The Case of Michael Rafferty

at exactly 3:25 p.m. on April 8th of 2009 the dismissal bell rang at Oliver Stevens School in Woodstock Ontario and hundreds of grade schoolers were seen leaving the premises yet one eight-year-old was captured on surveillance leaving two minutes later than the rest as she had to run back inside to get her mother's butterfly earrings that were left on her desk her name was Tori Stafford and on that Wednesday afternoon she never returned home she was reported missing by her grandmother at exactly 6:04 p.m. and a missing-persons investigation was launched immediately roughly 7 hours later surveillance footage from a local high school was discovered capturing what police say was the missing child walking side-by-side an unidentified woman Tori did not appear to be struggling in the video and the woman was described as between 19 to 25 years of age white 5 foot 2 and about 125 pounds with a black ponytail the local police made a public appeal for the woman in the video to come forward and Tori's grandparents offered a $10,000 reward for her return a Facebook group dedicated to finding her gained over 20,000 followers in under 24 hours on April 12th 4 days after her disappearance hundreds gather in Woodstock at 8 p.m. to hold a vigil for Tori and her mother makes a tearful televised appeal for the return of her missing daughter over the following week Tori's parents are interviewed by investigators and each of them pass a polygraph test police call off ground searches six days after the child's disappearance after finding no clues nor leads the day after America's Most Wanted features Tori's case as its top story on April 17th the Ontario provincial police take the lead in the investigation and the ground searches recommends the case was then officially classed as an abduction not just a missing person they step up a media campaign by releasing a composite sketch of the woman in the video and then circulate the image on social media and local news outlets on May 19th police attained information that the woman is 18 year old Terry Lynn McClintock who is already in custody for breaching a probation order for a previous drug violation she was transferred to the Ontario Police Headquarters and interviewed at roughly 5:30 p.m. by Detective Sergeant Jim Smith she initially denied being the woman in the video and claim to know nothing about the missing girl but roughly 45 minutes into the interrogation she breaks I think it goes right back to what you said a few times you didn't want to see it but that doesn't change the fact that you saw it's hard to talk about I know it's even harder to talk about in the section part of it okay but you saw it she describes in disturbing detailed the abduction and killing of Tori Stafford stating that she lured the girl into a secluded parking space with a promise of showing her a puppy she was then forced into the backseat of a vehicle that immediately drove away in the driver's seat was 28-year old michael Rafferty who then drove to a secluded area about a hundred miles north of Woodstock he then proceeded to sexually assault and then murder the eight year old with the fatal injuries being four strikes to the head with a claw hammer McLintock drew a rough sketch of the area where Tori was killed which eventually led police to discover the girl's remains she was found with lacerations to her liver and sixteen broken ribs but her eventual cause of death correlated with Terry's testimony as was confirmed to be the result of repeated blows to the head with a blunt object at 7:55 p.m. that evening Michael Rafferty is arrested and informed that he is being charged with kidnapping and first-degree murder he has read his rights and then brought to the police headquarters for immediate interrogation while I didn't grab a chair that's a long fool so that's a blanket for either ok tea I think they might have only put one sugar and I dig out a peg stuff there's a plane going up there we're gonna see really get hungry ok are you hungry now I get you a full meal if you want bacon eggs or no that's okay you can lessen few many questions as we go along but no issues there at all okay I got a few things I'll talk to you about as I told you my name is crest my last name is long you go Michael Michael what's your preference doesn't matter okay I'll probably call you Mike so what's that really offend you just leave it with me I have over a few things here today okay Mike like I say don't be shy you'll find them pretty relaxed pretty laid-back because I've dealt with these types of issues before the Ontario Provincial Police have a highly trained Behavioral Sciences unit and they're subdivision of forensic psychiatry is recognized as one of the best in the world at first you will see the familiar strategy of rapport development the investigator will retain a friendly and almost nonchalant disposition throughout the opening phase of the interrogation the perception of solidarity and respect will make the suspect more likely to cooperate and take things into consideration while the detectives easygoing disposition will also downplay the severity of the crime thus making the gravity of admission far less intimidating you have a question I have no issues getting any food there so if there's something that you want he'll give you some food there's no problems and always say that four equal five minutes but my job is as I mentioned to hear from what's called the behavioral sciences section now we're talking about the missing person one that tore East Africa missing I know you're falling a little bit in the media you follow some little bits and pieces that there was behavioral sciences people involved right then sometimes they were criminal profilers and other members in that well threat assessment that's what one of my roles is as well and threat assessment what my job is is to determine the risk okay what's the risk of a certain situation the situation that we're talking about it you're gonna find here that there's nothing you're gonna tell me to surprise me okay for two reasons one I've heard a lot of this stuff before the second reason is I'm fortunate enough to know what all the case bags are okay so what I have to do is assess is assess what I perceive is is a threat so are you gonna go out and kill more people after this situation okay doesn't my job is to assess assess threat level alright there you know you're you're responsible for what so that's what my job is is to determine okay what's happened here all right staff sergeant Chris loam had been a police officer for over 21 years and was a member of the Behavioral Sciences unit for the last 17 at the time this interrogation took place he was the head of the analysis section this meant he was in charge of criminal profiling threat assessment and forensic psychiatry he indicates that his only purpose is to assess the suspects threat level yet this variety of threat assessment is only applied to less severe infractions with relation to rape and murder the serious nature of the crime means that the threat level is already assessed long before any form of psycho analysis takes place in reality the investigators primary purpose is to gain an understanding of the suspects character and then use this knowledge to try and influence both his reasoning and decision-making before we go through all that people just don't wake up one day and decide this is gonna happen and I know that all right so there's a lot of ideas that go on people's heads at the time and if if I go through and I and I have I go through your history in your background there's not a whole hell of a lot you've been involved in it like is ER right you're completely under the radar anyways I got to go through a few things with you here all right obviously you're you're upset by what's going on you're here for a reason and right back at the beginning the investigators in the case manager the officers charge said that I'm going to follow the evidence and go where the evidence leads me okay and now you're here because the evidences has led the investigators to you all right and I get involved after after that there's been people that I worked with and Behavioral Sciences that have been here from the outset of the investigation but really at this at this point in time saying while I do win and look at your history there's very little on there like so you've flown on the radar you haven't had any major problems with the with the police okay but and all of a sudden you're involved in this situation and it's a serious situation and that's a serious situation I'm sure you're you're quite upset and quite concerned about what to what's going on here alright now the last one I was involved with like this I don't know if you're aware of it was a girl named Holly Jones entranc she went missing and the guy that had abducted her his name was Michael Breer and what he was doing is he was watching on his computer for hours and hours and hours he was looking a teleport to the point that he decides I wanna go try this and he goes and he grabs Holly and he does some things to her and then he realizes what am I gonna do okay any panics he doesn't know what to do because she's a witness now and he says I just let her go she's gonna tell on me so he decides that he's not gonna let her go all right and all I was from something as simple as watching child pornography for hours on end these things happen okay and we can't say it happening close to home Toronto is not that far from okay these things happen all the time all right so what I need to do is sit with you all right you know how I know the who's right why I mean why is up to you but I can actually probably fill in that blank for you but that's not what my rule here is if I'm going to assess risk here and see number one do you even feel bad about what you've done that's the first thing I look for and number two do I think okay he doesn't feel bad so I'm attorneys probably going to do this again because he really doesn't care about it the first time it's happened okay I'm not at all upset with you I'm not mad at you I don't mind sitting here talk with you you'll know if I don't want to talk to you because I'll just simply leave right from from reading about you this to me seems like it's out of character no I could be wrong right you may have you may have been playing this for a long period of time and you may have thoroughly enjoyed this and if I'm wrong then you tell me that all right but I also know that we all make mistakes okay that's why pencils have erasers okay because we all make mistakes it's that simple spending time with you here and if I'm wrong if you tell me what it looks like if you could turn back time there was a few decisions in life you'd made a little bit different all right if I could turn back time for you Mike I would but it's not that simple okay so now you and I have to sit here and face what's happened okay I can tell you what happened I can take you through the day her disappearance okay I mean I've seen the I've seen the video all right and I know that you didn't do this alone and but at the end of the day we've got it got to deal with this situation okay because it's it's a young girl that we got to talk about and if you and I don't sit and talk about your site then people who only think the worst right it's human nature right you've done a night down we always think the worst until we know the facts okay so that's what you and I need to sit here and work and discuss and work through again if I'm wrong you tell me okay but I really believe if you could turn back time you would do this I'll deal with this a little bit different okay and there may have been a Russian they've been exciting for a period of time but then reality sets in you know sitting over the fact of what's happening okay that's what we're doing here just deal with what's happened really at this point what you have left is your word and your credibility and people always think the worst okay till they know the truth you do it I do it is human nature so we're all gonna think the worst until we know why this is happening in your mind and again if it's something we're really quite cubrir where you looked at a lot of child porn and then decided you were going to try it and that's fine if it wasn't your idea then that's fine too but we can't change the case facts are all right you know deep down that this is your chance to get it off your chest so you're not sitting there the rest of your life saying I guess I should have said something all right I guess I should have got it off my chest but said my site because this is your last chance to do it the fact that you're here and the fact that they've already they know where where the victim is okay and they know your steps this is it you have to take the steps now to live the rest of your life this is what you have to do you do not need to talk about this okay it's always interesting to examine a suspects demeanor while being interrogated especially compared to how they most likely were while committing their violation the suspect here is a quivering mess acting like a helpless victim wallowing in his own self-pity while vying for sympathy essentially the opposite of how he was while attacking Tori Stafford it's ironic that the powerless and vulnerable complexion he is trying to portray here is exactly what his victim would have felt at the time she was attacked the sympathy he is trying to garner for himself is clearly what he lacked for the eight-year-old child he raped and murdered I've got a determined as part of my job when all is said and done here do I think Mike's done this is that he's made his mistake he realizes how wrong he a mistake that he made he's willing to look past it or do I have to sit here and say all right my report is gonna see very simple I think this guys are gonna reoffended that's what our job is we deal with these types of situations and the reasons why people do this stuff okay like you say this may have been a thing that you just snap and did something that stuff happens or maybe something you planned for many months I got some enjoyment out of the part I didn't do anything well that's not entirely true like I didn't do anything you can try and cement yourself into that okay any good the investigator wants to come across as empathetic and understanding yet still needs to keep the suspects confidence low he watches for denials and stops them immediately letting the suspect deny his guilt will only increase his morale thus increases psychological endurance and constancy for self-preservation this needs to be stripped away as much as possible as early as possible because by not being truthful all you have left is your credibility that's all you have left okay you're not the only person who's been arrested and charged okay there's no surprises left anymore okay the lease is not even a surprise it's why this happening oh so no the only innocent person who's ever been arrested in charge well that's true there's been people that have been arrested for things where there's no evidence but unfortunately in this case there's lots of things to determine your role in this crime okay the girl who's who's on the video who walks away with Tori has been identified and she's been identified as her aunt or being in your car and the three of you you and her and Tori go to the gwelf area go to the Home Depot okay and the grabbing of Tori there was a was a planned event that you were going to grab her you're gonna grab a girl the other person was going to do it the other person got the girl put her in your car all right and there's other steps that are taken from there okay there's things that happened at Home Depot there's things the things that happen on site and well there's things that happened to Tori all right before she's gone and you're involved in it and you can't you can't master that you can't change people because what's happened is happened I can't turn back the hands of time and neither can you okay there's there's nothing I can do to turn back the hands of time I see I wish my quitter reacted to this situation a little bit differently okay there's no doubt in my mind okay there's no doubt in my mind that you're involved in the abduction okay love Tori no doubt my mind at all I followed the evidence I've read the file okay there's no doubt in my mind we're past that okay and the only concern or the issue that I have is why you did this what caused you to do this was it something you would like to say is it something you've done before and you've been involved in the death of other people and you divide this am i sitting across the desk from Paul Bernardo here I might sitting across from someone who's made a mistake okay and that's gonna be the question that's asked of you all right get you a bucket there just a second you're gonna get sick booth sir okay I've seen it before you're not gonna offend here both of you so you got to be sick Mike or in hit [Music] you're gonna be sick just just grab the bucket they're handy for you you and I need to have a discussion this isn't this isn't a parking ticket okay this is this is reality okay and people have already told you you know this people assume the worst until they know the truth okay and people are going us from the worst of you unless you and I sit here and clarify it okay something's pushed you to do this feeling that you can't just fly to the radar your entire life okay like it doesn't happen but it's not realist I'm not gonna sit tell you that something brings this on when you sit and talk to someone who had a troubled life like Michael Briere and just gets pushed into doing this and panics and thinks what would it be like to to take a kid and touch and rub a kid and then wish you could stop okay and people can and that's the whole issue here right the detective seems to be almost rambling here but this is a common strategy used to keep a suspects mind racing when Rafferty is concentrating on what the detective is saying it doesn't give him a chance to conjure up his own thoughts making it very hard for him to either think up a lie or disassociate from the situation altogether it's a methodical process of breaking a suspect down through mental exhaustion and slowly chipping away in his psychological stamina piece by piece we can't control every emotion all right we can't control some of our urges some of our thoughts none of us can okay and I can't look in the face and say I haven't made a mistake or made a bad decision in life because I have but the reality of it is you and I have to accept that and move on okay because I can walk up there and never see you again like I can do that right my job here is done the job here is done as you'll find out tomorrow as things start to to be released there is no more questions there is no more long drawn-out investigations there already sending people home to spend time with their families okay they're scaling back what's happened because it's been cleared and they know what's happened the pieces of evidence have been gathered so that's that's reality I can't downplay that well you and I need to walk out of here together okay with what happened here you and I have to sit and see this is what push Mike over at the top this is what push Mike to get involved in something like this because if we don't then you sit here on your only you have to take it okay is that necessarily fair all right just sit here on my own anyways and take this to an extent you do yes you sit there and decide am I going to get rid of this and get this off my chest so people understand my sight or am I gonna sit there curled up and keep it in for the rest of my life all right you need to be realistic about this okay you have no battle plan to deal with this great it's happened to spawn a control anything okay if I recall for what am I gonna do or your plan isn't gonna work okay cuz you're not built for this [ __ ] this isn't what's your boat okay you're not some sick bastard right that the system gets enjoyment out of hurting people all right so now you have to live with this okay and to live with it one of the first ways right it's like if someone's an alcoholic what's the first thing you have to do knowledge they've got the issue all right you have an issue here in that there's overwhelming evidence compelling evidence that indicates you're involved in what's happened okay and I can't change that you can't change that at this stage but you need to be honest and you need to understand your credibility like is all you have left all you have left from here on in is your credibility and you sitting here saying nothing doesn't do you a bit of good because no one's gonna know and then all of a sudden ten years in our five years now you decided to say something who's gonna lesson nobody okay this is your chance to say your piece all right like you say if you want and you can see probably I'm trying not to it of respect actually for you but I can sit and get as graphic as I want okay because none of this stuff bothers me because I've seen it hundreds of times okay but if I sit go over what what's happening here with Tori you may not be real happy about it because it's gonna cause you to relive all this crap okay and maybe you want to because I can tell you I've sat with guys that wanted me to say it again so they could hear what they've accomplished I've had them or they want me to say it two and three times because they get a rush out of that I don't think that's you okay you're not some sick guy okay I'm not sitting across from Paul Bernardo okay I know that and I know people that have set across from him okay and I know two officers that have in different stages of their lives okay and I know what he's all about you're not that guy all right but at the same time you can't just sit here and say well this all goes away right this isn't like a list your girlfriend gives you to say here's a list of things to do can you go pick up a few things at the grocery store for me to get some gas this isn't what that is okay this is a lot more serious than that to-do list we need to deal with reality and the reality of it is your credibility is all you have left at this point if you sit there and say nothing everybody's going to assume the worst okay and you may be painted with a picture that you're not real happy with okay I'm the only one that feels like sitting in here with you right there's no investigators lined up in here sitting with you why do you think that is right because they've been working on this room for weeks okay they're tired and they've been away from their families and none of them wanna come in here and talk to you okay I have no issue that I'm neutral I don't have these issues I haven't been away from my family I don't like talking teamplay I've talked to people that have been involved in things far worse than what they're saying you did here far worse okay I can sit and list of things that I've been involved in there people have done things that have been a threat to our national security terrorism in Canada or I dealt with people that have been involved in murdering three people all right I've been involved with people who have abducted and taken life of children I've been involved I've dealt with many people who are sex offenders at habitué and repeatedly touching molest children I've dealt with that it does not stuff doesn't bother me okay but what's going on here is is that you're just in there you're just a big bundle of nerves and you don't know what to do you know whether to sit here shake shet puke you don't know what to do but the reality of it is at the end of the day the evidence is the evidence okay and the evidence clearly shows you're responsible for the abduction of Tory okay and I also know that she's no longer with us okay and you're responsible for that too okay there's there's a sexual component to this as well so you might want to sit and get this off your chest and go through your side with me all right because if I just walk away at minimum that's what people are going to think at minimum but you have some explaining to do okay that's reality I can't change that okay if this is something that got out of control that you just planned on taking and you thought you were going to put her back or bridges take her for a ride that's fine it get it ahead then we need to talk about that okay you need to sit and explain that and say why okay if not then I say people think the worst until they know there is no other way you don't have any other options there's nothing else that you can do to change what's happened to her we can't turn back time however we can explain how things got off the rails whether it was something that happened slowly or just went right off the rails right from then from the beginning why do you think the OPP has a behavioral sciences section this is all the stuff that we do it okay we deal with occurrences that are unusual we deal with situations that aren't regular situations and that's not what this is this isn't a regular situation this is a couple of people that made a series of decisions that hopefully they understand aren't quite right and if they feel bad about I don't think that you're some kind of monster if I did you'll find me pretty candid you'll find that I'll come right up and tell you like okay I don't think that okay I think this got out of control I think it good out of hand okay are you some kind of monster or did you make a mistake here you made a mistake right this is a mistake right monk you take it back if you could this is a mistake right Mike you take it back if you could turn back the hands of time like would you tame this would you do this a little bit different like talking to you if you turn back the hands of time you're not some monster you made a mistake right you take this back if you could this is a mistake Mike you need to deal with this monkey I know that I did not do what you think I did I know you did we're past that you know or past that Mike okay I know you're not a monster if you did if I if I thought your monster I would tell you I'm not gonna I'm gonna be honest with you I wouldn't just walk out I would spend some time with you for that you're a monster just because I want to see what makes you tick you're not a monster all right this thing is consumed you look at you right you can barely eat or drink you haven't touched your doughnut right why is that because your guts are eating yourself up inside okay you can't sit and say that you're innocent you know what's the first thing you do when you get in here you just laid down and curl up right it's all over you know it's over okay you know it's done okay not to be an expert in body language all you've done is later on in the field position since you've been here that's not how innocent people aren't that's not how people that are falsely accused of something is the lies that anything possibly that it's free I haven't eaten since noon it couldn't be that this is all just a huge huge shock to me no there has been any of that at all most probably all of that but it's also a fact that here you're involved in it it's probably all of that Mike okay the fact that maybe you have eaten that much and maybe you are cool there's no question the first thing you said to me was you're cold hungry so that's why you're happy that stuff okay and all I'm willing to accept that maybe that is part of the issue okay but there is a bigger there is a larger issue there okay and it's the issue of the evidence the issue that you're involved in this okay and we can't change that I have no ill will anger towards you I have none you don't - you don't make me mad you don't upset me nothing like that okay the only issue I have is I don't fully understand I volunteered here come here and shoot the show because I've talked to people in worse situations than you okay and like I say you've been pretty respectful with me you're not giving me a hard time you're not being rude to me so I'll sit with you because but you know the reality of it is I can walk away and you're gonna sit and deal with this on your own for the rest of your life you're a smart guy you're not you're nobody's fool you know what you know the situation you know you're in a tough spot and again this is your opportunity to to save your peace but you've got some pretty serious explaining to do here okay in the big picture now with Obie if I just leave you here you got some stuff that you need to explain I have acknowledged already what my thoughts are of you all kind of told you that from the beginning this is a casket okay maybe I'm wrong maybe that's why you don't want to talk you could maybe you're thinking oh you know what Chris you're wrong you know maybe I have done this before maybe I find it on doing plan on doing it again alright I don't think that but I mean you could be sitting here playing you're right how would I know okay I can tell you that I don't think that's the case because I've sat across from a lot of people again that have been through stuff a lot - a lot worse than you you made a mistake not deal with it and we move on I am concerned that you're just gonna sit here oh well take a chance and maybe go just leave it'll all work itself up well possibly this is not gonna work itself vote okay we're past that you need to acknowledge what's caused you to do this and I have never said for a second that you went and took that kid from the school because you didn't that kid was taken from that school all right by Terry and put in your car okay and you were there and you were part of when the kid was drove driven to Guelph okay and the home depot and then from there the kid into the demise of the kid this is the stuff we need to explain it nobody can control your destiny no but you okay I can I mean I've already told you I've already put my cards on the table this is your chance man do you not think you're gonna feel building to feel better getting some of this off your chest as opposed to keeping it there forever you don't I mean I'll sit with you and do this there's no issues with it at all I say I have an old promise that money meant well we just find a starting point we'll do it because you're gonna sit and stew forevers and now I should have said this or shouldn't have said that right it's up to you I mean I've got situations where I wish I'd have told somebody something that I didn't and I regretted my whole life okay situations with family members we used to have said your piece or you should have kept your mouth shut but we all of those experiences but this is your chance to say your piece all right I think you and I should take that chance I think you and I should just sit and have that discussion how's it gonna get worse right it can't and obviously to an extent someone's put you in this position right we need to deal with that you want me to tell you things I didn't do so I so I can get locked up for the rest of my life for this oh I want you to tell me things she didn't did not do it no I'm gonna ask you a question what's your biggest fear or your biggest concern now that you've been charged with this what's your biggest concern here losing my life I wanna know what this girl Terry said okay she acknowledges that she she grabbed Tori and brought her to your car that it was your wishes you sent her there with certain things that you were looking for in a victim and she took her and you guys drove on the highway and did the Home Depot thing when she talked about after the Home Depot to a secluded area you had sexual relations with Tori and Tori was killed this is your time matter this is as good as it gets unfortunately all right this is it I mean I can get into more detail if you want but in a nutshell that's a polite way of saying what the allegations are but if there's stuff there's there's other people here it's happening that means this process what happens happens next after you and I are done talking you go back to yourself what's called a be brought into court and the charges will be read to you again and there'll be a discussion if you get out of custody for for bail and then they may schedule a bail hearing to determine that from there it's a matter of where it goes from the courts investigation will go on for a little while yet there's a couple things it was I told you they need to be done the big picture you're you're facing these charges the reality of it is we can just deal with the issue here just as easy the suspect remains unyielding after 95 minutes of psychological pressure so the investigators commence the next stage of the interrogation they initiate the Mutt and Jeff technique most commonly known in pop culture as good cop bad cop Blake here wanted to see what Terry Lynn had to say Mike Terry Lynn still speaking my partner okay this is a girl you killed all right she's not missing anymore she's dead Terry Lynn was asked today if she wanted to call a lawyer four times she said no all four times she went through two boxes of Kleenex all right she says on the ether April Wednesday the a through April 2009 at 3:30 in the afternoon you drop her off a PV south of fife south of the public school where Tory walks out of each other you get a girl and you want to young she walks up the street you drive up the old-age home you park your car she walks up to Tori Tori he's nice to her she trusts her she holds her hand for a little bit she walks up the street with her Terri Lynne tells her but her little dog gets her across the street to your car opens the back door Tori doesn't like it anymore she pushes her in the car you start driving she said she's freaking out she said she's worried but you she's scared what what you're gonna do she said you guys hit the 401 start driving to Guelph you're parked outside of help she could win for a little while you come up with some drugs she thinks you driving to the Home Depot you park at the end of the parking lot you tell her it's her time returned to get out of the car you tell her to go in there you give her some cash dude you don't want to use your debit card so you don't track it she goes in there she gets garbage behaves like she's told to do when she comes back out and you go driving and you pull into a farmer's foot right across from a house the point where you're even asked her if anybody can see you and what does she do she says she goes for a walk because she doesn't want to see what happens then she goes back yeah I was sitting in the front seat anymore Mike you're sitting in the back seat and she's not liking what she sees so she walks away again then she comes back and you make her hold one of those garbage bags while you put some of your clothes in her jacket and hammer in the garbage bag any drive to a gas station she never sees Tory again if you drive in a gas station you get out you wash up you dump the bag you drive back to Woodstock that's Terri Lynn story Mike that's Terri Lynn story well she follows her eyes out through two boxes of Kleenex and I asked for four times hey you want to call her she says I don't need to call her I feel so bad about what happened I just want to tell you all about it that's what you're up against Terry Wentz a lawyer well you're the only person who can tell us that but then just did ain't gonna be careful I'm like uh some of the [ __ ] she said is backed by not just video but other evidence but also some of the explanations as she gave as well or verified that's that's a little more graphic and I said it but yeah there's some stuff that she says there's like 20 years old you want to tell us your side of the story get rid of your [ __ ] security blanket and start being a man because it's not gonna be her semen that we find on her body we look at the areas underneath the parts of the seat that you cut out we're gonna find her blood do you know how blood works you know about red blood cells white blood cells white blood cells are thinner they look like spit when they're separating from red blood cells they're the ones that seeped through into the phone that's what we get the DNA from skin cells from her rubbing up and down against your seats in your car Torrey Stafford is all over your car all over it and Terri Lynn explains everything that she knows we're going to find you're explaining nothing so I don't give a [ __ ] if you say one more word tell your truth all right we're done well I'm done with you anyway this officer here is trying to understand what the hell you're going through I don't care who are you in the lead investigator here okay Terry wins pull this [ __ ] mom that's gonna be a funny thing for you to say in court is it out there because how is the DNA gonna be full of [ __ ] Mike huh how's the biologist from the center Friends of science is going to be full of [ __ ] how's the pathologist that examines her body gonna be full of [ __ ] explain that to me be careful Mike that's the painters roadie well but there's something you know I can clarify with what she said that let's clarify it but we can't just sit here with a blanket statement that she's full of [ __ ] because there are some things that's truthful and what you saying that makes it takes away your credibility so we're gonna be very careful about this officers got a job to do Mike he's got a different job than I do for my investigation you keep my mouth shut as the best thing can happen so keep on keepin it shut okay the theory behind good cop bad cop is known as the fear then relief response it's believed that when the immediate shift from one emotion to the next is so extreme a suspect can become disoriented and their ability to think critically can be affected this specific state of disorientation makes compliance more likely as the rapid change of emotion can evoke the feeling of uncertainty in a suspects positive response to an oncoming request as a form of coping with this uncertainty this is of course not a guaranteed system and a suspect will not always respond in the desired manner but anyways at the same time what he's saying is right like I didn't watch watch what she was saying and she was very emotional there's no question and she did go through Kleenex there's no Washington and she was upset and there's stuff that she said that I mean it was clearly known ahead of time by the investigators and their stuff that was said that by her saying it later proved up to be confirmed other way so don't its can't say don't you do everybody want but just be careful about that really anyways but if plague Z&Y she said that doesn't change my opinion our discussion spread honest they got their opinions and now he's never even sick illicit activities so they said their piece but I've got no yes but like say this is your chance this is your chance to to see your piece he just pooped enough to say anything more so that's up to you to say that's what he said he doesn't want you to talk to him with that's why I'm still interested in listening to you I want to talk about the part of the school where she's grabbed you can discuss that and see what your thoughts are there why because because of the officer because of what the lawyer said now it's everything I just were you guys gonna have the next I'm not sure I don't know someone runs in here and starts barking you just want me to say whatever you just want me to say things so it's it's open and closed so it's over and Emily that's it this how it is nothing more to talk about no actually because yeah you know actually s not that's your that's fair that's a very fair statement actually but but I got to tell you in this case it's not it doesn't matter so yeah compelled and I'm interested to listen to what you have to say but it doesn't open and shut this case No I'm ready till new why just because of all the different angles and all it I'm just I just don't feel comfortable talking about it so you're prepared then they just leave it like this they're gonna write it up from here see where it goes yep that's the best way to do it I don't know I've never been in this chair before I don't know any questions of me hey somebody can't become care if I need something why would you say that you don't I wouldn't ask me care here for your job you know I could have walked it off fast because you got right here yes I know that you're gonna go back and sit and sleep or do whatever for a while and you'd be better to do it on a full stomach that's all it is to event I don't have to ask you if you want a food but I am prepared to get you food sometimes you can eat and then you can say well look II had an appetite this is how he must have been feeling okay drink his tea this is how he must be feeling forget the pie he's disturbing and are you reading too much into it man I offered you something cos if you're hungry I don't care if you eat it or not right I mean it's up to you it doesn't matter to me the eater you don't eat anyone anywhere in any of your reports what's up that I eat or not eat no this is on the video doesn't matter eat your nuts not to write any report it my report doesn't say the ate or not my report says what we talked about this is a very intriguing moment of the interrogation as the suspect State of Mind seems to be in two places at once he is undoubtedly clinging on to hope made evident by his outright refusal to admit involvement yet he still has situational awareness he knows deep down that his act isn't being bought giving reason for his guilt in requesting food he would have been starving at this moment yet his primary concern was how he would be perceived while eating he is caught between wanting to satisfy his hunger and trying to appear so guilt ridden by the circumstances that he doesn't even care about his hunger here [Music] yes was had a discussion I don't think there's any animosity between us so we had a discuss about what the case facts are and that was that so it doesn't matter to me if you if he turn up it was legitimate offer if you want something all arranged for you yeah there's no issues that way I read too much [ __ ] man do you want something to eat I need something to eat yes get some feet look at me in reality no food was coming the suspect had it right when he stated that the investigator didn't care about his hunger and he wasn't about to go out of his way to get a takeaway meal for a child-killer the mud and Jeff technique although very well executed was unsuccessful on this occasion I'm pretty get down to the facts kind of guy I'm sure you've realized that from her brief encounter earlier all right this is not rocket science I've got what Terri Lynn just told me this afternoon and about you this is your opportunity Terry let's sitting right here tell us she's a liar you've got no problem that's and with her out over the route Terry's a liar that's what you're hoping you know even looking at her I don't need to yeah they're looking at anyway you might walk okay I'm not gonna I'm not gonna pull any punches here okay I'm not gonna try and kiss your ass right detective Smith's behavior in the following moments is not associated with any techniques nor strategies he knows the suspects inclination is virtually set and unlikely to be influenced any further from this point onward the following onslaught doesn't have any tactical purposes related to the investigation the detective has understandably become emotionally invested in the case and proceeds to give the prime suspect the psychological grilling he deserves and I know the guys from Behavioral Sciences they got their thing they're trying to understand why that's what they do you guys all work together yeah we do they're good people they know their job very well and sure as hell I'd like to know why all right I'd like to think that we don't have people walking around our communities who just because they're bored on an afternoon say hey why don't we grab that girl and rape and murderer okay I'd like to think that we live in a community where people think a little bit more about what they're going to do than that do you think you're coming off as an innocent guy do you think you're looking like somebody who's been wrongfully accused here you're gonna see it however you want to see my lawyer or the Lord instructed me to just say yeah I know Mike I know similarly Jacques did you say but that doesn't make an innocent man that makes you a man who was saying holy [ __ ] what am I gonna do now nothing I do is gonna change your opinion so I might as well just follow the Laureus advice well you're right there Mike nothing you do is gonna get you walking out of this police station tonight without being charged with murder and torie Stafford you're right you know how much media coverage just has you know what the newspapers are going to do with this and to your family tomorrow okay you think the cops we're gonna be talking to everybody you ever spoke to in your life that's nothing compared to what the media is going to be doing this is a huge story for them this is the next Paul Bernardo whether you like it or not a girl and a guy kid not be an eight-year-old girl and murdering her that's one of the most sensational things that have happened in this province since Bernardo and Karla it's going to be a frenzy and you and I both know that you know the psychopath is me I have never met one well I just met one tonight I just find it funny how you can how you can go full sure on something when you don't know well Mike when somebody tells me that they were present when a man killed an eight-year-old girl somebody told you that mm-hmm she did okay when that happens okay we don't say oh well maybe after maybe after we go golfing for the week will go and see Mike and see what he has to say it's not the way it works No so let's just pick them up and then say yep you did it because that's obviously got to be the right way to go about things so the last thing I cover off with everybody I talked to in situations like this mic is pretty straightforward okay Rodney Stafford and Tara McDonald have to be notified about this first question out of their mouth is going to be what did they say why they did it I'm sure one of those two will have the answer for you why somebody would do it what are you getting at like you don't really for me but I don't it doesn't matter doesn't know you're gonna talk to him anyways you know what my if you're gonna claim you have no lavalla whatsoever don't play games with me and throw a little hints to see so what comes up in game there's no and there's nobody involved in this except for you and Terry Lynn we're going is that what you said to Tory before you killed her we're done funny man that's what you think this is is funny right here right here I think you're a cold-blooded killer as you and I haven't spent too much more time now than you forest tourism Stafford to spend in your car you could have let her out anywhere along that route you could have you could have killed her without sexually assault here and that's what I wanted to sit across from tonight see what it's like to sit across from the guy who when he abducts an eight-year-old girl it's so turned on by it that before he kills her he has to have sex with her so if you asked me why I'm sitting in this room I'm sitting in this room for Tory making you squirm put you through some of the grief that you put her through that's why I'm in here Mike and I'm having a good time you are a sick puppy Michael eight years old my eight years old but all she wanted to do was go home a little party for her friends because her mom just redecorated her room for that's pure evil but and that's exactly what the judge is going to see that's what you are no remorse no empathy you're just Hollow nice thing about plays you're gonna be spend good chunk of your life yes they actually have glass cells so you know Bernardo can make googly eyes at each other all day whatever you guys do on there it was nice meeting you Mikey sure the rest your life this is the kind of room you're gonna be spending it and it was all for this little girl right here not just Tori but for every little child in Canada that doesn't deserve what happened to her good evening thanks for joining us 31 year old Michael Rafferty has been found guilty of murdering kidnapping and sexually assaulting eight year old Tori Stafford it's been 10 nearly 10 very long weeks of trial in London which is where Laura silky has been covering this story since the very beginning in the courtroom when the verdict was read out there was a collective sigh of yes for each time one of those guilty verdicts was read out through friends and family that came with the reading of each verdict guilty of first degree guilty of abduction and guilty of sexual assault lawyers from both sides of the story came out to speak with us as well their reaction everyone appreciating the justice was done here and everyone of them also thanking the work that the jury had to do for having to sit through this case for as you mentioned Carolyn almost 10 weeks it's been a long and difficult trial for everybody the trial is finally over so that's a good thing but the verdict means that the jury has found that Michael Rafferty did kidnap sexually assault and murder Victoria Stafford and our thoughts are with Victoria's family we have our decision for you to take cases like this it's never easy but honestly I mean somebody has to take them it's I get asked that question more often than almost anything else how can you do a case like this how can you defend such a person the reality of it is that everybody in our system deserves a frong proper and effective defense even even before going into the courtroom there was really a sense of excitement I think a lot of the family thought that because the verdict did come so quickly just just over a day of deliberations they will truly believed that this was going to be a guilty verdict then going into the courtroom that simply continued the relief that went over the set it was really almost unbelievable to hear the the sighs that went through everyone in that courtroom Carolyn both Michael Rafferty and Terry Lynn McClintock were sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole for 25 years

Channel: JCS - Criminal Psychology

Views: 14,839,558

Keywords: police interrogation, forensic psychology, true crime, detective, csi

Id: 1J2YOLQM2Yc

Length: 57min 29sec (3449 seconds)

Published: Wed Nov 06 2019