I WENT THROUGH A PERIOD
IN MY LIFE WHERE HE WAS JUST BEING CRUSHED. MY HEART WAS
BROKEN. I WAS WORRIED. IT WAS ONE OF THE MOST
DISTRAUGHT MOMENTS IN MY LIFE, AND I WAS LITERALLY
CRYING WHEN I TOLD GOD THIS. I SAID, LORD,
I HATE THIS. I ABSOLUTELY HATE THIS. BUT I LOVE YOU, AND I
KNOW YOU WOULD NOT ALLOW ME TO GO THROUGH THIS IF
IT WERE NOT FOR MY GOOD. - TD JAKES: THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING. - YES. - I FEEL LIKE MORE THAN
A GROUPIE THAN A GUEST. I'VE ADMIRED YOU OVER THE
MAJOR PARTS OF MY LIFE AND READ SO MANY YOUR
BOOKS SO I'M ANXIOUS TO HAVE THIS OPPORTUNITY. I MIGHT PULL
OUT MY POM-POMS. - OH, WE'VE BEEN
WORKING ON PULLING THIS OFF FOR A COUPLE
YEARS, HAVEN'T WE? - THAT'S
ABSOLUTELY TRUE. - WE GOT DERAILED A
TIME OR TWO BUT HERE WE ARE. - THANK YOU FOR
THIS OPPORTUNITY. - AND IT IS TRULY
AN HONOR FOR ME. - THANK YOU. - IT TRULY IS. I KNOW THERE ARE SEVERAL
MILLION PEOPLE WHO WOULD LOVE TO HAVE THIS CHAIR
RATE NOW SO I'M GOING TO DO MY BEST TO REPRESENT
THEM AND WE'RE JUST GOING TO HAVE A GREAT
CONVERSATION. - WE'RE GOING
TO HAVE FUN. - WE SURE ARE. WE SURE ARE. I JUST WISH I COULD BE
AT YOUR DINNER TABLE. I HEAR YOU'RE
A GREAT COOK. - I CAN THROW
DOWN A LITTLE BIT. [LAUGHTER] I DON'T DO IT OFTEN
BECAUSE I'M NOT A HEALTHY COOK. I'M A HOLIDAY COOK. - THAT'S OKAY. OKAY. WHAT WOULD WE BE EATING
IF WE WERE SITTING AT YOUR TABLE? - BANANA PUDDINGS
FROM SCRATCH. I DO SOUL FOOD,
OLD-FASHIONED GRANDMA-STYLE COOKING. A LOT OF DESERTS. PINEAPPLE UPSIDE
DOWN CAKES. RED VELVET CAKES. ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF. - LOOK AT YOU. I'M GETTING HUNGRY. SOMEBODY SEND OUT
FOR SOME FOOD. HURRY! GET IT IN HERE. - THE BAD STUFF. ALL THE BAD STUFF. - YOU DON'T
USE A COOKBOOK? - I DO SOMETIMES. SOMETIMES. NOT FOR MY MOTHER'S
RECIPES WHICH WERE HER MOTHER'S RECIPES . I HAVE SOME GRANDMA LEFT
IN ME, SO FROM TIME TO TIME I DO. IF IT'S SOMETHING NEW OR
DIFFERENT, THEN I WILL, BUT I DON'T FOLLOW
THE RECIPE LONG. I KIND OF ADD MY OWN
LITTLE SPIN TO IT. - DO YOU EVER COOK JUST
FOR YOURSELF OR DO YOU LIKE TO COOK FOR
A LOT OF PEOPLE? - I LIKE TO COOK
FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE. - IS THAT RIGHT? - I LIKE TO COOK FOR
A LOT OF HUNGRY PEOPLE. - HUNGRY PEOPLE. - I LIKE TO COOK FOR
PEOPLE WHO MAKE NOISES WHEN THEY EAT. [LAUGHTER] - SO BELCHING
IS PERMITTED? - YEAH, BELCHING AND
GROANING AND MOANING AND TELLING ME HOW GOOD IT
IS WILL MAKE ME COOK ALL NIGHT LONG. - WHAT IF I NEED TO
LOOSEN A BELT NOTCH? - OH, I'D LOVE YOU. I'D JUST LOVE YOU THEN. - THAT'S OKAY. - ABSOLUTELY. - WELL, THAT'S GREAT. OH, MY GOODNESS. YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO
TALK IN JUST A MOMENT, WE'RE GOING TO HEAD IN
THIS DIRECTION OF THIS AMAZING BOOK. I READ IT IN ONE SITTING. IT'S NOT OUT YET BUT I
GOT AN ADVANCED READER COPY, AND I CAN'T WAIT,
AND I THINK I HAVE MORE PAGES DOG EARED THAN
NOT DOG EARED, SO THE CHALLENGE IS GOING TO
BE LIMITING, PICKING THE PARTS I DO WANT
TO TALK ABOUT. BUT COULD WE
TALK ABOUT YOU? - SURE. - WHAT MAKES YOU YOU, KIND
OF WHERE YOU CAME FROM, THE INFLUENCES
IN YOUR LIFE. I KNOW MOST PEOPLE KNOW
BUT FOR THOSE WHO DON'T YOU GREW UP IN
WEST VIRGINIA. - CHARLESTON. - CHARLESTON,
WEST VIRGINIA. CAN YOU TELL US A LITTLE
BIT ABOUT YOUR HOME LIFE? - A HILL BILLY
TURNED COWBOY. [LAUGHTER] I GREW UP -- MY SISTER WHO
IS HERE IN THE AUDIENCE TONIGHT AND I HAVE ONE
SISTER, ONE BROTHER. I WAS THE YOUNGEST ONE
IN MY FAMILY, A FAMILY OF FIVE. MY PARENTS MIGRATED -- MY
PARENTS MIGRATED TO WEST VIRGINIA FROM
MISSISSIPPI. MY FATHER WAS
FROM MISSISSIPPI. MY MOTHER WAS
FROM ALABAMA. MY MOTHER WAS
AN EDUCATOR. MY FATHER WAS AN
ENTREPRENEUR WHO STARTED A JANITORIAL SERVICE AND
WE GREW UP IN THE 60'S IN THE TURBULENCE, VERY
MEAGER, VERY MEAGER BEGINNINGS. IN RETROSPECT, I REALIZE
THEY WERE MEAGER. AT THE TIME, I DIDN'T
KNOW WE WERE POOR. THEY HID IT FROM US
BECAUSE WE WERE SO FILLED WITH SO MANY OTHER THINGS
MORE IMPORTANT LIKE LOVE AND LOYALTY AND A SENSE
OF CONNECTIVITY AND A FAMILY COHESIVENESS THAT
AT THIS AGE MY BROTHER AND SISTER AND I STILL
LIVE IN THE SAME CITY. - DO YOU REALLY? - WE'RE STILL TOGETHER. - STILL CONNECTED. - YEAH. WE'RE STILL TOGETHER. MY MOTHER WHEN SHE WAS
DYING TOLD US TO STAY TOGETHER ALL THE WAY TO
THE END, AND WE HAVE DONE THAT. - WOW. - YEAH. - YOUR FATHER PASSED
WHEN YOU WERE YOUNG. - YES. - CAN YOU TELL ABOUT
HOW THAT HAPPENED? WHAT HAPPENED AND HOW
THAT IMPACTED YOU. - I THINK THAT PROBABLY
HAD MORE TO SHAPE MY MINISTRY, HAD TO DO WITH
SHAPING MY MINISTRY THAN ANYTHING ELSE. HE GOT SICK
WHEN I WAS TEN. HE WAS A VERY BIG ROBUST
SORT OF A MAN, VERY HARD WORKING, STRONG WORK
ETHIC SORT OF AN INDIVIDUAL. MY SUPER HERO OF SORTS. HE GOT SICK. HIS BLOOD PRESSURE WENT
UP TO 290 OVER 280, SHUT DOWN HIS KIDNEYS, HE
HAD RENAL FAILURE. THEY WERE IN THE EARLY
STAGES OF DIALYSIS. WE WERE ONE OF THE FIRST
PEOPLE IN OUR AREA TO START HAVING DIALYSIS,
INITIALLY DRIVING BACK AND FORTH TO CLEVELAND,
OHIO, SO I GREW UP IN TRAUMA, IN CRISIS, AND
MY MOTHER WAS DRIVING MY FATHER BACK AND FORTH TO
CLEVELAND CLINIC TWICE A WEEK. - TWICE A WEEK. - AND THEN WE GOT OUR
OWN KIDNEY MACHINE, AND TO BE HONEST WITH YOU
I COULD RUN A KIDNEY MACHINE AND COULDN'T
RIDE A BICYCLE. - WELL, MY GOODNESS. YOU WERE TEN YEARS
OLD WHEN HE WAS SICK? - YES. SO MY WHOLE FOCUS WAS
ABOUT TAKING CARE OF HIM, SO HE LIVED UNTIL I WAS
16 YEARS OLD, AND THEN HE PASSED AWAY, AND I THINK
AS TRAGIC AS IT WAS AND IT WAS TRAGIC FOR ME, IT
WAS TRAUMATIC BECAUSE HE DIED IN THE CONFUSION OF
MY ADOLESCENCE, IN THE TURMOIL OF WHO AM I -- - IT'S HARD ENOUGH
TO BE A 16 YEAR OLD. - ABSOLUTELY. - IF EVERYTHING
IS WONDERFUL. - YES. - BUT TO HAVE
THAT HAPPEN. - WHEN YOU HAVE THAT
SICKNESS IN THE HOME, IT BECOMES THE CENTERPIECE OF THE
FAMILY, AND EVERYTHING ELSE HAS TO
BE BUILT AROUND THAT, AND YOU HAVE TO TAKE A
SUBORDINATE ROLE BECAUSE OF THE CRISIS. SO BEING RAISED IN CRISIS
SHAPED MY PERCEPTION OF WHAT WAS IMPORTANT, AND
IN SOME WAY OR ANOTHER I'VE ALWAYS BEEN TAKING
CARE OF HURTING PEOPLE ALL MY LIFE, AND SO IT IS
MY DEFAULT SETTING TO GO INTO THAT ZONE WHETHER
IT IS SPIRITUAL OR PHYSICAL PAIN. ALL MY LIFE HAS BEEN IN
SOME WAY A CARETAKER, SO ENDING UP A SHEPHERD OF
A CHURCH KIND OF MAKES SENSE FOR ME, BUT IT WAS
THE ABSENCE OF MY FATHER AND THE ACHING VOID AND
THE DEEP ABYSS OF MY CONFUSION AND ALIENATION
THAT CREATED A THIRST TO FIND SOMETHING TO FILL
THAT CHASM THAT HE LEFT, AND I THINK THAT CAUSED
ME TO HAVE A RAVENOUS APPROACH TO GOD. - HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN
THAT IT DIDN'T CAUSE YOU TO HAVE A RAVENOUS
DESIRE FOR DRUGS OR FOR ANGER OR BITERNESS -- - I PASSED
BY ALL OF THAT. - OKAY. - ON THE WAY TO JESUS. [LAUGHTER] - YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. - YOU WAVED. - YEAH, I PASSED BY ALL
OF THAT ON THE WAY TO JESUS. THE THING WAS THERE WAS
A CALL ON MY LIFE WHEN I PASSED BY THOSE THINGS
THAT WAS DISRUPTIVE AND DISTURBING AND
UNRELENTING, AND I KNEW THAT I WAS HERE
FOR A REASON. I SAW GLIMPSES OF MY
FUTURE EVEN BEFORE HE DIED. AS A KID GOING TO HEAR
MY MOTHER SPEAK, I WOULD TELL HER RIGHT NOW I'M
GOING TO HEAR YOU SPEAK, AND THEY CALL ME
MISS JAKES' SON. THE TIME WILL COME YOU'LL
COME TO HEAR ME SPEAK AND THEY'LL CALL YOU TOM
JAKES' MOTHER, BUT I DIDN'T KNOW I WOULD
BE A PREACHER. I JUST KNEW -- I SAW
GLIMPSES OF MYSELF. - YOU COULD SEE THAT. - YES, IN FRONT OF A
CROWD AND TALKING TO PEOPLE. I'VE ALWAYS BEEN
FASCINATED BY PEOPLE, AND I STARTED OUT IN CHURCH
ON THE PIANO FOR THE CHOIR. - DID YOU REALLY? - YEAH, GOD TRICKED ME. [LAUGHTER] I THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO
BE A GOSPEL ARTIST, BUT AS I GREW INTO THE MUSIC
REALM, I NOTICED THAT PEOPLE GOT MORE BLESSED
OVER MY INTRODUCTION THAN THEY DID MY SONGS. AND I THOUGHT MAYBE I
NEED TO SCOOT OVER A LITTLE BIT THIS
WAY, YOU KNOW. AND YOU KNOW, DESTINY IS
SOMETHING THAT WE GROPE AFTER. PROVIDENCE AND PURPOSE
IS SOMETHING THAT WE SEE THROUGH A VERY DARK
GLASS, AND SOME OF THE MOST MOMENTOUS MOMENTS IN
MY LIFE I STUMBLED INTO GROPING TO UNDERSTAND
WHY, WHY AM I HERE AND WHO AM I REALLY. AND THOSE QUESTIONS TO ME
ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANSWERS. WHETHER I COME TO A TEXT,
I NEVER COME TO A TEXT WITH WHAT I KNOW. I THINK THAT THE SMARTEST
PREACHER IS ONE WHO COMES TO THE TEXT AS A FOOL. AND WHAT COMES OUT OF
THAT FOOL HEARTY HUMILITY IS REVELATION KNOWLEDGE. IF YOU COME TO THE TEXT
TOO SMART YOU HAVE A PRECONCEIVED IDEA OF WHAT
IT SAYS, AND YOU CAN'T HEAR REVELATION BECAUSE
YOU HEAR TOO MUCH INFORMATION. - THAT'S GOOD. - YEAH. YEAH. [APPLAUSE] - YOU FIGURE YOU GOT
IT ALL FIGURED OUT. - ABSOLUTELY. ABSOLUTELY.
ABSOLUTELY. AND I STARTED CARRYING MY
BIBLE WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL, THE LATTER YEARS
OF HIGH SCHOOL, AND THEY STARTED CALLING
ME A BOY PREACHER. - DID THEY? - AND I WAS CARRYING MY
BIBLE TRYING TO FIND -- AT MOMENTS I WAS TRYING
TO FIND GOD, AND TO BE HONEST IN MOMENTS I WAS
TRYING TO FIND MY FATHER. AND SUDDENLY I REALIZE
THAT THEY WERE THE SAME. YEAH, THAT HE WAS NOT
THIS SUPREME BEING THAT DIDN'T HAVE THE CAPACITY
TO BE INTIMATE, THAT HE COULD BE MY FATHER, THAT
I COULD CLIMB UP INTO HIS ARMS, AND THAT I COULD
TELL HIM MY DEEPEST DARKEST SECRETS, AND THAT
I COULD TRUST HIM, AND SO RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM
NURTURED ME MORE THAN RELIGION, SO THERE HAS
ALWAYS BEEN SOME FRICTION BETWEEN RELIGION AND
RELATIONSHIP, AND THOUGH I GREW UP IN THE CHURCH
IN A LITTLE BAPTIST CHURCH IN WEST VIRGINIA,
AND THEN LATER IN A PENTECOSTAL CHURCH IN
MY TEENS RELIGION NEVER COULD HIDE HIS FACE FROM
ME TO THE DEGREE THAT I DIDN'T SEE RELATIONSHIP
IS FAR MORE FULFILLING AND SATISFYING. - YEAH. DOES IT SURPRISE YOU
THAT YOU BECAME A PASTOR? - OH, YES. [LAUGHTER] OH, YES, FOR
REASONS I WON'T SAY ON TV. [LAUGHTER] YOU SHOULD
TALKING ABOUT LEAST LIKELY TO BE IN
THIS SITUATION. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I WAS
A TERROR AS A LITTLE KID. - IF WE COULD SOMEHOW GO
BACK TO THE TEN YEAR OLD VERSION OF YOU -- NO. - SCARY. SCARY. BUT INQUISITIVE. EVERYTHING, I BELIEVE
THAT EVERYTHING WE EVER BECOME WE ALREADY
WERE IN SEED FORM. - I WOULD. - AND ACORNS DON'T LOOK
LIKE OAK TREES BUT THEY'RE IN THERE. - THE DESIGN
IS IN THE SEED. - ABSOLUTELY. AND SO WHEN I LOOK
BACK AT MY DNA AND MY PROPENSITY TO LEAD AND MY
PROCLIVITY TO TALK AND MY FASCINATION WITH LIFE, MY
MOTHER USED TO SAY THAT THE WORLD IS A
UNIVERSITY, AND EVERYONE IN IT IS A TEACHER. WHEN YOU WAKE UP IN THE
MORNING, BE SURE YOU GO TO SCHOOL. AND I'VE BEEN DOING
THAT ALL OF MY LIFE. I'VE LEARNED FROM
EVERYBODY I EVER MET, GOOD OR BAD,
RIGHT OR WRONG. I LEARNED SOMETHING. - YOU'RE
CURIOUS, AREN'T YOU? - OH, EXTREMELY. EXTREMELY. - CAN YOU TELL
US ABOUT YOUR MOTHER? - OH, FOR THE
REST OF THE NIGHT. [LAUGHTER] I THINK
I GET MY FIGHT FROM MY MOTHER. MY MOTHER WAS A WARRIOR. MY MOTHER GRADUATED FROM
HIGH SCHOOL WHEN SHE WAS 15 YEARS OLD, GREW
UP IN MARION, ALABAMA. WENT TO SCHOOL WITH
CORETTA SCOTT KING. - SHE DID? - YES, SANG IN THE CHOIR
WHEN SHE KNEW THE SCOTT FAMILY VERY WELL. GOT OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL AT
15 AND DID FOUR YEARS OF COLLEGE IN 3 AND CAME OUT
WITH A DOUBLE MAJOR AND WENT TO DO HER STUDENT
TEACHING IN MISSISSIPPI. LATER ON WHEN SHE WAS 50
WENT BACK AND WENT AFTER HER MASTER'S TEACHING
CHILDREN WITH LEARNING DISABILITIES, SO MY
MOTHER GREW UP QUOTING POETRY AND POEMS AND PROSE
TO US AND ALL OF THAT SORT OF THING, AND SHE
DIDN'T START TEACHING SCHOOL UNTIL I WAS OF
AGE, SO SHE WENT FROM TEACHING SCHOOL TO BEING
EVENTUALLY THE EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES
REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA
ADVANCEMENT. - IS THAT RIGHT? - SHE WAS SMART. SHE WAS STRONG. SHE DID NOT BELIEVE
IN YOU GIVING UP AND BREAKING DOWN AND LETTING
GO, AND SHE'D SAY GET YOURSELF TOGETHER. [LAUGHTER] YOU
KNOW WHAT I MEAN? AND EVERY TIME, EVEN TO
THIS DAY EVERY TIME I FEEL MYSELF ABOUT TO GIVE
WAY TO THE STRESS AND THE PRESSURES OF MY LIFE,
I CAN HEAR MY MOTHER'S VOICE IN MY HEAD SAYING
GET YOURSELF TOGETHER. DON'T YOU LET THEM
THROW YOU OVER. YOU KNOW? SHE WAS LIKE A COACH,
AND SOME OF THAT IS IN MY PREACHING. SOMETIMES I CAN HEAR HER
VOICE IN MY PREACHING, THAT RELENTLESS TENACITY NOT TO
ALLOW THE VICISSITUDES OF LIFE TO OVERWHELM YOUR SOUL
COMES FROM MORE THAN FAITH IN GOD. IT COMES FROM FERVOR IN
THE HUMAN SPIRIT THAT HAS BEEN MODELED IN FRONT
OF YOU BY THE PEOPLE WHO WENT BEFORE YOU. THERE'S SO MANY PEOPLE
SITTING IN THIS CHAIR RIGHT NOW IT'S A WONDER
IT DOESN'T FALL TO THE FLOOR. [LAUGHTER] - YOU'VE GOT A
WHOLE LEGACY. - MY MOTHER, MY FATHER,
MY GRANDMOTHER, MY GREAT GRANDMOTHER ARE
SITTING HERE. MY GREAT-GREAT
GRANDMOTHER WHO WAS A SLAVE NAMED NANCY
JAKES THAT I REMEMBER., SHE'S SITTING IN
THIS CHAIR WITH ME. - REALLY? - MY GREAT-GREAT
GRANDFATHER, WILLIE SMILEY WHOSE MOTHER WAS
A SLAVE AND DIED WHEN HE WAS 103 YEARS OLD, HE'S
SITTING HERE WITH ME, TOO. I AM THE SUM TOTAL OF
HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE WHO SHAPED MY LIFE, AND THEY
ARE GONE PHYSICALLY, BUT THEY ALL LEFT
INDENTATIONS ON MY SOUL. - A WHOLE LEGACY. - ABSOLUTELY. I THINK THAT'S
TRUE OF ALL OF US. - WELL, IT IS. - ALL OF US ARE THE SUM
TOTAL OF SMALL DEPOSITS THAT ARE MADE BY
THE PEOPLE WHO PASS BY US ALONG THE WAY. - WAS THERE A PERSON
-- OH, I HAVE SO MANY THINGS I WANT TO ASK YOU. A MENTOR, AN INFLUENCE
OUTSIDE OF YOUR FAMILY, MAYBE A TEACHER,
PASTOR, COACH, NEIGHBOR. - MY SPIRITUAL
FATHER, BISHOP SHERMAN WATKINS FROM
COLUMBUS, OHIO. HE'S STILL ALIVE. HE'S 21 YEARS OLDER THAN
ME, AND HE'S JUST HAD AN INDELIBLE IMPRESSION
ON MY LIFE. - HOW DID YOU CONNECT
WITH HIM AND WHAT WAS THE DIFFERENCE? - HE WAS A YOUNG
MAN, AND I WAS A KID. THE FIRST TIME I HEARD
HIM PREACH I WAS 16, AND WHEN I WAS 16 HE MUST
HAVE BEEN 37, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, 27, AND I
HEARD HIM PREACH, AND LITTLE BY LITTLE, HE
LIVED IN COLUMBUS, I LIVED IN WEST VIRGINIA,
OVER THE YEARS OF MY EARLY PASTORATE HE WAS
THE ONE WHO SENT ME TO MY FIRST CHURCH. HE WAS THE ONE WHO LAID
HANDS ON ME AND LICENSED ME AND ORDAINED ME. HE WAS THE ONE WHO
WOULD CHASTEN ME. AND THE FUNNY THING ABOUT
BEING A GUY IS THAT WE GET LOVE FROM CORRECTION. - YEAH. - YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOVE
ME ENOUGH TO GET IN MY FACE, THEN I
RESPECT THAT. I RESPECT THAT. OH, HE WOULD
GET IN MY FACE. [LAUGHTER] AND
THAT BECAME TERMS OF ENDEARMENT. A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T
UNDERSTAND THAT. THEY ONLY RECOGNIZE MAMA
LOVE, AND SO THEY ONLY DEFINE LOVE BY NURTURING
AND TENDER WORDS. THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND
THAT I COME FROM AN ERA WHEN MEN RAISE BOYS TO
STAND UP, AND THERE WAS SOMETHING EXPECTED
OF YOU, YOU KNOW. AND SO I RESPONDED
READILY TO HIM. AND HE'S A GREAT
INVOICE IN MY LIFE. THE OTHER DAY HE WAS
COMING DOWN OFF THE STAGE, AND I WAS TRYING
TO HELP HIM OFF THE STAGE, YOU KNOW, AND HE
LOOKED AT ME AND HE SAID, NOT YET. [LAUGHTER] NOT YET. - NOT YET. [LAUGHTER] - IS HE STILL PREACHING? - HE'S STILL PREACHING. HE IS STILL
PREACHING, YOU KNOW. AT 82 OR 83 YEARS OLD HE'S
STILL PREACHING THE GOSPEL EVERY SUNDAY AND
TEACHING ON WEDNESDAY NIGHTS, AND NOT ONLY
IS HE PREACHING, HE'S CALLING ME UP AND TELLING
ME WHAT HE'S GOING TO PREACH. [LAUGHTER] SO THAT'S A
WONDERFUL THING. - YOU MUST BRING A
LOT OF JOY TO HIS LIFE. - WE DO
TO EACH OTHER. WHEN FATHERS AND SONS
BECOME OLDER, THE GRADUATION OF SONSHIP IS
TO BECOME YOUR FATHER'S FRIEND, AND THERE'S NO
HIGHER HONOR THAN TO BE YOUR FATHER'S FRIEND. - YEAH. YEAH. I KNOW WE'RE GOING TO GET
TO THE BOOK [LAUGHTER] BUT I'M STILL CURIOUS,
THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO GREW UP IN A SIMPLE
BACKGROUND, HAD THEIR SHARE OF CHALLENGES, NOT
AS MANY AS YOU, BUT THEY HAD THEIR CHALLENGES, AND
YET THEY COME OUT ANGRY, BITTER, BITTER TOWARD
GOD, BITTER TOWARD THE WORLD. THEY ANESTHETIZE THEIR
PAIN RATHER THAN DEAL WITH THEIR PAIN. IN YOUR BOOK CRUSHING,
YOU TALK ABOUT HOW IF WE BELIEVE IN A SOVEREIGN
GOD WE CAN SEE THAT THESE ARE ORDAINED STRUGGLES
THAT MAKE US WHO WE ARE. - RIGHT. - WHERE DID YOU
PICK UP ON THAT? I MEAN, IF YOU HADN'T
HAVE KNOWN THAT, BISHOP, YOU MIGHT HAVE
BECOME BITTER. - YOU KNOW, SOME OF
IT CAME FROM NOT BEING ALLOWED TO FEEL
SORRY FOR YOURSELF. SOME OF IT CAME FROM
MY MOTHER'S RELENTLESS TENACIOUS COMMITMENT
TO YOU STANDING UP. SOME OF IT CAME THROUGH
-- I WAS BORN IN BETWEEN TWO DEAD BABIES. - OH, MY. - THE ONE AND BEFORE
ME AND AFTER ME DIED. I WAS THE ONE THAT LIVED,
SO I LEARNED EARLY THAT LIFE WAS PRECIOUS. AND THEN MY FATHER
DIED WHEN I WAS 16, AND THERE'S NOTHING LIKE
LOWERING YOUR FATHER IN THE GROUND TO MAKE YOU
BREATHE LIFE MORE DEEPLY AS IF YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE
TOMORROW BECAUSE NOW YOU'RE AWARE YOU COULD
POSSIBLY NOT HAVE TOMORROW. MY GREATEST BIRTHDAY WAS
MY 49TH BIRTHDAY BECAUSE HE DIED WHEN HE WAS 48,
AND WHEN I BECAME 49 I BROKE THE CURSE. SO THAT WAS A GREAT
THING FOR ME TO DO THAT. THIS WHOLE NOTION AND
THIS FIDELITY THAT I HAVE WITH THE SCRIPTURES AND
PARTICULARLY WITH THE WHOLE CRUSHING THING CAME
WHILE I WAS SITTING OUT ON THE TERRACE. I GOT THIS WORD FROM THE
LORD THAT COMES TO ME IN THE STRANGEST KIND OF
WAY THAT THE SEED OF THE WOMAN WOULD BRUISE THE
HEAD OF THE SERPENT AND THE SERPENT WOULD
BRUISE HIS HEEL. AND THERE SITTING OUT ON
THE TERRACE I SAW IN MY SPIRIT THE BRUISED
HEEL OF JESUS. AND THEN THE NEXT FLASH
I SAW THE STAINED FEET OF WOMEN STOMPING GRAPES
IN THE WINE PRESS. AND THE BRUISED HEEL OF
JESUS AND THE STOMPING OF THE FEET ON THE CRUSHING
OF THE GRAPES BROUGHT ME TO THE PASSOVER CUP, AND
HE SAID, THIS IS THE NEW TESTAMENT AND MY BLOOD. AND SUDDENLY I RECOGNIZED
HIS AFFINITY TO THE GRAPE, THAT THE GRAPE
ITSELF WOULD TELL US THAT THE ONLY WAY TO EXTRACT
THE MOST VALUABLE PART OF THE GRAPE IS FOR IT TO
BE CRUSHED, AND THE ONLY WAY TO GET THE ESSENCE OF
CHRIST WAS FOR HIM TO BE CRUSHED, AND OUT OF
THAT CRUSHING COMES A REVELATION, THAT CRUSHING
IS NOT A DESTINATION. YOU DON'T GET
STUCK IN IT. IT'S TRANSPORTATION. IT'S TRANSPORTATION. [APPLAUSE] I DON'T KNOW ANYBODY WHO
EVER BECAME MAJOR IN ANY AREA OF LIFE, NOT JUST
CHURCH, ANY AREA OF LIFE WHO WAS NOT PROPELLED BY
THE FORCE OF SOME LEVEL OF CRUSHING, SOMETHING
COULD HAVE KILLED YOU AND SHOULD HAVE KILLED YOU
BECAME THE CATALYST AND THE URGENCY THROUGH WHICH
YOU EVOLVED INTO THE HIGHEST EXPRESSION OF
WHO YOU WERE MEANT TO BE. - CAN I READ YOU
WHAT YOU SAID? - SURE. [LAUGHTER] - IT'S GOING TO SOUND
BETTER WHEN YOU READ IT. - LISTEN TO THIS. IT'S FROM THE BOOK
CRUSHING THAT RELEASES THIS SPRING. CRUSHING PLACES REVEALED
THERE IS MORE TO OUR LIVES THAN WE
HAD PLANNED. THE TRULY INVALUABLE,
MARVELOUS AND ETERNAL ASPECTS OF OUR IDENTITY
AND ULTIMATE DESTINY ARE DISPLAYED IN US THERE. IT IS IN THE MIDST OF
PAINFUL CRUSHING THAT WE REALIZE THAT THE BLESSING
FOUND IN THE PRODUCTION OF FRUIT IN OUR LIVES WAS
NEVER THE MASTER'S END GOAL. OUR LATEST CROP OF FRUIT
WAS MERELY PART OF AN ONGOING GREATER PROCESS. - YES, SIR. - WHAT YOU HELP ME DO, I
THINK ALL OF US, IS YOUR HELPING ME INTERPRET THE
TOUGH TIMES OF MY LIFE, RIGHT. - UH-HUH. - YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT
THERE IS A PLAN, THAT THERE IS A PURPOSE, AND
THAT I'LL GET THROUGH THEM. - ABSOLUTELY. - I'LL BE BETTER ON
THE OTHER SIDE OF THEM. AM I -- - YES, SIR. YOU'RE HITTING
IT EXACTLY RIGHT. AND I'M TELLING YOU THAT
THE GREATEST PART OF YOU IS STILL SOMEWHERE DOWN
INSIDE OF YOU AND ONLY PRESSURE WILL GET IT OUT. - ONLY PRESSURE. - YEAH, THAT YOU HAVE
NOT SEEN WHO YOU ARE IN THE PLEASANT MOMENTS WHEN
YOU SMELL THE BLOSSOMS ON THE VINE AND FEEL THE SUN
DRENCHED ON YOUR FACE, THAT YOU WERE RAISED NOT
TO BE FRUITFUL BUT TO BE CRUSHED. - OH, I WISH I COULD
HIGHLIGHT THAT SENTENCE. [LAUGHTER] - LISTEN TO THIS. OLD SILVER
TONGUE HIMSELF. - THE GRAPE IS ONE OF
THE FEW FRUITS THAT IS RAISED TO BE CRUSHED. - LOOK AT THAT. - YOU KNOW, WITH
CRUSHING IN MIND, CHRIST WAS BORN TO DIE. ANYTHING SHORT OF THAT
WOULD HAVE BEEN FAILURE. THAT'S WHY WHEN PETER
TRIED TO STOP THE CRUCIFIXION, HE CALLED HIM A
DEVIL AND SAID GET BEHIND ME, AND HE CALLED
JUDAS FRIEND BECAUSE HE UNDERSTOOD THAT HE WAS
RAISED LIKE THE GRAPE TO BE CRUSHED. AND SO THE BIBLE SAYS
THAT JESUS SET HIS FACE TO GO TO JERUSALEM, BUT
HE DID NOT REST HIS HEAD UNTIL IT WAS
ON THE CROSS. AND UNDERSTANDING THAT
FOR THIS PURPOSE CAME I INTO THE WORLD, AND NOT
THAT YOU LOVE SUFFERING. HE DESPISES SHAME. HE DESPISES SHAME, BUT
FOR THE JOY THAT WAS SET BEFORE HIM, SO HE LOOKED
BEYOND THE CRUSHING AND HE SAW THE WINE, YOU SEE. AND UNDERSTANDING THAT
WINE IS TAKING THE GRAPE INTO ITS MOST POWERFUL
EXPRESSION, AND IT IS PUTTING IT IN ITS MOST
ETERNAL FORM, AND LIFE CRUSHES US FROM TIME TO
TIME BECAUSE NOTHING ELSE WILL GET OUT OF YOU THE
HIDDEN TREASURE THAT WE HAVE LOCKED UP IN EARTHEN
VESSELS BUT TO BE CRUSHED. - AMEN. AMEN. ARE WE EVER
BEYOND CRUSHING? DO YOU EVER LIVE LONG
ENOUGH WHERE YOU CAN SAY OH GOOD, I'VE GOT ALL THE
CRUSHING BEHIND ME, IT'S JUST HARVEST FROM NOW ON? - YOU KNOW, THE FUNNY
THING ABOUT IT I THINK PERIODICALLY WHEREVER
THERE IS PURPOSE AND RESISTANCE TO THAT
PURPOSE PRESSURE RELEASES US FROM THAT RESISTANCE,
AND THE MORE THAT WE YIELD TO THE PROCESS -BUT
THE PROBLEM TODAY IS THAT WE DON'T PREACH PROCESS. WE PREACH PROMISES. SO WE HAVE RAISED A
GENERATION OF PEOPLE WHO SEE GOD IN PROMISES,
NOT PROCESS. SO YOU GO TO CHURCH ON
SUNDAY, AND YOU HEAR ABOUT THE
PROMISES OF GOD. YOU GO HOME TO THE
PROCESS, AND WHEN YOU ENCOUNTER THE PROCESS,
YOU SAY, WELL, GOD IS NOT IN THIS. AND I WOULD ARGUE THAT GOD
MORE IN THE PROCESS THAN HE IS IN THE PROMISE. [APPLAUSE] - IS EVERYBODY
TAKING NOTES? [LAUGHTER] YOU CAN SAY AMEN. - AMEN. [LAUGHTER] - HE'S IN THE PROCESS
MORE THAN THE PROMISE. THE PROMISES ONLY MAKE
SENSE BECAUSE OF THE PROCESS. - WHEN YOU PASS THROUGH
THE WATERS, I'LL BE WITH YOU. WHEN YOU GO THROUGH THE
FIRE, I'LL BE THERE. HIS PROMISE IS TO BE WITH
YOU IN THE PROCESS, AND THERE ARE THINGS THAT YOU
CANNOT LEARN ABOUT HIM UNTIL YOU ARE
IN THE PROCESS. THERE IS A REVELATION OF
HIS GLORY THAT ONLY COMES IN THE FRUSTRATION AND
THE DISRUPTION OF YOUR LIFE. HE SAID, I'M A PRESENT
HELP IN TROUBLE. IF YOU AVOID THE TROUBLE,
YOU'LL AVOID ME. THE LITERAL LANGUAGE, I
JEHOVAH SHAMMAH, I AM PRESENT IN TROUBLE. I AM REVEALED IN TROUBLE. I SHOW MYSELF STRONG
WHEN MEN FORSAKE ME. THEN THE LORD
WILL TAKE ME UP. SEE, SO IT WAS GOOD
FOR ME THAT I HAD BEEN AFFLICTED. HAD I NOT BEEN AFFLICTED,
I WOULD NEVER HAVE KNOWN THE GLORY OF GOD. SO ALL THROUGH THE BIBLE,
THE BIBLE -- THE VERY SYMBOL OF OUR FAITH IS A
CRUSHING PLACE, A CROSS, AN EMBLEM OF
SUFFERING AND SHAME. IT'S NOT A CROWN. - NO. - IT'S NOT A CROWN,
IT'S NOT A THRONE. IT'S A CROSS. WHO MAKES AN INVITATION
A CROSS BUT JESUS? YOU KNOW, YOU MAKE
AN INVITATION. YOU SAY, COME
GO TO HAWAII. LET'S GO TO SWITZERLAND. JESUS SAYS, COME ON,
LET'S GO TO THE CROSS. THAT'S A HARD INVITATION. TAKE UP YOUR CROSS
AND FOLLOW ME. COME ON, LET'S DIE. [LAUGHTER] YOU KNOW, WHO WANTS
TO GO DO THAT, OKAY? [APPLAUSE] THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN
FOLLOW THAT KIND OF REQUEST IS TO KNOW THAT
WHAT IS ON THE OTHER SIDE IS GREATER THAN ANYTHING
THAT WAS BEFORE IT, AND UNDERSTANDING THAT IS
WHAT THIS BOOK IS ALL ABOUT. LET ME JUST INTERJECT ONE
THING QUICKLY BECAUSE WE'VE TALKED ABOUT
GRAPHIC OVER CRUSHINGS, BUT I WANT TO WARN THE
AUDIENCE ABOUT INVISIBLE CRUSHINGS THAT COME FROM
FORCES THAT YOU CANNOT SEE LIKE STRESS AND
HEARTBREAK AND PAIN. NOBODY HAS TO BE SICK OR
LOCK YOU UP, OR YOU DON'T HAVE TO COME OUT OF
PRISON FOR YOU TO BE CRUSHED BY STRESS. SCIENCE TEACHES US THAT
THE SAME PART OF OUR BODY THAT REACTS TO PHYSICAL
PAIN, THE SAME SIGNAL GOES TO YOUR
BRAIN FROM EMOTIONAL PAIN. IT TURNS OUT THE SAME
STIMULI THROUGHOUT THE NEUROLOGICAL SYSTEM, WHEN
YOUR HEART IS BROKEN AS IF IT WOULD IF YOUR
LEG WAS BROKEN. - REALLY? - SO YOU DON'T
NECESSARILY HAVE TO INCUR PHYSICAL INJURY TO BE
CRUSHED BY EMOTIONAL STRESS, AND WE ARE LIVING
IN A TIME OF UNSEEN FORCES BEARING DOWN ON OUR
SOUL ON A DAILY BASIS. EVERYTHING IS
GOING SO FAST. TECHNOLOGY, SOCIAL MEDIA. WE'VE GOT EVERYBODY
SAYING EVERYTHING ABOUT EVERYTHING ALL OF THE
TIME, AND THE WHIRLWIND THAT WE'RE IN RIGHT
NOW IS THE WINE PRESS. THE WHIRLWIND, THE MAD
SPINNING OF OUR LIVES CAUSES THE -- THE
CENTRIFUGAL FORCE OF BEING SPUN AROUND CAUSES
PRESSURE ALL BY ITSELF, AND IN THAT FAST PACE
THAT WE LIVE IN, THERE'S A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF
INVISIBLE PRESSURE, AND THE STRANGE THING ABOUT
IT IS YOU FEEL THE PAIN, YOU SENSE THE PRESSURE,
AND YOU CAN'T SEE THE SOURCE. SO ALL OF THE SUDDEN,
YOU'RE GETTING THE IMPACT AS IF THERE WERE
ASSAILANT, BUT THERE'S NO ASSAILANT THAT
YOU CAN SEE. - CAN'T LASH OUT. - AND GOD SAYS, YOU CAN
EITHER SEE IT AS THE WINE PRESS, OR YOU CAN SEE IT
AS THE POTTER'S WHEEL, BUT THE MORE IT SPINS,
THE MORE HE TOUCHES IT, AND THE MORE IT CHANGES
IN THE SPINNING. AND IF YOU ARE NOT
PREPARED FOR DISRUPTION, THEN YOU'RE NOT PREPARED
FOR RESURRECTION. - NOT PREPARED FOR
DISRUPTION, YOU'RE NOT PREPARED FOR
RESURRECTION. WHAT I HEAR YOU SAYING TO
US IS DON'T TRY TO ESCAPE YOUR TROUBLES, BUT
LEAN INTO THEM. - LEAN INTO THEM.
- LEAN INTO THEM. - LEAN INTO THEM. - AND SAY, GOD, WHAT
ARE YOU TELLING ME? WHAT ARE YOU TEACHING ME? CONSIDER IT ALL
JOY, MY BRETHREN. - YES, SIR. - WHEN YOU FACE VARIOUS
TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS. - YES, AND
I'LL BE HONEST. THAT'S NOT THE --
SOMEBODY SAID, THAT'S NOT EASY TO DO. IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT
YOU DO FROM THE PLACE OF YOUR EMOTIONS. IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU
DO FROM THE PLACE OF YOUR TEACHING. I WENT THROUGH A PERIOD
IN MY LIFE WHERE HE WAS JUST BEING CRUSHED. MY HEART WAS
BROKEN. I WAS WORRIED. IT WAS ONE OF THE MOST
DISTRAUGHT MOMENTS IN MY LIFE, AND I WAS LITERALLY
CRYING WHEN I TOLD GOD THIS. I SAID, LORD,
I HATE THIS. I ABSOLUTELY HATE THIS. BUT I LOVE YOU, AND I
KNOW YOU WOULD NOT ALLOW ME TO GO THROUGH THIS IF
IT WERE NOT FOR MY GOOD. AND THOUGH TEARS ARE
RUNNING DOWN MY FACE, AND I CANNOT SEE MY WAY OUT,
IF YOU SUFFERED ME TO BE BRUISED, IT'S ONLY
TO MAKE ME BETTER. AND SO TRUST YOU WHEN I
CAN'T TRACE YOU BECAUSE HE THAT HAVE BEGAN A
GOOD WORK IN ME -- - WILL BRING IT
TO COMPLETION. - SHALL BRING
IT TO COMPLETION. YOU CANNOT CONVINCE ME. [APPLAUSE] YOU CANNOT CONVINCE ME
THAT HE'S NOT FOR ME. AND WHATEVER HE ORDERED
ME TO FACE, WHEN IT'S ALL OVER, IT HAS GOT TO END
FOR ME BECAUSE I AM -- THE RELATIONSHIP THAT I
AM THE MOST SECURE OF IS HIM, AND THE REASON I
AM SO SECURE IS THERE'S NOTHING ABOUT ME THAT
HE HAS NOT CONSIDERED. - START TO FINISH. - FROM START TO FINISH. ALL THINGS ARE NAKED
BEFORE HIM WITH WHOM WE HAVE TO DO. I COULD DISAPPOINT MY
WIFE OR DISAPPOINT MY CHURCH OR DISAPPOINT
MY MOTHER. THEY COULD FIND OUT
SOMETHING ABOUT ME OR CHANGE THEIR
MIND ABOUT ME. GOD COULD NEVER FIND
OUT ANYTHING ABOUT ME. - HE CANNOT
BE SURPRISED. - YEAH, HE CANNOT
BE SURPRISED. THERE'S NOTHING ABOUT ME
THAT HE DOESN'T ALREADY KNOW. HE'S ALREADY MADE UP
HIS MIND ABOUT ME. - HE HAS RENDERED
HIS VERDICT. - HE HAS RENDERED HIS
VERDICT, AND THERE IS THEREFORE NOW NO
CONDEMNATION. - NO CONDEMNATION. - YEAH, SO WHATEVER HE
ORDERSED FOR ME TO GO THROUGH IN PROCESS --
YEA, THOUGH YOU WALK THROUGH THE VALLEY OF
THE SHADOW OF DEATH, YOU SHALL FEAR NO EVIL
FOR THOU ART WITH ME. THY ROD AND THY STAFF,
THEY COMFORT ME. THOU PREPAREST A TABLE
BEFORE ME IN THE PRESENCE OF MINE ENEMIES. THOU ANOINTED
MY HEAD WITH. MY CUP, MY CUP
RUNNETH OVER. YOU CAN'T HAVE THE
RUNOVER IF YOU DON'T GO THROUGH THE VALLEY OF
THE SHADOW OF DEATH. AND LISTEN TO HOPE
SCREAMING IN THE EARS IN THE DARKEST MOMENTS
OF HIS LIFE. SURELY, NOT MAYBE, NOT
HOPEFULLY, BUT SURELY. - SURELY. - GOODNESS AND MERCY. - SHALL FOLLOW. - SHALL FOLLOW ME ALL
THE DAYS OF MY LIFE. AND WHEN IT'S ALL OVER,
I'M GOING TO DWELL IN THE HOUSE OF THE
LORD FOREVER. [APPLAUSE] I LOVE THAT. - THAT'S GOOD,
THAT'S GOOD. - SO WHEN WE STAND
STAND, YOU AND I, OVER SHORT CASKETS AND SMALL
GRAVES AND CHILDREN BURNED IN FIRES, IT
ISN'T ALWAYS POSSIBLE TO EXPLAIN SUFFERING. IT ISN'T ALWAYS POSSIBLE
TO MAKE PEOPLE REJOICE IN THAT TYPE OF AGONY. I TEACH PEOPLE
JUST SURVIVE IT. - THAT'S WHAT
WE HAVE TO DO. - JUST SURVIVE IT. DON'T TRY TO
UNDERSTAND IT. - RIGHT, RIGHT. - JUST SURVIVE IT
BECAUSE IF YOU SURVIVE IT, ON THE OTHER SIDE OF
IT, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE SOMETHING THAT MAKES IT,
IN RETROSPECT, MAKE MORE SENSE THAN IT DOES TODAY. - IT DOES. - YEAH, YEAH. LOOKING BACK AT
THE REAR VIEW MIRROR, IT'S NOT THAT IT WAS EVER A
WONDERFUL THING TO GO THROUGH, BUT HAD MY
FATHER NOT DIED WHEN HE DID, I WOULDN'T
BE WHO I AM. HIS DEATH WAS THE BIRTH
OF MY MINISTRY, YOU SEE? AND THE SEEDS ALWAYS HINT
TO US THAT LIFE COMES OUT OF DEATH. AS THE OUTER ENCASEMENT
CORRODES IN THE GROUND, THE INNER LIFE BURSTS
FORTH, AND EVERYTHING THAT DIES IN YOU IS ONLY
SO THAT SOMETHING ELSE CAN BE BORN IN YOU. - YEAH, YEAH. IT OCCURRED TO ME ONCE
THAT THE REASON THAT GOD CAN -- THAT HE ALLOWS US,
HE PERMITS THESE SEASONS OF SUFFERINGS TO COME --
YOU REFER TO THIS IN YOUR BOOK, AS WELL -- AND
THAT IS JUST THE INTENSE BREVITY OF THIS LIFE. IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S
GOING TO LAST FOREVER. - RIGHT. WHEN I TURNED 60,
WHICH IS KIND OF A LONG TIME AGO NOW AS YOU
STOP AND THINK ABOUT IT -- [LAUGHTER] MY THREE DAUGHTERS AND
TWO SON-IN-LAWS CAME OVER FOR A PARTY, AND WHAT I
WANTED FROM THEM FOR ME BIRTHDAY WAS 20 MINUTES
OF UNDIVIDED ATTENTION. AND SO THEY
HAD TO LISTEN. GAVE THEM NO OPTION. AND I TOOK THIS ROPE,
BISHOP, THIS THICK ROPE THAT YOU USE TO
TIE UP BOATS. YOU KNOW, THOSE BIG
THINKING ROPES. I WENT DOWN TO A
STORE AND BOUGHT IT. AND I TOOK THE ROPE, AND
I TIED IT TO A PIECE OF FURNITURE, AND THEN I
OPENED THE PATIO DOOR, AND I THREW IT OVER THE
BALCONY AS IF THE ROPE WAS DISAPPEARING. AND I GAVE EACH OF
THEM A BLACK MARKER. AND I SAID, PRETEND
THAT THIS IS MY ETERNAL EXISTENCE, OKAY? THIS IS LUCADO'S
ETERNAL EXISTENCE. YOU CAN'T SEE IT. IT GOES ON FOR INFINITY,
AND I GAVE EACH ONE OF THEM A MARKER, AND I SAID
NOW, COULD YOU INDICATE MY EARTHLY LIFE
ON THIS ROPE? AND THEY'RE USED TO ME
DOING THESE ODD THINGS. - RIGHT, RIGHT. - AND THEN THEY
REALIZED, AND ONE OF THEM SAID, DAD, WE CAN'T MAKE
THE DOT TINY ENOUGH. IT CANNOT BE TINY ENOUGH. AND WE TALKED IN THAT LET
DEVOTIONAL ABOUT HOW THE APOSTLE PAUL TALKS ABOUT
THESE BRIEF AND MOMENTARY STRUGGLES. - YEAH.
- THEY DON'T SEEM LIKE IT WHEN WE'RE IN THE
MIDDLE OF IT. - NO, THEY DON'T AT ALL. - BUT OUR HEAVENLY
FATHER LOOKING ON US SAYS, YOU KNOW, LUCADO,
YOU CANNOT THROUGH TWO OR THREE YEARS OF HARDSHIP,
BECAUSE OF THE GOOD, BECAUSE OF THE GOOD IT'S
GOING TO GIVE THE KINGDOM AND YOUR CHARACTER. BUT THEN ALSO IT'S
NOT THAT LONG. - NO. - IT'S NOT THAT LONG. - NO, IT'S NOT THAT
LONG, AND YOU CANNOT ALLOW IT TO BE THAT LONG. - THAT'S RIGHT. - ONE OF THE THINGS I
TRY TO CONVEY IN THE BOOK, SOME PEOPLE
REFUSE TO GET WELL. [GIGGLING] THEY REFUSE RECOVERY. - THAT WAS THE QUESTION
OF THE JESUS AT THE POOL OF BETHESDA. DO YOU
WANT TO GET WELL? - DO YOU WANT
TO GET WELL? SOME PEOPLE REFUSE
RECOVERY BECAUSE THEY HAVE BUILT A SYSTEM
AROUND DYSFUNCTION. - YEAH. - AND DYSFUNCTION
BECOMES COMFORTABLE. I GOT MY CUP. I GOT MY COAT, AND I'M
PREPARED TO BE BLIND. - I GOT MY THREE
SQUARE MEALS A DAY. - YEAH, YEAH, SO I'M
GOING SIT BY THE SIDE OF THE ROAD AND SHAKE MY
CUP AND WEAR MY COAT. AND THEN JESUS COMES AND
DISRUPTS IT ALWAYS, AND THE CUP HAS TO FALL, AND
THE COAT HAS TO DROP THAT BLIND BARTIMAEUS
MAY BE HEALED. AND IT IS THE URGENCY
OF A FLEETING MOMENT. THE ESCAPE OUT OF PAIN
IS A FLEETING MOMENT. IT IS PASSING BY, AND IF
YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO COME OUT OF YOUR COAT AND
DROP YOUR CUP AND STEP INTO THAT MOMENT BLINDLY,
WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING IT, WITHOUT SOMEBODY
APOLOGIZING, WITHOUT SOMEBODY COMING BACK
AND MAKING IT RIGHT. THIS IS NOT ABOUT THEM. THIS IS ABOUT YOU. THIS IS ABOUT YOU. THIS IS ABOUT THE MOMENT
OF YOUR LIBERATION THAT WHEN YOU GET -- I NEVER
WILL FORGET WHEN, IN THE MIDDLE OF MY MOTHER'S
FUNERAL, ONE OF MY DEAR FRIENDS CAME DOWN, AND I
SAID, I WANT YOU TO BE PREPARED TO PREACH IT. SHE ALWAYS WANTED ME TO,
BUT I DON'T THINK I CAN. I SAID, BUT IF SOMETHING
HAPPENS IN THE SERVICE, AND A BREATH OF GRACE
BLOWS BY IN FACE, I'LL STEP INTO IT AND DO IT. AND IN THE MIDDLE OF MY
PAIN, THIS WINDOW OF GRACE OPENED UP AND GAVE
ME THE STRENGTH, AND I STOOD UP AND WALKED UP
THERE AND PREACHED MY MAMA'S FUNERAL. AND YOU KNOW, I FELT LIKE
A LITTLE BOY WHO HAD DONE A GOOD JOB ON HIS
EASTER SPEECH. [LAUGHTER] I WAS, NOW, THERE. BECAUSE THE GRACE TO
ESCAPE IS A FLEETING MOMENT, AND YOU HAVE TO
TAKE THAT GRACE RATHER THAN TO REFUSE TO RECOVER
ONLY BECAUSE YOU LANGUISH IN THE ATTENTION OF THE
MOURNERS WHO COME BY YOUR SIDE TO HELP YOU
STAY INCAPACITATED. BLIND BARTIMAEUS KNEW
THAT IF JESUS KEPT WALKING BY, HE WOULD
HAVE DIED BLIND. THAT WAS HIS LAST WALK
PAST THAT ROAD, AND IF HE DIDN'T GET IT RIGHT THEN,
HE WASN'T GOING TO GET IT. AND WHETHER IT COMES
THROUGH A SONG OR A FRIEND OR A MESSAGE, WHEN
HE CALLS YOU, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEART. YOU HAVE TO RECEIVE THAT
RIGHT THEN AND SAY, I'M COMING OUT, AND NOT FEEL
GUILTY THAT YOU CAME OUT, AND NOT FEEL ASHAMED THAT
YOU CAME OUT, AND NOT STAY IN FOR THE BENEFIT
OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BUILT THEIR LIVES
AROUND YOUR PAIN. BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE
WHO MAKE A JOB OF YOU BEING AFFLICTED. - IT'S WHERE THEY
GET THEIR IDENTITY. - THAT'S WHERE THEY GET
THEIR IDENTITY, AND THEY NEED TO BE NEEDED, SO
THEY NEED YOU TO STAY BROKEN. AND SO YOU HAVE TO HAVE
THE COURAGE TO GET BACK UP AGAIN. YOU HAVE THE
COURAGE TO RISE UP. THE THING ABOUT WINE
IS THAT IT SWELLS. - SAY THAT AGAIN. - THE THING ABOUT WINE
IS THAT IT SWELLS, AND THAT'S WHY YOU CAN'T PUT
NEW WINE IN OLD SKINS BECAUSE IT
SWELLS, YOU SEE? AND SO WHEN THAT MOMENT
TO ESCAPE COMES, YOU CAN'T BE ENCAPSULATEED
BY SOMETHING THAT IS INFLEXIBLE. AND SOMETIMES THE PEOPLE
WE BUILD AROUND US ARE OUR OLD SKINS WHO WON'T
GIVE US BREATHING ROOM TO SWELL. - TO CHANGE. - TO OUR CAPACITY. AND THEY LOVE
YOU AS LONG AS YOU STAY ON A CERTAIN LEVEL. - RIGHT, AS LONG AS
YOU FIT IN THEIR BOX. - THAT'S WHAT I'M
TALKING ABOUT, ABOUT CRUSHING CAUSING
YOU TO EXPAND. I'M BIGGER THROUGH
EVERYTHING I WENT THROUGH. I'M STRONGER THROUGH
EVERYTHING I WENT THROUGH. I'M TOUGHER THROUGH
EVERYTHING I WENT THROUGH. EVERYTHING I SUFFERED IN
WEST VIRGINIA PREPARED ME FOR EVERYTHING I WOULD
GO THROUGH IN DALLAS. - WOW, THAT'S GOOD. - SO WHAT WAS PAINFUL IN
WEST VIRGINIA, I BECAME GRATEFUL FOR IN DALLAS
BECAUSE I THOUGHT, OH, THAT'S NOTHING, YOU KNOW?
I SAW THAT. THAT'S ELEMENTARY
STUFF RIGHT THERE. AND SO GOD LET'S MOSES
PRACTICE HIS MIRACLES IN PRIVATE BEFORE HE BRINGS
HIM BEFORE PHARAOH. AND SO GOD SETS US UP
IN SITUATIONS THAT ARE NON-THREATENING SO THAT
WE CAN PRACTICE SO THAT IN THE DAY OF
CONFRONTATION, WE HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE AT
HANDLING THIS MOMENT. - JOSEPH, JOSEPH. - WHAT'S BETTER
THAN THAT? - HE WAS TESTED
IN HIS AFFLICTION. - YES, SIR. - HE WAS TESTED
IN HIS AFFLICTION. - ABSOLUTELY. - AND DON'T YOU KNOW
THAT THE REASON THAT JOSEPH COULD BE STRONG IS
BECAUSE HE COULD LOOK AT HIS BROTHERS AND SEA,
WHAT YOU -- YOU INTENDED THIS FOR EVIL,
BUT GOD... - BUT GOD. - BUT GOD INTENDED
IT FOR GOOD. WHAT I SEE IN YOUR LIFE
THAT I ADMIRE SO MUCH IS THAT YOU HAVE KEPT THAT
"BUT GOD" IN THE MIDDLE OF YOUR STORY. - ABSOLUTELY. - A LOT OF PEOPLE
WANT TO GET IT OUT. YOU INTENDED EVIL FOR ME,
AND IT STOPS RIGHT THERE. - RIGHT, RIGHT. - THAT'S WHERE
THEIR STORY STOPS. - I THINK, I THINK --
YOU KNOW, I KNEW WE WERE GOING TO DO THIS. I THINK THAT'S WHY GOD
CHOSE HIM OF ALL THE BROTHERS. I THINK THAT'S WHY GOD
BLESSED HIM BECAUSE JOSEPH HAD THE CAPACITY
TO BLESS SOMEBODY WHO HAD HURT HIM. SEE, WHEN YOU START
TALKING ABOUT WINE, YOU HAVE TO TALK ABOUT
CAPACITY BECAUSE GROWTH IS THERE, AND JOSEPH
EXEMPLIFIED THE CAPACITY TO BE BIGGER THAN
HIS SITUATION. AND SO TO HIM WHOM
MUCH IS GIVEN, MUCH IS REQUIRED. AND I REALLY BELIEVE WITH
ALL OF MY HEART, WHEN YOU READ THROUGH THE STORY
OF JOSEPH, HIS GREATEST STRENGTH WAS HIS ABILITY
TO LOVE THOSE WHO HAD VICTIMIZEED HIM. - BECAUSE WHEN HE
SAW THEM, HE WEPT. REMEMBER, BEFORE HE
DISCLOSED, BEFORE THEY RECOGNIZED WHO HE WAS? HE HAD TO STEP
OUT AND WEEP. HIS HEART WAS SO TENDER. - THAT'S RIGHT, AND I
ACTUALLY THINK THAT WHEN HE SAID, YOU MEANT IT
FOR EVE, BUT GOD MADE IT GOOD, I THINK HE WAS
TRYING TO COMFORT THEM, NOT CHASTEN THEM. - I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT,
I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. - IT'S OKAY, IT'S
OKAY, IT'S OKAY. YOU MEANT IT FOR
EVIL, BUT I'M OKAY. GOD MADE IT GOOD. I STILL GOT THERE. YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU TAKE
YOUR STORY AWAY FROM THE PEOPLE WHO HURT YOU AND
DETERMINE IN YOUR HEART "WHATEVER YOU DID, IT'S
OKAY, I STILL GOT THERE," YOU WON'T HAVE ANY
REASON TO BE BITTER. - THERE YOU GO. - IN FACT -- [APPLAUSE] IT'S NOT JUST THAT I GOT
THERE IN SPITE OF YOU. IN MANY WAYS, I GOT
THERE BECAUSE OF YOU. - BECAUSE OF YOU,
BECAUSE OF YOU. - YEAH, BECAUSE OF YOU. - YOU DIDN'T KNOW IT,
BUT YOU WERE HELPING. - YOU WERE HELPING. - YOU WERE TEACHING ME. - YOU WERE HELPING ME,
YOU WERE TEACHING ME, YOU WERE TRAINING ME, YOU
WERE PREPARING ME, AND I HAVE THIS CAPACITY
BECAUSE YOU STRETCHED ME. - GOD GIVES US AN
ABILITY TO REINTERPRET OUR PAST, DOESN'T HE? RATHER THAN SEE OURSELVES
AS VICTIMS OF A DIFFICULT PAST, HE GIVES US THE
GRACE TO LOOK BACK AND SAY, OH, OKAY. OUR SOVEREIGN LORD WAS
AT WORK EVEN IN THAT. - EVEN IN THAT.
- EVEN IN THAT. - IF GOD SPARED
NOT HIS OWN SON. - BUT GAVE HIM
UP FOR US ALL. - BUT GAVE HIM UP FOR US
ALL, WHO AM I TO THINK THAT I AM ABOVE GOING
THROUGH ANYTHING, YOU KNOW? - WHY NOT ME? - JOB SAYS, THE LORD
KNOWS THE WAY THAT I TAKE, AND WHEN HE HAS
TRIED ME, I SHALL COME FORTH AS PURE GOLD. I MAY BE IN THE FIRE
RIGHT NOW [CHUCKLING] BUT I SHALL COME FORTH
AS PURE GOLD. AND I THINK THAT IF YOU
CAN KEEP THE PROMISE OF THE WINE WITH YOU WE'LL
YOU ARE BEING CRUSHED UNDER THE FEET, THAT THIS
IS NOT MY FINAL FORM, THAT THOUGH I STAIN THE
FEET OF THOSE WHO OPPRESS ME NOW, THIS IS NOT MY
FINAL FORM, THERE IS SOMETHING COMING OUT OF
ME THAT'S GREATER THAN WHAT IS HURTING ME, AND
WHAT IS COME OUT OF ME, YOU WILL NEVER
BE ABLE TO STOP. IF YOU CAN KEEP THAT
IN YOUR MIND, YOU WILL UNDERSTAND WHY CHRIST
CAME TO THE GARDEN OF GETHSEMANE TO PREPARE HIM
FOR THE CROSS, TO REMIND HIMSELF THAT CRUSHING IS
ALL THAT HE WAS GOING THROUGH, THAT THE
SECRETIONS OF WHAT WAS IN HIM WAS BETTER THAN THE
PRESSURES THAT OPPRESSED HIM. AND I'M HOPING TO WRITE
THIS BOOK TO SOMEBODY WHO HAS SOMETHING IN THEM
THAT THEY COULD NOT GET OUT ANY OTHER WAY, AND I
WANT THEM TO UNDERSTAND THAT PRESSURE TURNS TO
POWER WHEN GOD DOES THE PRESSING. - THAT'S RIGHT,
PRESSURE TURNS TO POWER. [APPLAUSE] WE ASSUME THAT PRESENCE
OF PAIN IS THE ABSENCE OF GOD. WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS
THAT PRESENCE OF PAIN CAN BE THE BEST WORK OF GOD. - ABSOLUTELY,
ABSOLUTELY. - BEST WORK OF GOD. - AND IF YOU -- MY
WISDOM IS MADE OUT OF MY MISTAKES. YOU ONLY BECOME AS SMART
AS YOU WERE A FOOL. - [CHUCKLING] I'M
PRETTY SMART THEN. - YOU KNOW, YOU THINK
ABOUT HOW YOU TRIED TO TELL YOUR CHILDREN,
YOU'RE ALWAYS TRYING TO TELL THEM WHAT NOT TO DO
BECAUSE I DON'T WANT YOU TO TAKE THE CLASS OVER. I ALREADY TOOK
THE CLASS FOR YOU. THAT DOESN'T WORK.
DON'T TRY THAT. GO THIS WAY, GO THAT WAY. AND YET, SOMETIMES, THEY
HAVE TO HAVE THEIR OWN EXPERIENCES TO HAVE THEIR
OWN RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD. BUT I THINK THAT THE WORD
IS BEING WRITTEN IN THE EXPERIENCE OF OUR LIVES
EVEN TODAY, THAT IN SOME WAYS WE ARE THE 67TH
BOOK, THAT WE ARE LIVING EPISTLES, AND THAT GOD
WRITING THROUGH THE SITUATIONS ON OR LIVES
BECAUSE WE ARE THE ONLY BIBLE SOME PEOPLE SEE. SO SOMETIMES MY TESTIMONY
ISN'T SO MUCH ABOUT WHAT I SAY, BUT YOU WATCHING
ME SURVIVE WHAT NOBODY ELSE WOULD HAVE BEEN
ABLE TO SURVIVE. [APPLAUSE] THEREBY, BY THIS I KNOW
THAT THE LORD IS WITH ME, FOR HE HAS NOT ALLOWED MY
ENEMIES TO TRIUMPH OVER ME. YEAH, YEAH. - THAT'S RIGHT. CAN I READ FROM
ONE OF MY FAVORITE AUTHORS. - GO AHEAD, GO AHEAD. [LAUGHTER] "IF YOUR LIFE IS SUDDENLY
UNSTABLE, AND YOU NOTICE AN INCREASE IN THE AMOUNT
OF MESS AND MANURE PLACED UPON YOU," THAT'S GREAT,
"PAY CLOSE ATTENTION. IT IS A SIGNAL FROM THE
LORD FOR YOU TO LOOK CAREFULLY FOR THE AREAS
WHERE YOUR GROWTH MAY HAVE STALLED. THE VINE DRESSER APPLIES
AN EXTRA AMOUNT OF DUNG TO A PLANT THAT
STUBBORNLY REFUSES TO GROW BECAUSE THE MESSES
OF LIFE SERVE AS THE VITAMINS REQUIRED FOR
HEALTHY FRUIT." - YES, SIR, YES, SIR,
YES, SIR. [APPLAUSE] - WELL, YOU USE
KIND LANGUAGE THERE. [LAUGHTER] BUT THAT DESCRIBES WHERE
SOME OF THE LISTENERS ARE. - GROWTH IS
SMELLY BUSINESS. GROWTH IS SMELLY
BUSINESS. - IT STINKS. - YEAH, GROWTH IS
SMELLY BUSINESS. BIRTH IS MESSY BUSINESS. I USED TO THAT I THAT
BABIES WERE BORN, AND THEY LOOKED LIKE
THE GERBER BABIES. IN THE OLD MOVIES WHEN
WE WERE GROWING UP, THE BABY, THEY JUST
PULL THE BABY OUT. IT LOOKED LIKE THE GERBER
BABY, BUT IN REAL LIFE, BIRTH IS A
MESSY BUSINESS. BIRTH IS A SMELLY
BUSINESS, AND BIRTH IS A PAINFUL BUSINESS, AND
BIRTH IS ABOUT PRESSURE AND PUSHING, AND THE
BABY IS BRUISED, AND THE MOTHER IS WEAK AND
WEARY BECAUSE LIFE IS VALUABLE. IT COSTS SOMETHING, AND
YOU CAN'T HAVE LIFE WITHOUT LABOR, YOU SEE? AND THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT
-- TO ME, WHAT MAKES IT VALUABLE IS THE BABY NOW
-- IN THE OLD DAYS, THEY WOULD SALT THE BABY TO
HEAL IT FROM THE BIRTHING PROCESS SO THAT THERE
IS A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF HEALING. ONE OF THE THINGS I
TALK ABOUT -- I'LL JUST MENTION IT REAL QUICKLY,
I KNOW OUR TIME IS ALMOST OVER -- IS THE
PAIN OF RECOVERY. THERE IS A PAIN ON THIS
SIDE OF SURGERY THAT'S DIFFERENT FROM THE PAIN
ON THAT SIDE OF SURGERY. JUST BECAUSE A SURGERY
WAS CORRECT AND EFFECTIVE DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE
PATIENT DOESN'T FEEL PAIN, THAT IT HURTS TO
RECOVER, THAT THERE IS A PAIN OF RECOVERY. AND JUST BECAUSE YOU FEEL
PAIN DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE NOT GETTING BETTER. - THAT'S TRUE, IN
FACT, THAT PAIN IS AN INDICATION YOU ARE
GETTING BETTER. - ABSOLUTELY, THAT'S
WHAT I'M SAYING TO YOU. - ANYBODY WHO'S TRIED
TO GET IN SHAPE, RIGHT? KNOWS THAT IT'S NO FUN. - LET'S NOT EVEN
TALK ABOUT THAT. OH, MY GOSH. - IT HURTS, IT HURTS. - IT HURTS BECAUSE YOU
ARE TEARING MUSCLE, AND AS THE MUSCLE TEARS, IT
EXPANDS, AND ANY TIME YOU'RE GOING SWELL,
IT HURTS TO GROW IN CAPACITY. SO PEOPLE WHO BECOME
THESE VOLUMOUS PEOPLE, IT COSTS THEM SOMETHING. - IT COSTS A LOT. - BE CAREFUL ABOUT
ENVYING THEM AND WANTING TO BE THEM, AND I'M GOING
TO BE YOU, AND I'M GOING TO BE THE NEXT YOU, AND
I'M GOING TO HAVE YOUR MANTLE. YOU CAN'T HAVE MY MANTLE
UNTIL YOU'VE WITHSTOOD MY MISERY. - THAT'S GOOD,
THAT'S GOOD. I DON'T WANT THAT MISERY. [LAUGHTER] WE ARE OUT OF TIME. - I KNOW. - OH, MY GOODNESS. I KNEW THIS
WOULD HAPPEN. I KNEW IT. WE'RE JUST WARMING UP. - YEAH, I KNOW, WE'RE
JUST GETTING STARTED. - WE'RE JUST WARMING UP. A WORD DO YOU HAVE FOR
SOMEBODY WHO IS RIGHT THERE IN THAT MESS? - I WANT TO SAY TO YOU
THAT IF ARE IN THAT CRUSHING, I HAVE BEEN
THERE PHYSICALLY, EMOTIONALLY, SPIRITUALLY,
FINANCIALLY, IN EVERY ASPECT OF MY LIFE. I WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND
SOMETHING, THAT WHETHER THE LORD SCOOPED DONE
INTO THE GROUND AND PULLS UP CLAY OR SET IT ON
A WHEEL AND STARTED SPINNING IT OR PUSHED IN
ON IT WITH PRESSURE AND STARTED SQUEEZING IT OR
SET IT ON A CURIO AFTER HE HAD FIRED IT, THAT
REGARDLESS OF WHATEVER STAGE IT WAS IN, IT
WAS ALL IN HIS HAND. [APPLAUSE] AND I WANT YOU TO KNOW
THAT WHATEVER STAGE YOU'RE IN RIGHT NOW, YOU
ARE STILL IN HIS HANDS. - AMEN, AMEN. - HE LOVES YOU. [APPLAUSE] HE CARES ABOUT YOU, AND
WHEN IT IS ALL OVER, HE WILL TAKE WHAT WAS
SEEMINGLY A CRUSHING MOMENT TO PRODUCE
SOMETHING IN YOU THAT IS SO [BREATHING IN]
DISTINGUISHED, SO FRESH, SO NEW THAT CHRIST SAID,
"I WILL NOT DRINK ANYMORE WINE UNTIL DRINK ANEW
WITH YOU IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD." SO I GOTTA BE
THERE BECAUSE HE TOLD ME, I'M SAVING THE NEXT
GLASS FOR US TOGETHER. IT'S GOING TO
BE ALL RIGHT. [APPLAUSE] - ON BEHALF OF THE TENS,
HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF US WHO HAVE LEARNED FROM
YOU ALL THESE MANY, MANY YEARS, GOD BLESS YOU. - GOD BLESS YOU.
- GOD BLESS YOUR FAMILY. - THANK YOU. - GOD BLESS YOUR FRUIT
AND YOUR BEST DAYS ARE AHEAD. - THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
- THANK YOU. [APPLAUSE]
