The Interrogation of Col. Russell Williams

okay we have conducted a number of witness statements in relation to what's happened to poor Alex okay those statements include Monica Roth Gary okay I've just talked to the officer in charge of the case and he's told me to charge you with first-degree murder you know and I know that this don't make sense funny [Music] authoritarian power structure of any military institution retains a psychological emphasis that is imperative to how its inner systems operate the hierarchical command creates a centralized Authority that encompasses a vast amount of behavioral science and refinement the Armed Forces systematically develops its officers to make dispassionate and strategically calculated decisions that in times of war will often have a dramatic impact on both the service personnel serving under their command and for the civilian population inhabiting the area of conflict the importance of conformity and obedience is relentlessly ingrained into volunteers throughout indoctrination and essentially forges a mindset that ensures the fast and accurate transmission of orders and communications there is no room for error nor hesitation in the field of military operations and total respect and acquiescence to any superior is essential this is the reason enlisted personnel are commonly addressed by surnames or nicknames whereas officers are recognized by rank and the higher and officer climbs in the command structure the greater the importance of these hierarchical monikers become david russell williams enrolled in the royal canadian air force in 1987 and was soon promoted to captain by january 1st 1991 from that moment on he would have been addressed as served by his subordinates and captain Williams by his superiors described as an elite pilot and shining bright star of a military he quickly rose through the ranks and was promoted to Colonel in June of 2004 while also being appointed the role of commanding officer at CFB Trenton Canada's largest Air Force Base he was essentially in full command of over 7,000 military personnel all of whom would have then referred to him as Colonel or Colonel Williams without exception this would have afforded him an extensive amount of psychosocial equanimity and confidence and wasn't exclusive to his work life his designated title of colonel would have been printed on all forms of identification and every formal encounter would sanctify this military standing a doctor lawyer police officer or any other figure of authority would recognize and comply to the traditional courtesy of addressing him by his professional rank boosting his composure and self assurance each and every time as his elevated standing and military achievements were accentuated for all to see there was one exception however and that was the day he met Detective Sergeant Jim Smith before clarifying the psychological relevance as to why a senior detective would purposefully refrain from addressing a highly respected military commander by his formal title first consolidate each of the elements and circumstances that led to the crossing of paths between these two profoundly dissimilar yet equally fascinating individuals ten days earlier On January 28th of 2010 Andy Lloyd received a call from his mother around midday stating that his younger sister 27 year old Jessica Lloyd had failed to show up to work and wasn't responding to phone calls or text messages he immediately drove to her isolated home on Ontario's Highway 37 and discovered she wasn't there there was no sign of a break-in yet Jessica was known for leaving her doors unlocked and all of her personal items were still inside the premises including her phone passport and driver's license Ottawa is known for its remarkably low crime rate and widely recognized as the safest city in Canada the local authorities had resources to spare and a missing-persons investigation was launched immediately which included an entire division from the Ottawa police force over 2000 members of the public and even a specialist search-and-rescue unit from the Canadian Air Force the word spread extremely fast across the city through the help of the media and on the second day of Jessica's disappearance an anonymous member of the public came forward with vital information he stated that while driving home from work the night before at roughly 3:00 a.m. he drove past Jessica's house and noticed an SUV parked in a field just a short distance away he stated that he remembered feeling that something just seemed off as it was parked in such an unusual area at such a late hour and he had drove past the premises thousands of times before and not once seen a vehicle before that moment police immediately canvassed the area in question where they found tire tracks in the field and boot prints leading up to Jessica's house they had attained their first two significant pieces of evidence which then became a foundation for the next stages of the investigation police immediately set up six roadblocks throughout the surrounding area and stopped every s viii that passed in the hope of finding a match to the tire tracks they reportedly stopped over 200 vehicles over the next four days yet had no luck and were on the verge of reassigning their manpower from the roads to conduct foot patrols in off-road areas and pathways however at roughly 7:30 p.m. on February 4th their luck did a full 180 as the sports utility vehicle of Colonel Russell Williams was stopped he was reportedly polite and nonchalant about what he thought was a routine traffic procedure and was sent on his way after just 90 seconds unbeknownst to him he was immediately placed under police surveillance from that moment on as his tires came up as a complete match to the tracks found in the field near Jessica Lloyd's house two days later on Sunday February the 7th he received a call from police headquarters in Ottawa asking him to visit the premises for the purpose of answering questions in relation to an ongoing investigative matter the colonel didn't inquire further and agreed to drop into the police station immediately he reportedly told his wife that he would be back for dinner before setting off and arrived at the headquarters shortly before 3:00 p.m. where he was greeted by Detective Sergeant Jim Smith a trained polygraph technician and senior investigator of the policing behavioral sciences unit Harris family the gloves and that's a little microphone make sure there's nice and clear as you can see here everything in this room videotapes and audio tape you have an interview by the police and I'm in a room like this before Oh No for top secret clearance oh yeah there are three types of security clearance for all military institutions serving under NATO confidential secret and the highest being top secret which is what the colonel just specified this takes roughly eight months to be cleared for and only a very select few are given this level of jurisdiction as unauthorized disclosure of top-secret information could cause exceptionally grave damage to national security it took just over 40 seconds for the colonel to remind the detective of who he was and just how important he was it's a testament to his self-conceited air of invincibility and just how assured he felt in the present situation oh yeah the Gasconade is casually acknowledged yet quickly brushed to one side by the detective followed by the informal address to the subject using his first name he immediately sets the stage for the interview and takes the colonel down from his elevated platform for the sole purpose of stripping away confidence this increases the telling signs and body language and intonation when information is fabricated and also decreases cognitive stamina lessening the amount of time an individual can keep a facade before they essentially break placing the subject on an even platform also allows for the investigator to both exercise and mystify his own powers which will serve a significant purpose during the later stages of the interrogation this is all done in a manner that demoralizes the subject while at the same time maintains an appropriate level of rapport and gives reason for the detectives non-confrontational disposition an investigation like this I mean I'm sure you can appreciate it's been big news how actually done Belva way and you know obviously our approach to cases like this is that we don't give up on somebody being alive until you get evidence that they're not so because of that we're treating Jessica's case as an emergent situation obviously so we're fast-forwarding things that we might normally take our time with and that's why we're here on a Sunday afternoon so again I appreciate it we're going to do a pretty thorough interview today okay and the reason for that is because the last thing we want is to be calling people back again and again and again okay so what we're gonna do is we're going to go over a number of things and I'm gonna explain with all those are to get okay I'm a big coffee I don't know if you're a coffee guy ramabai's reneus so no I do that all right go ahead I could definitely add a block yeah they're just black with with sugar all right and again like I said this interview is gonna be very thorough but again I have a simple rule when I talk to people it's I'm sure you're the same way I treat everybody with respect I don't know why ass cuz you're the same for me so what we're gonna do is we're gonna start off by going through what your rights are okay just like everybody else okay they've ever been read your rights before no I'm sure you've seen on TV a whole bunch of times gradually the American version so I'll go with you briefly okay Russell just to avoid any confusion because people do get confused when they're talk to you by the police is that you're obviously under arrest here today okay any time you feel you want to leave here you feel free to do so the doors not locked Reese will walk it down the lobby anytime you want okay although the subject was free to leave at any time there was a very subtle yet highly effective subconscious strategy set in place to try to stop this from happening the detective has sat between Russell and the door you will see this method utilized in almost every interrogation as it's a subliminal message essentially telling the subject if you want out of this room you have to go through me it's been argued that this can act as an imperative emotional barrier that has often prevented many suspects from leaving these areas of which they are most vulnerable and susceptible to incrimination if there's anything that comes up and are interviewed today Russell that that you feel you want to talk to a lawyer boat you just you just let me know right and the reason for that is I want to explain to you exactly what's going on here okay Jessica Lloyd is is one of four cases that we're currently investigating right and essentially what's happened is over the past about four or five months there have been four occurrences that like I said that we're looking into two of those occurrences occurred in September of 2009 and very briefly they were up in the tweet area yeah they involved somebody entering two different women's houses in the evening hours and committing sexual acts okay during 2009 there were 34 break-ins and attempted break-ins in the quiet town of Orleans Ottawa resulting in the theft of hundreds of intimate female garments one incident of rape and one incident of forcible confinement all of these occurrences took place not far from the home of Russell Williams who is now the prime suspect for each of these infractions at the time of his interrogation in November of 2009 a young lady by the name of Maria France como yeah was found murdered in her home and right and we believe that there was a sexual component to that crime as well corporal marie-france como was a 37 year old military traffic technician based at CFB Trenton she was raped and suffocated to death inside her home in late November of 2009 which the colonel was also the prime suspect for at this moment and then most recently we have Jessica loys disappearance okay so essentially when you look at those kind of crimes we're looking at a number of different potential criminal charges all right we're looking at issues all the way from the most serious one which is first-degree murder kidnapping sexual assault break-and-enter with intent to commit sexual assault forcible confinement okay and so what I want to make sure you understand and we've been doing with everybody been talking to is that clearly when we find out who's responsible for one or all of those crimes they could be charged with one or all of those offenses okay whether it's you or whether there's anybody else and that's why it's important that we make sure that people understand what they have to do and what they don't have to do when they're talking to us okay so as I said before any point today you feel the need you want to speak to a lawyer you let me know and we can take you to a room where you can do that in private okay is there any reason you want a cold or no okay these first two attacks happened not that far from my place into evil the second one did yeah we didn't even know the first one had happened but I understand that was reasonably close as well but the second one was was very close yeah so certainly at the time your VP today door to door yeah the analysis of vocal intonation is a tricky thing when dealing with interrogations as it cannot be used as evidence in court yet intuition would give many the sense that discomposure is emanating from the kernel at this moment the way he is speaking comes across as slightly nervous and unsure he would appear to most as being agitated in the manner he is both processing information and communicating his responses this type of cognitive recognition is a difficult thing to articulate into words and investigators simply characterize it as gut instinct which detective Jim Smith would have no doubt been feeling at this moment he would have been almost certain that the man is sitting before him was guilty simply by the way he was talking quiet with a hint of nervousness incongruent with how a military commander would normally carry himself okay yeah and I'm aware of that from looking at the different cases and essentially a rustle in a nutshell that's what we wanted to talk to you about okay those four cases are a concern to us and you know you've kind of almost hit the nail on the head about some of our issues that kind of make us want to talk to - Russell Williams okay because essentially there was a connection between you and all four of those cases would you agree you're back in the New Year I Drive faster yes the colonel is asked to state his movements and activity over the past four days which is known in forensic psychology as gathering pretext the detective wants to get an initial alibi from the suspect before the confrontational phase of the interrogation begins this is the most calmest state that he intends to keep Russell in before he ramps up the pressure and a more relaxed suspect often results in more detailed pretext thus more information to scrutinize and correlate with any changes made at a later stage Friday on the day I was Friday on the day I was at home was most the day I had a stomach flu okay and Ottawa our tweet tweet and tweed tweed is a village in Ontario where the colonel had a second vacation home located roughly a hundred and twenty-five miles from his house in Ottawa okay so we backtrack then so all day Friday you're at home yeah and then what time do you leave to go to the base to sleep there on the Friday night and you get to the base and spend the evening there and get up for the 5:30 yeah okay this week backtrack from there you when did you arrive at your home at the cottage okay I wanted to only get confused between your home and Ottawa on the home you know I have been in tweed a week yeah the week prior now yeah I think that's the kids st. we don't we flew Saturday Saturday night okay so if you didn't have the stomach flu on the Friday what was your schedule that day okay um what would it mean to my schedule just standard schedule the office okay so Osprey for the morning means okay so Thursday night you slept at tweet or you go all right and what do a Thursday during the day Thursday during the day I was at the base again I think it was a pretty standard day I can't recall but ya know if I was not fond so I was in the days so everybody got in early in the morning back in the evening again okay the method of gathering pretext is then focused on the murder of Marie France como yeah I'm not not going to walk you through November but I'm gonna take you to a date that's probably pretty fresh in your mind the day that that reef Ron's calm down do you remember how you found out I do you know ever since an email well as soon as the the off staff and the base learned they told me okay so I got an email I can't remember if it was late at night early in the morning of a certainly I saw it I want to say first thing in the morning because I had just come back from Ottawa I was in offer a set of meetings on one of the days I can't remember what Monday that week we're talking about but ya know I mean obviously y-your people gets killed it gets your attention so absolutely assure me that coming and how did you know marie-france : I'd only met her once she was on a crew I was on just after I got to the base okay you know roughly when that happened though we were on the same crew are you at the time you met her the one time there yep it was soon after I left the base so I don't remember exactly but I would say in the first couple of months over august/september okay now you got that email notifying it is something that happened do you have any kind of a clear recollection as to how your schedule was going that week well I can't remember what again what day that the message came in just a second I can't remember what day today that week but I I'm just think there's a whole bunch of activity spun up as a result obviously I can't remember the day of the week this was the third time in quick succession the colonel stated that he couldn't remember the answer to the question a normal interaction between two parties would most often elicit the person posing the question to reassure the individual it was directed at statements along the lines of don't worry if you can't remember we'll move on or it was a long time ago it must be difficult to recollect would be afforded as a form of consolation and to also break the uncomfortable silence even during a legitimate witness statement some form of emotional assistance or encouragement will often be given especially to someone in the midst of recollecting a distressing moment or time period from the past on this occasion there is no such reassurance from the detective whatsoever only a stoic gaze and not a single shift in body posture during the moments of silence I'm sorry I camera vote day that was but what I what we learned out of the fact was that the the MPs had learnt of her death I think quite a bit after her body had been discovered okay so I think would have another insurgency so if we were to to you know do a similar investigation your background sir sir anything you can think of that anybody may have misinterpreted or anything in your history that somebody might say Russell Williams did this okay very boring what's that it'll be very boring alright because essentially that's what I'm looking at is it you seem like a very intelligent person and I think you can see how a surprise like that would certainly have some alarm bells investigation right okay so the next thing we need to cover off is uh well I'll just ask you this straight out given the types of crime for investigating do you get much chance to uh to watch television show CSI things like that okay so you have an idea of obviously the forensic capabilities things like that are out there what would you be willing to give me today to help me move past you in this investigation what what do you need well would you be willing to supply things like fingerprints blood samples like that okay this is what is known in both psychology and philosophy as a crossroad a moment in your life when a single and often instantaneous decision you make will take you on one of two exceedingly diverging paths in your journey the only two pieces of evidence that police had acquired at this point in time were the tire tracks and the footprints outside the missing persons residence what many are unaware of is that the DNA found on marie-france KOMO was not admissible as her body was highly decomposed at the time of discovery thus making any genetic analysis virtually impossible as this was before the era of the latest DNA testing method known as next-generation sequencing only one of the sexual assault victims had male DNA found on the back of her neck yet this was by far the least severe attack which falls into the bracket of forcible confinement and had no exterior elements connected to the more serious infractions of murder and rape the evidence of the tire tracks would be easily refuted by team as they were a relatively common brand for off-road vehicles which would extinguish the BRD standard of proof also known as guilt beyond all reasonable doubt the only significant piece of evidence were the footprints it was the singular and emblematic element linked to the culpability of Jessica Lloyd's disappearance and notice how the colonel looked down at his own boots as he gives his response to the following requests Footwear impressions yeah okay all right I think that's what we're gonna we're gonna ask you to do all right I told you when I came in here that I know I treat you with respect and I've asked you to do the same for me we talked about the whole idea of how we've approached you here okay the trying to be as just read as possible okay but the problem is Russell is every time I walk out of this room there's another issue that comes up okay and it's not issues that point away from you it's issues that point at you okay and I want to I want you to see what I mean all right this is the footwear impression of the person who approached the rear of Jessica Lloyd's house on the evening of the 28th and 29th of January okay essentially when you're dealing with Footwear impressions we have a gentleman on the OPP who's basically world-renowned his name is John Norman and essentially with footwear impressions you're in a situation where you're you're pretty much in the area of a finger prints okay all of the previous affirmations were fabricated for the sole purpose of heightening psychological pressure footprints are not even close to being as indistinguishable nor incriminating as fingerprints and although Footwear and tire track examiner's exist and undergo extensive training there were none on the premises at that time and John Norman was in fact a regular police officer who simply printed out the images just two doors away from the interrogation room this is a photocopy of the boot that you took off your foot yeah just a little while ago okay now I'm not an expert on Footwear impressions so I rely on the expert what we're impressions are very much like like fingerprint comparisons okay you take a look at this print and again this is one print this person walked through there's several different prints to compare so we're gonna get features off a one print to compare features offer another printing compare yeah these are identical your vehicle drove up the side of Jessica Lloyd's house your boots walked to the back of Jessica Lloyd's house on the evening of the 28th and 29th of January okay you want discretion we need to have some honesty okay because this is this is getting out of control really fast Russell okay really really fast [Music] this is getting beyond my control this relates to the previously stated tactic of the interrogator exaggerating and mystifying his own powers while maintaining significant level of rapport with a suspect he's essentially telling the colonel that he is still a friend yet the power is that he has can only benefit him if he acknowledges the accusation which at this moment isn't a full confession only that he was present at the scene in question the reason the detective asserts the suspects presence at the crime scene while not directly accusing him of the actual crime is for the purpose of affording him multiple options of how he chooses to respond an outright accusation can often lock up a suspect and cause them to deny everything as a reflex response and this often leads to them requesting legal counsel and stopping the interrogation dead in its tracks affording the suspect an exit strategy results in a higher chance of acknowledgment as an example the colonel could admit that he happened to be at the crime scene at the time in question yet think of ulterior reasons as to why he was there it wouldn't be a full confession yet it would get the detective one foot in the door and this primary admittance would then become the new platform for further building the case against the suspect research shows that once a person has complied with a small request they are more likely to comply with a larger demand all right I came in here a few hours ago and I called you the way I caused your day because I wanted to give you the benefit out mm-hmm but you and I both know you're at Jessica Lloyd's house and I need to know why [Music] it's what you need to explain it because this is the other problem for having Russell okay again these decisions are made by me right now there's just you and I both know what they're going to find evidence that links you to these situations you might both know that the unknown offender may leave France Cornwell's body it's going to be matched to you quite possibly before the evening is over okay this is a major investigation the center of Forensic Sciences on-call 24 hours a day helping us with us your opportunity to take some control here and to have some explanation that anybody is going to believe is quickly expiring mm-hmm the narrative technique is a variant of the reframing technique which is when the interrogator reframes the risks associated with not cooperating and also the gains associated with cooperating in this particular instance he's magnifying the beneficial elements of the suspect being able to tie his own narrative to the crimes while also increasing the fear of him having that same opportunity taken away Russell mmm listen to me for a second okay and that evidence comes in when that DNA match when that phone rings and somebody an awesome this door your credibility is gone okay because this is how credibility works all right and I know you're an intelligent person and you probably don't need to hear this explanation but I also know your minds racing right now okay XO side across a lot of people in your position over the years okay the bottom line is is that as soon as we get that that piece of evidence that solidifies it mmm DNA okay as soon as the experts and footwear impressions the expert in tire impressions calls and says yes I've examined those and they're a match mm-hmm it's all over because as soon as that happens or is your credibility where's your believability Russell you know there's only one option what do you what do you what other option is there what's the ocean well I don't think you want the cold blooded psychopath option I might be wrong because I don't get me wrong I've met guys who actually kind of enjoyed the notoriety got off on it got off on having that label Bernardo being one of them I don't see that in you if I saw that in you when you'd be back in you're talking to you quite frankly this is in essence the reframing technique that can also be interpreted as the ego up and fear up techniques combined the detective is heightening the perceived benefits of a suspects character being presented in a better light while also increasing the fear of his character being further vilified but maybe I'm wrong maybe you got me fooled I don't know this is over and you can have a a bad ending where Jessica's parents continue to wonder where her daughter's line I don't know I mean obviously there's a huge search still underway and it'll continue it'll continue until her body's found that might even happen tonight for all I know while sighs are often attributed to sadness and frustration they have also been linked to the fight-or-flight response as the additional accumulation of oxygen is essentially preparing you for battle or to safely run away the thought of a victim's body being found that same evening evoked a subconscious feeling of danger in the suspect which most likely resulted in this anatomical reaction once that happens then I don't know whether card you would have to play what are we gonna do wrestle tell me Russ please are we good here s it's Jessica somewhere we can find her easily like I says something where I can make a call and tell somebody to go to a location and they're gonna find her or something where we have to go and take a look Bres maybe maybe this would help can you tell me what the issue is you're struggling with it's hard to believe this is not why is why is it hard to believe Pruss is there anything you want from me is there anything you want me to explain there's something missing the you're struggling with that I can shed some light on for you I'm struggling with how upset my life is right now this investigation will end up costing no less than 10 million dollars easy and they will say no to nothing any requests this major case manager makes on this case they've already been told it's approved don't even bother ask him so what am i doing rest I put my best foot forward here for you but I really have I don't I don't know what else to do to make make you understand the impact of what's happening here did we talk Oh minimize the impact on my wife so do I so we do that well we start by telling the truth where is she I don't know you should close to her she lives I've got maps of that general area which town machine yer why don't we start there I'm not sure if you give me a map of covers highway don't get tweed so you see what I got here I might have something is she inside O's hype okay she close to a road yeah all right this is something where is she is she buried or if she's somewhere where if you walked through but you would fairly easily see her in seer okay okay I'll be right back okay Joe any water or anything sure how long has she been there for a little over a week was it fairly quick from the time she left it's frightening Friday night yeah so where was she between Thursday night Friday night and tweet with you yeah how long was she live for almost 24 hours not going yes you know the right thing here very the obvious question I'm gonna have for you is when they go there and they'll be there shortly they're gonna find her wait what do you want to talk about wide open how well do you want to work forwards or backwards why don't we start with Jessica how does that start for you I saw her in her house on our trip now what's genetics and I noticed she wasn't ten they're Thursday so getting a house look around then and they left no does she come home so I pack him it's really back patio door while she was sleeping so I woke her up didn't it and hid her here once Friday night well so I raped her in her house and then I took her to the car and took her to tweet spent the day in Tweed and I hit her as we were walking she thought we were leaving okay well um what did they hit on the back of the head - well I was surprised at her her skull gave way Jesus there may be unconscious strangler what did you hit her with flashlights okay in the house sir outside that snows so when that happened was she did she have clothes on or was she naked or summers dress okay so when we find her is she gonna have those clothes on today okay marie-france coma there was an open window in the basement of her her house when she was away I went in there couple nights before she came home around my packing there late at night when she was at home she's on the phone in her bedroom she actually discovered me in the basement she was trying to get her cat to come upstairs and the cat was in the basement that see me and was fixated on me in the corner she couldn't get the cat up so she came downstairs trying to the cat and I'm not sure why she came over to me I'll guess the cat was staring at me and she was wondering with cat was staring at what's wrong so when she spotted me by the same flashlight I subdued her tied up upstairs and strangled her whatever in the one our suffocated her some tape laughter there how did you subdue her only you say subdued her in the basement what do you do well I had the same flashlight and yes she she saw me right away so it's just hit her a couple of times around her head try and knock her out didn't but he was bleeding all of it eventually your struggle Secutor it's recognized you know my face so you go upstairs and you said she's suffocated well I said get her a tape on her I put tape on her mouth how could there so she could breathe he then goes on to confess the two assaults that occurred in his hometown of Orleans disclosing every single piece of concessive detail that authorities were hoping to attain this prompts the detective to then delve deeper into the psychological reasoning and rationale behind the suspects motives why do you think these things happen let me spend much time thinking about that about why yeah yeah but answers and I'm pretty sure the answers don't matter I mean let me ask you this did you like or dislike these women attaining a specific and detailed motive for a violent crime holds two purposes the primary reason is to refute any potential claims of mental instability or insanity from a defense team whether it be during a trial or a sentencing hearing the secondary purpose is for the further detraction of the defendants character which can often result in a more lengthy sentence being rendered I've met Abby fast at one time in that in her airplane okay no but I guess when yeah when you're going through these things are you good well I mean let's talk about Jessica because she was there with you for the whole day right what kind of feelings were you experiencing while you were with her that day oh she's a aspirin do you know what you killed well I think I killed her because I knew that her story would be recognized oh let me ask you this is it too late right to die well it's what was the difference in your mind between you know she was serving military right we've been difficult for investigators to ignore that connection no make sense so you go in she's sleeping and what do you do Wallace I snuck up to the side of her bed she woke up but she did as I said sure what did you say let's lie down on your tummy okay she did writer which higher up front tire hands behind her back and then then what happens I took her clothes off okay and then what happened richer our rape could mean a lot of different things what kind of sexual act took place virtual and oral Aurel who was performing the oral sex beyond her and her any-any condoms used or anything like that so they get corrected from vaginal intercourse or playing performing oral sex on you and you performing oral sex on her mmm remember what order those things included yeah it started with the oral sex then I raped her say something anything any kind of conversation happening when this is going on yeah a little bit I was pay instead I threatened her before she before I had her perform oral sex what did you say when I put a zip tie around her neck that I report if I didn't like what she returned okay so she did what you told her to do any issues there any reason to pull it so do you remember if you ejaculate it at that point or at any point at that point but later on okay so the oral sex finishes and then what happens next well I continued sorry Kurt and I had her put on some of her underwear took some pictures and then cutter dressed what that teacher okay at what point did you decide that she was gonna leave with you I'm not sure that wasn't necessarily always the plan do you remember the conversation about leaving was her any she's saying anything about that or what was she saying to you she was certainly cooperative a cooperative can mean a number of different things was she excitable leaving with you I don't be sarcastic but no no she just did too much of a fuss did she try and negotiate with you at all or what did she say well I told her that I would let her go over there okay so when you take her out of your house is she is she still bound her you know how was that done just hands behind her back I put her feet anything there no she was walking freezing so where does she sit in your truck when you get to HR fartsy passenger side okay and where do you go straight to tweet you straight to your house and tweet or show you just the town no stops anywhere so you get home but 4:35 you say and then what happens huh well she just blew the bathroom quick shower wash that me went into my bedroom to sleep a little bit she was tied up remember how long you slept for hours do you know if she slept I don't know so you get up from that and what happens next she had a seizure actually she felt that coming on and because she had some before last it quite a while better dressed to the family around it anyway she she recovered she got it was the stress how do you know she had them before she told me did she tell you why she gets them well she suggested the stress so she was quick to recover from that yep she talked to her I'm sure she later ten and then what happened well let me have a little lie-down right there cuz she was honestly exhausted meant to sleep then I got her dressed she thought she was leaving ready food and then as we were walking out I struck her on the back of that okay when did you decide to do that well I was pretty sure that I was gonna literally butt the idea of striking her on the head was developed in the afternoon her skull gave way hello that felt like there was a lot of blood I think that's what happened she conscious and then I strangled her how'd you strangler same rope and how did you know she was dead why did you do after that I found her up put her in the garage and then I'm gonna do the base how'd you go to the base hurt me why did you go to the face because I was okay get back to tweet and what happens Thanks I took Jessica's body to that spunk okay and how did you leave her I just lost your check behind a very large rock is that duct tape still on her and what else is on her a couple of towels wrapped around her head the top pants she was wearing jeans so you go in and you're in the basement and whereabouts in the basement by the furnace okay and what are you doing like what's your what's your sort of plan at that point I was waiting for a little bit okay and how long did that take well she didn't and what is she wearing at that point she wasn't wearing anything to start with so when she came down to the basement she had no clothes on some sort of a shawl or her shoulder okay she's huh did she say anything what'd she say she did call that you bastard okay and then what happened then I subdued her as I ran by hitting her with that red flashlight how did you tie her at that point like I know you used the rope but what did you tie her up like okay then what happened after that I took her upstairs did she go upstairs under her own power did you carry her no she passed over - on the stairs and I carried her why do you think she passed out heads to her head so you carry it up to where SuperBetter rather dead and then what happened as I described and on the bed I raped her over a period of time and again just to be specific with what sex acts to place your penis in her vagina yeah any condom use no did you ejaculate did you exactly at any point with her now what happens next well as I described I suffocated her using duct tape so while you're with Murray fronds what kind of conversations are taking place you anything in if she said do you stick out your mind why did you tape her mouth as soon as I got her up to the bedroom why did you decide to do that because she was quite aggressive and what white scarf that years would have screamed give the chance you remember how you left her residence back door okay well I guess I just have a couple of questions for you I mean I'm sure there's gonna be more questions but I guess what's on my mind right now or us is what made you decide to to tell me this tonight mostly to make my my wife's life easier how do you feel about what you know it's disappointing let me ask you this if this didn't come to the point inside right now whatever reason you did end up iron on a radar so to speak do you think it would have happening yet I was hoping not the details that were out already didn't prepare anyone for what was heard in court today as Colonel Russell Williams pleaded guilty to two murders two sexual assaults and more than 80 break-ins and many were described in detail along with each count came graphic photo evidence and a clear pattern to Williams escalating crimes you should be aware some of the facts are highly disturbing Peter the evidence presented in court today painted a chilling portrait of a predator who escalated from breakin enters to sexual assault to murder giving the public its first real glimpse of Russell Williams criminal mind it's the most graphic insight into Williams double life and it started soon after Williams shuffled into the courtroom shackled and pale in a voice that was at times barely audible Williams pled guilty to all 88 charges against him then slumped in his chair his eyes downcast he listened expressionless while the crown exhaustively recounted the case against him until now it's been reported Williams would steal women's undergarments and clothing when he broke into dozens of homes in tweed and Ottawa but what emerged in court was even more disturbing that Williams often targeted the homes and the belongings of young girls the first such incident occurred near his home in tweed starting a pattern that would be repeated over and over again today the court released 27 photos taken by Williams himself all of them in his own home of the thousands of pictures he took of lingerie stolen from drawers closets even laundry baskets William laid them all out meticulously and he tried them on there were several similar photos released but the CBC chose to crop them in court there were many more graphic pictures shown of Williams masturbating while wearing stolen garments police say Williams often spent hours in a given home especially in the bedrooms of young girls he had stalked it's very disturbing it's very troubling my eye on my hats off to the investigators that worked full-time on this for months and months and months to sift through this information and there was a lot of information to sift through Williams kept meticulous logs of every single crime he committed and buried those logs and photographs deep into his home computer's hard drive and the crown argued his obsession with photographs and videos continued when he took photos of the sexual assaults of Mattie Fae Eskimo and Jessica Lloyd and video of Como's murder that evidence has yet to be released Lloyd's family is bracing for a devastating week he pled guilty we know what the sentence is going to be why is the court going through all this why are we hearing the things we're hearing seeing the things we're seeing in such detail it is it would seem on the surface to be an open-and-shut case Peter but lawyers and the crown especially in police too wanted to lay out to the public the scope and the extent of their investigation the sheer number of crimes the horrific nature of the crimes and especially to satiate the public's interest in such a public figure he was a killer with the ultimate cover as a base commander in the Canadian Air Force colonel Russell Williams comforted families of the Fallen rubbed shoulders with the prime minister and even flew planes for the Queen but no one including his wife knew that he was also a sexual deviant burglar rapist and murderer and today what began as fetish and fantasy led to a life sentence of solitary misery Jim Smith was later praised for his impassive and methodical approach to the interrogation as he used one rational argument after another to slowly convince the suspect that his only option was to confess void of any antagonistic strategies whatsoever it was perfectly executed and Smith became somewhat of a cult figure in the realm of criminology and police culture he has been offered a multitude of highly lucrative deals from a variety of international publishing companies to write a book on his background and expertise all of which he is refused and continues to work as a senior criminal investigator to the present day you

Channel: JCS - Criminal Psychology

Views: 1,920,145

Rating: 4.8740644 out of 5

Keywords: true crime, criminology, police interrogation, forensic psychology, behavioural science

Id: jJZv3z7FOt0

Length: 67min 53sec (4073 seconds)

Published: Sat Aug 03 2019

Reddit Comments

[u/mg-milana]

This one was so interesting, my compliments to the person who was interviewing Russel.

[u/[deleted]]

I had actually seen this interrogation before, but the commentary and background here were so thought-provoking - it was a much more instructive view this time for me.

I couldn't help but notice how passive the approach is from the Canadian investigators we've seen as opposed to the more hard-line US interrogations. I am just doing some reading into it and it looks like the Royal Canadian Mounted Police have officially adopted an interrogation technique that differs from the Reid technique which is still standard in the U.S. I guess? http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/gazette/the-art-an-effective-interview

I'd be very interested to learn more about the difference between these two models. It seems like the Reid technique has a bad rep for eliciting false confessions.

[u/siddthekid208]

So insane. I love Jim Can't Swim

[u/SirOfFailingAlot]

what was that first interrogation in the intro?

[u/someonesnrime]

One of the most textbook perfect but effective interrogations I've seen.