Symbolism in The Book of Genesis - With Matthieu Pageau

okay hello everybody so Matthew and I we are starting our second conversation further for our YouTube channel and we thought that this time we could talk about the the problem of self reference and also the the idea of how symbolism works as a series of embedded patterns one in in each other like a kind of fractal structure where the larger structure repeats itself in the in the smaller structure and how those two questions the question of self referentiality and the question of patterns embedding themselves as replicating themselves in embedded structures how they're related and and to be honest we're a bit we're a bit nervous to talk about this because the Col question of self reference and the question of things that refer to themselves is is the kind of subject which just when you try to talk about it and when you even when you try to think about it turns your brain into a kind of mush where all of a sudden you you can't see clearly because of the the problem of of something trying to look at itself but it's a really important aspect of symbolism and it's an important aspect of what's happening right now in the world because this this problem of self reference is popping up more and more even in science and and in culture and so so it's important to talk about it so maybe the first thing we can we can start with is the the first the the question of how we mentioned this in our last discussion a little bit the problem of science as it stands right now is that it approaches the world as if the theory with which is looking at the world is not part of the universe but it has to be part of the universe because I mean the universe is is is is everything and so the theory has to somehow be part of the universe but the question is how can it be at the same time part of the universe while being the thing that's looking at the universe trying to understand it and I think that consciousness really is the key to this you know and and I think that all the reason why like Jordan Peterson and even people like Sam Harris they're trying to talk about consciousness and sometimes they struggle to to fit all those things together there's an intuition that consciousness is the key because consciousness is you know is a self-referential phenomena it is the capacity that we have to to kind of in one way stand above ourselves and look at ourselves but at the same time this capacity to look at ourselves as part of ourselves as well and so so there's this there is it's as if the origin of consciousness is a self referential loop which then moves out into the world and then becomes a coherent a coherent let's say structure of representation but it starts in this in this necessarily self referential loop and that seems to be that's that self referential loop at the beginning of reason or at the beginning of logic and their beginning of a structured world seems to be the thing that that that science or that you know kind of skeptic type people want to avoid they want to avoid the the inevitability of that of that that problem of a self referential loop at the beginning of things yeah I would say this consciousness or I should say self-awareness or something like that maybe not just consciousness is when you begin to include yourself in your in your model of the universe so we make models of the universe that's what we do on a regular basis I would say you become a little bit more self-aware when you when you become aware of the the fact that there is a theory and there are facts or there's language and there's facts and we when you when you get out of the system and you see this that's one kind of awareness but then I think there's another level of awareness where you realize that or you identify with not the language not the theory but the mediator between the theory and the fact it's hard to explain but yeah it's one of the things that seems to be bringing this up and and and this has been interesting for me to watch and I see it with especially with what Jordan Peterson has been talking about is it is using biology and using Darwinism as a way to show the problem of this self referential loop because when when using using biology and neural neuro psychology and and Darwinism you have to to realize that our models of the universe the way we look at the universe has to be part of that the process which made us human it has to be a a product of of evolution or a product of the of the of the manner in which we think or the manner in which we look at the world you can't it's like when you you used biology or Darwinism as a as a basis for the science all of a sudden you know even physics has to be a product of evolution even mathematics has to be a product of evolution and so there is enough it seemed like there's enough self referential capacity for self reference to be able to give something which looks like the traditional yeah looks like the hierarchy of values that we find in the traditional worldview and it's so that's that's been interesting for me to watch because you know the way Jordan has been presenting this hierarchy of values isn't exactly the same ontological hierarchy that we find in a traditional representation but there's enough correlation between the two to be able to say okay well you know in the Bible and when we talk about God in heaven and when we talk about angels and when we talk about Earth that's what we're talking about we're talking about a similar type of structure which which which is the the type of dominance hierarchy as he uses as Jordan uses that you have in Darwin and that and that that that dot that dominance hierarchy where let's say our our theory of physics would be in that dominance hierarchy and would be let's say one of the major tool that human beings have has developed to interact with the world like that type of self referential capacity is what gives that the possibility of that hierarchy of values like I said like we're saying and this is stuff is really difficult to think about and difficult to talk about but it seems like that what's funny is is I'm sorry I was just gonna say when you think in within traditional terms as in traditional cosmology it's not a complicated subject at all yeah it's the most obvious thing but when you try to think of it with the lens of of science materialism then it becomes a really complicated thing because you're trying to let's say find some kind of agreement between the traditional cosmology and the materialistic one so that's that's what's difficult it's trying to reconcile those two perspectives really because when you when you begin to think in a traditional way it's not a complicated thing at all the idea of self reference and the notion that the universe is a fractal is one of the first things that you you encounter yeah because it's a natural it's a natural thing I mean symbols are usually fractals okay so maybe instead of trying because maybe instead of trying to break through the conversation at least expose the problem but I think maybe by giving a few examples from the traditional point of view giving a few examples from the Bible might be the best way for people to see how that how this works and how it elucidates not only the Bible but it also elucidates our experience of the world so I don't know if you want to talk about I know that in your book one of the major structures that you elucidate is the the relationship between the cosmic shape and the shape of the human being and how those two are images of each other so maybe you can go a little bit into that knowing people we people will be able to get all the details when your book is out but maybe you can explain a little bit of how that that would work yeah okay I can try it's a difficult thing because because almost all of the concepts that we use today are not the same as as the ancient concept so it's always difficult to talk about symbolism I'm still gonna try but it's always difficult because we always assume that we know the meaning of words yeah and we do but it's not that it just happens to be not the same as the ancient meaning so oh when I talk about these things I'll try to if I realize that the words that I'm using I'm using them in an ancient way then I'll try or if you see that I'm doing that maybe you wanna tell me you can do is at least aesthetically let's say like these in terms of the actual terms of the story you can show the parallels in the terms of the story so that people can see that there's clearly a relationship of structure and then once you show that then after that we can we can try to explain the let's say the deeper meanings of those concepts but at least people don't even see the actual pattern like they they struggle to even see the pattern so at least once they see the pattern we can then try to explain it okay so the most the easiest to understand I would say the the microcosm that's easiest to understand is the one you just said it which relates an individual to the entire universe and when when when we say that we're talking about the cosmos that's in the Bible okay not not the materialistic one that we have today the mechanistic one we're talking about the universe as described in traditional cosmology where you have heaven and earth and you have a mediator which is men when you look at it like that and when you understand the idea that earth means factual reality physical reality and heaven means ideas or theories or principles that are not manifest or that are not concrete or practical something like that then you can start to see that individual human beings their shape is the same as that that cosmos then it's actually pretty obvious it's we no longer see it that much because we no longer see the cosmos in the in the ancient way so we're not used to seeing those connections but when you do then you realize that an individual has a mind and a body it's it's the mind is the equivalent of heaven and the body is the equivalent of Earth and in the Bible it's pretty clear when when God creates Adam and by the way Adam means humanity so I think that's important to mention because that's just another example of different that's a Bible interpret the different scales because the word Adam means an individual a human and then it's the name of an individual but it also means humanity Laura so Freddie means it's yes yeah so if you manage something like that so whenever there's in the Bible it talks about Adam in the story of Adam and Eve it's talking about humanity at large yeah and it's also talking about an individual so that's something to be aware of it's just an example of somebody that exact that that that example you gave itself as an example of how it's it's using a particular image a particular let's say story of a man to be the microcosm of all of humanity and so even in the story itself it's built to be that way yeah and then the the shape of of man let's say at the beginning of Genesis when God creates having an earth it says God God created heaven and earth the the the earth was chaos and void and the Spirit of God was above the waters and so you have this idea of spirit and spirit is wind or rath it's alright yes that that's also important to say yeah when it says the word spirit it means wind it also means breath because breath is wind right there's no difference it's like what you said in the last video it's not a metaphor breath is wind red is actually wind and so and the only difference which is important oh that's another example of a word that that we have to sort of redefine the word spirit breath sold all those words they refer to the breath it means breath and it right away if you understand that you can see the relationship with heaven and in the story it says God formed Adam from the dust of the earth and blew into his nostrils the breath of life so right there you can see that it's all about joining heaven and earth yeah so the breath comes from heaven and the he raises some earth in the nest man yeah that man is made from that Union and it's exactly when you talk about the mediator then it shows exactly that that man is the mediator because in the beginning these two things are completely separate you have you have heaven and spirit and breath and wind above and you have this chaotic formless earth at the bottom and those two things don't let's say they don't touch each other they're there they're separate and then then there's the creation of the different the different strata the strats of of creation the heavens and then the grass and then it comes closer and closer and closer until you reach the human being and then the human being has the heaven enter into the earth and joins with the earth so that quite you know explicitly in the story man is that is a microcosm of having an earth but also the mediator because he joins them together he's not just a representation of that separation but actually a representation of that union and then within man there's another microcosm which is the separation of man and woman which represents again heaven and earth which are separated you know man being heaven and being earth but then you United at the same time so like and then that keeps you know it's like these microcosm keep embed keep embedding themselves into each other to create this fractal structure that we're talking about the Bible is just full of those those fractal like structures oh yeah I just want to say something about also again the concept of breath maybe just talk a little bit about that because it's it's also important to understand the connection if you want to think in that way where the breath is related to the mind the breath is related to the intellect that's something we don't really we don't really see things like that anymore but it's a pretty obvious thing actually that your breath and your intellect are related because if you stop breathing I mean I wouldn't I wouldn't recommend this but stop breathing for 20 minutes you lose consciousness [Laughter] so there's a clear connection between breathlessness and intellect and things of that we're kids people would play that game where they would choke someone that's a bad game but people would like choke someone until they actually passed out it was like it was like a very disturbing game that people played but there's also the idea I just wanted to say that the idea is there is an obvious connection between heaven air wind breath intellect that we don't necessarily see anymore but when you read the Bible you have to understand these connections in order to understand most of the stories in the Bible yeah and also the one of the connections between breath and intellect is through the idea of word or logos because yeah because speaking is the manifestation of intellect and speaking is words are pushed by this breath the breath pushes out the sounds and so there's an others a definite there's an obvious relationship between the manifestation of intellect and and and breath and you see that in the story of Genesis itself again God speaks in order to separate the things of the world God speaks the so you have to kind of almost see this image of this breath that is above of above the earth and then it becomes the vehicle for God's intellect to to manifest itself and create the world and importantly the first words that come out of God's mouth are let there be light okay so it says the the breath of God or the Spirit of God or the wind of God hovered over the waters and then God said with that breath let there be light so the light is in ancient cosmology is is is meaning you know you represent the intellect the meaning the principle the idea so that which gives meaning to other things that which defines things it's it's the logos it's the word its its reason its logic things like things of that nature yes although there's this this verse in that I think it's Christ who actually says that who says the eye is the light of the of the body and I remember you always read more boring me these annoying materialists who who just see that as a kind of you know a kind of misunderstanding of science you know once again failing to realize that people were just weren't materialist about 2,000 years ago to see it rather in that sense that when you you take into account the consciousness in the scope of how the world exists if you take into account the fact that consciousness mediates between you know the this the potentiality of the world and then the the capacity for that world to have sense and have meaning then the idea that the eye is the light is the lamp of the world makes app makes total sense because the when because light is not is light is meaning in ancient cosmology like to look at something is to is to separate it from the potentiality and to define it to define it yeah to make it into a concrete not to make it but to participate in its in its appearance as a crude thing right because I mean you could you could separate it into into atoms and atoms and neutron whatever and subatomic particles but we don't we it's focused it's coherent and that the human consciousness is part of that emergent phenomena yeah so I think that's another yet another example of how we have to redefine words because the definition of light today is again a materialistic definition but in the past in aichi cosmology it was not the same at all so it's it's extremely important to relight in a traditional cosmology and in reading the light once again it's not hard to do that because you all you have to do is to understand it in terms of phenomenology in terms of of how the phenomena how we interact with that phenomena I mean light is that which makes things visible like yeah that's what light is it isn't in a human experience light is not a wave or a particle or or like you know the the this the constant you know that the speed of light is is it not all those things are not important in the way we we interact with it in in our in our everyday life light is that which makes things appear like it makes them visible it turns like if you walk into a dark room in the in the absolute darkness you're gonna bump into things you're gonna you're gonna not know what's there you could die you could fall into a hole anything could happen but when the light goes on then all of a sudden things become clearer and things become separate things become unified and in your find well defined and well defined in your experience that's why also why like you said that's why the first thing God creates is light because it's that concise possible animus with speaking with word like yeah and so yeah I was thinking an example again of that man is a mediator between heaven and earth so when God asked Adam to name the animals that's a perfect example of being a mediator between heaven and earth because then what Adam has to do is take an abstract idea that he has and then bring it into concrete manifestation so he names the animals according to certain ideas that he has that's the idea so he's like in but he's seeing his ideas embodied in certain beings in the world and he's giving that identity to those animals yes and it's important to see it's because this is one thing that people are are are struggle with is that the idea when you say like he he has these ideas about the world people right away thing oh it's relativity subjectivity it's like no that's not it because it's because he is a mediator between heaven and earth the the the connection between the idea and the phenomena that is appearing before him is is a unitive and a real thing like it's it's it's actually the thing itself like it's the capacity to participate in the thing itself as well it's not just like he has this he has a fantasy or or whatever right it's not just a whim right right it's based on it's based on his reason is based on his intellect so he is the point where that those phenomenon are that he is encountering actually connects with their meaning like it's not it's not in a way like he doesn't have a choice like the way we think of choice today in naming the animals he sees the light of his I like that and his word come together and participate in the being of that of that thing that's in front of in front of him it's hard to think about in such kind of direct way because we you know our experience of the world is is more is more that's a deluded let's say but we have to understand that that the story in Genesis Adam represents man as such in a in a kind of pure let's say on you know untrammeled way let's say before the fall we would say in Christian terms so yeah and and it's related the idea of the fall is related to losing that capacity yeah so losing the capacity of correctly naming the animals or correctly perceiving the world according to its spiritual meaning so yes so we we can't imagine what that means obviously that's the image is there in the in the story because when Adam and Eve are chased from the garden the consequences or that are that God gives to Adam and Eve are that like the idea that that Adam will have to work the the ground and the idea also that there will be thorns is this notion that it's as if the earth is revolting against Adams mediating meeting principle or else he's losing its capacity to be a natural mediator and so he has to to supplement that that that state with with effort like yes he has to he has to be careful because the the the the potential the the world deal it's a the the created role becomes dangerous for him and so he has to fight it off in some ways and yes to the hold it at bay so that he can continue to play that role as mediator yeah well yeah the idea is that well this this will give us other examples of microcosm in the Bible as well the idea is that after the fall humanity has to to correct or fix certain things artificially in order for the meaning and the fact to match correctly so so for example there's a lot of examples about it like you said working the ground in the garden Adam naturally gets food but this is see now we if we want to talk about these things it we have to I can't define a lot of terms but that's another example of being a mediator between heaven and earth humans eat food okay food comes from the earth yeah we eat it it becomes our body so it's kind of a reproduction of what I said before when God created Adam he come in from the earth well each time we eat we're doing that in a way we're gathering the earth into ourselves to ourself in a way that works because we can't just eat soil obviously we have to arrange the matter in a way that will it will be able to host our intellect our patterns are our ideas so you eat certain foods that your that can host your mind that's the idea of your spirit mm-hmm so not all matter can do that and the idea is that in the garden there was a natural way in which this happened with with the fruits of a tree and then once we lost that then we had to fix things so that they could host meaning so the the greatest example of that is the idea of building the temple mm-hmm so why do they have to build a temple because they have to artificially join heaven and earth it doesn't happen in a natural way anymore because of the fall so now we have to arrange the facts in a way artificially so that they're able to host the identity the breath the Spirit of God mm-hmm it becomes like a body for God similarly when we eat food ourselves we have to arrange it we cook it you fix it we don't eat raw meat for example because if we do we might get sick getting sick means that it doesn't host our spirit yeah correctly that's what it means so when you when you cook food and you arrange it in a way that it becomes edible it's it's it's this it's kind of the same thing as building a temple it means you're arranging certain facts so that they can artificially host your your spirit your mind yeah and there's like a and there's a grand pattern in the Bible like the grand story which is which kind of embeds all these things together and this idea is that you have this this garden at the beginning and then the fall we move away from the garden and we keep moving further and further away from the garden and as we move further and further away from the garden we have to supplement that fall with artificial like clothing than agriculture then cities etc etc and in a way it's like this straight it's like I'm moving away from the garden but it's also a way it's also a way to preserve the possibility of being mediator and having a nurse yeah so then at the very very end of the whole story this idea of this New Jerusalem that comes down from heaven we have this idea of that the final let's say manifestation of this whole big big big big big pattern is a giant city right so in a perfect city let's say which which is the full supplemental thing with in the center the garden with the tree in the middle in the garden in the middle and then the whole center so it's like there's this whole process whole story in the Bible and at the end there's an image of the final result of it which kind of Rhian capsule AIT's the whole story let's say so it's like that's also an example of how these patterns like they they embed themselves in each other and then finally there's this final image of this this giant pattern of how the world exists yeah so here's another example of a microcosm which which is related to what what we just said so the idea of nakedness in the Bible the idea of being either naked or dressed is also an example of a concept that applies two different scales of reality so when we say in the Bible when it says naked it's a very deep concept but we can talk about it a little bit I don't think I'll be able to reach all of the implications here but the idea is naked means natural mm-hmm that's what it means but that has a whole lot of implications in the Bible so things are are natural when you say they're naked it means they're in their natural state so but if you think about this ancient cosmology what was the most natural state is the first day of creation before creation is this world covered with water okay that's what make the most natural thing in that cosmology is the flooded world this is a little bit strange we're not - thinking oh yeah that's a no it's tough for people to get it but it's important it's really important yeah it's important because with that idea you can understand a lot of the symbolism in the Bible so the most natural state is this state of cyclical reality which is the first day of creation where everything is fluid and that goes with the idea that things haven't been differentiated yet right everything is connected in a fluid way things aren't distinct so when it talks about being naked it's related to that idea okay so this is why also in the in the story of Adam and Eve it says the snake was the most shrewd beast of the field okay but the word fruit it means naked okay but then when you understand the idea that naked in the Bible refers to the most natural state then you can understand why the snake is naked okay because this snake is like this fluid for being is like the water at the beginning naked means natural it's like the most primitive state now there's nothing wrong with the nakedness until the fall yeah because things were naturally mediated correctly that's the idea of the fall and then when there's the fall it means Adam and Eve tried to eat something they couldn't handle that means they tried to take facts into their include facts that they didn't know what to name how to explain with their theories that's really what it means so when you eat something that you can't handle it that's that's the miniature version of a bigger picture where you see things that you don't know how to name you can't name you can't identify then that has something to do why when Jordan Peterson is always talking about this it is this kind of entry into chaos where you know you if you face something was disrupts you what you know it's like and all of a sudden you you don't know like he talks often about this idea that you know you find out that your spouse has been cheating on you for 10 years and so that that that that like that hitting of a fact or something that you can't ándale you know throws your whole world up into upheaval and it's like everything is on the verge of falling apart so then you have to you have to work at putting things together like after it's like it needs the work to bring things back to fix things yeah exactly you have to fix things make them fit your mind again make them fit your plans let's say you have plans yeah something happens that isn't part of your planning you don't know what to do with it it it makes you wander yeah it could be anything your car breaks yeah you're driving - you're driving on a trip your car breaks down all of a sudden you have to change your plans if you don't you're going to wander and be into absolute chaos you have to work to rearrange things so that it can fit with you what you're trying to do or that it can lead to something that's that that isn't just absolute you know nothingness right yeah so the idea the idea of nakedness and rest it has a cosmic meaning it has an individual meaning so the idea is that things are either in a natural state or they're artificially fixed to make them work to make them to make your theorists match the facts so this happens at the individual level I mean you have an idea have a plan but maybe your body your passions or whatever don't cooperate yeah so you want to do something but let's say you're lazy that's your body telling you no sorry I don't agree with your plans I'm not gonna follow along so you have to force artificially force yourself to do certain things so that that's what it means to be dressed in the Bible and and clothing itself is an example of that so again it's not it's not about having metaphors the idea of clothing that's what clothing is for open its its to correct your passions okay it's to give your your head your mind your your your things that have a purpose to give them dominance over your body yeah yeah you because you know you're you're coal so that's an example let's say you're cold and so you wear clothing so that you're not cold also you if let's say you you everybody was naked on all of a sudden you know your desires would be there'll be problem would be always be a way awakened and so to clothe them is to be able to manage those desires so that you can do something else besides being completely taken over by those by those by those types of thoughts and such yeah so so here's another example of again of seeing it as as a different skills so you can say for example so clothing when we when it talks about dressing in the Bible another example if you look at it a slightly bigger scale so at a social scale let's say at the scale of a society well you have the same idea you have some individuals that are the head of that society they're the leaders they make the laws they they make sure that the laws are followed and then you have a population so the idea is in order dressing dressing this this society would mean making laws and forcing people to follow the laws like jail for example is an example of clothing but not at the scale of the individual at the scale of the society so you make some laws people don't naturally follow those laws necessarily so what do you have to do you have to fix the population so that it follows your laws so when you put people in jail that is the equivalent of dressing yourself right extreme version of dressing yeah well it's it's yeah it's only extreme because it's a bigger social level right you look at it at a bigger scale it always it's always more extreme I mean if we if we if we were at the scale of our body parts and we saw that what dressing did we would probably find it extreme but we're not here's an example here's another example also of different scales so these are these are very to get its ugly but we're gonna try anyway so at the individual scale we're talking about eating before taking in matter into your body so that same concept exists at a slightly bigger scale which is the scale of a society a society or a civilization eats but what does it eat it eats people it looks pretty see to say it doesn't literally eat people with the deed but the the society is a being and it integrates more individuals so when somebody is integrated into the society that's a larger scale version of an individual eating food and that's very important in the Bible and the way the way it eats people let's say to not make it sound crazy is is is that it integrates their work it integrates their businesses it integrates their tax money it integrates you know their their children and and and and it also makes them part it makes those an identity yeah and give them exactly this a lock them participate in the identity of the city or of the nation or of the the group whatever that is it gives them it says you're part of this group and that and your exchange like your trade for that that you give me your your strength your work your your your services so that we all participate in this unity like this you this unity so yeah it's a perfect example of that appearing at different scales and it's actually exactly the same thing that we do when we eat food because food is is matter we eat it it becomes our body what does that mean become our body it means now you will follow the laws of this this being the laws so my hand used to be a sandwich it's it's not a metaphor and he I hate a sandwich it became my flesh now this flesh follows the instructions of my head it follows the laws it follows my identity it doesn't follow it only it's its natural state anymore it's it again there's no metaphor in there at all so at a biggest scale individuals are by a society it means they're integrated into that body advocate and on the condition that they follow the the laws of that society they follow the rules so that's like the sandwich becoming my flesh and following the laws of my head that it's it's it's just that a slightly bigger step so what does it mean to dress the body at the individual level it means put clothing on but it also means to force my body to some degree to do certain things that it naturally wouldn't yeah because like I said you could be either be lazy or you could have too much energy or something like that you have to restrain yourself so in a society same thing there are certain rules that are there just to restrain artificially make the body coherent yeah that's right so I I think that if we try to come back slightly to our beginning point which was talking a little bit about let's say the way the place where thought is today and and and like the questions that scientists and and those types of thinkers are asking themselves I think that we can come to this notion of this concept of emergence which has been kind of a buzzword for the past you know 10 years or whatever I don't remember exactly when it started but its idea that that these these pattern beings appear at different levels of a manifestation you know like an individualist city than the cosmos and planetary systems and all that that in fact and the struggle scientist types have in in accounting for that for that that jump in different levels of manifestation well I think that we can we can say that the key is consciousness like it has to be consciousness and that that taking into account the the self the self referential loop at the beginning right this the the self referential loop of self-awareness and consciousness is and int in including the fact that we are the ones looking at these phenomena into the system is going to be the only way to get out of this dilemma one of the things that I want to do in these YouTube channels and hopefully we can do it together as well is maybe sometimes take particular stories or particular you know laws in the Bible and then just show people how that those that fractal structure of symbolism how these patterns embed themselves in each other and how really almost all like let's say all of them even are just a repetition of that very first story in in Genesis of the creation story where heaven and earth are separate and then United in in the human being that that all the stories are just kind of these repetitions of the same pattern in different ways at different scales with different variables but just kind of repeat this and and fit into each other yeah yeah the story of the Garden of Eden is the is the ultimate pattern of everything it's it's meant to explain everything well there isn't the solution to the products plane the problem that we're in I would say the solution is probably innocence Christ I think that solution is the story it's not in this story yeah we'll get there at some point start talking about how the story of Christ is like almost is this answer like constant answer to the to the the the dilemmas and the the openings that are proposed in in in in in Genesis how how his story kind of unites everything together let's say so but the way we need to kind of move through it slowly so that people can can understand it when we talk about it okay well I think that I think that we've got some good stuff and so this is what we wrote this is what we have until until your book is ready and people can dive into it in more detail and so yeah so we'll talk more and see if there's other no examples that we can that we can bring up and maybe go into certain stories together one of the things I like to do maybe in the future with you is as I wanted to talk about the story of Tamar which you talked about in in the video with Jordan Peterson because I think a lot of people they would I think that that if that story is really difficult but I think that if you can understand that story you can understand a lot of things that are happening right now in our society so it'd be interesting to talk about yeah it's uh it's it's often a question of we redefining the terms again that's right difficult to talk about symbolism today things that used to be absolutely obvious in the best IV kind of extremely difficult to understand today because we don't have the same perspective at all yeah so that's all luckily we still have our everyday experience which we can use as a as a base for for understanding symbolism so so hopefully we can get people to to get back into their into the more primordial experience of their body and everyday life which is the which is a good way to start at least yeah all right so so what everybody will see you very soon well bye if you enjoyed this content and our exploration of symbolism get involved I love to read your comments in the comment section below please go ahead and share this on social media to all your friends and also please consider supporting us 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Channel: Jonathan Pageau

Views: 68,952

Keywords: Christian Symbolism, religious symbolism, Christian Symbology, Matthieu Pageau, Genesis, Symbolism, Jonathan Pageau, science versus religion, Fractals, Adam and Eve, Jordan Peterson, Creation, Consciousness, Sam Harris, interpretation, Bible, Christianity, Judaism, psychology, existentialism, meaning, self-awareness, patterns, Symbolism interpretation, Biblical Symbolism, science and religion, metaphysics of pepe, jordan peterson logos, sacred art, symbolism in art, what is symbolism

Id: Q1-vG-bLDwE

Length: 45min 14sec (2714 seconds)

Published: Fri Sep 15 2017