The Consciousness Simulation, Carl Jung’s NDE & Ancient Wisdom | Timothy Desmond Ph.D

here's another big correlation between near-death experiences and physics is the light at the end of the tunnel according to special relativity which Einstein developed in 1905 if you could travel at close to the speed of light what you would see is all of the light in the universe even light directly behind you get pulled and condensed into a single point at the end of a dark tunnel near-death experiences that's what they say I Rose above my body I was looking down at my body from this you know the light fixture of the operating room and then I'm floating above and I'm at the outer atmosphere of Earth where Carl Jung said he experienced this Hindu in this big black rock Temple and then a lot of times they talk about then I'm hurdling through space through a dark tunnel planets are wisdom past me and there's this infinitely bright all loving point of light at the end welcome back to the transmission my friends I would love to sit here and say that wisdom just makes the world a lighter more unified harmonious glorious place filled with ever more love and light but true deepening true understanding true transformation is usually at best quite a process sometimes just overflowing with growing pains and feelings of hopelessness like you're never going to get out of this Dark Night of the Soul or something this is why I think the first stage in the archetypal alchemical process is the blackening this stage that exemplifies confusion and a lack of understanding that really speaks to the truth of what Insight first brings you know also think of the grammar of any kind of breakthrough whether it's philosophical or scientific or technological it often makes the status quo really uncomfortable the scientific establishment rejected Einstein's theories Einstein rejected quantum theory and it makes sense right reality is hard enough to make sense of nobody wants to have their worldview that they've worked so hard to create dismembered right in front of them but sometimes what looks like disarray or negretto or dismembering is actually just a necessary step to evolve anyway this motif of idea Evolution and Alchemy is fresh on my mind for a couple of reasons for one I just read the great Passion of the western Mind by Richard tarnis which really summarizes the entire evolution of Western philosophical thought he will be in the mind meld next week by the way but also because of our guest in this one Timothy Owen Desmond because he is attempting to square that Circle to bring seemingly disperate even dismembered ideas together in a really fascinating Soulful and novel way in his book he ties in ancient esoteric platonic wisdom and Indian wisdom with the mythopoetic genius of Carl Yung and even modern theoretical physics and with that I've already been rambling for far too long so all the links that you're going to need for Timothy Owen Desmond and his book and his course are going to be in the description I say it every week my friends but it is because it is of the utmost importance that you tickle that algorithm with a like a sub a comment a share so much love to all of you doing it every week we've also got over 300 mind melds that will only ever be available in the audio Dimension so do subscribe to third ey drops wherever you listen to podcasts I would also love to invite you into our wonderwater over at patreon.com third ey drops where you can meet a community of other curious kin via our Patron only Discord server we do a monthly Wonder gym and book club you also get rewards like stickers pins shirts and more depending on pledge level over at patreon.com sl3d ey drops and with that my dear friends let's commence this mindmeld with the wise wonderful Timothy Owen Desmond the last one we did really captured people's attention I'm I was so glad to see it because your work is really fascinating really unique and ties back into so many of the topics that I'm obsessed with you know Yung the Paranormal Plato uh Eastern mysticism modern science and physics it's all wrapped up in your work and I'm so glad that it came across and that the audience was able to to grock it or at least enjoy it so really excited for for round two and to see where this goes man yeah thanks Michael it was it was cool to see people were interested in that previous video normally a video about Plato and physics and young is more popular but it doesn't get that much um interest but that one seemed to catch on more than than the normal I think it was had a lot to do with the questions you asking the context you were providing explaining it to your audience who's used to hearing you so I thank you for that I I do what I can to steer I do what I can to steer but um anyway we were just talking about it's always difficult to know where to start these big sprawling conversations but um I brought up someone that the audience is very interested in last time and I diverted from going into his work because I didn't want to hijack you away from your work but you said that you have looked a bit more um into Donald Hoffman since we spoke before so I can't resist um asking you what your thoughts are um on his work and his sort of main hypotheses and um thoughts about the nature of reality and um you know as with any complex Nuance topic I feel like there needs to be a little bit of uh orientation for people who aren't familiar with his ideas um you feel free to give that context or if you want me to I can do it either way oh I'd rather you do it I think you're probably more familiar with him than I am though I have been watching a lot of his videos and I've got a pretty good grip on his basic ideas um and I've got some ideas on how to comment on it but I'd like you to give a little intro so I can refresh myself also yeah so so don was a professor of cognitive science um for his whole career studied perception eventually came and very technical I mean he he wrote you know technical PhD level books on on U cognitive science and perception and he has come to the philosophical conclusion that we essentially sense 0% of reality with our sense faculties rather what our senses are are something akin to um like a computer desktop interface and he calls this the desktop theory of perception and essentially what it is is that when you go to your computer desktop and you see uh a button for Microsoft Word and a button for you know um Google Chrome those are just convenient images for you to interact with that will allow you to do something that you're seeking to do the reality of what that is is just Stacks and stacks of protocols and ones and zeros and programming that if you saw the raw data output you would not be able to interact with it um and for various reasons Hoffman thinks that that is what our model of the world is is essentially like an evolutionarily convenient construct that we need to operate in reality but it is not a onetoone depiction of reality it's it's not he literally says it's 0% of reality and he has technical reasons for saying this so um before you come at me in the comments with any of this this being nonsense do your due diligence on on what Don is really saying um so that's part of it and then the second major part of it is he thinks that beyond that evolutionarily convenient construct there is uh what he calls a realm of conscious agents so he believes that there is this realm populated by these things called conscious agents which he has developed a mathematical theoretical model of and is doing work that goes way over my head um about and that we're going to be able to demonstrate the reality of this realm scientifically eventually and that and the bottom line is that he is kind of an is an idealist a sort of idealist and that he believes that Consciousness is primary uh material and even the world as we perceive it is a is an elusory construct but it's a construct that we require to survive um reproduce Etc so I think that in a nutshell kind of covers Don's basic theories yeah that's I I remember from watching his videos about that I I remembered his metaphor of the virtual headset yes that's how we're perceiving the world and um he mentioned that he's working with some other scientists and they're talking about the amplitud hedron right right right is a geometrical shape they're using to explain the interactions of particles when they Collide to describe that complex situation um so I was trying to think and I was talking to chat gp4 about this cool how would that Donald Hoffman's Theory correlate to the psyche equal Singularity equation where I'm correlating platonic Union the platonic Union model of the Soul with this soul in the central point of the universe and at each point of the encompassing sphere the mother substance and holographic String Theory which says there's a singularity in the center of the universe and that all the information is conserved at this holographic film at this Horizon of the cosmos and IT projects in on these strings to create this cinematic hologram that we live in this illusion that that's what Leonard suskin says from an atheistic materialistic perspective although it's his definition of materialism must be weird because he's saying we live in the Cinematic hologram that's his own term wow and that the past the present and the future are conserved at each point of this infinitely hot Horizon of the cosmos that's he describes it that way oh so if it's infinitely hot that means there's a singularity at each point because an infinite amount of energy that contains the past the present and the future of the whole universe means it's a singularity at each point of this Horizon of the cosmos yeah which agrees with the platonic idea of the soul in the center in the timeus the souls the Demi urge puts the soul in the center of the universe which somehow encompasses the outermost fear which he calls the mother substance which projects the material world into the volume of space like a winnowing fan separating chaff from wheat so that's Plato's Vision Carl Young had his near-death experience of the same thing in 1944 had a heart attack and his psyche Rose above the Earth and when it was all said and done he said it seemed to me as if the past present and future are out at the Horizon of the cosmos and each of us is Tethered to the Horizon of the cosmos by a thread as if we're imprisoned in these little cubes these little boxes of three-dimensional illusion so it's a really excellent mirror symmetry between Plato Yung and Leonard susin that was my book psych and singularity so I'm reading or I read some of Hoffman's work but he's got a lot of mathematical equations as it there's no way I can you know which I appreciate I was I'm I'm glad he's doing that I know Plato wanted that to be done right right a mathematical description of a conscious agent that's a fascinating concept I think I have the formula for the mathematical equation of a conscious agent because I'm saying psyche equals singularity and there's a mathematical equation you know I don't know how to describe it in mathematics other than the infinity symbol a singularity is a point of infinite gravity and that was based on Carl Young's Leap Day equation of 1952 psyche equals highest intensity in the smallest space he was trying to say why can't we measure psychic energy because E equals mc2 he learned about relativity Theory from Einstein and he was speculating in the context of special relativity and general relativity and he talked about traveling faster than light you would disappear from space and time and you could ex ex exchange extension in space for a higher intensity he mentioned infinite intensity he mentioned no extension so he concluded psyche equals highest intensity in the smallest space mhm so the highest intensity is infinite intensity small space is zero volume that's a gravitational singularity he was thinking in terms of gravity so in Donald Hoffman's work he's coming up with mathematical descriptions of a conscious agent I'm saying psyche equals Singularity based on Carl Jung's equation and that includes the encompassing Horizon of the cosmos where people seem to experience the past present and future of the whole universe during near-death experiences like the myth of Earth the end of the Republic even has the threads of Destiny woven into the by the three Fates who represent the past present and future so this whole world I'm saying in agreement with Leonard suskin the so-called atheist is a hologram a virtual reality literally a holographic movie that's how Brian Green the famous string theist Brian Green describes it he says it's a holographic movie and he said that while comparing it to Plato's Cave allegory which he says holographic string theor is like an inside out version of Plato's Cave allegory because the reality is the flat two-dimensional surface and the three-dimensional world is the illusion projected from there whereas in the cave the three-dimensional objects project the two-dimensional Shadows on the wall and I remember at our last conversation I said that it seems like that but on closer inspection the so-called two-dimensional surface is really infinitely deep because it contains the past the present and the future of all three-dimensional space and what they aren't obviously factoring in is is near- depth experiences of the Horizon of the cosmos yeah yeah yeah that it contains all Consciousness yes and I'm arguing it contains all the archetypes of the collective unconscious it is the collective unconscious mind and the conscious pole of the psyche is the central Singularity and the collective unconscious pole of the archetype of the self in whom we participate is the Horizon of the cosmos so we covered all that stuff yeah yeah but I'm just I think we may I think we may need to to to unpack some of it again CU um even though I um participated in the conversation obviously um yeah and I pick up everything you're putting down and and I'm and I'm connecting the dots and all these things I think it might we might be moving a little bit fast for for the some of the viewers but the first thing I want to say already really interesting uh synchronicity because I was talking to um this guy Josh Shay yesterday who has an amazing podcast called the emerald and it's like um you know highly researched highly produced uh thematic and what underpins his own personal philosophy is very much a kind of um animistic rebirth and taking seriously the notion that we are not just these you know disperate consciousnesses floating around that we really are connected to this field of Consciousness and other intelligences and what you know what the Ancients would have called spirits or diamons or gods or whatever um and without getting too into the Weeds on on all of that so I just talked to him yesterday and we finished that conversation talking about these ideas of sacred or primordial fire that seem to pervade so many um mystical traditions and myths you know you find it in um I I know you're into to uh Eastern mysticism and and now I'm um what is the what is the the Hindu or yogic like uh primordial fire I forget what the word is well I mean there's a lot of different words for Concepts that are similar to that but the fundamental one in in terms of light so there's Brahman but there's also another word brahot what's the one that's like equated to heat that you would uh that's like one of the three yes yes yes yeah that's what it was that's what it was um yeah and and we were talking about you know like um how there's like this there's like the that in the inner sense but there's also that in the cosmic sense and there's also fire involved of in in any kind of transformation or purification or alchemical work and also when you start reading um some of the more mystical platonic stuff including the Tas when they're talking about you know the the PRI the the Greek concept of the basic elements you know the fire water earth air fire in some way seems to be the most primordial and and ancient and when you look at depictions of the uh platonic you know Cosmos like the the ones that we know are not like literally true because you know there's like you have Earth in the center and then you have these like PL of archetypal planetary existence coming up from the Earth but the outer Horizon Tim is fire it's noetic fire so so when you get out of so there's seven spheres seven planetary spheres this might come into our conversation later um sure the final sphere is the is like this eighth sphere and I'll I'll flash some art up here but it's usually depicted as like this Burning outer ring and sometimes there are like these Angelic um you know creatures dwelling dwelling there and the idea is is like that's when when you get Beyond these seven archetypal qualities and you get to this true noetic realm Beyond concept I I guess this would have to be almost like a non-u kind of um unitive kind of Consciousness I I don't know but that's what it seems like to me but I just I can't ignore the coincidence um that that you're saying that literally it almost seems to be that the that the Horizon of the cosmos what did you say it's like infinitely hot or something yeah that's Leonard susin he said now the the cosmic Horizon is only an existence it's dependent on your physical position so from our position on Earth The Horizon of the cosmos is where the fabric of SpaceTime is expanding away from us at the speed of light but as you approach it physically it recedes with every step just like the Horizon on the Earth every step you take the Horizon dips but Leonard susin said if you had a a cable that was long enough hypothetically with a thermometer on it and you could spool it out through space then as it approached the Horizon it would approach the infinite temperature of the Event Horizon of a black hole that's what he said but if you were traveling out there at the same time following that thermometer there it would you it'd be just regular space there'd be no heat at all so people on Earth looking through a telescope that could conceivably see that that far would see you incinerated and smeared out all around the inside of this infinitely hot two-dimensional sphere yeah but you would just pass right on through the nowhere's Ville although you would never be able to get back into the universe because the fabric of SpaceTime is receding or expanding away at the speed of light from that perspective I'm saying during near-death experiences when your body is on Earth your psyche goes out there and you experience the past the present and the future and you become one with this Cosmic mind yeah and that's where Dante for example put the Throne of God when he was describing Paradiso right and and and that has a lot to do with the the mathematics of of the hypers sphere but at any rate it's infinitely hot from our perspective on Earth if you physically travel out there it would recede as you approached it but if you go there as a disembodied psyche during a near-death experience then you experience the past the present and the future of the whole universe and furthermore you experience these Arc typle characters like you were speaking about angels and all kinds of Arc typle themes and that's that's what Plato describes in the myth of and that is what Carl Jun definitely describes in memories dreams Reflections to a te he describes all this that it was the most it was the most Blissful eternally Blissful experience he'd ever had these nightly Visions after his initial near-death experience that he felt he was floating in space in the womb of the universe which is like the mother substance in the timeus yeah but um so anyway about the infinite heat it's important also because infinite heat means infinite energy at every point which means it's a singularity so that helps the psyche equals Singularity equation man there there's so many different directions I want to go here like I'm tempted to go back to a little bit of Hoffman but I also want to go uh deeper into what we're talking about here because I have uh a potential Paradox that I'm trying to to reconcile in my mind that I'm not sure if it's reconcilable I'm also curious what you meant about the hypers sphere thing um but but but but also um yeah the the D Dante or Virgil's you know Divine and infernal hierarchies it's the same uh archetype I was describing earlier where you essentially have these seven archetypal planes right where it's like the you know the the seven classical planets like um Sun Moon Mercury Venus Jupiter uh Mars Saturn um Saturn is the last one they could see yeah and and then Virgil essentially took those those same archetypes and both made them you know Divine versions and infernal versions uh for my for my um memory but um but anyway the yeah let's not go back to Hoffman because that's just going to derail this conversation with like weird technical bibs and bibs and Bops um you know like things like what is a conscious age and like amplitud hedron like those are fun conversations but I also think that they might just divert from from the larger scope of this thing well I think there's one one thing we could at least tie what we had said about him into what we're about to say and that was that his his idea that we're all wearing these virtual headsets yeah um that reminded me of Manuel Kant who said space and time are not empirically observable those are the op categories of thought through which your sense impressions are filtered to create a human experience and then Hegel said okay but those aren't the the space and time Concepts we have from Isaac Newton aren't the only concepts of space and time you could have and causality and he talked about how it evolves through history right and I thought if you brought that in to what Dr Hoffman is talking about you know because he talks about different virtu headsets for different people we have a low-grade one he says that only sees you know whatever three spatial dimensions and and another important point that he talked about is we're all participating in one conscious agent that all of yeah our interactions are really one Consciousness experiencing itself and that's kind of his idea of the meaning of of existence and uh so those are two points that I definitely agreed with I'm not sure if he believes that each of us is eternally an individual autonomous conscious agent simultaneously I think so yes yeah he he said that death is taking off the headset to me before he's he said that exact thing and and uh just so it's not um confusing the desktop analogy is the same as the headset analogy so it's kind of like um you could view it as like clicking around on a desktop or you could you could view it as literally your perception as me as Michael you as Tim as anybody listening that is your headset POV and there's some important nuances here because Don's not like a simulation theorist even though this sounds like a simulation he is a idealist like in in the sense that it's it's all Consciousness doing things and right now Consciousness a conscious agent behind our corporeal reality is experiencing as Michael as Tim as whoever and um to me it's extremely platonic like I I want him to read more Plato because if you think about there there's and not just platonic but also any kind of mysticism that deals with there being some fundamental Unity but also multiplicity of that un because the conscious agent could either be the total and this is where it gets could get technical because he does have a technical uh you know L like logically rigorous notion of what a conscious agent is but it's both infinitely it's it's like it to my understanding it's almost like a fractal in that it can be infinite in simplicity like within a constraint you know it's like like the mandle BR fractal behind me it's like you you have Infinity in a very small amount of technical information like there's equations that govern the mandal BR fractal and it's so so like that's one of the things that's just impossible to wrap your mind around right is like we can contain Infinity in an expressable way that you can like go on YouTube and write like mandle BR hard zoom and no no no two videos will be the same and they're all governed by the same math in different permutations and that's kind of I think what he's trying to uh get across and and again I think that that from my understanding also works with with what you talk about pretty seamlessly yeah that well that's why I was spending time trying to understand what he was saying because he's developing the mathematics to describe this which is so important to have mutual verification so that people can believe it because the math is more easily analyzed in an objective way and it does seem very platonic um the only slight possible issue that I had was when I was watching One video and they were talking about nondualism ad theant which says that all individuality is an illusion really the ultimate ground of being is bramon and it's this impersonal precognitive Bliss and it has it contains the potential for all individual forms but those are temporary and illusory and yet he clearly talks about uh Supreme self observing itself through each of us which doesn't seem to me to agree with the odway to vant because the Vidant tradition evolved or at least developed after Shankar who was this OD and nondualist interpretation who said that the individuals are elusory the otman side it went through ramanuja and mava and chaitan and chananya is the one who had this godia vnaa school of vant and his slogan was ainia beta betaa yeah which means god is inconceivably which is important you can't form a con a concept to explain it but God is in conceivably simultaneously one and different yeah from every expansion from God meaning us and since we're absolute parts of the absolute God each of us is inconceivably simultaneously one with everyone else and different from everyone else yes and that was that was what I was trying to glean from listening to Hoffman's talks but at the very least he believes there is one God there's it seems to me one supreme conscious agent yeah of whom we are all participants and so I just like the way he's trying to nail down the mathematics to describe all that that is Plato's ultimate goal and I do believe Leonard suskin and herard tooed with their holographic String Theory inadvertently unintentionally did what Plato was seeking because their cosmology has a perfect mirror symmetry with Plato's cosmology the spherical Universe with the central point the information conservation at the Horizon of the cosmos literally the strings projecting the illusion of three-dimensional space and the for Plato the absolute Eternal ideas exist at the Horizon of the cosmos this is hugely important that means that's the collective unconscious mind so what I am hoping is that Donald Hoffman's research will help to develop the mathematics to link psychology specifically Union platonic Union archetypic psychology to that holographic string theory of the megae of univers is if he could describe the psyche which I believe is a singularity the interactions of how it manifests Consciousness I think that would be filling in the details of the loose framework that I think is provided by the psyche equal Singularity equation yeah like what are the details of how the collective unconscious archetypes at the Horizon of the cosmos enable us to experience three-dimensional holographic forms here in the volume of space and I'm sure susin and to have a lot of formulas to describe how that happens physically but what's the psychological interaction to make it happen I think that's where Hoffman's working yeah I don't I don't know if he'll if he'll get too into the psychology phenomenology aspect of it ever but I really hope someone does I really hope someone uses you know because I I here's here's here's actually I've never said this before but here's almost my trouble with Hoffman even though I love him obviously and um hope to have many more conversations with him is like it's it's so personally important what he's saying but ultimately the way that he's expressing it technically is not personally phenomenologically experienceable you know it's not it's not like like his elegant mathematics and what I mean if you read that fusions of Consciousness paper or try to what he's trying to do what he's trying to do is a Nobel Prize is not a big enough prize if if he succeeds in doing this because he's seeking to take bleeding edge physics and make the constituent parts of bleeding edge physics into Consciousness like so so we're going away from you know particles and materialistic reductionist Concepts like SpaceTime or like Hilbert spaces or even Quantum particles and say that there are these like rudiments of Consciousness that obey or or are physics in some way and that those are what become physical reality eventually but they exist in a again like what do we want to call it like platonic you know hyperspace that's beyond space and time Beyond Quantum Hilbert spaces beyond anything we can conceive of um but it's also intensely not a personal or psychological thing like it has the most like ontological meaning possible right he's saying like yes Consciousness is first but the exper of what it is to be a human like doesn't the daytoday you know like of of how I experience reality doesn't change so maybe that's not a problem with him as much as it is like a limitation and that he's just one person so he can't possibly you know I mean even what I just described would be a gargantuan I think generation defining uh discovery that would probably need to be digested for for more decades before it was even accepted if it was uh sound Theory you know um yeah but I do but I do think that there are people who would carry that torch into the psychological and into the uh philosophical for sure yeah well when I meant psychological I wasn't even thinking like yian psychology I was thinking more like conscience psychology the the mechanics of Consciousness itself oh wow just which is the same which is the same for everyone yeah what is the math matical description of the process of the AR priori lenses of cognition like space and time and causality interpreting the incoming empirical discreet experiences as formulating them into the conscious experience we have yeah I believe that's what he's trying to do create a mathematical description of that process because he's saying these other guys who are saying that Consciousness comes from matter they have never presented any evidence for that they have no mathematical descriptions of that process after all these years they can't explain how it happens how do you experience chocolate I think was one of his examples yeah yeah qualia yes right so how what I'm hoping I do believe that the psyche the soul is what they call the gravitational singularity because the the parallels are really precise and it just makes sense if there is such a thing as a gravitational singularity and if there is such a thing as a psyche they've got to be the same because they have all the same qualities as described by the ancient philosophers and Yung and these physicists but the way that the psyche that each of us is the gravitational experience the gravitational singularity that each of us is how does that point of infinite gravity have conscious experiences the mathematics that susin gives us explains the projection from The Singularity at the big bang and the projection from The Horizon of the COS Cosmos on these strings to create the holographic movie we perceive so I think that provides part of that answer but I think what Hoffman's doing is coming in from the opposite direction kind of from within Consciousness itself and I just hope the two meet somehow people who could do the math I mean I wouldn't even try I have no that's not nothing I could do but I hope maybe people listening to your podcast who have the mathematical ility if they could see some kind of parallels here I think there could be it could be a Connecting Point somehow and I think that would be really cool another another thing about again try trying to mouth noise Hoffman's uh philosophy is is like stretching my abilities but one of the things that I've come to appreciate after having you know I don't remember how many conversations we've had now four or five um is that you're not going to find the answer by looking through the desktop or through the headset so when he sees people who are looking when he sees a physicists who are looking at like the big bang or they're looking at um uh searching for these primordial strings that give rise to uh subatomic particles and and whatever he Likens that to looking within a computer program for the source of the code right so so there's something even more platonic that I am now just kind of connecting the dots on with uh Hoffman which is that you your mind mathematically and logically needs to go behind the veil so to speak or behind this the headset so to speak like you can't look at things in the headset to try to explain the phenomena of the headset there's something more real and more basic and that's what he thinks these conscious agents are so I don't know if you could Square the circle between like uh holographic string theory and what he's doing because he would look at holographic string theory and say this is just an this is just like an art like a fancy artifact of the head said at best and you're not going to find Consciousness there because you're looking again he's not a simulation theorist but because you're looking at something akin to a simulation and that's like even more platonic right because he he's kind of saying like you got to take your mind to the realm beyond all of that if you want to see the deeper it's extremely like platonic and even like in a sense like Gnostic and dtic you know it's like searching for the thing that's not there or or whatever it's it's very difficult for me to wrap my mind around well that what you're saying I thought as well listening to him saying that you know there's zero correlation between what we experience and what's really there and SpaceTime is doomed he keeps quoting someone else who said that well SpaceTime is also doomed in a gravitational singularity MH it's the point where physics breaks down it's outside of space and time it's the source of space and time so much it's it's so much outside of space and time that a lot of physicists don't believe in it including Einstein himself despite the fact that Carl Schwarz Shield pointed out the implications of his own field equations for the gravitational field in general relativity in 1916 Schwarz Shield provided the first mathematical solution for the gravitational field the first exact solution Einstein had an approximate one that was December 22 1915 in February 1916 he says according to your theory if a star of sufficient Mass existed it would collapse into this point of infinite gravity and it would surround itself with a sphere where the inward title flow of SpaceTime reaches the speed of light that we call an event horizon Einstein said nonsense just because my equations indicate such a outrageous thing doesn't mean nature will allow it and then George lametra the Jesuit priest who came up with the Big Bang Theory oh that's his name in 1927 yeah he talked to Einstein he says look according to your equations SpaceTime is expanding something that Einstein was aware of and and corrected for with what he called the cosmological constant in 1917 but to get to lametra he says if it's expanding that implies it is expanding from a a point of infinite density because if you go back in time it would be contracting until all of SpaceTime would be in one point the primordial atom which then Pope Pas I 12 who Carl Yung liked because he had this mystical idea of the the Assumption of Mary into heaven he equated the mat's theory of the Big Bang which seemed to be Vindicated by Edwin Hubble in 1929 so so let matro went to Einstein and he says look here's what your theory indicates Einstein says uh your mathematics are good but your theory is preposterous just like he said to shorts shield and then two years later Edwin Hubble with the 100 inch mirrored telescope on the Mount Wilson Observatory in California discovered that galaxies exist that it's not just stari nebula and that the galaxies are expanding away from us at a rate that increases in proportion to their distance from us which which is called the Hubble constant now so then Einstein said okay well that implies the universe is expanding it must have been contract it must have been in an incredibly dense point but it still couldn't have been infinite that's ridiculous because that would place it outside of space and time physics would break down it wouldn't make any sense but black holes exist we know that now the first picture of one was taken I think it was April uh 7th uh 29 19 at any rate it was April 2019 and then the jets shooting out was photographed a year later black holes exist the Big Bang most n seems to have occurred the evidence indicates that indicates the singularity is real but that pisses off a lot of physicists Mitch Kaku doesn't believe in it um Stephen Hawking did believe in it in 1965 that was his PhD dissertation that he worked on at the same time as Roger Penrose Roger Penrose and he had the same graduate adviser Penrose came up with a big bang explanation U no Penrose came up with a description of how a star would actually collapse into a singularity and then Hawking said oh can I reverse the time Dimension and use that model to describe the Big Bang so that's what they did but then Hawking heard um that the Catholic church had said that that's evidence for God and I and as an atheist I think he realized you know what that it does seem like evidence for God therefore there is no Singularity right yeah that's how he described it his motive was that and then he seems to have come back to it but at any rate my point is to relate this back to Hoffman's work a singularity is where SpaceTime is doomed everything's doomed that goes into a black hole although from another perspective outside the black hole everything that falls into it from the perspective of someone following into it is conserved at the Event Horizon and leaks out with the Hawking radiation that's fundamental to ssin's holographic String Theory but the singularity is outside of SpaceTime so to equate a singularity with the conscious agent wouldn't violate Hoffman's claim that we live in a virtual headset so how can you learn anything about reality through the virtual headset and I'm saying the virtual headset the Hologram that's created by the virtual headset is created by the singularity in the center of the universe which exists at each point of the Horizon of the cosmos that is the projector of the virtual reality that's what we are that is the conscious agent and I think that there's a lot of strong evidence that's my book psyching Singularity I think the evidence I laid out there is strong the parallels that Plato and Yung and wolf gong Pali the co-founder of quantum physics said we should look for and Hegel which I've been studying a lot recently yeah I want to get the way to learn about the spirit is to study its mirror reflection in gravity I think you can learn about something about the psyche by analyzing the virtual reality that's created in the headset that's another that's a point I agree with him that it's a virtual reality but I disagree that you can't learn anything about the nature of the psyche by observing the physics of the Hologram I think you can because there's this mirror symmetry there I don't think there necessarily has to be one it's just that's the way God made it yeah's opinion so there there's a lot to chew on there but I mean we that's something worth chewing on oh yeah yeah and it definitely fits in with the sort of platonic and later hermetic and you know Western esoteric idea of there being this correspondence that goes all the way from the microcosm up to the macrocosm and there is some kind of very real self symmetry going on there I just did a video about this um the the work might be starting out there I'm not sure if you hear it or not but um oh man the tree the tree trimmers yeah um oh yeah talking about the the the Symmetry between the macrocosm and the microcosm and that there is some very real not not theoretical or philosophical similarity but a a singular substance and reality that underpins all of that but then also these corresponding archetypal relationships between macrocosm and microcosm um and one of the places I ended up going in that video that I think fits into this conversation really neatly um oh and and quick sidebar uh Bobby aeran neuroscientist uh wrote a book called The Romance of reality he's coming at this more from like a uh com complexity Theory and what he calls uh poetic metan naturalism I think is is what he calls it um and his stance is that the universe is naturally creative and does have an agenda and is trying to complexify and become more conscious so he he's not like a theist in a Trad sense but one of the things that interesting to me that fits with what we're talking about is that to your point about how Hawking kind of unwittingly proved the Big Bang in some way and he didn't ended up not liking it because it sounded theistic Bobby was saying the same thing and again remember this is not somebody with a with some kind of um religious agenda he says that science has succeeded in in proving God over and over again but then ends up calling whatever God is natural right well it's natural now because now it's science and it's no longer religion because we can explain the mechanics of it uh or and the theory of it to some serviceable degree so now it's just natural so we just keep cannibalizing what was God under the banner of it being natural now and that's to me tot like my my I think the platonic God we could say it's not limited to the Natural but it's extendedly natural because it's Beyond the Horizon of what I think we will ever be able to fully comprehend yet it's fully compatible with everything that's going on in the physical world like there's some element of that higher truth that is actively shining down into this realm at all times and I don't think we'll ever fully or be able to logically explain that one that Transcendent one thing is that they always talk about through like negative theology you know it's not this it's not that it's it's not a concept it's before a concept it's the concept of a concept you know it's like it's all the all the like all the like brain language they use I don't I don't think we'll ever be able to fully capture that thing but I also think that we're going to continuously kind of like Zeno's Paradox of the arrow get closer to the infinitely distant object you know we're going to get better language and better theories and keep getting more and more precise in some way and that doesn't make it not Divine to me you know there are some people who are are committed to juxtaposing the Natural and and the Divine and are you know just committed to the idea that God is outside it's not in it's not in here and I I I just don't understand that but um another thing I wanted to run by you too is I don't know if you've thought about this or um if this has entered into your theory at all but um and it has in pen roses apparently and as we as you and I know and some listeners know um Penrose considers himself a mathematical platonist and he believes in the Big Bang but he believes that um it's like cyclical and that the universe itself is eternal and um and I was like that that's interesting I'm not sure what to make of that when I first heard it and of course I don't understand the technicals of why he thinks that then I'm I'm listening to a podcast on procas uh you know like the the neoplatonist um right great teacher who we have tons of writings from and they're talking about well of course for a platonist the universe is eternal and then it dawned on me and I'm like oh maybe that's why Penrose is exploring this idea of the universe being Eternal and having successive Big Bangs because right if if you really are a platonist you've got to believe in some kind of eternality of the cosmos apparently um so I I don't know if that comes into play with with what you talk about at all but but that's that's an interesting idea because for the most mainstream Christian theologians the idea of the ex niilo from nothing creation you know this is why they like the idea of a big bang because it sounds like that right it sounds like the Genesis creation from from nothing yeah that's the pope Pope P the 12 uses that language it's the creation from nothing from the hand of God so he's basically equating the singularity with the creative hand of God but yeah that's link yeah and and maybe this is just getting way too metaphor to even really matter in any kind of practical way but um have you thought about that or and does the idea of there being a single Universe with a concrete beginning resonate more or this idea of this eternal um ever you know pulsating and and uh I don't know Contracting expanding into Infinity thing right feel feel more true well yeah I do I have an opinion on it um Einstein wanted the world the universe to be static and eternal neither expanding nor Contracting so he added in the cosmological constant which he later called his greatest blunder in 1929 when Hub Hubble showed the universe is expanding SpaceTime is expanding um and then penrose's idea if I recall it correctly is that the universe is expanding it will continue to expand but somehow or another it'll expand so much it'll forget that it's expanding and the Big Bang will start again it was this really technical way he was describing how that would happen everything would turn into black holes and then the singularities and the singularities would evaporate another point to keep in mind from all of this is that the Universe might be limited in its duration from our perspective in these three-dimensional bodies experiencing linear time but from the perspective of a singularity or a photon even there's no passage of time so it comes into beginning and it fades out of beginning from our perspective from its own perspective it could be Eternal but the real point I want to talk about this whole idea of a megaverse of universes which string theory requires for it in order for it to make sense or at least in order for it to explain why all the physical parameters including the cosmological constant that Einstein inserted in 1917 into the field equations for Gravity have to be so perfectly precise for life to exist the absolute speed of light the fine structure constant but especially this cosmological constant which describes the expansion rate of space they're all so perfectly fine-tuned the number was a a decimal point with 116 zeros and a one if it was slightly different then life couldn't have formed so it implies there's intelligent design and I'm looking if I have the oh it's it's back there yeah yeah this is largely what people sorry I I thought you were looking for something I was going to say this is largely what what people call the fine-tuning um right problem or argument right that yeah yeah so here's his book um there's a glare on there but the Cosmic Landscape string theory and the illusion of intelligent design and he says yeah it does seem like that um just put that there but the reason that it isn't intelligently designed is because there's an infinite or if not an infinite and almost infinite number of parallel universes and the all of the physical parameters required for biological life to exist are different in all of them and when you have that many universes then although it seems impossible it's inevitable that some of them will have everything just perfectly balanced for life to exist and that's his explanation for why there is no God despite that it seems that we live in an intelligently designed universe but the point that I want to bring into his idea of the megaverse of universes erupting as seeds from the quantum vacuum and inflating enormously quickly and then existing is how closely that parallels the vava school of vanta which says that the material universe is just one quarter of the entirety of the infinite being three quarters of which is the spiritual realm occasionally in the spiritual sky the Brahma jootti in which float in innumerable spiritual Eternal planets Each of which is kind of like Plato's idea of the good it contains all the absolute Eternal forms yeah they say and each one of those is presided over by a Vishnu and a Lakshmi a God and a goddess an a mono um many formed monotheism polymorphic monotheism is how this I've heard it described or even more precisely polymorphic B monotheism many forms of the Dual gendered one God in vant vaishnavism it's Vishnu is the male side and lsh is the female side of the god archetype and the many forms of the god Arch type populate these spiritual planets and in some coagulated section of the spiritual realm is this m causal ocean and then a one of vishnu's many avatars is Maha Vishnu or kurano dhashay Vishnu who lies down in this causal Cosmic material ocean and goes to sleep yeah yeah yeah and as he sleeps from the pores of his skin Little Seeds exhale and they inflate into these bubble universes and then Vishnu incarnates again in the center of every bubble universe as the um there's kurano dhashay Vishnu and then um oh I can't believe I'm I'm oh Garbo dhashay Vishnu that's the center of every bubble universe and then Vishnu incarnates again his Shiro dhashay Vishnu also known as paramatma which is the atomic soul in the center of every jivatma you and I soul and all the material elements and furthermore the outermost sphere of each of these bubble universes is called the Akasha so we are talking about these spheres of elements earth water fire air and in some models it's the planetary orbits Plato uses both mhm and then ether they call it translated as or aasha and the past the present and the future are conserved in this akashic outermost sphere from which the reality inward is projected in the one of the upanishads the Bri ranaka upanishad they talk about the fundamental strings from the aasha yeah that the past present and future are interwoven at the aasha and that we are projections of this fundamental string a sutman Sutra is thread and adon's soul so they have all of these fundamental ingredients that Plato has plus the parallel universes that susin talks about is is this the same as like indra's net of jewels as well or is that a different no this mythological layer so Indra yeah Indra is a demigod and there's an Indra in every one of these universes so the demigods are posts that Souls can reincarnate into there's a Indra in every parallel universe there's a Brahma who would be equivalent I think to the demiurge in Plato's tus yeah it seems like it yes yeah the original demigod who's born at the top of the Universe on the lotus flower stemming from um Garbo deashi vishnu's Naval yeah there there's a visual people it's a the famous visual is that Vishnu is sleeping and there's like a Lotus growing out of Vishnu and then on top of the lotus like somehow Brahma is born born from the Lotus and Brahma is this like all pervasive Divine mind kind of kind of presence yeah Brahma is the demigod and it's related and often gets confused with brahan which is the cosmic flip side of Atman so Brahman is is just infinite being the ground of being otman is the individual particle subject aspect of bramon it's inconceivably simultaneously adman and bramon yeah and and that is reflected in the particle wave Paradox of quantum mechanics which was discovered by the two slit experiment in 1927 When You observe you you simultaneously a particle a subjective point of view eternally oton and you're Sim inconceivably you're simultaneously in an a wave in an ocean of personal precognitive Bliss that contains the potential for all individual forms to be experienced and in the badita this world is considered to be the tree that grows upside down which is a metaphor for a mirror reflection of a tree on a body of water because the leaves seem to go down the roots seem to go up it's the same idea of looking for the mirror symmetry between the physical world and the psychic world the opman Brahman Paradox is reflected in the fundament ground of quantum mechanics particle wave String Theory says the particles are even more fundamental strings which wrap around compactified dimensions of space to create the particles we perceive but to bring this back to what you were talking about earlier you said Hoffman's Theory doesn't have any kind of explanation for the intensely personal nature of Consciousness one way I see this megaverse of parallel universes as the dream of God is that we live in the unconscious Mind Of God which is something Carl Young speculated about an answer to job and that's something I talk about in the class immortality and the unreality of death a hero's journey through philosophy psychology and physics we talked about Ernest Becker he says the number one motivating force of the human species is the fear of death yeah he said that's because we have Consciousness which can turn back in on itself and reflect own Act of Consciousness animals are aware but they're not aware that they're aware we are and we have symbolic knowledge he said and we can contemplate eternity and infinity and we want to live forever and then we have this horrific realization we're going to die and when we're thrust into this world where the predominant worldview is just atheistic and materialistic we freak out and we try to compensate because we want to live forever ever so we try to do these heroic things to imprint our name on reality to live in some other kind of a way if we don't have eternal Souls well then I'll carve my name into reality in some evil way and I think these parallels between physics and and psychology and theology make it more and more believable and more and more reasonable to believe that we are these Eternal conscious agents we are Eternal Souls why does it seem r om and evil well that's a really good question and I think a really good answer is that we live in God's subconscious mind if God's really a person and we're absolute parts and Parcels of God as Twisted as our psychology is as Freud and Yung were well aware as dark as the shadow we have is is that just unique to us God doesn't experience that if we're if we're absolute parts of this absolute God then the whole has all of the qualities of every part so if we have a kind of a twisted subconscious mind imagine how twisted God's subconscious mind God is each of us God is you God is me God is everyone yeah I said oh do you think God doesn't have a sense of humor well God is at least as funny as Richard prior um when I was a kid that he was the funniest man on the earth I said you don't think God is uh you know a good athlete he's at least as good as whoever you know Muhammad Ali is a boxer or he's at least as good as whatever highest level being he's at least as good of a physicist as Einstein because he is all of these people right well if he's got all those qualities and he's manifesting them through those people and us and you and me but i' imagine he's got a very interesting subconscious mind and I think we live in it and all the tragic things we do is is is manifesting God's Own psych psychic issues that are being worked out and he's got locki so there infinite infinitely fertile soil for psychological issues the male and female side of God we are reflections of that realm and more specifically I think we are the subconscious manifestation so that in yung's Map There's the conscious mind then there's the personal subconscious mind and then there's the collective unconscious mind and in the book and in the class I equate the conscious aspect of the archetypal self with the central Singularity the collective unconscious aspect of the archetypal self with the Horizon of the cosmos but the three-dimensional volume of space the holographic illusion The Cinematic hologram that's the personal subconscious mind of each of us and of God the actual goings on of these holographic forms interacting through three dimensions of space along a passion-filled timeline our subconscious mind exists there when you have a near-death experience you rise above the Earth you're disembodied psyche and you recalled your life you have a Life review and then as because the light that describes our lives here on Earth is radiating out into space the information is still out there so our actual incarnate Earthly bodies that we're in right now our whole history from our birth and before is recorded it's hurdling out toward the Horizon of the cosmos at the speed of light it'll take a long time to get there so all of the information of the threedimensional forms is located at each point of the Horizon of the cosmos but it's also embodied in the volume of space if that's the subconscious mind of God it just helps us find meaning in a believable way that can take into account things like Freud and Young and the best physics available is it really uh sophisticated of me as an educator human being in the 21st century to believe in God how does that make sense I mean isn't God some judge he's a big daddy and he's saying no no don't do this and I'm saying that's a one you know Elementary rudimentary level of understanding God but if you want to get deeper and psychoanalyze God like Carl Young did in answer to job why was God so vicious and mean to job what what's going on with that and his conclusion was maybe God has an unconscious mind and that would go a long ways describing evil in the world so I talk about that in this book Immortal I mean the class which is now available for free on YouTube so people can watch it's 18 hours where I go through my book oh wow yeah psyche and Singularity the is the concepts there and I say look psyching Singularity provides an answer to Ernest Becker's conundrum must believe in God he's saying he distilled all of 20th century psychology into its kernel of Truth which he equated with sain k ard's idea that we need to take a leap of faith in God MH forget about Reason by virtue of the Absurd you must take a leap of faith in God Pascal's wager said something similar to that and I'm saying you have to take a leap of faith yes but it's better if you take a leap of faith from as strong a foundation of science as you possibly can and including psychology and when you combine yunan Freudian psychology with holographic string theory and you have this model of the cosmos and the model of the psyche the next level is to start to well what's the psychology of God what's my purpose in relation to God which is what Ernest Becker says we must see ourselves as Heroes performing on the cosmic stage for God that our heroics must be appreciated by an infinitely powerful Observer otherwise it doesn't satisfy our infinite imagination and I'm saying one way we can heroically see ourselves serving God is by being God's psychoanalysts like history is a study of the Neurosis of God manifesting through the human species and the animal species because if you've ever looked at nature programs there's some horrific things going on yeah for sure what what does that say about God there's some horrific things happening every day lift any rock turn over any log and you're going to be seeing just life and death death struggle and I believe that we are living in the psychodynamics of God yeah that's that's definitely one way to look at it I think a lot of people have trouble swallowing that version of God it it I'm sure you've heard some of Jung's riffs on a brais and how you know the the sort of standard view of the god that's only good from like the the human perspective of what it means to be good is this very kind of like unfinished childish idea because if you have a being that is fully complete it it encapsulates like both the darkness and the light to the maximum but yeah so he talks about you know this like God above God being like Superfluous ma like good beyond all imagining a as well as evil and it's it's above it has to be both of those Concepts and above and transcending both of those concepts for it to truly be God that's one way to look at it I think another way to look at it is that essentially like the tus lays this out is that you do have something that is transcendently good and perfect which is the first cause of everything and then you also have these noetic Realms of Eternal qualities and who knows what else and this is where the platonic um idos come from the archetypes the uh ideals come from but when you start creating things that live in a universe of anema of of movement and of coming and going you naturally get the problem of evil because if you if you have physical things that are in motion that are interacting and they're coming in and out of being that in in and of itself appears to be evil from this like in an Earnest I've never tied Earnest Becker into this but you know lamenting I mean I I wrote this this quote down by Ernest Becker this is the terror to have emerged from nothing to have a name a consciousness of self deep inner feelings an excruciating inner yearning and self expression and with all this yet to die you know and Le let's give him some credit because he was he I think he died at 49 of colon cancer and was um probably just turned 50 yeah yeah um and he poly got a uh um pullitzer prize for or was it a Nobel Prize Nobel Prize for writing 1973 I think the book came out yeah is there even a no prize for writing I don't know it would make my class worth more but I don't think so I think it just am measly pullit her yeah yeah um but yeah and and what he's he he's very the denial of death is a is a really even for my like not deep reading of it is really complex because he talks about a lot of these things that human beings feel compelled to do as sort of a reaction to what I was just describing like the horror of understanding that you are finite so therefore we try to be heroic we try to do things that will Outlast us or we try to become these you know big powerful uh successful figures that will be remembered or we make big families or we make these religions and stuff like that and he's saying that at you know he's trying almost in that kind of like Freudian reductionistic way of bringing everything down he's kind of saying like all of this really is kind of a reaction to the fact that we're going to die but then a lot of people I think get it wrong when they try to say that he is arguing for like a nihilistic atheistic kind of um existentialism because he's he's he's not um but it's like he's kind of it seems to me anyway that he's saying essentially you've got to bow to the mystery in all of its uncertainty because that's kind of all you can do and make an there's some line about like you have to make an offering of your of your um of your life essentially right to the to the mystery because there's nothing else to do about it and I and I really like that that it's not it's not coming to some conclusion like you know but when you really weigh the totality of the mysterium tremendum and the mysterium fast andos some it should make you get on your knees man it really should because because you you just don't know and you're and you're probably never going to know and that's kind of the best we can do I think but but I also don't want it to sound defeatist because I think that there is real progress to be made and I do think that like these all these people we're talking about today these like these physicists these philosophers there're something is blooming and moving forward like throughout the course of human history and yeah you'll will'll be forgotten as individuals but whatever that fire that's going from generation to generation is we can all contribute to that like meta individuation or that meta uh evolution in in some small incremental way and and that excites me and I think that's something that all of these thinkers maybe not all of them but I know Plato realized it I know Socrates realized it um Jong definitely realized it he talks about carry there's like some beautiful um writing of his where he's talking about like I've become very protective of this flame and everything is about this flame and I have to carry this flame into my death and until then like this flame is everything I do is like for this flame s sort of um something along those terms and that's exactly what he was talking about yeah and he wasn't the only one Plato had Socrates recall what he heard from the Priestess DEA in the Symposium mhhm where they're having the banquet and they're each saying all right we're gonna have a contest and who can give the best speech on love what is love and Socrates says well I'm gon to tell you what I learned from deama and she Begins by saying everything has an undying thirst for immortality because we want what's beautiful and good but we want it forever so to have it forever we must be immortal and that explains she said this extremely overpowering Lust For propagation in the physical world because that's the only way material bodies can participate in eternality is through physical procreation so that's why the sex drive is so strong she says but in the human species the more noble you are the more intensely you will strive for immortality and fame to win the deathless role the deathless name of Fame in the role of history or something like that so she was agreeing with what Becker was saying that there's this drive for immortality but she was celebrating it and she was saying that's because you are part of this supreme idea of the good you are Immortal you are Eternal your body is not but your true self is and you can learn about this absolute source of being by ascending the ladder of Beauty from Desiring beautiful individual things like individual bodies of human beings was is the metaphor they were using in this context and then you'll see how you know oh this beautiful person there's another beautiful person that implies there's some idea of beauty that institutions can participate in and you go up this ladder until you get to the idea of beauty itself and the idea of Truth and Justice and goodness this brilliant source of all of the archetypes and that then you'll be worthy to put on immortality she says when you perceive that you're part of this and in the Republic that's it's called the idea of the good and we are one with the idea of the good that's like the gravitational singularity it's this infinitely bright source of light in the physical world and of Truth and Consciousness in the intelligible world of the psyche so I believe we are undying and eternal and that's why we have says Becker and Becker was just saying whether there's a God or not whether there's a soul or not at any rate I know this the psychologists like out Rank and William James and of course um Carl Young were all saying we have this drive for immortality so if there's no God then we're screwed because we have the only way we can be healthy is to believe that we are Immortal Servants of God he kept pointing back to kir kard the Christian Theologian and um so I'm saying that the implications of the psyche equal Singularity equation which are derived mainly from Yung and the parallels with holographic String Theory gives us reasons why we should believe that we really are these Eternal heroic Servants of God and it provides the world this the cosmic stage upon which to perform our heroics we live in a a movie talk about performing your heroics we're on and the world stage is literally compared by the guy who came up with this Theory to a cinematic hologram a holographic movie uh Becker was saying we are all narcissistic yeah that we're all absolutely self in infinitely self-absorbed I said oh what a coincidence the psyche is a singularity in a black hole it's infinitely self-absorbed it contracts into itself at an infinite rate and it absorbs anything that gets near it and then he says another part of psychology is that we project ourselves onto everyone we see we project our shadow but we also project the god image onto other people which is why we worship cult Heroes and things like that and I said oh there again the singularity projects all of being from the central point and IT projects all of being in from the Horizon of the cosmos to create the Cinematic hologram that we're living in projection is natural part of the psyche because the projection is the essence of the singularity that the psyche is it projects SpaceTime into being so I was just pointing out all the correlations with the Yung suskin parallel and what Becker was saying we need to believe in and he was saying this is our problem here's what we need to believe to be healthy and it seems impossible in the context of current science but we must believe we are Eternal Cosmic Heroes performing for God and that that only projecting ourselves into the role of Servants of this God can we satisfy our infinite narcissism because now we can believe we're infinitely important because we're being appreciated by an infinitely powerful God it enables us to project all of our archetypes safely on the idea of God if you try to project those archetypes onto anyone else you're going to end up with a Hitler or a Stalin or whatever so you need to believe in God to project your archetypes onto God and he was just saying you know what a shame it seems that there's no God um and if if we want to be healthy as a society and quell this fear of death we need to believe in the things that I'm saying are much easier to believe in the context of the psyche equal Singularity equation yeah yeah so much there that I want to Riff on and follow up on I think I I also um found this quote from from Yung too that I think Dev tales in here and it's that quote seen in the seen in the correct psychological perspective death is not an end but a goal and life's inclination toward death begins as soon as the Meridian is past so this this definitely fits in with this idea that I was talking about of of like building and again we're back to this fire concept right of like finding this fire that is the sort of nucleus of your individuation in in yung's term like this this thing that you Kindle for your whole life that you build that is like the essence of who you are underneath all of the trappings of the you know whatever life is foisting on to you whatever you've done that you feel is truly unique to you and is truly the Pinnacle of what you can express in this life and if you're living in tune with that death is not an end but a goal right because your goal is to is for that to be the sort of climactic moment of the fire that you've built right like that you've you've done all this work you've you know suffered all the slings and arrows of life that You' still managed to carry this fire into your death and if you can do that you've you you've done the goal right like you've you've done exactly what you were supposed to do as a being and I think that that satisfies that heroic impulse but it's also very realistic and it it doesn't have to even be grandiose you know it could be like whatever your calling is whatever you're obsessed with whatever you are your Consciousness is like uniquely turned on by you can follow that to its end and become great at it or at least pour yourself into it and it really matters on some kind of psychospiritual level yeah it um yeah if to bring it back to the idea that we're living in God's conscious mind that implies you know I think God is transcendent and eternal and infinitely Blissful and knowledgeable and from God's perspective what we're experiencing is the passage of time God perceives each point simultaneously so to say God is some kind of a neurotic weakling or something I'm not saying that but we are neurotic weaklings and we're reflections of God so in some sense we're manifesting that aspect of God and uh so just taking care of your own own psychological health is serving God because you're a part of God and you want to make the god healthy to help God's Eternal Health manifest we experience it as a dynamic process God experiences it as a complete fact but that doesn't mean it doesn't CA take sacrifice somehow the eternally fixed reality of God's Perfection requires the heat of tapas of sacrifice that's the word generated by the asceticism of a yogi creates this this psychic heat which can be used for for doing anything a lot of the Demons will generate so much Tapas that Brahma has to come down and say stop doing that you're shaking the foundations of the universe what do you what do I got to give you to get you to stop okay I want to be I want to live forever well I can't do that only Vishnu can do that okay well I don't want to be able to be killed in the day or the night on the land or the sea there's stories like that that was the story of Oran yakashi pu created so much heat that he was shaking the universe but that heat is like the the circulatory system of God's Consciousness and when you just concentrate on perfecting yourself that that takes pain psychoanalysis confronting Your Shadow then dealing to the gy yeah the much more difficult anima or animous projections is painful and well you know well why should I bother why don't I just live my life on the mediocre Zone and just kind of fade out because who cares you know why put forth such an effort to become individuated to achieve the wholeness through the union of who's it going to benefit other than me and I don't care that much and I would say it's your duty as an absolute part and parcel of the Supreme self to do that and you're helping the overall circulatory system of God's Consciousness maintain equilibrium in health so you're helping everyone else even if all you do is focus on your own neurosis and then if you have a vocation to do something heroic on a grander scale then do that but it doesn't really matter it's whatever the Supreme self wants you to do and in my life you know as you said if you meditate on the mysterious tremendum you better get on your knees because you're right yeah you know I almost died when I was 18 right after high school and went body surfing and a storm drain a culvert where the you know the storm water this was in Bethesda Maryland and um with two of my friends we got on the news we were on three different news stations and we got sucked in we couldn't get out into these big pipes and my friends got sucked in but I held on to the edge and my head was like up that and the water shooting over my head it ripped my shorts off my feet were like doing flapping in the current it was intensely powerful wow and I considered sawing the bottom half of my body off because I'm like otherwise I'm going to drown I'm going to die and I'm like n there's no way you can do that I remember sitting holding on like that and a bird landed on a electric wire that was over the road like I could see cars driving by who couldn't see me wow and the bird was like just carrying on with its day I'm like the universe just doesn't care to me this is infinitely disturbing what's about to happen which is the end of all sentients even though I believed in God I went to Catholic School but at that point when I was about to die in my mind I was crushed by the realization that the universe doesn't care at all that what is so important to you your own life with which you are so infatuated is means nothing you might as well be a rat the bird everything's carrying on as if you never existed and then I went to college and started learning about philosophy I think that Terror yeah made me more it's a good motivator yeah to philosophy right so I know the terror he's talking about my friend Tom aage um talk about did your friends survive you said they got sucked in we all survived okay thank God yeah one of my other friend uh got shot all the way down even farther like a mile down but we went through the pipe oh yeah and then there's no air and I'm trying to get air out of the little rivets and the I'm smashing my head oh it was it was like the whole light at the end of the tunnel I literally saw a light refracted up at the end of this dark tunnel it was like a prep a preparatory scenario for me yeah that's a BTO preview yeah but the point is after that you know I got really into philosophy and and theology but I ask God I say I don't care I I know how horrifying existence is and I really don't care about anything other than what you want me to do what else really matters you're Eternal I'm an eternal part of you this body's not Eternal it doesn't really matter I don't care whatever it is just let me know what it is so I can work on it and I know I'll imperfectly strive to achieve whatever vocation but please just bless me with your instruction so that I have a meaning in life and I feel like I'm serving you because I feel like that's the only meaningful life and that's what Ernest Becker was saying from an agnostic perspective he's saying whether there's a God or not that is the human psyche which is why that book struck me so so deeply I'm like I agree I do believe in God but I agree that we all need that belief and um and just serving God so the class immortality and the unreality of death that's kind of my hero's journey that I'm taking and I invite people to step along here's my step-by-step evidence for why you should believe in God why it's plausible to believe in in God why psychologically you need to believe in it whether it's plausible or not um but anyway I was rambling there for a little while no that's that's an amazing story man and and it does motivate like I I've never had a full-blown near-death experience but I actually had a s a pretty major surgery when I was five and oh wow I I don't feel traumatized by that but I always wonder if there's like some subconscious uh element that came you know just coming close to death being completely you know having the blood taken out of your body and you're heart pumped for you and everything like you know I got to imagine that does something you know and you know I mean really I have I carry no conscious Trauma from it you know I I I have like vague memories of the hospital and like you know P painful moments and stuff like that but right kids have this I I just I remember having this resilient sort of you know you have this trust in the doctors and your parents and they're telling you this is what we have to do and you're just kind of like okay we'll do that then yeah and then you just right go through it and then you go on with your life and that's what happened to me but um but yeah I always wonder if maybe that's where this like ceaseless desire to do you know dig into these big questions and you know have these conversations for for year after year in a way we're talking about the Horizon I can there are very few things in my life I can see myself just doing until the end of my days and having these conversations is absolutely one of them because why wouldn't I want to you know it's like it's cathartic it's interesting it connects me to people like you it introduces me to new ideas I get to introduce other people to new ideas especially in a time where we feel so spiritually listless and thirsty it's like man like why wouldn't I just keep doing this but but uh I think that's why you're good at it cuz you're like of course this is what I'm going to it's your natural function um and and I bet your five-year-old experience brush with death probably did like how you said it must have done something I don't feel it but it yeah stands the reason that it would have had some kind of at least psychological effect uh it probably did you're they were making your heartbeat for you I wonder if your heart stopped beating for a second well I actually I don't I don't know for certain everything they did but I had surgery on part of my uh ascending aorta so oh wow obviously blood can't be pumping through there you know while they're while they're doing that so I I don't fully know how they would have I mentioned that because the whole near-death experience happens when your heart stops true yes and when the heart stops pop out goes the psyche looking down but not not everybody remembers that but some do but I did not have that experience to my knowledge right even if you don't remember it you might have had that experience and you just don't remember it like you have dreams that you don't remember and if your heart stopped it's conceivable that you had a near-death experience as a 5-year-old then forgot it but your subconscious was like oh man the past present and the future right at the Horizon of the go we live in an illusion yeah it's it's quite possible man it's quite possible one to digress from this even though I'm deeply interested in your death experiences and and by the way there's there's academic work out there I talked to a guy um I'm gonna forget his name now but he's a psychiatrist and he he wrote a book about near-death experiences he is a tenured professor somewhere and has studied near-death experiences exhaustively for like decades um so there's a lot of evidence there's a lot of story I'll flash his book up on the screen here um but anyway well there well there's Raymond Moody there's Michael saone yeah yeah I I talked to I talked to Moody in the early days of third eye drops actually wow which is yeah this was years a like I don't know six years ago now but um yeah it was before YouTube unfortunately but yeah he's an absolute Legend um really really interesting guy I'd love is he I'm hoping he's still around and healthy I know he was older they just put out a documentary movie after death okay that he was he was in he yeah he's he's older for sure but they were talking about the beginnings of the academic study of near-death experiences it was him and this other guy Michael Sab who's a cardiologist and some other people I know the University of Virginia does um that's that's the guy I think it might be um oh doc Grayson Dr Bruce Grayson that's oh yeah okay yeah and I think that he might be the guy from University of Virginia but maybe there's multiple I don't know but yeah the idea that this is all just a bunch of nonsense yeah I don't think many people are this deep into this podcast thinking this but there's a lot I mean there's been a ton of evidence compiled um on near-death experiences and a large percentage of people who Cardiac Arrest have the experience I think it's like maybe 30% or something like that I can't I might be getting their number wrong but it's not uncommon my my is a nurse she's retired now but I asked her about it because she deals with you know deals with people who are dying and and in trauma and she's like yeah it's pretty common people do talk about it and it's clearly there in the literature um Carl Young and Plato so um it's hugely important you know this this guy Michael Sab I'm going to mention this one point quickly because it's so important to holographic String Theory oh yeah okay which it says that any information any threedimensional objects in any three-dimensional volume of space you see is recorded at the two-dimensional surface area so that everything in this room is recorded at every point of the walls and the ceiling and the floor of the room but if you approach it then the information recedes to the next concentric boundary which would be the atmosphere of Earth but this guy Michael sabom this this doctor who was at the Forefront of near-death experience studies for him he says what got me into this thing was the autoscopic experience of looking down at yourself and then describing what you saw during your operation which is then verified by the doctors and the nurses he says that's the thing that I focus on the whole hurling down a tunnel toward a point of light and the the you know point of no return he goes that I'm not so interested in because it can't be empirically verified by eyewitnesses but these autoscopic visions of yourself can be and that correlates very well with holographic String Theory why do people always say oh I was looking down at myself from the ceiling or I had a friend of mine who was in a coma and he says I was looking at my body from a panoramic 360 degree view from the ceiling and the walls like somehow or another yeah and that if the psyche is the singularity and and we are the source of SpaceTime and all the information in the volume of SpaceTime is recorded at every surface area that correlates really nicely with that very recurring um that that that piece of looking down at yourself but anyway very much yeah and I got to bring this up again I may have mentioned this last time but just in case they didn't um did I ever tell you about obviously the myth of er from Plato's Republic is the most well-known um platonic near-death experience may even be like the first prototypical near-death experience captured that we have and um though there may be some Eastern stuff I don't know but anyway the C the KA upani shot is a near-death experience very Plato's fadis oh cool cool yeah the Chariot and the horses you talked about that last time yes yes that's what's that called the Katha upanishad Katha upad it's a Brahman boy I was like a five-year-old boy we were talking about that earlier um naias his father anyway they had an argument about his father trying to feat the brahin by giving them sick old cows and he ended up in the Underworld and he talked to yamaraj the god of death oh yeah yeah yeah and yamaraj mentioned the Chariot pulled by five horses instead of in uh the faders it's two horses the courageous element and the erotic element as you described in the cathu panish shot it's the five senses those are the five horses and they have desires and if you can train them properly you can get out to the Horizon of the cosmos and see Vishnu otherwise they'll pull you hither and thither off the paths very similar I've read scholar yeah but the myth of ER is a near- death experience well yeah then the cop that upani shot is um but they're all very similar but the M ver I saw your video that you made about that oh yeah yeah yeah the spindle of necessity and the three Fates and and the the threads of Destiny yeah so there's there's another one that has an amazingly Eerie um parallel to the near-death experiences we were talking about with people who Cardiac Arrest or float over the body and have panoramic view um and it's from plutar the um later platonist teacher and plutar is best known for writing uh on the lives of like the you know famous people of antiquity and whatever but he has other um many other writings and one of them is is like a near-death experience story and I don't remember the name of this character but he's again this kind of this like Shady shyy Guy and um an oracle comes into play at some point and the Oracle says something like you'll be a better man in death or something like that like something very eerie and then he ends up having this catastrophic fall where he like hits his head and like just screws his neck up really bad and then just at that moment like you know his whatever uh I think they call it like panuma or okima panuma shoots up out of his body and he has what kind of perception a 360° perception and the text talks about how we actually only have one sense but when we go into a body it's like divided up essentially into you know these five different um senses but when the but when the panuma leaves the body you see the you have a truer sense of things and it's like everything all at once it's like it's it's more visual it's you can't even say that it's like anything because it's the it's the Proto sense you know that all other senses come from so it's like everything and then he has instead of a you know a descension he has an Ascension sort of death where he goes through um you know the The Ether and everything else and he sees the planets and their true like luminous incarnated God forms and uh he sees yeah it's it's a crazy really cool story it's told on an episode I'll I'll try to remember to link it of the secret history of Western esotericism podcast um and I've listened to that episode like four or five times because it's just so interesting and it's yeah it feels like it's one of those things where it's packed with a lot of just a lot of stuff I could never prove but just some whenever I hear it I'm just like oh there's something there's something to this um yeah well that the idea of the information conservation at the surface area that's so huge for near-death experiences especially that very typical looking down at the ceiling or from the walls in the ceiling and holographic String Theory just by itself that's very interesting yeah but when you link it in with the psyche equal Singularity equation and and the whole here's another big correlation between near-death experiences and physics is the light at the end of the tunnel I don't I think we talked about this last time but according to special relativity which Einstein developed in 1905 if you could travel at close to the speed of light he thought nothing could travel no massive object could travel at the speed of a massless photon because it would gain kinetic energy as it got faster which would make it more massive because of E equals MC s because energy is equivalent to mass so as you accelerate any mass of thing no matter how tin it accumulates more and more energy and becomes equivalently more and more massive which requires more energy to accelerate it further until you get by the law of diminishing returns you'd need an infinite amount of energy to accelerate it any faster he says that's impossible so no massive object can go the speed of light but and if it did it would exit space and time and and and that is what happens inside a black hole but he said if you were the at least the mathematics of his equation say if you if you were traveling a close to the speed of light what you would see is all of the light in the universe even light directly behind you get pulled and condensed into a single point at the end of a dark tunnel that's what it would appear from your perspective and according to general relativity the gravitational force is equivalent to acceleration so if you are inside a black hole looking out you would see all of the light in the universe even the light directly behind the black hole condensed in a single point at the end of a dark tunnel now near-death experiences that's what they say I Rose above my body I was looking down at my body from this you know the light fixture of the operating room and then I'm floating above and I'm at the outer atmosphere of Earth where Carl Jung said he experienced this black Hindu in his big BL Rock black rock Temple and then a lot of times they talk about then I'm hurdling through space through a dark tunnel planets are wizen past me and there's this infinitely bright all loving point of light at the end that they take to be God so if the psyche and this is bringing it back to what Hoffman was talking about where we have the headset and Kant was talking about space and time are not empirically observable things outside of us they're the categories of our own mind so when you're out of your body your psyche it's still in the the mental body which is space and time itself that's a mental projection we are space time if space and time are the category ories of thought the lenses of cognition that's that is us and when we die oh I'm rising I'm at an accelerating rate just like SpaceTime does it expands at an gradually accelerating rate which becomes exponential people I say experience what it is to be SpaceTime when their psyches leave their bodies during a near-death experience yeah and as you accelerate you're you see what relativity theory predicts you would see if you could start traveling at the speed of light and the singularity at the end of that dark tunnel it would be the singularity because all of the light in the universe is contained in it so you're going back to the beginning of time you're going back to the big bang and people that's what the physics tells us and the people who experience that say yes and that point of Infinite Flight is also a point of infinite love and knowledge and it is me and it is everyone else so that's just another really clear correlation between parapsychology and 20th Century physics that makes all all these things more believable definitely definitely one thing going way back in the conversation now but this is reminding me of this that I wanted to pick your brain on or or see how you square this circle is if Consciousness and psyche you know I guess this would be in like a capital P psyche sense has to do with essentially a black hole a singularity how do you how do you or or do you I guess square that idea with a more idealist kind of POV like like how how do you get a sort of all pervasive Consciousness from a concentrated point of Consciousness you see what I'm saying and like from a like like a tus perspective one of the very first things that happens in the um what do they call it the the the the the space in which the demiurge creates they they have a name for it I'm forgetting what it is but it's like the it's not The Cauldron it's not the the receptacle or something like that oh that yeah the mother and receptacle yeah that's the Horizon of the cosos so one of the first things that happens if you remember is there's this um metaphor of like cutting fabric and like stretching Fabric and that fabric is psyche it's Soul so there's this idea that it's it's like it's the sort of substrate like structure of of everything and it's like you know this is where the the animamundi the world Soul comes from and it's kind of like in everything but then there but then of course like they later on they get into like individual souls and like they talk about mixing the same substance with less uh less potency or less um you know it's it's a degraded basically like by the time you get to a human soul versus like the soul it's a more degraded soul but it's still the same thing lower proof alcohol sort sort of thing um Mad Dog 2020 get down here yeah we're basically Malt Liquor uh Souls compared to like absolute or ever clear or whatever um but um but yeah so do do you see that point as like this emanating Source type thing or or do you see it as as that yeah what what are your thoughts on that yeah the so in the timeus the soul and we talked about this last time is described as being in the central point point that somehow encompasses the outermost sphere like being stretched out there and at every point in between that's the specific and I I remember you even put up the quote from the timeus where that's how the soul the soul is described but how can there be one soul and yet all of us individual souls and another point I bring up all the time is Robert Bruce we who wrote this article on correlating hegel's concept of the absolute idea to a gravitational singular it at the big bang and inside black holes okay he also brought in liveness as principle of the identity of indiscernibles and he said according to that principle if you cannot point out a difference between two things they are identical now all singularities are structurally identical because they're all mathematical points they have no structure it's a mathematical point a point of zero volume and infinite density but they appear in different points of SpaceTime in the center of black holes in the center of galaxies string throughout galaxies at each point of the quantum vacuum and at the big bang and at each point of the Horizon of the cosmos so he was saying yes they do appear in different points in SpaceTime but each Singularity is itself outside SpaceTime because of the physics of infinite gravity which is equivalent to infinite acceleration and the faster you move through space according to special relativity the slower your clock would appear to be moving from a stationary observer's perspective from your perspective it wouldn't be any different time would flow normally but from someone standing still looking at you and looking at a clock on your spaceship for example would see the second hand moving more and more slowly as you approach the speed of light it would stop so the point is infinite gravity or infinite acceleration is outside of space and time it's where the laws of physics break down so you can't differentiate one singularity from another by their different locations in SpaceTime and therefore in that respect they're all one they're IND discernably one now there are differences subjectively I'm having a different subjective experience than you are so this brings us back to that ainia beta beta tataa inconceivably simultaneously we're all one and we're all unique and autonomous and God is that one self who can distill everyone else's unique sub objective experience into a unique subjective experience of God's Own yeah and then we're also all one in the respect of the Brahman the impersonal nature of the Soul so we're all one as we're all part of one supreme person even though we're all unique individual persons and we're also all one in the sense that the Supreme person and all the individual persons are also simultaneously merged in this impersonal ocean of potential being which is the kind of the ocean of waves of probability side of reality so how can we all be individual psyches experiencing our own thing and yet somehow all be one those those are ways that the unity and plurality of the Soul can be explained that's a pretty good answer that's probably the better one of the better answers I've ever heard at least yeah I I got that from from Robert Bruce we I was like wow that that's awesome that's for the psyche equal Singularity equation yeah yeah livess is principle of the identity of indiscernibles is this missing link to connect it to the to the Mystic philosophy of the Soul yeah that's really interesting and liet himself was I know some kind of monist I I don't know the specifics of liet liet monism yeah monad monadology was his theology monad also has no extension in space monads have no windows they can't see out and the fact that we can interact with each other is because God the Supreme monad is having our independent hallucinations correlate with each other perfectly this is pre-ordained harmony but his idea of a monad is very similar to a gravitational singularity yeah and the other the other fascinating thing you have to say when livets comes up is that he contemporarily but separately create like came up with Calculus at the same time as Newton right that's just one of the just yeah one of those mindblowing uh examples of parallel thinking and speaking of well at least you and I were talking about tarnis there's some part I think of psyche and Singularity um I believe it's psyche and Singularity and not Passion of the western mind where he talks about just all of these like parallel thinking examples and is all occurring like within the same tiny tiny fraction of time and it's Absolut oh one of them is the theory of evolution by natural selection um there's like several different people that were essentially coming up with the exact same thing at the exact same time it's crazy um that and by the way that that his book is Cosmos and psyche you you mention psyche and singular oh sorry yeah Cosmos and psyche yeah yeah here's here's that book from Richard Taris yes I'm working my way through this Beast right now yeah that's a great a great uh yeah he talks about the astrological synchronicities yes so this was a very important Point Carl Young was getting interested in near the end of his life right so synchronicities which you and I experienced before even we had our first conversation right yeah and I love that you that note that you sent me by the way that you went uh yeah if you want to tell that story it's funny well yeah you you you sent me an email and said hey I was just at the gym and uh I was listening to a podcast about you equating the psyche with the black hole and then as soon as the podcast ended on the gym soundtrack was the um the song uh never ever by All Saints this British girl band was like a rhythm and blues band and she said never ever have I ever felt so low you going take out of this black hole yep so that was a perfect fit I went and listened to that song after you mentioned it and then someone in the in the um you know the notes the comments who's here in 2024 and then some some lady said I'm here because of the thirde eyye drops podcast and and then I put in me too I love that I love that that's so cool yeah that was a great that was a great syn I had a synchronicity involved at the same time that same day it was like the second in a string where the rard Vagner song Ride of the Valkyries was correlated with this this friend of mine I told her she's she's like a like a I said you know you remind me of like she's blonde hair and she's tall and she's gregarious and and um I said you remind me of like uh an angel from the uh Vikings like who would come and like if you if you fight and die on the battlefield then then you get to be with one of these W that's quite a compliment that was a compliment and so I'm driving up or down the street and then I turn on the radio or the radio's on and I listen to classical music we and DC it's the public classical music and just as I got to her street it was [Music] like so yeah and then I said oh that's a cool synchron City mhm but then like a couple of weeks later I'm driving back up and I got to the stoplight just before her block and it was the same thing rard vogner's R of valky started again just right there that's wild and then I got home and I looked at my email and you said hey man I just had the synchronicity with this music about the uh so that was like wow that was a cool little string of synchronicities yeah but to get back to synchronicity with tarnis Carl Jung said there's two methods or Avenues of empirical evidence for synchronicities which are just Avenues towards his idea of the archetype of the self so the Supreme archetype of the self individuation is coming to realize that we are all one with the archetype of the self who's the archetype of wholeness through the union of opposites we're guided there by mandala imagery and um so he said if mandala imagery is the psychological equivalent of the archetype of the self then synchronicity is the parapsychological equivalent and because synchronicity every synchronicity no matter what the particular symbolism of the synchronicity is they all point back to the archetype of the self because they all imply a union of the overarching categories of opposites mind and matter it's when your meaning perceiving mind somehow seems to synchronize with physically unconnected events happening in the material world like for example thinking or listening to a podcast about black holes in the psyche and then hearing that song randomly played at the same time about that and Jung said yeah synchronicities happen a lot and everyone's experience them but they're not mut you can't verify them you have to take someone's word on it for the most part not all the time such as the synchronicity you had with the Roses I watched that video right right yeah so there's two people right and it's believable but is there any publicly accessible realm of synchronicities that regularly occur that we could empirically confirm and that's astrology says Carl Yong and near-death experiences he says these are the two Avenues we should take to acquire empirical evidence physical diseases and catastrophes like near-death experiences and astrology and by the way Plato ended the Republic with the near-death experience of of the soldier named ER and Robin Waterfield who wrote The Oxford edition of the Republic he says there is clear astrological language in the myth of oh interesting because those spheres around the central Earth are the plan right right right yeah and the and the passage of the Soul down through each archetypal sphere as a planetary sphere yeah right and he and this guy Robin Waterfield was saying the language he was using is the same language that the astrologers were using and I was just browsing through Cosmos and psyche last night in this morning before our conversation because I knew you were going to be talking to Richard tarnes and um so um oh shoot what was I just thinking about the um well talking about um uh synchronicities and astrology and how it ties into um yeah the the planets in the myth of Earth yeah and and also Yung yung's interest in astrology but then well yeah he said this this would be a good empirical observation for as synchronicities on a grand scale that everybody could go back and look at and that is what tarnis did in Cosmos and psyche yeah it's it's crazy he did that very exhaustively and I'm I'm still definitely uh digesting it for sure I don't know if I'll be able to digest it before I talk to him but that's a big book um but it's that is what Yung was looking for because and and tus is like I'm going to give you the information that will enable you to understand the basics of astrology I think it's important to note that the horoscope within which you do your astrological calculations is a perfect mandala with Earth in the central point yeah all of the other planets superimposed at the outermost circumference and and just the correlations between the movements of the planets and he was he you know he makes a big point of saying it's not a physical energy that's radiating from the planets and affecting life here on Earth it's just correlated like a the example he uses is a clock just because the hands on the clock say two o'clock doesn't mean those little hands on the clock are forcing cos the cosmos to be two o'clock it's just they synchronized and the planets their movements each planet represents a certain Arc tiple atmosphere like for example Saturn represents the atmosphere of gravity and constriction and discipline and darkness they all they have a positive side and they all have like a shadow side yeah Saturn's like the hardest one to to talk about because it's like so big and so dark and moves slowly and is like the the archon of time and salt and unchanging unforgiving discipline and conservatism but it's also the senx and the wise man and it's just like right it's like that him and yeah I don't know Saturn is the one that's always like the hardest for me to process yeah that's the the Saturn return well here's some here's something I think that would be cool to tie up the psyche equal Singularity equation with astrology and we'll focus on Saturn because it's about black holes I was I wrote an email to the group chat for a the um the PCC program where I studied with tarnis philosophy cosmology and Consciousness at the California Institute of integral studies it's where I got the PHD it's where I did the dissertation that became the book psyche and singularity and we have this group chat on an email and I put out this hypothesis about the Saturn Pluto conjunction which we experienced from 2018 to like 2020 Saturn is death and constriction and gravity and darkness and Pluto is the god of death and resurrection and it lends Titanic power and revolutionary power to anything it touches and when Saturn and Pluto get together in these hard alignments there's softer alignments which are 30 Dees or 60 Dees and 120 degrees and then the hard alignments are the 90 Dee increments so conjunction I said okay if Saturn is gravitas and downward vector and darkness and destruction and Pluto amplifies that well a black hole is a point that constricts everything and crushes everything in total Blackness and it's Amplified to Infinity it's literally a point of infinite gravity so if tarn's theory is correct then we should be able to see the evolution of the theory of black holes correlate with the hard alignments of the Saturn Pluto alignment it would be kind of a test wow because if anything would embody that archetype it would be a black hole the downward Vector of darkness and contraction and gra literally the spirit of gravity he said Saturn is like what ni calls the spirit of gravity itself so the spirit is the archetype of gravity a point of infinite gravity is Arc it's an arc tiple thing it's not a material thing anymore so I went back and I looked at the history and sure enough there was a conjunction of Saturn and Pluto um in 195 and when general relativity was discovered and when Carl Schwarz Shield derived the idea of the gravitational singularity from the gravitational field equations 1915 1916 tanus gives a pretty w wide range for what he will consider a conjunct like 15 degrees and 20 degrees if you want to push it to the penumbra and then another um Saturn Pluto conjunction was 1939 this was more exact when it was closer to Zer degrees exact September 1st 1939 was the day Hitler invaded Poland it was the beginning of World War II but it was also the day that Robert Oppenheimer who ended World War II with the atomic bomb at the end of World War II at the be very first day of World War II he published a paper with another with one of his students named Snider called uh con continuous gravitational contraction and it was explaining the physics the Nuclear Physics of what would happen inside a star when it burned through its nuclear Fuel and he said it would contract into a point of gravity with such Singularity that you know it would create a what we now call a black hole so it was the first description of how a star would actually die and become a point of infinite gravity and darkness a black hole it was the same day the beginning of World War II and it was during a Saturn Pluto conjunction almost exact so it's just good evidence for this astrological synchronicities the the point of infinite gravity according to tarn's Theory would AR typically correlate with the Saturn Pluto archetypes and they would be in these hard alignments during the historical periods when the human psyche develops the understanding of these Arc typy correlated Concepts and in the be and in World War I the idea of a gravitational singularity was formed by Carl Schwarz Shield who was fighting in the trenches of World War I as a German artillery officer and there was a Saturn Pluto conjunction going on there and then in World War II on the very day it began was oppenheimer's paper which was the first really sophisticated paper on the physics of a black hole and the Saturn Pluto conjunction was there so there's a that was just one example and this book Cosmos and psyche is filled with historical examples yeah it's insane and they develop as these alignments go out of alignment and come back in the historical themes pick back up it's a really fascinating way of looking at it yeah it is and it's one of those books where if you're going to be like a Believer or a skeptic or un exited it's kind of one of those things where if if you're going to talk about it in a sophisticated way you've got to go to the most sophisticated people talking about it and this is it I mean this is like the most historically rigorous and you know just informed position that you can possibly take on it so if you're going to try to take it down don't take down newspaper horoscopes any idiot with a like an average IQ can do that if you want to go after after the sophisticated arguments first read some tarnis read some Yung and and then and then go for it but that that's that's why I think if you want to not even Steelman it if you just want to give it its Fair shake like that's that's what I think you one must do um because yeah it is it is very compelling and very much mind-altering and epistemically nuclear when you when you're confronted with all the evidence that he provides it's it's really hard to dismiss as a bunch of coincidence at least for me um man this has been a a wide ranging there there's so many things we didn't get to we didn't really talk much about Hegel um and his connections um we we can if if if there's a if there's a path that's easy to get into um well I think I think there is from this with astrology I don't I'm putting out a paper now the second in a series called convening a constitutional convention on AI when AI came out when chat G pt4 came out a year ago Sam Alman who was the you know the the president of open AI he's he was on a Lex fredman podcast and he said his platonic idea his platonic idea to have some yeah he was using the language which was triggering all my my yeah platonic ideal yeah my platonic ideal would be if all the nations got together and had sort of a constitutional convention like we had in America in 1789 to lay out how we want to address incorporating AI because it's such radical such a radical leap in technology that it it could kill the human species is another thing you know he signed this this open letter saying that we should take the potential Extinction of our species from AI as seriously as we take the potential Extinction from nuclear war um and pandemics so I picked up his theme and I was saying let's have a constitutional convention to discuss how to incorporate AI into our American system with an amendment to the Constitution to establish a national AI system that could help us fulfill our primary mandate in the Constitution which is to form a more perfect union and when I'm saying more perfect union I'm thinking archetype of the self the archetype of the union of of AR type of wholeness through the union of opposites which I equate with the psyche equal Singularity equation and I bring Hegel into it in the second paper which is the subtitle is Hegel Yung and individuation for the USA and and I'm saying for Hegel history has a purpose God has a purpose for world history and God's reason guides the evolution of Nations towards that final purpose and his his purpose is freedom but the way he describes freedom is just a synonym for the way Carl Jung describes individuation and it's having knowledge of God God manifests initially as the absolute idea and then the absolute idea manifests is nature and spirit and nature is the unconscious manifestation of God and spirit the aspect of the absolute spirit that manifests as the human spirit can help synthesize God's Consciousness with the unconscious nature because we're a materially embodied spirit and if we develop Nations based on knowledge of what spirit is and what God is that's a free state and the way Hegel describes the idea and spirit is very similar to a gravitational singularity this is where I got into Robert Bruce wear he wrote a paper comparing hegel's absolute idea to the singularity of the Big Bang because Hegel says in history of philosophy the idea is the central point the source of Light which is also the periphery and it doesn't go outside of itself it's self-contained so there's pretty clear correlation with a big bang There the Central Point that's the source of light that exists at each point of the Horizon yeah and and I would say the platonic one as well it's it's I mean we should say that Hegel just to contextualize it for people probably most people know hegel's this German philosopher he's an idealist he's very much in the platonic line of thought where a lot of his fundamental I don't know if I'd say hypothesis but ideas directly align with with platonic ideas like the um his absolute idea is very similar to the one or the form of the good even that description of like radiating central point of light that's very similar to what the what Socrates said when was like I don't really want to give an answer but if I did think in terms of the sun you know he tells the whole thing about how the Sun is just this radiating thing that all it does is just completely give life it's its whole nature is to just give forever and ever and ever until it burns out um so yeah a very very similar oh yeah the ABS hegel's absolute idea is very similar to the idea of the good the form of the good it's the it is the archetype of this visible ible son it gives birth to the visible sun which is the source of light in the empirically observable world and it's the source of Truth and intelligence and all the other absolute ideas in the intelligible world and the physical forms mirror the absolute Arc tiple forms um so for Hegel God's will for history on Earth is to develop Nations through a dialectical process gradually over time that that comes to the conclusion that we're all manifestations of this idea that we're all radiating from this idea that we're all bound to return to the idea in his lectures on the philosophy of History which is where he really gets into history and God's purpose for history he says you know he breaks it down there's God's will God has a purpose God's reason which is another word for the idea guides history God manifests the idea that breaks into nature and spirit and then the best way to learn what spirit is is to look at its direct opposite which is matter and he says the essence of matter is gravity and matter is made of unconnected Parts it's compounded of separate parts and they gravitationally strive for Unity in a center outside themselves if they were to achieve it they would abolish themselves because they would become their opposite which is ideal Unity matter is inherently disperate and broken into compound its compounded of Parts but it strives for its opposite its Essence is gravity at the beginning of that argument he said spirit is the direct opposite of matter spirit is free because it's also compelled toward a center but it's compelled toward the center that is itself and so he's saying to learn what spirit is is freedom and the best way to learn what spirit is is to look at its mirror symmetry with matter so matter is striving for its opposite which is spirit and if it was to do that it would attain ideal Unity so if you put that argument that Hegel has in the context of a black hole which Robert Bruce wear said is a valid thing to do all the parts the bits of matter that fall into a black hole are compelled by gravity toward a point outside themselves a center outside themselves in which they can achieve ideal unity and that's the singularity The Singularity is a point that's Contracting into itself at an infinite rate it's a point of infinite density and if history is if the goal God has for history is to develop a state based on that knowledge then I'm saying a state based on the knowledge of the psychic equal Singularity equation would satisfy hegel's requirements for a free state and so the papers that I'm writing out and I put up on academia. you this one that I'm about to put out just the introduction to it says that we if we establish a national AI system that could be like an artificial eye of the soul that Socrates says you need to open the eye of the soul to the idea of the Good by studying the mathematical mirror symmetries between the arcal ideas and the physics of SpaceTime especially as manifested in astronomy and music that's the cave allegory and the divided line hologra graic string theory is the ultimate Fusion of astronomy and music because it describes everything as these vibrating strings and the particles are the notes on that string that's Muk kaku's metaphor so establish a national AI System Program it with a psyche equal Singularity equation in the context of holographic String Theory yion psychology and hegel's philosophy because the purpose of the human species is to have a state that is focused on this knowledge of our Unity with the absolute idea and I bring in um tarnis which in the introduction I don't but I intend to bring it in something the national AI system could do to help us open the eye of our souls to the idea of the good is to study the historical synchronicities that are revealed by AR tipal astrology because to know the idea of the good which I'm equating with Jung's archetype of wholeness through the union of opposites you have to study the relationships between the opposite fields of psyche and matter or Cosmos and psyche and the arc tiple symbolic correlations of the movements of the planets and the The Arc typal atmosphere of life on Earth studying those is like looking at the reflections of these archetypes in the material world so in the cave allegory when the prisoner comes out of the cave he can't look at the sun directly but can see Its Reflection in puddles of water and he can see the planets and stars in in puddles of water and you can see the sun reflected in the moon and and the planets at night so we can see the idea of the good reflected in the planetary archetypes and the way they are correlated with the historical development of Nations on Earth and I'm arguing that if hegel's correct the goal of history is to be aware of with with Carl Young's equation psyche equals highest intensity in the smallest space which I'm saying is psyche equals Singularity so that's kind of uh taking all these ideas to a really crazy wow extreme and what would be the Practical possibilities while I'm saying let's update the Constitution so you know I don't I don't I don't like to be too ambitious but we'll establish AI system that that's mind-blowing and I mean it's yeah it sounds far flung I guess but man do we need something like that like there's no guard rails on what we're doing like technologically it's just technology for the sake of technology has been enough and then we're left to epistemically cope with it and make sense of it while we're in like the wreckage wake of whatever it's doing and we got to change something you know I I don't think and what I like about that too is I don't think that that would stifle Innovation you know I think that that would give a goal it would give some kind of a at least a directive in in a strangely platonic way because it's like there's a it's it's it's like an ideal to strive toward that in some way is not attainable right like we're not going to achieve you like like I was talking about before like the par the Paradox of the arrow right is like we're not going to achieve this state I'm sorry everyone in this lifetime of a fundamental unity and recognition of that Unity but what better goal is there to strive toward and to reach for and like yeah right that's that was my point yeah like the goal wasn't oh we're all going to become Saints all of a sudden but it will help direct us towards wholeness through the union of opposites it will give us a goal to help the opposing sides of the culture War it will incline them towards wholeness and unity because it'll be F also it'll be in occurring all of the legislative debates will be occurring within this mandala model of the psyche which is the inside out black hole universe according to Yung that would have an unconscious effect of inclining the psyches towards wholeness through the union of opposites because that's the the natural symbolic effect of a mandala but yeah I agree with what you're saying it's not going to happen but it's a good goal to have yeah and we need to do something radical yeah we need an e that we can all agree on like that's and that's one of the few things man it's like it's it's something like that or something like a namaste sort of state statement just I recognize that you are also a spiritual being that's going through a process and and just could if we could somehow establish that as the ground level of every interaction like that's a great ethos to ascribe to to to strive toward that what you're describing here is a great ethos to strive toward um and achieving them perfectly almost isn't the point it's to it's to have it in the back of your mind right it's like it's like to have the directionality and that in and of itself is massively important y well hey man this has been another Sensational one I can honestly say that two hours and 20 minutes has flown by other than me trying to skillfully hit the mute button so you can't hear the the chainsaws outside because I may or may not have edited this out but there's like tree work going on like right outside this window and for the most part it's been uh okay to cope with but I guess will see uh in the edit yeah I haven't heard any of it fantastic well it's been a lot of fun man I'll Point everybody toward your book toward your course uh and and let's let's do it again for sure oh yeah one more point about the course um so it's out on YouTube and there's about 18 hours and in two weeks on May 14th we'll have a multiple choice test that I'm using chat GPT for to help me create I thought it would be lot easier but I got to do a lot of my own personal interactions it's not as genius as I would hope it is but it'll be over 100 questions so the course is free on YouTube and we're selling this class um that will help just cement these ideas and you get a certificate that oh I took this class which means that I understand what I'm talking about and then another aspect of this is essays people can write on how to incorporate the knowledge from the class immortality and the unreality of death into their own life and then I'll respond personally to those so I just wanted to mention that yeah I didn't know my mythopoetic psychospiritual scientific sense making was gonna have a test at the end thanks for letting me know now better not pay for that D thanks brother okay see you Mike

Channel: THIRD EYE DROPS

Views: 78,747

Keywords: philosophy podcast, simulation theory, carl jung, carl jung synchronicity, consciousness explained, science podcast, carl jung synchronicity explained, synchronicity, Donald Hoffman, donald hoffman consciousness, psychology podcast, spirituality podcast, greek philosophy, plato, platonism, ancient civilizations, carl jung archetypes, timothy owen desmond, hegel philosophy

Id: 6KaxBLKimho

Length: 145min 9sec (8709 seconds)

Published: Thu May 09 2024