♪ [APPLAUSE] >> Fr. Pacwa: THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WELCOME TO SCRIPTURE AND TRADITION WHERE WE TAKE A LOOK AT THE BOOKS OF THE BIBLE AND A VARIETY OF THINGS IN THE BIBLE. THIS IS A BIBLE STUDY SHOW. AND RIGHT NOW, WE'RE DEALING WITH THE TOPIC OF SIN, USING MY BOOK, WINNING THE BATTLE AGAINST SIN, WHICH I ORIGINALLY ENTITLED, SIN, I'M AGAINST IT BUT SOMETIMES I FORGET. [LAUGHTER] I KEEP MY CONFESSOR IN BUSINESS! BUT IT'S CALLED, WINNING THE BATTLE AGAINST SIN. WE'RE GOING THROUGH THAT. AND WE WANT TO DEAL WITH THE QUESTION OF FREE WILL. WE'RE CONTINUING TO DO SO. GOING THROUGH THE PASSAGES IN SCRIPTURE THAT DEAL WITH FREE WILL. WE'VE BEEN LOOKING AT PASSAGES IN THE OLD TESTAMENT. NOW, WE'RE GOING TO LOOK, TODAY, AT SOME OF THE NEW TESTAMENT PASSAGES. THE NEW TESTAMENT, EZEKIEL 18, DEUTERONOMY 30, AND THE REST OF THE OLD TESTAMENT ASSUMES THAT YOU CAN MAKE A DECISION ABOUT CHOOSING WHETHER TO DO RIGHT OR WRONG. THAT'S THE BASIC ASSUMPTION. LISTEN TO THE VERY FIRST PROCLAMATION BY JESUS CHRIST AS HE BEGAN TO PREACH IN GALILEE IN MARK 1:15. THE TIME IS FULFILLED. THAT'S A STATEMENT OF FACT. THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND. A SECOND STATEMENT OF FACT. THEN, HE GIVES THE EXHORTATION, REPENT AND BELIEVE IN THE GOSPEL. NOW, THE COMMAND TO REPENT, ON THE BASIS OF THESE TWO FACTS THAT THE FULLNESS OF TIME HAS COME -- AND BY THE WAY, HE'S REFERRING BACK TO A PROPHECY IN DANIEL, THAT WENT FROM THE TIME OF DANIEL TO THE TIME OF JESUS' PREACHING. AND TO THE YEAR. SO, THAT'S WHY IT'S FULFILLED. THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT HAD BEEN PREDICTED HUNDREDS OF YEARS EARLIER. AND THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND. THIS MEANS THAT IT'S CLOSE BY. SO, THEN, YOU HAVE A CHOICE. GIVEN THAT FACT, YOU CAN REPENT AND BELIEVE OR REFUSE TO REPENT. AND I FIND IT FASCINATING THAT OUR LORD BEGINS WITH A COMMAND TO REPENT BEFORE THE COMMAND TO BELIEVE. THIS GETS AT A VERY BASIC HUMAN REALITY. SIN DISTORTS OUR ABILITY TO PERCEIVE THE TRUTH. IF YOU BECOME HABITUATED TO SIN, AND THIS BECOMES YOUR ASSUMPTION, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO RECOGNIZE THE TRUTH WHEN YOU SEE IT AND BELIEVE. NOW, I'M NOT GOING INTO DETAIL ON THAT AT THIS POINT. BUT I LAY THAT OUT BEFORE YOU AS SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT IN TERMS OF WHAT OUR CULTURE IS SUGGESTING TO US. THEY LAY OUT BEFORE US THAT A LOT OF SINS ARE ABSOLUTELY NORMAL AND GOOD FOR YA! BUT THEY SAY, OH, I DON'T BELIEVE GOD WOULD DO THAT. YOU CAN SEE THAT THEIR ADVOCACY FOR SIN REMOVES THEIR CAPACITY TO RECOGNIZE THE TRUTH ABOUT GOD AND ABOUT HUMAN LIFE, MAKING AN ACT OF FAITH ON THAT BASIS. SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT. AND WE ALSO SEE THAT WITH THAT COMMAND TO REPENT, WE'RE DEALING WITH THE SAME KIND OF ISSUE THAT WE SAW WITH DEUTERONOMY 30 AND ESPECIALLY WITH EZEKIEL 18. A BAD PERSON CAN CONVERT. THEY CAN HAVE A CHANGE OF HEART BUT THEY NEED TO CHOOSE TO REPENT. AND THEN, WE ALSO SEE THAT GOOD PEOPLE CAN ALSO CHANGE AND START TO DO EVIL, THAT AT EVERY STEP OF LIFE, WE CAN MAKE A CHANGE IN OUR DIRECTION, FOR THE BETTER OR FOR THE WORSE. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE SEE, FOR INSTANCE, IN THE LETTER TO THE HEBREWS 3, BEGINNING WITH VERSE 12. HE BEGINS WITH A COMMAND AGAIN. AN EXHORTATION. TAKE CARE, BROTHERS AND SISTERS THAT, NONE OF YOU MAY HAVE AN EVIL, UNBELIEVING HEART THAT TURNS AWAY FROM THE LIVING GOD. BUT EXHORT ONE ANOTHER EVERYDAY AS LONG AS IT IS CALLED TODAY SO NONE OF YOU MAY BE HARDENED BY THE DECEITFULNESS OF SIN. FOR WE HAVE BECOME PARTNERS OF CHRIST IF ONLY WE HOLD OUR FIRST CONFIDENCE TO THE END. LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THAT. FIRST OF ALL, TO WHOM IS PAUL WRITING? NOT PAGANS, NOT JEWISH PEOPLE BUT TO CHRISTIANS. MOST OF WHOM WERE CONVERTS FROM JUDAISM TO CHRISTIANITY. SO, IT'S A JEWISH-CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY. BUT HE IS SPEAKING TO CHRISTIANS. AND YET, HE SAYS THAT ANYONE OF THEM CAN DEVELOP A, QUOTE, EVEN UNBELIEVING HEART, THAT CAN LEAD THEM TO FALL AWAY FROM GOD. NOW, THIS IS AT ATTENTION TO THE FAITH OF MANY CHRISTIANS TODAY. BECAUSE YOU HAVE SOME CHRISTIANS, THEY SAY, WELL, I PROFESSED FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST. THEREFORE, I'M SAVED. AND I CAN'T GET UNSAVED BECAUSE ONCE YOU ARE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS SAVED. NOW, THIS THAT IS A STATEMENT OF CERTAIN GROUPS' THEOLOGY. THAT'S NOT STATED ANYWHERE IN THE BIBLE. INSTEAD, WHAT WE SEE IN THE BIBLE IS THAT IT IS POSSIBLE FOR CHRISTIANS TO DEVELOP AN EVIL, UNBELIEVING HEART. WHEN SIN BECOMES MORE ATTRACTIVE THAN VIRTUE. WE CAN CHANGE OUR DIRECTION TOWARD THE SIN. AND WE CAN FALL AWAY FROM GOD ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURE. WHICH IS WHAT MAKES SENSE OF OUR LORD'S EXHORTATION IN MATTHEW 24 AND 25. ESPECIALLY 24. WHEN HE SAYS, A COUPLE OF TIMES, THEREFORE, STAY AWAKE. STAY ALERT. AND IN THE PARABLES, OF THE FIVE WISE AND FIVE FOOLISH VIRGINS. ALWAYS BE ALERT. SAME THING WITH THE THREE GUYS WITH THE TALENTS. ANOTHER PRINCIPLE IS THAT, LIKE, IN EZEKIEL 18, WE CONTINUE TO QUOTE SHARE IN CHRIST ONLY ON ONE CONDITION, NAMELY, THAT WE HOLD OUR FIRST CONFIDENCE FIRM TO THE END. LIFE IS NOT, SOME BY WHICH YOU MAY SAY, I'VE BEEN GOOD FOR THE FIRST 67, 68 YEARS, FOR SOME OF US. AND NOW, I'M GOING TO RELAX AND HAVE A LITTLE BIT BETTER TIME THAN I DID. NO. NO, NO. [LAUGHTER] I MENTIONED THIS LAST WEEK. THAT'S LIKE SAYING TO YOUR SPOUSE, YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN MARRIED 50 YEARS, I'VE NEVER CHEATED ON YOU ONCE, I THINK I WILL START NOW. OH, THAT WOULD BE FINE, HONEY. I DON'T THINK SO! I DON'T THINK SO! [LAUGHTER] AT LEAST, I CAN'T IMAGINE. I DON'T KNOW THAT SPOUSE WHO WOULD SAY IT WOULD BE OKAY. AND YOU KNOW, WHY IS THAT AN APT COMPARISON? BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT OUR INTERPERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD. SEE, SOMETIMES THERE'S A TEMPTATION TO THINK OF THE RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD IN TERMS OF A NEGOTIATION IN BUSINESS OR A LAW COURT NEGOTIATION. AND THERE ARE SOME LEGAL RAMIFICATIONS BUT IT'S BETTER TO KEEP AT THE VERY CENTER THAT IT IS AN INTERN PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD. JUST LIKE WITH YOUR SPOUSE, THAT'S AN ONGOING RELATIONSHIP UNTIL DEATH DO YOU PART. AND SO, YOU MAINTAIN THAT RELATIONSHIP AND WORK ON IT YOUR WHOLE LIFE, EVEN, I SAY, WELL, WE'RE RETIRED, I HAVE TO WORK ON IT. NO, NO. IT'S A NEW WORK. LIKE I OFTEN TELL, TALKING TO SOME RETIRED MEN, I SAID, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO FOR A HOBBY. YOU GOT TO GET YOURSELF OUT OF THE HOUSE. BECAUSE YOU STICK AROUND THE HOUSE, YOU ARE GOING TO DRIVE YOUR WIFE NUTS. AND I GUARANTEE YOU, SHE WILL RETURN THE FAVOR. SHE HAS HER ROUTINE, SO DON'T INTERFERE. RIGHT? AND FIND SOMETHING TO DO, AND THEN, WELL, BUT IT'S ALWAYS WORKING OUT, NEW STAGES OF THE RELATIONSHIP. THE HONEYMOON IS A LOT DIFFERENT THAN CHANGING DIAPERS. AND THEN, LATER ON TOWARD THE END OF THE LIFE, YOU GO ON TO CHANGING DIAPERS. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S PART OF LIFE AND WE GO THROUGH THESE CYCLES AND WE'RE ADAPTING TO THE RELATIONS. OH, I DON'T HAVE TO WORK ON THE RELATIONSHIP ANY MORE. NO, WE DO. YOU NEED TO STAY ALERT. AND THAT'S TRUE WITH OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD. THAT'S A VERY IMPORTANT THING TO SEE THAT WE SUSTAIN IT UNTIL THE TIME WE DIE AND STAND BEFORE THE JUDGMENT SEAT OF GOD, AS IT SAYS IN HEBREWS 9:27. IT'S APPOINTED FOR PEOPLE TO DIE ONCE, AND AFTER THAT, COMES THE JUDGMENT. SORRY, SHIRLEY MCLEAN, YOU DIE ONCE. WE SEE THAT THE SAME DOCTRINE IS TAUGHT IN HEBREWS 10. NOT JUST ONE VERSE, BUT IN VERSE 22. WHERE IT BEGINS, LET US APPROACH WITH A TRUE HEART IN FULL ASSURANCE OF FAITH, WITH OUR HEARTS SPRINKLED CLEAN FROM AN EVIL CONSCIENCE AND OUR BODIES WASHED WITH PURE WATER. WHAT IS HE ELUDING TO HERE? BAPTISM. THIS IS WHERE WE'VE BEEN WASHED IN BAPTISM AND WE APPROACH GOD WITH THAT. AGAIN, NOTICE THAT HERE, IN THAT FIRST VERSE, THAT THERE IS THIS MORAL CLEANLINESS JUST AS IN HEBREWS 3:12, BEWARE THAT THERE'S ANY EVIL, UNBELIEVING HEART THAT LEADS YOU TO FALL ASTRAY. IT'S WHAT I SAID AT THE VERY TOP OF THE SHOW. IF YOU START OFF WITH SIN, AS YOUR ASSUMPTION, YOU WILL DISTORT YOUR CAPACITY TO SEE THE TRUTH. AND THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT PRINCIPLE THAT OUR CULTURE DOESN'T LIKE VERY WELL, AT ALL. AND THIS THEN FOLLOWS, OR IT IS FOLLOWED IN VERSE 23, WITH ANOTHER WARNING. HE SAYS, IN VERSE 23-31. LET US HOLD FAST THE CONFESSION OF OUR HOPE WITHOUT WAVERING FOR HE WHO PROMISED IS FAITHFUL. SO, WHEN WE SAY THAT WE WANT TO STAY WATCHFUL, WE ARE NOT DOUBTING, JUST LIKE HEBREWS IS NOT DOUBTING THAT GOD IS NOT FAITHFUL. GOD IS FAITHFUL. I, ON THE OTHER HAND, MAY NOT ALWAYS BE. I'M THE ONE I KEEP AN EYE ON. I DON'T WORRY THAT GOD IS GOING TO GO BACK AWAY FROM ME. IT'S THAT I'M GOING TO GO AWAY FROM HIM. HE GOES ON, LET US CONSIDER, IN VERSE 24, HOW TO STIR UP ONE ANOTHER, TO LOVE AND GOOD WORKS. NOW, THAT'S ANOTHER THING THAT WE HAVE TO STIR UP LOVE. YOU DON'T JUST TAKE IT FOR GRANTED. JUST LIKE IN A MARRIAGE. OH, MY WIFE KNOWS I LOVE HER. I JUST SIT HERE AND I JUST WANT TO READ THE PAPER AND WATCH THE GAME. THAT'S AS MUCH AS DOUBLE-TASKING AS MEN CAN GET. HAVING PAPER IN HAND AND WATCHING THE GAME. THAT'S ABOUT AS GOOD AS DOUBLE TASKING. AND IF YOU DON'T TALK TO YOUR WIFE SAYING THAT'S OKAY, NO, IT'S NOT. WE HAVE TO STIR EACH OTHER UP TO LOVE AND GOOD WORKS. VERSE 25, NOT NEGLECTING TO MEET TOGETHER AS IS THE HABIT OF SOME, BUT ENCOURAGING ONE ANOTHER. AND ALL THE MORE, YOU SEE THE DAY IS DRAWING NEAR. THIS IS ADDRESSED TO THOSE WHO WERE NO LONGER ATTENDING MASS EVERY WEEK. WE HAVE MASS ON SUNDAYS, AND WE SEE THAT IN ALL OF THE WRITINGS IN THE EARLY CHURCH. AND PEOPLE WERE ALREADY NEGLECTING IN THE 1960'S, NOT THE 1960'S! I REMEMBER THOSE. NO, IT'S THE 60AD THAT I DON'T REMEMBER BECAUSE THAT'S BEFORE MY TIME. AND MAKE SURE YOU DON'T NEGLECT TO BE THERE FOR WORSHIP. AND IN VERSE 26, FOR IF WE SIN DELIBERATELY AFTER RECEIVING THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, THEN NO LONGER REMAINS A SACRIFICE FOR SINS BUT A FEARFUL PROSPECT OF JUDGMENT AND A FURY OF FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. A MAN WHO VIOLATED THE LAW OF MOSES DIES WITHOUT THE MERCY AND HOW MUCH WORSE THE PUNISHMENT DO YOU THINK IS DESERVED BY THE ONE WHO HAS SPURNED THE SON OF GOD AND PROFANED THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT BY WHICH HE WAS SANCTIFIED, AND OUTRAGED THE SPIRIT OF GRACE. FOR ME KNOW HIM WHO SAID, VENGEANCE IS MINE, AND I WILL REPAY. AGAIN, THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE. IT IS A FEARFUL THING TO FALL INTO THE HANDS OF THE LIVING GOD. NOW, THIS AGAIN IS A WARNING ADDRESSED TO CHRISTIANS, NOT OUTSIDERS. HE'S WARNING THEM THAT THEY CAN SIN DELIBERATELY AFTER RECEIVING THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH. THAT'S WHY THE SCRIPTURE ITSELF NEGATES THE DOCTRINE OF ONCE YOU ARE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS SAVED. THAT'S WHY YOU DON'T SEE THAT DOCTRINE WRITTEN DOWN IN SCRIPTURE. IT'S NOT THERE. INSTEAD, WE SEE THAT, IF YOU SIN DELIBERATELY AFTER YOU RECEIVE THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, THEN THEIR NO LONGER MEANS THAT THERE WAS A SACRIFICE OF SIN. AND FALL BACK ON THE PARABLE OF THE SOWER AND THE SEED. SOME FELL ON THE PATH. WHY? BECAUSE IT NEVER SUNK IN. THE PATH HAS BEEN STEPPED ON, SO THEY NEVER RECEIVED IT. BUT THERE ARE TWO OTHER KINDS OF GROUND. ONE KIND OF GROUND WAS SO SHALLOW IT GREW UP QUICKLY AND THEN WITHERED BECAUSE THEY HAD NO DEPTH. THERE ARE PEOPLE LIKE THAT, THEY HAVE NO DEPTH. OTHERS, THE THORNS AND THISTLES CHOKED OUT THE SEED BECAUSE THERE WAS SO MUCH FOCUS ON THEIR OWN COMMITMENT TO WEALTH AND OTHER CARES OF THIS WORLD. AND THEY CHOKED OUT THE WORD. BUT THAT PARABLE ALSO INDICATES THAT CHRISTIANS WHO RECEIVED THE WORD EITHER SUPERFICIALLY OR WHO ALLOWED OTHER THINGS TO CHOKE IT OUT COULD LOSE THAT WORD. HEBREWS IS SAYING THE SAME THING HERE IN VERSE 26. SO, THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS THING. WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT AFTER WE HAVE RECEIVED THIS KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH THAT WE DON'T SIN DELIBERATELY. THAT WE ARE TO HAVE A CLEAR SENSE THAT WE OUGHT NOT TO CHOOSE TO GO AGAINST THE WORD OF GOD. LIKE SOME PEOPLE DO. THIS IS NOT FOR THE 60'S AD. IT APPLIES TO THE 2010'S AND TO ANY OTHER PERIOD OF HISTORY. THIS IS A HUMAN TEMPTATION. SO, LET'S TAKE A BREAK AND WE'LL COME BACK TO DISCUSS MORE OF THESE PASSAGES FROM THE NEW TESTAMENT. SO, PLEASE, STAY WITH US. [APPLAUSE] ♪ ♪ [APPLAUSE] >> Fr. Pacwa: ALL RIGHT. WE ARE CONTINUING ON WITH TAKING A LOOK AT THIS ISSUE OF HOW HUMAN FREE WILL IS PART OF THE SCRIPTURE TEACHING, AND THAT WE SEE ESPECIALLY IN HEBREWS 3:12, HEBREWS 10:22 AND SHOWING HOW WE HAVE TO MAKE CERTAIN DECISIONS. AND THAT THESE DECISIONS ARE ON GOING AS PART OF OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD AS A LIFETIME PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP. THEREFORE, WE HAVE TO MAKE DECISIONS AT EVERY STEP OF THE WAY JUST AS WE DO IN OUR OTHER RELATIONSHIPS. THAT'S WHY, AS WE SAW IN HEBREWS 10:23, THAT WE'RE TOLD TO HOLD FAST THE CONFESSION OF OUR HOPE WITHOUT WAVERING. NOTICE, I LIKE THIS TOO. IT'S HOLDING FAST TO THE CONFESSION OF OUR HOPE THIS EPISTLE MENTIONS THIS HOPE A NUMBER OF TIMES. AND LIKE TO HIGHLIGHT THAT BECAUSE SO OFTEN, THINK THAT MODERN PEOPLE HAVE LOST THE VIRTUE OF HOPE. I DON'T SENSE, IT'S NOT ONLY FAITH, IT IS THAT TOO. BUT THERE'S A CERTAIN DESPERATION IN MODERN EXISTENCE THAT, FOR INSTANCE, WITH THE USE OF A LOT OF DRUGS TO HIDE THE PAIN, COVER THE PAIN, ET CETERA. THAT'S JUST ONE MANIFESTATION. ALSO, WITH THIS SEXUAL LICENSE, THERE'S NO HOPE OF REAL FUTURE. SO, I DON'T WANT KIDS TO COME OUT OF IT. SO, I'LL KILL THEM IN I GET ONE. BUT I WANT THE SEXUAL PLEASURE BECAUSE THAT'S ALL I GOT. WHY WOULD YOU BRING KIDS INTO THIS WORLD? I HEAR THAT FROM YOUNG PEOPLE WHO OUGHT TO BE FAR MORE NAIVE AND LESS CYNICAL. FOR OLD PEOPLE, YEAH, WE CAN BE CYNICAL, WE HAVE REASON TO BE. BUT THE YOUNG PEOPLE OUGHT TO BE MUCH MORE IDEALISTIC IN LOOKING TO THE FUTURE. AND I HEAR A HOPELESSNESS AND DESPAIR, A LOT. SO, THIS IS ALL THE MORE REASON FOR US WHO DO HAVE FAITH. AND BY THE WAY, I'M JUST A LITTLE CYNICAL, BUT NOT TOO MUCH. ALL RIGHT. NOW, THERE'S A THIRD PASSAGE IN HEBREWS THAT I WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT, STILL IN CHAPTER 10 OF HEBREWS. BUT IT BEGINS IN VERSE 35. LET'S START OFF WITH, YEAH, VERSE 35. THEREFORE, DO NOT THROW AWAY YOUR CONFIDENCE. REMEMBER, CONFIDENCE IS A VIRTUE CLOSELY ALIGNED WITH HOPE. IF YOU HAVE HOPE, THEN YOU HAVE CONFIDENCE THAT THINGS WILL WORK OUT. SO, DO NOT THROW AWAY YOUR CONFIDENCE WHICH HAS A GREAT REWARD. FOR YOU HAVE NEED OF ENDURANCE SO THAT YOU MAY DO THE WILL OF GOD AND RECEIVE WHAT IS PROMISED. YET, A LITTLE WHILE IN THE COMING WILL COME AND SHALL NOT TARRY. BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH. AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM. BUT WE ARE NOT OF THOSE WHO SHRINK BACK AND ARE DESTROYED BUT OF THOSE WHO HAVE FAITH AND KEEP THEIR SOULS. NOW, HE SEES THAT NOT ONLY DOES HE HAVE HOPE BUT HE CONNECTS HIS HOPE TO FAITH. THE TWO GO TOGETHER. NOW, REMEMBER, BOTH, FAITH AND HOPE ARE CALLED THEOLOGICAL VIRTUES, ALONG WITH LOVE. THAT IS BECAUSE THEY DEPEND ON GOD'S GRACE. HOPE IS NOT THE SAME AS OPTIMISM. OPTIMISM IS HAVING A HUMAN IDEA OR PLAN FOR THE WAY THE FUTURE SHOULD GO. IF YOU DO WHAT I SAY, WELL, WE'LL HAVE A WONDERFUL FUTURE. THAT'S OFTEN WHAT WE DO GET FROM A LOT OF POLITICIANS AND ECONOMISTS AND PHILOSOPHERS WHO COME UP WITH ALL SORTS OF SCHEMES FOR THE FUTURE. AND IF YOU WOULD JUST LISTEN TO ME, IT WOULD BE A WONDERFUL WORLD. AND THEN WE'D ALL BE SINGING ALONG WITH SATCHMO, WHAT A WONDERFUL WORLD. SOME OF YOU YOUNGER FOLKS MAY NOT REMEMBER HIM! BUT IT WAS A GREAT SONG. BUT WE DON'T HAVE OPTIMISM IN HUMAN SCHEMES. WE HAVE HOPE IN THAT GOD HAS PROMISED, WHAT GOD HAS PROMISED. AND WHEN HE SAYS, DO NOT THROW AWAY YOUR CONFIDENCE. IT MEANS THAT YOU CAN DO SO. HE WOULDN'T TELL US, IN HEBREWS, NOT TO THROW IT AWAY UNLESS IT WERE POSSIBLE. WE CAN TURN AWAY FROM OUR CONFIDENCE AND ALSO, HE'S WARNING US NOT TO SHRINK BACK FROM OUR FAITH BECAUSE IT IS POSSIBLE TO DO SO, AS MANY PEOPLE HAVE DONE AT VARIOUS TIMES. BEGINNING WITH JUDAS ISCARIOT OR THE PEOPLE WHO, WHEN THEY HEARD JESUS TEACH ABOUT THE EUCHARIST SAID, THIS IS A HARD SAYING. AND THEY LEFT HIM. ALSO, IT'S BY THE WAY, THE FIRST TIME, THAT IT IS MENTIONED IN JOHN'S GOSPEL THAT JUDAS WOULD BETRAY HIM. THE BETRAYAL BY JUDAS IS MENTIONED AT THE SAME TIME THAT THE DISCIPLES LEAVE AT THE TEACHING OF THE EUCHARIST. AND THEN WHEN DOES JUDAS ACTUALLY DEPART? HE'S THE ONE WHO THE MODEL, PRIMARY MODEL FOR ALL THOSE WHO LEAVE MASS EARLY! HE DEPARTED FROM MASS BEFORE ANYBODY ELSE, INCLUDING THE CELEBRANT, OUR LORD. AND WENT OFF TO BETRAY OUR LORD. SO, WE NEED ENDURANCE SO WE CAN BE FAITHFUL UNTIL VERY END OF OUR LIVES. AND THEN, WE HAVE THIS GREAT REWARD THAT IS PROMISED US THAT AS WE GO FORWARD WE WILL BE LOVED BY GOD FOR ALL ETERNITY. THAT'S WHAT HEAVEN IS ABOUT. TO BE LOVED BY OUR LORD FOR ALL ETERNITY. SO, WHEREAS, IF WE FORSAKE THE FAITH AND GIVE UP OUR HOPE FOR BEING IN HEAVEN WITH GOD, THEN IT WILL LEAD TO OUR DESTRUCTION, DESTRUCTION OF OUR SOUL IN HELL. NOT THE DISSOLUTION OF IT. IT WILL JUST SUFFER IN HELL, FAR WORSE THAN ANY OF THE SUFFERINGS THAT WE TRY TO AVOID HERE. NOW, WE ALSO SEE, IN ANOTHER ISSUE ABOUT MAKING DECISIONS. A PARABLE THAT OUR LORD TAUGHT IN MATTHEW'S GOSPEL, ABOUT A MAN WHO HAD A COUPLE OF SONS. WITH THIS, IT'S WHAT YOU THINK, MATTHEW 21:28-32. WHAT DO YOU THINK? A MAN HAD TWO SONS. HE WENT TO THE FIRST AND SAID, SON, GO AND WORK IN THE VINEYARD TODAY. AND HE ANSWERED, I WILL NOT. BUT AFTERWARD, HE REPENTED AND WENT. AND HE WENT TO THE SECOND SON, AND SAID THE SAME THING. AND HE SAID, I GO, SIR. BUT HE DID NOT GO. WHICH OF THE TWO DID THE WILL OF HIS FATHER? THE ONE WHO SAID, I WON'T DO IT BUT THEN CHANGES A AND DOES IT OR THE KID WHO SAID, I WILL DO IT AND THEN DOESN'T GO. THE ANSWER IS OBVIOUS. AND THE PEOPLE SAID, THE FIRST. THAT'S THE ONE WHO SAID I WON'T DO IT BUT WENT AHEAD AND DID HIS FATHER'S WILL ANY WAY. AND JESUS REPLIED TO THAT CORRECT ANSWER, TRULY I SAY TO YOU, THE TAX COLLECTORS AND THE HARLOTS GO INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD BEFORE YOU, FOR JOHN -- THAT IS JOHN THE BAPTIST -- CAME TO YOU IN THE WAY OF RIGHTEOUSNESS AND YOU DID NOT BELIEVE HIM. BUT THE TAX COLLECTORS AND THE HARLOTS BELIEVED HIM. AND EVEN WHEN YOU SAW THAT, YOU DID NOT AFTERWARD REPENT AND BELIEVE HIM. SO, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO KEEP VERY CLEARLY IN MIND. THAT IT'S NOT EVEN IF WE SAY IT. BUT OFTENTIMES, THIS IS ASSOCIATED WITH THE KIND OF CRITICISM THAT IS LEVELED AGAINST CHRISTIANS. WELL, CHRISTIANS ARE A BUNCH OF HYPOCRITES. YEAH, THERE'S A LOT OF HYPOCRITES IN THE CHURCH AND LOTS OF US SAY, YEAH, WE'LL DO WHAT GOD SAYS. AND WE DON'T DO IT. BUT WE WANT TO BE SEEN AND THOUGHT OF AS DOING IT. BUT LET ME ASSURE YOU, THAT'S NOT LIMITED TO THE PEOPLE WHO GO TO CHURCH. THERE ARE PLENTY OF ATHEISTS WHO ARE QUITE HYPOCRITICAL AND OTHER PEOPLE AS WELL. AND I ALWAYS SAY, SURE, THERE'S A LOT OF HYPOCRITES IN CHURCH BUT COME ON AND JOIN US, THERE'S ROOM FOR ONE MORE! WE CAN INCLUDE YOU. YOU FIT IN JUST FINE. [LAUGHTER] NO, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO MAKE A CHOICE. WILL WE MAKE THE DECISION TO DO WHAT GOD SAID, EVEN WHEN WE'VE GONE BACK AND FORTH. AND THIS IS ONE OF THE GREAT THINGS ABOUT HEARING CONFESSIONS AS A PRIEST. THAT SO OFTEN, KNOWING WHAT'S GOING ON, SOMETHING CATCHES AND SOMETHING ABOUT REALITY HITS A PERSON AND THEY BEGIN TO WANT WHAT'S TRUE AND GOOD AND THEY REPENT. AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH. SO, IN TERMS OF CONCLUDING ABOUT THIS WHOLE MATERIAL ON FREE WILL, AGAIN, KEEP IN MIND, SOMETHING THAT WE TALKED ABOUT A FEW WEEKS AGO. WE'RE LIKE CLAY. WE'RE GOING TO BE MOLDED AND SHAPED. AND THIS IS THROUGH THE WHOLE OF LIFE, OUR WHOLE LIFE IS GOING TO BE A LIFE OF BEING SHAPED BY DIFFERENT FORCES. AND WE GET TO MAKE A CHOICE, WILL WE BE SHAPED BY THE WORLD AROUND US SO THAT WE WANT TO GET ALONG WITH EVERYBODY SO WE'LL GO ALONG WITH EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE CULTURE DOING WHATEVER THEY SAY. WHEN THEY SAY JUMP, WE ONLY WANT TO KNOW HOW HIGH IS COOL? AND BEING COOL IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN WHAT IS TRUE. WE CAN BE SHAPED BY THE EVIL SPIRIT, THE DEVIL. AND HE WILL DISTORT US. HE WILL OFFER US ALL SORTS OF INTERESTING OPTIONS BUT IT WILL BECOME A HORRENDOUS DISTORTION. THINK BACK, I MENTIONED IN MY HOMILY TODAY FOR ST. JOSEPH THE WORKER. BUT THINK OF HOW THE IDEAL OF A PERFECT SOCIETY IS WHAT THE NATIONAL SOCIALISTS OFFERED IN GERMANY. AND THEN, NATIONAL SOCIALISTS BROUGHT ABOUT THE DESTRUCTION OF NOT ONLY THE OTHER PEOPLE OF EUROPE BUT OF GERMANY AS WELL. AND THEN HITLER COMMITTED SUICIDE. THE COMMUNISTS PROMISED A WORKERS' PARADISE AND THEY CREATED A HELL, MURDERING 61.9 MILLION OF THEIR OWN CITIZENS. AND MAO PROMISED PERFECT LIFE FOR COMMUNIST CHINA AND KILLED AT LEAST 75 MILLION AND PROBABLY ABOVE 90 MILLION PEOPLE. AND SOMEBODY KILLED HIS OWN POPULATION IN THE NAME OF AN IDEAL SOCIETY. THIS IS DEMONIC. AND WE HAVE THIS IDEOLOGY, WELL, IT'S BETTER FOR A CHILD TO BE ABORTED THAN TO BE UNHAPPY. IS THAT NOT WHAT THEY SAY? THIS IS THEIR LOGIC, AND THAT'S A DEMONIC LOGIC. OR THE RACISM OF PLANNED PARENTHOOD. WELL, BLACKS ARE A WEED AND WE NEED TO ELIMINATE THEM. THAT'S MARGARET SAENGER AND I DON'T KNOW HOW PEOPLE CAN ACCEPT MARGARET SAENGER AWARDS. AND THEN WE HAVE OURSELVES, TRYING TO BUILD UP OUR EGO, MAKING US NASTY. OR WE CAN LET GOD THE CREATOR MOLD US INTO HIS OWN IMAGE AND LIKENESS, TO BE LIKE HIM. AND THAT THIS IS THE REASON HE MADE US, TO BE IN HIS IMAGE AND LIKENESS. THAT'S TODAY'S READING FROM GENESIS 1. GIVEN THOSE OPTIONS, WE HAVE TO MAKE CHOICES, FUNDAMENTAL CHOICES. AND CONSTANT DAILY CHOICES, ABOUT RIGHT AND WRONG. SO THAT WE DON'T REST AND SAY, OH, I LIKE GOD ONCE IN MY LIFE. NO. IT'S CONSTANT FORMATION. CONSTANTLY THE WHEEL IS TURNING ON THE CLAY, AND WE'RE CONSTANTLY BEING SHAPED. AND WE HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION AT ANY MOMENT IN LIFE TO BE FAITHFUL TO GOD OR TO TURN AGAINST HIM. WE CAN DO SO AT ANY TIME. SO, WE HAVE TO SEE THAT THIS IS PART OF THE ON GOING RELATIONSHIP AND LET GOD SHAPE US SO THAT WE DON'T GIVE UP OUR FAITH, OUR HOPE, OR OUR LOVE. BUT WE ALWAYS TURN TO HIS GRACES AND ACCEPT THOSE GRACES AND ACCEPT HIS TRUTH. AND THEN, WE LOOK TO THEDATE DAY WHEN EVENTUALLY THE CLAY GETS FIRED. THAT'S WHAT THE DAY OF DEATH IS. WHEN WE DIE, THE CLAY IS FIRED. THAT'S WHEN HE GETS ITS PERMANENT SHAPE. YOU CAN'T REMOLD CLAY AFTER ITS BEEN FIRED. GOING TO THE KILN OF DEATH GIVES OUR SOULS A PERMANENT SHAPE EITHER AS SOMETHING HIDEOUS, AND AS DANIEL 12 SAYS, AN ETERNAL NIGHTMARE. OR WE SHINE LIKE THE SUN. THIS IS THE CHOICE. AND SO, LET US BE PEOPLE WHO MAKE THAT CHOICE CONSTANTLY, LETTING GOD SHAPE US SO THAT WHEN WE DO DIE AND GO THROUGH THE KILN OF DEATH, THEN AT THAT MOMENT, GOD LOOKS AT US AND SAYS, YEAH, HE IS IN MY IMAGE AND LIKENESS. SHE IS JUST LIKE ME! OH. AND BE DELIGHTED TO SEE US. SO, THIS IS THE GREAT CHOICE. ALL RIGHT. WE WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT SOME QUESTIONS THAT WE MIGHT HAVE FROM PEOPLE HERE IN OUR STUDIO AUDIENCE. AND LET'S START OFF AS WELL WITH YOUR QUESTIONS IF YOU WANT TO CALL IN TOO. LET'S START OFF WITH THIS LADY HERE, MA'AM, WHERE ARE YOU FROM? >> WELL, I'M FROM WASHINGTON AND I'M ON THE ROAD TRAVELING WITH MY LITTLE TRAILER AND ME. >> DID YOU TAKE THE FERRY ACROSS OVER TO THE MAINLAND THERE? OR DID YOU DRIVE ALONG THE PENINSULA. >> I DROVE SOUTH ON THE PENINSULA. >> YEAH YEAH. THERE'S A BRIDGE NOW. I'VE BEEN OVER THAT, AND IT'S REALLY BEAUTIFUL. IN FACT, THAT'S WHERE ONE VERY FAMOUS COFFEE COMPANY GOT STARTED. THEY WERE SELLING COFFEE ON THE FERRIES. AND THEY HAD THE CONCESSION, THEY MADE IT SO STRONG, DARK, AND BURNT. AND IF YOU WANTED COFFEE, YOU GOT THAT. AND THEN THEY DEVELOPED A TASTE. SO, AT ANY RATE, MA'AM, WHAT'S YOUR QUESTION? >> Voice: FATHER PACWA, EARLIER, YOU SPOKE THAT THERE WAS NO PLACE IN THE BIBLE THAT STATES ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED. MY QUESTION IS NON CATHOLIC CHRISTIANS BELIEVE THIS. OF COURSE, THEY BASE THEIR FAITH ON IT. AND WHERE DO THEY BACK IT UP THEN, IN THE BIBLE, AND FIND THAT WE'RE NOT CHRISTIAN AS WELL? >> Fr. Pacwa: RIGHT. GREAT QUESTION. FIRST OF ALL, THIS DEPENDS ON SOME OF THE ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT HUMAN NATURE THAT THEY LEARNED FROM JOHN CALVIN, SOMEWHAT FROM LUTHER, BUT MORE FROM JOHN CALVIN. HE MADE IT EVEN MORE RADICAL THAN LUTHER. MAINLY THE ASSUMPTION THAT HUMANITY IS TOTALLY DEPRAVED. SO, THAT THEY HAVE A LITTLE TEA IN THE TULIP SYMBOL STANDS FOR TOTAL DEPRAVITY. THAT MEANS THAT HUMAN BEINGS ARE SO DEPRAVED, NOT MERELY FALLEN INTO ORIGINAL SIN BUT TOTALLY DEPRAVED THAT SUCH THAT NO HUMAN BEING CAN MAKE A DECISION OF FAITH. IN CALL VEINS TEACHING -- CALVIN'S TEACHING AND I'VE HEARD IT DISPUTED BUT SOME SAY IT WAS HIS DISCIPLES, SOON AFTER. BUT YOU CANNOT MAKE A DECISION TO BELIEVE BECAUSE YOUR WILL IS SO DEPRAVED AND SO DISTORTED THAT YOU CAN'T DO IT. SO, THEREFORE, GOD MAKES YOU TAKE FAITH. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THEN LEADS TO THE NEXT STEP. AND I KNOW THIS WAS CALVIN'S DISCIPLES. THAT AND MY OWN JESUIT BROTHERS WHO FORCED THEM INTO THIS POSITION BY TAKING IT TO A LOGICAL CONCLUSION. THAT THEY THEN HAD TO COME UP WITH THE DOCTRINE OF DOUBLE-PREDESTINATION, THAT GOD PREDESTINES SOME PEOPLE TO ACCEPT FAITH. AND HE MAKES YOU TAKE IT. OR IF HE DOESN'T PREDESTINE YOU, THEN HE PREDESTINES YOU TO HELL AND DOESN'T LET YOU ACCEPT FAITH. ALL GOD'S DECISION. AND ONCE YOU ACCEPT THAT IDEA, THAT THERE'S NO FREE WILL AND YOU CANNOT MAKE A DECISION, THEN AT THAT POINT, IF GOD FORCES YOU TO TAKE THAT GRACE OF FAITH, THEN HE WON'T TAKE IT BACK. THAT'S WHAT THEY OFTEN SAY. HE WON'T TAKE IT BACK. THAT'S WHY YOU ARE ALWAYS SAVED. IF HE MADE YOU TAKE IT, HE WON'T TAKE IT BACK. SO, THAT'S WHERE THAT DOCTRINE COMES FROM. IT'S MORE OF A THEOLOGICAL POSITION RATHER THAN A SCRIPTURE PASSAGE. AND THEN THEY INTERPRET OTHER PASSAGES OF SCRIPTURE THAT YOU ARE SAVED BY FAITH, COMES TO YOU BY GRACE, NOT BY WORKS. THEREFORE, THAT'S IT. SO, THEY USE THAT OFTENTIMES AS A PASSAGE. BUT IT DOESN'T SAY, ONCE YOU ARE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED. THERE'S ASSUMPTION OF THE ROLE OF GRACE AND LACK OF FREE WILL BY HUMANS IS WHERE THAT COMES FROM. WE HAVE TO TAKE A LITTLE BREAK. BUT WE'LL COME BACK AND DEAL WITH MORE OF YOUR QUESTIONS. WE'D LOVE TO HAVE YOU CALL IN OR WE'LL GET MORE QUESTIONS HERE FROM THE STUDIO AUDIENCE AS WELL AS EMAILS. SO, PLEASE, STAY WITH US! [APPLAUSE] ♪ ♪ [APPLAUSE] >> Fr. Pacwa: THANK YOU. THANK YOU. FIRST OF ALL, BEFORE WE GET BACK TO SOME OF THE QUESTIONS, I WANT TO MENTION THAT ON NOVEMBER 3, 2018, WE ARE PLANNING TO BE IN JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA. BEAUTIFUL PLACE! WONDERFUL TOWN. I REALLY LIKE THAT PLACE. AND WE'LL HAVE AN EWTN FAMILY CELEBRATION DOWN THERE. LOOKING FORWARD TO IT. IF YOU GET A CHANCE TO COME, YOU OUGHT TO. NOT ONLY FOR THE FAMILY CELEBRATION BUT NOT FAR AWAY, IN FACT, IT'S THE SAME DIOCESE IS ST. AUGUSTINE WHICH IS THE OLDEST SETTLEMENT IN THE CONTINENTAL UNITED STATES. AND IT'S BASED ON THE EARLY SPANISH AND LOTS OF FRIARS GOT THAT STARTED. SO, WE WOULD LOVE TO HAVE YOU CONTACT ewtn.com/FAMILY CELEBRATION. GET SOME MORE INFORMATION. AND I WANT TO CONTINUE ON WITH SOMETHING, TOO. THE LAST QUESTION WE HAD ABOUT ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED. IT'S A LITTLE BIT COMPLICATED. PARTLY BECAUSE OF THIS. YOU KNOW, THIS ISSUE THAT JOHN CALVIN AND HIS SCHOOL OF THEOLOGY AND THOUGHT INTRODUCED HAS BEEN VERY CONTROVERSIAL WITHIN PROTESTANTISM. IT'S THE ORIGIN OF THE IDEA OF ONCE YOU ARE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED. BUT IT RAN INTO PROBLEMS AND YOU HAD A NUMBER OF CALVINISTS REJECT SOME OF THAT. ONE WAS A DUTCH THEOLOGIAN NAMED ARMENIUS WHO BELIEVED THAT YOU CAN MAKE A DECISION. AND THEN, IN OUR OWN UNITED STATES, YOU HAVE ROGER WILLIAMS, THE FOUNDER OF RHODE ISLAND COLONY, WHO HAD LEFT MASSACHUSETTS COLONY BECAUSE HE SAW THAT THIS WAS NOT WORKING OUT SO WELL. A COROLLARY OF CALVIN'S DOCTRINE IS, IF I CAN'T CHOOSE, HOW DO I KNOW I'M SAVED? ISN'T THAT THE QUESTION THAT PROTESTANTS TEND TO ASK AND CATHOLICS DON'T? HAVE YOU NOTICED THAT? CATHOLICS DON'T REALLY ASK THAT QUESTION, HOW DO I KNOW I'M SAVED? BUT IF CALVIN IS CORRECT AND YOU HAVE NO FREE WILL TO SAY YES OR NO, THEN, WELL, I CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT, SO HOW DO I KNOW IF I AM SAVED? WELL, IN GENERAL, CALVIN SAID, YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE SAVED IF YOU ARE ACTING IN A MORAL WAY AND YOU PROSPER. THAT WAS A SHORT ANSWER. WELL, A LOT OF THE PURITANS DIDN'T PROSPER WHEN THEY CAME TO MASSACHUSETTS. SO, DOES THAT MEAN THAT THEY WERE CONDEMNED? THAT WAS THE QUESTION THAT BOTHERED ROGER WILLIAMS. SO, HE BECAME THE FOUNDER OF THE BAPTIST CHURCH. AND THAT'S WHY SOMEBODY LIKE REVEREND BILLY GRAHAM DID NOT TEACH WHAT CALVIN SAID. HE SAID, MAKE A DECISION FOR CHRIST. CALVIN WOULD HAVE DECLARED HIM A HERETIC. BECAUSE YOU CAN'T DO THAT BY CALVIN'S DOCTRINE. BUT REVEREND GRAHAM AND MOST FOLKS, YOU KNOW, ARE MORE SENSIBLE ABOUT THAT, THAT YOU DO HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION. THAT'S THAT'S WHAT THEY CALL PEOPLE TO DO. SOMETIMES EVEN STILL, AFTER THEY COME BACK TO THE CATHOLIC DOCTRINE OF FREE WILL, THEY STILL MAINTAIN ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED. IT'S A LITTLE INCONSISTENT THERE. BUT THAT'S A JUST A LITTLE MORE ON THAT ISSUE. LET'S GO TO A STUDIO QUESTION. MA'AM, WHERE ARE YOU FROM? >> Voice: I'M FROM BOWLING GREEN, MISSOURI. >> Fr. Pacwa: GOOD TO HAVE YOU. WHAT'S YOUR QUESTION? >> Voice: REGARDING SCRIPTURE, WHAT IT SAYS ABOUT JESUS' EARLY MINISTRY PARTICULARLY, WHEN HE WAS FOUND IN THE TEMPLE. I WAS LISTENING TO A RADIO SHOW A FEW WEEKS AGO. AND THEY MENTIONED THAT PERHAPS MARY MIGHT HAVE GUIDED JESUS OUT OF THE TEMPLE IN SAYING IT'S NOT QUITE TIME FOR YOU TO START YOUR PUBLIC MINISTRY. WAS SHE BEING A MOTHER, BEING INSPIRED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT? DID HE REALLY WANT TO START HIS PUBLIC MINISTRY AT THAT AGE? >> Fr. Pacwa: WELL, HERE'S ONE OF THE THINGS I WOULD SAY, FIRST OF ALL. I WANT TO SEE THE WORDS OF OUR LADY SAYING THAT. SEE, SOMETIMES PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, BRING INTO THEIR MEDITATION ON THE TEXT THEIR OWN IMAGINATION. HOW THEY WOULD HAVE REACTED IF THEY WERE THE BLESSED MOTHER. I'LL BET THE PERSON THAT SAID THAT WAS A MOM. SHE MIGHT HAVE BEEN. BECAUSE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOUNG MAN, YOU STAY IN SCHOOL UNTIL I SAY YOU FINISH. THAT'S WHAT I WOULD IMAGINE THAT MY MOM WOULD HAVE SAID. AND SHE DID, YOU KNOW. YOU GOT TO FINISH UP SCHOOL. BUT I DON'T SEE THOSE WORDS THERE. AFTER OUR LORD SAYS, DID YOU NOT KNOW HOW TO BE ABOUT MY FATHER'S STUFF, BUSINESS, OR MY FATHER'S HOUSE. YOU KNOW, IT'S A VAGUE ENOUGH STATEMENT. AND IT'S SILENCE. THAT GIVES US PAUSE, TO LISTEN TO THE SILENCE. AND THE RESPONSE THAT OUR LADY GIVES IS NOT TO SAY, LOOK, YOU START THIS CAREER LATER ON WHEN I TELL YOU. NO. THAT'S NOT IT. IT'S RATHER, SHE STORED THIS IN HER HEART. THAT'S THE NEXT TIME WE SEE THAT MENTIONED. THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT SHE MEDITATES ON. AND SINCE SHE'S THE ONLY WITNESS TO THAT EVENT, WHO IS STILL ALIVE WHEN THE NEW TESTAMENT STARTS TO GET WRITTEN, SHE PROBABLY IS THE SOURCE OF THAT AND JUST LAID BEFORE US THE SILENCE AND THE WONDER WHICH IS WHY WE CALL IT ONE OF THE MYSTERIES OF THE ROSARY, WE GET DRAWN INTO IT. NOW, WE HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION FROM THE STUDIO AUDIENCE. SIR, WHERE ARE YOU FROM? >> Voice: MY WIFE AND I LIVE IN A COMMUNITY WEST OF ST. LOUIS, ACROSS THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER CALLED ST. CHARLES. >> Fr. Pacwa: OKAY. YOUR QUESTION? >> Voice: I'VE ALWAYS BEEN CONFLICTED BY THE CHURCH'S TEACHING, WHERE TWO OR MORE ARE GATHERED, I WILL BE IN YOUR MIDST. >> Fr. Pacwa: THAT'S OUR LORD'S STATEMENT IN THE GOSPEL OF ST. MATTHEW. >> Voice: YES. OKAY. WHERE DOES OUR OWN PRAYER FIT INTO THAT MIXTURE THERE? >> Fr. Pacwa: WELL, IT'S THE SAME GOSPEL. TAKE A LOOK, THE PASSAGE THAT YOU ARE MENTIONING IS IN MATTHEW 18, WHERE TWO OR MORE ARE GATHERED IN MY NAME, THERE AM I IN THEIR MIDST. WHEREAS, WE SEE EARLIER IN MATTHEW 6, WHEN YOU PRAY, DON'T DO IT LIKE THE HYPOCRITES DO, WHERE THEY SHOUT OUT AND THEY WANT PEOPLE TO BE IMPRESSED WITH HOW LOUD THEY PRAY. GO TO YOUR OWN PRAYER ROOM AND PRAY. SO, OUR PRAYER HAS THESE DIFFERENT ASPECTS TO IT. THERE'S A PERSONAL, PRIVATE ASPECT OF THE RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD THAT WE SEE IN PRAYER. AND THEN, WE GO ALONG AND CHRIST IS IN OUR MIDST. THERE'S ALSO A SMALLER GROUP EXPERIENCE. YOU KNOW, SMALL GROUPS OF PEOPLE OF THE AND THEN, WE SEE ALSO WHERE WE HAVE HERE IN HEBREWS. DON'T NEGLECT THE WEEKLY MEETINGS, REFERRING TO MASS. NOW, IS THAT NOT NICELY PARALLEL TO A FAMILY RELATIONSHIP? ARE THERE NOT TIMES WHEN MOM AND DAD NEED TO HAVE QUIET TIME ALONE. THERE'S A LOT OF COMMUNICATION THEY HAVE TO DO. DOES THAT MEAN THAT'S THE ONLY TIME THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO TALK? NO. THEY ALSO SIT DOWN WITH THE KIDS. IS NOT THE FAMILY DINNER TABLE AN IMPORTANT PLACE OF COMMUNICATION AS WELL? AND THEN, IN ADDITION TO THAT? IS THAT ALL THERE IS TO FAMILY. NO. YOU ALSO HAVE SUNDAY DINNERS AT GRANDPARENTS HOUSE. OR FAMILY REUNIONS. THERE ARE DIFFERENT TIMES AND DIFFERENT LEVELS OF COMMUNICATION WITHIN OUR FAMILY, FROM VERY PERSONAL AND INTIMATE TO THESE BIG GATHERINGS IN WHICH WE SHARE WITH EVERYBODY. JUST AS WE CAN HAVE SMALL PRAYER GROUPS AND PERSONAL, PRIVATE PRAYER. AND WE ALSO COME TOGETHER FOR MASS. NONE OF THEM ARE EXCLUSIVE OF THE OTHER. YOU HAVE ALL OF THEM INCORPORATED. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? >> Voice: PERFECT. THANK YOU. >> Fr. Pacwa: GOOD. AND WE HAVE JUST A MINUTE OR SO LEFT. SIR, WHERE ARE YOU FROM? >> I'M FROM TEXAS. >> Fr. Pacwa: GREAT. ALL RIGHT. WHAT'S YOUR QUESTION? >> Voice: JUST A COMMENT. I HEARD A PRIEST SAY ONE TIME AND HE WAS MENTIONING ABOUT, ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED. AND HE SAID, SALVATION CAN COME IN A MOMENT BUT, I MEAN, LET ME SEE. HOW HE SAID THIS. BUT YOU KNOW, THE CONVERSION WILL TAKE A LIFETIME. >> Fr. Pacwa: AND IS THAT NOT LIKE, AGAIN, THINKING OF FAMILY. THERE'S A MOMENT WHERE YOU SAY, I DO. BUT LEARNING TO LIVE WITH EACH OTHER TAKES A LIFETIME. AND COUPLES, I KNOW WHO HAVE BEEN MARRIED 50 YEARS AND 60 YEARS, THEY SAY, I DON'T KNOW WHY SHE DOES THAT. I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE HE COMES UP WITH THIS STUFF. BUT I LOVE HIM. RIGHT? [LAUGHTER] AND IT'S A MYSTERY THAT YOU CAN SEE. SEE, ALL THESE MARRIED PEOPLE KNOW THAT. BUT IT TAKES THAT ONE MOMENT OF I DO. BUT THEN ON GOING LOVE. AND THIS IS THE WAY IT IS IN OUR FAITH, TOO. ALL RIGHT. ONE OF THE THINGS IS THAT WE'RE OUT OF TIME AND THAT COMES IMMEDIATELY. MAY THE LORD BLESS YOU ALL, KEEP HIS FACE TO SHINE UPON YOU ALL IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND HOLY SPIRIT. AND REMEMBER HOW MOTHER ANGELICA WAS INSPIRED TO CENTER THIS NETWORK BROUGHT TO YOU BY YOU, NOT BY COMMERCIALS. SO, PLEASE, KEEP US IN BETWEEN YOUR GAS BILL, ELECTRIC BILL, AND YOUR CABLE BILL AND WE'LL PAY OUR BILLS, TOO. THANK YOU. [APPLAUSE] ♪
