Experiencing the Paranormal with Chris Bledsoe, UFOs & the Esoteric | Mollie Adler

you have to understand because if I were in the the viewer shoes like again I've been there like I I wouldn't believe it and also I didn't believe it we witnessed something that that people would kill to see we went back and laid down in in bed we couldn't even talk we were just literally like looking at each other what in the welcome back to the transmission my friends I've had some strange experiences over the years I have surfed the high weirdness in my living room in the rainforest of Peru even had a world melting whoopsie or two that got really intense when I didn't plan it to and although I am extremely open to the notion that such states do reveal genuine novelty and wisdom psychos spiritually perhaps even literally I must of course admit that I just don't know and that I have only had such experiences of high strangeness such experiences of uh world melting under the influence of mind altering molecules though from where I'm sitting the world uh consensus reality itself quote unquote is pretty much brimming with constant Miracles so all of that said I do have to go to third parties for the truly highly strange for the truly paranormal um and let me be clear though I'm into it I do try to maintain a level head I do try to maintain some semblance of skepticism because at the end of the day these experiences didn't happen to me I don't know these people except for in this case I do indeed know Molly Adler she's actually become a pretty close friend over the last few months and her and her husband zaz had a truly uh peak level paranormal experience that I can really tell left a mark on them I can really tell it changed their lives of course I'm not going to spoil it here but I will say that it involves a well-known UFO and paranormal experiencer Chris bledo and his son Ryan so if you're familiar with their lore you have some notion of where this is headed and if you're not familiar let me tell you it is quite the lore but it is much more difficult to write off when you know someone well who experienced it directly if you do want to go deeper if you do want to dive into said lore check out this episode of the Danny Jones podcast this is actually where I first heard of Chris bled so as you're going to hear in this pod he also has released a book uh called UFO of God definitely not necessary I do think Molly does a fine job of orienting the listener uh but we go even deeper than this in this mind M my friends all of that is really just a springboard for a conversation about uh the big questions the esoteric the Paranormal which we get into extensively hopefully in a fairly nuanced way if you don't know Molly Adler she's the host of the wonderful back from the borderline podcast and night night [ __ ] her esoteric Bedtime Stories podcast Molly and I are definitely cut from the same Wonder dipping cloth so if you enjoy this show do check her out at the links in the description and as far as this show goes do tickle the algorithm with a like a sub a comment a share it is truly of the utmost importance and I forgot to remind you to do it last week so it's even more important also do subscribe to third ey drops wherever you listen to podcast we've got a massive back catalog with hundreds of brilliant beings that will never be posted here to YouTube and if you want more if you want to initiate yourself into the Inner Circle meet likeminded sentient sacks of Stardust get access to a patreon only Discord server Zoom hangs with me and them and guests you've heard on the show get physical reward like stickers pins shirts and more join in over at patreon.com thiry drops I would love to riff with you there and without further Ado my friends let's get into that high weirdness let's meld Minds with Molly Adler welcome back Molly one of my one of my favorite humans to to commune with not only in the mindmeld space but in general we people I guess people don't know because they if anything they've seen one other podcast but since becoming pod friends yeah we've become IRL friends yeah yeah like I IRL distant friends um obsessively sending each other links talking about things voice notes we we've taken it there yeah and it's and it's because it's it's rare when you can find someone who's into all of the same weird little esoteric things it just the energy feeds off feeds off of another that so I guess people should know this episode is like friend chatting not you know what I mean not not like a I don't know I just feel like yeah when I go into your episodes which I listen as people well people don't know this but I just I consume your podcast because I am very interested in the people that you talk about talk to and it's just the thing is with your it's it's hardcore like you go into it and I guess maybe I'm talking [ __ ] on myself cuz I'm like I'm not as hardcore as the people you talk to I guess I just feel like I take myself very UNS seriously well I mean ultimately I definitely take myself UNS seriously too I know you do but like you talk to some people that take themselves very seriously and that's a good thing because they should because they're doing some very serious work were you just interrupting me just now [ __ ] we were talking about this we we just got done with a on hour pre- talk yeah yeah and among the topics that came up is is the is just comment maybe we'll get into comment toxicity and people and people who who want to give extremely unconstructive opinions about uh stop interrupting they want like they want to have like a spreadsheet on who on on who talks how much um or something like that but anyway where I want where where I really wanted to start that we started to get in our previous podcast is not only strange phenomena and the Paranormal and I guess even this is going to I think leak into the sort of UFO UAP phenomenon topic which is just endlessly fascinating to me and I know so many people are so deeply interested in for obvious reasons as they should be you personally have had some experiences or at least one experience that I'm that I'm aware of that's pretty mindblowing to a point where if if we weren't close I would have a lot of questions and and I might pose those questions to you yeah I do um but anyway I'll let you want me to start yeah start start start wherever you want I guess like how I came into contact with this family right who I had the experience with would probably be a good place to start cuz yes I will say that that is my only I've had you know as we talked about on our previous episode I've had my own kind of mystical experiences and moments of you know micro doing or meditating and just kind of like having these kind of I would call them you know just little hits where I know that I'm kind of receiving something and and and some moments where I've had like a couple of like Visionary experiences that I that I have to admit early on in my journey I very much questioned even to the point where I wrote a couple of these things down in like a journal and I actually ripped the pages out which I'm really sad about I ripped the pages out in my journal like four years ago and like threw them away because I thought like oh my God if someone reads this like they're going to think I'm insane kind of thing like so I was really having a lot of like cognitive dissonance about my own experiences like going like this can't be real it reminds you of like Bernardo castrop when you know like he talked about that first experience he had when he was younger and it's just like almost like he gaslit himself and like pushed it out of his mind and I think that happens to a lot of us where we have these little moments where we have these feelings like that something is like there or and and then we just go no like No And for a lot my actually it's important to give context is that for much of my life like I was so agnostic and so like that's such stupid stuff like that I could watch any Ghost movie the scariest movie ever because I had shut down that part of my brain so hard that I'm like that's all [ __ ] so like I can watch anything I can be in any dark house and I don't give a [ __ ] because all of that is stupid if I can't see it like none of it's real and then talk about like having a complete 180 now where like I am of the I'm reading bernardo's uh newest book and it's all about just like what the [ __ ] even is reality none of us know you know and so I think it's really important to talk about like who I used to be because I'm not that person that's always been completely open to this stuff like I was so hard shut down which I think is why my journey like of like fast forwarding into this like in like basically a four-year time I think is very it's like what makes kind of my situation a little bit unique and so as maybe you're maybe you're listeners whoever is tuning in I have my own podcast and I talked about I started it three years ago and I talk about basically just like I'm very fascinated in Psychology and depth psychology stuff which is kind of how Michael and I connected like our fascination with Yung because it helped me recover from some of my like psychological suffering that I was going through but then of course that's kind of the doorway into the numinus that I had and then I was like oh I kind of like this esoteric stuff and then I got really into Western esotericism slowly but surely I started getting the courage to kind of like I like to say blend up these themes into the smoothie of my podcast I was terrified to bring them to my listeners because I thought they're going to think I'm nuts like and I and I realized that was me projecting like almost like almost like a skepticism I still had about these things the moment that I started talking a little bit about some of these depth psychological and esoteric Concepts on the podcast my listener base was so unbelievably receptive and not only were they receptive they were reacting like I reacted where they were going oh my God I never heard about this and this is actually starting to help me like I it's helping me more than CBT when I go to the therapist and they say maybe you should change your thoughts about this you know like just these basic thing I call it abc123 therapy and so I was going okay like I'm going to start talking about more of this because it's genuinely what's helped me and I'm very careful to not tell people I'm not dogmatic about it I'm like look if this turns you off ignore it but if it makes you kind of go hm like follow that like I highly recommend following the ariadne's thread of this through your labyrinth and then they and they do because I always say like you don't even have to read the thing I read just like let this aha moment happen and then start then Google it because I I'm all about it like Google the thing and then see where that takes you and and my listeners do that so long story short I'm still just talking about psychology stuff but one day I'm listening to Duncan trussell's podcast and I just I love Duncan Trussell he's also I think very polarized some people really hate him and some people really love him I love him I think that he is a Mystic I think that I just love listening to his podcast and one day I for some reason he was interviewing this guy named um Ryan bledo and I just thought hm and long story short this and when I say guy I mean he's younger than both of us I think Ryan is like in his mid to mid 20s and the whole idea of Ryan bledo is that his father Chris bledo had just released this book called UFO of God and I and the the whole episode was them talking about this book and the experiences of the bledo family and what I was so blown away by I just knew like as soon as I started hearing Ryan speak Not only was like this this younger person like he was so wise Beyond his years and he spoke of what I had always been very turned off by anything UFO related because I I love Western esotericism and all these things and I never connected any of that the the and he started speaking about his father's experiences and for listeners I'm going to try to summarize as best as I possibly can Chris bledo thing he's the classic person like that experiences kind of these paranorm normal he was at the lowest of the low point of his life he was suffering from Crohn's disease which if anyone knows anything about that like it can be devastating he experienced a psychiatric abuse which is something that's very close to my heart and I talk a lot about him on my podcast he had it was um I think this happened in 2007 so this was right around the crash his family was living in like a multi-million dollar home because he had like a very successful construction business he'd come from Nothing by the way like in North Carolina and he'd built this business on his own and built this beautiful life for his family and the financial crash happened and obviously that's when like [ __ ] went haywire with his business they lost everything and so this and and he was Pentecostal so like they were deep in the Pentecostal Church his wife's family was in the Pentecostal Church you know and for those of you don't know speaking tongues you know like super extreme super extreme um um Hellfire and brimstone you know if you are not doing this you're going to hell like very black and white so that's the backdrop of what all this happened and one night they he took his son and some people that he was working with fishing somewhere on the Cape Fear River which is in North Carolina and long story short he went out into the woods and he basically had that moment of like he was he wasn't ever going to kill himself cuz he had a family and he knew but he was just going he said that he called out to God and just said like I can't do this anymore I don't know what to do my health is crumbling I can't support my family like help me you know and I won't go into detail about the experience because the thing is I don't know the exact details but let's just say you should absolutely go down the rabbit hole and go listen to interviews and even the interview I did with him because he talks about it read his book The Experience the tldr of his experience is that he saw craft in the sky he saw these big big lights these glowing orbs and he also lost a bunch of time very classic UFO experiences and his son later went out to go look for his dad and his son Chris Jr ex also experienced seeing like beings um and his son was extremely traumatized by this experience um not because anything necessarily bad happened it's just that it was that ontological shock right and yeah and that led to him having some really bad Health outcomes Chris bledo finally made his way back to H the group and he thought he had been gone for maybe an hour and his son and the group were literally besides themselves with worry saying where are you um you've been gone for like something like 9 hours like it had been way longer than he thought and um he got back to the group and also he said where's my son and they said well you're he went out looking for you and Chris obviously was like filled with Dread because he knew what he had been through and he's like he didn't know these beings were benevolent or any of these things he thought my son's been taken they finally found his son son was deeply traumatized right and they all like are traumatized they go back home let's just say because I want to get into my experience with this family that this set off a precipitate um amount of precipitating events where Chris was witnessing these beings all the time his family was having paranormal experiences there was literally an instance of a Burning Tree like in their in their yard these lots of biblical things and then the interesting part because I'm very fascinated with um the black Madonna the Virgin Mary the divine feminine kind of like goddess uh worship you know ancient mystery traditions of the Goddess Isis I've always been fascinated with these things Chris then around Easter had this Vision where he went outside and had an encounter with a figure that called herself the lady which then made this kind of Prophecy which yet again all these similar themes that you hear in stories you know basically the world is in danger we are not respecting Mother Earth you know these themes similar to you know the the kids in Zimbabwe I think or I can't remember somewhere in Africa had that experience many similarities so as I'm listening to Ryan on this podcast something in me is just like I have to read this book because this is not like any other UFO stuff that I've heard it was very spiritual again I thought the title of his book immediately was like I was like that's dramatic UFO of God right but he did that because he is trying to talk about this like this is spiritual right like and it and it reminds me of Ja valet who often talks about how when you hear about UFO experiences it's very this is the scientific aspect you see the beings you see the craft but what the the other part of the story that you don't hear and Diana Pula speaks about this as well it's the when I looked at these beings I thought everything about my life I understood I became healed and Chris blo experienced miraculous healings he no longer had Crohn's disease he um miraculously overcame his rheumatoid arthritis so I heard this episode and I just said I don't know I have to I have to talk to this family and I just thought oh my God I have to selfishly interview them on the podcast my listeners are going to be like what in the [ __ ] are you like you're GNA talk to a but I thought I can make this work because he he endured psychiatric abuse and all this stuff and I thought that I could just make it work but selfishly I just thought I have to talk to this family so I reached out to Ryan on Instagram I I literally had zero expectation of getting anything back but I did say I I dm' him and I said basically hey Ryan I heard your episode on Trestle and I'm just I felt compelled to reach out to you and I mentioned the fact that I had been doing a lot of deep diving on um Mary and apparitions and also on Mary Magdalene and all of these things that I'm very fascinated about and I sent him this article about like merba mysticism and some of these orbs and I just was like just some of the deep diving that I'm doing is just I'm having so many Connecting Threads and not only do I want to interview you on the podcast but I also just like did you know about this you know like I'm curious to know if you know about these surprisingly literally that same day I got a message back from him and he was just like hey Molly like I normally don't answer this stuff but like I very fascinated by the links you sent me and like do you want to have a call like basically just like talk on the phone and I just was like [ __ ] yeah and so he called me and we ended up talking for two hours like and just like me and you do like he by the way which you should have Ryan on the podcast like because again he is us he he goes down all the same rabbit holes that we do he's fascinated with all these things and so again it was just like when I talked to you for the first time I was like instantly I love him and so we talked for like two and a half hours and at the end of our talk he was like okay he's basically like his dad's bodyguard like he's just like okay I have to introduce you to my dad like my dad was going to love you like uh he doesn't often do I don't know what his schedule's like I but like I'm going to talk to him and tell him about you so we got off the phone he apparently texted his dad and his dad instantly said like yeah I want to talk to her so then again he said do you want to have a call with me and my dad and again just geeky I had gobbled his dad's book up and I'm like dying to speak to this man and so again we all got on a call again we talked for 2 hours and I like show was screen sharing and showing Chris all of these things that ID found about Mary and apparitions and he was really fascinated some of it he knew some of it he's like whoa you know and again he went down his own rabbit holes with it and I just said can I please like I would actually love to interview you both together um because I really wanted to talk about they experienced so much shaming in their Community you know like they were toxically shamed they were shunned from their Church um you know he was called demonic by his own family like um just and then what people don't know too is like every three-letter [ __ ] Agency on planet Earth was obsessively going to the bledo house and so long story short Chris bledo every night goes out and he can see these orbs they're up in the sky every time he goes out every night and if you follow him on his Instagram he posts videos of these things and I was just looking at this and I'm like this is is fascinating and it's like he can tell when they're going to when it's going to happen he has this kind of like psychic connection to them uh where they respond to him if people are on the phone with him they can actually see them too it's just fascinating and so I said I want to interview you and he said well Molly you know typically I I don't want to do an interview before like someone just comes out and sees this for themsel and I was like what uh and and he said you should come like come come to our house and I just went I'm not very like an impulsive person with traveling like I'm very introverted and so I was like [ __ ] but I immediately just said I have to do this like what like this is a once in a-lifetime opportunity and they don't invite everyone there's people thousands of people are messaging CH so wanting to go to his house and so I thought and again because I've just been so there's so many synchronicities in my life I thought like God the universe is saying like go do this how could I say no you know what I mean like I'm just like just do it and I was I am not a rich person so like I was just like and it's going to be like I wanted to book like an immediate ticket so it was an investment that I made I write I wrote that [ __ ] off because it was a podcast related of course um but I just did it it was my husband's birthday coming up and he's like into this stuff just as much as I am and was very fascinated and I said okay for your birthday present we're going to go [ __ ] see some amazing stuff and so we booked the ticket and I hope this is okay and not too like long no it's it's totally fine and I think you're I think you're providing all the it's really important the det yeah there's there's important details because so as someone I I don't have a direct connection to these people I have watched I haven't read the book but I I know the gist of his experience and I've watched interviews with him yeah and from the to and I'm not I'm not just like going to try provide a a skeptical Counterpoint or something because I I don't know how I feel about like the story is very compelling there's a lot of really interesting details and then there are a lot of really extreme claims built off of those details where I think if you're a not even a skeptical person but you're just an even keeled person yeah you're like whoa that's a huge claim like there's there are some claims of like um him him healing people or healing his dog after something happened to his dog and um just really pretty pretty out there stuff even for a person like me who's very open to these things yep however there is also a lot of really interesting at least anecdotal evidence and to your point apparently all these government agencies are interested like I don't have a way to know for sure if that's true he just had a History Channel documentary made about him right and literally they sent a neuroscientist out there to track his brain waves and like literally have proved like the shift in his brain State when he sees these beings and again like I was skeptical as well yeah but again as you will see I [ __ ] experienced it yeah yeah so I I'm just trying I'm trying to think for anybody who's not initia this don't we're Ming tooly think you did a good job of laying out the of this person's popular like Chris bledo has been on podcasts that have had like millions of views his his own book I'm sure has has sold very well he's connected to other people that I feel like are legit you know people like you mentioned Diana Pula she's really interesting to me really want to have her on the show I've been trying to to hunt her down but she's a um professor of religious studies at I think uh University of North Carolina wilington it's either it's either Wilmington or Chapel Hill I don't remember um yeah she's got a couple books out that revolve either largely around paranormal phenomena and UFO broadly phenomena and bringing them potentially connecting that phenomena with spiritual yeah yeah experien and also she ties them back to the beautiful part of pula's work and again that's like interestingly before I even knew about her those were the connections I was making in my mind because I had been so deeply studying like ter Teresa of Avala and Hildegard of bingan and some of these female Mystics particularly that I was fascinated in but yet again you could go into any of these other Mystics down Through the Ages and then you start seeing these similarities but in their experiences and also I was particularly fascinated with the connection of deep suffering you know a moment of reaching out and then um having that call kind of answered but I but I still because I had never seen anything physically with my eyes I was still just skeptical you know and as I and I finish tell and as I tell you the story of me going out there that skepticism remained like all the way up until the I saw it with my own eyes right so and and I think there's a lot of people you know just to interject what I think is an important Point um there's a lot of people listening thinking there's so much suffering in the world there's so many people crying out for help there's so many people on the brink of death you know screaming for God to help them and nothing El don't have those experiences Y and so so why why this guy why this guy when he was just in like Financial ruin and you know Crohn's disease and like what whatever else why and he sort of seems to be aware of that you know like I don't understand why me I can't tell you I don't know but and I will tell you this man is like when you meet him because again you have to meet him you know in person and the warmth it's almost like you get a feeling when you're around him he is a special person and uh I don't know I I don't know but but uh he has like it's like again like you know the the saying there's like a twinkle in someone's eye like he has such a warmth about him and and I was just struck by his humility he lives very humbly he um is a very spiritual man and very bodh SATA Vibes you know he he this is an interesting point and Ryan brings this up is this is a man that grew up in North Carolina that was a hunter and you know he he went hunting all the time ethically of course like it's like he tried to minimize the suffering of the animals he used the animals like they went hunting for food and all of these things it wasn't like he's going to Africa on Safari killing exotic creatures he was just a a country boy who would go hunting and he turned into a person immediately who could not would not hunt anymore and his uh Ryan said my dad went from a guy who'd go hunting to PE a guy who would be taking a spider outside like and and having and again very St Francis of AI Vibes again like I don't know if your listeners know about this had like a deep connection with animals where they were like wild animals were coming up to him uh after this happened and Ryan and his family were like witnessing this all and being like what the [ __ ] right like my our dad is instantly Changed by this experience into a different person who is like very conscious of the suffering of all beings kind of thing you know and yet again that has a lot of connecting threads to you know mystical experiences where you're changed like this you know it's like your your psyche is changed instantly because you've kind of just had this internal shift so right we went there and we drove out to their property and when we got there it was still light outside and so we literally sat in their little house and talk to Ryan his dad and his mom and their two little dogs are and we're just sitting there and I got to ask Chris like all these questions I wanted to ask and admittedly some of the stuff I actually can't even talk about because he asked me and zaz to like there's certain things he shared with us that like he can't talk about but let's just say this man has been into some of the inner sanctums in the government and some of these places that even some presidents haven't been led into because these three agencies are so fascinated with him and they want to know why you know again like you why him why does he have this special connection um people are constantly people from CERN and NASA and um the CIA and all of these government agencies are coming out to their property and the the bledos are hosting them you know Southern Hospitality style like saying okay come and sky and they Skywatch with Chris that's what they call it Chris every night he goes out and skywatches and so it started to get dark we went out to dinner and the entire time like this is the kind of stuff that nobody would hear right like cuz Chris doesn't talk about this we went out to dinner at this little like Italian place near their house and like as soon as we sit down Chris like you know when someone is just like itching to like leave and and he was going and Ryan's going dad calm down like we let's eat first and Chris is like we got to get back like let's go let's go he is like driven to go be with these lights right like he and also he knows when it's going to happen so we were all chill it only happened towards like the last part of dinner he's like okay we need to get the check like let's go let's go let's go let's go and I thought that was also very fascinating because he was like itching to get back and so we finally get back to their house they've got like lawn chairs set up right and so me and Ryan and Chris and zaz go sit out there and I was scared because it was a um a full moon and so obviously because of that the sky was really bright and then in addition to that it was kind of overcast and so my energy again I'm a skeptic and I thought the funniest part about it was I was going to be like I'm the only watch it watch I'm gonna be the person that comes out here and doesn't see [ __ ] right like just I knew I knew it I was like no the I'm going to travel all this way and nothing's going to happen I already know it like right and Ryan I told Ryan I was like what if like and he goes don't just chill like don't worry like yes it's really he admitted he's like it is pretty overcast so like it's much better if the sky is clear but just chill like and so we all just sat there and we were talking me Ryan and zaz were just having to blast chatting away and Chris it's like if you imagine it it's Ryan zaz me Chris so I'm next to Chris directly next to him and we're all just like leaning back in those in those lawn chairs and it started it was probably an hour and still nothing had happened and all of a sudden Chris tells us he's like hey guys stop talking like let's all just and Chris says focus on the Holy Spirit that's what he said he goes I want all of us to and essentially what he's meaning is like we need to meditate like basically let's actually like start putting the intention out there be quiet respectful of this energy and see what happens and as we kind of quiet it down Chris is talking to me and he asked we start talking about what I'd been going through and I was telling him he just asked me very like sweetly like just like a very concerned dad of just like you know what what is it in your life that you really want to heal from like what are you struggling with and I opened up with Chris about um opened up to him about like my sexual trauma that I had gone through and that I was really struggling with recovering from like sexual abuse and he just kind of like put his hand on me and he said okay he goes I want you to think about that like and just close your eyes and like really just think about that and and so I did and Clos my eyes and um all of a sudden I look up in the sky and I see one of these little orbs and it's very far away okay very far away and so it's just like a little pin prick and if you go to his Instagram it looks like the the videos he uploads and it's those things that are like that could be a plane that could be this that could be you know like what could it be but then you see that it's doing things that a plane isn't doing it's it's doing little loop-de-loops it's doing little circular movements that like that's not how a plane moves and then we had also seen a couple of planes so it's just like you would distinctly seen that and then you see the difference to these and so and I asked that I'm like Z do you see that and he's like yeah I see it like and I was like okay okay okay okay and then Chris is non nonchalant it's just like this is what he sees every night and and so that wasn't even that wasn't enough for me I was just like like yeah and so I'm sitting there sitting there and then I did what Chris uh recommended and again we started talking about what I had gone through and he was just telling me and I was like what do you mean the Holy Spirit you know like what do you think about and he was just telling me about how he really comes out and he just tries to connect to something higher than himself isn't like he was clear he's clearly raised in this framework of Christianity but he has gone out and really explored lots of different areas of mysticism now but he's just saying Center yourself all of a sudden a few minutes later I see and it it it was probably I'm not very good with like measuring distances but when I say that this thing was like 20 ft above my head I I catch out of the corner of my eye and both only me and Chris saw the beginning of this I look up and there is this flaming ball and I say it's not flaming it's golden imagine like what a candle flicker looks like like it's that color Golden Ball like this big like the size of my head 20 feet above us and it literally goes Shar like uh just jutting above over the tree and me and Chris literally our heads were both like like we both saw it and zaz I was like and again it happened so fast that like I I was going what what what what what is that and zaz saw it he saw the tail end of it and it just zooms over the tree and disappears and when I say I looked at zaz and I said did you see that and he said yes and I went and chis like his face was just so like glowing and and and he looked at me and he said I love when people see this for the first time like you could just tell he loves watching people he said you should have seen your face CU he said I looked like a kid on Christmas morning like because you can't I was like in awe yeah I can't imagine i' never seen anything like that like and I just it gets me emotional talking about about it like and I just was so I couldn't believe it and and Chris was again he was just going yep see see cuz I had told him no nothing's going to come I'm not going to see anything and he's like trust just trust just trust he goes see I told you I told you and he said that one was for you that's what he said to me he's like that one was for you now do you see and I said yes like and I believed it it felt like it was like it it was just such a powerful moment then that was the most that was like the wow factor and then after that it was like a party in the sky we were seeing these little things it was just like his Instagram videos so if you go to Chris blood so's Instagram you will see because again it's easier to look at and and actually see what I mean so if you're on your phone right now you could literally go look and we were seeing a party in the sky of these little golden orbs it's like what I saw up close as far away as a star you know or a planet it looked just like like that and they're just they're just dancing around and I was just whoa and then zaz saw more of these what zaz reported that he saw I saw one of them we were looking through the trees into the forest and it was almost like you know when you see a really slow like like flash photography like a slow flash bulb we would see those in the trees like wow and zaz I I looked over at my husband and I just zaz went very qu me I was like wow wow I was the vocal one and zaz went dead silent the whole time and he said that he was just meditative and he just literally was like looking into the trees and he said the whole time he was trying to communicate with them and zaz said he just was seeing nuts [ __ ] going on in the in the woods he was seeing flashing lights but seeing stuff I wasn't seeing okay like I saw certain things zaz saw other things but we both like so we have been out there in your most skeptical possible mindset is there any scenario that you can conjure that this all could have some because I'm I'm trying to put myself at the the skeptic's shoes in yeah and whoever's listening right now just like like what what it like yeah what is what are they talking about this is impossible this can't happen mhm like is there any way they could have fabricated what I saw like a like aop a production a a way of like getting you into a suggestive State of Mind where where they where something you know is orchestrated just to just for you or like they do this to people um I guess but I go for what you know like and also and also it's how you have to understand because if I were in the the viewer shoes like again I've been there like I I wouldn't believe it and also I didn't believe it until you experience it yourself and I know that I am like me and zaz have to pinch ourselves sometimes yeah because we're going like we witnessed something that that that people would kill to see that people would you know and I want to make very clear we went back so they offered they're the most hospitable amazing human beings like we were going to go get a hotel and his wife is like classic southern like mom and she's like no like you're staying they have a tiny home on their property she's go nope nope you're staying with us like you're sleeping here so we stayed there and when zaz and I like we went back and laid down in in bed we couldn't even talk we were just literally like what do you even say we're like brushing our teeth being like looking at each other just what in the [ __ ] and again the next day we left and um this is something I actually never told any of the people in my episode is on my Way North Carolina is a very like witchy Town there's lots of really cool we went to Asheville and Asheville is like a very very like cool little spiritual hippie town and they have this really cool esoteric store that I had to go to so I went and when I got there I was drawn to this like um really cool you know those old ancient Venus figurines like the ones that are like the old goddess where there they're like these very voluptuous like uh Stone figures it was a little small I bought that and then right before we left um and I really wanted it like I was like I was so excited to have it but right before we left like I felt this desire I was like I have to give this to Chris so like I ran to the car and I came back and I said like I want you to have this because like the lady and all these goddess things are very important to him and he knew what it was and he like uh and he just said thank you so much like I'll cherish this like and we gave him a hug and like he hugged that and like my husband doesn't like Cry he's not a very like he's a very stoic person and my husband uh has own his own stuff he wants to heal from and that's not for me to talk about but he opened up to Chris and again I've never seen my husband do this and he was standing in the corner and I just saw them exchanging words and zaz cried and Chris just like huged ass it makes me emotional and um he's just you have to like be there you know to like to experience like you know when something's [ __ ] inherently you know what I mean like and there is something if he was back in the Middle Ages or you took him back this man would be seen as like a a Mystic or something you know or someone who had this very special connection and we have known about these people for thousands of years right like you love Socrates like there are certain people that just are wired in a way where they have have a connection to something greater and and magical things happen around them and I don't have any proof other than my own experience and also just the way I felt you know the magic I felt in that moment and so we flew back and again on the plane me and zaz were just like we couldn't talk like and also I was looking at my phone and even social media everything felt so [ __ ] stupid for a few days afterwards I was like what do I even but you want to know what me and zaz have talked about is how quickly you forget that moment and you just go back into the mundane daily life letting and so me and zaz like our Mantra is like don't forget don't forget the orbs like remember that when we start getting stressed about things or whatever it's like remember what we saw like and I'm now so grateful that I had this experience because again like I've been The Listener where it's just like yeah but you know D du no I I saw it and how Earth could these people make a glowing flaming orb like that like I was literally at their very humble little property this I don't understand how they could have manifested this or or set it all up like it just doesn't make sense first and foremost just logically and secondly the way I felt of of this family and they're living very humbly it's not like you know what I mean it's just it's it doesn't give it's not giving any kind of energy of like and I have a very good intuition I call [ __ ] on a lot of things um but we we didn't feel sold or I wasn't told to do anything or say anything you know what I mean and he also said you need to come and experience this before I want to come on your podcast and talk because I want you to be authentically speaking from what you've gone through and not just have me experience and he told me he was trying to make an effort to connect with more women podcasters because he said that he believes that now is a time for like the feminine of like that these things are um and that's something that he was told by the lady and again his experiences are very reminiscent of Mary and apparitions and that that that women will carry this message through for like whatever that means so all of that was very fascinating to me and so that's it that's that's the experience I know it's really long and really detailed but I think all that context is really important because I could just say I saw some orbs but it's like all of those things really matter you know all of these little piece of pieces of context yeah they they really do and it's this is one of those times where you know Ju Just Like You I'm interested in these things and I've had my own experiences and I've read enough accounts and history we're talking about how the history of ideas and of the esoteric and the Paranormal and and philosophy becomes important in terms to ter in terms of how to contextualize and make sense of these things and if you do not even a deep dive if you just use common sense and you look at the preoccupation in ancient life toward the s toward the night sky toward our seemingly our place in the sort of metaphysical hierarchy of things that seem invisible to us but if I I really think if you dive into them rationally and when I say rationally I mean the original usage of the word like you go deep into your own Consciousness and really just turn Inward and stay there and go deep via whatever mechanism you have access to whether it's just meditation psychedelics uh you know sensory deprivation whatever there are so many different Avenues you know yes yeah you you will see that there is much more going on in the psyche and potentially in the World At Large Consciousness at large than what you can possibly believe yeah and soon as you open that door it it really is kind of an ontological landmine it really does change what reality is in terms of How It's popularly presented to us throughout our lives and a lot of people have these kinds of experiences but they don't talk about it and if they're talked about in the media it's I saw Little Green Men I saw craft yeah all of the spiritual side all of the oh when I looked at it I felt this way or I was healed or this or I changed my mind and I no longer want to kill animals all of that's left out right you know conveniently right yeah and so however even though I've said all of that I have never had a experience that is demonstrably outside the right of my own experience like I've had very precious very strange very mystical experiences via Altered States and and I've had one in particular that was so impactful that it is still one of those like you say you pinch yourself and you're like don't forget this happened to you I've had that I've talked about it it was it was essentially like the senx experience during iasa if anybody wants to hear that story go back and listen to the millions of other podcasts where I talk about it um but it's happened after drinking iasa it didn't happen in front of other people it happened to me yeah but knowing you so well and hearing you tell this story with so much certainty and it leaving such an emotional imprint on you it's important even for for me as somebody who's a complete third party to this to this thing so given that I don't know I know that you're a Nuance thinker and you're not going to be one of those people who's like it was absolutely this it was not it was this how however what is your sense of what it was and and what do you intuitively think about why you know we were getting into this question of why him and I don't know if you have an opinion on that or not um I may just be reaching for something that's not there but you know what this reminds me of my my talk with Sarah Morgan you know your previous guest the entire end of our episode on my podcast what we started talking about is basically like because we were talking about simulation Theory and we were talking about no shade to men but we were talking about how so many men out there like in like the world of physics it's like they want to know why they want to know like what is it how does it work how can we like [ __ ] pin this down like imagine like a viking like a knife on the board like how can we like what is this and d and it's not like I don't have that desire either but I think that we have forgotten collectively um unknowing and my my favorite uh one of my favorite Mystics is uh meister eart and his uh text is like The Cloud of Unknowing and it's one of my favorites I really recommend he's obviously a Christian Mystic but again if you love mystical stuff like I highly recommend getting that on Audible why I say audible is because I just love listening to it over and over um and it basically talks about how you know we try so hard to like pin the idea of God or Divine down and say like why is it this why is it that and it also reminds me so that that's a thing is like I kind of have the more and more that I've loosened my grasp on right what is it why I have to know because I've actually like Bernardo cast's work has really helped me Jack fet's exploration of all this stuff has really helped me because what they really talk about is like it's all absurd and whatever is happening is like there is no Rhyme or Reason and interestingly you almost see these situations play out where the absurdity of it it it's almost the universe the Divine whatever the [ __ ] you want to call it it's almost saying like we're going to make this make no sense so that you realize there is no sense that can be made and also so I am trying to realize that like I see such a limited fraction of this reality that like even if there was a way to explain it I don't have the ability to comprehend it in my current state right now so like the more I can loosen my grasp on wanting to know maybe actually then I can know nosis more and so like that's that's what I think that's kind of the more and and I find this to be be an interesting addition um recently like jacqu Vala talks about this story and Bernardo castrip even mentions it in his book and you'll know this because I think that one of the episodes of the wi files you sent me um they he talked about this story it's basically the guy in the 1950s I don't remember his name but the story was that he walked outside and he saw a craft and um there were beings that came out and basically these beings handed him a jug and into intuitively the man knew that the beings were saying will you fill this jug up with water for us and again does it make sense that these beings want water if they're all knowing beings like why the [ __ ] do they need water again absurdity it doesn't make sense and then another layer of absurdity is that these beings were making pancakes like in their craft and the beings offered he got them water he brought them the water according to his experience and then the beings gave him three pancakes and the guy was like what like basically what the [ __ ] and the the guy turned the pancakes into the CIA I think or like you know the the government and the government analyzed the makeup of these pancakes and they found out that they had like buckwheat in them and then also but one notable thing was that they didn't have any salt like there was no salt in the pancakes and jacqu balet made this connection that that you know in the Celtic regions or in England which is like where a lot of my ancestry is from is like they believed in the F folk or fairies right and one interesting like thing about fairies in the myths is that they couldn't and wouldn't eat salt and like what an interesting connection right and so I think um and again I'm bringing up the fact because it's absurdity right like these things don't make sense and they're just very absurd why would they be making pancakes why would they ask for water you know all of these things like and not only that and I'll and then I I'll stop because I want to hear what you have to say but the interesting point is is that my ancestors for example were like Druids for in in like the ancient times like in in the Celtic regions and it was very common it brings me back to what you said before it was like a no-brainer that there was a spiritual world and the physical world and you would go and maybe see the fairies see the fa folk and and you would talk to the spirits or you would see go to the water and do these things again you could take it back to Native American traditions where it's like it's a given or Aborigines in dream time even right now there are cultures in this world that are not these cartisian appolloni Minds that we have that think the only thing is real the only things that are real that we can see eat taste here I could go to one of these Elders right now and tell them my experience and they'd be like yeah so yeah that's the spirit world or they would say it through the lens of their own myth but they would not be surprised they would say yeah of course right like welcome to re to reality yeah yeah and I I'm trying to remember which episode this was I I'm thinking this might be that Mr Mythos episode about the airships God his content is where there were yeah yeah and this one in particular I really loved because um to put a little more color on the story you telling there was this rash of time I think maybe in the late 19th century where instead of people seeing UFOs they were seeing airships yeah and there's newspaper articles about it in in a bunch of um a bunch of I think fairly major newspapers but one of the tie-ins with this episode for me that was interesting is I was born in Appleton Wisconsin and there is a um a newspaper article in this episode from Appleton Wisconsin h of like an Airship like a famous Airship sighting and returning to this idea of just ontological shock and ontological [ __ ] and also scops he was theorizing essentially in this episode that there was really something but that there was also purposeful obfuscation on the part of the government where they had some kind of advanced technology or or even perhaps some kind of anti-gravity technology that they were already using and that they were making something and that some of these occasions where the that yeah like these these ships showing up places where the government purposefully obus skating something else and that throws such an extra layer of difficulty over the top of this whole conversation and why I feel like I have to ask these questions even to people like you who I pretty much trust implicitly like with what they're telling me with their ability to discern reality and what they've experienced and everything like you you have to ask like you ask a question why would they do this like I don't know like could it be a way to like funnel narrative like could it be a like and again I'm not saying this is what Chris blo is I'm not saying it's what he is I have no idea but you have to genuine experiences mind you I want to make this very clear like people like Chris bledo I believe that people's genuine experiences have been Twisted shaped and then used as propaganda and he spoke a lot about that in our in our private conversations he said one thing that he said that I was like and it ties into exactly what you're saying now because here's what I asked him and and I know he wouldn't mind me sharing this part because he said it on the podcast is that I said you know he basically said the worst part is like all the fear because he's we we basically got into this conversation of you know I think there's a huge part of um the collective right now and I don't blame them that think like basically the whole of government is a scop that like it's just corruption bad people in the government especially people in like places like NASA or any of these three-letter agencies and I said to and Chris basically and I got to this conversation it's like he goes there are really great people in the government right now that I've spoken to that hate all the corruption that's going on and part of why they want him to share his story is because they want the spiritual nature to be talked about more they want you know what I mean they they want to it's like maybe the gushes of the world again I don't know him but it's like I think there are people I'm I don't know about his um like I don't know rush I never met him I don't know but what Chris did say is he obviously and what I loved about him is he doesn't know but he said my sense because I've met met lots of people in the government he has had his life threatened uh by people in the government and then he has also had amazing people who he believes truly want to combat the corruption that's going on and speak about about this and so that's what I think that we all forget collectively and I believe that it that's how it is with these stories he said Chris told me and zaz I'm just like thinking back because I'm being very careful I never want to like break his trust it's just basically he said watch watch how this all plays out and you're going to see and and you can Inuit it when something is just fear-based he said look for the fear if something is creating fear and a national security threat around this these kind of phenomena that's when you know it's kind of orchestrated right because he's like and he's like because this stuff is very he's like he believes it so deeply he said this is spiritual this is universal this is accessible to anybody and and I believe that we all just need to remember who we truly are and we need to you know open our faculties more and I believe that that's coming and the government can't stop that from coming and that they're very upset and trying to inject fear into the narrative so that people aren't able to open those faculties yeah there is this weird sense that part of the reason the disclosure ramp up is occurring is because there's like this weird sense that they're not going to be able to keep a like they can't keep on it anymore and that that's really interesting because what does that mean and how is that but then the the other thing and and this is why it's not just ontological shock it's epistemological just impossibility because you're being prevented with layer after layer of possibilities and just forking potentials that you can't make sense of and that leads into this like House of mirrors in terms of trying to ascertain what's true and because like on the other hand we know that there is Advanced like did you watch that um Jesse Michaels thing recently about the advanced propulsion the history of advanced exotic every time he uploads and when I say that I an instant watch that's one channel where he puts a video out and I'm like [ __ ] his [ __ ] is so good and and essentially the argument he's making in that video in a very rough nutshell it's a long extraordinarily well researched documentary really about how there is a lot of evidence to suggest that we've been dabbling in in this technology and by this technology we mean anti-gravity like completely you know exotic engine type to technology right now that could change the [ __ ] world could change people's lives and they are specifically not sharing it and given that the idea is that we have working Skunk Works very secretive type of craft that could be like the Tic Tacs that could be like these weird objects and that is what you and then you have to ask the question of could the spiritual explanation be yet another layer of theop to distract from then how do you then how do you explain what I experien exactly exactly right and and and I'm not saying and I'm not trying I know you're not but I'm saying that's what helps but here now here here I just wrote this down because I didn't want to interrupt you you know we love this there's another element where it's like when people are genuinely friends too like when I think people when they're consuming content it they forget about how natural conversations happen you know and when you're talking to someone and you are so passionate about the same things it's like oh but this oh but this like that's how a natural conversation happens it's conversation but what what came up for me when you were saying that is here's my theory about it and you know like my Fascination I always wondered why I was so fascinated particular with particularly with the Middle Ages I've just always been so I love also the tutor uh time period King Henry VII all of that that time period fascinated me because he he's the one it was like the beginning of the Reformation right like with Martin Luther and um going away from Catholicism and da d da but the Catholic church right and even King Henry the8 he then became like I am God I'm the voice of God you can only do everything through me you know since time and moriam like especially this this time the Dark Ages the Middle Ages whatever you want to call them is the clergy only wanted you to access the Divine through them and they burnt and called Heretics anyone who came out and said this is accessible to you you don't have to do it in this way you can and there are Mystics going all the way back and there are even like the hildegart of Bings the St Teresa of avalas I think if they could have come out and like actually said what they really believed they they were smart because they just funneled their religious and mystical experiences through the the proper channels they played by the rules just enough Hildegard was like she's like female Da Vinci I could I just adore her and I could talk about her for days but they knew that like you don't have to experience God through someone else this is directly accessible to you and that was very threatening to the church because the more these people would go out and again like there are there are things of spontaneous levitation that that again uh Diana Pula talks about these things that have been written down or just amazing miraculous things but regardless even just at the most simple things these people saying you don't need the government the clergy the this to have your spiritual experiences it's directly accessible to you and you don't need to do the Eucharist you don't need to pay the church you don't need to do any of this and as you know uh our friend n God is dead and we have killed him we no longer are a religious uh culture it's like it died and died and died and died especially in England like living in London for example was very I lived there for six years oh really people are yeah I did and people are not religious at all when I say like talk about so I met more atheists in London who are like and when I say like so rational like [ __ ] anything spiritual and again I think they a lot of it's really just trauma right they realize how much corruption there was and whatever and so it's like [ __ ] that [ __ ] all of it um and so we went into this totally other realm however when we're talking about this the government has now become the Catholic Church where right it's like you're going to only experience these things through the lens that we say you can but but but it's different it's scary it's a national security threat you know like don't don't they don't want people clearly to have experiences like I did yes yeah I think to an extent that's true but I think the other epistemological complication I guess I would say is that it would actually be a lot more simple if there was a monolithic holder of control so that like people still think this way as if the government is somehow that thing and I think you're right to an extent or maybe the mainstream media is like another one but I think it's just a thread of the of what's happening right I I don't think I figured it out again as I told you I don't think I know [ __ ] but I think there's a threat of it you know yes yes totally totally and whatever whatever it is whatever like the potential monolithic you know final Arbiter of reality is it's degrading and due to its degradation on one hand we are more free I think to sense make through alternate conduits but that also complicates things like more more more reality and more ability to reality with freedom is inherently more complex than than when you have one potential Avenue right now we have so many avenues that we have to be able to like think critically about all of them and question all of them and balance all of them and we are clearly not doing a good job collectively OB like the like the back like for instance the backlash um against mainstream media is yeah like the the unsaid thing there is that somehow alternative media is more um trustworthy than mainstream media which is inherently just like a false dichotomy like neither one of them is necessar I was about to say you know what's fascinating is like I was just talking to a friend about this the other day and I won't out her but her partner is a guy who's like so I'd say like one step away from like believing q and on type things like so doomsday so like kind of like he is a person who's been like raised in like very like Evangelical spaces like oh do you see like the the end times are coming you know this kind of [ __ ] and also believes very much like he all of us are anyone who's watching the mainstream is brainwashed and anyone who watches what I'm watching is awakened and I was telling my friend I said here's the problem with that is like and it's what I was talking about with Chris it's always something in between like it's like yes is there corruption going on but also are there some people who just literally were trying to do their best and the incentive models are all [ __ ] up and they literally are so high up like me and you were talking about how our entire Government is made of geriatric old men and that won't Rel relinquish power and it's just like I think there's such sometimes it's not as nefarious as we would love to believe it's all just like it's this Middle Ground where totally are there some [ __ ] up people I think that have like dark deep dark like things yeah but I also think there are some really good people who are trying to fight for what's right and then there are some people who are literally just don't want to redo their homework and are trying to like get their pension or get what this big government contract and it's all [ __ ] and the problem is the incentive models and I also think there's a huge element of like you have these people you know the I don't know his name but like there's people in the government right now you know that are working with grush that are trying to like actually make like a think tank in the government but here's the [ __ ] problem is like a lot of these people are like super Evangelical Christians or they're just like these no offense but like sometimes these Dopey Senators that have like such a limited understanding and so it's like even if they're given all the information they only have a part of that information and they're going to filter that through their weird worldview that's not open-minded at all and so like it's this [ __ ] up game of telephone with people that are that are good bad and in between and the [ __ ] up part that in my opinion is that we need to just democratize the information that's out there the thing that makes me so upset is the gatekeeping of information the gatekeeping of Technology as if we are infantile little stupid people that can't take the truth and like that makes me mad that they're even thinking about a disclosure disclosure strategy because regardless of how it [ __ ] up the world the fact remains is that we deserve to know the truth right and for people that don't know they're genu is a concerted documented effort now saying that there's essentially like a slow roll disclosure occurring which is really mind-blowing and I I'll post a link to this to actually you know put put some meat on they're literally deciding behind the scenes right now what we can handle as a society to know right but but then the other thing is is now because everyone innately questions anything that comes from quote unquote the government we were truth here it ising chips forward pieces of actual truth we aren't sure if it's the truth and we aren't sure if it's yet another slight of hand to distract it's like how someone says aliens could land on the White House lawn and people would say is that AI like da like it that we have and that's why I'm M I'm mad and again me and you talked about this like I'm so mad about the state of our government because I don't give a [ __ ] what side of the aisle their complete inability the corruption the horrible incentive models all across the board there is no trust left like it's all so broken that like I don't I question everything now and I think that's a good thing but like there is literally no one in any kind of position of power that could say anything that I'm just going to believe yeah at least not wholeheartedly exactly and and and this it's I think it's really important to acknowledge that I don't think anyone is free of bias I don't think there's a single person on the planet that's free of bias but what I think the Difference Maker is is are you so captured by your bias that everything that you experience has to go through the prism of that and then it only to your like and to put some some light on this and to to make it make more sense like this potential think tank that you're talking about where it may comprised of people who have these really dogmatic worldviews where everything that goes through every piece of information yeah has to go through the prism of that and not only go through the prism of it but it's essentially lower on their personal hierarchy of meaning and need than this narrative are you so captured by any narrative any affiliation anything that it has to somehow first fit in with that if you are thinking in that way you're a compromised thinker and you you don't have the ability to look at reality in anything approaching a clear way and again it's not to be free of bias it's how willing and this is like true of all personal development all Spiritual Development all philosophical reasoning in general how willing are you to look at your own bias acknowledge your own bias and understand this is the way that I innately think and therefore I need to watch out for that and understand that and if you're not willing to do that then you're you're captured and a lot of these people are captured by something I would argue that all of them because I really think so because the fact remains is that and it's the same way I talk all the time on the podcast about uh Psychiatry and how Psychiatry is ideologically captured by the fact that they are trained in medicine think about it they go to medical school and they are incentivized by Pharma regardless it's been put out there right like but it's it's twofold like they all of this research has come out that the serotonin hypothesis is false that a lot of these medications why did that happen it's so funny um these medications right like they um they might work in the short term but there are all these things that the placebo effect sometimes it's been proven to work a lot better than the actual medic but the fact remains is that because psychiatrists have built their entire career around being medical doctors and medicine is their first line of thing for them to call a spade a spade means basically saying that their entire career is fraudulent you know and so it's just like and the incentive models are messed up it's like get as many people in and out the door get them medicated you know and and it's the same thing with our government right like the the the incentive models are so flawed now you have to have Lobby money you have to have like you can't really be an a good person in our government and be successful yeah yeah you have to be corrupt in a certain way like God I don't know if youve ever seen the show billions it's so [ __ ] good but it's so good a long story short it's just like this guy is a a billionaire hedge fund person and then you have the attorney attorney general who's coming after him and the whole point of the show is that they're just as corrupt as each other the Attorney General guy thinks that he is like you know the bit the law coming in to hold this big financially corrupt guy accountable and the whole dance between the two and kind of what and I'm not spoiling it because it's it's such a good show and I highly recommend it to anyone because it really makes you think about this stuff it's like this government guy tells himself and goes to bed at night saying I'm taking down the bad guys but he doesn't see that he's a bad guy and he's and and the billionaire guy is going like they're [ __ ] up the government so like I'm going to just do me you know like and he's a bad guy too but they're both bad guys and they're both bad the whole problem is the incentive models they're both corrupt they're all so it's like that's how I see it all like tech companies Psychiatry our government all the incentive models are so messed up that nobody can be a good person and succeed in these incentive models right and and this is why I think the very simple spiritual proposition of being that is a vessel for a soul like if if we could all just operate on that one fundamental metaphysical assumption even if it's even if we can't prove it if we really could Elevate our humanity and our in our status as beings that are on some kind of equal metaphys fo or or even not metaphysical I guess if you are hellbent on being an atheist but if we could put Humanity above tribe above affiliation all of these things the world would be a better place what if the incentive was for the good of all beings right and and we I don't think the way Society is set up right now allows for that to happen or no or you at least have to willingly relink especially in a position of power you have to willingly Rel Lish a lot to get yourself to that place where that's Humanity yeah where that's really your driving force it's it's it's not easy but I think another thing I want to shine a light on here is that everything we've talked about in terms of you know whether it's disclosure or phenomena people have been seeing or experiencing or your own experience is that there's this interesting psycholog I phenomena throughout history where and even the Mr methos episode points to this in that you know people weren't seeing UFOs in the late 1800s they were seeing airships that and and it wasn't just a difference of what they were calling it like they were seeing when they would draw pictures of it it looked different than what we see now in terms of you know discs or orbs or Tic Tacs and before it was flaming chariots in the sky for the record yeah not that there's any and it's so difficult because you can't say that all these things are equivalent or they're all the same thing or whatever but the thing that I think no one wants to hear that I think is personally closest to the truth and is the biggest both ontological landmine source of ontological shock and yet paradoxically Truth at the same time is that whatever is all the words that we have all the concepts that we have spiritual extraterrestrial are probably wrong oh yeah and here and here's why I say this because if you look at what human beings do they have this strange recency bias toward whatever concept is the most advanced that that they themselves have created right so you see it like for instance um if you go back to the 1700s and the deists they're like Oh look The Cosmos is like a great Clockwork there therefore the Creator is something like a watchmaker and this watchmaker analogy is famous enough that if you go to school and you take a religious philosophy class you learn it and now how do we talk about reality broadly a computer simulation right and but it reminds you right the fairies the aliens the right like the it just how these the Divine almost present presents itself you get a Maran Apparition for people that are Catholic and then other people will see gray aliens or right it's almost like that's the morphing nature right and and this is why I think it's interesting that maybe what's going to happen is that if we can clear away as many Concepts as possible and return to a purist view of whatever is going on maybe it's going to start looking more esoteric again and I mean this technically in terms of like how do the Western esotericists talk about this stuff and to to answer that question you have to go back to like Plato and the Tas and the way they talk about it is your favorite place of course right why not you know there's my bias but I really think it's I really think it's true whether this is bias or or Genuine logic is that you get to this place of a uh that is a Harmony combination of really math geometry and Consciousness where some a balance of all things right right right you're getting to this place that's precon that is pure mind with intention and what what does mind with intention look like it looks like a a phenomenon that can be measured empirically eventually set in motion by a non-empirical agent and and if that didn't make sense what I mean is you you can't see the mind at work like in you right now I can't see the mind at work but I know through the prism of what I can see empirically that there is a mind at work behind what is Molly you want to know it just made me laugh you're going to this and it'll make the listeners laugh too so my husband like our inside joke is when someone's really thinking about something because again like you can see when someone's really like when something's clicking into place like zaz will explain things to zaz has like basically been pondering these things since very young age I'm very much new to these things so he's like a Sarah Morgan where it's like she's been like swimming in these Waters since she could breathe um so when I'm doing this stuff like sometimes a thing will like click into place for me and zaz goes you're piecing it all together aren't you and like and so we laugh cuz it just makes me think of that it's like yeah it's like you're just sometimes those things like fall into place and you can really like but again you can't see that happening it's it's it's such a thing that happens in your mind when like those pieces come together it's like reading Yung right you can read it once and then it makes doesn't and then something happens where oh like you get it you piec it together and you're right you can't see it happening yeah and and that's always always true of if you're open to this idea that Consciousness is something like Consciousness is is not just a epop phenomenon of the brain but it's actually you know in a something approaching what the idealists talk about like a cup or it's at least there's some kind of you know there's there's there's a few different analogies but I think broadly we can say pan psychist or idealist is sort of like the covers most of the bases um without getting into massive philosophical Weeds about it but what they all say is that there's something immaterial and that this and like all the way back from the tomus where they specifically say that the Demi urge the Creator is an immaterial quality that is putting things into motion like Sophia right you like the yeah that's I think that might I wouldn't want to I'm doing thing you're like no that's not quite it well she's supposed to be this man like this of widom yeahia like is know right and then there is um because again this just shows like our difference but it's like we can be saying the same thing in different ways like I think I'm with you in terms of like there's the wisdom right like there's the knowledge and then there's this it's the way same reason why you could read something once it makes no sense and then somehow you read it at another time in your life where the right exper experiences have happened to you you've read the right other resources you read that thing and then it there's that mystical thing that allows it to happen in your brain right right because the wisdom's always been there you read it before and now it means something completely differently and it has changed you in a way that you understand it yeah it's like this like I mean again the Pless would say that you like learning is more of a remembering it's this thing that they called Annis and there's plon dialog demonstrate that learning is is actually more of a recalling of something you already knew and it's it's easy to pick apart if you want to but I still think it's interesting do you know this the slave the the slave boy um story no I don't think so it's like so Socrates essentially proves that we already have knowledge of from like forms within the Mind by basically allowing like a a slave boy that like doesn't know math he doesn't know anything but he all he has to do is just ask him logical questions and and the boy figures it out for for himself even though he doesn't have any of the training he just uses his innate logic that he was born with to to show like look geometry math like the we're we're all born out of this stuff and it's not we we're not we don't come into this world as a blank slate and then we learn these things like they're already innate to the way that we think invisible sources of logic and logos that we have in our in our psyches from birth that's very fascinating you know that that's pretty much the philosophy of like Waldorf schools right which are kind of like the Rudolph Steiner thing is like because he believes that anthroposophy is all about like you kids are actually way wiser they they are like these very wise Spiritual Beings and that's why like they um I just listened to an episode of this woman talking about she's a waldorf teacher and she said they don't do any kind of standardized testing they teach things in a completely different way assuming that children kind of like they talk do a lot of like Hands-On things like motor things and all this stuff and talk about myth and whatever she goes we gave our kids just for fun one of the standardized tests um that that Normal public school would get and we hadn't even covered half of the material and our kids some of them test most of them tested like two grade levels above um because they again it like it intuitively made sense for them the information and this is this is a perfect probably somewhat accidental segue because Steiner for people who don't know was somehow affiliated with Rosicrucianism uhhuh and Rosicrucianism seems to be one of those things that a lot of these people who are supposedly in the know about whatever is going on on a deeper spiritual level with the UAP phenomen like um and Jesuits you hear a lot of Jesuit stuff going on there as well and it kind of makes sense that there'd be some overlap between Jesuits and rosicrucians because there is like a mystical Christianity involved in Rosicrucianism but again man it gets so complicated because like these groups are not any long there is no longer one monolithic thing called the rosac crucians like and there never and there never was they say sometimes right like for example like Christian Roan CS like the the figure it's almost like Hermes trism magistus like that he didn't maybe he never existed in reality he's like more of an allegorical mythical figure and so that's I'm very fascinated with the rosac crui and stuff as well and also they knew that's they're very connected to the knight's Templar all these things and like you know they all developed because they were kind of they traveled a lot so they went along like that Silk Road thing and so they like they saw Eastern Traditions they saw Hinduism they saw um they were also very tight with like sufs and uh all of these things and so behind the scenes they again were seeing the Connecting Threads of all of it even though on the outside just like hild theard of bingan just like St Teresa of Avala all these Mystics they played within the the confines of what they needed to but it's like they knew that there was something bigger at play and there were connecting threads to all of these different spiritual Traditions even though they couldn't come out and say it because they would have been burnt as Heretics and they also needed money from the Catholic Church to do all their stuff yeah and even though I think this is a thorny Enterprise let's shine a little light on what these esoteric groups like rosac crucians are and I'm just going to State it like really broadly and and just again I'm interested to hear how you're going to do that I want to I want to explain something that I don't I don't know how often I directly try to explain it but the difference between an esoteric tradition and an exoteric tradition an exoteric tradition would be something like a modern religion where you go to a gathering one day a week you listen to a lecture maybe maybe you talk about some things but you're generally consuming the Bible or whatever religious text as whatever is on the paper is actually talking about and yes I understand that allegory comes into it any thinking person understands that a lot of these stories have allegory built in yeah now an esoteric group there's a lot of different ways you can Define esoteric but I like the very simple explanation or uh definition which is information only for the initiated like information that you will only understand if you've been initiated into something so that you can do let's say with a text you can do the hermeneutic tricks so that when you see a word or when you see a number you know that that's actually an illusion to this esoteric thing that only initiated people know about so now this gets into the closest allegory for um the judeo-christian community would Pro that that's B existing for a while is probably kabala um because kabalists have been around solidly at least since like the 1400s many of them say it goes back further and it's even the most mainstream cuz like Madonna got into it right like so when they so when they read the Old Testament they're reading it as if there's like all these multiple layers of meaning and some of those layers of meaning are only going to make sense to you if you know these I don't know how initiation based really cabala is but there's definitely this idea that of a hierarchy of wisdom that there's essentially this ladder that you go up and you're able to see more of reality and and glean more sort of privileged Knowledge from these texts and they're particularly interested in one called the Zohar that's like this really I've never I've read parts of it actually and it sounds like it sounds like of bibl stories but yeah there's all these layers of esoteric meaning it's just like isn't it like um it's kind of like degrees like for example like if you go into um well I can even give like the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn like the ceremonial magic like as soon as you're you or and you can even do like um I just listened to this thing about this cult um there's actually a lot of really culty [ __ ] that happens in Buddhist uh communities right and I was reading about this particular culty Buddhist sect and it's like initi initiates essentially like they aren't called that but people who go into the ashram at first they're just cleaning the floors right and they're kind of like hearing some of the lectures and it's like slowly but surely As you move up you learn more and more and more and more and then by that time even if you see some of the corruption it's like you're so deep in that you actually kind of like buy it that's more of the culty aspect and then you see like like um the Freemasons right you start as a first degree second degree third degree it's like and again what are you doing you're getting closer to the esoteric heart of that stuff yes right yeah and and then the more Yeah the more structured fraternal orders whether they're actually practicing rituals that they believe to be magical or not or they're just initiations that um are psychological and hazing yeah yeah yeah but I think like a I don't want to short shrift things like Freemasons because I think I do think the sorts of initiations they do are probably extremely impactful and very very life altering for people who go through them earnestly like I'm sure it's I'm sure it's just like anything where some people go through it and they're just kind of like pantomiming and then there are some people who probably have like extremely deep revelatory experiences when they go through those things I agree I I don't want to like a lot of this stuff is out there and I do know what some of the initiations are and I've probably said them before but whatever for whatever reason I'm in the spirit right now where I don't want to be a I don't want to be a craft spoiler and like you know and say what these things are but the idea is that yeah you you change as a being by going through these degrees of revealing and in a lot of them you're you're either acting something out like a drama out or in something like the Order of the Golden Dawn which again is not a monolithic thing anymore um and there are if you like Google it yes you will find organizations called that but it is no longer the original Organization no and anyway the idea is it's just how things devolve and degrade over time you know what I mean like things things really do degrade over time it's just how when I was speaking to um a previous guest who I won't name because he's also been on your podcast um but basically uh Actually I don't even think he cares but long story short we're talking about the Yung Institute and he was saying how even um yian circles have devolved and degraded over time like it's like they've become very dogmatic and you know like they've moved they've actually split up into different sect and some of them believe this you don't want to say who this is I actually I don't think he cares Lawrence uh Lawrence yeah yeah yeah because I was telling him that I thought that I was really interested and potentially like my dream was to kind of maybe go to Zurich one day and he was just kind of like I think the magic is kind of lost you know what I mean and interestingly I'm working with an analyst now who also went to Zurich and she I confided and her about that just in our last session and she said the same thing she's just like it's just become such a things degrade I just listened to a really long podcast end of civilizations podcast by the way is an amazing one and it's like a 4-Hour episode on the Egyptian civilization and and and how you know and watching the way that again their their wisdom traditions and their their mystery Traditions devolved and degraded over time because of power and you know corruption and then someone got into power and said I'm going to make my I'm going to make a God that's specific to me and like you know what I mean and like I'm going to keep this part but take away this part it's like a game [ __ ] up game of telephone and I think a lot of these esoteric uh orders there's an element of that where it's just like by the nature of time and degradation and again these in [ __ ] up incentives and the human ego they just degrade yeah yeah there's definitely a lot of like idea and culture bashing and mashing and mixing and sometimes skilled mixing I think is alchemy yeah bad mixing is just like nonsense you know and and that's I don't want to believe this part so I'm going to believe this part it goes back to like our Senators in the in the skiff or whatever hearing about these things right it's just there was once truth in part of it and then it then then it gets tainted and and falls apart over time right right so to finish the the rant about what Rosicrucianism broadly is yeah it it it fits within this tradition of these esoteric hermetic groups that descend from platonism and hermeticism and they use that language and to and again it's kind of like I guess I have to Define what those things are but that I can't do it within the confines of this podcast it's already an hour and 40 minutes long but I do recommend that people go down the rabbit hole yes go down the rabbit hole for sure but if I said if if I had to say read one thing to help you understand where these ideas come from one is Plato tus it's a very difficult read Michael holy [ __ ] the most unapproachable it it's unapproachable but it really is like one of the old sources for these ideas like correspondence and and what you are as a being metaphysically how you're related to the cosmos how you're related to God what God is these ideas are all inherited by later Traditions like hermeticism and the second thing I would say to read is the pandre which is in the Corpus herum which is this story where this mythological or maybe not mythological but this titular figure of Hermes Tri Magista has a vision of the Divine logos and it explains to him how all of reality is created and constructed and uses all of these things that we now all say like you know things like the As Above So Below relationship between the microcosm human and the macrocosm but that that's also goes all the way back to Plato tomus but anyway once you download that packet of ideas and then broadly understand that I want to find a way to participate in this where these aren't just stories but I'm having these Revelations that's where these groups come along that they purport to be able to get you into these states of Mind where you can see and feel these things for yourself and they happen in different cultural contexts at different times so like the rosac crucians this is happening in a post-christian world so it's a Christian informed kind of hermetic mysticism that again so this is like what I would think is a more skilled alchemical kind of culture bashing and mashing and once you start to get to more modern stuff where you're getting into new age and you're getting into all of these things where a lot of the people participating in these ideas and propagating these ideas don't know where they come from and that's the degradation as exactly exactly that's the degradation I understand why you go to the tus and stuff too because it's like at least try to go to like the earliest source code but that's the thing right when I I I even scoff and I'm like ah it's so unapproachable and that's the thing if you don't go to the earliest thing you can find what you're getting is other people's game of telephone along the line 100% and the good news is is there's a lot of you know videos and podcasts like I talk about the secret history of westernness of terrorism a lot that will such a good podcast so good and it is still kind of the deep but if you want a real clist scholar person who's obsessed with esotericism like he's going to give you the he doesn't put a spin on it either he just delivers it it's like it's hearing someone who has studied this so much it takes away the like what the [ __ ] am I reading thing and it's like he's breaking it down in a really digestible way that's actually such a good suggestion I think that that's actually almost better than saying go read these things because start with episode of theep podcast right yeah yeah yeah and I love I love giving little like hopefully bumps to shows that that podcast and I was like and I have to admit I'm probably sitting in your listener shoes where that was very approachable for me to start cool yeah cool yeah and and I think so it so once you I guess what I'm saying is that if you if you're listening to all of this stuff that we're talking about even on up to trying to sense make things like something as bleeding edge as the UFO phenomenon and paranormal phenomenon that seem to be substantiated you probably will get a lot out of revisiting the sort of history of esoteric ideas yeah that's right because the thing is the reason why I was able to have all of these like I had done a lot of this stuff before I went to the blood so and the reason why also that Ryan even answered my message is because he would of all of these random articles I sent him through my Western es esoteric and how guess me and Ryan connected because of like early on it was rosac crui and stuff and he's very fascinated with that and um I some of the stuff I found was like again Magdalene related which by the way the Magdalene and Magdalene worship and all this stuff is very deeply connected to rosac chanism and all of these things and that's one of the reasons why he answered my DM is because he went ah like you're following the same threat as me yeah and when you research this stuff and you start reading it some of the things that seem absurd it's like you can see through these [ __ ] up filters that uh you know the the Congress people even the people that are experiencing these things and they don't understand it it's going like I see I see the threat of all of this and there's so many different things that sound similar and like they could go together that it's almost like there's this I give the example of like you know that Charlie Always Sunny meme where he's like connecting all the dots together you start to feel like that you start and then and then it's not like you're not skeptical because again you still are and again you have to have a healthy level of skepticism I still maintain my skepticism but the thing is is that there's too many connecting threads to to deny that there's something going on yeah and then you have to accept The Cloud of Unknowing yes yeah this whole that's one of the other things is that if you're looking for things to become clear on this path they won't forget it like it's all in the if I really think that if you're able to maintain any level of objectivity you sort of have to admit that this is all occurring within the chapel parous except though I mean when you have an experience like what you had I I don't think I would feel that way anymore I would think like I'm in a place with other people who are seeing what I'm seeing they're experiencing this but you want to know what it still doesn't make me any less confused and scared of things like death and the and the the the weight of the foreverness and like losing people that I love and also like you said wondering why people suffer so much and die of cancer and like even when calling out for God you know it's like so even if you experience what I experienced and I know what I know I still don't I still as a human want to know exactly why like I want to know when I'm going to know more I want to know exactly the answers and having to accept that I just my my yian analyst again she's also very much into the spiritual Traditions uh she spent a lot of time in India and she was telling me how I had to rest In the Still Point she's like always you're going to find yourself saying it has to be this or that I have to do this or that I want to know the answer to this and she goes the moment that you move up into the higher level of Consciousness and is when you rest In the Still Point yeah I like that right and and I was like [ __ ] you know like I'm bad at that yeah and cuz not only can I not Rest In the Still Point from an emotional standpoint CU I'm a very fiery person I have a hard time not saying the thing like right but then also intellectually it's like you right where and I'm the same where it's like I have to know how can I just rest and say it's okay that I don't know right I don't I don't know yeah it is hard it is hard but ironically doing just that she believes is what allows you to know more I think so I I do think so and that's part of the reason why I've over all of these years of being introduced to all of the obvious and then also all of the most farflung possible paths I've tried to maintain some level of distance from almost everything while at the same time trying to participate in the elements of these things that I feel like are important and Y to speak to this like what you said about resting in The Still Point and also I think it pertains to what I'm saying is that there's a line I think I think it's from the r book but he's he's talking about the necessity or maybe it's a quote from inner work by Robert Johnson but he I believe it is a y quote but he basically says that you have to find a way to put the psyche at like the sort of center of the cross I think he uses a cross analogy in that it's not being captured by the archetypes or the Shadow or the outside world or all any of these things it's in the center and it understands that it's sort of like balancing all of these forces and needs to be a mindful conduit for all of these relationships that are going on and staying at the center and not being pulled too far in any direction I think is one of the most important things you can do it's the true spiritual task yes it is but at the same time it also I think precludes you from arriving at any final answers and Yong himself demonstrates this because you know like in his whole I know God thing and the way that he um so this look what happens when we as a society anytime have said I've got the answer that's when the degradation happens right yep let me systematize this let me systematize this s every single [ __ ] time yeah so that's it Mary and Woodman and maybe that's a beautiful way to tie it up right is like yeah hold the tension of the Opposites you don't have to know stay in the Still Point and then the irony of that is that's when you know more right yeah if you're in the paradx if you're in the confusion if you're in the agnostic mysticism you're as close to the fire as you're allowed to be some and if you start feeling like you've got it figured out or you happen to be like uh tempted to pay someone who claims that they have got it figured out that's that's like the lit Miss test of saying whoa pump the brakes right like they actually don't they the more they think they have it figured out the less you should be subscribing to whatever they're doing 100% And 100% that's like you that's why I respect you as a friend I respect your skepticism you know and um I think you and I also represent a very good balance you know because you are very focused on figuring out the intellectual aspect of it all to a certain extent and you've done so much of this reading and you've been diving into this for so long and I came to this so newly right like but interestingly even though we approach these things we're again coming to some of the same conclusions which reminds me and it's why I get so pissed off whenever you hear like people saying like young is culturally culturally appropriating Concepts from other cultures and I go but what if we see this in a different way there is this Universal wisdom and people people have nosis Okay and like it doesn't belong to anyone it doesn't belong to any culture it is literally there and it manifests in different ways because say for instance you are a desert indigenous person you have the desert creatures there you have the technology available to you and so that Divine wisdom is going to manifest in a certain way and it's going to manifest differently to The Druids who have wells and deep Rivers but but at the end of the day when you put two of these Elders together are they appropriating each other's ideas no they literally have coming to some of the same conclusions because there is a a higher truth out there that we are getting trickle fed if we are open to releasing our hold and our grasp on saying it needs to be this or that so well said I can't add anything to that that was I'm so with this idea of this beautiful Immortal perennial philosophy that you can see at work in all true Traditions but also is higher than all of those Traditions than anything that's it that is 100% yeah I don't want to say the b word I don't want to say what I believe in but that's the only thing I care about that's the only truth that that I after me too because nothing else makes sense to me and even that doesn't make any [ __ ] sense right right but it's as close as you can get right yes so good Molly this has been such a fun one oh always exceeded my expectations which were already hope we didn't annoy of you too much interrupting each other oh they love it your interrup especially when I interrupt especially when I interrupt it's their favorite thing Molly specifically asked me to interrupt her a lot during this I said please that's my Kink I have an interruption Kink it really just gets me me going I love it you're like what an awkward way to end no I love that that's a perfect end

Channel: THIRD EYE DROPS

Views: 48,252

Keywords: paranormal hotspots, chris bledsoe, paranormal podcast, paranormal experience, ufo encounters, ufo podcast, philosophy podcast, psychology podcast, carl jung psychology, carl jung philosophy, diana pasulka, Mollie Adler

Id: sji9Phd0gSk

Length: 114min 1sec (6841 seconds)

Published: Thu Mar 21 2024