Survivors of The Shoah Visual History Foundation: Leon Jolson Full Interview 1998

my name is Nancy Fisher today's date is March 19 1998. I am here to interview the Survivor Leon Jolson birth name Josephson in his home in New York City USA and the language of this interview is English my name is Nancy Fisher today's date is March 19 1998. I'm here with the Survivor Leon Jolson birth name jocelson in his home in New York City USA the language of this interview is English please tell me what is your name my name is Leah julson what was your name at Birth my name is can you spell that for me yes j o l s o h o n where were you born I was born and I I lived in Poland all my life except when I made business trip all vacation do you know where you were born yeah this is a small town I would rather this is not the interesting for this interview where did you spend most of your life also since I was a little baby but I don't remember the time what is your date of birth the 9th of May 1913. what is your age today 84. what was your mother's name my mother's name was marble and her first name was blema blima is in Jewish flower what was your mother's maiden name marble what was your father's name my father's name is c h a n-e-l did you have a Hebrew name I have a Hebrew name and I have read this name my Hebrew name is name is label did you have brothers and sisters yes I did would you please tell me their names starting with the oldest to the youngest my older sister was Esther in the second sister then was Abraham then was Sarah then was Benjamin and eichelman what part of Warsaw did you live in I also had a million people a million hundred in Warsaw you had 400 000 use 385 between this and the 400 000 views lived in the northern side of the city and read all kinds of Institutions and neighborhoods where good neighborhoods in the place where the Jewish people have been congregated and have been lower neighborhoods and the same thing goes in the other part were mostly the gentle people have lived I lived in a part what was the main Hub of the 400 000 people this was first of all the an intensive business part of the city and there was two apartment buildings there but mainly were business real estate in this part what was the address of your home I lived in three homes but I will give you the main address but the main address was zamenhofa 17. this before the name the spirit was named someone Hoffa the name was jikka the name zamenhof comes because my neighbor was the creator of the Esperanto language what was a universal language for the world and had branches all over the world and the Society of Esperanto linguists thought that this is going to prevent Wars and misunderstanding because if they're going to be an international language that people will be able to talk they will not fight and I knew this family standing in front of that home in Warsaw what would I see you would see that the second floor had a balcony what was the major things of the building and on the bow about honey was a sign advertising our business the sign was written in Polish but sewing machines and office machines Shah Zan was the first the two letters as Z for my father and then the name a smaller sign was before the entrance to the building was uh a Polish name for our business [Music] because to do business with government agencies or with anti-semitic uh customers this was more conducive to have a Polish name for a business apartment building yes in the same building we had the second floor was about three quarters was the showrooms in the balanceables and apartment and on the main floor inside was a warehouse a working room a technical room we have been the main part of the building we have occupied ourselves how many floors did the apartment building have the apartment building had originally four floors and finally two more floors were built over the apartment there were six walls in your apartment where did you sleep I slept in the middle of a puff an apartment it was a small bedroom and I have slept in this bedroom and with my brother had to be too bad I've been in the bedroom which brother Benjamin how many rooms did the family have to live in the family we had a main bedroom the family heads another bathroom and a big living room and dining room what was combined and of course a kitchen and about was not an electric motor but heated by it with coal the same thing the water they were called but in the kitchen was too heated with coal in those times where I would you could count on your fingers Apartments where you had hot water and hot water baths in Boston my mother had an apartment house in another apartment of this was considered an elegant apartment because each apartment had a bathroom mainly the the apartment had no bottom had running water but no and the building of the apartments in Warsaw were made they were different every building had a courtyard inside and this was socially very conducive because people after work used to congregate on this Courtyard in a lot of eleganton Apartments you had a little garden around this Courtyard and specially for this was conducive for teenagers for children a place to play and not to congregate on the streets this was a very good thought to to to bring up the younger generation in a more homely closer atmosphere what did your living room and your dining room look like what was the furniture the the domain Furniture in the dining room was a big table the other people have congregated during holidays and I would say to give you an example you had a lot of people who have been in difficulties to make a living because we had a business at the same time so brokers in all kinds of three people used to come up and some people knew if they are hungry they themselves went into the kitchen and cut themselves a piece of bread and sat down on the table and eat and ate was it a privilege to be invited into your home it was a privilege but a lot of Uninvited people came to did you have books in your home yeah we had both we had in one of the rooms where we had a bedroom we had a wall with books yeah we had another books in different languages especially in German the German language was a very popular thing in our house because we have been doing business to a great degree with Germany and I had a German governor who used to come to me weekends to study with me in original German philosophy what language was spoken in your home my father spoke to Yiddish but we Among Us have spoke polish my mother spoke Yiddish and polish my father was born not in Poland but in Lithuania and he finished the Russian gymnasium he was fluent in Russian and this was a one important thing to his business success because when he came to Poland he was fluent in Russian in the Polish Jewish businessman were not fluent in the Russian language so he has been able to get in the Russian buying officers with the Russian military he made very friendly connections with them and this was very profitable for him to start the business in in Warsaw the four being involved so he was with his uncle in Lithuania in vino my father son who was an inventor he invented the first lamps would make made a flame from Guess under this and he made a lot of money in with this to a point that the circumcision was a big building belongs to him and my father left for Warsaw because he was promised he promised him to make him a partner but later he came back on his word so he went towards at the start on his own what was your uncle's name triangle what went on typically in your home in the evening when the kids came home from school Congregation of all other peoples a my brother's friends some have been playing musical instruments so that they played in the evening on a violin in on a trumpet and my father in the other room had a lot of friends coming to him and talking politics partly business too but mainly politics the conversation that my father was a Zionist the conversation on the political Zionist this was the time of herzl of starting the movement in of the Mandate of the British mandate in this a very important factor in the Jewish circles and of course there have been political think on this times the Living Waters have been used used for business too because we haven't got enough place in the business quarters for instance we have been doing business with Germany we have been doing business with the United States and with the Great Britain and we had to have correspondence in this language so this correspondence used to be a part-time workers they will won't work three times a week half a days and they used to do their work in the living quarters in the living room what was your father's business sewing machines and office machines did you manufacture them or did you distribute other machines we distribute and we partly manufactured being exported it this was a business in the United States to export old-fashioned machines for instance to India over there they used when we have been already advanced they use the machines moving by hand and sitting on the floor so the label in Poland was very cheap and we had connections to buy in the United States this old-fashioned machines and to rebuild re-repaint reduce in water and sell it to importers in India you mentioned previously that you had many business dealings with Germany what were they yeah the the Germany has manufactured parts for all sewing machines for the whole world so we used to represent one of the biggest manufacturer in making parts for all machines from from in Germany in Dresden this was a city in the then my father represented big companies who made sewing machines for the industry for the Garment industry for the shoe industry and in a we used to import and install these machines to if somebody for instance event in any wanted to start a modern shop to make suits we could give him a set of machine installed already than in a modern way for to for to start and to finish his suit with the making the buttonholes and finishing Club petals in this till now to a point when I go in to buy a suit I touch this and I know what kind number of matrices because this tells you right away how this was made then we had office machines they represented an English company who made typewriters the Imperial typewriter and we have been importing rebuilds and four rebuilding typewriters from the United States in those time already the United States big officers used to change every five-year this set of machines and give to Underwood the machines what they used and take for him new one we used to buy up from people who got this used machine rebuild them and sell them in the in Poland and outside Poland in Europe and my father used to have on the songs machine about 40 people working on the typewriters about they the people working and of course we used to sell wholesale machines to dealers who sold them to home users to ladies the the economic situation in Poland has been different a ready-made clothing was not as popular as in the United States now women made a living being at home having its own machines and they and she was a seamstress made dresses and or for the Neighbors in the whole building and this has helped to a great degree to support the family SO sewing machines was a popular thinking in Poland this was a tool to make a living a tool to better in making the living in the our business was very known because of this where did your family get its clothes for the children when I was a child my clothes was bought in special stores would have handled children clothing but when I was already a young man I used to pick out the quote in a special clothing store but imported the quote from England more mostly Poland made good clothes too and give it to it there were two or three tailors who made clothing to measure but you had about 200 tables who made a living to make for making calls to order the you usually think even if somebody was not financially he used two to go in and buy a piece of cloth three and a half four yards and give it to a table and he finished for him the soup then he measured four times little before if it is so do you see the sewing machine business was quite combined with popularity foreign religious yes to a point was not Orthodox to a point like you would see in the United States P people with the lacks or this but my father used to go to school I used to go with him when I was older and I have protested sometime Saturday and and he he was religious but modern religious you know in the movement in Poland in Europe was in religion in usually the movement from the winner from the winner on what was famous my father was more religious on the the taste of the winner go on this was a worldly Judaism what's synagogue did he attend he attended Us in two synagogues for the synagogue to cross the street from us postal called the zolberg synagogue and this was about five black mamas a more elegant synagogue with that in Poland the synagogues have not been created like here there were no rabbis in synagogue synagogue the men ever remember then to a Raider what was here is called Yeshiva in every remember knew the laws of the talmud knew the laws of the uh of the Earth the basic rules of the of Judaism and there was not necessary a rabbi did you attend hater yes so different classes and I but not too long I interrupted Dakota and I went away to the gymnasium that's why I had to make a test in the gymnasium because I didn't start my education because I went into the gymnasium to the trade great this was already an advanced debate you know because you had any other children's great enough Dennis another great and then you went into the first grade how many days a week did you attend to hater six days a week how many hours all day I my mother used to send me dinner the lunch the lunch of the to the Hayden we're going to take a break now and change tapes foreign this is tape number two interview with Leon Jolson March 19 1998. can you describe some of your hater teachers yes I think that I have to clarify for you the rabbi institution in Poland because this is very important I feel because the popular the populace of the people in the shoes have been very versed in talmudic law in talmud the rabbi had no place made a living from the show we've also had only two main synagogues in the Nordic synagogue did Romans this was a great talmudic scholar in renowned languages polishing German in Hebrew and he was a professional and the same time he was a professor of the four of also University of judaistic subject then the Nordic synagogue has had a rabbi prophet's name he was a pro he was a historian in the same time he was a professor of Jewish history on the universe Varsity this were the main rabbis you had teachers Hebrew teachers would were attached to the gymnasiums where people boys like me or others used to end the gymnasium used to have the main language was done in Polish teaching but they had Hebrew in judaistic subject throughout the day so these people have thought thought the rabbi in the United States is a different thing the rabbi in the United States is a profession like a accountant like like an Entertainer he is serving a community in a different way VIA Rabbi in in Europe this was not only in Poland in other European countries of the same thing the institution of the rabbi in the United States is unique there's something some this became a a place where a person has been going to school to go to make a living for a lifetime this is important to understand the politics of the Revenant in in the United States do not exist you want me to describe my teachers I went to two to three School the Forbes called the Havens the first rose College school this was the school more advanced in the same building that we lived on the on the top floor of the the school I went there for a short time and then I went to a school across the street what was had more advanced classes and the date I went to a school what a rabbi has rented apart for himself in had only 18 boys and he has taught Hebrew and talmud and his daughter was a teacher in a public school so she used to commentee teach polishing mathematics in history this person has finished a famous Yeshiva and he had to make a living so he made this but he took boys from Rich homes about could support him with his name he never had more weight inch students they had to pay the rent in the other school and in this school I was bored and I was interested in it I would I was interested always in history I wasn't in interested in the part of chimera of laws because I felt that the laws that we had already in those time are too old to apply them constant I felt that in the in the temple to have sacrifices from cows on this I already rebelled what kind of sacrifice did you take a living thing can you put on the special place to burn it in the kohen is it is dividing yes between his this kind of thing has been rebelling in me you you render you understand more of those things there are laws that if a coin has to eat the food you have to have to take apart and put it on the obey in a certain way otherwise all the food voters is not culture I fade I felt even that him is a not a logical thing not to permit to read because you know there was a group of Jews who permitted to eat chicken with milk together because those three kind of use the the trade plant was astronites they permitted chicken with milk for instance the prohibition to eat was because of cleansing and it's in those time they couldn't clean the Hem from this little insect with rational to to forbid to eat him but in the time what I lived in Poland the hygiene was already in a position to clean the Hem from this insect in this world forbidden so the law the Jewish law said that have meat you can eat only from from a cow because this is the the food she brings back in in comes back to it and the hoof is split so a pig has no split roofs this is why the in this world they the borders of what you can eat and what you cannot eat I was rebelling I have to admit on the laws even now is written the mother is written in 19 in 2012 by by my mother this if he would live now he wouldn't read write the same way did you debate religious issues with your father and brothers I read they I I debated not so much with my father my father and my mother were very angry though my rebellious my I told you I had a I learned mostly not in school home for my Governors I had a half a day a governor in every day and I had a German during the weekend the dad the guy who was a my government during the week in the afternoons was a very intelligent person to a point that when he ran away from Poland he became the professor of psychology of Psychiatry on the Moscow University what night he gave me my basis of thinking he put my mind in a direction what is going to tell now and I am thankful to him but I have to I had to hide for my family the conversation in the teachings what he but because they would fire him or because he was an unbeliever completely but a very practical intelligent person at what age did you start working with him I start working with him in the about 14. and he used to come he was an adjunct in divorce or university but he couldn't make a living and he had a friend so he used to come and eat dinner with us and stay with her with us and finally when he was a a native from another not from Warsaw he was a native from Lodge an adult City and when he finished his job in Warsaw University he went home and I wanted him to have something for me what I knew he has he has dreamed to have he wanted to have a typewriter in a typewriter who was in those times a very Coastal thing for a person in his stage of earning so I have seen to itself to it that I somebody brought a typewriter to sell to my father who was not complete and he was in bad condition I bought a typewriter I was very friendly with the workers who worked and forever and after the hours they have rebuilt for me this typewriter in this I gave him as a presence and he promised me when he comes from on this typewriter he will write a report of cycle analysis of me and he did was it unusual or typical for you to be tutored at home in the afternoon in addition to the other studies at school and on the weekend unusual and who who wanted people to this who was responsible for that your mother your father my mother my mother finally somehowed from came out for me in discussion was very unhappy because she said said that I changed that I I became an unbeliever and she was very unhappy and I did say what do you remember about your mother my mother I remember that she was very thoughtful about the family the cookings and the food preparation for the holidays and for this and she was an elegant woman she loved to dress every night she all had clothes were made to order by the best dressmaker in the breast tailor in Warsaw she has a fair quote from the best in from the choice skins always she was tall she was elegant and beautiful my father was an older Bachelor because he came before he was in a position to support the family he did not marry my my mother was much younger than my father my father was already when he married about three to five years old and she was young but her own father was a very religious athletic man with a beard still here with a special kapota and she was not in the vein here she had an uncle this father this grandfather had a brother who was completely different who was an Industries and his wife was about so my mother used to spend more time in this uncle house being her fathers and mothers what were you what were your mother's father and mother's name my mother's father's name was my beneficial marble and the mother layer who have any special in your home that were favorites of yours my mother was so careful with no total that we have to had been six children and brothers we had a cook and a mate that she cooked for everybody this is what he likes she could make three or four kinds of of meat very important of it Did You observe the sabbath in your home yes what was that like Friday evening everybody had to be congregated to dinner my father used to go to show I didn't go Friday even Saturday I used to go with them he came to home he made the same traditional material Kiddush in the The Blessing over the house have been baked at home and usually the the good housekeepers who had had good cooks and made have been baking things at home and this was made very thoughtful in a very special what was the typical fetch two kinds of fish boiled fish and and the filter fish and then poses chicken soup with noodles and then came meat was almost four kinds of meat chicken meat a flying the flank and Tong tongue baked meat all kinds of all kinds of meat and then the desserts desserts were boiled food fruits from as the season was and of course the the baked things with the inside we between fruits with all kinds of fruits and of course we were tea drinkers very much what did the table look like how is it prepared the table was prepared with the most elegant table cloths and salads he embroidered each week different ones and the silver was the the candelabras were the most beautiful ones Who lit the candles my mother left the candles who said the prayers my father where did you sit at the table I sit at the table kneel my father that's the youngest what about the other religious holidays during the year observed very rich with the ritual with all details did you have the the business was closed in holidays and Saturdays sometimes it's my when we were already grown up people my brother and I I in an important client had to come Friday and he was late so we have been waiting and my father was prepared to go to school he was very angry if we did not close the business did you have a effect yeah I liked holidays Passover was how the day was to what I liked in generally I liked the Shabbat were you Bar Mitzvah yeah the environmental was not debate how you have him [Music] you went to shul you were you were called to the Torah you said you'll part of the Torah and the people congratulate you and they then the people went for a Kiddush home to the parents of we lived very close today and dairy things have been prepared salvat herrings in a cold drinks in this world's Department who prepared you for your bar mitzvah I tell you frankly I wasn't supporting supposed to be prepared because from greater I knew the part you understand everything you would depart this is what it was the first thing you understand here everybody who let let go a bit and he puts a a black hat is a rabbi but this is not a rabbi in Poland consisted to of a business part what was the business part of Rabbi each Precinct had the rabbi kehilla used to support and you couldn't be married or have a birth certificate unless you went to you preaching to this Rabbi and you had to bring a Gentiles had the church and the church keep the you had to bring I think five witnesses to with you to the precinct the and they have written a statement in the witness that the male or female child was born named this and this and this was the ceremony completely different and all this uh acts went into a special archive for Jews and if you needed a birthday you had to go to this archive if you wanted a passport and you needed independent institution would could Levy taxes on the use in the in this neighborhood and the taxes was collected by the government for Decatur completely different institution more organized more disciplined the same is the the burying somebody the cemetery was running and if you I for instance had a terrible incident when my father passed away I announced in the Jewish paper that he that the burial will come from our house one o'clock and I went to the gamina to to settle with them the place and I had to make payets at the amount of money we had a thing an opinion as rich people so the guy who has been in charge of it came out with to me with an astronomic amount of money and I have been heckling and he knew that I have to have it settled till one o'clock and I wanted a place in the main alley as you went in on the cemetery I heckled with him the whole day and this was not a good feeling for me the day when my father died and I remember till today the unpleasantness but I had this day in the Jewish humina and finally I had to agree to a very to assume what would be now fifty thousand dollars if I in what other ways did the kahila influence Jewish life in Warsaw they have grown a hospital for Jews in in use of wooden pay has been accepted over the without pay and some very primitive Traders have been supported by the very primitive to know only the very poor people took advantage of it and the politics was on the it was supposed to be a democratic institutions and voting for the for the board so the the populace symbolso consists of the leftists of socialist debunked in the Communists the Zionist and the religious aguda of the with the no they didn't wear glowing blackheads they break their velvet cups over there and they have been and the zionists haven't been good organized the Bund has been good organized and they have been good and they have both have been politicians and trying to bring in the scientists to have the hand on the gimina this was a very important position the president of the Ximena [Music] handling and exchanging exchanging favors and all those things and you have to help the convection connection not to Levy with a very high tax too what were some of the other Jewish businesses in Warsaw predominantly owned and run by Jews Stillman the most the needle industry 99 in Jewish and clothing shoe making was a the furniture industry was in in Jewish and building was a new real estate of induction and this made the youth financially very important to a point that the Germans were prepared because they had good information they came to Poland with the idea and knowing that the clothes industry is Jewish you understand Daniel knew what is what's going on everything was they had a complete guide what they have to do where they have to go for certain things in order to to to be able to manage we're going to take a break now and resume in a moment this is tape number three interview with Leon Jolson March 19 1998 what year did your father pass away you possibly in 1936. in December what impact did that have on your life they said that's a very big impact the whole sickness of my father before he dies was a impact in a change of way of thinking on me the medicine was on a very low level Cardiology and Laurel level the best cardiologists used to come to our house to see my father Vienna was in those time on the highest degree in cardiology and this was a professor or on the Vienna medical school venkenbach who was considered the number one cardiologist in his books in cardiology are used in Translation till today so we have tried to get him to Warsaw this was a visit of this man to Warsaw was about 25 000 and he had to have people with him in generally we had in our house when my father was already seriously I think a nurse in a doctor 24 hours and this rankenbach came and he couldn't do anything the the Cardiology wasn't such a law when I see what they do now I cannot believe that such a backward thing could be could exist and my father's dead made only a I just grew up overnight this is difficult to describe the change but have occurred in my thinking in my life this time but his life went down in my mother was it was alive and um my brother who was the main person in the business was already engaged in those times which brother Benjamin my older brother was Abram was not a businessman he was a definition Benjamin was a businessman and my two sisters the oldest went in business for themselves together not with their husbands had had a different business businesses and my brother when he was engaged then out of the business and he has started a business for all themselves so you can see the business has like split in three process in every body has been pulling in a nice way on his side on in his side in the start of the sanctions in the family I have to admit my mother was in the middle and she couldn't do anything my sister Sarah was with me and this oldest brother Abraham and he was not a businessman so this is the time that I had to quit school from the sixth day I saw this that oh I have to continue my wife as I continued to be a free will go lucky person all to start seriously to pull together the business and see if the business I saw that this this was written on the walls I saw and I decided that I wanted the business should exist and I went into the business how old were you I was about 16 going on 17. and I made a plan that first I have to consolidate Define points of the business in Germany mainly because we did a lot of business and and then in in New York and I went in it in to be friends with you with all my heart and all my salt in all my strength I was very successful unusually successful to describe to you how inexperienced our boss I went the first time to Germany and I went to the resident to this main manufacturer of Parts who was a big part of our business and of we used to represent them and I came to Dresden and I was overwhelmed I saw a factory on four blocks in the thousands of workers are working and here I was a young boy I never had to do do business and relationship in this way so when I had to open up the door to the entrance I got scared and I withdrew I withdrew to a point that I wore I walked around for about an hour around the blocks and I thought what to do finally I mentally put myself to a certain way at ease and I told myself I cannot go back home not to go in and to see and I opened up the door I was greeted by a receptionist I knew the language already to not so fluent like I know now but I used I knew to Converse for my times with my governor and in school item cap German too and I was good in in languages always this this receptionist was like an angel for me she was smiling she left said put me to a certain degree at ease and she brought me into a room and asked me to sit down and said he will call the person who is in charge of this and I was waiting and came in a man who was an executive his name was Miller and he right away knew who I am in he knew the history of our business and he put me at ease I spent with him the whole day he introduced to me me to the top and for him what is too fun that a young boy like this he hasn't got clients in my age Who coming to visit him from oversea so a certain relationship has been build up from the first look he on me in higher eye on him that he was pleasant and he was in he was knowledgeable and he knew a lot that I didn't have to well excuse me what was his name Noah and I walked out from the successfully cementing a relationship what was very very important from over there I went back to Berlin where we had a relationship with a Jewish company between whom I knew because the owner of the companies two sisters and they used to visit with to visit us and he to a degree has been trying to make passes on my sister and yeah so but he had a German girlfriend I him I knew so I made with them deals for what they tried to do everything to make it easy for me and from there I went to to this was only border of Holland in Germany the needle manufacturer with whom by far we have done business who was very a big part of our volume and I unusually was successfulness of a first trip to cement The Three Corner points what I wanted to to hold and I went back and this gave me a lot of Courage was this your first trip to Germany yeah yeah what was the environment like very pleasant I loved the order what they have had I love the the education what I met in the people yeah and I felt that they are culturally far more advanced with the polls and I liked it to be friend with you I got to know the the importance of titles over the because I saw when people registered in the hotel I went as a young boy into a hotel register so I gave my name that over there I saw other people came so they raised after I am the director of this and this and I am this they spelled out a whole literally of titles so I already learned one thing that titles are important important thing in just in little by little I learned the habits of the country's country and the way of living in the I checked in in the to the most luxurious hotels or this because this is the place I decided to go or that I had to drop out from school but I told myself I am going to invent until for me a a an University of practical life through traveling and I did I learned on on all all my travel I tried to made contacts with Jewish families too I was once in a family but they took me and on an evening Saturday evening on a then on a dance for Jewish Youth and I learned how they behaved what was their flat what would I came in in an environment not just I went to the country to do business I learned how the country lives and how people behave and although those things and what kind I learned to think what gave me another thing in my life I learned how to use social contact for business and this was important my social contacts have opened up for me the doors in Italy out to the president for my studying the University of life it will travel I use this as an important factor and if with premeditation what I feel true now that this is more important video theoretically sitting in school and and studying a book of History this I could do on my own by reading I read very slow but I read Torah because I have a little dyslexia and this makes me studying not to read and I do studying so I in my memory was good so I tell you that the the my life went through with a self-created university in a cell's created way of study in school for instance where I was still sixth grade I was for me after I started I had my my governor was it a joke I could do in a month this would decrease that in a year because I have this corner who was very clever who could help me so first for instance mathematics I could do in a in a month this is what was so I used to not to work in school rather work at home with my with my government when you were in Germany what was the political environment like the political environment was not even in Jewish families to a degree so dangerous which is a real has been they have tried to fool themselves that this is only a political thing what will disappear what did you see I have seen the same things they were pleasant to me the present in business in the companies what I have been in touch have been very liberal for instance what we represented there was a part of Poland what was more German with polish for the polls have got then Wilson has partitioned the Eastern Europe so Germans have been in the same business these Germans didn't want to do business with me they wanted to do direct with the German company and this German company has a refused to do business with them they meant that they should go through us that we are the general representative and they will not do business with them when you were in Germany did you ever experience any anti-semitism no no [Music] Pleasant socially and I don't did not experience I experience only a terrible nationalism what Hitler has injected in the in the brains of the Germans for instance when Hitler took over Austria I was in Berlin and I was in the biggest hotel in I was sitting in the diving room and consuming and I saw how the German people industries from the higher class with what kind of they they have greeted themselves that the answer was down in Australia was ours with a feeling of Conquering the world this gave me a very important mind I of course I was in Germany after the Crystal Light yeah and I know that the Germans are making this kind of anti-Semitic that I knew but I personally with the business of what I dealt did not feel it they they wanted to export and they tried to avoid any kind of difficulties but people came forbidden for him for bit for business to import from Germany with remeditation I saw this this side show so I was four times a year in Germany I never I never felt this I was in Germany about four weeks broke out what did you learn what did you think was happening to the Jews in Germany I didn't feel it so but I went from Germany we do we did business in France I went to France and I met with business that who received me royally I was the when Chevalier came the first time on the B on this stage I was of the show in the in the theater in Paris this time of course this made on me a tremendous impression because the difference between Poland and in the France or Italy I was in Italy and I my last stop was London I came to London not knowing English at all but I read it because we had a connection in this business in in London and I meditated to a good hotel and I stayed overnight and I remember one thing what I have I didn't know English and I did not know how to pronoun pronounce reading in English so the the business but with whom I was wanted to call was on the com on the commercial Road commercially if I pronounced in the way how you pronounce in Polished in German in English you would pronounce it commercial so I went down and asked the domain on the hotel how I go to the commercial to the commercial he said I don't know a strip like this I stopped to policemen it asks us that I go to the commercial Road I start the taxi driver and he didn't know where this come finally I stopped the men on the street and he saw that so so he said you mean the commercial Road and he opens up my mind I went to a taxi driver and he took me to the place of the commercial this this to this point I was ignorant in the English language but when I was in England I already know and I was convinced that the war was broken down because the afternoon papers with the headlines dancing is this and dancing they wrote they will walk in and all those things and I in the hiding time and all this I always were thinking why I have not frustrated like his losses but I went back because my mother was a winner and I saw that this is I cannot leave her my dad my sister from a point of I knew that this is coming but from one point of obligation I could not leave them in stay in England this this was my last trip to to Germany to France to Wooden I saw it in France certain equipment to a businessman and I shipped the equipment before broken after the war when I came to to Munich I went to France I will tell you how and I collected this was an honest man he paid me for this Christmas had there been any discussions at home when you were in Warsaw about the rise of the Third Reich yeah my brother was against thinking that something serious is going to be I remember a big discussion when the Olympic in Berlin has been and I was for it that we have to take it seriously that the mentality of the Germans are getting in in the mood of the Nazis and people didn't want to believe people saw it but they did this was so horrible that they don't want they have refused to receive reality in my last trip to jam trips to Germany I started to smell the reality I saw the attitude of the populace in this world and I saw that my friend with whom I had the business who was making passes to my sister who had the German girlfriend for years this German girlfriend wants his girlfriend for about 10 years and this was like a marriage among them and he was accused against her will from a Russian chant good for having agent this is the law was called Russell and he was put into the house so this gave me the opening that I came close and the street what there used to be was a Jewish trade grenadier's brother they remain then they renamed after the guy whom they accused in burning the parliament in Berlin host vessel this will say no nothing and all this I give you the details the sanctions what put in my mind and I took it serious more with the people around me and also when you were in Germany did you ever see any political parades not big ones but I saw the variant the it's the the SR group this uh and they said this out was the group what they told took from the populist the assessments the young people put in India because but I was very I had girl German girlfriends I used to go out with them and they did not make any remarks you you understand it's beautiful very pleasant very very nice socially he conducive I have to admit that I I liked my company India in Germany and this helped me what was your life like after the Germans attacked Poland it was a horrible thing to be during the week when they walked into the to Poland and they started as an example made Walsall that they wanted Poland capitulate they demanded in they bombed the town 24 hours bombing buildings and you saw building coming down from top to the other to the to the bottom a a mountain of of bumped things and uh we have been going from from building to building to say with the family together in the in in the in the cellars and all those things nothing to buy no food the everything stopped and we saw the first signs of the terrible they started to catch Jews on the street in making work for their household needs for cleaning up a building what was not completely ruined in order they should be able to make their Police Headquarters and they have designated a part of Warsaw the Germans to the poll where they expelled the Poland even only German in the called use to to do the manual work on the streets in in the trunks in this in the some even did not come back home from a day of work I I was only once called on the on a straight homework I was caught and they took me to a railroad station where there had there have been bus cars from with from four calls we're going to take a break now and resume in a moment foreign this is tape number four interview with Leon Jolson March 19 1998. you were describing the first week with the bombings and the occupation of Warsaw of course the occupation was bad because all of a sudden all stalls closed bummed out most of Warsaw a lot of people with injuries a lot of people have lost their their Apartments their place of living Paul's and Jews the whole populace of Warsaw and they started a struggle the Germans Army started gradually to come in and take and for the Civil Wars over in the buildings what are have been habitable in around Warsaw and started a problem for Jews Jews have been afraid to go out from their homes to go out from their hiding places because they caught them in in in for work I I explained to you that I was caught one times I was taken to a railroad station I was giving uh how do you call it a thing to put in call from the back scar shovel not a shovel uh a basket a basket from the bank's car and they wanted me to bring it out but not empty it on the bottom but on the top of the Cove what already was about one uh story high so in this was slippery to go up on vertical and ground it up and if you did not do it they have been hollowing in some people couldn't do it so they hit them you know so I went through the day and I came home from cold you can understand black on my face in Black opinion and from this sun they and I was very careful already not to go out on the street the moment I did hear Strokes of this sound I used to run in to where building on a last floor to to let them go through and I was successful being so careful that I wasn't caught anymore how did they know you were Jewish they knew the Jews were scared in viscosity has been in their eyes and they have been running away so they know in the pollax and not knowing the Germans used to say I'm not you I know you you know so they called you something in the beginning did you ever have to wear anything that identified you as a Jew yes after a few weeks supposed to do all the the uh the order that all Jews have to Veil a white uh band with the Zion on it this was the wall survey of marking the Jews because in other places they put a yellow horse Zion but most of us are blue and white and I build it but I did not in the beginning I did not I didn't know what to do I saw that bad things are coming I started to to listen to the underground station on the radio came in an order that all Jews have to bring into a point all the radius they cannot have all trolls later couldn't have a radio no communication in the beginning they left the telephones functioning and the kehilla made contact with a office for contact the the contacts television and they used to let them bring in some food and start they started to cook lunches and dinners very medium with a piece of bread and handed out to Jews who came in have to admit that after a few weeks I I have been hiding food in a lot of places flowers to bake all those things that we started to have food in the building what we lived has survived we cleaned it out and my mother was in the building and we and as we cleaned it up some people who worked for us started to come back for working we started to see if this will be possible to function in this in the course of this this was the first few weeks Germans started to come asking for sewing machines in conversing through to them in trying to find out what conditions are I saw that the further Masters who were sent the worst vote in the conditions knew what when I'm in Poland and in Warsaw and I so smelled out that the Army wanted to use the voso Jewish populace for their use for uniforms for shoes for clothing and in the conversation I fell down to that historically the upper echelon remembers how Napoleon was defeated in Russia because of the lack of clothing and lack of main thing what things and I was meditating over this and I was meditating how to make use of it of it some what came in the Germans have been Germans who came from Germany in some have been Paul's who were of German descent they were rather false deutschen they call them they were rather ride of Faith adopted in a special card with special privileges with privilege to arrest people to to take whatever they want from Jewish homes from this and I I saw that every day brings a new bad thing not a but toward the green the first two months tip this has normalized to a certain degree that Paul started to want to merchandise from the Jewish neighborhood from Jewish Merchants who survived some of the merchandise and the the Jewish life this became very brutalized in very disordered the Jewish Mafia took over the the the the the whole life of of the of the Jewish neighborhood it was always don't think that all Jews have been angels in Warsaw you had the Jewish thieves you have you had huge honors from bordellos you had you had a normal Jewish people that said you have scientists you had doctors you had all kinds of people and the loyal class who have been used to unruly underground things to call the police was not police you could nothing the the strength of your hand has governed governing your life okay for instance in certain businesses they put up posts and if somebody sold something a part of the sale has to be given to this guy who was staying in virgin that nothing should come out from the business and you couldn't do nothing the police was not police you know all those things the gimina has organized a by the order of the Germans a Jewish police and they gave him heads with blue band seal and some prominent lawyers became commissioners of the Jewish police in digimina but they ordered some of the people have been honest people and they became Commissioners in order to save them life some of them have been underworld people who have been on the service to the job you you understand some of the Jews have wanted good life they started to be on the services of the Germans some of Jewish beautiful girls who have been actress citizen who have been singers in this became girlfriends of the Germans they wanted a good life in in some hotels you was one hotel Britannia Coco on the novelipe where you find the highest officers of the El gestapo and you find the most beautiful Jewish girls and the and Jewish guys who were on the services of the German and you could find the finest meals the finest wine the final champagne in the best music yes you have to talk to true that this of course this was a great minority but this this minority was on the top was on the bottom and the bottom was very bad I will give you an example how the condition but of this order were I had connection with the Swedish Embassy in Warsaw the department or the the commercial attache was a very close friend of a friend of mine and we got him to agree that he should allow to the Swedish warehouses to take a part of my merchandise and we hired big holes and veins because you had the very few trunks then there was a and we send out to this magazine scenes about thousands new song machines the best ones and I knew that in case things of that I will get along with this commercial he didn't want for me anything to be friends with he he told me that he's doing it a suggestion of decency yeah all of a sudden after two months come disguise who have been the guys who have had the the horse and veins and they asked me to get to give them a sum of money otherwise they will go to the gestapo and tell them that the merchandise what are in the warehouses of the swim are Jewish merchants what do you do in a case like this this was losing the merchandise is one but they called you on the gestapo and you from the Gestapo very few people came back I went forever for advice to a lawyer what we used to have a business lawyer a very intelligent a very fine man so he says Liam there's no war there's no what can I tell you what can I tell you I don't know what to tell you this this is terrible that I am not a giver up I knew the Polish head from the criminal position I knew him from certain dealings the Germans when they came into Warsaw couldn't didn't bring in a whole criminal police from Germany and hopefully they bring it brought in a few officers German who took the charge of the criminal police but they left the polls who have been on the top and they have been on the order of the German police so I went to the head of the Polish polio police San Francisco I remember and I told him that I have a thing like this ask him what to do you know what he told me this cost five thousand dollars for five thousand dollars all this guy will be arrested they will get an order from biggest laboratory but they will be sent for the fall into in the interviewing but they will never come back from the interview in this is how this was this kind of you lived in this kind of situation no law no decency nothing what can be in I saw the time is little by little coming to the point what I foresaw the what is going to be I told you I moved out from my apartment with my where I lived with my mother to another apartment but I lived and my friends used to congregate there did you have to move will you compelled to move I was not compared I felt that I wanted to have my own apartment I could do and I in this apartment I could do certain things that were not legal according to in order to keep myself for instance you couldn't have for yourself an apartment you could have for four people a room the most to sleep but I wanted privacy and I wanted and I did not go by the law this I saw that the law should not exist for me I should do things what I feel is saving me so I take to took this apartment in form one room I made a tailor shop I put a Malik in in a sewing machine a tablet existing after in the other room I made a bedroom so I I had some people with me about I had only a housekeeper and and I lived in the apartment and I organized myself a little social life all my friends used to congregate in my apartment because I was the only one who had a place for myself what happened to your Financial assets after the Germans came in the financial asset my my mother still with my brother still lived in the apartment but we had in the finance law that was in some people came to work too and I right away for song what is going to go on I told you I said not that I send out to the Swedish a certain asset I sold to Paul's what I could fall Barn prices and I opened up a store in the Polish neighborhood of Warsaw in sent to this store a certain amount of my asset in took a Paul as a manager of the play place and that he should manage the business and I thought he was a son of a technician with whom my father used to do business very very well and his sister married a Jewish fellow who was the head of the government travel of its office and I thought that this environment what this guy has been and his father that he can be reliable but after a while I saw that we send out merchandise nothing comes back and I wanted to see what is going on so I got myself a permit to go out from the ghetto to the Polish neighborhood and I came in so I saw him walking out and he in in right away when he came back a Polish policeman came in and he asked me what I am doing here and this neighborhood with a bandwidth so I said I have a permit who comes I wanted to see a friend he did not count on it that I have of an official permanent from the guest rapper to go out but I already saw with what this man smells that he's a dishonest guy that I will not go in that he wanted me to be arrested arrested that I shouldn't be able to control I'll just give you the certain facts about that what has happened when was the ghetto established in Warsaw the ghetto was established by 1941. the building of the ghetto started in four distilled which took about a year till they evolved up the whole thing who built the wall Jews build the walls under the supervision of the ignina and the Jewish police and the Germans also provides that too and they made openings on the wall the German police polish police and Jewish police and only through this opening merchandise could come food come in Mercedes could come out and people could go out to work in German establishment and come back to through it under the supervision of the Germans of the poles and of the Jews one of this opening was on the zelazna in lechner said we will come to it I will tell you what it said this is a very important factor and as I lived in those time I started to have connections with the with the Germans who used to come the Quarter Master and I spelled out what they come and what they want I smelled right away out that they want to move divisions to the north to to prepare themselves to be closer to the Russian border I knew for sure that in spite of The Pact what they make that this is a falsehood that they want to go into Russia to that this is the and I already saw that they are preparing themselves with clothing to grow into Russia because they remembered because the father muscle came with a platoon to Warsaw to prepare habitation for a division so what did he do he looked from not our bombed out buildings he looked for equipment to make a kitchen as much as he can not to they didn't want to send from Germany because this was too valuable the way the German records for the front for them they looked to equipment to mate and make a a rushing facility in a cleaning facility because you have 7 000 people in a division you have to clean the clothing you have to change the under clothing the shoes have to be reptiles uniforms are torn so you need a household in a household need washing facilitate cooking facility sewing facility and shoe making facilities this is a big thing to care for seven thousand people with all those things and I saw that I can fit in with privileges having Thrones in owned them in this point you understand I smelled it out after a while I have to tell you that this came about 2025 for the Masters like this some civilians some military guys in this 25th a small percentage have been decent people with whom I could who enjoyed to sit down with me and spoken their language and they couldn't find a conversation like me and from these people I learned a lot for instance came a guy at Fordham master who was in civilian a professor of Music in the aachen university and after talking with him he told me I am not going to grab from you the machine and not pay for it I want you to know I am told to gratefully but I am not doing this because I know what Humanity means and what honest means is what he told me I want to pay you how much you want for the use of the machine I told my superiors they have to give me the money I otherwise I don't go to say this so I told him listen even we move to another division to another place I will bring you back your ownership and this is how this was he used to bring me money I told him the money is not useful to me I told him that I want coffee I want to and when they moved the division closer to the Border one day for 30 in the morning trucks came in and borrowed me back the machines came another guy from Austria so he wants and he told me too I want to pay you so I told him I don't I cannot buy nothing for the money I won't bring me food so he said what do you want to afford so I told him I want sugar I want coffee I won't be a tea my mother needs oranges and fruit bring me so he says okay every month I will bring you a package and he did in conversation when I started to invest with him came out why he is doing it he was working for a Jewish big clothing firm in Vienna and he came into this job as a young boy and he almost grew up like a member of this Jewish Family you understand and he told me Hitler cannot tell me what Jews are because I know what the Jews are I grew up in this family you understand and he to a point that he needed threat and all kinds of things so he says please tell the other people if they have hidden some this they shouldn't be afraid of me because everybody is afraid of me and I cannot get anything water I will bring the money or food whatever they need after and if they don't want it is not enough they have the right not to give it to me and I did it for him and he kept his worth so you see from these people I found a lot a lot out what the policy is what is going to be you know you understand that the problem is that the percentage of these people was only about one or two percent from the global P Germans okay one words wanted to kill me almost but I have very much learned for them informed and I learned how they changed their character I told you I was once when they came in to Warsaw on the balcony in our place before I moved to my own place and across the street from us where the wholesale big clothing contextile businesses so I see trunks coming we're going to take a break now and resume in a moment you you understand but you want stories this is tape number five interview with Leon Jolson March 19 1998. time came then Hitler decided to come to vote so the first time to see how successful he he was in the war in the Blitzkrieg what they called and with him came a lot of military personnel and a lot of gestapo personnel and I saw Crocs coming in to the neighborhood where I lived and stopping in the side street and out of the drops the sergeant lieutenants captains [Music] the Gestapo police and they all went to this street across the street where we had the business for all the wholesale textile places have been what do I see that they are breaking off the doors and going into these places and each one walks out with a piece of fabric for suits a piece of fabric full dresses or and they cannot carry it so much they each one took they stopped news to help them carry it to them stroke and I my mind started to work then what has happened how did I knew that the Germans are thieves or rubbers my Outlook of Germany has completely changed in this moment I I just cannot see the transition in my brain all of a sudden I kept them in high in in a high spirit in all of a sudden I see that they are the lowest of the Lord or what has happened and this gave me a source of meditation I came in meditating to our souls that the Hitler the magledi this speech what he has made what is in my in my mind when he the war finish he said what do we want from the world we want a Layman's realm only we want to have you know food and of clothing and of materials for our Factory this is what we want the only thing what he is not mentioned but we wanted and we are going to steal it from somebody in order to have it and this was a theory what he has implanted in the people stealing keys and robbing is a legitimate thing after my meditation I walked away with this then I walked away with this thought I told myself I have to be with Hitler I have to go in his line to be a winner I have to start teaching Germans how to steal in how to enrich themselves and in this way to sabotage them because I came to them I conclusion that to live and to survive is not enough you have to do something and to do something you have to find a way how to be able to bring him down to a point to help him lose the ball and after this thoughts I came and I made a plan footballs so and simple but this was so easy I implemented it so easy and I took such chances that I wouldn't I cannot believe now what I did in the meantime I moved to a place on the Sona Street where I had my own apartment where I have had neighbors around me and I started to be very lonely because the curfew starts at six o'clock couldn't go out on the street you at all Jews couldn't walk out from the building between after six or sometimes seven so during the day during the evening Thursday evening so in this planted in me I thought the first time that maybe marriage is an is an they are to outgo from this lonely New Life in the new place where I moved by myself I have arranged somehow a club of my of all my friends male and female twice a week want to be you they all came an afternoon to my house in some State Overnight but it was after seven o'clock he couldn't go already home and a social life that I started to build with these people in the ghetto in the terrible times we have prepared some poems to read on in the evening with some jokes apropos the whole story of lie of life and in the middle we have I have occupied an apartment what was illegal but I was not entitled to have for myself a bedroom a bedroom with a living room and a dining room in a mate's place so I I told you I made the part of it at Taylor shop and because the controllers what came from the from the universe to control that were all boys in my age all boys in in any state so they come they saw what is this but they saw me though they went home and didn't do nothing well what was their job to control if the apartments are taken up legally more minimum fall for a room a kitchen even considered with responsibility you understand was a job with the human rock desirable it was desirable and but to a degree I feel was not fulfilled willingly in a way what has helped the German I don't recuse that he was on the on the German that he was a studio he worked for them but I accuse him of being being not a strong man with a low short Vision he taught by giving in that he will save people and this was the opposite and in the same time when the social life was in my apartment and among the the females who used to come up on my social art was Anya and Anya had a boyfriend before me who unfortunately has died very tragically he this was a typhus epidemic and a lot of people young people died it was no help nothing and she wanted to get married very very much and the only thing What attracted me that she was very open she told me that she wants to get married that she wants to marry me you know and as I told you this was a time where psychologically this comes at some psychological preparation till the person act I was psychologically prepared and the circumstances prepared me psychologically to the Italy India from the times and I decided to marry her because she was so up means or French about it despite it I knew a lot of females in those time her friends who she does not know till now that they have made passes I should marry them her best friends and we lived together in this apartment what I had and it's supposed to be built and up a certain way of life for the circumstances money was no problem for me I could have everything because people could survive I knew not prolonged if they had the sewing machines because the German Factory registered the MS workers and with the register or two workers they didn't have to go to the um plots you understand so I could sell for any prize my sound machines what I had and I this was in a nice I told you I have manipulated saw that I gave the Germans as many machines as they were as they want but they gave me coverage that I could keep machines and sell and do the business route I want so money was not a problem for me I'm I and if I had if you had money in ghetto you could obtain everything because it was modeled in from luxury but for very big money and I was locking the on the time that I could afforded it an opposition of afford you any other privileges of living did you have things other people didn't have I told you I had the Privileges of living in an apartment for myself but later on I saw that this privileges are going to and to be diminished because I found out that this was true that the ghetto was decreased and the apartments became outside together you understand and then I made the change I knew Carl George Schultz from before the war the factory were three grabbed from the Jewish owners where my clients from before the wall I knew the factory like my ten finger I did I delivered the machines I delivered the the equipment everything and I knew that Carl George Schultz is was a poor man with a small Vision who cannot manage a factor of 2 000 people and he knew me that I can do it and I showed him away how he can enrich himself to a point what is unbelievable how how did we do it the factory need to get raw material to make clothing me you need a wool or yarn or the in this cave was one central place in the in Europe under the German Army the betrayed him something Berlin who had all these in whomever they gave order orders they gave her permission to him to buy this on the on the official Market he that orders to make underwear sag sumitu to make gloves to make so so he got orders to buy the of course they didn't they try to supervise that they send in from Germany textile Engineers from chemnitz me female and males that they were supposed to be this but he was the commissioner he was the head of it he took in polls as direct because that you couldn't be in a job of a supervisor or an executive and you could only be be a physical worker and the salary was by the SS made up what is physical records can be made make and Schultz has to pay the salaries to the SS in the the SS for this service delivered food the immigrating for the money what the workers have obtained and they have collected this was the the the debate this was done when I got in in short song after a while that I can do it what I told him because I saw that rules and laws and honesty is completely disappearing I had my brother with me on the in the factory my brother was more of an idealist for me and he took power the charge to give out needles spare parts and all those things and we had German technicians over there from large German from from Slovakia from students they have been the most cleverest in technicians the not the Germans or German the Germans from Czechoslovakia from so that you know what this is and they wanted to they saw that money they wanted to to make money so they took for my their needles and parts and took it out and sold it on the free market so my backpack I used to go crazy he says I am not going to give them they steal it and I was in argument with him I told him they steal from us from a formative Hitler stole that from Jerusalem from Poles from all over Europe and they steal it from Hilton what do you care common law says that you are all right if you steal from us from a thief you are not liable because this is the law of what we had in the common law that you cannot come for Relief to a quote unless you have Clean Hands this is the Jewish law this is the common law if the other from whom you stole it stole it you are free so I used to tell them what do you care and he as I made friends he made the embassy couldn't give up that they are stealing him he was right but I wanted them to see which brother was this to my oldest brother Abraham yeah you understand this robot this is I in lose them to steal it specially induce them because I knew that this is the way that they will be dependent on me you and because I knew where to sell the raw material because it was a world when un people needed a pair of sacks people needed a court and if you you had to know or need the raw material to in this were poles who used to be in a small way before they have been looking for the raw materials in a thing a kilo what used to cost if we gathered from the official way to Marks you could get from them 450 marks you you can understand the the difference the difference what this is this was three 200 times more we paid for it where did you sell it it was near the factory was a open market like a horse over there was the black market where I knew people were there I didn't sell it I didn't go I only organized for them because I was too dangerous [Music] they used to bring but how can you get it out from the factory you have Germans uh the uh the the Vermont to who are on who are supervising nothing should come out the show of the government in everything this was dangerous and this had to be you know first of all I made an organization of polls whom I knew that they are honest people so it was very difficult and this pulls whom I knew but did not disappoint me I have to admit it was a small percentage secondly I decide everybody makes money ever was so much money that this is enough forever money for the commissioner for himself if you grant for that something what caused two zlotis 450 and you could send out two trucks they brought the money back in releases you understand and the Jews wanted this money why did you still had diamonds and had all kinds of things but they have been hiding but they wanted to go out on the ghetto and save themselves so in order to go out they needed some money with them to to be able to pay off a policeman to buy food so they glad there was nobody who wanted her to buy from them the diamond because nobody needed it so if somebody could bring and give them this money what they want you could get as much as you want I bought for this German about 120 the most luxurious watches 50 batches on each and I vote for his girlfriends diamonds what you can a mink codes Jewish manufacturers covered up a little bit and they have been looking to go out from the ghetto to say everybody knows so it was not difficult to get to this because everybody wanted to sell that because he couldn't take it with him you you understand and here this was the modus vivenda How I Live of course if they brought the back the money I got the money I gave it to the to them so what did I do I will tell you later I came this the Germans sent in uh textile Engineers so this was a woman a textile engineer from chem it's a very fine person but she helped double on the actions to select Jews to the the the ideological I was thinking I talked to her I talked to her like her to like a friend she did not realize that she's doing something wrong by obeying the order by bringing together a group of you of news and send them to she didn't realize you understand me but he did it but because I was so convenient for me she do did everything what she could for instance she was beautiful and she used to have a very intimate relationship with his shoes and with the assistant for his I fear for the whole world of District who was that this girl who was the who worked in the factory who was the administrator yeah so she for me went overnight and she brought me up from him at her mid to go out free from the ghetto back and forth who who was this that she got the permit from from the head of the Gestapo on the District of Warsaw she was very intimate what was his name I cannot remember I cannot remember remember and she used to bring me over sometimes both forever was not possible to bring from an individual but for a group so she used to bring me a permit for 10 people to take with me so I was free always to go in and out from the ghetto on the 120 people on the 400 000 people got this permit because in this verse descent only from the people from the udenrad who were in contact of exchanged the food and all those things things in I got the permanent through this woman what did you do with the other permits the other pyramid sometimes I took with me people friends out but this was so dangerous if you go then out from this the polls used to have first of all how this is interesting for audio how could that you go out it was the world up you had only three places for you covered under smallers used to smuggling so how did it happen it's really like a new language a genre on the entrances where Jewish police polish politics in gestapo German police the Jewish police would assigned to this place with a clever guys in their right away on the post made the Germans and the polls in a point that they wanted to make money everything was the the atmosphere was all dead the distance so a Jew wanted to go out so he went to the Jewish policeman and he told told him I want to be out this I want to go on the Aryan side so he told him to cost five thousand fortune and this was a they they were afraid to say it or this was a child on how they said it so you know at Jude backs about this is so they um so they told him the truth though this Jewish policy policeman asked him did you advice riddle play for the adjudice Box you have to throw each money they should play so he says yes the youth box will play how much playing playing so it's not five thousand people if he says yes 5 000 playing this and this I will be on this point from the 5 000 slot is the Jewish guy took thousands lots of it and they divided with the fall between themselves the Polish guy took to a thousand Lots in the Germans to three five thousand and they let them out he came in and they just never want to know that he went out from this it was a big danger why the polls knew that Jews want to go out from ghetto though they stayed there outside to catch the guy because they knew if the guy goes out he will have some money with him new boots in the wintertime good clothing so they catched him and they took away from him this was the most dangerous thing because they put him out as he go otherwise they even and they'll let them over snack at the naked they killed the people what went out this way and they became known on polish as malzovniks what is malts months is fat that they are taking off the fat from the people they live in born wise when they go out this was the biggest horrible things they did not touch me why because they knew already that I go back and forth and I am and I have a permit that they that I'm not afraid if they will call Jewish police or this so I could go out then I once I Anya was sick I went out even without that permit you need to take her to hospital and they didn't stop me because they were used to my face to go out back and forth it's very difficult for a person to understand this and all this idea came to me by looking out through the window when they started to grip I saw that I have to put my mind in a different the Germans what I knew what I remembered are not existing Hitler has educated a new Germany and this was the the Germany what he educated and I have to take advantage of it and I did I did took advantage of this that I the Polish underground knew already that I am the guy who can make money whatever they got not enough money from from England from the Polish government so they to to keep an underground unique to allow the money money is a very important fact so they knew that the money man I am we're going to take a break now and resume in a minute now you understand already you haven't got a you haven't got an interview like this because few people this is tape number six interview with Leon Jolson March 19 1998. then I lived after my marriage on the solna street with Anya we had a neighbor across the the door his name was Bornstein he was a Jewish policeman a strong tall man men and he had a little boy about five years old in a street life and we became very close friends from living in the same building one day this policeman disappeared he didn't come come back he was his YouTuber on the um plot where the cuddle cars have been filled with Jews and what has happened the German officer who was in charge of sending out the transport hasn't got enough use to fill up and he used to be very reprimented if we send anti-cost because he wasted energy so he took the policeman from the um took away from them they had this policeman and put them in in the cars and send them to tribulent and nobody know where he that they are but what has happened one day after a few months this guy is showing up his house is already outside the ghetto I didn't believe that his wife he couldn't find to what has happened The Crucible such a husky strong men in troubleinki he was unsigned to a Commando to take out the gold the money from the packets what the people left before they went in to the crematorium to the bed where they have the guests and he they this Commander has put the clothing in order and put it in bundles in the money and they loaded on cars to believe to send out he was thinking about his child in about his his wife so one night when he has been loading it he loaded himself into a car in the middle of the car running I suppose that the guy who has been watching cats was asleep he jumped out on the car this this could be about 55 miles from Warsaw already and by foot he walked in back to Warsaw and somehow he was he knew the tricks because he was a policeman himself he smuggled himself into the ghetto for whom did he look for me because he has knew that I lived across his door till the last minute so I must know what is what has happened to his wife and his child and he found me of course if we talked I knew that his my wife is not alive that she was already she went with the transport to the same time link where he was so if he gave me a living description what is happening with all the transports in trability after this conversation with him I decided under no circumstances will I go alive anywhere if I have to go I will go they will I will be already dead what did he tell you about triplinger he told me how the transport came in the train how the people were hoarded out from the train how they were moved to take off their clothes and put it in a bond bundle from this bundle of uh or they put they send them in for a bed and this bath has already had already Outlet of the Cyclone gas what they let out and they overgassed to that and from there they put them into the crematorium to burn the corpses he told me how this was do you do with that information I told it to my friends my friends didn't want to believe that's why I have I think that I influenced some people that they didn't go one guy is now alive whom I helped to go out on the factory in Argentina one is in Israel but I was angry of chanyakov that he knew about it I suppose I don't know and he didn't make it public he told said by comp the cooperating he will still be able to sell save some people because the moment you knew this you if you had some Inner Strength you just you can what will you go you will go on a travel car to be put in in a room with cyclone and be being brand banned this was my feeling from this moment on I knew that I will not go and I knew that my wife my my mother was with me my sister in my I I didn't have the connection but I told you that I went to Schultz after all those things and I got the connection with his girlfriend who was the girlfriend of people I was looking for it so they were taken to turblinki my my brother this brother the old one who was with the factor was with me in my younger sister till the last minute day after the the ghetto was closed after the uh gave them out he they he knew that they have money so he wanted to wrap their money but I was so careful that they didn't know where I am because I saw that strong people honest people won't couldn't hold out the Gestapo tortures and they gave out their closest people you'll tell yourself that you're a hero that you would never do this but this is not true tortures are making people do things what is unbelievable and I got the whole so I decided that even my brother and my sister will not know where I am what happened to them they were shot I know where in near the universe across the street where we lived there I saw a Paul told me that what has happened after the war did you ever witness any of the deportations yeah of course I would either what was that like this was a horrible thing the the Germans came into a district send up the Jewish police to the apartment knocked the doors everybody down everybody down down down who has made a move downstairs from the courtyard what was the dangerous they shot on this path I have seen people shooting and then they took him to the umsla clubs they marched them but what is in in lauded in the cattle in central this was the deportation I saw it with my eyes not one time one day they send everybody to the Miller Street and I went to the middle but then I was already in true sector and I so I ride away went back in the next day and I went in again to take out somebody but still I got this connection but I told you I was named and I saw the disconnection that the only thing is what I have to do with it is prepare myself for the last minute in what we had did I prepared I built three apartment houses with a pole who was a builder and he was a commandant in the Polish underground and the houses were built on the Renault under the a gentleman's agreement with them that I can use the place at the hiding places what was building in the houses four high-end hiding places we built two in one in one building in one in one in one of the hiding places is existing now and there is a sign on it for the after the war the city government put that here has been a Jewish Family saved himself I have the photograph even from the inscription you you understand and this is a good existing now I am going in a a woman lives there I am supporting her because I wouldn't like the polls don't I want that they should make from this historical place to show for history if a Jew has survived how he has survived my mother died in with me and I have buried her on the Christian Cemetery in the polls wanted me to take it out of the Jewish cemetery because for materialistic he they wanted the place because this cemetery is now the principal cemetery and they get from a person who wants this place a Millions lots of lotus I refused only because I wanted to show that a Jew not only that he couldn't deliver said you but he couldn't die I said you thank you what was your wife Anya doing during all this time my wife Anya till I had to [Music] to go out already the same shoes I have to go by in the last moment he gave me permits to stay to clean out the factories but in the last moment he got scared that if I will go to the camp I will start talking and I know too much what he has done and how much money he has made and he decided to kill me in he had about 10 people like me what with whom he had special connections so he killed most of them one woman one boy from one man is now and I'm in contact with her in in Miami and all of a sudden a pole a director what I told you but I was not in such good relationship he was always jealous of me because he knew that he cannot make a move if I don't accept it came I don't know this was something from all from the almighty and told me listens Josephson you he decided to to kill you move he will be here in about 15 minutes and I saw that he is serious I had a hiding place in the factory because I can stay till tomorrow and I'll tell you what I did in this Factory so I went into the hiding place and he came in and he looked for me and he looked to a girl who was mice at an acquaintance and she worked with me because she knew that I knew her and she has with me a relationship he looked on me and I he couldn't find me and I this was the moment I went out in Anya came to the place where I built this apartment house where I had the hiding place I went there in to go but how did I go in is it this is something what is because the atmosphere saw that if everybody looked you in in your face who you are in a polls recognized Jews German knot so what did I do I looked for that I had to pull a friend he was married to a beautiful Polish Girl so I told myself I called him up and I thought Lila was her name listen I have to borrow you Lila for a couple of hours let her come here and here arrogant the rest to the point I took out my new suit over there and dressed myself in like two love birds I in the middle I walked out with them and they took the police this and they couldn't believe that two people like me are just now in this how I went out you you understand where was where was Anya all this time Anya was all the time as a on false paper as a a Polish Christian in the in certain places what I find found for help people other money for the room and in a in a lot of places she was naive she she did not know that she surrounded with you since he thought that this is that these are poles no jail Germans but somehow she saw and then she came right away she knew where I have built the hiding places and we got together on different exercise threat on a high report and I was sitting the first month not doing nothing I I wanted that the burning ghetto shoots go down the Germans March thinning they have demolished all the houses were burned and then I started still to make contacts with people in order to go on and I I had over there already my radio equipment my cocktail because life I would never go this was the I had enough equipment to demolish the whole building in In This Moment I had a revolver and I have about everything because the underground made use of it too with me disrupled my arrangement did you leave the ghetto prior to the uprising when did you get in the artrisings the factory what we had through my connection got a permit to make a branch right outside the ghetto and this night I asked Anya to come to the other Factory I had over there a little apartment I was I had everything I had altered in I was there with a group of workers but I took out from the main Factory to the satellite Factory and I am in the over the the overnight in the morning five o'clock in the morning somebody Hollows he also the other Schultz came and he asked me to I just was in in my shade I run down and he tells me I have an order we are finished cannot anymore function in water they have to move the third Factory to travel near near Lublin this is near this campaign he I got 22 permissions for people to stay with me to Dismount the machinery and to load that happened to take to to turn Nikki so he asked me what do you need for your family so I told him I need my brother my sister and my mother and I need for me I need for so he counted one two three gave me photos so my mother was over there and I took her out to the satellite Factory I went with cars back in for 4 20 to Dismount the the factory resended to travel to travniki some friend of mines came through so it's right away a business the Germans took money from Jews to get them among the clothes and among the Machinery out from the ghetto something so those conditions but no not to describe to him I cannot to describe it to you to you and I saw what is going down in the ghettos burning I never fought in the in the ghetto I saw what is going down I helped them if they needed to bring in uh materials I could bring it in there they knew that I could that they can rely that this is going to be because I had a party from the satellite people of 100 people going under I gave I each won a little part and we I came in inside I put it together this uh for instance this world this was special names for a revolvers was called in this time a chimney you understand and you was called a trick because they didn't want to see see yourself having sex this was created a language of a German for the ghetto what were you bringing from the outside into the ghetto love you only sometimes equipment for the underground that's all and who gave it to you on the outside well polls they used to have people who bought it for them who took fortunes of money which group of the underground is but the biggest part about the Socialists the Moon so it's not so big as say historically presented for the very difficult fight and they had very poor equipment no help from the Polish Underground what were you able to see or learn about the uprising from the other side I was seated they could see the the fires both are going down in the indicator could you hear anything no couldn't hear the only thing I have heard remarks both were terrible from Paul's but ramad let them burn up the Jews over them with the mice and with the insects what they have how long did you stay in Warsaw on the Aryan side till the end of the Polish Underground I was taken out from also with Anya when they took out all the food the Polish underground from the home Army and the home Army wanted to kill me the same because they this the the whole mommy had the difficult had different uh detachments some have been neutral then some have been so anti-semitic that they have killed Jews during the unpolished uprising and and wanted attachment went after me how did you escape them very interesting thing you you know that if you are used to some some things you ear is getting attuned to it for instance I'm very attuned to anti-Semitism because I was exposed to it very much I was so exposed to being underground and to hiding into listen I have a nature when I am now in a group of people I listen from foresight I listen straight I listen on the side I listen on this side because this I developed for my life to bring the underground I saw I knew that the underground had a right to win the group what goes after Jews and I saw one guy of them when he saw me coming out when you come out after so many hour months from hiding places you look like a wild person pale you cannot walk root because I didn't wear shoes because I was afraid that somebody will listen to when I walk you understand so he or a ride of a smelled out that I am a Jew that I had to go out from my Underground and he let know this group this right Loop that here is a guy like me and I observed them and they observed and I I knew already that in another District they they shot the Jew so I observed them and I saw that they directly go after me I made in the cause of the underground friends with a Polish lawyer what was before the war the Attorney General of important in in Posner very intelligent guy very fine guy and we made jokes we got very friends friends and he saw too that they are grown comfortably so under his pushing me he I agreed to do something but he has advised me to do he advised me to do to go with him to the commandant of the underground for this part of Warsaw his name was he was a colonel ridwan in those times and we went up to his office with him and he told me I should let him introduce me and just I let him do so he told me told him so that you have a chance to go under a military court all over this record what is adjudicating you for to that because under your direction now people who survived this are being shot are being looked for and you know he says if the if the Polish government from Lublin because will come in you are going on this court and if they will come in from London because under your direction this people and you are responsible I will see to it that you will go on the report this Covenant changed us out and cried okay so he says I don't this is not my order so he said it's not your order please I want in writing that you are against shooting now people who survived and people who will do this will go under a military Court so he says I am from London forbidden to give anything in writing but I give you my officer's word of Honor that this man is not going to be done anything I will say to it but in writing I cannot give and he kept his word I saw the next day that this group who looked from is out how long did you remain in Warsaw after that about 10 days and then they took us to Germany and went to Anya and we went to a to a camp on a in a place where they had a distribution Camp to Germany and they divided men and women companion but in me I took again a chance I jumped out from this in in the men's companion I was I saw that I am in bad shape because I was an officer came also the four where I would be there in four months that who was a Jew in this in this fall that I was lucky that the other people didn't understand what this gestation want so he said that so he says you should all open your slacks in in and show if you are circumcised so they didn't understand what he wants I didn't understand what he won so I the first went down so he said no no not you should do it they should do it in this house I told you this was that in my survival I can only show on on God's destiny that are we're going to take a break now this is tape number seven interview with Leon Jolson March 19 1998. we were among the Germans came back into Warsaw the poles in the are in the uprising kept the part of also only for about 10 days two weeks the Russians stayed on the other side of the Vistula invaded only that the that the the Germans should kill them out the poles and then they will Mars them they let them stay and these Germans took out the the underground polish Army to from Warsaw to a railroads Depot and send them to Germany in marched in in trainings and in their March me and my wife in the trains I went from the men's party into the women's party as I told you and we were going to Germany as we were going to Gammon you know one more small station some girls from the Red Cross came with water they knew that nobody had the world of war dates so I got some water for my girl from the Red Cross back then I started to talk to her so I asked her if this is a chance to get lost from here so this girl encouraged me she says well definitely you should do it you know where you go you go to Germany you go right away to to a camp yugata so she encouraged me so I saw a German sitting with a with her rifle an old man that I jumped out from the from the train down and I saw that he is not reacting when I saw him not reacting I took Anya for his end and I pulled her out I was already to this point that I told her if she is not going to jump after me that she should live a note for me if he will survive on my mother's grave you understand and then like fools we went board down under a bench on this little station so empty I know this was already Twilight seven o'clock becomes uh the curfew the German patrols have been mainly on the Railroad Station because the Stalingrad was already under in those time and starting up fall not that they haven't got equipment for the course they haven't got the oil for for the and so this ride they have watched through the the stations and I knew here said I'd say come let's go and we started to go to to Farmers around there they should let us stay overnight and we went to three farmers and they recognized that we are Jews and they didn't let me stay overnight over there to default I already went in under the straw and they said didn't ask him and we said they were there and and I was scared like hell because the dog started to bark and here I see that with a carousene lamps they go out the farmers to see what is happening but then a miracle they didn't find us and they went in everything got fired and in the morning we walked out and thought I walked out I started to to take my memory where I should go I knew in this direction I had a customer appalled and I knew that he was a a honest man so I say let's walk to him and we walked to him as we walked the walking we had that he had a terrible thing his son was in the underground and he was receiving from England the packages for the underground Army receipts near here there near this little town they made a hidden little place to to throw it down into a land for for small planes and they called them and they showed them to his son so here I come into his house his son was shot several he was scared like that but he let us stay overnight in the morning he said that a woman who brings milk from a little village further that maybe she will know so she came and I started she didn't know but I didn't let her up we went after her to a very a village in a country what you didn't see anybody and over there I called the farmer a farmer but couldn't read them right but he was intelligent I had false paper Anya has bought today's paper I ever did he let me stay with him he let me stay with him and we stayed in this place till the zhukov's Army have marched into Poland so they marched through this Village and they took quarters for in this Village and in this Village this farmer I don't can I don't want to tell you stories about this in this Village I did I fell through a business I started to with the son of this son make vodka foreign because I saw that the that the farmers go Sunday to the bigger town by sport cats I told her I knew that this man whom I know is making the Vodka Nothing by so I bought from him this raw out alcohol and I made with him to vodka and salt and they didn't know what to do all of a sudden they paid they became rich people and then I got another thing the Germans used to ask the farmers to give out attacks at the tax was in money or in points let's say a cow was hundred and twenty points a horse was hundred points a chicken was 20 points on so each month the farmer had to give it away this was a way to figure out to given the the amount of points what everyone for half the money if you sold the cow in voting you could buy chicken keeper so I started to count them out how to give this and I became a specialist I got whatever I want for to make this for for each one ever foreign who liberated you directions they liberated with me over there and the next day I was so impatient I wanted to go back to war so and this was the 4th or the 5th of January when the world went on I saw that the Russians are two thieves the first thing I wanted to congratulate him that he came in he wanted to take away from me my watch Division and I was so foolish that I didn't give him that he could sure I didn't give them I thought I told him listen you are Liberator though you want my watch go to the Germans and take him some sandwiches I went into I wanted to go back to Warsaw to see what is happening so how could I go to war so nothing the the the Army is walking so in the village the artillery headquarters from the division made a point in a Jewish colonel was the head of the artillery so I went to him the spocalist guru Jewish a little Hassan and I told him I want to go to Wellsville so so he told me that on Tomaso they cleaned the way that I can go once I said we have a lot of maruders don't take a chance I borrowed from somebody a bicycle and I went into Warsaw was Winter I was the only single person in whole world you know what this is in this adventure and I went to the places where I had friends whom I who have been hidden in selling for me needles and parts and I saw that they are though not in but they had the the even burned up they didn't steal from me they had to play the things in their Apartments you I came across polls I tell you two who have been very honest true I was a lucky person to to a degree I say that the almighty God wanted a witness so he picked me as the witness and he and he was under on me to save me to go through this dangerous thing that a human being could go in through on his own what happened after he returned to Warsaw was was Anya with you no I left Dania when did she return I left her and I went to Warsaw look for the buildings what I built and what one building had survived and the Germans have been there and the Russians have been the population they couldn't find this was so ingeniously made the book and the hiding place because when we build the buildings we build each floor in a different layout that you couldn't know that something is existing and I have indisposal when when I was inside I closed myself up nobody could knew that something is is or in the so I went out and I found in my Hiding Place I found inside is still My Revolver in my food and everything I have cooked Rose winter I closed up the the windows with some wood and I went around in the empty the houses and I found some down covers and I went to sleep the next day I wanted to go on the uh on the other side turn the youthful still that the Russians have been saying about two months over there was life so I have no Bridges fax holds with Germans and in the factuals you see Frozen Germans in the fight so so I hold held Myself by a frozen foot from a German soldier and I jumped down on the ice of the Vistana and walked through on the other side to praga and I went out I went out they didn't see anybody so the Polish a police kept me that I am a spy and they took me on the on their headquarters and they kept me over there they you know it is also and I I couldn't they took my passport by false passport and they finally uh like I saw that I cannot get out from the dry run away from them where did you go I went to the city and started to look for people but I know I I found somebody and I I rented a room for myself have I washed myself I went back and I looked for some clothing and I made myself working this decent and I started to look right away to make a book to write somehow to in and after a while after a week 10 days I went back and I took Anya back with me towards or to the space I arranged it and I stayed in this place till from January until about April and then we we decided to go out on Pole and we went first to translovakia we went to Hungary them to Romania I wanted to go through Romania to Israel I couldn't go then I went back and I went to Germany and we stayed in Germany in Munich for about a year I think about not very short of a year and I went to the United States but in I was already all right in in after two three months I made my first ten thousands for adults and I moved into a whole hotel in in I lived good before you moved to Germany did you ever meet other survivors who had returned from any place else yes in Warsaw then I got out from this be changed one from the Polish police bipolar police and so the next day I like like full I went back and I tell them what is this you have arrested me after so much thing you keep me a day here and not calling me I went away what is it so he says we send out special letters to to to to to get you you are aspired so I told them you are crazy what are you talking he said I I was hiding as a Jew I was so the guy who was on the duty was a Jewish Lieutenant so after a while he started to so he told me that there is a place where the Jews used to come back are getting together in praga and he took a Jeep and he took me there and over there I met some people so the dangerous place after a while I stopped going there because people came in who have been hiding in surviving in the forest a person who was in the Pharaoh so came back he looked like a beast and I saw that this is dangerous that over there if she came people from camp and if somebody came from a camp and another guy said that he was a couple they didn't wait they killed them on the spot so I was afraid to go in after a while this was something what is unbelievable to describe you you understand but over there later on in this place I made net a Jewish Russian Colonel milking what's his name that's my before my boyfriend that who did for me a lot of things he helped me take back from Paul said merchandise route I had in that later on he wanted to take off the uniform and go with me to javani as well as it was a time it's all the time but in Germany I was already all right in Germany I had a little business already and I had an apartment and I lived in a in a the new fryment where this was Private houses to you and I started to make money and but I didn't want to stay there and I came to the United States in the United States this is what I was told wanted to tell you was there ever any thought of trying to reach Palestine yeah I went to even to the Black Sea port but a month before me they stopped all connections to former with the Russians to Pakistan and I decided to go to Palestine or to the United States but to Palestine with the Aliyah I bet I didn't want to go to because they said took the people to the island in a camp again I told myself no no more if whatever if I will get a visa to the United States I go to the United States and I got in Munich a visa to the United States and I came here I was very successful here in my in in those times did you come to the United States by boat yeah do you remember the name of the boat marina perch and where did it land in New York and in the pier here in mid Manhattan I have seen in the morning the Skylight of Manhattan and I've been sitting in meditating who knows with the here to whom will I talked how will I start and what in this is a world of normality if what is going to be with me how will I fit in this movement what were your first impressions of the United States sold my impression that I'll come to a colorful thing and I went out from the board on the pier they put the bundles what somebody had the according the names so they didn't stay instead Johnson instead of Jay they put on why you also here and I couldn't find my my bundles and the United service from New American had some people on the pier what greeted the people so I was greeted by a young girl by the name Parker who spoke a little Jewish who was sweet and this girl took such interest in us that this is unbelievable first of all she wanted to take Anya in to buy her clothing to do think and he thought Anya thoughts that she's considering her as a pool per person and she wants to give up he just started to cry and this girl want to do something good you understand and finally the next day she asked us to register to come to the to their offices and he was already waiting for me and they gave us some money for for a living they gave every survival who came and they gave me a room in the hotel Marseille on the Broadway in 120th Street but after two days they told me that the room has to be emptied because you were people and they wanted me to go to Los Angeles I told that Los Angeles is a far away and I made in my dreams that I will be in New York so I refuse I'm a stubborn person and they came I should go to the point that they wanted to send me and she should stay here I should see with it and buy me a ticket to go there and I refused I went out and I told myself people are dying if people are dying apartments are emptying I have to find a dead person Environmental palpitas I use it in a good a good neighborhood will be Americans what will find the apartment before me who can communicate the times were better the ice came from the war without having the no building process so I went to the east branch somebody told me that this is a pool neighborhood if Jews have been living so I went out in in the East Banks went to every candy store whoever spoke Jewish I stopped him on the 13 I told them and this way I found a woman whose husband died and she had an apartment on a six Walker full of woke up for me this looks like a palace I painted a few dollars what I have for a broken bed in a broken teeth and I moved in and I lived there for six months eight eight months eight months and over there I started to make already money and over there I already find the store but I opened that up what kind of store in my in my line I saw I used to take take I may go I right away in those times somebody offered me a job and wanted to pay me 160 dollars a week this was a lot of money I have been making in those times fifty sixty dollars right I started to go to factories and look for you sewing machines or repairs and so on you see and I I found sir they myself and I made right of him on it finally I saw that this is not for me a job I think it's not that not to look at it enough because if I have to look I would I started to put in ads in a paper for the Garment industry that I am looking for certain things I had a cause and I gave his telephone number and I got leads and I started to be to have leads that the American people in the business if they needed something they didn't have for nothing thousand people in the business I have to tell you that this was easy because they have been so poor business people they did not understand that I with my refugitire was far more advanced if they needed something after three months or they came to me if I know maybe where they can get it because if I had leads and I went out and I couldn't buy it because I felt it so I made a note of it and if he came to me you know I had a note where the season if he needed he could pay more you understand and I started to make money and then I have I always looked for big things I saw that this is to get its own machine was seen impossible because the government has forbidden to manufacture family sewing machines during the war they could only make on on special permission industrial machines for the Army I found my way how I can get the machines and I made the right of a money because you see it was a black market here I as a new person but I knewer I didn't know if an Opa I didn't know you want so much okay I can find a person who will pay me more I made a profit I don't care so I didn't know that this is an RPA here you know you understand so I got a guy in in Europe who ordered for me needles nobody wanted to offer me him because he couldn't get him an offer on the official price 16 he had to pay on the black market here 24. I couldn't pay 24 I offered them 40. but if he got only one of us for 40 he gave me the order you understand what it says no this was a golden blood for me what was the biggest adjustment for you coming to the United States the biggest adjustment for me it was going too fast especially here I lived on the East Bronx and here I moved right away to the to Forest Hills here I moved out in from Harrison from an apartment and I bought a house here I am in the house and I bought an estate in King's Point with a two and a half acres on this on the sound with 16 16 rooms and a servant squad for the recorders I was wrong too fast I somehow try to adjust myself but my wife I keep the poop so couldn't adjust herself so fast to the new life here I didn't like uh already she was afraid I moved out and I moved on the Fifth Avenue I didn't want to go to the park avenue because it wasn't enough Greens on me I moved too fast then I started to manufacture in in Italy I was the only one in the world to Manufactured songs I was given money for machines in here a year in advance I built a factory in Italy I got this Stella the Republic Italiana from the I was the first to bring the industry to Italy what was the name of your company in the in the beginning connected songs you see yeah I got publicity this is what I wanted to tell you unfortunately I got other I I got a great advantage that I am a survivor I went to the United Jewish appeal and told them no finally this this little girl this Miss Parker said told to me you are not a guy for a job you have to go on business for her and we have a way that we will lend you money to go on business and she slapped me to a guy over there and with he was a fool finally when I had already orders in this he lent me two thousand dollars thank you but after two months I made ten thousand dollars I made I had a lot of money so I told myself what am I going to hold there two thousand dollars I went back to them to give him back the two thousand dollars and I wanted to give him a donation two thousand dollars that he shouldn't much a new person who comes to him for money he should give him the two thousand dollars if you don't go on business when this guy saw this he was flabbergasted we're going to change tapes and resume in a moment this is tape number eight interview with Leon Jolson March 19 1998. there was something that you wanted to add to your story I think that an interesting thing is that after I stayed in Warsaw a few weeks a friend of mine who was incarcerated in Auschwitz came to Warsaw I went to school to hater actually with his brother together and he was in the same school and we were friendly before the war he somehow found out that I am in Boston and he run to me and he wanted to see me and I wanted to see him and he told me about his experiences in Auschwitz I was wondering how he lived through in Auschwitz and his in in in more or less in in good health so we started to talk so the story is as power in Auschwitz they needed services in order to keep the the place going they needed a cook in their needed a technician and a friend of his with whom he was in charge of the wooden the more the piping cleaning to for the whole camp the crossy was specialized in this in this uh trade and the Germans wanted a guy they were afraid for sicknesses and for epidemics so they let him stay and work on the voter installation you know on the chemical cleaning it and he had he gave him a permission to take 40 people with him to to manage it and this friend of mine was one of the 40 people and he told me that this man who took place or took care of it is still in Auschwitz and the Russians when they came in made him this civilian commander of the camp he should take care that the survivors who survive should be should have placed civil for something to eat or to sleep I was already after finding out what kind terrible Place Auschwitz was I was interested that to see what else is between three days so we decided to go with him back to Auschwitz because the same time we could get documents because the in in outfits in the camp the the Red Cross you know gave people documents to return home for instance it has been asked it was a Jew from cochita from Slovakia he got a document that he came to auschwitzen from Cochise and they recommend to all governments to help him go back home and I wanted a document like this to go out of Poland to be to go to Germany or to Romania to go to Israel so we went both to Auschwitz and we stayed with this friend he happened to be his name was he was a very fine Pleasant guy and he he lost his family he got he befriended a woman what had two children in England had made on her the experiment to and he married this word this woman so in Auschwitz I have seen the horrors after the evil the the Auschwitz looked like the same Dave Germans would walk out this was already a month or two but still you could touch the organs and you feel felt a warm on your hand you could see the mountains of the children's shoes around laying around around what they do they had the same the same rule what they did in a treblinki that asked the people to undress in going for a betting from the bed to the to the uh to the crematoria but in birkenau what is the next little place they kept people the young and strong working in a some way I don't know exactly how this was the rule in birken up it was I I looked of it only from a distance because I spent a few days in Auschwitz in the camp alone I saw in Auschwitz too mountains of Hungarian money of pengus what people emptied out from there and then I went to to Budapest I saw the same Tangles being used as a currency to to to buy things can you describe anything else that you found in Auschwitz suppose enough to see because to describe this what was over there is so difficult the horror the people on the selections the older people the from the stories what I heard of being the of the marching the women in the snow naked out before they were let into the camp this was horror of a horror I haven't been in I've been lucky not to be in Auschwitz were there any survivors there are survivors third survivors people whom the Germans used for certain functions what they had to have in order to run the camps and young people especially in in birkenau I saw survivors but small groups of survivors no not this was a a very small group false horror and horror I have seen it but for me was it interested therefore I I left Poland to see what this main machine of killing looked like this was the main a killing machine have you ever returned to Poland yes when did you do that I have to return to Poland several times one time I returned I have to tell you a story about this I'm afraid because when I left Poland I still had some family things what I some gold coins some diamond rings some of this but I was hmm afraid to take it with me with me because borders in the police and all those things though what I have done in the apartment building where I had my Hiding Place was on the courtyard a little girl so I went down and I made a hole in the soil in this little garden and I covered this up with paper with materials and I put and I have put it left it over there was very anxious to get this back so one day I decided I was a friend of mine told me that a Russian all Colonel is going to Warsaw with a with a truck and he can take some people with him so I paid him and he took me to war so so I took the same time some sewing machine some office machine because I knew that this is already a shortage over there of it and I took it and I have sold it good when I came there finally finally I decided I went down to find my what I put in the soil over there but in during the day I couldn't do it I was afraid so I it was cold in the middle of the night at night time I took a hike and I was looking for it engraving for a half a night and I couldn't find it in the moment I have already made up my mind that I am not going to go I decided to look in one more place and I found it the way how I how I left it I found everything and I wanted to go back so I thought but Anya was I left Anya and Hungary so how did I take it so I took Russian coins in American because you know I saw it in in my in my jacket in my court and all those things I wasn't careful already I knew how to smuggle myself through a border but I was so anxious to go home that I didn't I went too fast and I didn't they called me called me and started to cut on me my suit and my think and find everything and took it away for me and put me in a jail in Slovakia I stayed in this jail and the finally they came to me I should sign for them a paper that I agreed that this should be taken to me they will let me out and I will suffer I didn't want to do it so they kept me there they kept me there then another three days finalized so and they took me out to exercise in the morning that I am falling so I agreed to sign the paper I went to to the Jewish community and they they the Reverend gave me a piece of bread I remember till this moment the taste of it and the president from the community lent me some money to buy a ticket to go to to back to Budapest I came The Budapest destroyed they think what I took with me I had somebody I made a in a business in Budapest apartment I was afraid that he should not suspect that I took the money I solder for myself so in the itself what I have been sitting they used they made some little names on the door who was inside when I out I took this little name of mine what was of the door to show him that I was arrested that I was in the in the south after being in Budapest a month I was so angry I went back to to Slovakia and I started to look in Slovakia for a connection to make it short I found somebody a lawyer a Jew who took my case pro bono and we gave event to court and he has made it tremendous presentation the the how I didn't know they were the complaint was that I don't On the Border that I didn't fill out the form that I have this with me because you were to support so the truth is he told them I was a person out from this kind of a situation how could I could they they gave me back everything again and I went back to Hungary and in Hungary I was a while then I told you I went to Romania and I looked for a way to go to Israel I couldn't go to Israel then I went to Germany in Germany I went through in a little business and I was successful I wanted to go to the United States and in the United States I told you I the the United Jewish United service from new America led me two thousand dollars to go on business this week this is the place where we stopped and finally I took the two thousand dollars back to them and he wanted to give him a donation for two thousand dollars the the guy was overwhelmed that he didn't want to take on me the money and he told me to come back in a day he told me how to return it what did it what did it show up that they wanted to make big publicity that they have helped a refugee going in business in he not only he returns the money I was the first person who returned money to them but they landed somebody when you were living in Sands Point because well when you were living in Forest Hills and then Sands Point did you and your wife reconnect with the synagogue and any Jewish life we didn't connect tonight very Jewish life I was well received in Forest Hills in Cincinnati the rabbi was over there and it said this was a conservative synagogue benzion boxer a wonderful person a person what can be exemplary it's an honest in good meaning as they passed away and in in in King's Point I was well received in a while I was on the board of this synagogue and I was received in the sinner to be friends with you I have reconnected with the people my mistake because she was somehow not so happy there did your experiences during the Holocaust effect your religious faith in any way when you arrived in the United States yes in what way in meditation I have been thinking the good things that happened to me I have to be thankful for it and I don't know why in them for for what but I couldn't reconcile the bad thing for said what's happened to so many people that somehow if the almighty could do good things he was not easy for him to do for from to do more good things for so many people this was the the thought was but you know the Jewish faith cells that you shouldn't ask close questions this means you shouldn't ask you shouldn't question the moving of the almighty because you haven't got the lenses to see as far as he sees as long as you haven't got the lenses to see you cannot go in and question him what he saw do you understand and I have reconciled myself maybe willingly by looking of a way to to answer myself what wasn't a hundred percent answer what I have consoled myself with how have you personally chosen to commemorate the Holocaust I personally have chosen to commemorate the Holocaust through a through through a process of thinking I wanted to put a gravestone for my family or my brother my sisters my nephews so there can you put in the grapes on it I'm linking this so finally I decided to put a gravestone in Jerusalem in the adversham and this came the idea to me to put up in Jerusalem they've also ghetto Plaza in knowing that Rapaport was the creator of the of the monument in Warsaw I reconnected with him and the condition between the Jewish State and the polls were very bad in those times they they have fired all the Jews from the position in the government the streets have all invited them in those time time it's a terrible anti-semit anti-Semitism has under this communist government came out so the government in Israel wanted the main Monument what station Walsall should not go they were afraid that they will destroy it the vaxes from what this Monument was made were in Paris in France because Poland had no Foundry who could made a be making big things so they send it to Paris for through to a Foundry to make it and but they didn't take back the boxes to Poland but they because a monument a sculptor has phases first he makes something like this by hand what you have what you see here then with a pantograph he enlarges said in in rocks to decide what this is the monument has to be then he read they retouched the waxes the noses in the faces after the boxes are retouched completely they put it in forms and put in the hot metal so this is burning up the wax and a metal things comes in from this form then they retouched the the metal Thing by hand about 10 assistants working with him to retouch everything and after this is retouched they cut it in pieces and they are re the casting yet and then they welded him together again and this is oxidized is this how a monument and then is being created and I got very friendly with him because I was I not only financed it but I was working with him on this and I decided to do it in Jerusalem and I was the first Monument what was made about the Warsaw Ghetto in Jerusalem I made the name what is the name of the monument they've also ghetto Plaza and the monument has faces the Uprising in they saw Daniel levitch with the heroes they show you how they went in the uprising the last walk they present the use walking to the crematoriums and then they saw the new Army it is a in this is a plaza this is and this is the main phrase from all the the things what happened every year is made in the admission this is why I felt that the place for a monument for a is Jerusalem because Jerusalem will always be the Jerusalem was destroyed three thousand years ago Jerusalem came back I don't know what is going to be with the monument with a with the Washington museum as you have explained me about the memory I feel too but I feel that some anti-semites go out in with a feeling that they are happy that this happened to the Jews so for me this thinking was a major thing that I felt that Jerusalem is the place where the memory should stay forever and ever what was it about Nathan rappaport's work that spoke to you Nathan Rapaport was a person who had a tremendous inner feelings with a sense of vision of things he has seen this Monument when he was in Russia he was very very well received in Moscow they gave him the stalinist a big place with a studio with material because they have great respect for they had great respect for Arts and Rapaport in in making for them sculptures have been thinking about his family and his parents and Warsaw and he memorized this this monument and he came to Warsaw he just right away went a non-native in sketches foreign how have you chosen to commemorate the Holocaust here in New York City here in New York 660 I have chosen my way to memorize it I wanted children should remember it and the school of the Park Avenue in 87 children was created I have proposed to them that they should let me make through Rapaport a sculpture to show culture Kojak was a children's psychiatrist who took 200 children and we've also ghetto and put them into care of them and went with them to to a republican spite that the German doctor wanted him to stay because he had such a tremendous worldwide name he was the only children's psychiatrist with the Statue of what was known in those time and he decided not to stay he decided to go with his server the whole story he has prepared the children a day before what will be in order mentally to help them to go through this so I made this on the uh comma his commemoration then the return on the school I decided this way to satisfy myself here I went back to Boston to make to change my mother's gravestone who was buried as a Christian to make it Jewish I had to I have a problem now they destroyed it the anti-semites in Poland I have to go I am making my time now to go back to repair this why did you want to tell your story I didn't want to tell my story people whom I know survivors have urged me to say it to town and I did find out that so many people are telling it I don't they want to take the responsibility that my judgment is the best not to tell I Feel Some Kind somehow maybe I have a responsibility not for myself but for other people to tell the story I don't know for the reason what is it going to be I never wanted to write a book I never would but I felt that I am not entitled to have this judgment to say that I am right in everybody's wrong this is why I thought we're going to change tapes and conclude the interview in a moment this is tape number nine with Leon Jolson March 19 1998. do you have dreams about your experiences I do I eat I have to admit that lately this is more not so frequently years ago but I had the dreams finding myself running and go that the the day the German sargonka out to catch people on work and I ran into a building can I ran on the to the top floor and look how to go out on the top in in I in the middle I used to wake up that in in a state what I had to wait a half an hour till I came back to the no to my normal way of being and thinking are there certain events or times of year that cause you to we're called Holocaust yes I had an event in Yom Kippur and I was in true perspect of it what stands out always in my mind in when I think about the Holocaust it was Yom Kippur in 1943 I think and in the evening I thought with a few with about eight friends we should sit down in recite the corned I've asked myself I changed my cloth so I told to prepare something to drink to eat the factory of Schultz was National 78. 76 was the living folder for the Jewish laborers who worked in the factory I mean in 74 was a building where they had a factory what made soft drinks all kinds of soft drinks I knew the people who had this Factor over there so I told myself I will he was not supposed to sell it he made it for the Gestapo only the software they let him live and stay because the Gestapo wanted to have it so for so that sinful Soulful soft drinks so I went in and I asked him to sell me about two cartons of this something that is all this as I stayed and I am preparing myself to go something is happening a German officer with a platoon came came in in every body March his marching out whoever lived in the building with work time in the family to the um I go out and start to show him my papers what I got as an important person to the economy for development for this he said that this is nothing for what he throws it on the way and he makes me go to the to the line to match me up I went again to him I was and he saw the time and he told told me if I don't lie down on the knee he took out the the revolver he's shooting me and I saw that he's not joking but I as I told you decided not to go afternoon what is going to be in this this throw wasn't my mind and in this moment I decided not to go he had he what was it he was in charge this day for a transport in order to save his skin he couldn't fill up with the people indeed what he had delivered he looked for news just to fill up the the train you understand so but he I got to be known to him because I was the only one who protested who didn't want to go who told him that he has no right to take me I am exempt from anything from anything you understand he was angry he was yelling he was Halloween but he had to manage to get the hundred people together in one moment I saw that he is on another side I went back into this soda Factory this Jew who had this other was all afraid he told me what do you want from me I am thinking God that he lets me stay here what do you want to do I didn't have he was neither I went up this was the end of a apartment building after the courtyard in I went into the factory in this was a stale case to go out on the floors so I went on the staircase I saw a little small window but it's been the look to me golden in a blind alley and this wasn't opened already for 20 years but I use all my strength forced out and opened it I opened it and I saw that inside our barrels with all kind of of things from what they made the soft drinks the things the uh the the chocolate is the flavors and all the flavors in it and in the bowls are leftovers what they left when they took it house to make I'm on the tape or fourth floor so I decided in the barrels went up very high I went out through this window and I called it back and I went from one barrel to the other bow till I came to the bottom and on the bottom in such a day devour inside with the dust in all this I I went into my myself and I called myself and I hear this guy outside yelling and hollowing and looking for me there's this guy who the woman whom I told to go where is he and he I sit inside and he house and he looking for me couldn't find me I was lucky that this owner from the the shoulder Factory was afraid to to answer too because he was afraid to look of him of this assessment came late he was supposed to come back in to finish the train he couldn't find me he went away and I lie song inside in this battle it was doubt by it's built by seven o'clock I I moved out from the bar and I started my way back as I run down through thee to this wisdom and I went down the factory that I had my my an apartment was next about 76 this was the place where all people lived in section 7 78 was the first was the factory I knew that this could be the entrance to the building is closed six o'clock because confused and the German the guys who have the job to oversee it stay in on in the entrance they don't let anybody in and let anybody I knew that my wife is staying there in in looking for me and I I knew that across the street is the opening to go out and in for the get to the ghetto and you have guessed up over there with all this police and I didn't know what to do stay till the morning over there go out my wife is is getting scared I was afraid that he will die from scared finally I decided it was dark to go out ran over to the and yelled to the German guy was his name was Neumann that this is my opened me up the door in he opened me up the door and I went there my wife was near the door White and you did the atmosphere was so that this is difficult to understand for you a person people were jealous that the other person has a husband still that the other person has been died in my wife was staying the needles in his by the other women over there who have been in the entrance that you are not the one who was the husband and in the in all those those things I tell you that sometimes I have been they keep awaking the the the the feeling when he wanted to shoot me he didn't let me out and he wanted to take me was so engraved in my brain in my fields that I am not going that it was as Point what I cannot forget and I haven't Vivid in front of my of my eyes and I walked up in the middle of the night vetting full in water going through the whole thing again did you have children with Anya yeah how many children did you have we had two children we lost one donor do you have any grandchildren yeah my oldest grandson is about 17. Adam and he is in named after my father and then I have another grandson his name is Gideon then I have a granddaughter but her name is Shira [Music] she named her after this part of the Bible in concluding your interview is there anything that you'd like to say to your daughter and your grandchildren I would like to then to to tell him that they had a terrible things have to has happened to the Jewish people worldwide right we lost a segment of the people what was so important to live to continue Judaism and Jewish ideals that they have an obligation to fill in the void what has happened is there anything you'd like to say to future Generations the future new generation I would like to say not to forget I don't feel that this world has saved Humanity humanity is as bad now as this as this was in 1944. the important thing is that Jews should have a Homeland where they can live on their own Graces the United States is a wonderful place for Jews cannot be better but still they live on The Graces of an American government this is not healthy Italy has here a big immigration but Italy exists as a country Irish people have isagra is a nation and they have a big immigration Jews essay people who are so mobile who are so active who could make out from Israel in a short in 50 years a country what has reached the standard of living of Great Britain that is starting salary of a Israeli is 80 thousand dollars a year always will have an enemies always have will be exposed to jealousy a people like this have to remember that they have to preserve that the Israel the day what is up what wherever you can go whenever he wants in every danger what is existing because I remember that people in the ghetto who had connections could go out spots away for money because I told you already the the corruption of the Germans were so great that I had once a proposition to get a plane for a certain amount of money to go to a neutral country but where to go if you went to Switzerland they called you on the board take the two three thousand people from the border on the they sent back in their birthday you dispose no the Britain they had demanded they didn't let in anybody so the important thing to have a place on all the Jews can live on their own Grace is not realized by World viewer jewelry because they live comfortable in the United States and I don't blame them if I wouldn't even through this I myself wouldn't have this feeling you cannot forget this that in order to be safe when all the future generation to be safe Israel has to exist as an independent country thank you very much welcome Leon would you please introduce the lady sitting next to you the lady sitting next to me is my lovely wife for for close to 60 years and we have spent a life in in different conditions and we still came out the way how we are Anya what would you like to say about this whole experience your husband's telling his story and how you feel about it you see I know very well his experience because we we went through the same thing yeah there were just moments when he went by by himself for example I never went [Music] there I didn't want to go and I am I I just happy not to say it and I would say that our life here since we are here we were very very happy and very unique extremely wonderful experience we had in this country we made the most fantastic people we never regretted you know like going from Hell To Heaven that's how I feel and I just can say Bless America my my children were born here unfortunately my family is not here to see our happiness and our well-being and that's what I regret and I just hope to have this one sec to be together with my husband and see my grandchildren been getting married and my greatest wishes to be at their wedding so I have two ways still I just hope that I will make it Leanne would you like to say something to your wife Plus I think that I I cannot find the words to talk to her just what she said is my wish with her I feel I think that this was the most wonderful thing we should be able to bring to the grandchildren and a generation should come out who will live in Tranquility in happiness in the future and I think that they will they are all able children and they are giving us the the feeling of all the best things what can happen in the future my wife is very much attached to them and they are attached to her and this is a wonderful thing to come through life after this kind of hell and be in a stage like we are thank you very much this is a picture of my family don't in Warsaw when I was a child in not born yet the first one to the left is my grandmother the girl in the chair is my sister Sarah the boy over her is my brother Abraham the young lady near Abraham is my sister Esther the lady in the head is my mother brima the in between my mother and my father is my brother Benjamin near Benjamin is my father next to my father's [Music] is my sister Sephora what was your grandmother's name Leia this is a Leatherhead of our business in Warsaw what was conducted under my father's name [Music] the picture shows industrial sound conditions what are the main points for the sowing plant has to consist of in order to produce garments in underwear this is the gravestone on the Catholic Cemetery in Warsaw where my brother my mother was buried during the voso ghetto closing the no possibility was to bring to to to bring a person on the Jewish cemetery she was buried under a false name because this was her false passport as a Catholic and a cross was had to be put on the gray straw Stone in order to match all other stones on the cemetery this is a document what I obtained from the Red Cross in Auschwitz right after deliberation what helped me to leave Warsaw and go in my in the first phase to Hungary and and Romania this is a gold coin but has been in my family's Fortune what I put in a heel of a shoe then I had to leave Warsaw in order to have something of what I can always with a farmer exchange for food and I did and I this has been preserved till I came to the United States where did you carry this coin in the heel of my shoe and a Shoemaker has put it in in the hill and by mistake he put in a nail in the wrong place and we have the hall from its mistake on the coin this is a model of the Main Warsaw synagogue on the plumasca street what we put up in Tel Aviv on the grounds of the Tel Aviv University the Museum of bad actor in memory of my late daughter Dorothy Johnson this is a picture of the monument what we commissioned the famous sculpture Nathan Rappaport to put up in Jerusalem on the har khazikaron in memory of divorce or ghetto the whole place was named devosar ghetto Plaza in the first to the left is the the the sculpture what shows danilevic and his the heroes of the uprising the the picture the relief on the right is the last March for the of the use from the vonsol ghetto the people who you see in front of you the first person is one of the functionaries of yadrachem the second is the director of next to him I Leon Jolson stay and next to me my wife Anya it stays next to my wife is Nathan Rappaport next to Rapaport is the German president of yadav Hashem Dr Posner and the next to the juxtaposner is the executive director of yatra do you remember his name here you have a ticket for entry to decode the the Eichmann case was proceeding in Jerusalem I've made a special trip to be present and see how the villain Eichmann is put up in the cage from where he has been defending himself this is a picture of the building what we built during the ghetto this this building was destroyed and was not finished by by a Jewish Family what was called molanov this was a private banking family and the during the bombardment this was even more destroyed we have built this picks this the house this apartment building together with the Polish underground the home Army in order to put up among the apartments a hiding place in a bunker what the home Army could keep their military equipment and I in my wife Anya could use the place to hide when when we went into the place there was a hiding door simulated to the wall that nobody could recognize that something is behind the door and behind the door was actually the ammunition what I kept the cocktails the mold of cocktails what we kept and this was not discovered in spite that Germans have been looking around and they couldn't find it this is the gravestone what we substituted after the war for the gravestone with a cross because my mother would be uncomfortable to be buried under a cross under a cross gravestone after all it didn't stay too long because the poles have destroyed me this this is a safer Torah what I brought from warsong and donated to the Atlantic Beach Jewish Community Center and we are here on the by with my grandson and me the Torah and my wife Anya what is the name of your grandson Gideon

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Id: Yunq6Xp35IQ

Length: 270min 59sec (16259 seconds)

Published: Tue Jun 27 2023