The 3 SIGNS You're Dealing With A Narcissist & How To SET BOUNDARIES! | Dr. Ramani & Jay Shetty

so the way gaslighting works is it's a denial of a person's reality that's step one I never said that that never happened because I'm it very authoritatively saying to you something didn't happen that by itself is not gaslighting now the step two of gaslighting is the best-selling author and host the number one Health and Wellness podcast on purpose with Jay Shetty hey everyone welcome back to on purpose the number one Health podcast in the world thanks to each and every one of you who choose to come here to become happier healthier and more healed and I'm so grateful to our incredible audience uh it's been phenomenal to see how much you've been listening learning applying in your lives over the past few months I love seeing the reviews I love seeing all the tags on Instagram and on Twitter and the videos on Tick Tock it means the world to me that you're also sharing and passing this forward and today's guest is someone that I've known for a couple of years we've interacted in some really interesting environments and I have to say that whenever she speaks I'm like wow like I'm completely in awe her insights are phenomenal in real time I've been parts of like almost group things and whenever today's guest shares an Insight or shares some wisdom or shares a perspective it's so powerful that you know that there's years of experience there's Decades of learning that go behind it and so I feel really honored that I get to have this conversation she's been on the show once before but we were just talking beforehand about how I was doing the pandemics that was very pandemic focused but I think today is going to be really truly powerful for you I'm speaking about the one and only Dr Romney who's a licensed clinical psychologist in La uh a professor at California State University LA and the founder and CEO of Luna education training and Consulting Dr Rahman is an author of several books I recommend them all including should I stay or should I go surviving a relationship with a narcissist and don't you know who I am how to stay sane in an era of narcissism entitlement and in civil incivility now Dr Romney will be adding the role of host to her resume she launches a new podcast navigating narcissism with Dr Romney a show that focuses on narcissism at its impact on relationships now I know all of you are fascinated by relationships narcissism and your mind there's no one better than Dr Romney uh Dr Romney thank you so much for doing this that's a very big introduction so I I hope I can live up too oh it's true and I think we have we've been in so many rooms we have a lot of mutual yeah we do yeah uh people that we work with and I I really mean it like I I love the way you listen and I love the way you articulate what you're hearing and connecting and putting the dots together and you're so in demand so to actually have you here today is is really really special I I wanted to start off by understanding a bit about how you came to this work and like how narcissism because today you're known as the person who knows literally everything about narcissism always deeply studying it when did narcissism become an obsession or a focus or a point of study for you it's sort of around 2004 2003 thereabouts and it was it was in a research capacity looking at what was happening in healthcare settings when you had really demanding antagonistic uh entitled patience and the toll that was taken in healthcare settings which seems so obvious but that led me to do a deeper dive and I realized how little this had been researched in sort of Health Care situations I was specifically working in the area of HIV and so that started a research program at that same time I also had a clinical practice and in my clinical practice you know more and more people were kind of coming in with the same relationship story because I was studying narcissism in my research I'm thinking how interesting let me just shed this light on the patterns they're seeing that are quite antagonistic and and that just knowing that and they said well can this change in the answer to that's pretty much no once they knew it could really be shifted that much it totally changed their point of view and lifted a lot of self-blame so those were the two things kind of happening and that honestly should I say or should I go my first book on narcissism came from after the sessions these clients were so overwhelmed they'd often say could you just put this in an email right and I really felt for them because I could see it was a real real deer in the headlights experience so I'd knock out you know something in an email it also helped me organize my thoughts and then I thought okay I keep writing the same email so let's just make that a book so when the world started sort of going upside down I thought this is interesting I am going to approach this topic because I thought well this is actually what's happening right now and everyone was using the word a lot of people weren't using it correctly and that's where that came from then from there was where it got interesting was I'm a writer that's what I do but two young people approached me former students that had said they were student they were finishing school at the time they said you knew you should really be on YouTube and I said that's ridiculous you know at my age it didn't make sense it wasn't how I consumed media and they said let's let's take a few months let's see what kind how it how this space works and over time years of sort of honing it and tuning it and all of that that was actually where all of a sudden this reach happened on this YouTube channel so it was an evolution but what I found was where the real sort of pivot was for me the world of mental health was not recognizing what was happening to people in these relationships and that's when I got angry and to me anger is a great motivator I thought these people have been going to therapists and being invalidated and maybe it's how you communicate and maybe you weren't trying hard enough and I thought oh my goodness and that's really for me when it sort of felt like a revolution I thought something's got to give and if this means that people are gonna say you know what's wrong with you and you have a Target on your back I mean I've been called every name in the book and people said this is an unempathic therapist how could she and I thought oh my goodness like I thought people are trying to shut this discourse down through shame and I thought nah let's just keep going I'm old enough to not really care what people think about me anymore and so I um that's that's really where it came from and now that's just sort of the focus the narcissism piece to me is interesting from a scientific Framing and all of that but the real passion for me is working with people who have been through these relationships and have never really felt recognized seen or heard to help them with their healing and help them find themselves so they feel that they can stand on their own in the world and actually have their voice again that's the mission yeah so important and so needed and I'm so glad that you're doing it I feel like this is more common as An Occurrence today than than ever before and do you think that's because narcissism was somewhat hidden for many years in the sense that it just happened behind closed doors or like why is it only now that we're talking about it so much that's such a good question Jay you know and it's almost like without giving you too pedantic a history lesson is that people have been the word narcissism in this application like about other people didn't really even start coming into the literature until maybe the very late 1800s early 1900s then some psychoanalytic theorists talked about it but it was a really quiet Backwater in the world of mental health and mental health and psychology are new Fields it wasn't even until 1980 where we saw it come with the idea of narcissistic personality disorder which is its own issue this is very recent to me what is that you know 40 not even 50 years ago and so the this people have been narcissistic since there have been people and and actually an interesting framing on it can actually come from there's fascinating work and if if you've never read it I can't recommend this book enough the book behave by Robert zapolski maybe one of the most extraordinary books I think has been written in the last 10 years and to me sapolski is is a giant in in all Fields related to to psychology and he makes this incredible he he lays he's talking about aggression sort of why are why do people behave aggressively why do people behave badly and we do know the science has shown it narcissism is associated with aggression and violence like this isn't just like oh these people are a handful there's actually a risk here and we're not addressing this risk but when you look at what he says you see look when you look at the evolution of human history he said what we do see is a greater level of antagonism in people who came more from cultures where they were hurting hurting animals goats whatever cows why because you could steal those things but people who are pastoralists people who farmed you really can't go get up and steal a field I guess you could steal some of the ears of corn but you're not going to make off with the whole field farming is more collaborative hurting is more individual so if you go back and that is we're talking hundreds if not thousands of years of human history how people sort of interacted through the world economically you look at history lessons I remember my daughter was taking world history we had a very long drive to school so I said why don't you teach me what you learned on the way to school she'd study I'd learned something but what I thought over and over again over 500 years of world history a lot of drives over many years is that what we were seeing is that these people in the history books were all very antagonistic they were all very narcissistic they didn't have empathy they were arrogant they were aggressive they were controlling they lacked empathy they had to be the hero like it was always the same story so I actually think narcissism narcissistic relationships all of this has been around since time immemorial it was only because psychology is a field in its relative infancy that we're only talking about it in this way now and it is only in the last 15 years that we have actually started paying attention to the harm this personality style does to the other person in a relationship it's incredible isn't it when you look at it from that perspective about how long people have suffered from or suffered with something because our learning was still catching up with its experience and you think about anyone who hasn't lived in the last 15 to 25 years they potentially were called names Outcast misunderstood unheard unseen as you're saying apps I mean Jay I have worked with clients who are older okay so they've been in 30 40 50 year marriages that have been difficult from the very very beginning and they said you know what it wasn't until I watch your videos It wasn't until I read your books it wasn't until the last five to ten years that this finally had a name and until then I assumed it was my fault I wasn't trying hard enough I was complaining I was being unrealistic about what a marriage should look like that's what they were they were basically in essence turning it back on themselves blaming themselves and culture wasn't helping you know people saying well I guess you're not marriage is tough you have to make compromises that's just how they are they don't mean it their bark is worse than their bite and so people would internalize that and if you really want to look at it this way even historically we didn't really start talking about domestic violence until the late 60s into the 1970s that's when Lenora Walker made the whole sort of you know the the circle of abuse and in a relationship and all of that this is all new and that was in the 70s to this day we still do not Accord emotional abuse the same level as as we do physical abuse and yet I've got to tell you everyone who's physically abused is emotionally abused but emotional emotionally abused people are showing up with the same level of symptomatology often the same level of post-traumatic kinds of um decrements and functioning you name it so we're see it is this is all slowly evolving interestingly the field of mental health is still slow to catch up that's something that's got to change yeah absolutely no I'm so glad we're having this conversation and thank you for letting us go on a history lesson because I think it's really important quite frankly to understand to really get context of where we are seeing as you said these words are thrown around now and they're also everywhere and you've probably done this a million times but for our audience could you please define narcissism and then narcissistic personality disorder because I do feel now as you said a lot of people are using this on a daily basis and while it's healthy that our language is evolving I do often find that people also get wrongly labeled or early labeled or whatever it may be I totally agree this is a big problem struggle call it what you will is that so narcissism is a personality style okay so not if a personality style could be anything including narcissism agreeableness introversion neuroticism those are all personality Styles right so narcissism's on the Shelf with them now we would view narcissism which sits under a bigger umbrella called antagonism as a more maladaptive style because their behavior Can often put them at odds with other people things like the entitlement the arrogance the manipulativeness the grandiosity these are sort of really uncomfortable patterns that's narcissism okay now when we jump the rails to narcissistic personality disorder it's a whole different game the reason people really get kind of a b in their Bonnet about this needs to be diagnosed by a licensed mental health practitioner is because in order for a person to be diagnosed with a mental illness not only do they have to have a laundry list of whatever is associated with that whether it's depression anxieties schizophrenia bipolar disorder substance use disorders doesn't matter personality disorders are the same so you have to have that list and this is the ringer you have to be able to show that that person is either experiencing something we call subjective distress meaning that they're uncomfortable or social and occupational impairment meaning that their life is kind of getting wrecked by this and they're aware of it it's a lot of awareness and discomfort that many people who are narcissistic don't have in fact they're kind of sitting on top of the world they got a partner they got a side piece they've got a they've got money they've got success they've got power they're thinking I ain't got no problems now they're burning down everyone around them but you cannot diagnose someone because someone else is unhappy with their behavior that's not what our diagnostic systems were designed to do so when we get into these antagonistic disorders like narcissistic personality disorder it's pretty rare that people with these personalities get into treatment and when they do it's for some other reason their marriage is blowing up they're sub they're using substances in some cases they're depressed something's gone wrong at work they've been involved in something sort of publicly that makes them look bad so they go to therapy to say face so the thing that gets them into therapy is not like oh I've noticed I don't have much empathy and I'm really entitled and arrogant I'm looking for help with that said no one ever okay so what they're coming in with something else often very arrogantly like okay I see your fancy certificates on the wall doc so how long is it going to take you to fix me I'm paying a lot for your time very dismissive very arrogant now every so often you'll see a narcissistic not every so often not uncommonly in people who have narcissistic personality disorder they may also have something else going on like depression or anxiety or like I said a substance use disorder the therapist is going to focus as we do on the more acute issue the depression the anxiety substance use disorder and they'll try to manage that right through a combination of therapy maybe medication whatever they use time goes on the mood's lifting a little or the anxiety is managed or they're sober but they're still really awful and entitled and arrogant and all this other stuff and because a lot of therapists don't bring personality stuff into the room they don't think about it they're thinking that maybe I'm not doing this right this person still is not like they're still not behaving nicely but they're not using anymore and they seem to be their sleep seems to be better and so you see what I'm saying the personality is like the Baseline it's the thrum under the other stuff that's happening on top that's the disorder a person you have a personality I have a personality for example I'm introverted okay Believe It or Not incredibly introverted person that is my personality it is not going to change next week I am not going to be the life of the party okay On Any Given Saturday night I tell you the probabilities I am home reading a book watching TV or doing something ridiculous at home but I am at home okay I can't change that if you said to me well come on Doctor we're gonna make you extroverted I'm like no you're not and and if you said but you have to become extroverted I might be able to stretch myself but I'll collapse or I'll be exhausted or you know what I'm saying so that's personality it is who we are it's a psychological fingerprint of sorts but it's always right under the surface so you're not going to make the introvert an extrovert you're not going to make the neurotic person more sort of um relaxed and impulsive you're not going to take a conscientious person and turn them into someone who is sort of acts out impulsive and doesn't plan these personalities sort of set who we are and so this is the in the case of people who have narcissistic personalities they have very disagreeable personalities they have antagonistic personalities that's the difference and so before people say it I'm like I'll say does this person have a lack of empathy are they entitled do they seek validation sometimes people say well I think he's narcissistic because he cheated on me I'm like well he cheated on you that's all I got here yeah I don't know if this dude's narcissistic you'd have to tell me a little bit more about this person's behavior and I think people are using this as a buzzword to to label or or talk about someone who did something that aggravated them and you got to remember narcissism is not a one-off okay so if one day someone did something like having a bad week but in general they're a very even tempered warm compassionate kind mindful a self-aware person that's who they are most of the time but then 20 things are going wrong parent is sick child is sick job is going badly and they're a little bit more short fused but they're even saying I am not at my best I am so sorry cut me a wide birth you know I'm so so and they're very aware that they're not behaving well they may they're not they're not behaving well in that case isn't narcissism it may just be a bad week that's such a great uh explanation and I hope everyone who's listening and watching I hope that's giving you real context and a wider perspective on on how this all fits together thank you so much for that genuine monster class as I guess what I want to start is do we do we have any understanding well how much is our current understanding on how people end up with a narcissistic personality because I think that's healthy for people to have context over too like you said like whatever personality we are we can't change that core root base of it so it's worth knowing how we ended up there because again whether we're parents whether we're thinking of being parents whether we're navigating the world been concerned about ourselves or someone in our life it helps us understand what are some of those facets or elements that brought people into being narcissist as a personality right so this is where it gets interesting right so personality is a funny little thing where it's it's there's a little bit of a genetic piece to it and that genetic piece is something we call temperament okay so we all have temperaments and we see it even in babies some babies you hold them in their arms your arms they soothe like this they're easy they're Smiley they're often they're just content you know and they and they're often kind and even as soon as that point where they're sort of aware of who other people are and toddlerhood they come into preschool age they're very aware they'll take their cookie they'll split it in half there's some kids like that right then there are those kids who no matter what you do they arch their back and they cannot be soothes then they're and they always need attention and they always want attention and they're mean to their siblings and they take not only the one cookie but they take all the cookies right that stuff that biological stuff is foundational in many ways to our personalities I'd say to everyone if you have access to anyone who knew you early in life see how well like they describe your infancy or your toddlerhood and how well it tracks to who you are now every so often is a shrink I get to talk to like a parental figure in that person's life never been wrong yet every time that baby temperament toddler temperament tracks into I'm sure you were a sweet baby I am so sure I called your mom she'd say Jay is the sweetest little baby no oh my God no they'll say oh this one no definitely not and I was a super super super sweet baby you know and I think I'm a pretty sweet adult actually you know but a little intense but sweet you know I can relate to that you know but I bet you were and so that temperament forms like a seed all right that's a seed right there that temperament is how the world reacts to us that kid who's on won't be soothed and needs attention and needs to cartwheel through the living room the world doesn't like the kid that kid that much right they go through babysitters don't like them parents just a little bit of eye rolling kids are perceptive and it might even affect attachment because the parent is so exhausted they're dealing with that tough child it could even impair attachment experiences and then they go into school teachers don't like them as much even peers might be frustrated by them they're having more invalidating experiences right that's a little bit of some of the seed of what we see can be narcissism right because narcissism also has an attachment piece to it in general people of narcissistic personalities often have more anxious or avoidant uh attachment Styles a little bit more anxious than anything else and why that might be it might be that there was chaos in the family there may have been you know a bad relationship between the parents the parents may have been distracted with their own lives they couldn't be bothered with having kids um there may have been literal violence mental mental illness whatever substance use something was happening in that early environment that may have impacted the attachment experience that's also associated with narcissism we know that in some cases trauma early in life is associated with narcissism but that gets tricky because in the vast majority of cases it's not because the person might say well I had trauma in childhood I'm not narcissistic yeah that's the bet I would take but we do see that sometimes especially if that impacts attachment that that's going to make a difference those are sort of what I consider more of the sort of the difficult early circumstances the adverse childhood experience origins of narcissism however there's another side to it which is the overindulged kind of Pathway to narcissism it's like think of narcissism as Rome and multiple roads coming into Rome right and in the in the sort of overindulged Pathways this is where you see sort of your standard spoiled kid the parents will give the kid anything the things and experiences and money but here's the ringer and it was a very interesting study that came out a couple of years ago where it's not just the spoiling but it's telling the child you're more special than any of these other kids not just that you're special that's a lovely message but you're more special you don't that Line's not for you you know the other kids wait in that line I'll figure you're too special to wait in that line that sort of that you're better than the others you're more special than the others which a narcissistic parent may do to their child and that's how we'll sometimes see narcissistic parents May beget narcissistic kids but not as a rule so but all these Pathways I'm describing don't always end up in narcissism why some end up that way I do think the temperament piece probably pays a bigger role than we think and I've worked with many many narcissistic clients over my years of practice and I've seen all of these etiology origin Pathways play out but depending on the origin that will affect how the narcissism looks in adulthood the more kind of traumatizing neglect origin will result in narcissistic people who are a bit more um Sullen resentful aggrieved sad socially anxious whereas the spoiled child narcissism will end up a little bit more grandiose wow so that that if hope that makes it a little bit clearer yeah yeah it's a lot of color right I mean I think one of the biggest challenges we see is that when I speak to people whether I'm working with them or I meet them or when they're working with a therapist and then I'm connecting with them in another part of their life most people don't realize they're with someone narcissistic until after they leave like when you write a book should I stay or should I go I've found a lot of people figuring out towards the end it's not something you spot very quickly at least when people I know and I would love to hear your experience you obviously you've done this for so long you you've had so many conversations around this I found that it's not something that people spot very early or sometimes their early signs of it even seem positive or it seems that it can be attractive like you said a lot of people who are narcissistic can be ambitious they can be successful they could have achieved a lot of things through that pain that trauma so walk us through now if we're in that should I stay or should I go mode that's the name of Dr Romney's book as well so as we're talking about it feel free to order that book when you're in that position and you start to sense there's some narcissism in the person you're with a what are you gonna sense what are the things that people usually notice why don't we notice it early on like what about narcissism is somewhat is it can it be attractive it's very attractive and here's the ringer in these relationships I people want the narcissistic people to be the cartoon villain right they want it to be in your face bad mean lying deceitful betraying all the time right well that would be easy No One's Gonna put up with that the challenge with these relationships whether it's a parent whether it's a partner colleague friend sibling you name it is that there's often enough good days in there to keep you hooked all these qualities charm Charisma confidence ambition being fun loving being extroverted um wanting to have all kinds of interesting experiences narcissistic people are very sensation seeking they're novelty seeking it can be really fun that's why we talk about the love bombing that happens at the beginning of these relationships and what happens is when I've worked with people especially those who've been in longer term relationships they'll say Doc it isn't always bad it wasn't always bad but the bad is really bad like the bad leaves me wondering if I'm any good and I feel like a bad person and I feel like I'm the one with the problem and on and on and on right but then there are those good days and the person will often say see I was the one who is wrong I'm being I'm being too demanding I've got this silly notion of what a relationship's supposed to be and I can set a clock on the fact that it's going to go back into the downward so I think that that's one thing I want everyone listening to this to know is that people say well maybe this person in my life isn't that antagonistic maybe they're not that narcissistic because we have these good days plan on the good days it's like being in a relationship or it's like be living someplace where the weather is always extreme it's either like 85 degrees and sunny or like the most horrific hurricane blizzard and that weather alternates like on an every few days basis sometimes and so as a result of that it confuses people to no end it isn't always bad there were good moments there are good memories and that's what confuses people so this idea of recognizing someone in my own podcast navigating narcissism we've done now 30 episodes right it's amazing 30 episodes 30 conversations about narcissism and in every in many of these cases what I've seen especially in the intimate relationships somewhere around one two three years things were becoming clear although you see the red flags as soon as like the first month the piece is turning into something like pixels right a couple of pixels teach you nothing lots of pixels make a picture and it takes a couple of years for a lot of folks to get enough pixels to say okay there's no not seeing this but by then they may be so deep into it that cognitive dissonance kicks in and you want it to work so you tell yourself whatever story you need to tell yourself so the relationship can sustain well we have enough good good times maybe it's my fault I'm being too demanding you'll see this especially if a person is trying to find a relationship at a pressured time of life they want to have kids they feel pressure to get married whatever it may be but even in a family a person will say I can't walk away from my parents even though every interaction the person has with them is wretched and and my job is to help people find that middle ground of having realistic expectations but I do think that when people red flags are always a story that can be told retrospectively like okay there was a red flag on the first date there's a red flag in the first month everyone will say like okay all that being late or you know all that um telling me that they told me not to apply to that school because they cared about me and didn't want me to feel like I was you know they didn't want to watch me go through the school telling me that I couldn't get in but in fact what they were doing is holding them back on their dreams like the pixels turn into a picture and I think that that it does take time and a lot of people will feel embarrassing how did it take me two years to see this to which I say two years is fast good for you and when the love bombing ends and love bombing lasts anywhere from six weeks to a year I think that's about the range and so when the love bombing ends and the devaluing starts people are almost this on this weird addictive treadmill of like how do I get back to that yeah and what and what do I need to change in myself never stopping to think oh okay this person brought their a game for about three months they've shifted I have not changed so if you can see it clearly these you can see the patterns clearly things like you know they'll get incredibly sensitive to criticism that's a very common pattern in narcissistic folks and so everything will be going well and a person's feeling more comfortable they might give them feedback I don't know what they're wearing or the restaurant they chose or their job and a rage that feels like a tsunami will enter the relationship and the person will be like what the heck just happened those ego injuries can really result in these volcanic kinds of you know sorts of shows of emotion that's when people start getting confused and saying maybe I was harsh maybe I shouldn't have said that and so that what we see invariably is the survivors in these relationships take it upon themselves to try to change everything about themselves believing they can change the other person and if there's only one takeaway here it's that narcissism like all maladaptive personality Styles is really resistant to change the more maladaptive the personality the more rigid it is the more healthy and flexible the personality the more given to take so agreeable people are incredibly flexible so even if they don't want to do something they might think like I love her you know she wants to go and I'm you know what they've always been there for me so I'm going to go to the horror film festival might cover my eyes but then think that that's the give and take of a relationship and won't be angry about it that's the flexibility narcissism is the opposite it's like it's solid as a brick yeah wow and and I think that when people end up in those scenarios or those experiences we have this you you raised this point that we almost try and counteract bad memories with good memories like we that's how we like to make sense of someone is well if they do a bad thing how many good things do they do or if they do a good thing how many bad things do they do right if we don't like someone overall we'll come up with a list of mistakes they made if we like someone will come up with a list of compliments they made what's a healthier way of making sense of someone because I don't find good and bad to be that healthy as you said it could mislead you I always say to people you've got to be able to be comfortable with this concept of multiple truths okay multiple things can be true at the same time you could have had a wonderful courtship you may have great sex you this person may regularly Gaslight you this person lies to you you really love how they cook spaghetti they're wonderful with your infant they often raise their voice at you do you see what I'm saying all of these things are happening at the same time the hardest thing I believe a human being can do is to sit with those multiple truths and not run away it is the ultimate test of mindfulness because we want we cognitive dissonance our brains are wired they're not wired for inconsistency they're wired for consistency and when things are inconsistent we feel very tense we feel very uncomfortable and the human species gears towards homeostasis I need to not feel tense the best way to not feel tense is figure out okay I want to stay in this relationship so he's a good father what more could you want right now you can argue the flip side of that too when a person's for some reason feels ready to leave a relationship they may say they may cherry pick all the a few bad things and forget how much you know that this person's actually really well regulated and kind and compassionate and all of that I think part of the struggle becomes what constitutes a healthy relationship in any culture without that agreed upon definition I think that's half the battle so when people say to me what's a healthy relationship I'm like oh easy it's kind it's compassionate it's flexible it is respect full it is cooperative it's collaborative there's there's you know equitability and it may not it may be that there's very clear roles but there's a perceived sense of equitability in the relationship their self-awareness and there's an investment in the growth of your partner that's a healthy relationship and people they'll look at their narcissistic relationships that say I don't have any of those yeah okay but unfortunately culture will often dictate what makes things healthy and then they'll be like well they have a good job they make a lot of money we are of the same religion I like how they look yeah that stuff is I understand why someone would value it it's not the stuff of a healthy relationship yeah those are the things we start convincing ourselves through and and coaching ourselves through walking ourselves through it gets harder and harder and harder because we get so addicted especially going back to where you sing about love bombing like being love bombed is really addictive and it's really intoxicating because it's like wow this person's really into me and if I could count the amount of friends I have this year that have been love bomb like it's insane like how common it is and it's at the shorter end too it's at that six weeks Mark or you know three months Mark where people are showing their their full self I guess is the right way of saying it how do you stop yourself from being love bombed like how do you avoid being love bombed or how do you navigate being love bombed because I think that's the conversation like we're not going to be able to stop being love bombed but you are going to be able to slow things down you argue to be able to rethink you are going to be able to but we just love being loved so much and you know it's kind of like the confidence boost we never had and it's it's the influx of positive compliments we never had so how do we slow what do we do it's a tough one Jay you know I mean listen if you put like a bunch of I don't know cupcakes or sweets starting to eat it right knowing that oh okay Romney you don't need to you don't need the sugar you know we're going to turn we then I'd say you don't need the sugar you don't that's not good for you then that's easy I think easier when it comes to food I think that what happens with love bombing might actually be more addictive than drugs because it's often addressing a deficit many people believe they've experienced in their lives that they weren't seen they weren't recognized they weren't valued a lot of people didn't get that in in the early part of their lives so that someone's coming along or in their dating life they didn't get it with other people so when someone comes along and is offering it it almost feels like an offset to those other relationships where a person didn't feel valued or seen or any of that I think part a number one is that you need to know what it is so when it's happening you're more aware of it's like it again using a hurricane analogy it's like preparing for it so if a person says oh hurricane is just rain and wind I'm like um maybe not like let's get those you know let's board up your windows let's sand bag your house evacuate like it's not just a rainstorm so knowing what it is means you're going to prepare yourself in a different way that's one thing the second thing is love bombing becomes a place for you to test the waters okay so I tell people pull back on that throttle let's come down in altitude let's fly This Plane a little slower now in most narcissistic relationships if a person tries I'm not saying end it but tries to pull back like can we go a little slower or you know what we don't need to go to that place let's just go to this simple restaurant or I don't know about traveling yet like I'd like to get you know to know you better you put those lines down and set those boundaries in the majority of cases the narcissistic person is going to jump they're going to do things like doubt your commitment I guess you're not that into me or oh yeah okay I get it you're not you're not vibing because what you've done is you've taken away their game right now if they were really really a good solid person who just happens to be super into dating you then they'd say oh you know what I was I'm so interested in you let me slow this let me slow my roll I think I let my enthusiasm and they'll be I let my enthusiasm get the best of me they'll be self-aware of what they're they're doing and might say you know I think that I just you're really wonderful and but thank you and they'll receive the feedback and say and say you know what let's go to that Hole in the Wall restaurant that sounds great and it won't be an ego injury and they won't view it again because you're taking away their game that's that's the example of gaslighting which by the way today was designated as the word of the year what yes Merriam-Webster Dictionary called gaslighting the word of the year which to me let me tell you I literally started crying I thought after 15 years of talking about this stuff quietly I cannot believe that this is finally entering into the mainstream but people still use the word wrong but the fact of the matter is when when you simply say something like I'm really enjoying getting to know you but can we just step it back a bit and a person says well I guess you're not that interested in me then you're being gaslighted because that's actually not your experience you actually are quite committed and want to slow it down to see what it's like but that's a great way to test the waters that would like that would be me saying can you take all those cupcakes away I'm not interested yeah and I'd still be like really want one yeah you know so it's that exactly yeah let's now that you've said that I didn't realize that's that is incredible that it's the word of the uh in the sense that at least we're understanding it it's sad that it's the word of the year because it means more people are experiencing it it's like the you know but but can you again properly clarify us what gaslighting is again so that we don't misuse it and absolutely and when I saw that I'm like I'm going to bring this up with Drake yeah when it came up as the word of the Year Gaslight a lot of people are confused by gas exciting right now the origin of the word is actually is only in the last less than 100 years it was a name of a play that became a film and you know it was literally about the psychological manipulation of a Woman by her husband and how she psychologically sort of falls apart because that's happening fast forward the only people who talked about gaslighting were therapists it was his therapists talk and we talk about it oh my God her husband's gaslighting him you know kind of thing and my shrink would say it to me right and I was like oh you're being gaslighted so it was shrink talk nobody else talked about it and then those of us working in this space it was you know like oh that's the primary tool of the narcissistic person because it's a tool of domination so the way gaslighting works is it's a it's a denial of a person's reality that's step one I never said that that never happened you're what are you saying like I don't even see what you're talking about right so you're like I didn't or this isn't happening so you now you're already a little off balance because I'm it very authoritatively saying to you something didn't happen but that's not that's that by itself is not gaslighting oh okay no yeah you gotta go now the step two of gaslighting is then I tell you there's something wrong with you right you're so sensitive like why do you see this everywhere or like oh God you know paranoia much I you know what I'm gonna get you the name of a shrink you need to talk to someone because you keep imagining things that aren't happening okay so imagine a person in a relationship where there's infidelity and they're getting suspicious their Partners ours whatever it is messages and they say to their partner what is this thing at work you keep staying and you know you're traveling like is there anything going on that I should know about no there's nothing going on okay step one we have not gaslighted yet though yeah gaslighting is but you know what I'm sick of I'm sick of living with an unhinged paranoid lunatic that's what I'm tired of right there's The Gaslight now there's a step three is that it's not a one-off one time yes that's a gaslighting episode but the true gaslighting abuse happens over time over and over and over and it won't just be about one issue I never said that what is wrong with you oh I'm getting so tired of your paranoia you're so sensitive and what happens then is that other person being told repeatedly by someone they do trust because gaslighting is predicated on trust it's harder for a stranger to Gaslight you partner family member health care provider um teacher people who have some power over someone politicians in Gaslight entire societies Gaslight right what everyone is coming in on one party line and denying reality and then telling the people who don't believe that that there's something wrong with them and do it over and over and over again you break the other person's Spirit you leave them completely doubting themselves completely blaming themselves and so what happens is when a person's chronically gaslighted you'll see things like no no you know what this is my fault they start they start apologizing before they get into I'm sorry I'm sorry and I'll be like what are you sorry for it's just they got so used to saying it so they're they're they really get Shattered by this where they literally lose a sense of up and down night and day they're just it's a con it's such a cruel thing to do to a person it is qualifies as emotional abuse so this idea of gaslighting great that it's in the public Consciousness but it's not just lying everyone says Dr Romney what's the difference between lying and gaslighting lying is a denial of evidence right so today we had our time to get together and make it up you say okay you're gonna be here at two o'clock and I'd say that's not true you told me to get here at one o'clock it was one o'clock one o'clock one o'clock I know it was one o'clock and I insist on that then you'll be able to show me the email and say Romney look it says two o'clock and then and then I and then I went with that right then we were just close the LIE got lies get shut down by evidence gaslighting is a lie but wrapped up in this invalidating bow and that I mean when I hear that breaks my heart because I know so many people have been on the end of that and you see how someone may even have started off with an anxious or avoidant attachment style and now that anxiety is through the roof or that self criticism is you know their self-doubt is is even greater now that person can't trust again now the person's struggling with their value and their worth and I know this is a bigger question and I do want to get into it but that individual what could they have done differently to avoid going inward because I what I've found is that when someone is potentially probably one of the other personality types it's natural for them to think that there's something that they need to change that's the natural default of the other personality types it's like when something's not working out maybe I should change because then it could be better right or take responsibility or take responsibility exactly and so and I and I've seen that myself even when even when someone would say the meanest thing about me even if I know it's not true to my core there's a part of me that will still reflect on it because I'm like what if maybe it's something I'm missing about myself but how do you avoid letting it affect you or are you saying there is no way and it is going to affect you I think that it's a mix of things and it's interesting when you when people get Savvy about gaslighting and they know they're being gaslighted in real time now the one thing you can never ever ever do is tell a gaslighter that you know that they're gaslighting you because then they're going to double down yeah okay so when it's happening in real time is and this is what's so hard because it becomes sort of a cart before the horse thing most people haven't done the therapeutic work of who am I what am I about what is my identity how do I stand as a person what do I believe in what do I care about right very few people do that work because then when you do that again I get this I get this a lot in online spaces because people a lot of people out there who are very pro-narcissism apparently and so when I come out but is there a big organized Community Dr Romney is a terrible therapist and she's very unempathic that was one of last week's comments okay wow it has less impact Jay because I don't know this there's a stranger on the internet but I have to catch myself because I know there's parts of me that have that neurotic structure where I believe that's plausible just because that's just sort of how it is that's what I mean right yeah the work then becomes I have to literally talking myself out loud like Romney you are empathic you're solid you are a very good therapist you've seen really meaningful change your clients literally I'm saying this out loud however and this is the interesting rub this hurts you even though this is from a stranger to give yourself a second and that might be talk to someone I care about who cares about me to see if they can uplift me it might be do something pleasurable it might be doing a brief workout it might mean whatever it means you know that there's a moment when I'm saying I need to show some compassion to myself right now because this person has hit me someplace that hurts becomes a different Call to Arms at that point yeah does that make sense but the initial work is who am I and what am I about yeah you know and I think that this is why journaling becomes so important because having these places you've written things down where you can look back and say I really I really have comment things from the heart and sure I've made mistakes like everyone does but listen this is a this is a highfalutin this is me having been in therapist therapy for 50 000 years you know so that's also there's a place where that work's been done and having gone through a life and had to learn from all of that that was not something I was doing when I was 25 years old so a therapist though could if a good therapist would be a place where somebody could say you're being gaslighted and I can't tell you how many times I've sat with a client and said it sounds like they're gaslighting you're the client like what and then we'll walk through what is their reality who are there and then when that session is done they'll often say I feel like a big weight has been lifted off of me because I was literally doubting the very essence of who I am and this is where therapy becomes so important because it's sort of bringing a person back to doing that work of who they really are what they really stand for what they're about so in real time it's really about listening to it I have to be honest with you when I within the presence of someone who is gaslighting me and they're actually somebody who I do value I tend to disengage a bit you know I'll just sort of let you know I'll say you know I'll often give the okay we're just seeing it in different ways and um I'll sort of soften and I won't get into it with them anymore I will I I don't in fact one of my techniques I give the clients I work with is don't go deep don't defend don't engage don't explain don't personalize so I'll disengage a bit and realize okay this is no longer a safe space yeah and and that sort of feels self-protective and I think that that's almost like retraining an inner critic to say can I also have an inner bodyguard so that I could just have someone's like hey hun let's just pull you back a little bit yeah yeah I it's so interesting I had an episode with a coaching client because obviously that that's my either episode with the coaching client earlier this year and I have a similar approach where I'm like I know who I am I know what I care about I know with what intention I work towards and ultimately if that's an opinion someone has of me they're entitled to that but but I'm not going to go deep with it because I know that's just not my truth and that's not where I am but like you're saying that takes a lot of self-work beforehand and like you said there's also still an openness to feedback there's still an openness to being better it's not like you think you're complete and you're perfect and your intentions perfect either so I I really like that you brought it back to that because I I'm glad that we got back to that that at the end of the day it's about who you are your intention the essence of who you're trying to be and that's ultimately all you have to go back to before and after but it's hard but it's hard yeah it's really really and for people who've been through lifelong narcissistic abuse long-term narcissistic abuse in a relationship they'll be like I have no idea who I am so so I do say that honestly and the film The Original film Gaslight portrays this as part of the storyline ultimately ultimately she got ungaslighted if you will because of just one person it only takes one person and I always tell everyone you can be the person who turns The Gaslight off for someone else you may witness some something and say that's you know you might be at a meeting and someone might say that's not what they said and so now you're ungaslighting them in real time it might be you do it after the meeting if that's safer thumb it'll tell you what's happening in their relationship and you don't doubt them say oh come on it couldn't have been that bad you don't say that you're like I am so sorry this is happening to you this sounds absolutely terrible are you okay because what you've done is you've given permission to this person who's just told you they're going through something terrible minimizing it oh in many ways is a gaslighted approach right oh it's not that bad because of our discomfort with some someone else's discomfort we can hold this space for other people and sort of turn that Gaslight off for others and you'd be amazed at how quickly that can turn the ship around yeah well what what are some of the realistic expectations for someone who says I think I can change them I think I can be the person that helps this narcissistic person evolve grow change whatever word they use like what have been realistic storylines as to how those episodes and scenarios go they don't I am in in my book don't you know who I am there is a letter in that book and I had been speaking in some public forum this woman heard me and in somebody was asking me a question in this form and she was in a relatively new new marriage they've been together a couple years married all the narcissistic top notes were there in her partner and she was asking the question I don't know can I stick this out for another 10 years I'm just trying to figure this out and then this woman just did it herself she had she's one of the people who decided to stay the next 10 years and she beautifully lays out honey this is what's going to happen if you stay for another 10 years just basically 10 more years of gaslighting 10 more years of broken heart I've worked with clients Jay who weren't ready to go and so they say they'd sometimes even drop out of therapy and a few times I've had those clients call me back three five seven eight years later sometimes tearful and say nothing changed and there's no sense of Triumph in me for that I recognize that they needed to see it the way they needed to see it I don't get to dictate their Rock Bottom I don't get to dictate when someone sees something I do all the psycho-education stuff I do online education to see if I might be able to push the fast forward button on that but it's still where you get there when you get there but like there has been I can say it probably counts 10 instances of people 10 of the thousands I've heard that where people have said you know this person actually when I said I'm done I'm over it I'm in fact recently this came up in one of the seminars in my healing program and this person said I'm done I'm out um and she moved into her own place and her husband ended up going to 12 step he ended up going to therapy he had become more self-aware and she had found herself thriving living by herself but she did love him and he said I want you to move back in and she said you know what I'm still growing and finding myself so the answer to that is no we can continue having tentative conversations and he didn't rage at her that was one of the more hopeful stories I've heard in the last few years uh and that's like that's one in five years and so uh you know that in this case that this person became more well regulated but her telling me that 12-step helped led me to realize that perhaps addiction was probably the more powerful piece of that story we'll sometimes see sort of competing kinds of patterns but by and large I have not I mean it is the realistic expectation though to your point the reason that book is called should I stay or should I go is about 50 of people stay in these relations yeah that's what they do yeah and the reasons vary from finances to children to religion to culture to I still love this person too I'm afraid whatever their reasons are no one not me not you not anyone gets to judge those reasons what I believe in as a therapist is to meet them where they are at with that and say okay so that's I unders I hear you I don't get to sit here and tell you you don't love this person you love them you love them I'm here to tell you this is what you can realistically expect if you stay right and I I use this um sort of metaphor of going into the Tiger's cage when I'm talking with survivors which is there's a tiger there's a cage if it's really a tiger and you go in that cage you're gonna get torn apart if it's not a Tiger It's a sweet little cat no you might have a nice little experience but maybe the only way you and I'm telling you and even if I tell you it's a tiger you may not believe me until you get in that cage so I know that sometimes my clients say I have to let them go and let them go into the cage when they get torn apart my job is to help bring them back together again and so going into the Tiger's cage is something sometimes people need to do is say I just need to be sure that's what yeah yeah and I say I understand that's part of your journey and I'm gonna support you in that I'm here I because I think some clients think like well Dr Roman is going to be offended if I go you know and I'm like you know as somebody who has gone back who continues to maintain more than a few narcissistic relationships in my life four reasons of culture we're both South Asian we know there's a tremendous pressure in South Asian Middle East are actually in many cultures to sustain committed relationships and family so I can't roll into those cultures and say yeah you gotta go that's not an option but saying to people that you are not going to get a depth of emotional need met here you are going to be invalidated the work has to be in you not believing what they're saying they are not going to grow empathy they're going to remain entitled you need to you need to develop other sources of support and that might be through friends through family through spirituality however however you find those spaces where you feel seen and heard like I said whether through other human beings the universe God whatever that looks like for you that's your work so when you realize that maybe the normal depth of a relationship of a healthy relationship is this you got this yeah and you're gonna have to be ready for that roller coaster of the bad days the good days and not personalize it but in the long term jay staying in that toxic setting is going to take a toll on those people even with all the realistic expectations it takes a toll on a person well I think you've just hit something that that's the real growth that whether you decide to stay or you decide to go the work of figuring out who you are and what's important to you what your self-worth is based on what your value is that's going to happen either way hopefully I hope what that's that's going to be a path that hopefully you'll have to take either way and so whatever you're going to do please take that path because that's a path that stays with you forever but to take that path quietly so you don't get to so the ultimate healing in the narcissistic relationship comes from a process called individuation you become you out it's imagine like a tree some that's so shadowing that the plants under it can't grow because they're blocked from the Sun our goal is to get you out of the shadow of their branches to no longer have to serve as a in psychological servitude to them that you get to individuate the problem is they don't want to hear it or see it sort of psychologically alive in a narcissistic relationship you have to skirt a very challenging line of being authentic in other spaces but not in that relationship because that's really hard because your authenticity will be shaved away but if you make it a very conscious act that once again that inner bodyguard I am protecting myself right now they don't get to see all of me because they are not able to hold me safe and I deserve that so I'm going to put authentic me away for a minute and I'm just gonna show up not gonna be cruel not going to be unkind I'm going to show up and do what I got to do you know whether that's just sort of keep the trains running on time I work with clients honestly Jay coming up with a list of neutral conversation topics the weather with someone who's said it beautifully the other day they said sports news weather you know like that's pretty much all you can talk about in these relationships right and weather tends to be the safest can you believe this rain it's really cloudy I wonder when it's gonna get warm again I mean is and people say but that's not a relationship I said it never was yeah so you learn that piece but you allow your authenticity to bloom in safer situations it's like a plant that can only bloom in the night but not in the day right the flower is gorgeous at night but there's reasons it can't be bloomed in the day you're still going to bloom but you become a much more intentional and mindful person in your life that you really say yourself consciously even like you might be pulled in front of a friend's house and say I can't bring all of me into this you breathe in and you go and you show up as sort of part of yourself but not all of yourself and you know what you know who the real loser in that is that fool of a person who doesn't get to participate in the full Glory the full authentic Glory of who you are they lost not you and you protected yourself and that that part requires the reason why I'm hearing from you why that path after 10 years in the letter as you said is is even so tough is because being a less version of yourselves takes so much strength and so much courage it's it's not weakness it takes so much energy to be a less version of yourself because someone doesn't allow you to be your full self correct it's a restraint but it's not and I think for too many people in these relationships they're this attenuated less authentic version of themselves they think that they're actually less than and I say you're not less than you are actually caring for yourself you're learning that you can't bring that in and I have to be frank with you Jay when people really get this right they're like okay I'm not doing this anymore because what they were doing before was they really were acting in a way that they thought if I do it this way they'll change if I do it that way I said change is off the table from here on forward you're moving forward with change off the table and I'll tell you that pressed the accelerator for many people saying even if they didn't leave entirely in Intimate Relationships they often left but in family relationships they'll say I think I'm going to take a pass on Thanksgiving this year I think I'm going to not I'm only gonna go for one day of the family wedding like they start setting some real boundaries and they learn to tolerate other people saying well isn't she uppity for not showing up like that tolerance of people engaging this sort of enabling discourse of oh you're not a team player or now you're the one who's difficult to recognize that when people take these rather revolutionary steps of taking care of themselves that again I do believe that self-care and that restraint in these kinds of toxic relationships is literally an act of rebellion yeah and I love what the example you gave that certain cultures whether it's cultural societal Financial pressures that stop us from walking away what are some of the healthier boundaries people can set up so one boundary is I'm gonna make time for myself to bloom to be authentic in my own space I'm gonna find friends in community that that I take strength from are there other healthy boundaries that people can set if they are currently staying in this situation based on financial societal or family expectations or pressures not to engage in the same way I think a lot of people would get sort of with the dog with a bone kind of a fight with them right it's just sort of letting it go people will say I I don't want to relent I'm like what then don't relent with people you actually who are healthy and can go be very sort of deep mindful circumspect people don't get into that argument with them unless you just want to get into an argument for the sake of getting into an argument something else that people need to be prepared with in these sort of narcissistic relational situations is that there's a lot of baiting if you're not giving the arguments and being as gaslightable as you once were that's not very satisfying for them so they're going to find a way to go for the jugular to make you bleed and make you fight back and I say to people you've got to know sort of your your true north as it were and you might not take 90 of arguments but if they go after some of those things you hold sacred it could be your children it could be a belief system you have it could be um people other people you care about whatever it is if they go for that then you're like you know what I'm I'm going in I'm a tiger's cage I'm going in I am going to I can't listen to this I can't do this but recognize it's not going to change anything and it's a question of which depletion is worth worse at that point holding yourself silent at such a point or actually having the argument and then I tell people if you decide to go in and do that you need to engage in some form of just coming back down whatever that looks like for you after these kinds of interactions because many many people will say after they've had to spend time with a very toxic difficult antagonistic narcissistic call it what you will person they'll feel really depleted and if you keep having those episodes of depletion you're going to get sick yeah I've also found that I mean more from an experienced point of view that the more you're associating with that energy the more likely you become or adopt certain behaviors too I don't know if you've seen that where certain people start adopting similar patterns similar behaviors in order to be able to fight back and defend themselves as a defense mechanism not saying that you become narcissistic but that you also respond by gaslighting or trying to you know you're using that person's game against them because that's the only place to survive and you're doing it consciously but eventually I mean it just becomes unconscious to some degree I don't know if you've seen it I've seen that I've definitely seen it where people will know that you change you know that no I think that people will say I don't know how often you'd be willing to steal food but you'd steal it if you were hungry yeah it doesn't make you a thief yes that's right yeah yeah you know and that's the um we would all do things we don't ordinarily do to survive and I think that some people until they understand this personality style doesn't change that you have to have these realistic expectations all of of that until people get that they do keep sort of getting into the tango with them which may mean you know shifts in terms of frustration dysregulation um their own empathy May Wane we know that there's something called compassion fatigue compassion fatigue is very contiguous to burnout and people in these relationships will say my empathy has gone to hell like people are telling me their problems I'm like I I don't have it anymore and it's not that your empathy has gone away but it's almost like it's been a one you've just it's almost like a vessel where the compassion's only going out and very little is coming in yeah Dr Romney this has been incredible to talk to you and I just want to recommend the books because we only touch the tip of the iceberg the book um there's two books here that I highly recommend one is called should I stay or should I go um you're gonna hear about chapters about how did you get sucked in how do they make you feel and of course answering the question should I say or should I go if you are a friend or in a tough position in this kind of a relationship then this book's going to help you make that decision extremely practical applicable advice and the other book is called Don't You Know Who I Am how to stay sane in an era of narcissism entitlement and incivility um this book is also available right now and so I highly recommend both these books uh Dr Romney is there anything that you didn't share that you really want to share from your heart or something that's on your mind or something in the moment that you feel inspired or call upon to share with us today I think that for me it is the I'm tired of the loss of human potential I'm seeing in these relationships wow whether it's a five-year relationship or 60-year relationship and while it is very hard for a person to actualize and give light to their best self while they're in these relationships it's not impossible and I have worked with people who have been in Long long-term relationships like this and yet I see this their empathy and compassion are deeply retained they still do laugh deeply and and they'll say you know and they'll say listen we I can't in my in my world in my life and my culture I can't end this but that doesn't mean there's not joy in my life and I think for me what I want to do is I think everyone's been misplacing their hope in the narcissistic relationship The Hope needs to be in oneself and that the Hope has to be that there is this this tremendous untold story in you and it is your story not the story of them in your life but you and yours and to give sort of flight to that Narrative of you that to me is that's the work that's the healing and to let when people say do I does this ever fully go away and the answer is no it doesn't it is something that's there and I'll say survivors have a unique beauty right it's roomy and it's the wound where the you know the wound is where the light enters you and all of that there we say the survivors can see each other in the room right they're the ones in the audience that are sort of like you know with I'm finally being heard and seen kind of thing and they they've had a different Journey it's I'm not saying it's better or worse or more virtuous but there is a there can be this sort of depth you bring into your life after having been through it it's a loss of Innocence yeah I have to say you will you'll never sort of laugh and be in the same way but you may sort of when the laughter comes it feels like a gift and I think that that many survivors say I'm I'm ruined not only not ruined there's a depth to your to your inner beauty that really comes out I'm not saying anyone should seek it out by the way it will find you that's the problem with narcissism in our culture and so like I said this is being done through storytelling in my podcast I try to teach about it but above all else to me the work is helping people heal from this because I don't believe anyone is defined by this yeah no that's so powerful uh everyone's been listening and watching the podcast let's go navigating narcissism make sure you go listen And subscribe YouTube channel as well uh Dr Romney and of course on Instagram make sure you tag us across platforms whether you're sharing Clips on Tick Tock whether you're sharing in your stories or your posts on Instagram make sure you tag Dr Romney and I letting us know what stayed with you what stuck with you what you're going to share with a friend maybe there was a moment that you know someone in your life needs to hear make sure you pause this episode along to them I hope this episode very clearly defined and described for you narcissism gaslighting love bombing really trying to break down what these terms actually are how you can get an instinct for sensing them knowing when they're there and then the steps that you can take which are laid out beautifully in the books and the content that we've recommended uh really hoping that you find the help and support that you need in order to navigate narcissism in your life in any form and we're going to be welcoming Dr Romney back onto the podcast many many times to have future conversations about this theme in different areas of Our Lives as well so Dr Romney thank you so much for your time and energy honestly your work is so needed and so powerful and what I love uh from sitting down with you every time is not only is my mind stimulated not only do I feel my intelligence is gained I always feel moved by the words you share as well in my heart space and I really appreciate that so I thank you so thank you so much for opening your heart and letting that happen too if you want even more videos just like this one make sure you subscribe and click on the boxes over here I'm also excited to let you know that you can now get my book think like a monk from think like a monkbook.com check Below in the description to make sure you order today

Channel: Jay Shetty Podcast

Views: 1,003,763

Keywords: Jay Shetty, Jay Shetty Podcast, Jay Shetty Interview, On Purpose Podcast, Jay Shetty Inspiration, Jay Shetty Motivation, Jay Shetty Video, Self help, Self improvement, Self development, entrepreneur, success habits, purpose podcast, Jay Shetty relationships

Id: z4z93S8ri4U

Length: 73min 39sec (4419 seconds)

Published: Mon Dec 12 2022