Fr. Vince Lampert - "Biblical Roots of Exorcism and Its Meaning for Ministry Today"

we were just had dinner with father Vince and he said if you give a talk on Jesus 20 people come out and if you give a talk on the devil 200 people come out yeah so here we are well welcome my name is jarred ortiz they teach catholic theology in the religion department and him the director of the st. benedict institute we're very pleased to be hosting tonight's talk by father Vince Lampert and we'd like to thank our co-sponsors campus ministries the religion department and the Center for ministry studies in the introduction to the Screwtape Letters CS Lewis says there are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devil's one is to disbelieve in their existence the other is to believe and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them as those people over there Lewis continues they themselves the devil's are equally pleased by both errors and hail a materialist or magician with the same delight and I have met people who fall into both camps there are those who think that Devils are outdated and we who are enlightened should not give them any credence well there are others who dabble in the occult or who carelessly accuse others of having demons but in the spirit of Lewis we want to offer a clear sober and biblical discussion of the power of evil so I were delighted that Father Vince Lampert could join us father Vince is a pastor at Saint Malakai Catholic Church in Brownsburg Indiana he is also the Exorcist for the Archdiocese of Indianapolis tonight he will speak on the biblical roots of exorcism and its meaning for ministry today please help me welcome father Vince Lampert it's always a great sign of faith when you clap for somebody before you hear them speak cuz you're not sure what's about to come out I want to thank all of you for coming out this evening when Jared Ortiz invited me to come up to Hope College I'm often asked to give different talks at different places but I thought coming to hold college particularly during this year would be a good thing to do because it's the 500th anniversary of the Reformation and I thought it would be a good opportunity for us to have a shared dialogue about the Ministry of exorcism and I believe that a good place to begin was to look at the biblical roots of exorcism in this ministry and then to talk a little bit about the ministerial approach to exorcism how its practiced today so after my presentation will certainly be an opportunity if you would like to ask any questions I would be happy to entertain those so belief in the existence and activity of evil spirits is a common religious fact within many different cultural traditions at the same time there are those who reject the notion of demons believing that the existence of evil spirits along with the likes of exorcism and demon possession come out of a primitive superstitious worldview as a relic from the time of Christ as a throwback to the Middle Ages for some people to even talk about demons is an embarrassment for these people evil is something of our own making oftentimes people will say that evil is nothing more than humanity's inhumane treatment of one another but the rejection in the existence of demons does not make them any less real or imaginary in fact the negation of the spiritual world is not a trait of the modern world with the Pharisees and the majority of the Jewish people of his day our Lord shared a conviction concerning the existence of spiritual creatures whereas the Sadducees rejected the belief in the existence of such things in the Christian tradition it is biblical revelation that consistently confirms the truth of the existence of evil spirits the chief of which is referred to as the devil or Satan the word devil comes from the Greek word diabolo swich means adversary slanderer a poser it occurs 33 times in the New Testament the word Satan comes from the Hebrew and means accuser it occurs 34 times in the New Testament another term used for Satan is Lucifer Satan is a morally wicked creature hostile to both humans in God this wicked creature is also named by his Maleficent activity he is branded as the evil one 12 times throughout the New Testament and the final plea and the Lord's Prayer is to be delivered from him he is also the enemy the adversary the one who sews weeds in the field as the enemy he is the Antichrist par excellence depending on the form his malice takes he is described as a liar and the father of all lies and a murderer from the beginning since his lying led humanity into sin and death and as much as he draws humans into evil the devil is the tempter or the seducer Satan is also referred to as the enormous dragon and the ancient serpent in the book of Revelation the original sin of the devil was the sin of pride st. Augustine writes that pride is the disordered love of my own excellence to the point of contempt for God st. Thomas Aquinas explains that it is impossible for a creature to cease being a creature so as to become equal to God in all respects Satan therefore wanted to be like God not by nature as an equal but by resemblance he wanted to be similar to God in as much as God by nature is an end unto himself therefore in the words of John of Saint Thomas the devil used his free will choosing to remain first in an inferior order rather than becoming one among others in a superior order we might have heard the old classic line that people attribute to Satan better to reign in Hell than to serve in heaven the book of Revelation declares that the dragons tell swept down a third of the stars out of heaven and cast them to the earth so Satan sin involves the sin of many angels we can say that his bad example influenced one-third of the angelic order who then submit to Satan as their chief Saint Thomas Aquinas goes on to say that these fallen angels become demons and the slaves of the one to whom they have surrendered namely Satan now after the fall the demons do not lose their angelic intellectual quality but their minds are now darkened depraved of the light of the wisdom that comes from God oftentimes people will ask the question is it possible for the devil or the demons to repent and the answer is no the free will of the demon stubbornly persists forever and evil which is to say that they are forever fixed in their bad choice they are incapable of repenting and their chastisement is eternal for demons redemption is no longer possible and why is this the case theologians suggest it is because God no longer offers them the grace that could per se convert them for them the hour of choice has passed God does this because he respects angelic nature unlike humans whose freewill can change an angel by virtue of his purely intellectual nature is situated from the start in the presence of all that he could know so when God created the angelic order they refute they received into use knowledge they didn't have to go to Hulk College to learn anything information was just placed in them you could say kind of like a computer being downloaded so these demons were able to see all the consequences of the choice that they would make even the fact that they would be banished from the presence of God for all eternity and yet even with that knowledge they still chose to rebel so they are fixed from the start totally and unchanging on the object of their choice a good example would be as long as iron has been heated in fire it's not level the blacksmith can give it one form or another but once it is solidified it can no longer change so aquinas goes on to say that it is the irrevocable character of their choice and not a defect in the infinite mercy of god that makes the fallen angel sin unforgivable when we read throughout the bible we know that the world that Jesus Christ came to redeem is saturated with demonic presence scripture gives many accounts about the reality of the devil and his painful influence on humans for example in Mark's Gospel there are thirteen references to a personified Satan or two casting out demons this includes four exorcisms performed by Jesus and four by his disciples we're told in the Acts of the Apostles chapter 10 verse 38 God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit in power in how he went about doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil because God was with him Jesus shared this power and authority with his disciples and every time he sent them out he gave them authority to drive out evil spirits and to heal every disease and sickness and we can see accounts of that both in Matthew's Gospel and in Luke's Gospel the church holds to the belief of the victory of Christ over the devil and demons but also the struggle that continues over the course of human history this struggle manifest itself in a very variety of ways that includes the affliction of people places and things we read in the book of Revelation chapter 12 verse 12 now the salvation and power of the kingdom of our God and the authority of our Christ have come for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down who accuses them night and day before God rejoice in O heaven and you that dwell therein but woe to you O and see for the devil has come down to you in great wrath because he knows that his time is short so Jesus described his mission as one of reconquest an enterprise to wrest humanity from our servitude to Satan and to restore all of us to our rightful relationship with God who is the end of all things we are told in Luke's Gospel 4:18 Jesus came to proclaim release to captives to set free all those who are oppressed so Jesus is the one stronger who overcomes the well strong-armed men in other words Satan and despoil 's his goods Jesus's mission I would say is one of exorcism it is a battle against unclean spirits that disfigure the image of God and as the Acts of the Apostles us he went about doing good and helping and healing those who were oppressed by the devil to consider only for a moment the Gospel of st. mark the first act of Christ's public ministry after his baptism and the calling of his first disciples was to expel the unclean spirit from a possessed man that's mark 1 verses 23 through 28 and the crowds marveled at what he had done because Jesus commands even the unclean spirits and they obey Him then Jesus was preaching in their synagogues and casting out demons mark 139 the unclean spirits when they see him they throw themselves down in his feet and they cry out you are the son of God so Jesus in his public ministry encounters demon after demon they are a reality and to this end he mercifully confers on his disciples the power to cast them out Luke 10:18 I saw Satan fall like lightning from the sky Jesus says this to his disciples went back from their mission they rejoiced because even the demons are subject to us in the Lord's name the actual coming of the kingdom of God in Jesus Christ is indeed inseparable from the fall of Satan in other words from the end of his dominion over humanity we can go on to say that with the New Testament the liberation of humanity from the control of Satan and humanity's transfer to the kingdom of God is a privileged expression of the work of salvation accomplished by Jesus Christ first john 3:8 this reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil so from now on each and every one of us has an intercessor in the person of Jesus Christ but we know that the victory is not one without combat Satan stubbornly insist on preventing the coming of the kingdom of God Satan tries in the desert from the very beginning of Jesus's public life to divert him from his mission we know that Jesus goes out into the desert where he prays and fast for forty days and then who appears on the scene Satan himself we know that Peter will do the same later and that's why Jesus says to him in Matthew 16:23 get behind me Satan you are not thinking as God does but as humans do Satan is the one who puts into the heart of Judas the plan to betray Jesus and we know that he even enters into Judas after tempting Jesus in the desert we are told that Satan departed from him until an opportune time Luke 4:13 and when does that opportune time come again it is at the crucifixion Jesus is being crucified the devil believes that this is now his moment of victory but his moment of perceived victory actually becomes the moment of his defeat because unwillingly he actually played into the plan of salvation that God had laid out so Satan thus conquered begins a battle with the church which is the seed of the kingdom of God Satan does everything that he can to oppose the growth of the church his desire would be to influence humanity to reject God as he has done Satan stirs up persecutions and dissension within the church we know that in 1st Thessalonians chapter 2 verse 18 that he obstructs Paul's missionary activity he claims Christ's disciples in order to sift them Luke 22:31 he strives through temptation to separate every believer from Christ to snatch the word from their heart lest the person believe and he's saved Luke 8:12 and so we are warned in first Peter 5 9 your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion seeking someone to devour resist him solid in your faith eventually all of this Maleficent activity we'll come to an end with the definitive banishment of Satan into the eternal fire Matthew 25:41 we can go to the book of Revelation chapter 20 verse 10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet were and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever until that day the Lord has given us the Ministry of exorcism to help those who have fallen under the influence of Satan in his dominions and this is there now where I want to talk a little bit about the Ministry of exorcism today and any time I will speak about exorcism I think it's important to define what is meant by the term because oftentimes people have a notion of what they believe it means based on their own research or perhaps shaped by going on the internet or watching certain movies who's been to see The Exorcist who likes to watch shows on paranormal activity and ghost hunting so there are many sources out there that can shape our definition always like to remind people that just because you read something on the internet does not make it true I hate to burst your bubble if that's a nuance for you much on the internet that has to do with exorcism is aimed at sensationalism it really focuses on the power of evil rather than challenging people to think about the power of God and the authority of Jesus Christ and the power found within his name so hopefully when all of you leave here this evening you won't go away with a greater fascination of evil but you'll go away with a greater fascination with the power of God even in this ministry that I have done and I was appointed to this back in 2005 by my local bishop in Indianapolis the most important thing I believe that an exorcist does is to help people who are troubled or afflicted by evil to once again see the face of God in their lives so it's not my goal to focus on evil but to help people again who are afflicted to have a genuine encounter of the presence of God in their lives I don't have any special powers or abilities whether you are a priest or a minister of some other Church it is Christ who works through us you could say that he is really the Exorcist and the one who is bringing relief into the lives of people who are suffering so the word exorcism comes from the Greek word x-ray cosmos and it is a term that signifies an insistent request manifested before God or directed against demons literally to exorcise means to bind with an oath at its very core exorcism is a prayer it is a prayer that brings healing and peace to those who are afflicted by the evil one allowing that person to be reconciled with God it is a ministry of compassion it is a ministry of charity it is a ministry that must be well done because it's not a hobby and it's not a game when God is being requested to expel a demon it is called a supplicating or minor exorcism prayers for deliverance would fall under this category when the demon or evil spirits are being addressed it is called an imperative or a major exorcism so again major exorcism the demons are being addressed a minor exorcism God is being addressed asked to intervene in the life of the person who is suffering the role the Exorcist is to investigate cases of alleged demonic activity and to make the determination if the prayers of exorcism need to be called into play even with this set it needs to be stated that the Exorcist should not be the person's first line of defense Exorcist should only see those who truly neither help many people who believe they need to see an exorcist can have the majority of their problems resolved by going to see their local priest or the local pastor of their church it's important to note even though on the Catholic priest the Catholic Church does not have a monopoly on the practice of exorcism it is a charism that's found within the entire Christian Church but it is the local pastor that should be the first contact and the pastor should use discernment listening to the person assessing where that person is that spiritually to pray with that person and to offer that person a blessing and if need be either to say some prayers of exorcism or to contact the person who has more skill or knowledge in that area exorcism I believe should always be seen within the wider scope of overall pastoral care it isn't just a matter of somebody who's afflicted with evil to come to see me for example for me to make their problem go away through this ministry that I've been asked to do but one has to invite Christ more fully into their life now demonic activity is classified under two main categories it can be ordinary or extraordinary ordinary demonic activity would be temptation something that all of us can struggle with on a daily basis extraordinary demonic activity is classified under four main categories I'll tell you what they are and then I'll comment briefly on them demonic infestation demonic vexation demonic obsession and then demonic possession so demonic infestation would have to do with the presence evil in a location associated with an object demonic vexation would be the action by the devil and demons aimed at attacking and harassing humans physically so vexation would be physical attacks this would include scrapes or bites or markings on a person's body the third type of extraordinary demonic activity is demonic obsession and these are mental attacks against a person whereby thoughts and evil are persistent in a person's mind and even though they try to push them aside they just keep coming back again and again so thoughts that evil constantly fill a person's mind and then we have demonic possession we're by the devil or some other demon will take control of a person's body treating that body as if it were its very own when somebody is demonically possessed the distinction should always be made between the demon once it manifests and that particular person as a human being the tradition of the church has maintained four criteria in evaluating the validity of cases of demonic possession these criteria include the ability to speak and understand languages otherwise unknown to the individual think about the intellectual quality again of the Angels when they were created they don't have to go and study Spanish or or any other language they can just speak in the second type would be exhibiting extraordinary strength beyond the normal capacity of the individual the third the third criteria elevated perception a person has knowledge about things that they shouldn't otherwise know and finally a strong resistance to anything of a divine nature such as being in a sacred space being in the presence of the Bible being shown a crucifix holy water and so on it's also possible to know that an evil spirit is present when symptoms of the demonic are observed and some of these we see throughout Scripture these include bodily contortions we know in mark 1:26 it says the evil shook the man violently a change in the voice there in mark 5:5 he would cry out and cut himself with stones three change in physical appearance such as foaming at the mouth eyes rolled in the back of the head anything of a animalistic nature unpleasant odors a change in the temperature of the room uncontrollable laughing hissing and the resemblance of the movement of a snake and even levitation all of these can be signs of demonic possession but before proceeding with the right the Catholic Church utilizes a seven step protocol an exorcist in many ways is trained to be a skeptic I should exhaust every other possible explanation for what is going on in the life of the person before labeling that person as possessed I personally believe that at the church were to label a person as possessed and that label present prevents the person from getting the true help that they need then the church would be doing greater harm again this is a Ministry of charity so the person has to hear what the truth is as opposed to what they might want to hear the first step of the protocol is for the person to have a thorough physical examination so the church wants to know is there a physical explanation for why this person is acting the way that they are so you would bring in medical doctors and other experts as needed the second step of the protocol would be a thorough psychological evaluation by a qualified clinical psychologist or a psychiatrist these experts are asked to to weigh in on a person's case basically saying whether or not there's something about this person's character that defies their own training and their own understanding because it is true that people who deal with mental health issues can also exhibit the same qualities that we see within people who are possessed so we know that people who are schizophrenic they can have audible outburst so again the church wants to be very very cautious before putting a label on someone and saying that they're dealing with the demonic the third step of the protocol would be to take a life history of the person identifying where the entry point of evil may have originated because identifying how evil entered into this person's life will allow the Exorcist to know how to close that door so to speak the fourth step of the protocol is to normalize the spiritual life of the person and this is usually the one thing that people don't like to hear from me oftentimes people who are afflicted by evil merely want the Exorcist to make their problems go away but they don't really want to have any skin in the game so to speak so if I say to them I can pray with you but you need to invite Jesus Christ more fully into your life because Christ is the one who will ultimately protect all of us from evil I also know the fact based on Luke's Gospel where it says that once the demon has been cast out it comes back finds the house swept clean in other words the void is now not filled with the presence of God and then the demon goes and finds seven other demons worse than itself and they come back and that person situation is worse than it was before that's in Luke 11 26 so it is important for the person to want to resume or to start for the very first time a relationship with Christ you'd be amazed the people that I talked to I probably receive about 20 calls and emails from throughout the United States and other parts of the world every week and when people tell me that they were afflicted by evil the very first thing I tell them to do you need to get to a local church in your area you need to have someone begin praying with you and you need to begin praying and they look at me like I'm or they respond like I'm crazy they're like no no what do you really want me to do and I jokingly always say that if I were to tell them to go and get a dead cat and go out at midnight on a full moon and swing the dead cat around their head they would look at me and go where do I get the cat we don't have to do anything extraordinary to repel the evil one from our lives it's the very ordinary things that we do that will keep the devil a day go to church pray those are the key and essential ingredients the fifth step of the protocol would be to look for those four extraordinary signs of demonic possession that I mentioned earlier speaking languages otherwise unknown superhuman strength elevated perception and then an aversion to anything of a sacred nature the sixth step because we live in the United States is just to make sure that things are done according to Hoyle because we all know that litigation is very popular in the United States so the church does want to make sure that all legal and canonical processes are followed and then once that's all clear the very final step is to compile the case together and then to make the decision to perform a major exorcism now genuine cases of demonic possession are rare they are real they do happen but not very frequently in the 12 years that I've done this ministry I've done three major exorcisms I've encountered people who I believe needed a major exorcism but who chose not to receive the prayers of the church again we all have free will and as I said earlier an exorcism cannot be prayed for someone against their will but most of the cases that I deal with not possession but most of them are vexation obsession and infestation dealing with those types there have been thousands of situations over the past twelve years I always like to tell people too that demonic possession is not contagious you don't have to go around and use hand sanitizer to to try to kill it and to keep it away if you watch Hollywood movies people are always afraid that a demon is going to jump out of one person and into another that cannot happen we should never give the devil more credit than he is due so that makes for a great Hollywood movie but a devil is not free to do that but one has to invite evil in either directly or indirectly and by doing so they can open themselves up to evil sometimes people engage in activities that they believe are fun and entertaining but in reality create a connection with evil spirits so if I have identified seven main ways that I believe a person can open a doorway to evil in their lives certainly there are countless ways but these are the seven dominant ways that I have seen over the past 12 years they're not in any particular order so ties to the occult the word occult comes from the Latin word occultists meaning hidden or secret and it focuses on knowledge of the paranormal it's associated with things like palm reading going to see a median playing with a Ouija board tarot cards psychics practice of witchcraft and magic all of these things are condemned because they are a form of ID Dola tree that violate the very first commandment that God gave us and what is the first commandment pop-quiz I am the Lord your God you shall not have strange gods before me so when people getting involved in the occult what they're basically saying is God is deficient God is not enough so I have to do these other things to fill that void in my life we can go to the book of Deuteronomy there in the Old Testament chapter 18 verses 10 through 12 where it says you must never practice black magic be a fortune-teller witch or sorcerer you must never cast spells ask ghosts or spirits for help or consult the dead whoever does these things is disgusting to the Lord in the Book of Leviticus 19 31 do not defile yourselves by turning to medians or to those who consult the spirits of the Dead people need to realize that the devil cannot be used by persons for our own benefit the devil will always use them so for example psychics and mediums do not have the power or ability that they claim to have it is the evil spirit working through them and either they are ignorant to that fact or they become compliant with that allowing the evil spirit to work through them because it gains them monetary gain or it gives them notoriety again knowing the future and things like that the only person who knows the future is God himself the devil does not even know the future only God knows the future and that people have a special charism to say that they can see what's going to happen I always listen carefully and to hear whether they say I have a gift I have ability or are they saying God has given me this ability God has given me this charism there's a big difference because when we use the word eye we're giving in to our ego and we're giving in to the sin of pride just like Satan himself another way that we can open up a doorway to evil is through mental manipulation or brainwashing so this happens when a person is targeted because they are in a state of need so they may be groups that target individuals trying to brainwash them making that person feel as if that group is the only group that they can trust they should no longer trust their family their friends or anyone else but only those who belong to that particular cult a third way that one can open up a doorway to evil is through a curse a curse is the opposite of a blessing if something is blessed its commended to God if something is cursed its commended to the devil now curses are only effective if we are weak in our faith we know in Psalm 91 we can put on the armor of God and if we're wearing the armor of God regardless of what somebody else is doing because we cannot control what another person does but as long as we know that we're standing right in the eyes of God somebody may wish us ill will but it will have no impact on us whatsoever a fourth way that one can open up a doorway to evil is by being dedicated to a demon that seems kind of far-fetched doesn't it being dedicated to a demon after I was appointed to be the Exorcist for the Archdiocese of Indianapolis I trained in Rome in the early part of 2006 were a priest there who is an exorcist allowed me to participate in 40 exorcisms that he performed during the time that I was there and again these were exorcisms that had to deal with infestation decks station of and possession they were not all cases of demonic possession but there was a young lady there who told me that her problems began because her mother had told her that when she became pregnant she didn't want her her mother even tried to abort her but then it wasn't successful she was born she said her mother told her as she grew older that she blamed God for giving her a child that she did not want so she believed that she would get even with God by dedicating her daughter to Satan so for the first 12 years of her life she went through all kinds of different satanic practices and rituals when she turned 12 she was able to run away from home she ended up on the streets of Rome and then she was there for six years when she was 18 she found the priest that I mentor with who began to pray the prayers of exorcism with her and then she was freed from all of that she actually went on to dedicate her life to God by becoming a religious sister so it is an indication that just because somebody is dealing with evil in their life doesn't mean that they're a bad person we have to remember that every person is created in the image and likeness of God and again as I said earlier we should always make the distinction between the presence of evil and the human person a fifth way that one can open up a doorway to evil is through a life of habitual sin it's whereby we lose the sense of sin things that are morally wrong we believe are morally right so we no longer live according to God's plan for us but we begin to write what we believe to be true even if those beliefs are contrary to what God teaches us in Sacred Scripture a sixth way that one can open up a doorway to evil is by actually inviting a demon into your life or cultivating relationships with demons one of the major exorcisms that I performed was on a woman who told me that she believed that someone she knew was possessed so she said to the person what's ever in you I freely invite to come in to me on this guided form of charity she said no sooner than the words came out of her mouth that she felt something come over her in working with that particular person there were seven demons that named themself in her and the one dominant demon told me it's name was the demon Leviathan mentioned in the book of Revelation and that during the prayers of the church when the demon would manifest the demon would say that it did not have to leave because it had been invited in and since it had been invited in it was trying to make a claim on the life of this person but the ritual of exorcism you could say commands the demon to return what it has stolen namely something which belongs to God namely each and every one of us the final way that I'll mention is through broken relationships we all know that there's so much brokenness in society today but it does seem to be important how we handle brokenness do we give in to anger bitterness resentment revenge or do we try to seek healing think for a moment of the story in Chapter five of Mark's Gospel it's the story of the garrison demoniac many of you might be familiar with the story so Jesus is passing through gadarene territory there's a man living in the tombs who's possessed by Legion shackles will not even hold him there's the example of superhuman strength again Jesus is walking by Jesus begins to rebuke the demons and then they ask to be sent into the swine where they go into the swine and then the swine race over the hillside where they drown in the lake most people stop listening to that biblical account but something very very important happens because the man who's now free from legion wants to follow Jesus down the road but what does Jesus say to him no go home to your family how often throughout the Bible do we hear Jesus tell someone don't follow me so there's something very significant taking place so go back to your family a man who had been living with the dead in the tombs is now being placed back into a rifle relationship with his family it is to believe that it was a brokenness within those family dynamics that brought about the presence of evil in the first place the devil loves division and dissension so it is important that we don't allow those things to get the best of us in the 26 years that I've been a priest here all kinds of accounts about people who haven't spoken to each other and so long because they're just angry and they've allowed that anger to get the best of them so if I make the determination that an entry point truly is valid then this is where the Rite of exorcism comes in demons have power they can only be defeated by power an exorcism is an encounter with a power that is greater than the demon and God is that power and exorcism is the method for calling upon God to come and bring salvation and relief into the life of this person who is suffering and with that said I would be happy to entertain any questions that you might have yes the devil can play on a person's memory and on their imagination so putting these thoughts and ideas in your head you could say that the devil will try to amplify those things to instill fear within you what's one of the classic lines that we hear throughout scripture be not afraid but what does the devil want to do he wants to instill fear so I think sometimes when we put these notions in our minds if you go out at night now how many people are going to go home tonight and if you're walking what was that was that a squirrel did somebody step on the stick so we we should not allow the devil to kind of get into our our heads so to speak yes to questions all right that would be an example she's asking a question about hypnotism somebody was doing it at a graduation party kind of as a fun or a game I think the danger in that is that that goes back to indirectly opening herself up to evil you think it's fun it's entertaining but maybe you don't have a full grasp because the person is hypnotizing you what do you really know about them we have no idea who they are and so there is that danger sometimes even mediums and psychics when you go to their office they might give you a false sense of security maybe you go in there and maybe the the Lord's Prayer is framed on the wall there might be a cross on the wall so you're thinking of this there's no no it's no harm here but all those could be used just to give you that false sense of security when you remember then you can ask me number two yes try to consult the souls of the dead so the example that I would give is in the Old Testament King Saul tries to conjure up the spirit of who Samuel and he goes to see the Witch of Endor and even Samuel says why have you disturbed me so it doesn't say that these things can't happen God just tells us not to do these things but even the Witch of Endor was surprised she was startled when it happened so it was almost like she didn't even believe it we don't consult the Saints from the Catholic tradition you ask Saints to be an inner story intercessory prayer but we're not conjuring up correct yes it is training yes it can because yeah you're doing with all kinds of craziness you could say I was telling the group that I met with before that went after one of the major exorcisms I did somebody asked me well what did you do afterwards did you like Oh pray for an hour what did you do and I said no I stopped the Dairy Queen on the way home it was a hot day I was hot tired sweaty that the chocolate shake hits a spot I will say it's important to have a good sense of humor in dealing with this because when you deal with people that are kind of on the fringes and afflicted and suffering it can consume you so having a good sense of humor is important there's a lady that works with me she screens all the calls that I get and tries to say you need to see these people these you don't and whatnot so I always tell people I call her my ex or assistant see a crazy sense of humor is good yes mm-hmm there's only one God we're back to the first commandment so anything contrary to the first commandment would be would be wrong ya know I would say that there may be people that have deified other entities that wasn't that they were those entities or gods but other people identified them as gods but I would say that scripture very clearly tells us there is only one God and where else in the okay I think that we are having this discussion beforehand - I think there's a in the in maybe like in the West Europe the United States people kind of doubt but you get into the South I was in South Africa earlier this year there are places that readily accept spiritual realities it's just a fact they don't question that perhaps in the Western world today we're more suspect and we think that you know isn't there a pill that can be taken to resolve that problem so I do think there's a difference on whether or not people readily accept spiritual realities or whether they discount them all together go away to the back yes well the the Catholic response to that and that's so when I know so the cathode response would be whether it's yoga or Reiki that one can open themselves up to evil through those practices because like Reiki for example people are calling upon some energy or power well what does that mean are you saying it's the holy spirit if it ain't the holy spirit then it's an unclean spirit the same way with the practice of yoga if people are cultivating practices that have to do with other forms of religious worship that are contrary to how we as Christians are called to worship then the notion is that we can't open ourselves up to evil I've had people tell me that I think what I've seen maybe churches that have Christian yoga or holy yoga where they're doing it just for the exercises and not because they're it's a form of religious expression so I think one just has to be kind of cautious because you might begin with the best of intentions but then maybe there's a slippery slope that you go down you might begin just for the exercises but then maybe you become intrigued by some of the religious expressions that have to go through that because even people will tell you that yoga some of the poses and postures are a form of ancient prayer to some of these deities the popularity of Harry Potter I think it does I think well Harry Potter I think has created a fascination with with magic and see magic means that I want to have a certain power control over you or over others now a lot of people have read Harry Potter a lot of people have seen the movies and all that so you can't tell people oh act like you didn't do that I think it's always important that people are going to watch certain movies or read certain books you should always filter it through your Christian faith so if you're a parent and your children are reading these books are watching the movies do you ever sit down and talk with them about why what they're reading or seen is consistent or inconsistent with our Catholic belief so I think you could actually use it as a teachable moment so rather than just saying avoided avoided avoided that's just going to create a more of a fascination with it so it might be better to embrace it to some extent and then use it as a teachable moment to help people to grow more deeply in their faith yes I get my request to give talks always increase around Halloween never so she's asking if when people leave tonight what's one thing you might take with you never put God in the devil on the same playing field never put God in the devil in the same playing field God is so much greater the devil is still a creature so never believed that somehow they're equal counterparts so the devil always wishes to portray himself as something more than he is the roaring lion trying to scare instill fear I tell people I like to watch the Animal Planet shows and when that when the lion is stalking its prey there's two types of prey it goes for the one that we think that one is the weakest and then if it goes after the strong what has a strong one done it's wondered off from the herd teaches us the importance of community and the important role that other people play in our lives because there's a growing trend today where people will say I don't need to go to church of any kind I'm just spiritual on my own but what these people are failing to recognize is the important presence of other people in our lives often remind people the Lord's Prayer does not begin My Father who art in heaven so when Jesus teaches his disciples how to pray our Father so community is extremely important and we shouldn't discount that it's important to note that demons don't live in a particular address so it's not like well they live in that house and it's haunted there's spiritual entities so they don't exist in time and space as we understand it that's why I always laugh when you watch these Ghost Center shows and they're going into a place that's haunted when in reality it's the very thing that they're doing in the house that's causing the evil to manifest so it's not like the demon lives it I don't know six-six-six Mockingbird Lane or whatever but it's what they're doing that's causing it and then people have a manifestation or does have a fascination there was an exorcism that was performed by a priest in Gary Indiana they got a lot of notoriety a few years ago and then the people that produced the movie the conjuring purchased the house or strange things were happening well what began to happen is that people were breaking into the house and doing seances and whatnot because they thought evil lived in the house but they didn't realize that the things that they were doing the seance and trying to conjure up the spirits of the Dead is what was causing the evil to manifest the producers finally had the house torn down just to to keep everybody away from it yes so she's asking the Kennedy Minh attach itself on to you so that would be cultivating that relationship so yeah that could happen so it's not like oh something Bad's happened in this house I think I'm moving because if it's connected with you then no matter where you're at it's going to be there so if we're sealed with the Holy Spirit in Baptism how can we use succumb to the demonic if we turn our backs on God and that's goes back to what I said earlier that exorcisms in the pagan world if you will so if people have never heard the good news of Jesus Christ and their deal with the demonic the exorcisms are one and done but in the apostate world it seems to be different so people who have heard the good news of Jesus Christ and then have decided to turn a deaf ear to it it does seem that evil spirits make a greater claim on these people because they knew the truth and then they said no thank you kind of reminds me of the judgment scene at the end of Matthew's Gospel where Jesus they separate the sheep from the goats and it says that the goats will get off with fewer stripes because they can they could almost feign ignorance but the Sheep can't once you know the truth you have to live it you can't why did I learn about that you can't do that so people that are still with the Holy Spirit I think it's if they turn their back on God yes so she's asking if you work in the mental health profession and you believe that someone that you work with or one of the patients if you will is dealing with a mnemonic what do you do with them how do you find them the help that they need I think you begin to sit down you pray with them see if their wanna pray cultivate a relationship with them and then to see if they're interested in finding true help because again if there's a pastoral presence if you know that they're afflicted and you're there for them and you create a relationship then you can be the one that might walk and journey with them to get the help they need so the question is she'd make in the comments some people say Jesus knew that he wasn't casting out demons but he was just playing up to the audience of the day who believed in these things but now that we have a better understanding to mental health issues why did we need this I think when we look at what Jesus when he sent his disciples out he clearly gave them the authority to cast out demons and to heal people of their ailments so Jesus makes a clear distinction between demon possession and health-related issues so if Christ makes a distinction then we should as well now I thought you're gonna ask the question is it always mental health is it always the demonic and boy that's that's that's such a complicated area that's why I believe that demonic obsession has to do with the mind is the most difficult form of Extraordinary demonic activity to deal with I think it's more difficult than the demon possession because is it always one or the other or did somebody have an encounter with the demonic did the mind fracture as a way to try to understand that that's why the church does want to rely on professionals in the mental health field to really weigh in because that's an area you want to tread very very cautiously because again could end up causing greater harm than good yes speaking in tongues glossolalia would be a gift from God and when somebody speaks in tongues there's always should be somebody around who has the gift of interpretation so it's the the language of the Holy Spirit so there is a difference between people speaking in tongues who have that charism in somebody that's because if somebody speaking in tongues and one is interpreting what you normally hear a person glorifying God if somebody is possessed I assure you whatever kind of other mouth is not glorifying God so that would be that would be the distinction yes my thoughts on CS Lewis I think it's a great book yes it's a great insight into this whole world but again you know when it comes to this whole topic tonight the most important thing that one can do going back to the comment back here if you've been baptized and anointed with the Holy Spirit that's where we should focus cuz if you really believe that something happened in your life when that occurred then you have nothing to worry about with evil whatsoever it's when people become bored with their relationship with God and think they want to need and they need more now sometimes young people and I'll speak again from the Catholic perspective will say well the Catholic Mass is boring it's the same old thing you stand you sit you know you know we don't know what we're doing here and I always say now what did you bring to it so if you go to a bank and you say I'm here to make a withdrawal and they said well you don't have an account here you got nothing to withdraw so whether you go to Catholic Mass or any other church service it should be the culmination of your relationship with Christ throughout the week if that hour in church is all you're giving God every week you probably are bored but again you can take something out if you haven't made a deposit yes you'll be next yes so that's encuesta there's hoping yourself can be through things like the Ouija board and whatnot but he's asking the question about drugs I know people who work in Drug Enforcement even along the border between the United States and Mexico and they will tell you that all of the drugs that in the United States go through satanic practices or cursed they go through some ritual process before they hit the street market in the United States so your answer would be yes the use of illicit drugs candy a way that people are opening themselves up to evil who's asking about the Warrens who work with the Catholic Church and in the ministry of exorcism I think there's always a danger that sometimes whether it's them or others you can begin with the best of intentions but maybe you go a bit too far I mean having relics in your house about past exorcisms and all that it's almost like you're glorifying that again we should be glorifying God and not focusing on so much on on the evil evil as a reality in the years I've done this I've known for I think I mentioned I don't do this group or beforehand for priests who've left the priesthood who were Exorcist because they just felt like they were up against so many attacks because the devil knows who's trying to defeat him which is why those who practice any form of exorcism whether it's a major exorcism or a minor exorcism needs to be spiritually strong and constantly striving to grow in holiness that's important because the devil will try to take you alive yes so she's asking the question if I do an exorcism how do I prepare myself so I will spend time in prayer fasting Jesus says that certain types of demons can only be cast out through prayer and fasting as a priest I celebrate Mass as a priest I would go to the sacrament of reconciliation I determine where an exorcism will be performed it's always in a sacred space so it's never in an abandoned house on a dead-end street during a thunderstorm you know thanks for a great Hollywood movie I determined who's going to be present exorcisms are never filmed people that are present are not there out of curiosity it's not a like a tour or anything like that it's not a show people are there to to be prayer warriors if you will so yeah and then the ritual begins by reading Sacred Scripture when I pray with somebody each session is no more than an hour just because of the number of calls and enquiries I get the woman that was possessed with the seven demons and Leviathan I met with her about every six to eight weeks over the course of one year but again that goes back to she was baptized and anointed with the Holy Spirit but then she invited the demons into her life so you could say that she kind of turned her back on that commitment to Christ that she made all right I guess my closing words are thanks for coming out don't go home and worry about things that go bump in the night I did these things don't keep me up at night I don't sleep with a nightlight on by perishing Brownsburg Indiana so st. malachy parish is eight miles west of Indianapolis at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway is eight miles away it's out in the country I'm surrounded by cornfields coyotes prowl through the night I can hear them out there but I take a walk every evening I have my Fitbit on so I walk seven mile I walked seven miles every day so but I don't worry about the darkness and there is no one else that lives around this church because it's all farmland so it's me and I do hear the cows across mooing every now and then so so don't be afraid of the devil just focus on the power of God because again we know that the power and the authority is in the name of Jesus Christ and if we're living under his name then we have nothing to fear whatsoever so on that note god bless all of you and have a good night you

Channel: Saint Benedict Institute

Views: 50,002

Keywords: Catholic, Exorcism, Angels, Demons, Devil, Possession, Healing, Mental Health, Wisdom

Id: ydk4bePo1T8

Length: 73min 41sec (4421 seconds)

Published: Tue Oct 03 2017