John Maxwell Hosts Simon Sinek

you on the other side of a storm is the strength that comes from navigating through it raise your sail and begin just because you're struggling doesn't mean that you're failing I think sometimes people equates struggling with failure and it's it's not it is even close in fact if you're struggling and it tells me that you're still in the game we don't see these incredible opportunities first because every opportunity that you and I have is surrounded by a problem I've never gone to an opportunity that I didn't have to go to the door of problems first so the next time you have an obstacle of a difficulty and adversity in your life don't allow the crisis to numb you be alive learn feel fail learn that's what it's all about if you want to make this difficult time a good time I just want you to know that there's a hero within you I knew there is and during this tough time but the hero out let people see the best of you your highest aspirations you be the one who's the lifter and encourage [Music] hey welcome everyone my name is Mark Cole I have been with John Maxwell now 20 years and I've watched him in the last 20 years do what he's done in 53 years of this leadership message he's been proclaiming he pivots he pivots and he pivots again any leaders out there leading understand what I mean when I say John Maxwell and leaders pivot you're looking at a screen today and not only am I joined by John Maxwell who has been doing this program for some time I'm joined by a leader that he respects a guy that really needs no introduction but simon Sinek is a man with a mission a man with a message at the end that wants to add value to you today so I'm gonna get out of the way but let me explain what's gonna happen you are a part of the leadership when it matters the most program John pivoted nine weeks ago when we couldn't do a live event and has spoken to over 2.2 million people on this program in the last eight weeks well we've pivoted again because John's felt like his message has been said and now it's time to introduce you to some friends of him and their message in these difficult times let me explain difficult times we've had the Cova 19 health crisis we're having the kovat 19 financial crisis and now we're having the george george floyd crisis we are becoming acclimated to crisis and so today's the program is about you I've got some pre submitted questions that we're going to throw over to John and Simon and then in this program I really want to challenge you go to the chat box and post your question let us select your question to ask of John and Simon John Simon thank you John I'm gonna get out of the way and let you welcome your friend and then I do have some questions for you guys well thank you so much mark Simon good everybody so good to see love every time I'm with you whether we're on stage or in the green room or out having dinner you are a leaders leader you are a thinker you're a practitioner you add value to me you add value to everybody you walk into our lives and you make us better that's what leaders do so Simon having you on with us today beautiful and you are the guest so what I mean by that is I've shared with mark I've said mark we feature you I mean I'll come around and and pick up a few pieces once in a while too we got to but but you're the man you're the man and I want to make sure that your message and your thoughts are given to the people so thanks for coming in and being with us your love you man thanks Joe have fun the feeling's mutual thank you so much yeah and and before the program is over we're gonna give you some additional ways to get more impact and value from Simon and his team so stay tuned for that guys I'm gonna ask both of you this question Simon first to you but you guys have spent your life whatever level and length that is you spend your life really for your platform and your message Simon for you that message is you've got to start with why and you've got to be in the infinite game as well you are seeing yourself and others deal with crisis after crisis after crisis in this current time what about your message is digging deeper into yourself and what are you learning that further accents the way that we can apply your message in difficult times so crisis is the great revealer when a crisis hits everything that may have been hidden or hard to see becomes easy to see everything from how we operate how we deal with stress the quality of our relationships the the quality of our corporate culture the quality I mean everything everything is revealed instantaneously you know we can't judge the quality of a crew by how I should performs in calm waters we judge the quality of a crew by how it performs in rough waters and the thing that I found comforting quite frankly is that because my work is about building strong foundations you know the concept of why is a foundation of a house that if a hurricane comes through and does damage the house the foundation is fixed you know when we dig up ancient ruins we find the foundations that's what we find and so what I've learned is that in a time where you where we need to respond to crisis you go back to basics you go back to the foundation that I can change what I do I can change how I bring my message to the world I can change the product that I'm selling all of that is flexible but the thing that has remained completely fixed that I've been able to pivot around is my why is my cause and so when we when when kovat happens for example you know we make most of our income from from live events and that amit disappeared and so we didn't go back to the team and said how are we gonna do more live events but online you know we didn't just take the old business model and try and shove it online we said okay imagine that the old business never existed we have this cause to inspire people to do the things that inspire them we have this we have this vision of the world that we imagine to build a world in which the vast majority of people wake up every single morning inspired feel safe wherever they are and end the day fulfilled by the work that they do now we have all these resources we have all of this content what are we gonna do with it and we literally built an entirely new business but the foundation the most important thing down to your question is the foundation never never changed so what I found incredibly comforting is I've gone back to my own work and use that as the basis for to provide some kind of stability in all the work and all the change that's happening around us so John I know you're you may want to even bounce off of that but I want to ask you the same question you you've made your life about the statement everything rises and falls on leadership and yet we're seeing in media today we're seeing in kovat 19 we're seeing in the globe the national response to George Floyd we're seeing leadership in some form or fashion what are you finding out about leadership and its importance in today's realities well I want to play off what Tyra just said about the crisis being the great Ruby Keeler I agree completely of that and one of the things that crisis reveals is the players from the pretenders when it comes when it comes to leadership again a pretender can hide in normal times they can hide behind their titles their positions the political aspect of what they're doing is a leader so they could during easy times you can hide but when it comes to crisis it squeezes out of every one of us who we really are and when I here's what I mean by the different player pretender as far as leaders concerned for example a players immediately go to where the needs of the people are pretenders they have a tendency to always make sure that they look right they look good it's today's pretenders are all about how my position and players are all about where are the people because wherever the people are that's the people that we have to leave they have but you have to you have to find them before you can lead them and so you I think you began to find out the pretenders have an agenda during the crisis and the agenda is how can again how can I look good on this were the players maybe they just say where are the people and how can I serve you and how can I add value to you and it's all hands on deck and yes we've had to let go of everything we've basically done but it's okay the and the players the players want the ball during the crisis and the pretenders thing they don't want the ball they didn't want the ball they want to be on the ball team they want to if you think of basketball they want to be on the side they want to throw the ball into someone else so that they're seen but the players want the ball I remember John Wooden many years ago we had a discussion he said I don't even like to pick my captain on my basketball team until were three or four games in because he said I wanna watch the players play during the during the tightness of the he said I want to watch which one of my players really wants the ball when there's a minute left and the scores tied who who wants the ball because that should be the captain so what happens is in this revealer that you know Simon said which is so true what happens is the players really really shine they come forth and the Pretender that they start Heidi in fact truthfully all of you are watching us right now this is a great time for you to find out who on your team as a player versus who's a pretender so anyway where everything rises and falls on leadership the thing that's discouraging me to the most this time is so many people that have both leadership positions their agenda is honest to god it's just so wrong and Brett it breaks my heart it breaks my heart because it's bad enough to manipulate people during good times but it's compounding worse manipulating people during difficult times and so everything rises and falls on leadership but sadly a lot of positional leaders we have they're not really leading leading well at all right now that that's really it's revealing Simon it's what you just said it's really revealing right now you know Jon you you're what I see I've seen in the marketplace you you're a hundred percent right even at a company standpoint which is the companies that are more successfully pivoting their businesses versus the ones that are really struggling and the ones that are struggling to pivot have put themselves at the center of the equation how can we survive how can we get more money how can we it's about us right the ones that are more successfully pivoting are the ones that have put the customer at the center of the equation we've got stuff how are we gonna help them we've got things that they need how we gonna get it to them and and and though of course they need to make money they've done it with an absolute focus on the outside versus an absolute focus on themselves so this this you what you're saying is is playing out in the marketplace right now yeah it's just one one of the quick thought that mark you will go right back to you buddy and that is you also talked about Simon about it's not a revealer but you talked about the foundation and and and and to me values are the foundation and let me tell you some my values don't change my value my values don't affect good times bad times that they're the same values people for adding value to people and so what I find in so many of the pretenders is they can they they don't go for where their values are they they go for what again is what's convening for me what's going to make me look good again you know as you said it so well leaders go last leaders go last they serve and so anyway you started a soft good Simon the revealer foundational stuff buddy hey that's why you're on here you're the pro hey let's go let's go to Ty he is from Virginia Beach and Titus is back on this leadership and Simon will go to you first and then John you just jump right in ty says many of the tensions we're experiencing are because leaders have failed to listen how can we become better listeners and secondly how do we change from just hearing someone's perspective to actually listening to that perspective well asked and answered you know the we can't we can make demands of our leaders but the end of the day we can only be responsible for ourselves like we can't change our leaders when we can we can vote them in and out or we can or we can you know choose to get a different job somewhere but we can't physically actually change the way that they're gonna do business or how they see the world you know no number of anonymously sent books is gonna solve that problem but we can change ourselves and you know when I hear people talking about the system is broken there's no mythical system it's us it's a it's a our society is a collection of individuals and and whatever the the balance of behavior is from those individuals is that is the system you get and so it starts at home it starts with us and so we want to change the system this this this elephant the only way to eat an elephant is one mouthful at a time and so I think we need to set ourselves on a course to become better listeners ourselves and there's a difference between listening and hearing you know hearing is understanding the words that are said to you listening is trying to get to the meaning of the words that are said to you with an appreciation that sometimes people say the wrong thing they say what they're trying to say badly sometimes emotions are involved sometimes they get flustered and it's not for us to take their words personally or even to even pick a part but to rather try and show up with curiosity to really understand the meaning what I'm describing is empathy we show up with empathy that's that's all this is and we and to look past the the the the superficial I've heard it now you know which is you know talking about some of the anger like if they weren't angry then we'd probably get more they this would be more productive well do you understand while they're angry do you let's go to the root that's what listening is it was Martin Luther King who said riots are the language of the unheard remember we've all know what it feels like to feel heard to feel heard and the end to what listening is it's the practice it's the practice that another person will feel heard you know just to go off on a quick aside you know there's this there's this trend in America today everybody's talking about being present in everybody's mindful everybody's doing yoga everybody's trying to be present you know I I was attended a meeting where there was a big time a yoga instructor who was sitting next to me and the entire meeting she was on her phone and underneath the table and it wasn't like she had a grandparent in the hospital or something I could see she was on social media you know I was sitting right next to her and at one point we started talking about being present and her head popped up and said that's why I love yoga it helps me be present I mean I don't think she understands you are not present you don't get to decide when you are present you are present when somebody else says you are Wow and this is why we practice things like meditation I mean if anybody has ever done a meditation practice we learn to sit in silence to focus on one thing a sound or a mantra we learn to clear our minds and if we have a thought we label the thought we put it out of our minds we find this zen-like state but that's not for you you practice yoga you practice meditation you practice mindfulness as a service to another human being so that when you are sitting across a table that when they are speaking you have learned to focus on only what they're saying and not if your your phone is buzzing or some noise behind you and and if you have a thought you're not just waiting for your turn to speak but rather you label it a thought you put out of your mind and you remain focused on what they're saying and you try to learn and understand the motivation the emotion underneath and at the end you will know you have been present when that person says thank you I feel heard thank you for listening to me I appreciate you being here for me are the words they will use when you have been present and so I think the question about listening is we have to go on the journey it's a skill like any other it is a learn about practice upon skill and if you don't practice you lose that skill one book I would recommend it's called how to talk to kids so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk it's a bright yellow book yes it's a parenting book it's one of the best books to teach us to listen hat to adults as well but it's a skill and if you want to learn it I encourage you to literally go out and learn it and practice and practice and practice yes John I want go ahead John I want you to jump in I mean what's the name of that book again how to talk to kids so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk it's a great title it's more of a paragraph but still good you know siren when you talk about listening I remind ya in my young leadership years I was not a good listener at all yeah I was so visionary and I knew so desperately where I wanted to go that it was basically can I get you on my leadership training this is the way we're going and I was directional I was I was motivational I said let's go and and I had a staff member really come into my life one time and just look at me and say you don't listen to us and of course I protested and tell her what home the more to my wife and I said Margaret you know you know Susan says I don't listen to the staff and she said what she's right and then I got oh I'm now I'm in real deep weeds and and I had to really turn this around and and here's what I discovered about me okay the reason that I didn't listen well is because I valued what I wanted more than I wanted what they wanted mmm and so I I had to I had to turn that around you know the old Zig Ziglar thing if you help people get what they want they'll help you get what everything you need well what I discovered is again I've got to go find them before I could lead them and so I became I change directional leader to a to a conversational leader that basically asks a lot of questions and and so my favorite definition in listening because it works for me is listening they're wanting to hear I don't want to hear and I love I loved it when you said that the person that validates if you're present is it yourself it's like why I was like present yeah present you know they're the ones and there's not a higher compliment to give to people that tend to be present and ask questions and value their input and ask for it that's a high compliment what's your opinion what do you think and what I found is that the great leaders that day they listen they learn and then they lead and they ask a question and genuinely care about the answer even if the question is how are you yeah it's how are you and genuinely care about the answer you've got a guy a friend of John's Andy Stanley did a talk recently about leading in crisis and he said every one of you leaders that are leading in times like this you need to start your meeting with going around asking the question how are you really and did that right after I heard the talk we did that an hour later these leaders that all they want to usually talk about it autumn wise that was telling about their moms that going through this that issue and it really bound us together even though it was on a zoom call a visual like this it really was a connecting point hey Simon I want to go to you first for the next question is from Dominic from st. Louis and by the way if you're watching go to the chat box list a question we want to get your question in front of Simon and John Maxwell this question from Dominic st. Louis says what is the best way for a leader to break out of a short-term mindset and embrace a mindset better suited for the infinite thing well the mindset is the infinite mindset so the way to break out of it is to actually sit down and say what game am I in um the being in the infinite game is not the absence of finite games it's the context within which the finite games exist and we use the wrong metaphors and analogies to describe our lives our businesses and so most of the metaphors that we use reinforce the finite mindset we use sports analogies all the time we use war analogies all the time this is a campaign we're launching this you know it's its fourth and goal and we have to you know this is how we talked to our teams about making you know the end-of-the-year numbers or something and the reality is the the the analogies are all wrong because these are games that have no finish lines these are infinite games and so we have to change change our mentality of how it's playing and I like to think of it more like lifestyle so for example like being healthy you can absolutely have finite goals I want to lose X amount of weight by X date it's a finite number I mean it's a it's an arbitrary number at an arbitrary date just like we said arbitrary financial goals for arbitrary dates the same thing right sales goals all of it's all arbitrary right and we like numbers metrics are really important it helps people feel like they're making progress you could never run a marathon without mile markers because it's unnerving and we have to remember metrics are there to help us understand speed and distance but they don't indicate the end of the game it's speed and distance and so it's wonderful and we we weigh ourselves every day and we're exercising we're eating right and we can see the weight come off and if we hit our goal we feel excited and here's the worst part you have to keep exercising and eating healthy for the rest of your life because the game does not end congratulations you hit your goal now you have to keep going and going and going it's a different mind frame different mindset also what happens if you miss your goal don't happens if you miss your goal nothing nothing happens if you miss your goal it was arbitrary but if you've been eating healthy and exercising the odds are you'll hit that goal in a month or so you're fine in fact you're probably way healthier now than when you started because the metrics were there the finite guy the finite game is there to help you make progress in the infinite game that's the role of the finite game that's the role of many of those finite games the infinite game is the context within which those finite games exist but if we don't have vision if we don't have a cause and we don't have a place that we're trying to go to then the only thing we have are the finite things the only thing we have are those finite metrics and that's why we become so obsessed with them because that's all we've got that's all we've got and so you want to have that distant view of a more idealized state of the world which is different than a bee hag different than a big hairy hairy audacious goal this is not achievable in 25 years this is not achievable in your lifetime all men are created equal two hundred and forty years still not there right but all of the milestones that we pass we're trying to get there and all of them are imperfect but you can see a nation struggling to get somewhere it's the same at a micro level to have a vision of service to have a vision of a world the way John talks about his business the way John talks about his work and all of the things he's doing are the micro games the finite games that help him measure progress towards this grander this grander thing and by the way that is what gives our lives and our work meaning that the finite metrics actually are adding up towards something bigger oh that's good stuff can I can I pitch for kind of everybody if you're on you here's you've got to get Simon's book the infinite game I'm telling you you gotta get and the reason you have to get it i I've read every one of your books Simon okay thank you John I truly think this is to me now every book speaks to you based on where you are so so when somebody says it's a great book it became great because that what was said in that book is coming right up to where I am personally the infinite game was incredible because when I started off I was goal oriented and so I laid out my goal spec my first personal growth kit was goals and how to set goals and so I did and it was kind of like how long will it take how long will it take how long will it take in one day in my personal growth because the change is happening in me I went from how long will it take to how far can I go and and that was my first introduction to the infinite game all of a sudden I realized oh my and then I began to understand there really is no finish line then that the the the the metrics are finishing or not finishing lines they're they're indicators are how far you've gone but you know if you have a finish line you play a finite game and that's all you have you don't have the bigger infinite game the problem is when you cross the finish line is you know Simon you're finished I mean it's over and how many times do we see people yeah they've already died they just haven't made it official you know what I'm talking about you see this in companies right we want to be the biggest we want to be number one so what happens if you achieve that do you shut the doors you ever think you've accomplished your goal shut the doors the game is over hey you want to get that book make sure they get the bookmarks they want to get it absolutely so John I want to UM I want to go to you with this next question but Simon I would love to hear you an asked speaking to it as well as Tim from Creedmoor North Carolina he said with so much pain and distrust and tension in our society right now how do we navigate long-lasting transformational change John well a couple of things it's a great it's a great question let's talk about trust let's just talk about trust in fact I think there are three questions that all followers ask of the leader and the three questions are do you like me can you help me and you can kind of trust you and I think those are three very valid I mean who wants to follow a leader doesn't like him because the first thing they'll do is they'll manipulate you and move you for their advantage who wants to follow a leader that's incompetent tulo you're not going to get where you want to go with that but this issue of trust and so what I tell what I say to myself all the time is that's not the question followers should be asking me that's the question I should be asking myself it goes back to what Simon was saying again when the quote system is broken with the system hey wait a minute quit looking for someone else to bail us out beat us up let's look at ourselves and say what am i doing how do I get involved how do i improve myself how do I get better so every day every day I'm asking myself that question yeah do I really love the people that I leave because honestly if I don't love to get out of the leadership game I mean there's is there anything worse than a leader that doesn't love his or her people I mean and careful with him so if I'm if I'm incompetent how to get all the leadership gamer that's for sure learn how to lead but but this whole issue of trust that might a trustworthy person and my person and there's an it there's a huge responsibility on trustworthiness you know Pat Lencioni has this new book out it's called motives and he basically asked widened leaders lead and he said there's two reasons they either lead for reward in other words what's in it for me or they need for responsibility which which responsibility is heavy when you sign up for leadership it's not an easy course and and and and and and the responsibility means I'm my brother's keeper and and those people are first and and so I think when you talk about something that's long lasting not a quick fix those are three questions we just need to ask ourselves and forget about the followers asking in fact let me act to say one thing the moment the follower has to ask the question you're not asking yourself you're already behind and so you know get out in front and ask the questions first and set the bar of excellence for yourself before somebody else has to set it for you go ahead sign it you know I like to think of things when people ask societal questions how does how do we restore trust how do we build trust I always like to think of these things in much smaller more understandable context I think of interpersonal relationships right correct how do you build how do we build trust with one person we all know how to do that sometimes it's quicker and sometimes it's slower but it's not immediate it takes time and it takes reinforcement and what happens if you violate trust like what happens if you do something that violates the trust of a friend of somebody who who you care about and who cares about you and they say to you I how can I trust you and simply doing what you used to do or simply promising that you can still trust me i made a mister even if you come clean say i made a mistake there still needs to be now you go to double down on working even harder and and and you got to prove it and you've got a and and and you know one of the things I can't stand is these leaders who say prove to me why I should trust you leaders have to take the risk of trust the day they show up if you declare yourself a leader you take the risk of trust it's the opposite it's the leaders have to prove why they're trustworthy to their people yes we get the equation backwards all the time leaders take the risk of risk to trust but the rest of us you got to earn our trust that's why is because Simon that's where I love the quote it's wonderful when the people trust the leader but it's even more wonderful when the leader trusts people and and and Trust is a risk it's like love is a risk like you didn't get to choose your children you love them right I get well I didn't get to choose my team tough you got to trust them like you got to love them too yeah and if they if they fail you don't immediately assume that there's something wrong with them you go in and and use and again we'll go back to what we said before you lead with empathy are you okay what's going on we don't know what their history is we don't know who their former boss was we don't know maybe they've come from a horrible corporate culture and they've just joined your company and they don't trust anybody and so they're gonna operate to protect themselves we don't know and that goes back to those listening skills and and I think just think of it as interpersonal and how we as individuals would have to act to build trust with another human being and now amplify that and you'll see how institutions have to act in a way to rebuild trust with populations as well I love that way of communicating and teaching Simon it just simplifies everything when you forget about the corporations and the teams and you just break it down to a one on one relationship and say house this house is going to work and and because how it works in one-on-one is how it works with everyone turns turns out organizations and societies are just collections of individuals that's correct and individuals you know if you can understand the individual you can understand the society because societies act the same way as individuals that's exactly right true is true for companies it's true for countries it's true for where we are now hey let's go to our live audience gang we've been doing some pre submitted question we'll go to our live audience and Sandra Kay Reynolds asked the question how do you address and work with people who refuse to make necessary pivots during this time Simon again when we say refuse right we don't know we don't know where they're coming from especially in a time like this in a time of crisis trauma affects people in different ways some people go into go mode mission mode they're they're you know they're all they're actually kind of enjoying it because it's that's it's that's it's just go go go and some people shut down and there's no right or wrong and the thing that we have to remember is there's no such thing as compartmentalizing there's no such things compartmentalizing your feelings everyone will have to deal with the trauma at some point and I've been issuing this warning I've been calling friends in the military when kovetz started I called a bunch of friends I said hey how do i compartmentalize my my emotions so I can stay focused and go mode because you guys compartmentalize your emotions all the time when you're in when you're in mission mode right and my friend said to me he gave me a warning he said do not think you can do that he says you can do it for a short period of time like when we're in a combat situation sure yes it's compartmentalized but the pain comes later the pain comes when everything stops he says we have huge problems with folks coming back from combat sometimes two three months after they've been home all of a sudden the trauma flies in this is where we see pts and you see increases in domestic violence in depression and alcohol abuse worst case self-harm anger somebody people in hair-trigger and so no one is gonna get off this scot-free we're all gonna have to deal with the trauma at some point so if you've been in Mission mode and you're good you're banan go mode it's coming it's coming when it stops think about the doctors and nurses on the frontline right we've been calling them heroes and clapping them to work every day that ends at some point and they just go back to being doctors and nurses and the trauma is gonna flood in but the same goes for us and so if somebody refuses to pivot be it be try go and sit down with them and under where maybe they're dealing with the trauma right now maybe they don't know how to act maybe they're operating out of extreme fear because they don't know what the future is this is one of the one of the advantages of learning to embrace an infinite mindset an infinite mindset sees change or uncertainty as opportunity embracing opportunity love surprises finite mindset hate surprises that's why there's planning planning planning planning planning planning because I want to make sure that I'm prepared for every eventuality so that there's no surprises unfortunately there's gonna be surprises the the finite mindset sees all the creativity that happened in the past this is what James Cars explains whereas the infinite mind set sees all the creativity happens at the moment of change okay what are we gonna do this is where the fun begins as opposed to looking past and say what can we what what can we rely on we say how can we reinvent but that's just one of the the little advantage but if somebody refuses I would say start with empathy and if they really still can't then just leave them be let they'll come in their own time maybe they won't come at all but but we don't want to criticize and we don't want to lean heavy into them because we do not know we do not know and next time that could be us no and you know what's silent at which is so right on the other thing is very true as you know assumption is the mother of all leadership mess ups and the very fact that they refuse to pivot my first question was would be how do you know that that what you see is visually that they're maybe not moving as quickly and turning as refresh but but you've got to go sit down with them and ask the questions you you have to find out where they are again and find out the setting because what I've discovered so many times is what I assume by someone's behavior is based on their actions but I've never spent time to find out what their intentions are and what their motives are and a lot of times the very fact of connecting finding empathizing many times this opens up if they're refusing with an outward action many times once you have a heart connection with them and and you both under have an understanding all of a sudden you just that clogged and they can and they can move on again it's the leaders responsibility to go where the people are not the people to responsibility to go where the leader are and I think that's one of the big misses we have in leadership side you you got it so right and by the way I went through this and I got it wrong on my own team and my own pivot and at the beginning of kovat which is we're making this pivot I'm in mission mode I'm in go mode I don't like all right we're gonna do this and one of the senior members of my team just kept referring to the past and couldn't get out of her own way and it was an every phone call felt like I was taking two steps back and and I and and and I got so frustrated and I'd call her up after the call be like come on you got to pick it up like we're trying to do this like I need you you know and it just kept not working and I kept getting frustrated and she got frustrated with me and she got frustrated and then I took a deep breath and said I think she's just scared or uncertain I don't know what it is so I called her up and said hey I'm sorry and B I thanked her for being in the struggle because I know she was trying I know that she was trying and I thanked her for being in the struggle and I told her that I'll be there with her through the struggle immediately everything changed yeah because it no longer became adversarial and I I had more empathy for the fact that she wasn't in an excitement go mode with me and I couldn't use how I felt to judge her performance it was grossly unfair but the minute I thanked her for her for she didn't quit she didn't shut down she didn't run away she jumped in with me she was just it was just it was struggle and when I just thanked her for being in the thick of it it was amazing what changed it was amazing what changed great example silence yeah you know in John Aman go to Garrett our next question but it's funny that you say that because this past weekend I spoke to two of our african-american executives and just said talk to me just let me hear you and let me let help me give give me some verbiage give me some context John you did that on Monday you you pivoted your whole program and said I've got to speak to where we are now and I think great leaders that do that get that connection Simon that you're just talking about and that connection is what's going to carry us through because we do need all of us in what we bring to the table to be able to get through some of these times in fact that is Garrett Vitas question he's from Los Angeles catch where he's from and what he's seeing every night in Los Angeles here's his question what are what actions what are some action steps we should take now due to the complications of what's currently happening obviously he's talking about in our cities in our streets Simon so I can only respond with what I'm doing I don't think there's an answer I'm trying to have a lot of uncomfortable conversations I'm calling friends I'm calling my black friends I'm calling my white friends I'm having uncomfortable conversations and I'm asking them for advice and I'm asking them how they feel and I'm and I'm learning and if if if somebody feels guilt then it probably means because you can relate to what's going on if somebody if somebody feels you know if there's somebody somebody who's white who's feeling guilty about something that's probably because you recognize that there's white privilege and you know it and that's okay the important thing is to sit with these emotions and to express these emotions and I'm having uncomfortable conversations and I'm having comforting conversations but I think that's what we have to do I think this is a this is like we have to go through this collective therapy and we have to do with the people we know and the people we love I think we have to start really close to home I had a conversation the other day with some business leaders and they're asking me questions about what public statements they should make and they made these public statements they put out these statements and I'm like well have you have you actually gone and sat down and talked to your team and let everybody just say how they feel they said no I said well why don't you start internally and not worry about what the legally approved public statement is you know like start talking inside that's way more important right now check in with people I said have you called all of your black employees and just said hey how are you have you had have you had have you put 10 15 people around a table around a zoom room have you had a team call and just said hey this is a safe space let's just go anybody want to say how they feel and by the way whether you like it or not the leaders have to lead by example we we did a team call where we just went around the room and said anybody who have anything in their mind but I started and it has to be genuine and heartfelt kind just be like this is a safe space tell us what you think leader leaders got to put it all out there and all the discomfort warts and all so that people know that they can do that without judgment but I think this is what we've done I think you know we live in a society that has over indexed on on machismo weave in weave live in a society there's over indexed on individuality rugged individualism you know John you and I've joked about this before we have an entire section in the book shop called self-help we have no section in the book shop called help others we've over indexed on individual performance and individual wealth and yet the collected and service we've just kind of forgotten over the past 30 40 years I'm just just to put it in into perspective during World War two there were more cases of young men committing suicide who didn't get drafted think about that for a second the shame of not being called to service was more traumatic than being called to service and you know service used to be normal like chivalry used to be the normal way of doing business that your word was your bond and that you could go to war if you violated values service used to be a normal thing now we talk about it like you're lucky to get it in in companies you know handshake deals used to be like a real thing and I think we've as a society we've forgotten what it means to do things for others and by the way service is a very specific definition it means sacrificing your interests for the good of another human beings life sacrificing your interest in their hat you cannot have service without sacrifice and it doesn't have to be your life it could be time it can be energy it could be money it could be your attention you know think about how your kids feel when you're actually turned to them and talk to them and look at them versus talking to them while you're on your phone that's an act of service putting this away sacrificing that I'll have to just have more emails and work later because I'm gonna put this away that's the sacrifice I'm gonna make for my child or for my spouse and I think we've we've forgotten about service you can't services not giving a donation that's not service the only time money becomes of service is if you give more money than you have to give then it's a service but if you give you know 100 bucks and you make $200,000 a year it's nice it's nice gesture keep doing it it's not service service has to come with sacrifice and I think that's that's what we're learning right now you know Simon you just defined service wonderfully for all of us but you've also you defined services for us that you showed us humility and and really silent we're over our heads and and a crisis ought to bring humility to all of us we don't have answers and the only way that we're going to get the answers is by humbling ourselves and going to other people and having uncomfortable conversations I don't mind uncomfortable conversations I just like the the the what happened I don't like what happens when you have an uncomfortable conversation and you still feel uncomfortable laughter because you haven't done what you need to do to begin to change and begin to understand things from their perspective or their point of view but I think you know probably my promised time to be American was right after 9/11 for about three months there was such a sense of humility I haven't I mean politicians just started reaching across the aisle and started truly kind of made maybe putting the people first that's what of what a novel thought for a politician but I mean it was it did people were they were very humbled because we didn't have answers we don't have answers today either and and and there's no room for arrogance in leadership and and there's no room for personal rights and leadership is in it and I think that when you are calling your friends and have an uncomfortable conversations what you're basically saying is I have to be uncomfortable and humble myself so that I can come first of all to grips with me it's again it's not how do I fix society it's how do I fix me what were the good news is once I kind of get fairly fixed I can go help some other people does the only particular can give what you have and so I think you describe service great for assignment I think you modeled with your phone conversations example humility which all of us need to exhibit at this time hey I wanna thank you thank thank you John I think you give me too much credit but the I can tell you because I've done it uncomfortably a number of times and I've got it wrong a bunch of times that there's an easy there's an easier way there's a simple way it's not easy it's simple there's a simple way to start these conversations which is to pick up the phone and the first words out of your mouth are I need help yeah or I'm stuck yeah or I don't know what to do which is why I'm calling you which they be coming out immediately to you Network we're or Mike my thoughts are conflicting and I need to talk them out please like to it that's how they come that's how my conversations all started right on right I'd like to close with two quick questions and then some closing comments perhaps from the both of you al from New York going to the other side of the United States al from New York says can there be or will there be another Lincoln Kennedy or Darden dr. Martin Luther King who will emerge and help us out of these times I I keep holding out hope you know what we have to remember that what these great leaders do you know there was plenty of civil rights abuses prior to dr. Martin Luther King for four decades decades and decades what dr. King was did was he took all of that frustration he took what people were railing against and he made a stand for something and he talked any-any painted a vision of the future a positive vision of the future instead of talking about the he didn't the the dream was not a discussion of the broken past the dream was a discussion of the was of the the affirmative future I have a dream that one day little black children play on the playground with little white children and it's the world we want to build and we and we make this mistake all the time you see it a lot in in in in charitable works you know they show you the picture of the of the child with the distended belly you know to get you to give to to hunger you know they show you the person on the hospital bed or the abused animal to get you to give but they don't show you the healthy animal or the person who survived cancer or the person who who used to be hungry to show us where what we what your money goes towards and and I think we we need leaders who tell us where we're going not just we want to stand for something nobody wants to break things we want to build things you know III joke even like with unemployment numbers it's like well unemployment is down to you know eight percent well who wants to move something down I want to get unemployment close to 100 percent I want to say unemployment is up to 96 percent let's get it higher you know like I want to build I don't to break I don't a destroyer bring down and that's what these the the leaders that that he mentions that you know there's they all presented their the what we can join where we're going yeah there there will be another mark Luther King I promise you there will be because the problem with the crisis that we're in is we always think it's the greatest crisis that's ever happened and that's not true and fact I was talking the other day Simon about the fact that we even look at these times say this may be the most troubling time in America like until you go back to the 1960s and and and and Malcolm X and and JFK were assassinated two years apart Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King was assassinated two months apart and you know riots in the streets of cities were burning you know a Vietnam War morale was an all-time low and I think the tendency is for us to look at our crisis and say well this has got to be the worst and the darkest days we've ever had in command and I don't believe that but I do believe I believe that there's it's an impossibility to have a crisis without the emergence of great leadership I it because that's that's where they are revealed and that's where and that's where they began to get their stride their leadership stride I think many of those I think I think Abraham Lincoln is just an average person and a lawyer in Springfield Illinois until a crisis called the greatness out of him and all of a sudden people were surprised and I think that's the other thing I think we get surprised by by sometimes the person that does step up and I'm I'm very much positive that the great the bad times rise up with great leaders I yeah hey well I would love so maybe to close out your your thoughts and then again I do want to give some people ways to connect it with you Simon and with a couple things John for you but um the Tony from Seattle asked a question that maybe this can kind of be the way you guys give us some closing thoughts and I rose I resonate with this I'm trying to leave this we've got a very diverse group thousands of coaches in nations around the world a high percentage of women a high percentage of African American and everything else as well as far as diversity so 2020 has been a tough year I'm leading through some of the toughest times at least I've ever seen what do you guys think is the way forward for leaders who are facing some of the toughest challenges they've ever faced I face them I wish I had a good answer you know I get a kick out of the fact that that people these people keep talking about you know in these uncertain times all times are uncertain there's never been a time that was an uncertain ever during these and so it's just because something happened that was so shocking that the uncertain the uncertainty of every single day was revealed to you but by the way it's always been that way and so and so I think the way to a and John you sort of touched upon this which is you know this is the most difficult time it's like kovat is the is the worst things ever happened well you know if we lived longer than 70 or 80 years like if you lived a thousand years if that was an average human life this would be like the sixth or seventh pandemic absolutely you know and it's like what what do you do during hurricane season hurricanes are awful they caused economic damage they caused loss of life they're horribly upsetting they're unpredictable what are you doing during the hurricane season well we kind of we know what to expect we know it's bad we try and mitigate the damage and we we batten down the hatch the hatches and we we know what to do you deal with it you confront it and I think whatever the crisis is you you have to have a sense that it's it this could have happened all the time and and the problem is is we pretend like we're actuaries you know the housing crisis of 2008 the actuaries had predicted there's only like a 1% or 2% chance that the whole housing market would collapse at the same time they predicted that there was a percentage those small so you know what everybody did nothing they didn't bother preparing because there's only 2% chance so why bother having a plan then it happened and panic ensued by the way does anybody think their house is gonna burn down nope then how can we all have insurance just cuz it might and that's that's what it is to have an infinite mindset it's it's kind of like living your life with insurance so the reason you act in service the reason you build good teams now I remember I speaking speaking to a company once and one of the leaders talked about leadership and one of the one of the guys raised his hand and he said this is all very interesting we have to understand I don't have time for this he said you don't have to send this is war well first I had to correct him that this was not war and that no one was gonna die and the most the worst thing that will happen is he will lose a big company a little bit of money like this is not work so once we got that out of the way I said I appreciate that you don't have time for this leadership during these very difficult challenging times my question to you is what do you what were you doing during the good times because that's when you should be building trust you don't build trust in the middle of the crisis you should be building trust all the time so that when the crisis happens the team already loves and trusts and will go to go to bat together the military you know build trust in wartime it's all of the training the peacetime that you're building the camaraderie you're building the trust so that when you go to war and command and control is necessary that people are following orders knowing that their commanders are not putting them in harm's way needlessly because the trust was built not is building and so I think the best thing we can do one when we get through this crisis is to be fantastic leaders to learn to listen to learn empathy to become students of leadership so we build amazing organizations so that when the next crisis happens we'll hit it head-on together we will meet it head-on together because that's the only way to meet crisis is as a group Simon that's such good stuff you've given us I just want to top it off very quickly with just two quick thoughts values and perspective values that's what anchors us it's the foundation you talked up in your very first question assignment it's what we stand on and perspective is in a crisis that people began to just begin to have see that the negative but the leader always sees more than others see and they see people and they have a perspective and and I think all the leaders that were mentioned in that question if you look back and they were people of values and they they knew who they were and they were not shaken by the times because it and so they had a foundation but they had that perspective that was able to give people hope and it was able for them to they were able to find answers because they were able to it's the it's the peak-to-peak principle make your makes your decisions on top of the mountain out of the valley you could see so much more and so those are two I think great words to kind of help us understand what the kind of leader that's needed values and perspectives so anyway go ahead my well gang I know you've enjoyed this last hour as much as I have I hope not only will you listen in again I hope you will share it I hope you'll get John and Simon's message for the world out there Simon I want to give them two ways that they can stay connected with you and the first one I'm personally excited about because in Birmingham Alabama me and you and John we're doing a Maxwell Leadership podcast and John and I looked at you and said Simon what are you doing about the podcast you said I'm not doing anything and we kind of figured if Lee slapped you on the butt and said Simon get in the game dude everybody needs to hear up to you and you've done it you've done it and so Simon has a podcast now called a bit of optimism and if you have not subscribed you are behind the game you need to subscribe to this and so you can go to simon Sinek dot-com forward slash podcasts and you need to register for that Simon thank you seriously authentically thank you for getting in the game John and I welcome you in and we're glad that you're here there's a little Thank You thanks for kicking me in the butt thanks for kicking me in the butt to do it we don't need a second Lisa yeah Simon you've got some online learnings that I want people to get access to well you tell us a little about that and how to get there yeah thanks so much the well it's it's the pivot that I talked about at the beginning which is we can no longer do live anything and so we still had all this these wonderful people and I reached out to people who I have been the people who I literally reached out and said hey how are you dealing with this by the way you're teaching me good stuff can you teach it to to other people too and so we we put together these classes and it was really important even though lots of people are doing the whole online learning thing it was really important to us that we maintained the human connection all of our classes are live it's a real classroom with real human interaction that was really important to us and we we we have a we're trying we've been trying really hard to present class work that builds on everything John and I have been talking about today and meets people where they are right now really proud of it so and there's a lot of really good stuff there so thanks thanks for thanks for help me an opportunity to share it do they go to simon Sinek comm yeah yeah just go to simon Sinek comm and there's all kinds of buttons that say live classes beautiful and and and we that we have one class that I'm really proud of called jumpstart your why because we know in this time a lot of people really want to connect with their why especially if they've been furloughed or lost their job and so we put we have the jump start your white class as pay what you can we don't know what people's resources are available right now and so we're letting people pay what they can and I'm really proud of that that's for your team I love that idea hey um so go to Simon Senate comm you'll be able to get some of this online learning he's got it they're really sensitive to what's happening in today's world also subscribe to the podcast prove John and I write that Simon should be in the podcast and then John had challenged us with his leadership content because there's such a need from a leadership mindset to create a micro learning you can get a small bite-sized learning of John's content leader shift at John Maxwell comm leadership it'll help you finally John I'm excited to tell you that the leader series that we're doing right now it continues next week on this series June but 15th Casey Crawford the CEO founder of movement mortgage is going to be with us now Simon I'll tell you all flying about Casey world yet brilliant leader growing now what he's doing in his community is unbelievable he's in an infinite game and he and you need to change the world together but gang June the 15th Simon Sydney thank you John any last words and any appreciation to Simon yeah a couple things thanks Simon and you also need to get his book the infinite game I Mark didn't emphasize it like he needed to he just skipped right over my suggestion so I'm telling you you need a different game and and said Mike you and I are helping Simon all the time get podcast going and other things let's connect him with Casey Crawford because I'm telling you the moment you meet this man and see what he's doing his community he's built a business he's built a huge business based on the fact of adding value to people and improving their lives the guy really has his values together so here we are mark just helping Simon all the time just you know finding out where this one green guys are amazing bringing him home thank you hey the feeling the feeling of I love you John it's been it's thank you for having me on here thank you for give me a platform to share my ideas it's I learn every time I interact with you I'm just a little bit wiser and I learned something every time just such a joy I really love you thank you so much love you too my friend you're very special thanks a lot for being with us thanks guys [Music]

Channel: John C. Maxwell

Views: 33,299

Rating: 4.9348836 out of 5

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Id: 3B7cYxrMLQs

Length: 65min 40sec (3940 seconds)

Published: Mon Jun 08 2020