The Confession of Nat Turner | Read by Brock Peters (1968) | John Henrik Clark

agreeable to his own appointment on the evening he was committed to prison with permission of the jailer I visited nad on Tuesday the first of November when without being questioned at all he commenced his narrative in the following words sir you have asked me to give a history of the motives which induced me to undertake the late insurrection call it to do so and go back to the days of my infancy and even before I was born I was 31 years of age the second of October last born the property of Benjamin Turner of this county in my childhood a circumstance occurred which made an indelible impression on my mind and laid the groundwork of that enthusiasm which has terminated so fatally too many both black and white and for which I am about to atone at the gallows it is here necessary to relate this circumstance trifling as it may seem it was the commencement of that belief which has grown with time and even now sir in this dungeon helpless and forsaken as I am I cannot divest myself of being a play with other children when three or four years old I was telling them something which my mother overhearing said it had happened before I was born I stuck to my story however and related some things which went in her opinion to confirm it others called on were greatly astonished knowing that these things had happened and caused them to say in my hearing I surely would be a prophet as the Lord had shown me things that had happened before my birth and my father and mother strengthened me in this my first impression saying in my presence I was intended for some great purpose which they had always thought from certain marks on my head and breast my grandmother who was very religious and to whom I was much attached my master who belonged to the church and other religious persons who visited the house and whom I often saw at prayers noticing the singularity of my Nana's I suppose and my uncommon intelligence for a child remarked I had too much sense to be raised and if I was I would never be of any service to anyone as a slave to a mind like mine restless inquisitive and observant of everything that was passing it is easy to suppose that religion was the subject to which it would be directed and although this subject principally occupied my thoughts there was nothing that I saw or heard of to which my attention was not directed the manner in which I learned to read and write not only had great influence on my own mind as I acquired it with the most perfect ease so much that I have no recollection of whatever of learning the alphabet but to the astonishment of the family one day when a book was shown me to keep me from crying I began spelling the names of the different objects this was a source of wonder to all in the neighborhood particularly the blacks and this learning was constantly improved at all opportunities when I got large enough to go to work while employed I was reflecting on many things that would present themselves to my imagination and whenever an opportunity occurred of looking at a book when the schoolchildren were getting their lessons I would find many things that the fertility of my own imagination had depicted to me before all my time not devoted to my master's service was spent either in prayer or in making experiments in casting different things in molds made of earth in attempting to make paper gunpowder and many other experiments but although I could not perfect yet convinced me of its practicability if I had the means I was not addicted to stealing in my youth nor have ever beamed yet such was the confidence of the Negroes in the neighborhood even at this early period of my life in my superior judgment that they would often carry me with them when they were going on any robbery to plan for them growing up among them with this confidence in my superior judgment and when this in their opinions was perfected by divine inspiration from the circumstances already alluded to in my infancy and which belief was ever afterwards zealously inculcated by the austerity of my life and manners which became the subject of remark by white and black having soon discovered to be great I must appear so and therefore studiously avoided mixing in society and wrapped myself in mystery devoting my time to fasting and prayer by this time having arrived to man's estate and hearing the scriptures commented on at meetings I was struck with that particular passage which says seek ye the kingdom of heaven and all things shall be added unto you I reflected much on this passage and prayed daily for light on this subject as I was praying one day at my plough the spirit spoke to me saying seek ye the kingdom of heaven and all things shall be added unto you what do you mean by the spirit the spirit that spoke to the prophets and former days and I was greatly astonished and for two years prayed continually whenever my duty would permit and then again I had the same revelation which fully confirmed me in the impression that I was ordained for some great purpose in the hands of the Almighty several years rolled around in which many events occurred to strengthen me in this my belief at this time I revert it in my mind to the remarks made of me in my childhood and the things that had been shown me and as it had been said of me in my childhood by those by whom I had been taught to pray both white and black and in whom I had the greatest confidence that I had too much sense to be raised and if I was I would never be of any use as a slave now finding that I had arrived to man's estate and was a slave and these revelations being known to me I began to direct my attention to this great object to fulfill the purpose for which by this time I felt assured I was intended knowing the influence I had obtained over the minds of my fellow servants not by the means of conjuring in such light tricks for to them I always spoke of such things with contempt but by the communion of the spirit whose revelation I often communicated to them and they believed and said my wisdom came from God I now began to prepare them for my purpose by telling them something was about to happen that would terminate in fulfilling the great promise that had been made to me about this time I was placed under an overseer from whom I ran away and after remaining in the woods thirty days I returned to the astonishment of the Negroes on the plantation who thought I had made my escape to some other part of the country as my father had before but the reason of my return was that the spirit appeared to me and said I had my wishes directed to the things of this world and not to the kingdom of heaven and that I should return to the service of my earthly master for he who knoweth his masters will and doeth it not shall be beaten with many stripes and thus have I chastened you and the Negroes found fault and murmured against me saying if they had my sense they would not serve any master in the world and about this time I had a vision and I saw white spirits and black spirits engaged in battle and the Sun was darkened the thunder rolled in the heavens and blood flowed in streams and I heard a voice saying such is your luck such you are called to sea and let it come rough or smooth you must surely bear it I now withdrew myself as much as my situation would permit from the intercourse of my fellow servants for the avowed purpose of serving the spirit more fully and it appeared to me and reminded me of the things it had already shown me and that it would then reveal to me the knowledge of the elements the revolution of the planets the operation of tides and changes of a season after this revelation in the year 1825 and the knowledge of the elements being made known to me I sought more than ever to obtain true holiness before the great day of judgment should appear and then I began to receive the true knowledge of faith and from the first steps of righteousness until the last was I made perfect and the Holy Ghost was with me and said Behold me as I stand in the heavens and I looked and saw the forms of men in different attitudes and there were lights in the sky to which the children of darkness gave other names than what they really were for they were the lights of the saviours hands stretched forth from east to west even as they were extended on the cross on Calvary for the redemption of sinners and I wondered greatly at these miracles and prayed to be informed of a certainty of the meaning thereof and shortly afterwards while laboring in the fields I discovered drops of blood on the corn as though it was dew from heaven and I communicated it to many both white and black in the neighborhood and then I found on the leaves in the woods hieroglyphic characters and numbers with the forms of men in different attitudes portrayed in the blood and representing the figures I had before seen in the heavens and now the Holy Ghost had revealed itself to me for as the blood of Christ has been shed on this earth and had ascended to heaven for the salvation of sinners and was now returning to earth again in the form of dew and as the leaves on the trees bore the impression of figures I had seen in the heavens it was plain to me that the Savior was about to lay down the yoke he had borne for the sins of men and the great day of judgment was at hand about this time I told these things to a white man Ethel dread T Brantly on whom it had a wonderful effect and he ceased from his wickedness and was attacked immediately with a cutaneous eruption and blood oozed from the pores of his skin and after praying and fasting nine days he was healed and the spirit appeared to me again and said as the Savior had been baptized so should we be also and when the white people would not let us be baptized by the church we went down in the water together in the sight of many who reviled us and were baptized by the Spirit after this I rejoiced greatly and gave thanks to God and on the 12th of May 1828 I heard a loud noise in the heavens and the spirit instantly appeared to me and said the serpent was loosened and Christ had laid down the yoke he had borne for the sins of men and that I should take it on and fight against the serpent for the time was fast approaching when the first should be last and the last should be first do you not find yourself mistaken now was not Christ crucified and by signs and the heavens that it would make known to me when I should commence the great work and until the first sign appeared I should conceal it from the knowledge of men and on the appearance of the sign the Eclipse of some last February I should arise and prepare myself and slay my enemies with their own weapons and immediately on the sign appearing in the heavens the seal was removed from my lips and I communicated the great work laid out for me to do - for in whom I had the greatest confidence Henry hark Nelson and Sam it was intended by us to have begun the work of death on the 4th of July last many were the plans formed and rejected by us and it affected my mind to such a degree that I felt sick in the time passed without our coming to any determination how to commence still forming new schemes and rejecting them when the sign appeared again which determined me not to wait longer since the commencement of 1830 I have been living with mr. Joseph Travis who was to me a kind master and placed the greatest confidence in me in fact I had no cause to complain of his treatment of me on Saturday evening the 20th of August it was agreed between Henry Hawke and myself to prepare a dinner the next day for the men we expected and then to concert' a plan as we had not yet determined on any hawk on the following morning brought a pig in Henry brandy and being joined by Sam Nelson will and Jack they prepared in the woods a dinner where at about three o'clock I joined them why were you so backward in joining them the same reason that it caused me not to mix with them for years before I saluted them on coming up and asked will how came he there he answered his life was worth no more than others and his liberty is dear to him I asked him if he thought to obtain it he said he would or lose his life this was enough to put him in full confidence jack I knew was only a tool in the hands of hark it was quickly agreed we should commence at home mr. J Travis's on that night and until we had armed and equipped ourselves and gathered sufficient force neither age nor sex was to be spared which was invariably adhered to we remained at the feast until about two hours in the night when we went to the house and found Austin they all went to the sight of press and drank except myself on returning to the house hark went to the door with an axe for the purpose of breaking it open as we know we were strong enough to murder the family if they were awaked by the noise but reflecting that it might create an alarm in the neighborhood we determined to enter the house secretly and murder them while sleeping ha got a ladder and set it against the chimney on which I ascended and hoisting a window entered and came downstairs on barred the door and removed the guns from their places it was then observed that I must spill the first blood on which armed with a hatchet and accompanied by will I entered my Master's chamber it being dark I could not give a deathblow the hatchet glanced from his head he sprang from the bed and called his wife it was his last word we'll laid him dead with a blow of his axe and mrs. Travis shared the same fate as she lay in bed the murder of this family five in number was the work of a moment not one of them awoke there was a little infant sleeping in a cradle that was forgotten until we had left the house and gone some distance when Henry and will returned and killed it we got here four guns that would shoot and several old muskets with a pound or two of powder we remain some time at the barn where we paraded I formed them in a line as soldiers and after carrying them through all the maneuvers I was master of marched them off to mr. sallow full francis's about six hundred yards distant Sam and we'll went to the door and knocked Mr Francis asked who was there Sam replied it was him and he had a letter for him on which he got up and came to the door they immediately seized him and dragging him out a little from the door he was dispatched by repeated blows on the head there was no other white person in the family we started from there for mrs. Reese's maintaining the most perfect silence on our march we're finding the door unlocked we entered and murdered mrs. Reese in her bed while sleeping her son awoke but it was only to sleep the sleep of death he had only time to say who is that and he was no more from mrs. Reese's we went to mrs. Turner's a mile distant which we reached about sunrise on Monday morning Henry Austin and Sam went to the still where finding mr. Peebles Austin shot him and the rest of us went to the house as we approached the family discovered us and shut the door vain hope will with one stroke of his axe opened it and entered and found mrs. Turner and mrs. Newsome in the middle of the room almost frightened to death will immediately killed mrs. Turner with one blow of his axe I took mrs. Newsome by the hand and with a sword I had when I was apprehended I struck her as the sword was dull will turning around and discovered it dispatched her also a general destruction of property and search for ammunition always succeeded the murders by this time my company amounted to fifteen and nine men mounted who started for mrs. whiteheads the other six were to go through a byway to mr. Brian's and rejoin us at mrs. whiteheads as we approached the house we discovered mr. Richard Whitehead standing in the cotton patch near the lane fence we called him over into the lane and will the executioner was near at hand with his fatal axe to send him to an untimely grave as we pushed on to the house I discovered someone running around the garden and thinking it was some of the white family I pursued them but finding it was a servant girl belonging to the house I returned to commenced the work of death but they whom I left had not been idle all the family were already murdered but mrs. Whitehead and her daughter Margaret as I came round to the door I saw will pulling mrs. Whitehead out of the house and up a step he nearly severed her head from her body with his broad axe Miss Margaret when I discovered her had concealed herself in the corner formed by the projection of the cellar cap from the house on my approach she fled but was soon overtaken and after repeated blows with a sword I killed her by a blow on the head with a fence rail by this time the six who had gone by mr. Bryant's rejoined us and informed me that they had done the work of death assigned them we again divided part going on to mr. Richard Porter's and from thence to Nathaniel Francis's the others to mr. Howell Harrises and mr. T Doyle's on my reaching mr. Porter's he had escaped with his family I understood there that the alarm had already spread and I immediately returned to bring up those sent to mr. Doyle's and mr. Howell Harrises the party I left going on to Mr Francis having told them I would join them in that neighborhood I met those sent on to mr. Doyle's and mr. Harris's returning having met mr. Doyle on the road and killed him and learning from some who joined them that mr. Harris was from home I immediately pursued the course taken by the part gone on before but knowing they would complete the work of death and pillage with mr. Francis's before I could get there I went to mr. Peter Edwards expecting to find them there but they had been here also I then went to mr. John T barrows they had been here and murdered him I pursued on their track to Captain nuit Harris's where I found the greater part mounted and ready to start the men now amounting to about forty shouted and Harad as I rode up some were in the yard loading their guns others drinking they said captain Harris and his family had escaped a property in the house they destroyed robbing him of money and other valuables I ordered them to mount and march instantly this was about nine or ten o'clock Monday morning I proceeded to mr. Levi Wallace two or three miles distant I took my station in the rear and as it was my object to carry terror and devastation wherever we went I placed fifteen or 20 of the best armed and most to be relied on in front who generally approached the houses as fast as their horses could run this was for two purposes to prevent the escape and strike terror to the inhabitants on this account I never got to the houses after leaving mrs. whiteheads until after the murders were committed except in one case I sometimes got in sight in time to see the work of death completed viewed the mangled bodies as they lay in silent satisfaction and immediately started in quest of other victims having murdered mrs. Walia and ten children we started for mr. William Williams having killed him and two little boys that were there while engaged in this mrs. Williams fled and got some distance from the house but she was pursued overtaken and compelled to get up behind one of the company who brought her back and after showing her the mangled body of her lifeless husband she was told to get down and by his side where she was shot dead I then started for mr. Jacob Williams's where the family were murdered here we found a young man named Drury who had come in on business with mr. Williams he was pursued overtaken and shot mrs. Vaughn's was the next place we visited and after murdering the family here I determined on starting for Jerusalem a number now amounting to 50 or 60 all mounted and armed with guns axes swords and clubs on reaching mr. James W Parker's gate immediately on the road leading to Jerusalem and about three miles distant it was proposed to me to call there but I objected as I knew he was gone to Jerusalem and my object was to reach there as soon as possible but some of the men having relations at mr. Parker's it was agreed that they might call and get his people I remained at the gate on the road with seven or eight the others going across the field to the house about half a mile off after waiting some time for them I became impatient started to the house for them and on our return we were met by a party of white men who had pursued our blood-stained track and who had fired on those at the gate and dispersed them which I knew nothing of not having been at that time rejoined by any of them immediately on discovering the whites I ordered my men to halt and form as they appeared to be alarmed the white men 18 and number approached us within about 100 yards when one of them fired this was against the positive orders of captain Alexander Papeete who commanded and who directed the men to reserve their fire until within thirty paces and discovered about half of them retreating I then ordered my men to fire and rush on then the few remaining stood their ground until we approached within 50 yards when they fired and retreated we pursued and overtook some of them who we thought we left dead they were not killed after pursuing them about 200 yards and rising a little hill I discovered they were met by another party and had halted and were reloading their guns thinking that those who retreated first and the part fired on us at 50 or 60 yards distant had all fallen back to meet others with ammunition as I saw them reloading their guns and more coming up than I saw at first and several of my bravest men being wounded the others became panic struck and squandered over the field the white men pursued and fired on us several times hark had his horse shot under him and I caught another for him as it was running by me five or six of my men were wounded but none left on the field finding myself defeated here I instantly determined to go through a private way and cross the Nottoway river at the Cypress bridge three miles below Jerusalem and attacked that place in the rear as I expected they would look for me on the other road and I had a great desire to get there to procure arms and ammunition after going a short distance in this private way accompanied by about 20 men I overtook two or three who told me the others were dispersed in every direction after trying in vain to collect a sufficient force to proceed to Jerusalem I determined to return as I was sure they would make back to their old neighborhood where they would rejoin me make new recruits and come down again on my way back I called it mrs. Thomas's mrs. Spencer's and several other places the white families having fled we found no more victims to gratify our thirst for blood we stopped at major Ridley's quarters for the night and being joined by four of his men with the recruits made since my defeat we must at now about forty strong after placing out sentinels I laid down to sleep but was quickly roused by a great racket starting up I found some mounted and others in great confusion one of the sentinels having given the alarm that we were about to be attacked I ordered some to ride round and reconnoiter and on their return the others being more alarmed not knowing who they were fled in different ways so that I was reduced to about twenty again with this I determined to attempt to recruit and to proceed to rally in the neighbourhood I had left dr. blunts was the nearest house which we reached just before day on riding up the yard Hawk fired a gun we expected dr. blunt and his family were at major Ridley's as I knew there was a company of men there the gun was fired to ascertain if any of the family were at home we were immediately fired upon and retreated leaving several of my men I do not know what became of them as I never saw them afterwards pursuing our course back and coming in sight of captain Harris's where we had been the day before we discovered a party of white men at the house on which all deserted me but to Jacob and NAT we concealed ourselves in the woods until near night when I sent them in search of Henry Sam Nelson and Hawk and directed them to rally all they could at the place we had had our dinner the Sunday before where they would find me and I accordingly returned there as soon as it was dark and remained until Wednesday evening when discovering white men riding around the place as though they were looking for someone and none of my men joining me I concluded Jacob and NAT had been taken and compelled to betray me on this I gave up all hope for the present and on Thursday night after having supplied myself with provisions from mr. Travis's I scratched the hole under a pile of fence rails in a field where I concealed myself for six weeks never leaving my hiding place but for a few minutes in the dead of night to get water which was very near thinking by this time I could venture out I began to go about in the night and eavesdrop the houses in the neighborhood pursuing this course for about a fortnight and gathering little or no intelligence afraid of speaking to any human being and returning every morning to my cave before the dawn of day I know not how long I might have led this life if accident had not betrayed me a dog in the neighborhood passing by my hiding place one night while I was out was attracted by some meat I had in my cave and crawled in and stole it and was coming out just I returned a few nights after two Negroes having started to go hunting with the same dog and passing that way the dog came again to the place and having just gone out to walk about discovered me embarked on which thinking myself discovered I spoke to them to beg concealment on making myself known they fled from me knowing then they would betray me I immediately left my hiding place and was pursued almost incessantly until I was taken a fortnight afterwards by mr. benjamin Phipps in a little hole I had dug out with my sword for the purpose of concealment under the top of a fallen tree on mr. Phipps is discovering the place of my concealment he cocked his gun and aimed at me I requested him not to shoot and I would give up upon which he demanded my sword I delivered it to him and he brought me to prison during the time I was pursued I had many hair breath escapes which your time will not permit me to relate I am here loaded with chains and willing to suffer the fate that awaits me the Commonwealth versus nat turner charged with making insurrection and plotting to take away the lives of divers free white person's and so forth on the 22nd of August 1831 the court having met for the trial of nat turner the prisoner was brought in and arraigned and upon his arraignment pleaded not guilty saying to his counsel that he did not feel so on the part of the commonwealth Levi Walla was introduced to being sworn deposed agreeable to Nats own confession Colonel Tresvant the committing magistrate was then introduced to being sworn numerated Nats confession to him as given the prisoner introduced no evidence and the case was submitted without argument to the court who having found him guilty Jeremiah Cobb Esquire chairman pronounced the sentence of the court in the following words nat turner standup have you anything to say why sentence of death should not be pronounced against you I have not I have made a full confession to mr. gray and I have nothing more to say attend then to the sentence of the court you have been arraigned and tried before this court and convicted of one of the highest crimes in our criminal code you've been convicted of plotting in cold-blood the indiscriminate destruction of men of helpless women and of infant children the evidence before us leaves us not a shadow of a doubt but that your hands were often imbued in the blood of the innocent and your own confession tells us that they were stained with the blood of a master in your own language too indulgent could I stop here your crime would be sufficiently aggravated but the original contriver of a plan deep and deadly one that can never be affected you managed so far to put it into execution as to deprive us of many of our most valuable citizens and this was done when they were asleep and defenseless and the circumstances shocking to humanity and while upon this part of the subject I cannot but call your attention to the poor misguided wretches who have gone before you they are not few in number they were your bosom associates and the blood of all cries aloud and calls upon you as the author of their misfortune yes you forced them unprepared from time to Eternity borne down by this load of guilt your only justification is that you were led away by fanaticism if this be true from my soul I pity you and while you have my sympathies I am nevertheless called upon to pass the sentence of the court the time between this and your execution will necessarily be very short and your only hope must be in another world the judgment of the court is that you be taken hence to the jail from whence you came thence to the place of execution and on Friday next between the hours of 10:00 a.m. and 2:00 p.m. be hung by the neck until you are dead dead dead and may the lord have mercy upon your soul Brock Peters haven't heard your reading of the confessions of nat turner i wonder if you would enlighten us on whether indeed you felt that you were reading the confessions of nat turner are the confessions of thomas gray who recorded NAT Turner's confessions whether you felt Grey's intrusion upon the confessions at what point did you feel that nat turner was being interpreted by gray or over interpreted or intruded upon by gray well I have just concluded reading them and it would be difficult for me to go back to the point at which I definitely was sure Thomas Grey's intrusion one of the points that I can certainly remember is the use of the term murder as Greg gave it to nat turner and it is here that I have grave doubts that Matt Turner would have used the term rota given the enlightenment he had come to through his life I think he would have known that the term murder is a legal term which indicates guilt and if in fact he was the dedicated man that history indicates he could not have used the term murder he might have done as any heroes in in I in man's history I have done and they have used the terms destroy or kill or slaughter but they've never acceded to or admitted the term murder and at this point I felt that there was the effort to interpret or to perhaps influence those who would in future or immediately thereafter read the confessions the other point that disturbed me greatly that comes readily to mind is there seemed to be for me and a great effort on the part of gray or an excessive dealing with the religious now it may well have been that Nat Turner was religious but Grey's leaning so heavily on the religious seemed to me an attempt to allay the fears of the white community of the time so that they could feel that this was a religious fanatic and not indeed a man who was capable of the power of logical concentrated thought a pragmatist if you wish that in fact there might be others like him and I feel this again as an intrusion by Thomas Gray I'd like to know from dr. Decker who is a historian who has written a major work on the net Turner rebellion who exactly was Nat Turner and what is his significance for today we are know a fairly good deal about nat turner and his rebellion there were of course many conspiracies and many rebellions the unique thing about the Turner one is the very considerable documentation which exists when Turner was executed he was a man of 31 years he was born and raised in this Tidewater County of Virginia Southampton County which had a very considerable slave population slightly in excess of the white population and by the way a considerable relatively considerable free Negro population it had been a county where many Quakers had lived but most of them had moved out by about 1810 now Turner was a slave as were hundreds of thousands of others he seems to have been more gifted than many of his neighbors and friends and fellow slaves he also clearly had a family life and knew his father knew his mother knew his grandmother and they influenced him his father had to run away from slavery and made it stayed away successfully now Turner is clearly of course a product of his status as a slave in his times that the times of one of economic depression a massive development of the anti-slavery movement in Britain slave uprisings in the West Indies which were reported the beginning of the so-called Negro convention movement the first national one 1830 David Walker's great cry for freedom published in 1829 and circulated in the South the appearance of the Liberator the first number in January 1831 so that he his rebellion of August 1831 comes in this period of economic depression of great political turmoil and risings so that by the way the whole slave suppression machinery was intensified by the masters in this period the federal forts were reinforced in Virginia in Louisiana in the spring of 1831 new laws of repression were passed beginning about 1829 now mr. Peters mentioned the religiosity of Turner but actually of course this religiosity was pretty Universal at that period not only in the south among slaves and non slaves and masters so that this kind of thinking kind of rhetoric was perfectly conventional in the south and in the North I might remark in connection with this and the authenticity of this path which was published in 1831 that the masters didn't like it and they suppressed it they the police went after it and burned it and destroyed it it's a very rare pamphlet now there are only three or four copies of the original printing it was reprinted later but so that whatever intrusion there was and no doubt verbally there was the the essential authenticity comes through and of course Turner's insistence on his not being guilty and this tremendous line where chained to the walls of a Virginia jail and about to be hanged he says to the face of the white man was not Christ crucified this is simply a shattering kind of thing well that that's something of Matt Turner I think I'm trying to see NAT Turner's rebellion in context with his period some writers tend to indicate that it was a rebellion that was born in isolation and I seem to maintain that the period was rebellious and that the atmosphere a rebellion was so prevalent around him he could have pulled stimuli from the age he lived at and it is this that we would like to to look into because the Haitian Revolution had already occurred and other slave revolutions had already occurred and surely he must have known about them well we can conjecture that he did of course there is no way to be certain he did but you are quite right absolutely in the point you are making in this sense the slave rebellions here came in waves and for instance 1790 18 - is one such wave now 1827 1832 is another such wave this is why for instance as I said the state of Louisiana and the state of Virginia reinforced its machinery every pressure and why the Secretary of War sent more troops down and why they passed more laws of repression very much like now that the summer of 1968 is about to appear you have all sorts of advocates of repression and tanks and mace and God knows what else it was not dissimilar in 1829 30 and 31 and there were several conspiracies and uprising the original reports of the turner rebellion in the contemporary press stated that they assumed this rebellion was one of a series of outbreaks that had marked the Tidewater region and particularly forays by Maroons in the Great Dismal Swamp which is in Southaven County which had been disturbing the slaveholding class so that from that point of view contemporaries themselves I mean the white press thought that the turner rebellion was simply another in a whole series of such rebellions in this period so you are quite right absolutely no question about it that this was in the context internationally as well as nationally of rising unrest of the slave population I'm intrigued by the word maroon because the largest slave revolt in Jamaica was led by the arm by the Maroons and further I'd like to go into I have both you and Brock go into the the contemporary significance of the interpretation of of that Turner and why the prevailing interpretation in a popular novel is so contrary to the historical documents relating to Nat Turner could we be reading a contempt worth fear into a 19th century situation is it that's exactly the reason I referred to the religiosity in the first I felt that given the fact that perhaps not Turner gave a negative answer to Thomas gray about the connection of the rebellion that he had led with any others the possible connection with others Turner was probably and that his gray was probably not satisfied for me in reading the document I felt that grade interpreted heavily on the side of mystique mystical things of metaphysical things of religious rather than the clear cold planning that must have gone into this and as evidenced by what NAT says about meeting with the the men he met with they're sitting and talking over the dates and disagreeing about the time and then finally coming to a decision based on certain holidays etc they had to have been cold cold thinking and planning in this and driven by their desire to be free the Honourable the great desire to of all men to be free but am I wrong in in feeling that this is there was an effort by gray to to play that down and to play up the religious so that people would feel that out of religion out of a kind of fanaticism out of a kind of mystical thing this had happened and not out of the kind of work that they had not in fact to deal with men who could think as they did at their level well I would say this I think that the contemporary usage of these kinds of symbols in the contemporary work to which John had referenced does this today but I do not think that that was present then I say that again for example the very symbols that affected not the green hue in these guy was noticed contemporaneously and was talked about in the press and the eclipse was two and a congregation south of Canal Street in New York was told by its minister that this meant the world would end south of Canal Street so the congregation moved north of Canal Street that's in New York City as a white-collar gation that's the time and it the symbolism in fact is perfectly natural and his saying was not Christ crucified and so on and then of course you recall John Brown who is who is filled with this and that's the time it's it's the pre-civil war America which is a highly religious society and the verbiage was this but the practicality of the verbiage what it meant and the reality of vengeance and retribution and justice and so on is quite real now it can of course be falsified in a secular age such as we now live in in which these kinds of references sound fanatical or silly or something but not there so I would suggest that that's very real nat turner has always been a hero to all of his people who knew of his exploits in the current work on nat turner he appears to be less than a hero in fact he vacillates between being a revolutionist and an uncle tom once more I think a contemporary use is being made of Nat Turner its personality in order to counteract or downgrade certain are living personalities of revolutionary intent did you feel any of this and the in the contemporary work and in the speech of nat turner i kept feeling that this was a 19th century speech black than men of the 19th century didn't speak this way black men of the 19th century didn't speak this way now did white men of the 19th century speak this way well I I think that's probably true I I don't pretend to be an expert on language and speech in this sense I found it forced but I think what I'm more confident in is the character of nat the real character now he was never broken for example he never doubted himself or his cause not for a minute and when he went to his death a contemporary press noted this is of course the white press the contemporary press noted that he went to his death calmly they say so he says to the court I'm not guilty because I don't feel guilty he says to the interrogator was not Christ crucified he never breaks for a moment he is a hero in the heroic mould which all people who have been oppressed Irish or Jewish of Polish or Russian or German whatever they are have produced this Turner is a giant a remarkable figure in the record of human struggle against indignity and for full equality any work which denigrates from that in any way or makes him doubt did I do the right thing and so on is quite contrary to everything we have in the contemporary record I would like for both you and Rob to answer very briefly whether indeed it is in your opinion that Nat Turner still waits for his proper interpreter if I may answer first I think and I can answer in the affirmative he still does wait do most of the citizens of this country and the rest of the world who who from the non Caucasian populations who want to see who need their heroes and not only for themselves but the large the more universal reason to fall so that they may join the ranks of Heroes that already exists the panoply of Heroes that that have been mounted before us right along and there are black men among them and it is time that we in fact dealt with one honestly I agree very much I would like to say you that the very distinguished Negro scholar on a bone Tom in 1936 did a first-rate novel on another a great black hero Gabriel book is called black thunder that didn't sell very well by the way and was soon out of print but it's a fine book and if we could get anything approximating that there for Turner we'd have a beginning guy I want to say again just think if you could get a person with a genius of breath or of Gorky or old Richard Wright when he was at his best or Dubois when he was at his best to do a play on Turner and to have that scene was not Christ crucified it seems to me you could just bring an audience I don't know just leaping to the ceiling if you did it right with a comprehension of what this meant in terms of a black man doing this in Virginia in 1831 chained to the wall and about to be hanging the next day I mean it is just hair-raising it's it's fantastic in terms of heroism and in terms of symbolism in terms of meaning if you could get that across it'd be a terrific thing in terms of the racism in this country the meaning of it so yes we desperately need that kind of an artistic production the right on our own Bennett in an essay on nat turner has said the Prophet who died in the Jerusalem of America cool and calm sure of the black reconstruction still awaits a literary interpreter worthy of his sacrifice he still awaits an interpreter who will not deal himself out of the game an interpreter who is prepared to give something and to give up something an interpreter who recognizes that the rope has two ends and that you have to bring a man to find a man but we seem to have come to the end of our a very interesting discussion mr. Peters and John John Clark I want to thank you very much for having me here I've enjoyed it a great deal

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Length: 56min 2sec (3362 seconds)

Published: Sat Nov 10 2018