[Music plays] >> Bill Benson: Welcome. Thank you for joining us for First Person: Conversations with Holocaust Survivors. I'm Bill Benson, and I've hosted First Person since
it began at the Museum 23 years ago. Each month, we share first-hand accounts of survival during
the Holocaust. Each of our First Person guests serves as a volunteer at the Museum. Holocaust
survivors are Jews who experienced the persecution and survived the mass murder that was carried
out by the Nazis and their collaborators. This included those who were in concentration camps,
killing centers, ghettos, and prisons, as well as refugees or those in hiding. Holocaust survivors
also include people who did not self-identify as Jewish, but were categorized as such by
the perpetrators. During our conversation, please send us your questions and let us know
where you are joining from in the live chat. We are honored to have Holocaust survivor
Peter Feigl share his first-hand account of the Holocaust with us today. Peter, thank you so
much for agreeing to be our First Person. >> Peter Feigl: Thank you, Bill, for asking me, and thank you for
this opportunity to speak to people about my experiences during the second World War. >> Bill Benson: Peter, you have so much to share with us, and we have just an hour so we'll jump right in. Peter, you were born in Berlin on March 1st, 1929. Please tell us about your parents and what you know of your family's life in Germany in the early 1930s before the Nazi party came to power. >> Peter Feigl: So as you said, I was born in
1929 into a upper middle class family. My father, who was a Austrian citizen, was working in Germany
at the time. He was a graduate mechanical engineer. My mother was essentially a housewife for raising me. My father and my mother were totally secular, wanted absolutely nothing to do with any kind of organized religion, and so I was raised without any religious background whatsoever. The family was well-off sufficiently that in summer times for instance we would go on vacations, either at
the beach or we would go to travel to Switzerland, to Austria and visit family there, and things
were going very nicely. 1933 when Hitler came to power, I, four years old, was fascinated by all of
the military music that I heard on radio, the speeches which I didn't understand really fully,
but I was enthralled by all the flags and all the pageantry that the Nazis were producing.
And this sort of went on until 1934. >> Bill Benson: Peter, if I could jump in and just ask you one
one question about prior to the Nazis coming to power. Tell us a little bit more about your
father's business. He was a mechanical engineer. How did he support the family? >> Peter Feigl: My father
worked for a company that represented a number of American companies, among them Champion spark plugs,
and other companies in the automotive industry. And he represented those companies throughout Europe,
so he frequently traveled extensively throughout Europe, promoting the products of those
companies. And his company actually had offices in several other European countries. >> Bill Benson: And Peter, you began to tell us about what happened once the Nazis came to power in 1933 in Germany. You were just four years old. So yes, tell us how that affected your family at that time. >> Peter Feigl: So I guess at the age of four you become conscious of what was going on around you, and as I mentioned I became fascinated by all this pageantry. I had lead toy soldiers that I played with and I couldn't wait to grow up and be a soldier too. And the Nazis did a spectacular job of putting on all kinds of military marches, concerts in the streets and on public parks and so forth. And I really loved all of this until I went to school finally in April of 1936 when I was six years -- excuse me,
'37 was when. Right, there I am carrying the traditional candy cone that every first
grader becomes on his first day in school and here in school, I learned how to read and write.
And our teacher produced a book and read from it and showed it to us, and the book was entitled
"The Poisoned Mushroom" and on the cover you can see this poison mushroom which is very well-known
in Europe. He's got a big nose and a Jewish star on his chest. And the teacher was telling us
that this mushroom represents Jews who are awful people. They lie, they cheat, they steal, they stink
of garlic, they molest children -- I didn't know what that meant but obviously something bad -- and they
are to blame for everything that goes wrong in the world and those are people that really
should be treated like vermin, they should be exterminated. And not knowing any better this
is what my teacher was telling me, and this is something that was implanted in my brain, and
I believed this. Little did I know at the time that Hitler and his anti-Jewish program was
not aimed at a religion but that they classified it as a racial category, and that I
was myself considered as part of that race. >> Bill Benson: Peter, so the book that the
teacher actually read to you in the classroom with that cover you showed us, she read
that aloud to the students? >> Peter Feigl: Yes, and not only that, but we were asked to read some of the words ourselves after we had learned to form the strange characters that we were
taught to write in at that time in Germany. >> Bill Benson: After that Peter, your family left Berlin in 1936
I believe, moving to Prague, Czechoslovakia and then a year later relocated to your father's hometown
of Vienna, Austria. Tell us about your life in Vienna. >> Peter Feigl: Life in Vienna was very good. My father as
I mentioned was an Austrian citizen. He was born in Vienna so he was back home. His
two sisters lived in Austria at the time. And for me, there was a surprise waiting for me
because my mother and my father at that point had a conversation, and they concluded, "Look we
just left Germany, we heard Hitler ranting and raving against the Jews. We're in Austria which is
95% Roman Catholic, and they have a long history of hating Jews. Why don't we have Peter baptized?"
So at that point I was baptized, I learned catechism, had my first Communion in Vienna. There
you see me in my first Communion outfit. And from that point on I really considered myself a
Catholic. I even was on several occasions also asked to serve as altar boy. So life was good
in Austria. I continued going to school there and all of this sort of took a turn in another
direction on the 10th of March of 1938 when -- >> Bill Benson: Before we turn to that, just if I can ask you Peter,
and then I also want to share something with you. At that point when you were baptized and
later had your first Communion, you considered yourself Catholic. Did you know anything
otherwise? You just thought you were a Catholic boy. >> Peter Feigl: I knew nothing other than that. I had no idea
that I was part of the Jewish race and I just continued living. I went to church
frequently, my parents allowed me to go there, or urged me to go there, and I had no way of
thinking anything else. >> Bill Benson: Peter, before we continue I'd like you to know that we have people watching and listening to you today from around the country. We have viewers in Illinois,
Rhode Island, Nevada, Michigan, and Tennessee. And then we have people watching you today from
Malta, Romania, Mexico, Germany, and Portugal. So a lot of people listening and learning from you
today. I'd also like to share a comment that was submitted by a viewer, Kristi. Kristi writes, "I
met Peter a number of years ago when I was at the Museum for a teacher's conference. I share his
story with my students whenever I get the chance." >> Peter Feigl: Thank you for telling me that. >> Bill Benson: Peter, you
began to tell us how things changed in 1938. Germany annexed or seized control of Austria
in March 1938 and they received enthusiastic support from most of the country's population.
What do you recall of that annexation by Germany? >> Peter Feigl: Well here I am, a nine-year-old at this point,
and all of a sudden they reappeared or appeared for the first time in Austria all of the
fanfare and the flags and military marches and so forth that I had heard in
my early childhood, and I found this fascinating. And I heard that Hitler was coming
to Vienna, and I wanted to see Hitler. And I ran away from home and joined this mob. There were
several hundreds of thousands of people waiting to see Hitler. We saw him coming by in a car,
in an open car, and we were all screaming, "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer!" One people, one empire, one leader. And I was chafing at the bit to join the Hitler Youth because they had snazzy uniforms with a sand brown belt, and
with the uniform came a dagger and boy, did I want to join them and march with the drum corps that
they had that sounded just great. So nearly four hours passed before I got back home, and my mother
was furious at the time. She yelled at me and she said, "Where have you been?", and I told her very
proudly, "I saw our Führer!", and my mother slapped me left and right and told me, "He is not ours and
don't you ever forget it." I was very confused at the time, but within a matter of about seven or ten days we packed one suitcase each and left and headed for Belgium... >> Bill Benson: Peter, was it difficult
for you to be able to leave and get out of Austria? >> Peter Feigl: Fortunately my father had no difficulty
in doing so because as I mentioned he was traveling throughout Europe on business, so he had
multiple entry visas for many countries and his company had an office in Antwerp, Belgium. So at the
border, we were interrogated by German police and they asked my father, "Why are you fleeing
the German Empire?", and my father said, "We are not fleeing the Empire. As you can see we only
have one suitcase each. I'm going to my office in Antwerp, and I thought I'd take my son and my
wife with me just for a week and we'll be back in Vienna in no time at all." So they finally allowed
us to go. >> Bill Benson: So Peter, you took one suitcase each. So you literally left everything else behind. >> Peter Feigl: We
left everything behind and I was of course very upset about the fact that I had to leave behind
my electric train set and my toy soldiers and my stroller. And also I found myself in a country
where they didn't speak my language. They didn't speak German. So I had to go to school and learn
not only one but two new languages, French and Flemish. But what I didn't realize at the time
was that for my parents it was far more traumatic than for me because as you said they
left all of their possessions behind. Furniture, jewelry, crystal, silverware, in other words
everything, and here we now lived in a much smaller furnished apartment. And this obviously
was far more difficult for my parents than for me. >> Bill Benson: Despite all of that tremendous change for
them, did they feel safe once they were in Belgium? >> Peter Feigl: They did indeed feel safe because Belgium had been declared a neutral country about six, seven years earlier. And there had been rumors of a possible
war breaking out in Europe, and I overheard adults talking in terms of, "Well if war
should ever come, we'll have nothing to worry about in Belgium because we are in a neutral country." >> Bill Benson: And as you're about to tell us, that all changed. World War II of course began September 1st, 1939 when Germany attacked Poland. When Nazi Germany attacked Belgium in May of 1940, the impact on your family was almost immediate. Tell us what happened to your father at that time. >> Peter Feigl: Yes, on the 10th of May, when the Germans invaded Belgium, Holland, and Luxembourg, my father felt he had an obligation to go to his office and possibly pay out salaries to his employees so that if they wanted to flee, they would be able to do so. On the way to Antwerp at the railway station there was an identity check. My father produced his German passport, and he was promptly arrested as an enemy alien of course. And it took us three days to locate him. My mother and I went to see
him and we were allowed to bring him a suitcase with a blanket and some clothing and my father
told my mother, "Get out of Belgium. Get out of Brussels as quickly as possible. You don't want to
get caught between two armies. You have the Germans coming from the East and you have Belgian, French,
and German -- excuse me, you have French and British soldiers coming from the southwest coming to the
aid of Belgium, so get out of here." So my mother and I and my grandmother, all three of us, fled
with hundreds of thousands of refugees headed for France. It took us 10 days to get there and
on the road we were frequently machine-gunned by German Stuka dive bombers who were trying to block
the roads to prevent the Brits and the French from coming to Belgium. And I as an 11 year
old now as we were lying in a ditch whenever we were being attacked, I thought of only one thing:
when I grew up, I want to become a pilot and be in a cockpit of an airplane [making shooting noises] with a machine gun. That must be a lot of fun. And I didn't realize that the cow that suddenly dropped dead next to me had just
been shot by that airplane. >> Bill Benson: And of course Peter, as it would turn out we won't, have time to go in this today, your later life you became not only a pilot but very, very much associated with the
aeronautical industry so that's for another time. That mass exodus -- hundreds of thousands
with Stuka bombers. Besides the excitement that you described, that must be a very vivid memory of
yours. >> Peter Feigl: It's a very vivid memory. The most vivid one is the night that we came through Dunkirk, the place from which subsequently the Brits were able to take most of their troops back to England but we drove through Dunkirk at a time when the entire harbor installations were
in flames. The Germans had machine-gunned the oil storage tanks and subsequently dropped one
incendiary bomb which ignited everything and so the sky was lit brightly with the flames as
we were able to ride on a World War I truck through the city of Dunkirk. So I really remember
that one. >> Bill Benson: And you made it to Paris. And then once you were there, your mother said you must go south. Why did she decide that you must go south and where did you go? >> Peter Feigl: Well four hours after we arrived
in Paris at my aunt's apartment, the air raid sirens went off and my mother said, "I didn't come
here to be bombed. I could have stayed in Brussels for that." So we were able to get on one of the
last trains that made it from Paris down to the city of Bordeaux on the Atlantic coast in the
south of France. And there -- my mother's rigid German upbringing -- she had to go and report immediately
to the police to get permission to remain in Bordeaux and the French policemen scratched
his head and said, "I don't know what to do with you. You're a German woman who married an
Austrian and that makes you Austrian, but there's no Austria, and you're here with your
son and your mother and you don't have a visa. You don't belong here. Go to the gendarmes." That was the national police. Same thing there. They sent us to the prefecture which is the civilian administration. And there they told my mother, "Ah, we have experts who know just how to deal with people such as you. You're going to
take a train and go to a place called Oloron-Sainte-Marie near the Spanish border, and they know what to do
with you." So with the little money that my mother had left, we took a train with my grandmother
and in Oloron, all the train was surrounded by French gendarmes with machine guns and they
loaded us onto trucks, and in 20 minutes they dumped us into a French detention camp called Gurs. >> Bill Benson: Tell us about Gurs. What kind of place was this? >> Peter Feigl: Gurs was a detention camp that had been created by the French about three years earlier, and it was intended to hold refugees from the Spanish
Civil War. The camp had a capacity of about 14,000 people. Each barrack held 60 people. There were
no beds in the barracks, you slept on the floor of the barracks. Had no hygienic facilities,
there was no toilet in there. There were no water or anything, the only water was
a cold water spigot on the outside of the barrack and the toilet facilities were located
about 200 yards away. They were open pits. The whole place -- it was disgusting and it stank.
It was mid-May and temperatures were higher and we were all obsessed with one thing: food.
Eating. There was no food for breakfast. I would have a lukewarm fluid called coffee with
one slice of bread. Lunchtime was more, another slice of bread this time with a lukewarm fluid --
you might find two or three slices of carrot floating in it so you were lucky. And dinner
was a repeat of her lunch. And on top of that even though there were no beds, we had bed bugs
there. We had body lice and fleas. People were dying from from disease and starvation. And it
was a horrible place that I will never forget. >> Bill Benson: And that image that we just had up of course of
rows and rows and rows of barracks was from Gurs. After six weeks -- you were there for six weeks -- you were released however. How was that made possible? >> Peter Feigl: That became possible
because the French surrendered and signed an armistice with the Germans on the
22nd of June. And my mother who was a barracks chief -- the barracks chief received
periodic briefings from the camp commander and she learned that there would be a German Army
inspection team coming to Gurs to see whether there were any Germans held there who
would be able to repatriate back to Germany. So my mother placed herself at the entrance of
the camp on the day when the team arrived. She figured that being an army team
they weren't looking for Jews or they were just looking for German citizens and when she saw the
team, she rushed forward brandishing her German passport and sticking it under the nose of the
team leader, yelled "Heil Hitler!" as loud as she could, and said, "I am a citizen of the great German
Reich. I have been held here by these no-good lousy stinking French people together with my mother
and my son. I demand to be released immediately." And the German officer looked at the passport and
turned to the French camp commander and said, "You call taxi for madame. Taxi takes madame where she
wants to go." And 20 minutes later we were in a taxi and the cab driver said, "Where to?", and Mother
said, "Take us to Spain." He said, "Impossible. They won't let anybody in and the French won't let
anybody out. Where to?" "Take us North." So we started driving north for about four, four and a half hours. >> Bill Benson: With no certain destination. Just going north. >> Peter Feigl: No destination. When we came through the town of Toulouse, one of the major cities in France, my grandmother left us because she had
discovered, I don't know how, but she found out that when my aunt who had been in Paris managed
to get to Toulouse and my grandmother said, "Look, you have enough problems handling Peter. I'm going to leave and join my other daughter and good luck." So we continued driving for about another hour
until we came to a town called Auch. And there the cab driver was stopped and told, "Don't go any further.
They're Germans on the other side." And that's when my mother rang the doorbell of a big, large, red
brick building. It turned out to be a convent. >> Bill Benson: So she just picked out that building and decided to go there? >> Peter Feigl: That was the nearest building across from the railroad the tracks where we had stopped. And so the nun listened to my mother's story and, by the way, this was the first person who did the right thing. Who really helped us. And she put my mother in touch with a local food distribution center which had been established a couple of years earlier to help Spanish
refugees and the center was operated jointly by the Swiss Red Cross and American Quakers. And they
offered my mother a part-time job. With a part-time job offer, she was able to go to the police and
get a residence permit allowing us to remain in Auch and of course she also had the opportunity of
bringing home, almost daily, food from the canteen. You see my mother here in the group of
people operating that food distribution center. So we now lived in a very, very tiny one-room
apartment and I mean really one room. That room was a bathroom, bedroom, dining room, our
living room. That's all that there was, but at least we were there. My mother then
tried to find out what happened to my father and ultimately discovered in late September
that he also ultimately wound up in Gurs. And my father was 16 years older than my mother,
so in those detention camps he developed heart problems and in March of 1940, '40 -- '41,
he was given a 30-day convalescence leave. The camp commander must have figured, let him
die outside. Let his own family take care of his burial. So he was able to join us in that one-
room apartment but at least we were together and my mother succeeded on a monthly basis to get an
extension to this convalescence leave that my father and then she tried everything possible to
keep him alive. >> Bill Benson: When you were reunited at that period after he was released from Gurs on convalescence
leave had your mom until she relocated found him, had she had any communication with
him since you last saw him in Belgium? >> Peter Feigl: No she she did the first communication she had
with him was in the September when she located him first some postcards and as a matter of fact,
in October she was given permission to visit him and she spent I think a day visiting
visiting him in Gurs. >> Bill Benson: Peter, before we continue, I'd like to just remind our audience to please share any questions that you have for Peter via the chat feature if you would do that. And I'd
also like to let you know that one of our viewers has just written, "How extraordinary the love
of your family and the bravery of your mother and grandmother. Thank you for sharing." That's
one of the comments from one of our viewers. >> Peter Feigl: I thank all of you for responding. >> Bill Benson: So Peter,
after you were reunited with your father, your mother and you and your father remain together
until the summer of 1942 when you went to a summer camp that was run by the Quakers. What happened
to your parents while you were away at camp? >> Peter Feigl: Well first of all, my parents or my father
was not allowed to do any work. The Vichy government which was the government of it run in
the southern part the so-called unoccupied zone of France passed anti-Jewish laws that were even
more restrictive than the Germans' Nuremberg Laws. And so he wasn't able to to gain any money at all.
My mother was working as a cleaning lady and so forth in order to try to keep us alive, and it was
difficult. Fortunately the Quaker of canteen arranged for me to go to a summer camp which was
located about 20-25 miles away from Auch that summer, and I was very happy to go there.
There were other children and our camp was run by a lady who was a devout Catholic and took
me to, almost daily, to seven o'clock mass with her and in the middle of August somewhere around the
15th or 16th of August my father suddenly appeared. He had ridden on his bicycle which was very
surprising to me considering that he had his heart trouble. And he came to give me a small pouch I
wish I put in my pocket and told me to keep it and he said he had to go back right away to Auch
because Jews there was a curfew and Jews were not allowed to be on the street after dark so as he
climbed on his bicycle we were on the crest of a hill he disappeared from my view and as he did
so I was overcome with a horrible feeling that this is the last time I'll never see him again
and indeed a few days later on the 27th of August Mrs. Cavaillon called me to her office and said,
"'m sorry Peter to have to tell you that your parents were arrested yesterday. I don't know, I
have no further information but don't worry about it. I'm going to organize a novena and at the end
of the nine nine days of prayers I'm sure your parents will be restored to you." And that prompted
me to begin writing a diary in which I was going to record on a daily basis what was happening to
me around me and so forth because as you can see here this is the front cover of the of the diary
I crossed out the word "carnet" which means a small notebook and I wrote their diary dedicated to his
parents and then my name Feigl Pierre and August 27 1942 and on the right side I wrote this diary
is dedicated to his parents in the hope that it will reach them both in good health signs their
their son Pierre Feigl. "Condon" on the 27th of August 1942. >> Bill Benson: And that began of course you're
keeping that diary which we'll talk a little bit more about and and just note that that was
written you know 81 years ago in your hand, Peter. Soon after the arrest of your parents and you find
finding out about that French gendarmes -- police -- came to the summer camp where you were looking
for you. Why'd they come looking for you and how did you evade them? >> Peter Feigl: Well these gendarmes came to
arrest me because I was registered in the Vichy government as being a member of the Jewish race
and they were rounding up the Jews at that time. And fortunately Mrs. Cavaillon, the director
of the camp, made me sick and told the gendarmes that I was too sick to be moved. I was
running a high fever. They confirmed after taking my temperature that indeed I was un-transportable and
this is recorded in my diary and they came back on a couple other occasions meantime Mrs. Cavaillon
wrote to the Quakers in Toulouse and said, "You have to help me. I have this Jewish child in my hand
and the police are here to arrest him." The Quakers told her that ah they have been given permission
to take 500 orphans to the United States and a lot of part of November have Peter fill out these
forms." Which I did and on the religion, I wrote Catholic, and a few days later the Quakers wrote
back and said, "Mrs. Cavaillon, you don't understand. We're trying to save Jewish children." And Mrs.
Cavaillon wrote back to them and said, "No you don't understand." And by the way, there are copies of
this correspondence in the archives that have been found. She wrote, "You don't understand. When I
show Peter's baptismal certificate to the French police they say it's garbage. As far as Vichy is
concerned, that child is of the Jewish race." So the Quakers relented and decided to include me in
this group of 500 orphans and in fact Mrs. Cavaillon then took me personally to Marseille, the port from
which the ship was supposed to leave on the 6th of November. >> Bill Benson: Before we turn to that, I'd like to note
that you continued keeping a diary for over six months at that time. Tell us what you really
focused on in that diary, and if you wouldn't mind reading a couple of excerpts from your diary
from that time to us. >> Peter Feigl: Well, I recorded almost daily what was happening because it was my intention
to show my parents when I'm reunited with them that I behaved as they would have expected me, that
I was a good boy. And so I recorded many things. I also showed that the diary obviously that I was
missing them terribly and I can quote to you for instance on October the 21st 1942 as an example
I wrote. "Nothing. How I would love to hear from you. If only the war would end soon. Not one
aid organization knows where you are." So you can see I was crying out for them hoping
to be reunited someday. On December the 25th, 1942, which is Christmas Day of course, I wrote
the following. I wrote, "Noel, Noel, Noel, this is a day that is normally so
joyous but you are far from me. Where? If we could only celebrate our Christmas quietly
around a very modest Christmas tree, in Auch! Oh well, perhaps next year we will be together
again? We ate well at noon and also in the evening." >> Bill Benson: Thank you for reading thank you Peter
for reading those. Thank you very much. W have a question a question from
one of our viewers named Aashna. And Aashna asks, "What kept you going despite everything? What
helped you push through those darkest days?" >> Peter Feigl: Well 1942, I'm a 13 year old boy. I'm not
particularly introspective. You live from day to day and as I mentioned earlier food the food
was severely rationed and one of the main concerns that all of us had was, will there be anything to
eat tonight and but essentially I just went from day to day and never questioned how come this food
is, here who provided it? You just accepted it. you ate it and hope that tomorrow will be the
same. >> Bill Benson: So thank you Peter. With assistance from the Quakers as you said, and in fact, you were accompanied to Marseille on November 6, 1942 believing that you were going to be leaving for the U.S. as part of this group. But on November 10th, just a few days later Allied forces landed
in North Africa and as a result Nazi forces occupied all of France. This ended your chance for
immigration, your chance to leave. How did you, with that tremendous change in circumstances
and expectations, how did you find shelter? >> Peter Feigl: Well again thanks to the Quakers, they realized
that the problem they realized that the ship wasn't going to sail on the 26th or the 27th
of November and I was moved from one facility to another again. It's all described in my diary.
I did some stupid things in the process as well. But finally in January of 1943, I was given
instructions to take a train, change trains in Lyon and so forth, and ultimately I arrived
on the 15th of January at the midnight at a plateau high of about 3,400 foot elevation just
the roads everything was covered with snow and ice and I was met there by a young man who sort of
put his arm around me and said that his name was Daniel Trocmé, and he was going to look after me. >> Bill Benson: So you ended up in this village as a result of
that. This was a very significant village. Tell us about it. >> Peter Feigl: It was the most significant and most
unusual village. France as I mentioned was also essentially 65 percent -- excuse me, 95% Catholic
and here is a village where the population is about 95% Protestants. They are the descendants
of the early Protestants, also known as Huguenots, in France who were persecuted back in the 16th
century. And there was an infamous massacre, the Saint Bartholomew massacre in Paris where
some 10,000 Protestants were slaughtered by the Catholics at that time. Well, their descendants here
established -- able to settle down and survive. These are people who are strong believers in
the Bible, and some 5,000 residents in Le Chambon and in the surrounding area decided
at the -- inspired by their pastor André Trocmé who told them, "Now is the time to fight
the enemy with the weapons of the spirit." They knew what he meant. And there was a documentary
made about the village and there's this -- I'm very moved about it. There's an elderly lady who shuffles
towards the temple, and she's carrying a Bible in the crook of her arm, and the film producer
asked her, "But Madame, how could you do this? It was very, very dangerous. It was against the law to
help Jews. You could have been executed for doing so." And she, in the most natural way, taps the book
and says, "It says so here that if someone is hungry you share what food you have. If someone needs
shelter you open your door and you provide shelter." And these are remarkable people who could
have enriched themselves by selling what little food they had on the black market, but instead
they fed and sheltered some 3,500 refugees of whom -- excuse me, they sheltered us some 5,000 refugees
of whom about 3,500 where mostly Jewish refugees and I was one among them. You see me here in that
photograph in the group of about 24 children that were sheltered in the home that was managed by
Daniel Trocmé, the cousin of the pastor André. >> Bill Benson: And speaking of Daniel Trocmé, if you
don't mind Peter, tell us about him. >> Peter Feigl: Well, Daniel Trocmé was also in charge. He was about 26 years of age. He was also in charge of another home that had older boy, all boys. And he was
a young man who contacted André Trocmé and told him that he needed to do something
worthwhile of his life, and André told him, "I can use you here. Come here." So he was in charge
of our home as well as the other one. And in June he learned that the Gestapo was raiding the
other home, La Maison des Roches. He rushed there to try to protect the boys in that home. He was promptly
arrested by the Germans at that time and deported with the boys. As we learned many years
later, he was ultimately killed in Majdanek another German extermination camp in
Poland. And his crime was that he was helping Jews and the Germans simply couldn't believe that a
non-Jew would go to the trouble of helping. So that was his crime. And he... >> Bill Benson: Peter, I was struck by the fact that this photograph of Daniel Trocmé was a gift that you made to
the Museum. Tell us about the photograph. >> Peter Feigl: Well the Museum provided me and many other
people with false identity papers, so instead of being Peter Feigl born in Berlin, I became Pierre
Fesson, a nice French name, born in Auch. And I, together with four other boys, for instance
we were sent, after Daniel's arrest, we were sent later to a French boarding school so that we
would be able to continue with our education. And in order to provide these identity papers,
they had to take passport photographs of everyone. And for some reason that to this day I don't
know why, they were extra pictures and we each wound up with three, four, five of these
pictures of everybody else. And I foolishly, against instructions, wrote on the back of those
photographs the real name and the false name of the people. And when I was sent to the high school
in Figeac, against instructions I took them with me because that was my family, if you will. That
was the only family that I had at the time, and I carried those pictures all the time even later
as I fled into Switzerland and was able to bring them with me and donate them to the Museum. >> Bill Benson: That was remarkable that you hung on to those and that you had them in the first place. Peter, you
marked the end of 1942 and the start of 1943 with photographs of your parents in your diary.
But soon after that, your diary suddenly ends on February 1st, 1943. Tell us why you stopped writing
in that diary. >> Peter Feigl: Well the diary ended on the 1st of February, 1943 when Daniel Trocmé saw me writing and he wanted to know, "What are you writing?" He looked at it and he realized that it was a diary which contained a number of dates, names, addresses of people. And had the diary fallen into
the hands of the police, it would have been curtain for those people, so he confiscated the
diary and it disappeared for the next 50 or so years. >> Bill Benson: I hope we get a chance to talk a little
bit about that. Peter, the left hand side of your diary as we see here is written in French and
the right page is written in German. Why was that? >> Peter Feigl: Well that was done specifically in order to
prevent my other children with whom I was, especially the boys who were nosy, from
digging through my writings and being able to read what I was writing there. So I decided
to continue writing in a secret language which they and the police wouldn't be able to
understand. I continued and wrote it in German. >> Bill Benson: As you mentioned, you were given this false
identity of Pierre Fesson born in Auch, but you had the same birth date. No change
in your birthday. Why was that? >> Peter Feigl: Well we were instructed that if we are stopped for an identity check, the police will look at the papers and they will ask first, "What's your birthday?" And most of us
instinctively after 10, 12, 15 years, whatever your age, you will blurt out your real birth date and
they didn't want you want us to be, "Umm, uhh..." No, that would have been a dead giveaway, so they kept the
same birthday and they told us that all we had to do is remember the new name and just repeat
it, repeat it. That is your new name, Pierre Fesson, and your place of birth is Auch. Auch, France. >> Bill Benson: That's what you had to remember. >> Peter Feigl: That was drummed into us. >> Bill Benson: You stayed in Le Chambon for 10 months and in
the fall of 1943 you were sent to a boarding school in the town of Figeac. Tell us about your
time in Figeac. >> Peter Feigl: Again, in Figeac we were able to continue our education. I was concerned about
the fact that of the other four boys that came with me from Le Chambon, there were two of them
who spoke with a heavy Polish or Jewish accent, so I kept myself apart from them as much as possible
in order not to be identified with them. And many years later I learned that there had to
have been someone at the school who knew very well that we were not native Frenchmen, and it turned
out that it was the principal of that school who was also, by the way, recognized by Yad
Vashem as Just [Righteous] Among Nations but at great personal risk to himself and his family he protected us
and never gave us away. >> Bill Benson: Were there other Jewish children there besides you? >> Peter Feigl: To my knowledge only
I and the other four boys who came from Le Chambon. Yes. The five of us. >> Bill Benson: You started writing back in
your diary again in January 1944. What motivated you to start up again? >> Peter Feigl: Essentially the same thing that motivated me originally. I was still hoping someday,
somehow to reconnect with my parents. And since Daniel talked me wasn't there to keep
me from writing, I began a second diary on the 1st of January, and again kept the record on
a daily basis of what was happening to me, what what my grades were in school, what books I read,
what I did in my free time, who my friends were and so forth. And I kept this up and for instance
on the 12th of May of 1944,I recorded that the town had been invaded by a SS Division,
Germans, who rolled into town and ordered all the males between the ages of 16 and 54 to report
for assignment to a labor detachment. Well at this point, I was a little smarter than I was when I was
in Marseille, and even though I hadn't turned 16 yet, I decided I better lie low. I was still going
to church at the time. I was an altar boy in the adjacent church so I knew my way in there and I
hid in the bell tower for 24 hours. From the bell tower up there I was able to see in the distance
where the the males were assembled and loaded onto trucks and taken out of town. And after
about 24 hours when the last truck left I came down and I was a contacted by a French Underground,
essentially Jewish fighters, who had masqueraded as Boy Scouts, and they told me that it was much too
dangerous for me to remain in town and to be ready to move on a moment's notice and they will give me
instructions where to go. >> Bill Benson: And of course, eventually not long after in May 1944 you were able to
escape to Switzerland and remain there until 1946. How did you make it? How did you get
to Switzerland, and how did you know you were safe? >> Peter Feigl: Well on the 22nd of May, I got instructions
to take a train again, told where to get off. I actually was part of a group of some 24 kids who
didn't know one another. We were spread all over the train and there was sort of a mother hen that
was keeping an eye on us. She had been doing this for quite some time already and in fact the
German Gestapo was just looking for her. Anyhow, we were instructed to get off the train
in Virey, a small town, a small village, and there are two passeurs -- those were people
smugglers -- would take care of us. They gave us instructions on when to cross, where to cross,
how to cross the border into Switzerland. And on a sign when there was a change
of the guards, we were to go over the first row of barbed wire fence and that would we would
then find ourselves in the so-called No Man's Land. You had to run through the No Man's Land and get
over to the next barbed wire fence which is the Swiss barbed wire fence. We got over that one and
once we were on the other side, there was a Swiss soldier who arrested us and ordered
us to get behind that building that you see there. Of course we were illegal immigrants, and later
on that day, that evening, I drew that sketch of the border crossing. It was burned into my mind. And
you can see on the bottom it says "France", that's the French side and there's the first row of barbed
wire. You can see the word "No Man's Land" and "Suisse" written in it. That's the Swiss side. And then over
the second barbed wire fence and then Sorral Roman 2, that was the border crossing station on the
Swiss side. Once we were on the Swiss side, we were loaded onto trucks and the Swiss took us to
a triage center, a small camp outside of Geneva where they were going to decide what to do with us.
And on the way to interrogation someone, an older person, warned me and said, "Be very careful what you
tell the Swiss authorities. They are sending the Jews right back into the waiting arms of the
French and the Germans." So during interrogation I pulled out my baptismal certificate and when
I showed it to the Swiss interrogator, he looked at it and he said, "Ah, tu es catholique. Bienvenue en Suisse!" "You're a Catholic. Welcome to Switzerland!" So for me fortunately, that was the end of the war. My father
had given me the name of a business associate of his, a Swiss business associate. I gave that name to
the Swiss authorities. They contacted that family and that family decided to take me in. So I was
given a refugee identity booklet and was allowed to join that family in Bern, Switzerland. And one
of the first things they did is they bought me a new suit because the clothing that I had were terribly torn and so forth. So here you see me in a very fancy brand new suit and brand new shoes. >> Bill Benson: Peter do you
recall what you were feeling when you closed your diary on May 22nd, 1944 with quote, "Then
I sleep soundly in a free country," end quote? >> Peter Feigl: I was old enough at that time to realize that
once in Switzerland, Swiss country, that had been out of the war, I was now safe. I wasn't going
to be arrested or persecuted and it's another way of saying, "I now sleep in freedom. I'm in a
free country." >> Bill Benson: Peter, we have a question submitted from Instagram, and the question is, "When and how
did you find out what happened to your parents?" >> Peter Feigl: A good question, of course. Shortly after they
were arrested, there were two postcards that Mrs. Cavaillon, the director of the home the summer
camp, received from them, begging them to look after me. The last card was from a place
called Drancy which is a suburb of Paris, and supposedly they were being sent eastward
for quote, "resettlement." No one really knew what that meant at that time. Many years later of
course I found out that Drancy was the place from which all the Jews that had been rounded up
in France were sent to Auschwitz. And I did not find out about Auschwitz until January of 1945
when the Soviet troops who were moving from the East and winning over the Germans, they came
across the Auschwitz camp. And Switzerland, or the Swiss press had reports, photographs, and so forth
of what was reported from Poland, and when I read those articles or heard about it, I
realized that this might have been the the fate of my parents. It wasn't until years later that
I had any documentary proof that indeed that was their fate. They had been arrested as
I said on the 26th of August, they arrived in Drancy on the 2nd of September,
and they were loaded onto Convoy number seven -- 28 -- Convoy 28 on the 4th of September,
and arrived in Auschwitz on the 6th of September. >> Bill Benson: Peter, you mentioned earlier
of course that your diary, your first diary, was confiscated from you for
good reason. But it was gone. And so we have a viewer named Aileen who asks, "How
did you get reconnected with your diary?" >> Peter Feigl: Good question. As I mentioned, there was a
documentary made of the village of Le Chambon, a documentary entitled "Weapons of the Spirit," and
I appear -- I have a brief scene in it where I'm interviewed. When that movie was shown in French
movie theaters in 1989, I received a letter from a man in Paris asking me
whether I was a Pierre Feigl who had dedicated a diary to his parents. I suspected it might have been a scam,
but at the time I was crossing the Atlantic every four or five weeks, so I stopped in Paris, and sure
enough he had my diary. "Where did you get this?" He said, "Well, I'm a collector of such artifacts and
memorabilia, and I bought it on the flea market in the south of France about three or four years
after the end of the war. And by the way, I read it and I suspected that you probably had been sent
to Auschwitz and killed, and I published your diary in France." Well, I wanted my diary back. So
he told me he was a poor man and he had to pay to have it published and so forth. Anyhow after some
negotiation, he agreed to sell it back to me for $265 dollars. >> Bill Benson: But he made you pay for it, he made you
pay for your diary. >> Peter Feigl: I had to pay for it cash and that's how I got it back. >> Bill Benson: That's truly remarkable. Peter, we're
we're close to the end so I have just one more question for you. As we face rising antisemitism,
related conspiracy theories, and Holocaust denial, please tell us what we can learn from what you
experienced during the Holocaust. >> Peter Feigl: I think the most important thing here is something that I tell students when I speak in schools. People are taught consciously or subconsciously to hate
other people and in my case as I told you, I was taught to hate Jews even though I was considered
as being one of them. When I speak in schools I tell them, there isn't anyone in this classroom
who has not either been bullied, was the bully, or witnessed being bullied and the next
time that you witness such a thing, it behooves you to stop it right then and there, dead in its
tracks. Why should you do that? I'll give you two good reasons. The first reason is because it is the
right thing to do and everybody knows right from wrong. The second reason is that it's self-preservation.
You might someday be in a minority. Why is that important? Well the Germans -- the Nazis -- in order
to gain and retain power, needed someone to blame for everything that they could not achieve, for
everything that went wrong. So they decided the best minority for them was the Jews. They were less
than one percent of the total population and they were the fault of everything else. And it is not
inconceivable that you, listeners, and you in that classroom might not someday find yourself
in a situation where the economy is going bad in the country, high unemployment, somebody comes
along and promises to solve all your problems, and the only problem is the people who are really
to blame for all the problems we're having is you in the back row with freckles and red hair, or
you with the dark skin, or you who speak with a foreign accent. So you might find yourself in that
minority. So as German minister... >> Bill Benson: Goebbels? >> Peter Feigl: Yeah. As he said famously, he was first supporting Hitler then he decided it was wrong. >> Bill Benson: Oh, Pastor Niemauer? >> Peter Feigl: Niemoller. Niemoller. Pastor Niemoller put it this way: "When they came to arrest the Jews -- excuse me, when they came to arrest the socialists, I said nothing. I'm not a socialist. When they
arrested the unionists I said nothing, I'm not one. When they arrested the Jews, I'm not a Jew. I
said nothing. When they came to arrest me, there was no one left, but there was no one left to
speak up on my behalf." And that is the lesson. The next time you see it happening, stop it dead in his
track or else you might find yourself someday in the minority that's being pursued. >> Bill Benson: Peter, thank you
so much for spending this hour with us. We could have gone on, I think, all afternoon. I wish
we could share all that happened once you've made it to safety and left Switzerland,
but thank you so much for sharing with us today. >> Peter Feigl: Thank you very much, Bill, for interviewing me, and thank you very much to the audience for listening to me. Thank you very much. Bless you all. Thank you. >> Bill Benson: I would like to take a moment to thank our donor. First Person is made possible through generous
support from the Louis Franklin Smith Foundation. I'd also like to invite you to join our next
First Person program. Please tune in with us on June 21st, 2023 at 1:00pm Eastern Time for
a conversation with Holocaust survivor and Museum volunteer Henry Weil. Henry and his family
were forced out of their apartment in Vienna, Austria after Nazi Germany annexed the country.
Learn how the Weil family managed to escape Vienna as it became more dangerous for Jews, and
make it to America. Thank you for watching today.
