Talk About Exorcism at UIC

first of all I didn't realize needed to wear a costume so I apologize I just wore standard dress and I will be attentive to the time because I'm presuming by 8 o'clock everybody wants to be home to get their weekly installment from Fox TV of the show The Exorcist anybody watching The Exorcist few of your come on you can be you don't don't have to be ashamed it's not a we're not going to ostracize you or anything like that so a few people are watching the show yeah for you whew okay all right anybody watching Lucifer on Monday nights on see yeah we can we got some Lucifer folks all right okay well it's a cross-section of folks this is a this is I can stand in the next room and be heard this is kind of nice practically speaking I know we've got a small window of time to cover semesters worth of work to be honest I mean in just be realistic and let me begin by saying I'm not here to make a case for the the devil or whoever you want to call them Lucifer Satan Beelzebub Asmodeus there's tons of names more times than now I'll simply refer to him as the evil one because there's a variant translation of the Lord's Prayer most of us are familiar with the one end deliver us from evil period arm and amen but there's a variant translation that says and deliver us from the evil one and it's much more succinct and in a sense a much more realistic of what we're going to be talking about this evening and so again not here to make a case if you're Catholic the easiest is to go to the Catechism of the Catholic Church look up numbers 391 to 395 that in a nutshell is the church's understanding of the Catholic of the devil of the evil one of course I'm going to speak from the perspective of the Catholic of the Catholic Church because surprise I'm a priest so you would expect that I can't I mean and with no deference to other faith traditions different people delays getting louder different people different traditions have different understandings of the ancient battle of good and evil of how they deal with cosmic forces and all of those different kinds of things I'm coming at it from the perspective of the understanding of the Catholic Church I'm starting from the perspective or the understanding that the devil is in Catholic understanding part of the landscape and so I want to talk about the reality of that and so basically I want to try and do it in three movements over the course of the next hour the first would be just simply to know the tradition just a little bit about our Catholic tradition with regards to the understanding of who the evil one is second to know in a sense how he works how the evil one works in real time and then thirdly in a sense what's how do I respond how do I live it how do I live in light of something that is malevolent that is at work in human history and in people's lives in the real way but whatever I'm going to however I'm going to talk in whatever ways whatever descriptions I use I'm always going to bring you back to Christ that's always further for the Christian for the Catholic that has to be our Center that has to be our focus is Jesus Christ because if we are in relationship with the Christ we don't have anything to worry about when push comes to shove when God when Jesus when are when we're centered in the truth in the person of Jesus Christ it's not a get-out-of-jail-free card it doesn't mean that everything in my life is going to be perfect I'm going to be free from problems I'm going to be free from illness I'm going to be have all the money I need all the success I want all that kind of stuff I wish but that's just not reality but we live with our minds and our hearts focused on the eternal weave minds and hearts set on who God is so a couple of just in an effort to to speak a bit about the evil one in real time at least as far as tradition goes I made reference a few moments ago to the Catechism of the Catholic Church if you look at those numbers 391 to 395 it encapsulates in a sense of the origin of and how the evil one works and in 391 paragraph 3 91 it talks about our first parents Adam and Eve the sense of tradition going back to the Genesis story and we know that it started good but didn't end so good right I mean we found our parents are our first parents Adam and Eve in Paradise they were already living there they knew what life was in Paradise that's where God planted them so to speak after Cree after he created them in a perfect state of happiness but then at some point the serpent enters the picture and the blame game enters the picture as it always does and number 3 91 of the Catechism it talks about a seductive voice just another just a one of any number of buzzwords I'm going to use to in a sense say this is how evil works in a person's life it's a seductive voice what happens go on go on it's just a piece of fruit go on what what what's it gonna do go on eat it what die now you're not gonna die you're going to become like God story in Genesis you can read it yourself a seductive voice one of the faces of the reality of evil um scripture look at John's Gospel chapter 8 verse 44 nowhere in scripture is there a physical description of what the Evil One looks like but throughout scripture there are images and understandings and snippets of how the Evil One functions perhaps one of the best is John 8 verse 44 he's a murderer from the beginning well let's go back to Eden as a result of the eating of the fruit what happened what entered the world and yeah sin and then death he was a murderer from the beginning going back to Adam and Eve and far worse though than that on another level is that he is not just somebody that can kill the body as a result of that original fall the original sin we all die okay but for those who believe who believe that there is a spiritual component to us soul spirit which lives on if a person is enraptured in a relationship with the evil one it's not only a death of the physical it can be an eternal death to the spiritual so he's a murderer from the beginning then that verse goes on in in 8th John 8:44 it talks about that he's a liar and the father of lies powerful image practical description of what how he functions he's a liar there's no truth and so there's always the distortion that's going on there's always a distorted presence of distorted manifestation a distorted look that's John chapter 8 we look at our Holy Father Pope Francis people are befuddled from the time that he was elected Pope he would always make reference to the devil you know they've had in the poor media well the media is still trying to figure out what to do with Pope Francis but you know in a sense he's kind of growing on them and they're kind of getting us somewhat of a handle on him and then he does something else but he was always regularly and he still does he talks about the devil is he fixated on the devil not at all for him as part of our Catholic tradition the evil one's a player he's part of the landscape nothing new this is as old as time nothing I'm telling you tonight should in any way be a surprise because this is a reality that's been going on since what day two day three yeah this is this is an old story dress it up put different faces on it however you want to do it but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's still a duck and so this this ancient animosity if you will is this ancient struggle and so Pope Francis regularly talks about the evil one in the devil and he's just part of the landscape he's part of life do we get fixated do we get overwhelmed do we get overcome by at all though because we've got Jesus Christ we always begin and end with Jesus Christ this morning when we got up at least my understanding is that God was in charge when we put our heads on her pillow tonight after this wild raucous Halloween party that's going to be happening tonight here God's still going to be in charge right if he's not then he's not God if there is something else that has sway over that then God is not God the evil one's a player he's a creature he has a beginning there is only one God he created out of love God created he created world of spirits first and we like them were given free will to choose some of the Angels chose not chose not to serve because they didn't like the plan and so the break the breach what happened on earth happened in the reality of a free will of innocence disobedience within creation all part of the tradition another image practical kind of image in the sense of how the evil one works on November 15th 1972 most of you probably weren't even born right how many of you were born after 1972 oh my god I am getting old they're getting older anyway on for a series of Wednesday's blessings no blessed blessed Paul the sixth was doing what Pope's usually do on Wednesdays oftentimes they give a Wednesday audience and so they have a gathering st. Peter's Square er the audience hall and they give a presentation on something some theme so late octo I mean late September throughout October early November blessed Paul the sixth was parsing the Lord's Prayer and each week he would take just a segment first week our Father second week who art in heaven so forth and so forth and so on he finally comes to November 15 1972 and he gets to the phrase and deliver us from evil allow me just two little excerpts from that Wednesday audience he begins by saying what are the church's greatest needs at the present time November 15 1972 don't be surprised at our answer and don't write it off as simplistic or even superstitious one of the church's greatest needs is to be defended against the evil we called the devil he goes on to say we become we come face to face with the sin which is a perversion of human freedom somehow we always have it in our minds that you know I can sin I'm going to go we have free will we can do any bloody thing we want to and that somehow that's a freeing thing you know I'm going to go out and I'm going to do whatever I want wherever I want whenever I want with whomever I want because I'm free I can do that even if it's sinful and who cares I mean it's it makes me free the reality is sin is not a freeing action it's a binding action it's constrictive it takes life from us in the sense spiritually speaking because it breaks down our relationship with God and that's a word you're going to hear me by the time we get done talk or I get done talking tonight I'm going to say the word relationship and you're going to twitch just like one of Pavlov's dogs or maybe start salivating use use that image again and again and again of a relationship because when push comes to shove we're either in relationship with God higher power whatever however you want to describe that or were in relationship with something else and we'll spend some time talking about things other things that we have the potential of being in relationship with so Paul the sixth is talking about sin about a perversion of human freedom but interestingly he goes on to say that and then sin in its turn becomes the occasion and the effect of an interference again just another image to keep in mind seductive voice interference those same kinds of things deception lie it's in a sense way of acting a way of being in in the world and in relationship with others and how things become distorted or corrupted and so that's what Paul the six is saying by an interference in us and in our world by a dark hostile agent the devil he says evil is not merely an absence of something but an active force a living spiritual being that is perverted and that perverts others and that's not our experience in the world today because that's what we've lost no one in their right mind is going to argue you say yeah evil exists yeah you know there's a revelation I mean look at what's happening in any per pick up art of the world you know any country the violence is taking place look at our city streets in Chicago look at the the weekly telly on Monday mornings of how many you know made it and how many didn't make it look at the violence that happens in families the violence the abuse so many different ways that people are used and abused this is not this is not a good or a healthier holy thing it's destructive because it it touches the integrity of the person the goodness of the person and tears them down yeah evil exists no one's going to argue and usually people respond by saying and somebody should do something about that you know somebody should fix that somebody else because what we've lost is Paul the sixes understanding that it's a personal reality it's a personal thing that we're affected by the darkness personally it's not just something this amorphous cloud you know kind of like any the cloud will resend all our technology to and stuff wherever the heck that is you know evils out there just kind of knocking around and knocking people over and you know and again something that somebody should do something about the reality is that evil as opposed to good it touches us confronts us be can can become a part of our life if we open the door to it and so that's in a sense the segue I want to take now in a sense of you're saying okay yeah I'm trying to you know for the most part most days I lead a pretty decent life you know for the for the person that's wanting to be in relationship for God with God what do you do just to keep you alive what are the things people do to be in relationship with God anybody pray what else go to church what else go to confession what else read the Bible what else see the sacraments fast do good works all kinds of things what's the hope end goal yeah for you however you want to say it heaven paradise union with God the good whatever the case may be but there are options as always because of free will to choose to open a doorway to something else key thing and a lot of people's misunderstandings is that somehow the evil one the devil can just kind of set a sites on somebody saying hey your look like a good guy I want to I'm going to attach myself to you I'm just going to take you over I'm going to possess you it doesn't work that way I don't mean to disappoint lots of people I don't you know in the sunset there're so many books written so much in the media so many movies it's not at least it's not been for my experience what I've seen there has to be an entree there has to be an opening the person has to open themselves up to the darkness they have to engage the only person that swings the door to me is me and the same is true for you so in a sense of what do we open ourselves up to do we open ourselves up to the divine to the good or are things going on in our lives or have they gone on in our lives where we open ourselves to other things I want to share briefly with you four of the probably most common doorways if you will and let me be clear in each of these it's not the presumption that oh okay I do this or I do that I open this doorway I'm going to be possessed by the devil no it's a condition for the possibility what happens when you open a door something can walk in right something can enter the door is closed take some effort the door is locked but sealed there's no easy entry but for the person who opens the doorway then something can develop and again please bear in mind that these are not guaranteed situations were in a sense the evil one is going to enter a person's life just my own experience the most common doorways that that possibly lead into some kind of relationship with the evil one with darkness the first and should be well the first two should be no surprise first as a pet is a habit of a pattern of sin so I mean in a sense of I'm doing something that is breaking down my relationship with God maybe I had a relationship with God once maybe it was pretty good maybe it was all very I mean in a sense was it was detailed was was it was profound wonderful kinds of things but then something entered the picture a particular pattern of sin and you know choose your favorite sin we all have them but you know how do we normally remedy that at least and again I can only speak for the Catholic tradition is for person who falls into a pattern of sin you respond you heal sin you heal the rupture of a relationship with God through the Sacrament of Penance buts venial sin through the reception of Holy Communion and that healing takes place but what happens if I make a conscious choice for the sin and not for God again there is the reality that a breakdown of relationship can take place with the divine and in a sense it can be a point of entry for the darkness the second is a cult directed cult a cult involvement and I mean it's no pun intended Legion in a sense of the ways that people engage the occult and you know in so many ways people think oh my god you know it's 2016 you know who goes to hee - you know in a sense have some kind of illness taken off them or who goes to a Brujo which are warlock to have a magic or a curse cast or who goes to a hood and dad or a healer a Sun tarot that is going to bring healing to my life and fix everything all those kinds of things and there's so many other forms each culture pick a country and you look at Africa you can look at throughout Mexico Central South America you can look at Haiti you can look at Eastern Europe each place has its own unique forms of magic of involvement sand healings all different kinds of things that don't have an origin and God you say well come on it's 2016 I mean we were educated this is a this is an institution of higher learning I mean who puts their belief or thought or desire in those kinds of things I hate to tell you a lot of people do and it happens right here in Chicago happens right here in this neighborhood I hate to tell ya I mean there's so many images so many stories they could share you know practically speaking eight months ago Chicago firefighter called me I knew the man just as simply as it seemed a good solid run-of-the-mill beer drinkin partying kind of you know guy and one Monday morning called me in a sure panic in fact he left a voicemail message for me before I even got to the office and I got to see I got to see I got to see you I got to see you and so I really finally was able to reach him and I said well you know today's kind of crazy maybe Tuesday or Wednesday I got to see you now I'll come at lunchtime I'll come at any moment and I could tell I mean it wasn't it wasn't just a whimsical kind of thing I mean he was scared so he was at the time he came we needed to share what had happened the Saturday before Saturday night south side of the city here called to a fire he's a fireman right and three flat the first floor was a storefront and then a second floor and third floor apartments people in the second and third floor were experienced smoke was coming up from somewhere I was about 10:30 at night so put on the gear put on the oxygen mask all that kind of stuff because you couldn't even see into the storefront broke broke through broke in covered the entire first floor nothing no sign of fire but lots and lots and lots of intense smoke foul-smelling smoke and so they go down basement he could only see against a wall just simply there was something because of the density of the smoke and that just something red emanating I mean in a sense of flame fire something and so he just started breaking it down he and another guy started breaking it down with their boots and then just hosing it down and stuff like that and um out finished out the door they went he didn't realize until he got outside that his boots were covered with blood and so long story short homicide was called they investigate when when the smoke clears so to speak a series of five clay pots which contained blood chicken bones animal entrails intestines and things in a human head the storefront was a Botanica and a Botanica in lots of hispanic circles is i mean in most places it's just a natural herb Yeti's oils basic kinds of health I made kind of a fur version of a health food store and that's what a lot of them are sell candles all kinds of things but there's some botanicals that have a back room or a downstairs room where all kinds of things are cast or worked people who believe in Satanism satanic ritual magic and the like and do all kinds of things and it's not a again I don't mean to do chakra scandal as anybody this is not an exceptional kind of thing in 2003 January I was just back from doctoral studies I was dutifully sitting in my desk at the office downtown in the Chancery and phone rings man on the other end of the line identified himself as a cold-case detective you know thinking okay I don't remember anything why I always tried to lead a pretty good life and to cold-case detectives from Toledo Ohio they were reopening homicide case from 1980 of a religious sister sister Margaret and Paul who was one of the sisters who staffed a Catholic Hospital in Toledo Ohio at some point on the Saturday before Easter in 1980 sister Margaret and Paul while she was decorating the the chapel there for Easter someone entered the chapel over took her took her into the sacristy of the chapel I mean the sacristy of the of the chapel strangled her to the point of unconsciousness because if you're gonna have a sacrifice the blood has to be flowing remember then took a sharp object folded the altar cloth that she was using to dress the altar with folded and a half placed it over the upper part of her body and then used that sharp object and stabbed an inverted cross 31 times into her upper the upper portion of her body so that the cross was inverted so the cross beam was towards the lower part of her chest the vertical beam was you know more of it was facing up towards your shoulder after the stabbing of 31 times the person pulled the blood signed her forehead with her own blood in a kind of mock anointing they hiked up her habit they lowered her foundation garments they penetrated her with something and all of this took place before the Blessed Sacrament satanic ritual it's been written about their stories about it and all that kind of stuff push comes to shove what prompted the call that I received in January in January of 2003 was in the summer of 2002 the cold-case detectives got this absolutely what they thought whacked out bizarre letter from a woman who they thought was nuts because she talked about child sacrifice she talked about a place out in the country the lower the basement of a barn where all kinds of unspeakable things were done as she spoke about local authorities police a doctor who was had a pediatrician who had access to an orphanage all kinds of things but interestingly in the course of that letter she mentioned two priests Roman Catholic priests by name one of whom was the chaplain of the Catholic Hospital in Toledo Ohio this is what prompted the opening of the cold case move the story forward 2006 father Gerald Robinson the Catholic priest chaplain of that Hospital was convicted of the satanic ritual murder of sister Margaret and Paul the man was completely sane he was tested I mean in a sense he was evaluated just sound as most of us probably and you know to add injury to endure insult to injury he had said her funeral Mass say how did that happen how did we get there it's an extreme case and I apologize for the for the graphic nature of it but that's just one case that's just a reality in a sense of how deceived how tricked how confused the mind can become here's a man who was standing with one foot at the altar offering one kind of sacrifice as a Catholic priest the sacrifice of the mass and he was in that sacristy of the chapel in that Hospital offering a very different kind of sacrifice and so you know again it's an extreme thing but there are so many different types of occult things that are very real and you look at the world in which we live the fixation the fascination just even in programming I mean in a sense I don't know how they could fit one more even evening program on you know be it with vampires zombies you know the walking whatever you know or para in paranormal shows ghost hunters all those different types of things in and of themselves individually I grew up watching that kind of stuff I mean as a kid I mean I was 13 years old when I went to see The Exorcist when it originally came out with those type I mean that was just part of I didn't think nothing of it but there's within our society a fixation of fascination with occult things and what happens to is when it becomes pervasive people lose the edge in a sense of the the side of it and I'm not an extremist by any way by any means in a sense because in all of these things you have to keep a healthy balance you know I mean in a sense again I go back to the same thing I started with I mean if a person is focused in the relationship with God it's a healthy relationship with God you've got nothing to worry about does that mean that against your not going to brush up against the darkness we all brush up against the darkness whether we realize it or not but we're if we're inclined to the good if we're if we're focused on the divine it just is that it's a brushing up against but if we intentionally open ourselves up first two examples your first two categories be it a pattern of sin be it the occult itself then things can happen because it's it's it's a direct invitation third category is two different items within it one is trauma the other is abuse let me differentiate trauma I happen upon something horrific some incredible event and in a negative way I mean in a sense a homicide a suicide I witness even it's a horrific accident something on the highway whatever the case may be something that truly traumatizes me that's the one category the other is abuse something that I experienced that's done to me and across the board physical abuse emotional abuse psychological abuse sexual abuse visit ever the case may be in either category the hope is that the person will get the healing intentionally cuz every time I bump this thing never mind the hope is that I'm going to move towards healing right you know in a sense supportive healing counseling therapy spiritual direction whatever I mean whatever in a sense to address and to heal the whole person but what happens if I don't again is this a guarantee that I'm going to be somehow demonically afflicted no but if I get caught in a whole world of negative emotions anger rage bitterness retaliation a whole list of kinds of things it happens within family structures because of things that happen within families you don't have to go down the street you don't have to go anywhere else you see the kind of spousal abuse different kinds of horrific things that happen within family structures and all there's a whole lot of kinds of other places where these things happen but if I get caught if I get a meshed in that whole realm of negative emotions and I live there again am I is is a guarantee that the the one's going to be knocking at my door no does it create a fertile seed bed yes it does because then since I become stuck I stopped living it's very much becomes a very downward spiral if healing if hope if restoration does not somehow begin it's a possibility the fourth and somewhat akin to the third is unforgiveness but it plays a big part in lots of people's lives the inability to forgive people get caught people get trapped in a whole range of things you know whatever something was done to them and again it can be horrific I'm not trying to in any way diminish it but it's what I do with the feelings what do I do with am I going to hold on because somehow it maybe as part of our human condition we become fascinated in times we can I mean to hold on to a grudge something that you know there's somehow this twisted sense a pleasure that maybe the day will come and I'll be able to get my pound of flesh I'll be able to to even the score I'll be able to whatever and you know the kicker is more times than not the person that was the offender the abuser whatever it was that in a sense we need to move beyond they don't even think about us that's the real kicker but the person that is in that stock space stops living silly little image but it works for me if you come down to my office at the at the Quigley Center walk around you would expect to see all the one things you'd expect for you know in a priests office working the Chancery and I got a image of the crucified on the wall we've got a lovely statue of the Blessed Mother other kinds of things around on my desk I've got a statue a figurine that stands about this big of Jacob Marley there were Jacob Marley Christmas Carol Jacob Marley was the was the precursor to the three ghosts of past present and future and there's Jacob little guy ed Jim Shore is the artist gives all kinds of great things and there's Jacob Marley standing there looking me in the face every day and he's got his little gray suit on he's got a towel tied around his head to keep his mouth shut as they did in death in the in those tie at that area in history but he's covered with chains chains bound all over and if you've seen any versions of if you read the book or if you're seen a the movies I mean he comes shackled in Chains and the three little words at the bottom of the statue link by link for me at least and again bear with me but it's it's my mirror on a daily basis I look at Jacob Marley and I think about all the crap that I can carry around with me from the past angers resentments rage grudges and on and on and on no one is holding a gun to my head saying Geoffrey you've got to keep those things alive you've got to drag them along with you they they are meant to make you miserable throughout your life you deserve to be miserable because you're just a miserable lout so forth and so no it's a choice I choose whether to seek and to move into healing or not and whatever it is whatever the healing that's needed do it to move beyond the unforgiveness to move beyond the stuck place it's a practical kind of thing because the evil one is practical in how he works very few people get the big bad yeah no I mean the movies you know I mean with with you know Linda Blair were doing the spider walk down the stairs and the swiveling head going around and cans of green pea soup everywhere um do those things happen some do but I'll tell you why those things happen two reasons the evil ones two favorite tools are fear and isolation fear he can do that he's a thug he really is the evil one is a thug what can you do if I can flicker the lights on and off if I can move that speaker that speaker moves from that corner over to there without no one moving it if all of a sudden their temperament the temperature gets down to thirty degrees in one spot so forth and so on things happen you know the TV's playing without it being plugged into the electrical side whatever the case may be what does that do it doesn't make you feel all warm and fuzzy doesn't that usually because what does it do it instills fear when a person is in a vexed a fearful place they're not centered it's the nature of the evil one the evil one wants to off-center us I'm focused on God I have got nothing to worry about does that mean that there's still not darkness around me in the world it is what it is but my orientation is clear fear disorients fear takes us off our center and undermines us first sphere second is isolation it's the nature of the evil one to break down relationships to break down see it happen you can see you can see it happen in families of all various levels within relationships all different types of things am i saying that every broken family is because of the result of the evil one no but does the evil one ply his tricks in a sense to isolate people absolutely to break down the relationships the supports the consolations the comforts in order to distract and to get us basically backed into a corner it's just the nature of how the evil one works so these are tangible kinds of things practical kinds of things because many people have the Hollywood version you know of all of these different types of things you know folks it will be home at 8 o'clock tonight watching The Exorcist you've got the young Exorcist that's learning from the older guy that you know it's kind of like the original movie The Exorcist in the same kind of image you know where they in this little Regan the girl is doing all these wacky things after playing with a Ouija board you know and they come and grab this crusty old Jesuit out of some archaeological dig somewhere in the Middle East and a parachute them you know into the middle of Georgetown you know to fix this problem and the poor old codger tips over and dies right at the bed bedside of the girl you know and the young priest has to solve the issues [Music] you know more times than not it's not that it's not that you know in a sense wacky if you will or that extreme it's much more of a personal kind of thing because it's about relationships again sorry if we keep coming back to that reality but that's what it is I'm going to name it for what it is because the majority of people I see they don't need an exorcist I would say 85% of the people I see don't need an exorcist they need a parish priest a spiritual director a counselor somebody in a sense to ground them has something gone in their life quite on something quite probably is going on in their life perhaps they've opened themselves up to the darkness but it's a matter of looking at the whole person The Exorcist is trained as a skeptic the presumption is that there is some natural organic explanation for what's going on is it a mental health issue schizophrenia bipolar disorder and so forth and so on what's going on in the person psyche is it a physical malady hypothalamus thyroid something different things can be going on within the physical body that can whack people out to make them do all kinds of bizarre things what if it's something else so it's always a matter of evaluating looking at the whole person presuming that there's a natural explanation something in nature something organic but then what happens if there is more you know very much now the the American model and it's spread to other parts of the world we've moved away from the model of you know kind of what you've seen so many of the old Exorcist movies kind of thing you know this kind of one guy you know the Lone Ranger riding in on the on the white horse kind of thing to solve all the problems because even if you look back at the ancient Rite of exorcism we're talking 1614 it's interesting that even there in the guidelines in the early part of the other directions so to speak that preface the the Rite of exorcism itself it talks about knowing what else is going on in the person's life one of the things they they mentioned specifically they use the word melancholia a type of depression natural explanations what's going on the person's life but you look at the whole person you know so I mean and I cannot tell you how many times you the standard call would be you know hello father you're not going to believe me when I tell you but I'm possessed by the devil fortunately they cannot see the cloud that appears before my head above my head which says you're right I don't believe you and with no disrespect but we don't go from 0 to 60 you know it's not like ok and you want to schedule your exorcism for next week Tuesday ok I can fit you in probably about 3:30 because again it's a matter of looking at the whole person what are they what is their condition physically psychologically what's your family history what have they opened themselves up to possibly in some kind of dark practice lots of different factors but I'm fortunately in so many of the programs so many of the shows so many of the things we see in the media but especially in Hollywood you know it doesn't is kind of like okay let me grab my bag and I'll be right out kind of thing but I mean so much of this and even in my comments they're geared towards you I mean there's a lot of things and I know you know I mean in a sense you could have done a lot of other things to kill time before in order before you get to the the Halloween party that's starting at whatever time 8 o'clock or whatever it is you're here for a reason and no doubt you know I didn't mean to help I didn't disappoint I always joke I think I should wear my fedora and my my top long top coat and black satchel look like Lancaster Merrin from the movie The Exorcist or something like that you know for me it's a matter of being practical being spiritually practical because there's so much bad information out there so much confusing distorted information out there in a sense of how this looks how these things happen do they happen absolutely have I encountered real cases of demonic possession yes are they rare yes the vast majority of people again that I you know in a sense that I see I mean they've opened themselves up to something so it becomes a matter of finding what is that something try to respond to anybody and everybody that comes to my door if it's a mental health issue that I try to refer them because they came to the church in good faith get them the help they need give them the support they need get them the care the counseling whatever they need what if it's something else what if it is spiritual well then let's work through it best majority of people that come have lost their way they're disoriented they're not on track so to speak with the divine something has touched their life something in a sense is corrupting their reality and that's usually when they seek help because the person that is genuinely demonically possessed doesn't come knocking at the priest store or the Exorcist store or wherever they may go knocking they're brought by someone else it's this large category of people somewhere between having opened the door to something and a relationship with the darkness developing they realize oh crap something is going on in my life something is out of kilter something is off balance or bizarre things may happen they may be experiencing various manifestations of things like temperature changing or things moving or all of those types of things again what does it take us back to fear and isolation same kinds of things what do we do look at the person oriented back of course all of this with their choice with their free will even the person that is if if they're genuinely possessed they still must consent because it can't work against a person's freewill always free will is the trump card in a relationship I can't do anything against your will spiritually because it will have no effect the power of the creature and his or her relationship with the Creator is completely unique so that's how it plays itself out in real time so I spent some time talking about doorways patterns and a direct occult activity whatever it is often I mean people say well you know and it's comical you know like the Ouija board does the fascination with the Ouija board I don't know if you know over the last year or so have you heard about charming Charlie or not sure that's the never mind that's that's the the jewelry store is that charming Charlie's tell her the mind is washed um the Charlie challenge or Charlie Charlie who's heard about Charlie Charlie challenge oh good okay so folks flow so well you know was I mean it went viral last year so essentially a person takes a piece of paper and divides it into quadrants yes in opposing corners go in the opposite corners they take a pencil and they spin it while asking you a question and calling upon their friend charlie the spirit charlie to get their answer I mean it's a very simplified version of a Ouija board most people say oh that's nice that's a bunch of kids play yeah and you should track the number of cases across this country where especially junior high kids all kinds of bizarre things were happening in homes in their lives and different kinds of things vast majority people I did it another made those who played with it nothing went wrong but again we go back to the simple fact of any time I open a doorway is that a guarantee that something's going to walk in no is it a possibility and the frequency with which I open that doorway is what's going to you know in a sense who creates the pattern creates the habit helps to develop a relationship so again I apologize too I mean I'm kind of speaking here in broad broad strokes so to speak but I mean just to get a sense of practical tangible kinds of things in how these realities are manned you know because then you know you say well then what differentiates you know I mean how does how does the church make the nation that someone is demonically possessed well again you first start basic practical intake bless you well being you know in a sense their history medical psychological all of those kinds of things done all of that they come up with no clear diagnosis medically psychologically speaking the person is there's nothing going on that can be determined or diagnosed but yet there's something more what is the more what does the more look like the churches used classically for criteria in that more category the first and you may have any of you watch any kind of movies and stuff like that usually they play about in one form or another the first is the knowledge of languages and when I say the knowledge of languages it's not you know like when any of us travel you know at least and I'm sorry I'm projecting when I travel and I go to a place that I don't know the language what I do I you know fun little phrase books you know she asked basically no questions you know like where's the bathroom and how do i order a beer things like that you just at least get me through to navigate the system this that's the what not what I'm talking about I'm talking about a person who instantaneously is conversant in a language that they do not know and when you see it happen it's quite something in a sense where I mean in a sense to be able to switch from languages and having people present as part of a team that's doing the evaluation and a person is conversant in languages that they are have no education or training in or do not even have the capacity for and yet modern foreign languages ancient languages it's quite an incredible thing second would be what we call a cult or secret knowledge in a sense of I walk into the room of somebody that's allegedly afflicted and they're able to reveal things about me that there's no way Google search doing calling the friends back home whatever the case may be that they would be able to ascertain this information and so in a sense also on a spiritual plane if God permits the demonic is also able to reveal unconfessed sin because sin is the domain of darkness when sin is confessed it's covered with the precious blood of Jesus it's it's removed but the evil one is he can't read our minds he's not God remember but he watches he observes he sees our habits he sees our practices he sees what we do so to speak so secret or hidden knowledge the third would be extraordinary strength I mean it's one thing for for Arnold Schwarzenegger you know to to you know benchpress 250 300 Paul whatever in his heyday kind of thing it's quite another for a 72 year old woman five foot six skeletal build that five men of robust size cannot keep seated in a chair we're talking extraordinary things and then finally the aversion to the sacred so that the person is not able to come in contact with the sacred is not able to enter into a sacred space or receive the sacraments and all of those kinds of things I mean these are in a sense help to make that further determination to say truly extraordinary things are going on now and some people say well why is the church so stringent so stingy and using you know the Rite of exorcism because it doesn't it's not in a sense it's all about the healing of the person but it doesn't want a sideshow I mean the same kind of thing I mean in a sense we help the person if it's needed the church makes that determination through all of these kinds of evaluations but it's it's all about the restoration and healing of the person so in fact that I mean that that's what score it's 7:30 right I got the good father Pat wave and so and actually I'm going to I mean I brought I kind of went through things so quickly there's a there's a handout a couple handouts that just will make sure you get them before you leave then and since cover two things I mean they do kind of the image when is about come temptation and it's not a how-to sheet it's basically walking you through some of the some of the basic things I talked about in a sense of the movement towards God the movement away from God some of the categories and as far as you know how temptation works how the evil one works and to keep a healthy balance and those are going to pass them out now and those are just simply for you to take along I hope they're somewhat useful or maybe help you to recall some of the things we talked about the second sheet is a best practices kind of thing and at least for I can only speak for the Catholics again in a Catholic tradition but I mean in other Christian traditions some of these things should resonate as well is in a sense for the person doing their best to live a life of grace doing their best to live a life in relationship and oriented towards God that's your armor that's your protection in a sense because you're in right relationship with God again the evil one he's not a creep he's not God he is a creature and so he's only like st. Agustin says the dogs on a leash he can only run so far but he's on a leash you know that means he's still be able to have a wide berth of running but he can't do anything and everything he wants to so just some perspective I'm supposed to take cue a do Q&A yes didn't think of that simple earlier but as someone who lived through it and and she has all this stuff you like unlike the Satanic annickap like that easily well I mean in a sense there are lots of layers you know be the whole satanic ritual abuse stuff and they were books written about that whole era you know in a sense we're at least at least then maybe make sure I'm going off on the right tangent if you will but I'm at least that's where I'm going into that direction in the sense of you know like they were talking about you know even daycare centers and all kinds of different places that there was all this bizarre kinds of things going on you know that kids are being offered to Satan and different kinds of things you've got the whole Anton LaVey piece and the Satanic Bible and the static rich all the different books and stuff and I mean it was an Arab but again - it was because especially in some of the things I talked about even like the case I referred to in the Gerald Robinson father Gerald Robinson case for some people it crosses a line which is just the unbelievable 'ti factor that my word they use it's so beyond comprehension that somebody would do these kinds of things and I think the reaction to that all was that I mean in the sense people just couldn't you know and so there was the extremes that it just simply in some ways some of it was bogus and some of it was real but just simply you know in a sense was quieted because they didn't know what to do with it in a sense of this the whole I mean who worship Satan you can go online and become a card-carrying member of the Church of Satan and there's various branches and there's two types of Satanism there's an atheistic Satanism and a theistic Satanism or personalistic atheistic depending on how you divide them and stuff like that but I mean people that believe tangibly I mean in a sense of you know they put the evil one st. lous for whatever you want to say on par with God is another God and believe as devoutly and practice as faithfully as you know as people who believe in Jesus Christ and go to Mass or go to church and read the Bible or whatever the case may be it's it's it's a whole discussion of that era but what it did was it sent so much of it underground and there's such a prevalence now more than ever but it's not stuff that makes the news in a sense there's there's you can go to parts of the city go up denials and so there's places regularly where there's animal sacrifice and find find remnants of these kinds of things happening very tangibly that people I mean in a sense our hook line and sinker involved and it's a tough as a big question and we'll fight on any of it but I hope are you talking about the person itself or the place I mean that's I mean in a sense the church has long had the tradition of blessing oh I'm sorry okay in the sense of when somebody has been involved in some kind of Darkness or has opened a doorway to something and I may not so much necessarily the person but then what about the place itself where these things took place I mean so you know and I say spend lots of time and have lots of priests that help at least within Catholic tradition of going and blessing things blessing places because in a sense that too can be remedied there's a whole discussion that can take place what we call infestations so in a sense of a place of an object of a region all of those different types of things and there's okay there's corresponding prayers that go with the healing or the restoration of those places so I mean there are remedies for that yes let me just first off say it's honor to finally meet you I actually read rude work oh no like here almost two years okay lien honor well thank you but uh I let me just practice I'm not a faithful person a spiritual person and we this this topic has always been of a huge interest to me I'm just curious what would you recommend for someone such as myself who's not faithful who's not religious but who wants to know more about kind of the practice to fight against the doctrines well I mean even st. Thomas Aquinas talks about what they call natural virtue natural goodness I mean so for the person that in a sense it doesn't even necessarily practice a particular faith but yet is trying to be genuinely good you know so in a sense that's I would need to pursue that that kind of path I mean because in a sense faith is a gift that's given to each person by God and different people have in a sense whether for whatever I don't know in a sense I'm not on the committee that doles out the portions of faith to different people but I mean it's it's a response that each of us I mean we in a sense we'd something each of us has to respond to whatever is our gift of faith but then to pursue it to expand it to seek it whatever it is whatever the tradition but I mean in a sense you can lead an entirely good life I think they're very very many good and holy people in a sense that have led naturally good lives practicing virtue being good to others living the golden rule so to speak that you know do not have a particular faith tradition so I mean you focus on the light you know I mean that's all I mean answer and I guess I keep using the example in a sense at least for you know for the Christian for the Catholic I mean you're focused on Christ well I mean since if in a sense if you're not a very insensitive Christian tradition you still you focus on what is the good what is the light what is the holy what lifts up as opposed to what tears down you know sorry I've been understanding that those processes of healing are very long um so as long as you're focusing on you know like it's like the light and trying to come from those things are you doing better you are you doing okay as far as the battle goes sure I mean and that's the hope I mean for anybody you know and again to remember again you know this is not a guarantee that something is going to happen but it certainly hopefully is a catalyst for people to be working towards healing because that's hopefully the goal for everyone because you mean and again it the tragedy that bad things happen to so many good people and maybe nine certainly not of their choosing so I mean how do they how do we help support them whatever the case may be however we can do that but so that the person is moving forward because there's always the danger when a person becomes entrenched and just and not just on a spiritual plane I mean that happens I mean it can be it can affect every aspect of their life and again we're always looking at the well-being and the healing of the whole person you know not just because we just can't you know reach I reach in and say well I'm just going to fix this part just the spiritual part and to heck with all the other parts yeah because all of them are interlaced we're the complex beings God is the one that's infinitely simple have you ever met Ed and Lorraine Warren and have you ever assisted or performed an exorcism and what was it like okay I I know Lorraine Warren I would I met her after ed had already died and said I know some people for the names ed and Lorraine Warren they're the ones a wonderful Catholic couple from the East Coast they were they were they were the ones that in a sense had the actual experiences that worked with the healing of what became known as The Amityville Horror or the Amityville house the conjuring movies those are about ed and Lorraine Warren Edie died a number of years ago Lorraine is in her 80s but is still involved in and it's just they have you know that opens another whole discussion or the whole category of people I mean each of us has unique gifts talents some have very specific spiritual gifts and this is nothing new you can read about it new Testament or even in the Old Testament but specifically in the New Testament different spiritual gifts I mean in the sense of of healing of being able to see things happen to be able to read a person's heart all of these type types of things we call charismatic our charisma 's charisms or charismatic gifts and clearly you know Lorraine is one of those people that God is blessed and she's gone into I mean they have I mean she could tell stories unbelievable things but they would always work with a team of people and Exorcist and the like so that's Ed Marine Warren I mean as far as exorcisms yeah I may have been part of them but I don't I mean I talk about general categories and stuff I don't so much talk about specific cases because it's all about the here in my estimation it's all about the healing of the person and in a sense it's not because even though I we spent this last 1 hour and 15 minutes or whatever talking about the devil I would much rather spend my life and my time talking about Jesus Christ and God than on the devil right now it's my life my part of my life part of my job that I have to focus on the darkness I'm trying to get everybody here to focus on the good on God on whatever that is in your life and not be focused on the darkness Haunted like yeah the classic way of training to be an exorcist is the apprenticeship model I mean there are different programs that I mean are available I mean in a sense because again - you know there's is it's developed in say the last 20 years a much more holistic approach in a sense I mean the training in not only you know Scripture and theology and all those types of things but then in you know with counseling psychology psychiatry all those different aspects because when you're dealing with the person you're dealing with the whole person and so in those in the programs that are developed as a program in Rome actually there's a program that takes place locally that they use Mundelein seminary for it's not based on a Mundelein they just simply use the buildings and classrooms there so I mean it's you know and it's a whole aspect of a whole formation of the of the person of the priest to be an exorcist butting in all those different categories everything from you know theology spirituality demonology angel all angelology all of those different types of things picking up in the second question with regards to what happens once you've made the determination I mean after going through the whole process of the evaluation of the person starting both first organically then moving into spiritually and if there's a determination that's made that person is I mean at least there's a belief that or proofs that the person is demonically afflicted the Rite of exorcism and I mean it's readily available you can look it up online at least the ancient version the the modern the revised right which the ancient rite was revised 1998 but the ancient right you can find online it's a series of prayers you know that's why I tell people to at least and again I can say this specifically to Catholics is that we have available to us at our fingertips things that are far more powerful than any exorcism we've got the sacraments the sacraments we believe come from the hand of Christ himself he founded a church he left for us the sacraments the Eucharist the anointing of the sick forgiveness of sins reconciliation all those kinds of things one good sacramental confession is more powerful than 100 exorcisms because look at what's taking place the sacrament is coming from the hand of Christ himself in the Sacrament of Penance the creature stands before the Creator through their meeting with and with the assistance of the priest confessor and says I need you I've sinned I've ruptured my relationship with you help me the evil one can't touch that because that's the creature calling out to his/her creator you know and so it's whereas the the sakharova whereas the Rite of exorcism is what we call a sacramental which comes through the Ministry of the church so it's not it's not I mean in a sense the sacraments come from the hand of Christ Himself the sacramentals come through the hand of the church from Christ and so again the powerful nature of the sacraments those kinds of things as we try to get people that's what brings true healing you know in a sense because the you look at the Rite of exorcism itself it's a series of prayers I mean it's as a litany of saints there's some readings from Scripture some Psalms and then a series of prayers commanding prayers first directed petitioning prayer to God and then a command to the evil one there always go in pairs first is asking God if you will to prepare the way praising God and asking God's assistance the the second the prayer the second prayer that is coupled with is the command to the darkness to the evil one but the prayers themselves in so many ways are quite simple but I mean it's not I mean so seldom is it ever that you know the poor the right is prayed one time through and everything is better because again go back to the image of a relationship it depends upon how deeply the relationship has developed even within demonic possession there is there are degrees it's not just I'm either possessed or I'm not possessed in a sense because even with in demonic possession there's such a thing as what they call perfect possession which is in a sense where the person has aligned his or her will so closely to the darkness that it becomes very difficult to differentiate anymore however the person's will is still theirs and we believe God's grace is always at work God doesn't stop loving God doesn't stop you know giving grace to help so at any point if the person desires turns and looks at God healing can take place that helps a little bit wait wait what's that okay way back on the sofa I always and then again I all I can do is go for my own experience and so for me it's a word of caution because if you it always in a sense the basic question to ask is who is the source of the power or who is supplying the knowledge if you are unable to trace that clearly back to the divine then someone else is supplying it you know so just a word of caution to be dis careful because in a sense we can open ourselves unwittingly and innocently enough you know and just simply I'm a can see the experiences that different people have had in a sense of using different types of things like tarot cards or you know different even types of spiritual meditation even healing postures and the like it's always I mean in a sense to be very careful to know what you're doing you know because I mean people I mean it's another in some ways maybe an extreme but I mean like you know like when all the Harry Potter books you know we're coming out and stuff like that I mean there were people that in a sense wanted to have a book burning you know and kind of what a pinpoint you'd say you know they're all either all bad they're all evil and kind of stuff but I mean in a sense for the person that has a spirituality about them is grounded in faith you pick it up you read the book and say that's nice and you put it down you know but I mean you know it does you as you as you look at study the books themselves you mean does the whole role of magic become more intense and you know other things I mean it within the series of writings of the of the collection if you will but in a sense a book can to be just a book too so in a sense so much rests with the person again keep the image of the web I'm the one in a sense opening and closing the door in my life spiritually and in every other way but I'm talking to Maine specifically spiritually what's coming and going what am i allowing in what am i lowing to stay so forth thank you thank you for your time tonight sir yeah [Music] when you need a private consultation stop talk to father Pat you

Channel: St. John Paul II Newman Center

Views: 35,531

Rating: 4.7858267 out of 5

Keywords: exorcist, exorcism, satan, demons, christ, newman center, college catholic, catholicism, halloween

Id: lPs8ExKc8fs

Length: 78min 35sec (4715 seconds)

Published: Mon Nov 28 2016