Symbolism Happens!

one of the biggest problems I run into making videos about symbolism is that on almost every single video I will have a series of comments criticizing me being frustrated in me because they think that I am somehow saying that either the resurrection or whatever event I'm talking about for example the videos I made about Alex Jones people are criticizing me saying that I am describing what they're saying or the event or the story as just a metaphor in the sense that it is something which isn't related to reality or is it related to events and so hopefully this video will be the final nail in this coffin because I keep coming back to it and everybody will understand that when I talk about symbolism I also think and it's also important to understand that symbolism happens [Music] this is Jonathan Petro welcome to the symbolic world for those who follow me carefully I would say most people by now understand that when I talk about symbolism I am NOT talking about the notion of metaphor or the I'd like you would say you know the the wind was cold you know like my heart in winter or whatever some kind of of poetic metaphor to describe something to give it feeling or to give it or even a kind of simple metaphor in the sense you know of let's say the pilgrims progress where this image means something else in the world when I talk about symbolism I that is not what I'm talking about what I am talking about is the notion that underneath our stories underneath images underneath also the way we experience the world there are patterns and that those patterns are really the way the patterns of how reality lays itself out so when I'm talking about symbolism I am NOT suggesting that the events that are being referred to or the things that are being spoken about didn't happen sometimes they didn't happen sometimes they did happen the important aspect that I'm trying to point to is eat whether or not we're telling the story whether it's a fictional story or it's actually a story of something that happened an important thing that happened especially those the structure by which we even recognize that it's a story the structure by which we even recognize that it's something that we need to pay attention to that that structure is symbolic that is a symbolic structure in a story you have the beginning and moving towards a purpose moving towards an end in an image you have a frame which delimits it from the rest of everything else all those things or would bring reality together in us for it for us to be able to see that it's actually something something to pay attention to and so this is really the biggest break that everybody needs to make in their thinking because when I talk about the structure of how something is described I am neither I am NOT saying that it didn't happen nor sometimes am I saying that did happen I'm only trying to point at how the manner in which the thing is described is is a symbolic structure many times these relate to actual events that happened in the world why because what I'm trying to show you is that the the nature the main way in which reality lays itself out is necessarily symbolic the way that you perceive things in the world is symbolic in the sense that there's too much in the world and we have to condense that information into something that is meaningful it is something that is a pattern okay and so whether it is how you will you know talk about your child's birthday party whether it is whether it's about you know the Bible story or a you know or a Marvel movie within though all those stories there is a symbolism a pattern by which we recognize the meaning in it okay now there are certain stories there are certain texts which are more symbolic in the sense that they seem to condense in a more pristine manner these patterns and they show them to us in a manner which is clear because in Matt you can imagine let's say the world manifesting itself through different patterns we have all these patterns we have seasons we have let's say just in terms of time we have seasons we have years we have months we have weeks we have days all these are cyclical patterns that repeat themselves now there is a mess there's a little bit of messiness to these patterns that is the seasons aren't always the same there are four seasons but they don't always always last the same length sometimes one season is more intense than the other you know but the pattern of the season as we pull back and we look at the seasons we can recognize let's say the the pattern of seasons in the West Frank we just we've cut it into four there are four seasons which which also relate to the the solstices and the equinoxes of course none of this works perfectly like a like an actual clock we can still see within it through the diversity we can see the pattern and that's how all stories all patterns manifest themselves there's a noisy aspect to it there's a noisy aspect to it but then within that noise we are nonetheless able and not only able but inevitably we will see the pattern and so there are stories which are more symbolic in the sense that they tend to show us the pattern in a stronger sense so when for example I talked about how Alex Jones refers to certain conspiracies talks about psychic vampires talked about interdimensional beings talks about you know of course he is talking about actual events whether or not those events are factually true honestly I don't know but he's obviously talking about events in the world but he is describing them in a manner which is which is extremely symbolic now when it comes for example to the Bible this is the biggest criticism that I've had is that people somehow think that I don't believe that the Bible is describing event and and I will say it here and I will say it as loud as you want to hear it I think that every thing in the Bible is describing events the the the idea that ancient people were sitting around and making up stories you know in order to I don't know in order to fool other people I don't know what I don't think that that's just not how the world works the the Bible is describing events and not only the Bible but also all so many ancient stories whether it's the Iliad whether it's the you know the Odyssey whether it's even even mythological stories are describing events that happened in the world they aren't just pulling these out of there they're based on traditions of things that people have described as events in the world now sometimes those events are not necessarily as manifest as we would want them to be especially when they talk mythological stories when we're talking about gods that are not in the world but nonetheless they are talking about events to a certain extent and when it comes to the Bible in the Bible it is very important that the the that the symbolic aspect or the pattern aspect is related to an event aspect this is very important in the story of Israel the story of Christ it is it is absolutely important that those two are related to each other but the question is the question is how is it that we tell the story now there is something which happens I told you a little bit about how the world tends to manifest itself in a noisy manner and so there's a pattern but there's also a noise there's an order to any event but there's also a chaotic fringe or a chaotic aspect to that event and so when you describe the event sometimes what happens and I'll show you I'll give you a few examples of that in the Bible and in Christianity itself sometimes what happens is that the noisiness of the event tends to be tends to snap back to the pattern we see that for example even in the the times when you know an important character accumulates legends around them now one of the things you can do when you see that legends have accumulated around a a character is to say something like oh all this is legendary all this is just you know made-up you know that we need to we need to sift through that in order to see the real person the real historical you know person and you see that in for example in the historical Jesus there's Jesus Seminar and all that kind of in my opinion nonsense I don't think that that's the right way to see it when legends accumulate around a figure with the the most important aspect to ask ourselves is why are their legends accumulating around that specific person maybe it's because that person is worth paying attention to maybe those summer those legends that have accumulated around that person are there to show you something very specific about that person now of course sometimes the legends become extremely fantastical an example of course is in the in the story of Alexander the Great the legends become extremely fantastical now it doesn't mean that we have to believe in the factual 'ti of all those fantastical event factuality in the sense of let's say kind of historical facts the way we understand it today but nonetheless those legends still describe events to a certain extent and it's important to understand the way that they do and also the way that some of those legends can point us towards the character that the story is talking about now in the in the Bible especially in the story of Christ there there is an importance in staying close to the figure of Christ in the way that the story's told and in the way that the way that the Church Fathers have seen the traditions how they were passed to us there's a there's an importance in staying close to the figure because Christ himself is seen as the ultimate let's say joining together of meaning and events it is he is really this kind of place where everything comes together and so in his person there is it there is a tendency to want to stay close but to be honest as as an Orthodox Christian I am I don't have a problem with looking at some of the more legendary aspects of the story and and even legends that came later or traditions that came later that appeared later in the church and seeing them as important ways to understand the the figure of Christ and what Christ brought brought to the world now the man the way in which stories tend to let's call it compress maybe is the best way to say it there tends to be a symbolic compression where the noisiness of reality will snap back to the pattern so I can give you I can give you a few examples one example which is from the Bible itself is there was in the time of Christ a tradition which is not in the Old Testament but was a tradition which was seen with authority that before the Messiah would come Elijah that Elijah would come and manifest himself before the Messiah now I'm not going to go into the actual meaning of that pattern but you can see it as a pattern that someone perceived the pattern that before the Messiah comes Elijah and that is the pattern of how Messiah manifests himself how Christ manifests himself in the world and so um we can I'll go into the meaning of that maybe on in some other video but let's look at the fact that this is the pattern and it is a pattern which was accepted by people was accepted by the disciples was was accepted by Christ um and so then when the disciples asked Christ about this about whether or not the Elijah will manifest himself before the Messiah what is the answer that Christ gives the answer that Christ gives is the Elijah did Elijah did manifest himself before the Messiah and that Elijah was John the Baptist and Christ even recognizes you know that this might be slightly difficult for people to understand how he's joining those two figures together and so he says if you're willing to receive it but nonetheless this is what Christ does you know Christ shows us how the pattern is manifesting itself in the world and the pattern of Elijah coming before Christ is manifesting itself as st. John the Baptist manifesting himself before his own incarnation or coming to announce his incarnation okay and so that is a way in which if you look at the actual let's say events in the world there were some what messy some what you could say a bit noisy but Christ was able to see the pattern which was hidden in in those in those events and then was able to point to it and bring out the meaning the actual spiritual meaning that was in those those events now here is another another version which is more related to to Orthodox tradition an example of what I call symbolic compression a manner in which things become compressed together in a way that is there to show us even more the pattern even more what the meaning is behind on event so I want to show you an image of Pentecost now this is an icon of Pentecost there are some variations in the icon of Pentecost but mostly this is the image which has been received by the church and if you go to pretty much any Orthodox Church in the world that has an image of Pentecost you will see a variation on this image now if you look carefully at the image of Pentecost you will notice that in the icon of Pentecost there are a few things happening first of all if you look down in the bottom of the door there's a figure sitting there that is holding 12 Scrolls and that figure and he's that he's sitting in a dark place now a long time ago when this image began to develop in the church what used to be shown in the door which is the door to outside of the the high place was a an accumulation of different groups different races different peoples that were accumulated in the door this was of course the show that Pentecost was the moment where everybody received the truth of Christ in a manner which was understandable to them in their own language so to do that we show these all these people in the door but some at some point this these figures all these figures of different people began to compress and the compression made it into this one figure which is named cosmos and it is in this case we really do have a a kind of net for an allegory of cosmos and what it does is that it it's a it's there to show you the deeper meaning of the event which happened in Scripture which is that it is not only all people but it is all of creation the entirety of creation which is to be filled with the Spirit of God which is filled with the Spirit of God you know and so you can see the the the figure of cosmos is holding twelve Scrolls which are the twelve teachings let's say of the twelve disciples that are sitting around around in the upper room you can see them around but now let's look at those twelve disciples a little closer as well if you notice on the on the on the right side of the icon and you have to see the right side of the icon kind of flipped backwards you have to imagine that that in that empty space that you see in the middle between all the different disciples that Christ would be sitting there this is the empty seat which is left for Christ in that empty space so you have to imagine that if Christ was sitting there to his right you can see st. Peter with the gray beard with the curly gray hair and to his left you can see st. Paul now in the the description of Pentecost in the Bible was st. Paul at Pentecost that is impossible he wasn't even a Christian that he wasn't even he didn't he had never heard of Christ he had never heard of any of this and so in terms of factuality this is pushing this is compressing the the this image in a manner which shows us st. Paul there so why would you show st. Paul at Pentecost where we show st. Paul at Pentecost because we are trying to reveal the hidden mystery of this story which is a mystery of the church itself and so st. Paul is the st. Peter and st. Paul you could you could call the two pillars of the church the inner pillar the disciple the apostle to the Jews and the outer pillar you could call it the apostle to the Gentiles those two notions of the inner and the outer are there to to to show you that this image is not just an event in Scripture but is a an event which is showing us the pattern of reality itself which is showing us the left and the right of Christ which is showing us you know for people who are interested I've written several articles about the left and the right hand of Christ I'll put some links to that down in the description about especially st. Peter and st. Paul how they represent different aspects of the church and of Christ in the world and so this is what we're trying to show is how Christ manifests himself in the world and is to fill up the entire cosmos now is this false this is absolutely true this is what Christians believe this is what Christians this is a synthesis of what Christians believe the Holy Spirit filling the world is and so in order to do that there is a compression a symbolic compression which happens which brings st. Paul into the event which sometimes also add-in in some of the icons you'll see for the four evangelists in the twelve as well and of course we know that that the evangelists most of them were not disciples we're not part of the twelve at least and so some of them will show the four in that to once again give us the sense of the church itself and this pattern is not only represented in Pentecost but it's also represented in the Ascension where we see just like in the other one we see st. Peter on one side st. Paul on the other both looking up towards Christ who is the head and with the mother of God with Mary in the middle who is the body and so this image which is an event it is it is an image of an event in the Bible but it is compressed in a manner which is there to show us the hidden and the deeper meaning of the event and so one of the problems we have when we're reading stories in the Bible is that we are so we are so obsessed with a kind of forensic manner of describing that we forget that the purpose of describing these events is more important than than just the let's say the randomness of the or the noisiness of the event itself there's a reason why those events are described in the Bible there's a reasons why the Christians hold those events as being true and as being foundational for the church and though and and that already is a form of symbolic compression but as you can see in the image of Pentecost or as you can see in the way that Christ talks about Saint John the Baptist and his relation to Elijah there are ways to cut through the noisiness of the world and describe things show things in a manner which point to their meaning and to the way in which they participate in let's say the cosmic mystery or the cosmic pattern and so now I know this is really I know I'm pushing all of you I know that so many of you will think that I'm again saying that no everything is relative that no then you know you can say whatever you want that is not at all what I'm saying these patterns are objective these patterns are you know are objective and so many of them in their actual let's say geometric form are universal and so and and already when you tell a story you are ignoring a million facts when you tell the story you are focusing you're taking all these disparate facts and you are bringing them together in order to tell a story now there are ways in which that can happen even more and these stories can compress in a manner which is even tighter and tighter and tighter and when you look at the if you look at scripture though the more you go back in time the more you go back towards Genesis the more it seems like those those stories in order to to to describe more of absolute reality are compressing things compressing compressing all the way to the creation narrative which is which is them that one of the most dense and complete stories texts that you will ever read now do I believe that even even this the text in Genesis I believe that those are describing events but they they're not describing them in a way which would satisfy the modern historian they're just not and they don't have to and it doesn't matter because that's not the point we don't have those events anymore the events are gone we all we have are the stories and so those stories if they don't reveal to us the the mystery if they don't reveal to us the higher truth in a manner in which we can engage with them then those descriptions are our futile they're pointless and so I think that what we need is a shift in our thinking a very deep shift in our thinking which is difficult to do but unless we do that we're not going to we're not going to get through this meaning crisis we're not going to get through even the crisis in Christianity the the textual crisis with all these silly Bibles that have you know a million little pair you know parentheses and this version of this verse is not in one of these original texts and and and this and that and this kind of horrible textual analysis instead of looking at the text as something which has been given to us by the church within a tradition given to us in order for us to see those events but see them through the the lens of their pattern through the lens of their meaning and how they are transformative of reality so I hope this is helpful to you and I know that even even as you watch this some of you will find this controversial but it's important to understand it and it's important to understand it for all the videos that I make you know the the when when I taught when I make a video about Alex Jones at his description what I'm looking at is the manner in which the way he's speaking fits with those patterns when I talk about a movie I'm trying to show you the manner in which the the movie is set up fits with those patterns and when I talk about scripture or talk about icons I will do the same and of course it doesn't mean that I believe the movie happened and it doesn't mean that I believe that Scripture happen it means that the world is full of meaning and that the world is glowing with meaning and and that's what we need to see if we want to regain our culture if we want to regain our world if we want to regain you know our hearts we need to be able to see that the world is full of of meaning full of logos and so all right enough ranting for today I just want to make a few announcements before I finish that the dates of my trip to Paris have changed some people maybe have seen that I that I put them up on my website they will be they will be changing so please check that on the website if you want to come see me in Paris the the dates and the event for the Seattle conference is up I've already shared it on social media so you can find that also on my website and for those that are thought are actually supporting me on my website financially I've noticed with the person who is doing my website I've noticed that some people have not finished the inscription process and so because of that you know some people are not getting notifications or some people don't have access to the to the the subscriber only content and so if you're one of those people just go on the website there's a little chat box you can click on the chat box and and contact them with your with your issues if you haven't finished the subscription you can also write me a note it might you can write me through the website as well so that we can make sure that everybody who is is supporting me has access to the Q&A and also has access to early access to videos so once again guys thanks for the support and I will see you soon

Channel: Jonathan Pageau

Views: 38,062

Keywords: Symbolism, literal, christian symbolism, symbolism, meaning crisis, meaning, interpretation, movie interpretation, bible interpretation, hidden meanings, symbolism in movies, christian symbolism in movies, jordan peterson, paul vanderklay, alex jones joe rogan, alex jones, jonathan pageau, the symbolic world, religious symbolism

Id: qzdjUMkxsdE

Length: 27min 22sec (1642 seconds)

Published: Tue Mar 12 2019