I'm Simon Sinek and you're watching
behind the brand with Brian. let's talk about some of the key
pillars or characteristics of the people who are successful. You know, you talk about. Charismatic people. I think of Gary V you know, who's
dogmatic, but also super crass charismatic and a very outspoken leader. Then you have someone like Susan Cain
who writes for us introverts you know, the Zuckerbergs and, you know, whoever
else is sort of more behind the camera kind of person talks about some of
the pillars of successful leaders. I get asked about this quite a lot, so. The important characteristics
to be a great leader. And you hear the usual, you
know, charisma, vision, you know, these kinds of things. And you're right in, I mean, I know some
great leaders, some who have charisma and some who don't, they're quiet and sort
of walk down the sides of holes, you know I know some great leaders, some who have
big Steve jobs, the envisions, and some who don't and yet they're still highly
effective and very, very good leaders. The one characteristic, I am
very comfortable saying that all great leaders have to. Is courage. It's a very, very, very
hard job being a leader. It's very, very hard standing up for
what you believe in waking up to do that every day, sometimes against overwhelming
pressures from the outside, and sometimes from the insides of our organizations. Sometimes it's lonely. Sometimes it's thankless and
sometimes you put yourself at risk. When you speak truth to power,
you could get your head cut off. And when you try to do the right
thing, you're the one who could get in trouble or lose your job over that. So the risks of. So the best leaders, the
most effective and inspiring leaders, they all have courage. That's one, one thing I'm
comfortable saying they all have. I love that statement. One of my all time favorite
books in addition to all of yours is Bernie Brown's book, right? Who dresses, courage. And I love what she talks about, you
know, that measurement, the depth that we're willing to be vulnerable is the
measurement of our courage, basically. How do we get courage? You know I think about
this all the time, because. In some things I'm courageous and
another things I'm not, and maybe I'm crossing or blurring the lines between
willpower sometimes, you know, I think about just simple fitness things. Like I want to get up in the morning,
but yeah, I don't feel like it, or the weather's not great or ideal. And so, you know, I cave in or
something, but how do you get. So I don't believe for one
second, that courage is this, this internal fortitude that you dig
down deep and find the courage. Like I don't think that's true. I think courage is actually external. When we know beyond a shadow of a doubt
that someone believes in us or someone has our back or someone cares about
us, or we know that someone will be. When we struggle or when we doubt
ourselves, there'll be there to say, no, no, I believe in you, you got this. That's what gives us the courage
to act the knowledge that there's someone by our side, someone,
I, you know, a wind in our sail. And that's when we find the courage when
we work extra hard, because we want to prove to someone that their believing. It was worth it, that their
sacrifice for us was worth it. I, I get the opportunity to spend
time with men and women in uniform. Those who've actually risked their
lives to save the lives of others. And I asked them, why would you do it? No one would have ordered
you to do what you did. No one would have faulted you,
if you didn't, you have a family of kids, why did you do it? And they all give me the same. Which is, they know that they say, I know
that someone would have done it for me. I know that they would
have done it for me. They would have done the same for me. In other words, their courage
came from the knowledge that someone had their backs. That's why they acted courageously. And even when we see someone act with
courage, a leader who acts with courage that inspires us to act with courage
yet, again, it's an external thing, and this is one of the reasons to me
together, as better as such a powerful message, which is only when we act too. Even if that just means someone who's
in the background will we have the courage to change our law in life
and even change there's the world. Yeah. So I want to break that
down just a little bit. When you were talking before you said
men and women in uniform, I imagined a Navy seal kind of in that Navy seal
training, which I can only imagine. You know, you're out there with
the logs in the water and it's late at night and you're shivering. Right. And, and yeah, you're, you're
with all of your comrades, right? It is kind of a lonely
proposition because it is sort of survival of the fittest, right? It's every man for himself, you
can't help your brother or your sister in that circumstance. So. I'm just curious about the, the
courage thing, how that happens. And then I was also thinking
about myself, right? So for 15 years I worked on the
client side of brand marketing. I worked for the studios. I had a $30 million P and
L I was fat and happy. You know, someone picked up my dry
cleaning and, you know, I had a car allowance and, you know, I bought all this
media and I did all these great things. And then I got inspired to
become a creator and I cut the. And that was about 10 years ago now. And that moment that I cut
the cord was, and has been a very lonely journey at times. Right. I feel alone. I feel somewhat disconnected and
sometimes, you know, I want courage, but like, you know, how do I, how do I get it? You know what I mean? So let's say the Navy seal question first. Okay. Your assertion that it's a lonely
experience is not entirely true. You will find that they, the leaders of
those groups will inspire the others. They'll call out to them. We can do this. Come on, you got this. And something very strange happens when
when officers quit cause its officers and enlisted who all go through buds
together, the Navy seal selection process. And when an almost invariably,
when an officer decides to quit two or three enlisted guys
will quit immediately with him. In other words, that
they look to that person. If they stick with it,
they'll stick with it. But if they get. I can quit. Right? And, and there was a Navy
seal who was interviewed. He was asked, what kind of
person makes it through buds? And he replied, I can't tell you the
kind of person that makes it through buds, but I can tell you the kind of
person who doesn't make it through. He said the, the guys that come
in with bulging muscles covered in tattoos want to prove to
everybody how, how strong they are. None of those guys make it through. He said the preening leaders
who just delegate it, all their responsibility, none of those guys. He said the star college athletes, who've
never been pushed the core of their being. None of those guys make it through. He said some of the guys who make
it through are skinny and scrawny, some of the guys who make it through,
you see them shivering out of fear. He says, but all of the guys who make
it through when they're physically exhausted, when they're emotionally
exhausted, when they have nothing left to get it somehow some way they're
able to dig down deep inside of them to find the energy, to help the guy. Those are the guys who become seals. So it is the power. It is absolutely that. So our most elite warriors on the planet
are not necessarily the strongest, not necessarily the smartest, not
necessarily the fittest, but they are most capable of taking care of each other. And that's what makes him the most. And it's true for all of us. Those who are the highest performing
over the longterm, because remember there are bad leaders who can win and
there are good leaders who can fail. I'm not talking about a win at a loss. People always say this to me,
but they'll cite some company that's doing extremely well. Yeah. For now. Let's see how that lasts. You know a company that's well-known
to have poor leadership, let's say the lasting, the lasting
organizations that the welded or. There's intensely
powerful, strong comradery. There's intensely powerful
trust amongst the people between the masses and leadership. There's the sense that we want to do
right by the company, because we know the company would do right by us. When we don't believe that the company or
its leaders would do right by us, then we work hard to protect ourselves or advance
ourselves irrespective of the long-term impact it may have on the organization. So, so absolutely. Even in the seals even through buds
training is absolutely a co-operative and comrade built organization. And it goes for us to, you know,
this is why I'm a huge fan of sort of pure organizations or
mentor, mentor relationships. It's why having good friends is important. You know, you, you know, the friends
who tell us we're crazy, you'll never be able to do it where you're nuts. Why don't you go back and get a job? We start doubting ourselves, but the. You're inspiring me. I don't have the courage that you have
to cut the cord like that and go do it. That's amazing. You got to stick with it. You got to stick with it, right? It's those friends, it's
those relationships. Any successful CEO any successful
leader will talk about their mothers, their fathers, their friends,
their wives, their husbands, that stuck with them believed in them. Those relationships are absolutely. You can have a limited
success if you go it alone. And and I think it's an unhealthy success. There are, there are, there are leaders
who do it, but they take a huge number of pills in the morning and depression
is a large part of their being. It doesn't have to be that way. Yeah. And maybe there's a bit of a. Trial period, you know, like kind of
breaking through the atmosphere, you have to kind of get up there first and then
break through, you know, kind of approving period, even to your support system. I mean, I've talked to Seth Godin and he
said at first, you know, my wife was not supportive and neither was her mother. And you know, to me, I kind of
read through the lines and I kind of felt his his pain a little
bit because I guarantee you. Had someone in his life at that time
or previously who, who liked him for his nuttiness and for his big ideas. Yeah. But I guess I don't want to
pay that in a negative picture. I think, you know, kind
of this force, right? Like that's sort of part of it, like the
Disneys or the Martin Luther king Jr. Who, you know, they had their
naysayers and people didn't believe the nonbelievers. Sure. You know, that kind of created the
friction along with their support system, those who believed in
them and just their pure passion. Slash, well, there's a
stubbornness to being a visionary. Right. There's a stubbornness to it. And I think I shared that stubbornness,
you know I think one of the things that, that stubbornness does is it,
is it, it, it instigates or catalyzes a, a resourcefulness, like, I, it's
almost a fetish, you know, when somebody tells me, you know, it can't be done. Give me 20 minutes right now. Right, right, right. And that's my spirituality and the
reason I sort of want to bring it up. I am not super analytical and I don't
need a roadmap, but I do know, I know, I know a lot of people who watch
this show and pause for a second. I know that there's maybe not a roadmap
or a, you know, step 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 to, you know, how do I get courage? But I, I know that a lot of people
watching this show they're entrepreneurs and they're in the struggle. Right. You and I know the
struggle I've been there. Right. Go back there on a regular basis. I'm there right now. Right? Like every day. Street fight. And and so that's also part of it, right? Like that's what Kanye was singing about. Right. Or, you know, whatever doesn't
kill us makes us stronger. And, and all of these things, which
are absolutely true, you know, this opposition is necessary in everything
that we do, that, that you can't have success without the failure. You can't have the right without
some of the wrongs along. Well, I, you know, I'm a great believer
that you know, entrepreneurship is not necessarily, and by the way, I'm
a great believer that, that that being an entrepreneur and being a small
business owner are the same thing. Like there are entrepreneurs inside
large companies and not all small business owners are entrepreneurs. They're just small business owners, right? Being an entrepreneur is being
a problem solver and you find them in all kinds of places. Richard Branson's an
entrepreneur does not own. Right. But, but I don't for one second, believe
that entrepreneurship is necessarily better or worse than having a job. It's about balance and it's the kind
of lifestyle that we choose to live. You know, entrepreneurs absolutely have
highs high, high at the highest of highs, but they also have the lowest of lows. That's the. Whereas, if you have a, a stable
corporate job, you know, your Lowe's just aren't as low as an
entrepreneur, but neither your highs. Right? And so it's a very, both
equations are balanced. And so I think when people romanticize
entrepreneurship or quitting to start their own business, they, they, they
romanticize the joy of the highs. And then some of them don't
expect the intensity of the. And as you said yourself, you know, the
most successful entrepreneurs that you and I have both met, all of them have
either scraped or were hit rock bottom. And I think that's one of the things
that makes us myself included. I think that's one of the things
that makes us some less afraid of it. Yeah. It's not a blind, it's not a blind,
there's not a, there's no blind courage. Like I hit the bottom and I knew
that I could survive from the bottom. So I don't necessarily fear. Yeah. And I don't want to go do it
again, but I'm glad it happened. My mind works in, in metaphors or images. And I imagine, you know, the higher, the
cliff that you jump off onto this tramp. The higher yield bounce back up. Right. But you have to go low or from
a high distance down in order to shoot back up high or higher. Right. So I also have just experienced this
courage thing where, you know, I've tried this courage thing on and I like it. And I found that it's kind
of like a muscle, right? Like the more you do it, the more you use
it, the more courageous you feel, whether that's, you know, being comfortable
with being uncomfortable or if it's. Oh, I was just through that. There's no problem handling
this the next time. And I'm glad you talked
about courage is a muscle. I talked about leadership. And like any muscle that we choose
to build you, don't start by lifting an extremely heavy weight. You will hurt yourself,
you will break yourself. And it may only happen once. Right? Right. And you wouldn't want to jump off the
highest cliff into that trampoline before you get a sense of what it's like to
jump off a low cliff onto the trampoline. You have to know the trampoline. Leadership's the same encourages
the same, which is you don't see. With the biggest weight, you start
with small weights and you get comfortable and you build the muscle. And as you build a muscle, you
also build your confidence. And as you build your confidence,
you can lift heavier weight. And as you lift heavier weight, you build
the muscle again, and you also learn how to deal with pushing and pain, but your
body's in shape and you can take it. So I think there's a big difference
between jumping out of a plane and jumping out of a plane with a parachute, you
know, both have the same sort of madness, but one is a little more secure than. It's the exact same analogies as,
as, as your, as your muscle analogy. So, yeah, I, I believe courage is a
muscle and you work your way up to it. You practice. There are some who take the big jump off
the big cliff and I call those lottery winners, you know, are they genius
entrepreneur problem solvers, ma maybe, but very often a lot of those people
enjoy the success once they lifted the heavy weight once and it worked out for
them, but they struggled to do it again. Yeah. I mean, you can throw the hail Mary. It can be done and it can be caught. It can be done. It doesn't always get caught. No, it does not. Yeah. But yeah, it does definitely bills. So what happens if you're a leader,
you know, and you want to try to inspire people, but it's not working. What do you think is not working? What is some of these
obstacles to being inspired? What blocks us. So it's a great question. I think sometimes we think it's about
us and when somebody says, I'm trying to inspire you and you won't be inspired
by me, you know, it's like, well, is it about them or is it about you? You know? And, and I think that when you're
trying too hard, like anything it's like going on a date and I'm like,
I'm trying to do everything you want. And you still don't like me. I'm like, well, it's not about them. It's about you. And I think there needs to be a slowing
down in a listening that needs to. Which very often is missing. I'll tell you a quick story to, to
capture that there's Lieutenant Colonel, I know in the United States air force
who actually I think she might be a Colonel now, but when three things
happened to her all at once that any one of them would be difficult and she
had all three happened to her at once. Once she was promoted to Lieutenant
Colonel she's now officially management, she was given her first command and
she was deployed to Iraq for 360. All at once. And she took over base
operations at a lot. So that's all of the housing,
the food, the fun runs, morale events, laundry, all of that. She was responsible for all that. And it was a notorious. Poorly run sort of thing before
apparently previous bosses had been fired. She's an eight type high performer,
super ambitious got promoted below the zone, which means got promoted early. And she was, she says, I'm
gonna, I'm going to fix it. She student of leadership read
everything, knew everything. And she was going to be the
one who was gonna fix it. And she had the exact same thing. I'm going to go in there and
inspire my people and it wasn't working and she pushed hard at her,
inspire her people and it wasn't. And for the first six months of her being
in Iraq she went to bed every night and cried herself to sleep because she was
failing and she didn't know what to do and everything she tried, wasn't working. Her, her, her, her reports
didn't take her seriously. They didn't obey her. I mean, it was like, it was really bad. And so six months in, she gave up,
she literally gave up and she accepted the fact that she wouldn't be the
success that she set out to be. But she was stuck there for
another six months and Even though I don't want to be here anymore. And I regret everything I'm stuck here. So, and I failed. I might as well use my time to at
least help them enjoy the time that they're here, my people cause they're
also away from their families and they don't want to be here, there. So I'm going to devote all my time,
not to succeeding or inspiring them. I'm going to go into all of my time to
ensure that they enjoy their day and that they get the most out of every day. And strange things started. All of a sudden camaraderie, increased
morale, increased trust, increased. They took care of each
other performance increase. And by the end, she was a huge success
and, and the love and camaraderie that that group will have for
each other was through the roof. In other words, they were inspired. And so I think to inspire someone, isn't,
it's a funny thing to do rather than to set out, to take care of someone. There's an, there's an empathy
that goes along with inspiration. And I think that, you know, in our desire
to inspire and our desire to leave. Somewhat selfishly sounding things. We forget that leadership is really
an act of service and inspiration as an act of service, you know? And the service part
is the important part. It's the other person, it's the receiving. And, you know, I keep telling
you everything you want to hear. Like, I keep telling you,
but you're not listening. That's the problem. You're not hearing anything. All talk, you know? So yeah, I think, I think that
for people who are trying too hard to inspire, and it's not what. I think it's become their goal to inspire
rather than actually paying attention to what other people it's brilliant. The light bulb went on. I mean, I'm, I'm a father. And that's a lot of the
ways I parent my kids. I don't do a lot of teaching or preaching. It's all by example. And I do a whole lot more listening. It's sort of like 90 10 or 95, 5. I'm just listening. I'm just there and I'm
caring and I'm truly loving. And it's also custom made, right? Like, so the sun needs a little something
different than the daughter needs. And so I'm tailor making
it for each of them. It's not a one size fits all, and
it's all about caring and loving and helping them navigate their life. Isn't it. And it's exact same thing in an
organization, which is the best leaders, see those in their care
as their children, as their second. Where you give them love and devotion,
and you want to teach them a skillset, discipline them when necessary so that
they may grow up and accomplish more than you thought even possible for yourself. And not every person is the
same inside the organization. And some people can go quicker
and some people can go, you know, have to go slower. And some people are more shoot from the
hip and some people are more analytical and it's not a question of right or wrong. It's a question of, you have
to be able to lead both those personalities, all of those things. And you do sometimes have to adapt and
what you give to one you don't need to, or don't have to give to another that
that's just how it works as part of it. That's part of the game. Yeah. And the good leaders don't
do this one size fits all. You know, it's, it's it's the same as. You know, it's, it's not like
I, I teach and you learn you, you bend and mold and adapt. Right. You know, and some, some people need
a little more encouragement than some needs to be put down sometimes slightly. And it's the same kind of thing. It's a balancing act. So it's, it's a great analogy. It's absolutely a great analogy. Well, we've come back full circle then. Haven't we? The vulnerability? Yes. Because in order to be courageous,
we've gotta be vulnerable enough to not puff our chest up and be the leader or. Like your military friend who
probably was, you know, type a very organized how to plan. Sometimes you got to make a new plan. That's not working. One thing that I learned
from a Marine is no plan ever succeeds contact with the enemy. And I think at the same business, which
has no plan ever goes according to plan. So it's like, if that's all you got. Yeah. It's, you know, there's an adaptability. It's not that it's not that we
should have no plans that we should learn to be adaptable and
understand that things change. But you know, vulnerability
doesn't mean crying. It doesn't mean like, oh, I suck. You know, that's not
what vulnerability means. Right? Vulnerability means
admitting I made a mistake. Vulnerability means admitting. This is, I, I didn't expect
to ever succeed to this level. And I don't know, like
this is beyond myself. You know, vulnerability means admitting
that I'm scared or uncertain or confused, and we call it vulnerability
because you risk humiliation. And if you're an employee
you risk getting fired. I mean, in some poorly run organizations
where admitting mistakes or admitting vulnerability literally puts you
at risk, which is madness to me, that's a poorly run organization. W w that's that's the thing
that boggles my mind too, right? Like whether it's a head football coach,
Or, you know, military, military leader, like, do we all want to live in a world
that we're not able to make a mistake or to do we all want to live in a world? Or do we actually live in this world
where the leader doesn't make mistakes? I mean, we're kidding ourselves. This is, and this is the
falling of leadership. And this is why we call
somebody leader by the way. Not because at the top of the
organization, like I know many people who sit at the highest levels of
organizations who aren't leaders, they have authority, and that's why we do
as they tell us, but we wouldn't be. The reason we call someone leaders
because they're the one with the courage to take the risk, to do the vulnerable
thing first, to go into a direction that may fail, to admit that they need
help to admit that they made a mistake. That act is an act of leadership. It's one of the greatest
acts of leadership there is. And when we demonstrate, when
we lead and express our ability, then guess what everybody else
does, they do the same thing. I mean, I learned this
lesson the hard way. I thought nobody wanted it. The reason is, is because I never asked
for help or admitted that I needed it. The minute I was willing to admit
that I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know everything. I have huge gaping blind spots
and holes in my skillset. As soon as I admitted those
things, people rushed to help me. The reason they didn't offer
or offer help before is because they didn't think I needed it. Cause I was the one busy
lying, hiding, and faking, pretending that I knew all the. Yeah, it was my fault. Not theirs. It wasn't the lack of available help. It was my resistance to
admitting what's that song. That's a sting wrote awhile back,
you know, like a fish out of water. It flaps away from the helping
hands and the irony is right. Like all it needs is those
hands to put her back into the water and yet it flops away. And that's, I think it's ironic. Right? Depends how it lands. Dry land. It's true. Hooked onto the dry land, not a helping
hand, but, but the metaphor is well taken. Yeah, I mean, but I, in many ways I feel
the same way when I feel the most scared. I want to go into a shell. I don't want help, which is the
exact opposite of what I need, which is why the single most valuable
characteristic of leadership is courage. Yeah. I have appreciated this enlightening talk
about inspiration and I, it also kind of. Kind of a spiritual chord that I
remember from another discussion, which I talked to Bethany Hamilton,
do you know, Bethany is Bethany. There's a movie made out of her
called a soul surfer and Bethany's a professional surfer and she
lost her arm in a shark attack. And within, I think a couple
of months, maybe a month. And she's amazing. She's back, she's young. I mean she's 13 or 14. Yeah. And within a month after getting her
arm bitten off by a target shark, she's back in the water surfing. Right. And And I talked to her about, you
know, how she was able to do this. And it's a lot of the same kinds of
conversations about courage and support. I bet you had a remarkable support
system in her family and her friends. They helped her find the courage. Yeah, it wasn't some, again, I
go back to my previous point. It wasn't some deep internal
fortitude that she did all by herself. It was a support structure of people who
loved and cared about her and encouraged her and were there for her and said,
whether you do, whether you don't, we will support you regardless of your. You know, we got you, I'll go with you,
you know, I'll be by your side, you know, all of that gives the courage. Yeah. What should we do if we're on the
receiving end of this new inspiration, it's hard sometimes, right? If we, you know, there's all
kinds of layers of, you know, She doesn't deserve that or he,
you know, I'm better than he is. And so there's this kind of from the
bottom up kind of pride, if you will. I tend to find that those kinds
of points of view and dispositions tend to be in poorly led groups. There's, there's more gossip and
politics in a poorly led organization than in a well led organization
and a well led organization. People take joy and pride in
the success of their teammates. There, if anything. They don't do when they get
recognized, they want to distribute it and give it away. And there's an excessive amount
of like, it's really not me. You know, you find that. Well, but if there's a lot of
that, I tend to, I don't actually look at the people I'm looking at. Who's leading those people. If that, if that is perfect. Yeah. And I don't know a lot about
what Elon is doing, but I see him making lots of mistakes in public. And I, you know, I see
a lot of transparency. I don't know if it's a hundred. But it seems like he and his
people are not afraid to do stuff that might not work. Right. And so how can we, if we're on the
receiving end, what can be our mindset? How can we change the paradigm? How can we think differently? Because all these years, right,
we've been taught to, you know, to, to kill, to kill the leader so that
we can become the leader, right. To do whatever we can to. Okay, well, we need to have,
but this is totally different. I mean, you, you're pointing to,
you're pointing to the exact kind of world that I'm trying to undo. Right. You know, a lot of the leadership
principles that businesses obey and business business business practices
that we consider quote, unquote normal today are, are not normal
they're theories that were popularized in the eighties and nineties. The concept of shareholder supremacy
was a theory proposed in the late 1970s. Right. The idea of using mass layoffs to balance. Did not exist in the United States
prior to the 1980s, the whole idea of ranking yang that people like
Jack Welch popularized and, and and pitting your people against you. Like internal competition versus
competing with each other as opposed to competing against each other. Right. These were, these were all proposed
and popularized in the boom years of the eighties and nineties. This is not a Republican or Democrat
thing cause you had a Republicans and a Democrat in presidency. In those in those years
they were boom years. It was a kinder, gentler, cold war. We weren't hiding them, you know,
running drills to hide under our desks. It was a relatively peaceful time. Those types of. These are not boom use anymore. These are not a kinder, gentler years. We're in a world of global tension
and those theories just are outdated. And companies that think that those
ideas, the concepts of shareholder supremacy, you know, putting the
interest of a disinterested external constituent ahead of people inside. That's like a coach prioritizing the needs
of the fans over the players is madness to me using mass layoffs to balance. In one decision destroys, trust and
cooperation amongst the group and encourages self-interest and selfishness
and building of walls and lack of vulnerability and lack of courage. Right. The, we have to undo these theories. We have to undo them. We have to go back to a time where
proper leadership, good long-term effective leadership existed. I that's, all of my work is devoted to
undoing the madness from the eighties. Yeah, so it sounds like you're working
on the leaders and that's great. How can I, as a follower
be a good follower? I, so I, so I sort of, I,
to me, leadership is not a position of rank, right? It has nothing to do with rank. Leadership is the decision to take care of
the person, to the left of me and to take care of the person, to the right of me. That's what leadership is. I see the best leaders
are actually the best. The best leaders see themselves in
service to a cause bigger than themselves. And when you ask them, are you a leader? They will see themselves as servants
devoted to some higher calling. And so you, you keep saying to
me, but what about the rest of us? No, no, no, no. I don't necessarily think
someone would rank as a leader. In fact, look at public companies. They claim to be leaders. And yet they do what a 27 year old
analyst who is putting his self interest ahead of the interests of
the companies they're doing, what that analyst community is telling him to do. That's not leadership,
that's not leadership at all. Where's the courage in that? Where's the courage to
stand up to wall street. It's the total opposite of leadership. Leadership is the choice to take care
of the people, to the left of me and to take care of the people, to the right
of me, to see that very succeeded, they advance that they do well. Sometimes at the expense of
my own interests, I get it. Now we are all the leaders. We are all leaders, we're all followers. So the intern to the president CEO,
the intern has to be thinking about the person to his left and the person to her. Right. And when we all do that, correct,
then we are better together. And like being a parent, that's
the analogy we've used a couple of times in this interview,
everyone has the capacity to be. Doesn't mean, everybody wants to be
a parent and it doesn't mean everyone should be a parent just means you
have the capacity to be a parent. Leadership is the same. Every one of us has the
capacity to be a leader. It doesn't mean everybody wants that. And it doesn't mean that everybody
should, right, but the capacity exists. It is hard work and very often
comes at great personal sacrifice. It is sometimes lonely. It is sometimes thankless when everything
goes right, you have to distribute the, the, the Distribute the the the
credit, when everything goes wrong, you have to take all the accountability. That's a crummy deal. Right. So, but yeah, I don't, when I
talk about leadership, I'm not talking about rank or position. I'm simply talking about
disposition and choice. Yeah. Amazing stuff. We've been spending a lot of
time with Simon Sinek, Simon. Thanks for coming by. Hey, thanks for having me.
