was hiding inside of her couch when officers came to inspect they were shocked to discover she was right he went on to have three children with three different women he allegedly threatened his ex-wife if i can't see my daughter no one will ultimately it seems there were many factors that led to sean's downward spiral when it comes to nature versus nurture it's apparent that a combination of both led to the perfect storm that created a serial killer sean has been diagnosed with a long-term mild depressive condition a bipolar and related disorders adhd a language-based learning disorder a neurocognizance disorder and a personality disorder mixed and severe he was found to read and function academically somewhere around 10 or 11 years of age and dr fabian has stated he has a full scale iq of 83 which is in the below average to borderline range of intelligence dr fabian says that sean's neurocognizance disorder may be due to a traumatic brain injury sean had some early childhood concussions the psychologist compared sean's brain functioning to a three-wheeled car trying to drive on the road as we wrap up the story of one of the most intriguing serial killers in history i'd like to touch on a couple key elements that sean brought up time and time again during his interrogations he made many mentions of having dreams or visions that he thought were things messages supposed to foresee things i've had dreams of people i meet people like i had a dream of meeting david cooley before i even met him i had a lot of dreams about things becoming true names persons last names he tells a specific story about seeing a woman that reminded him of dana do you know what's weird though what i was driving around about six months later i mean this was a spook score story i mean i kind of got spooked i pulled up i'm like hey what are you doing it's like all night and look just like her right but like more beat up more darker like yeah she's a ghost you know i mean and you want to you need to ride or anything she's like no i don't want to get myself in the same situation i got myself into before now like what are you talking about it's like oh then you know i mean like yeah i don't know it was kind of scary he also had visions involving candace i've seen the vision of her she wasn't completely clear but i know and it was like i don't know i'd like to talk to it in a way like like it would flicker like is that you like talking to me candace and like flick her once or something yeah if it is and and it'll flicker and then like i lose my mind he makes many mentions of god a lot of these choice of women when it comes down to it they're free they've had a hard life yeah but we all have but that'll give me the right to do what i did i didn't mean to play god i know i'm not god you know i mean i just i just wish someone could have did the same thing to me you know i mean so too could ask god to forgive me do that now i can then i have to ask all the family which might be later on hopefully they'll find her forgive me that way they could grow at one point when he and major had to go outside because of an alarm going off he actually asks if she is a christian and then admonishes her for saying the phrase my word i'm not saying nothing bad about you saying my word yeah but isn't it saying my word the same as saying god damn i think it is and it's a habit because i hear it and then it i try not to say that and then that comes out and i shouldn't say it at all well said sean great it's the same thing like saying shoot [ __ ] saying you know you're totally right i was really caught off guard by how seriously he took this simple statement in light of the things he's done but the moment was very interesting to see play out it was also intriguing how sean indicated that he wanted the death penalty more than once i don't think i need to be represented i just want to just go for the death penalty and whatever you know me just plead guilty and be done move on you have a good team they're they're a good team i did kind of tell them i know it's only right then i take it to death penalty and finally perhaps the most prevailing sentiment that sean expressed during his interviews was his disdain for government assistance i didn't kill these women i might have just done away with their body but their mind was already dead and once they started accepting checks from the government the government killed them you know the government took their their stride away all their just in the way brain did so you feel like i'm going to paraphrase so correct me if i say something wrong okay you feel like they're a burden to society they're doing nothing they're handicapped you know i mean unless there's a medical reason okay so just to cop out and say oh can't you know i can't deal with the customers i mean they're all regrets i'd rather let everybody just live in this world and if they call hell then that's their own fault you want to call you know a taste of heaven and that's good you know what other what other thoughts have you had of doing things similar to what you've we've talked about well if you've had thoughts like these i really thought i was just i thought it was moral learning and being aware of what's out there never thought i'd come one what do you mean all the craziness people that are the people and aren't the idea sean would later write in a letter they were already dead just their bodies were flopping wherever it can flop but their minds were already dead the state took their minds once they started receiving their monthly checks because you know it's just something something about like once they start running their mouth and stuff i mean that kind of like that's i'm the tax collector you know i mean someone has to take uh someone else everybody needs paid their taxes on prostitutes you know you know pay your taxes definitely opportunities i pretty dangerous yeah i have to admit it it's not good all my life i have been this way we can speculate all day and night about why sean did what he did in the end here's how he seems to square it in his head what was it like what was it you wanted people to be real with herself probably i'll think about that question more though but that's the answer i i believe just how people would just be able to be ripped yourself sean great was ultimately convicted of murdering all five women in ohio he was sentenced to death in february of 2021 the ohio supreme court unanimously upheld his conviction and death sentence ruling that there were no errors in proceedings denying him a fair trial

Channel: EXPLORE WITH US

Views: 7,356,717

Keywords: documentary, criminal psychology, educational, law

Id: ymcNhAgO7Pw

Length: 199min 40sec (11980 seconds)

Published: Sun Nov 14 2021

Reddit Comments

[u/madtails01]

A couple of years ago I worked on a documentary series and one of our episodes was about him. I helped interview the cops involved an saw some of the crime scene photos. It was brutal.

[u/RetroPilky]

Asking 20 fucking questions, you know where it is so dispatch people and then ask questions. He’s right in the room with her, why are you making her talk so much?

[u/johnnyfortycoats]

Amazing that he body of Elizabeth Griffin was found in the same house that he was staying at and the woman who escaped called 911 from. The cops obviously didn't look upstairs. Considering they'd have had to get evidence for the abduction it's almost unbelievable that they could miss this body until Grate told them where she was

[u/Steveslastventure]

So it's a documentary about a House of Horrors Killer...but they censor out the words "rape" "sex" and "sexual assault". Youtube and censorship is so dumb these days. Wouldn't want the youth to hear naughty words like rape, better just describe it in detail

[u/godca_grema]

Most intense opening to one of these videos ever.

[u/Gofnutz]

Dude, this case is so fucked up. I remember when it happened, I used to drive by that house all the time.

[u/CarpeDiem187]

Damn pretty crazy doc.

Some sick fucks out there

[u/rinkydinkmink]

this is a long one but he keeps revealing new victims all the way through

[u/sljslj]

One woman he killed he met when her car broke down. I read a book by a retired LE guy and it said if your car breaks, you should not stay in the car and wait for help because it is an easy mark for a predator.