GITA WIRJAWAN: I'm so honored today
to be sitting next to Sadhguru, the yogic mystic visionary who is also
the founder of the Isha Foundation. Sadhguru, it's such an honor. SADHGURU: Namaskaram,
wonderful to have you here and you're the first man
I'm meeting with the name Gita. - Not a female unfortunately. - No, usually female names
are spelled with double "e". This is proper Gita itself. - I'll tell you a story,
my parents were big fans of India, still are, my father passed,
and they expected a baby girl. But in the 60s
they didn't have the technology. - So, out of their disappointment
they put "Gita" on you. So they prepared
the clothes and the name, but something else came up. I wanna ask you
a few questions Sadhguru. The first is relevant to how you grew up. You've referred to your great grandmother
very often as a role model. - No, not a role model. If she was my role model
you wouldn't be sitting here with me. - But tell us a little bit. - Probably there are two ways
of putting this. One thing is, even when I was
four or five years of age my thought process was just
about the same as it is today. So I don't know which is the reality: whether I did not grow up
or that I was never a child, one way or the other, except while my physical ability to
do things and whatever else life and interactions with life. As a person, what I was then,
I'm still the same person very much. The only thing is, at that time,
the burden of ignorance made me a bit serious because
I had to pay attention to everything or rather I could not
pay attention to anything without being withdrawn
from everything else. If I had to look at the leaf
everything else would disappear. If I look at a man, woman, or a child
everything else will disappear. Maybe my perception as a whole that today I can pay attention
and still be conscious of everything else, at that time if I pay attention
to something, only that was there,
everything else was gone. Even now I made like this, if I close my eyes,
that's the end of the world for me. I could sit like this till I fall dead, because deep down within me I have no need to do anything,
no need for action. Well, what's needed
we take it up and do it. That's why there's no burden, doesn't matter how much activity. There is no burden because
you don't carry it heavy on yourself. I'm still the same four or five-year-old boy, nothing changed. Maybe I laugh a little more now
than then because I found the keys to ecstasy. - You put premium on ignorance
more than knowledge. It's rather contrarian and counter-intuitive. - Well, it is not. It is just that people
twist and turn through times. See, in the western culture for example, because we are here,
I'm talking about this. The basic fable or the story
or the parable that comes is about how a man and woman fell
by eating the fruit of knowledge. See, knowledge does not mean
you know everything. Knowledge is an accumulation. The moment by accumulating
a few pieces. If you think you know
the whole universe, you're lost. If you gather a few of these leaves
and say, "I understand the universe." What to do? Right now, this is the human condition. They know tidbits of life, and with those tidbits,
they think they know everything. So always people are going back
to authority saying that the Gita says this,
the Quran says that, the Bible says this,
some of the book says that. You're going back to authority
essentially means you don't know. Why don't you admit you don't know? And this admitting is not to me
or to somebody else, but within yourself. If you know that you do not know, then your intelligence will be on
24 hours a day, awake or asleep; it's always on and probing, exploring,
or penetrating into creation. If I think I know,
immediately it will sleep. See, right now, it's light, and you can casually walk without
paying attention to anything. If you come here late night
it'll be pitch dark. If I ask you to walk here
you will become super alert. Why? Because you don't know
where is the next step. The moment you don't know, you see your alertness is
at a different level altogether. So even now you don't know;
it's just that you assume you know, while we go to universities,
we go to schools, we go to scholars,
and variety of people to make our own conclusions or to go there to confirm
our conclusions that we already have. This is not exploration;
this is not knowing; this is just knowledge collection; this is the same old tribe of hunting and
gathering part of the civilization. Very rudimentary or primitive part
of civilization, we are still there when it comes to mind, physical atmosphere maybe
we've grown but not really. They were going hunting and gathering; people are going shopping;
it's the same; it's hunting only. - Do you think the educational system
needs to be radically changed then? - Well, the educational system
that we have is like an extruder system. You put everything into the same thing and it'll come out
ready-made human beings. A human being is alive,
a unique life. And not only that, on this planet,
we have the peak of evolution. We are like the flower of evolution. You can't put flowers through
the extruder and get out some kind of shape
and say, "This is the new flower." Flower has to blossom
in full fragrance means it needs attention and cultivation. I think very very few schools
in the world can even attempt or afford to cultivate children slowly
with a necessary care. Because it's an extruder system
put everybody into it and some kind of product comes out. They know physics, chemistry,
mathematics, biology—everything. This has all been done because we have made
making a living too big a thing. Making a living has become big and
absolutely enslaving for our generation because we want to live
like somebody else. If your neighbor has a car which is
two feet longer than yours, you want to get that. If your neighbor has a bigger diamond
than yours, you want to get that. If a neighbor has a bigger house
than that, you want to get that. All depends in which
neighborhood you are living, how much you want, isn't it?
- Right. - It keeps growing like this, so we think this is development; this is the advancement
of human civilization. No, this is just raising the bar
of survival higher and higher, so that even if you're
a millionaire or a billionaire, you are still fighting for survival. This is the silliest way to live because the idea of affluence in life, either for an individual
or a society or a nation, is that we don't have
to be concerned about our survival. That's the idea. Our choices of nourishment and
choices of lifestyle are there; in short, we can live
whichever way we want, and if something significant
comes along, we can go that way. Like people here were asking me, "Sadhguru, is it true that
next time Jesus comes, he will come here in Missouri
and not in Jerusalem?" I said, "I don't know where
he's going to come, but if he comes in America and he says like he said 2,000 years ago,
"Come follow me". Even in Jerusalem only
12 people followed him. Out of those 12, one of them freaked. But in America,
if he says "Come follow me". Maybe many of you will have desire, but you have student loan, car loan,
house loan, second house loan; 45 years your life is already mortgaged. Where are you going to go? He also said, "You can't serve money
and me at the same time." He said "You're serving this process of acquiring wealth and serving me
won't happen together." What he's saying is not about
being against wealth; it is just that you understand
the wealth of life is in your experience, in the profoundness of your experience, not in things that you accumulate, because whatever you accumulate, it is only relevant to
the times in which we exist. See, if you were here 10,000 years ago,
you had a little better stick than me. "Ah, you're a big guy." Today if you carry a stick and
walk around we think you've lost it. So today, what you have is
maybe a car, maybe a home, maybe a suit,
maybe this and that. This is a consequence of time,
this is not you're doing. So what we have is only relevant
to limited time period that we are there and what we gather, either in terms of material wealth
or in terms of knowledge. We'll never enhance the life that we are; it will only enhances in
the social situation. We are misunderstanding that
the social situation is life, social situation is a thrill
that we add to our life. - There's an observation that
the current generation they tend to spend a lot less time
on what matters in the long run, they tend to spend a lot more time
on whatever it is today. - They know life is brief. - So, short-termism is that good then?
- I didn't say it's good. - You're very serious.
- I'm nervous. So, people are trying to live
like there is no tomorrow. It's fantastic if you lived like that
in full awareness. It doesn't matter
what comes tomorrow; you're fine. That's not how it is. You push yourself into an awareness
of alcohol and drugs and various other things; you don't know what's coming tomorrow;
that is a stupid way to live. Ignorance is not bliss,
as people have been propagating. See, if you jump off a cliff,
it's really wonderful. Have you ever done a free diving?
Free fall diving? - No.
- You should. It's most wonderful. - Liberating.
- Liberating, beautiful, because you don't know whether you're going up or down simply
or floating up there in the space. Only thing is if you look down, the damn planet is
coming at your great speed, that's the only problem. So it is very blissful
to live with the ground. So ignorance is always like that. For a brief amount of time,
it's fantastic. You don't know anything. It's great. But when life hits you, it hits you. - I wanna go back to what
you alluded to earlier. You mentioned Gita, the Bible, and Quran. - I've not read either of them.
- I know and I want to get to what you've referred to earlier
a few times in the context of the difference
between clarity and confidence. Tell us. - Well, I'll go back to the same example. Right now if I ask you
to walk from here to there, do you need confidence?
If you have two legs you'll walk. But if it's pitch dark, if I ask you
to walk, you need confidence. So your confidence is a bridge to cross the chasm of darkness
that you don't know. It can work sometimes. You can shout your slogan,
whatever your slogan is, and go; maybe you will cross
or maybe you will sink. Well, if it works 50% of the time, you most people think
they are successful, if they successful 50% of the time
in their life. That's why they decide everything
with a coin: heads, I do these, tails, I'll do that. See, if you're successful
only 50% of the time, there are only two professions for you; either you must become
an astrologer or a weatherman. These are the only two professions where you can be right 50% of the time
and still keep your job. In any other job, if you're 50% of
the time wrong, you're fired, isn't it? So confidence is a bridge
across things that we do not know. Clarity means you see things as they are;
you don't need a bridge. You know how to navigate nor
do you need confidence because you can see what is there.
So what is the problem? So instead of enhancing clarity,
we are building confidence with belief systems and philosophies
and ideologies. A man who thinks he is very confident
is naturally violent. No, they can't approach anything gently. People don't understand this, whether it's a football game
or a tennis game or anything that's happening,
people are in this mode. Well, right now they may
not be punching you, but there is an urge for violence. You're seeing the game itself
as a catharsis for your violence. No, there is another way to approach it
and function at your highest level because there is substantial medical
and scientific evidence to show you that your body and your brain
will work at their best only when there is a pleasantness
of experience; if you're blissful, your body and your brain
will work at their best for the success of any physical activity,
sport, music, art, business, whatever it is. How well you can harness this body
and this brain is the success, isn't it? It's the basis of success. So if you think there is
a substitute for clarity, you will move from making plans
to depending on predictions. This is the difference between
success and chance. A lot of people are successful by chance. The coin fell the right way, but they live in the fear of
losing it all the time. They're successful, they are fearful. If they are not successful,
of course, all the trouble. - Growing number of people
around the world seem to think that
the world is getting darker. Does that mean the need for more
confidence as opposed to clarity? - I don't think the world is getting darker. Maybe they looked up in the night. - With some of the things that are
not showing any signs of peace in some parts of the world. - So just look back and see,
you're from Indonesia. 100 years ago what was
happening in your country? 200 years ago what was
happening in your country? What is happening today,
which is better, tell me then how is it dark? - I was referring to other parts
of the world. - Other parts of the world also,
anywhere in the world, what was happening 100 years ago
and what is happening today, tell me which one is better.
- You're right. - Especially, I'm saying women.
Tell me which is better. For the women of the world, it's never been as good as it is today
ever before in the history of humanity, because the world was largely dependent
on man's muscle to do everything. It is now because of technology, everything that man's muscle can do,
it is being done by the machine. Now, men and women can
even talk about equality, okay? Otherwise, the talk was absurd. Nobody would even entertain the talk because man's muscle was vital
to make anything happen in this world. So people who are complaining
are any way complaining; even when they were in the caves, they were complaining
the cave is not large enough, they're not lit, there's no LED,
there's no Wi-fi—the same people. They'll continue to complain
because they don't want to see that the failure is them
not the world. As a world, as a humanity,
as a civilization, we made things really good outside
for every human being. Unfortunately, still there are
a lot of people left out of it in terms of wars and famines, but that percentage is
significantly smaller than what it was a few hundred years ago. - I agree.
- It is just that if 100 years ago or 200 years ago, let us say here or in Indonesia
100 people died you will be sitting here,
"Such a peaceful wonderful day". But today already in the morning
your son is seen in the phone blood spilling somewhere, now, you think it's happening
all over the world. So do not misunderstand
communication for creation. Creation is going well. Communication has increased
to such a point that somewhere one man dies,
his blood will spill in your sitting room and your bedroom, your dining room, also these days there is
a thing in a bathroom, also there is a television,
so blood is spilling all over your home, and you think
it's spilling all over the world. No, even if one man dies,
if you take ghastly pictures of that and put it on the television you will feel suddenly the world
has become very violent, isn't it? That's not true. Yes there are still
many problems to be solved there's no question about that, but it's way better than it ever was. - Talk about technology. I mean, rage has not gotten worse. - Hm?
- Anger. - Rage
- Rage, hatred. I think they would
have been the same as we would have seen 100 - 200 years ago. But the reach into technology
is a little bit different now because of the way innovation
has taken place in a much more exponential. So it may just take
the same amount of bad behavior as it would have 100 or 200 years ago
to be attached to some technology. - Empowered.
- Correct. How do we deal with this? - We've still not come
to a place where we can make every human being conscious
and be free from these things. But we have come with a poor substitute
which is called as the law, that you may be full of rage
but you still cannot kill me because you know
what the consequences are. We make sure you don't get away
with your actions of rage largely not everywhere, but largely
better than ever before, again. So, is law enforcement a solution? No, it is not.
It's an interim arrangement till we evolve, till we think human beings
are worthwhile focusing upon and evolving them to
greater possibilities, still we do that. Law Enforcement is a stop gap because if that is not there
we will never get there. Right now at least,
there is a semblance of peace. Maybe your heart is burning,
but you will sit here quietly. This is civilization. You understand. You're right now raging within you
as to what you want to do with me, but you will sit here peacefully, at least pretending to be peaceful,
and also try to smile. So this is the training for civilization. Civilization is not consciousness, but creating a platform
to seek something higher. We are still in that place
creating a platform. There was a time when Eastern societies created the platform
and rose to great heights. But unfortunately,
those platforms were destroyed. In many ways, they were
brought down with invasions with very aggressive belief systems. It was brought down
so we still need to build that platform and today the world being so digital is
a bit easier to build those platforms because you can build
a digital platform that people can use to raise themselves up. Raising human consciousness is
the most important thing to do, but the platforms are needed
as a part of this. I'm not a real estate person and for me, my real estate is
in the minds and hearts of people. But now suddenly, we are building
a spurt of centers around here, we're building a whole spiritual city. This is a very large piece of land and we're building a whole city here. In India, we are working towards having
nearly 100,000 people in the center. We are coming up with
another center in Bangalore, one more in Delhi,
we might do one in Europe. - Hopefully in Indonesia.
- That's what they're telling me, "You must come to Indonesia and build." You have 11,000 Islands uninhabited
- 17. Oh yeah, uninhabited. - Uninhabited. 11,000 islands,
that sounds very attractive. I want an island with a volcano. - I want to ask you about social media I'm sort of in the camp
that believes that social media has done more harm to humanity
than health or good at the rate that many of
our kids or even older than those are spending nine to ten hours a day
on their mobile phones. I wish they could spend
the same number of hours here listening to you,
if not more than 10 hours a day. I think that could be better for them. - No, they're listening to me
on the social media. - Partly, not the whole 10 hours,
unfortunately. - It doesn't matter what
they're watching here, and there's a group pops up these days. - I know. But generally,
what is your view on the role of social media on humanity? - So it's one of the greatest things
that have happened to human beings. In the sense,
right from ancient times, many great beings have come, when they spoke hardly 10 people
could hear them. Today, you can sit here
and speak to the whole world. When was this ever possible? We are the first generation
experiencing this and we are complaining about it
because we don't know how to use it. Well, this is not just about social media. Let's take the advancement of
science and offshoot of technology. What has science done to us? It is one of the most wonderful
explorations that human beings got into. But what is science done to us,
threatening the whole world. If at all, if anything destroys, it's our scientific and
technological capabilities that destroy this world, isn't it? So is science bad? Is technology bad?
Is social media bad? No. This is why I'm saying
as we get more empowered we need to focus equally on
evolution of individual human beings. We have an extruder system
in the education; everybody falls out
as a lump of something, and then you expect empowerment
to be an advantage? No. Empowerment is a terrible thing
if it's in the wrong hands. Rght now, that's what is happening. The cutting edge signs and technology
is all going into military usage. So at this rate now,
they're talking about weapons where they can just kill
only the human beings, even the cameras won't be damaged. So the best thing to do:
you drop a bomb, just the human beings die,
the buildings are in place, computers are in place,
everything is in place for you to come and invade nation
or invade a city or whatever. So why are we going into this? Because we have empowerment
in the wrong hands, unevolved hands, okay? If you give a gun to a monkey,
it'll shoot just about anything. That's what we are right now. So all empowerment
we are thinking is bad because it's in the wrong hands. So instead of improving the quality
of the one who holds this instruments
of empowerment, we are thinking
those instruments are bad, no. Social media is a fantastic thing. Science and technology are one
of the most fantastic things that have happened to humanity. But human beings are not
evolved enough to handle such powerful tools and
they are messing themselves up. It's time to evolve. If they could evolve joyfully
wonderfully, it would be great. But I think a lot of human beings
have written themselves into your space,
where they can only evolve painfully. This is an unfortunate thing,
but a lot of people have kind of dismissed themselves
into that pit. So this is why we say
"Yoga rathova boga rathova"; somehow through discipline
or through chaos, through yoga or through boga,
somehow grow. As long as you're growing,
doesn't matter if your way is painful. What can I do? I would like to see it's joyful, but if the way you will grow
only with pain, do it. How can I stop you to grow? - Is there a way to enrich
the evolutionary process so that you can avoid
or prevent those guns from being in the hands of the monkeys? - A lot of these were monkeys
now they all ... I'm sorry We have all kinds of monkeys
who have evolved because of a little bit of attention,
that's all. Other ingredients already
creation has done. We just have the little engineer so that
nothing is blocking it, that's all. What blocks human evolution? One thing easily conclusions. These conclusions we call it
as my personality, myself, my natural self; it's called. Or it's called family,
it's called society, it's called civilization,
it's called religion, it's called philosophy,
it's called ideology, you call it whatever you want
once you enshrine conclusions. This is the advantage. You will suddenly have
a newfound confidence, but you shall not evolve. That's why they said, "Man ate the fruit of knowledge
and he fell." I want to try to follow up on this. You know, in the old days until now, humanity has been searching
for salvation, and then recently
they've been looking for inclusion. Now, there's a sense that
tribalism is on the rise, meaning let me worry about
my own ZIP code, let me not worry about the next ZIP code. Is that good or bad? From salvation to inclusion
is a terrible drop because all those people whether
they're joyful or miserable, they're breathing isn't it?
- Yeah. - If you have to breathe and live or if you don't breathe you will die,
then you know this. Isn't breath and inclusion,
everything here is included you, otherwise you wouldn't be alive. What you eat to your digest,
is that not our inclusion? The world has held you as a part of itself, otherwise you won't exist here
for a moment. So inclusion is they want somebody
to tell them every two hours, "I love you, I love you." Okay? That is the psychological malaise that your whole existence
has become in such a way that somebody's emotions or
somebody's perceived intentions so these days your spouse may just
train Alexa to tell you every one hour: "Oh Gita, I love you." We can have every one hour repeating. If you want it every five minutes
we can do that also. We can program your phone
to just call you and tell you nice silly things,
sweet nothings on the phone. There's nobody at the other hand,
it doesn't matter, you just like to hear it, right? So I'm saying this sense of
wanting to be included in a club, or a small group of people,
or the local gossip group or whatever is depravity that is setting in because
we are empowered with things that we don't know how to handle. It's like if you give
a full-blown car to a child, he's going to kill somebody or himself. Not because he's evil, because he just
doesn't know what it can do. So that is the case of
human beings right now, so they are looking for inclusion
to have some sense of security. Salvation means you are not
looking for security, you're looking for dissolution
because you understand the nature of your life
essentially is constructed on the foundations of mortality. You've come with a limited amount
of time and energy, and if you are conscious of it that as you sit here
your life is ticking away. If you're conscious of it, seeking realization or salvation
or whatever you call it, or Mukti or Moksha as we call it
in the east, would be a natural process because somewhere in your mind
you have become immortal. You think you're going to be here. These five people who are sitting here
are very needed right now. Without them you can't exist. Somebody has to tell you,
"I love you," every 3 minutes. Otherwise you will feel lost because you're not looking at
your life with the right context. The context of life is this: from the day
you're born it's ticking away. So should I sit here
and worry about my death, who's talking about
worrying about anything? If you know you have
a limited lease of time and energy, you definitely organize your life
much more smartly and much more intelligently than
the way people are doing it right now; Doing all kinds of rubbish,
which doesn't mean anything to them as I was saying earlier. Well, if Jesus comes
and says "Come follow me," your banker says like this
you go there not here. So when I say Jesus, I am not
talking about a man or a religion. I am saying something that
you consider as super significant. Even if that comes, you can't
change the course of your life, means you're ruined. You're going this way thinking
"This is it!" But if you saw something
really significant you must be able to change
the course of your life. If you cannot do that
you are ruined already. You don't have to wait for the result. - Last question on technology before I proceed to the other topics. Artificial Intelligence,
are you worried about it? - Why would I be? Three pandemic time,
they went on inviting me to all this
Artificial Intelligence conferences. So I was in SPIFF (Saint-Petersburg
International Film Festival), in Saint-Petersburg.
- Right. And they all questioning me
about Artificial Intelligence. I said, "Why are you asking me
about Artificial Intelligence? I am a natural intelligent,
not artificial." Why? They are all academics. I'm sorry, I'm not saying this with any ... They were all academics. They're all saying, "If this comes up,
we will all lose our jobs." I said, "Isn't it a good thing?" Isn't it a good thing,
there are no teachers in the world? Because that's the best thing
that can happen to the world is there are no teachers. No teachers needed means what? That means human beings
are smart enough to know and learn by their own means. Isn't that the most
fantastic thing to happen? - Ignorance over knowledge;
start with nothing and learn. So I was just telling them this: I remember in 70s, the Mumbai Port
was called as Mazagon docks. I don't know if it's still called that. So at that time, the ships were
being unloaded manually by men carrying sacks. Though they were very strong
unions of these "coolies", they were called "coolies", they had their own number plates,
license number, without that you could not
enter the port. And there's lots of politics and
a small mafia working around that, and all this stuff. So when they wanted
to set up the first gantry. In the port, that is the first gantry. Big strike; all the coolies went on strike, "What are we supposed to do
with the gantry comes on?" Those days, a ship of something like
150 to less than 200,000 tons, they would take 26 to 28 days to unload. And they were happy doing it that way
because that much labor they got. When the gantry was fixed, today, the gantries that we have
even in India and Singapore, wherever else, it can unload a ship of quarter million tons
in less than 24 hours. So they at that time,
they all went on strike and fought that you can't put up this gantry,
it's going to take our livelihood away, so essentially what they were saying is this machine will make
our muscles redundant. Isn't it a good thing that happened,
I am asking. Hasn't that happened
in all levels of our life? So if you had a water carrier bringing water from the river
to your home every day, and suddenly you've got
a pipeline and a tap, he will resist because
"What about my job?" So now professors and academics
are wondering, "What about our jobs?" Because a phone can teach
physics, chemistry, mathematics, whatever you want. And it has many gigabytes
more memory than a human being
can ever have probably. So they are wondering, "How will
we continue our professions?" But I think world
should get to a place where to run the world,
the material requirements are food, needs, and infrastructure. No human being should be involved. Everything should be done
by the machines. That is when there is good room
for consciousness to rise, that we don't have daily concerns. When this happens,
those who are ignorant and arrogant— because ignorance and arrogance
are not two different things— ignorance breeds arrogance. They will go into drinking, drugging,
overeating, all this stuff, but there is a whole lot of
human intelligence which will wonder, "What is this life about?" Some will go towards suicide,
rest will go towards enlightenment. So culturing the society
for a time like that. When I say culturing the society
for a time like that, I am not talking about future,
even now. How much physical activity
you were doing 100 years ago for survival. Today how much you do, has come down to
10% or less physical, isn't it? Because of machines and technology. So how much nonsensical thinking
you're doing to understand one thing and
to do one thing? If it's done by the machine,
is it not a great benediction? So I'm all for any kind of intelligence
because this is how I see. I know some religions
go about saying that, "God is love." I don't know about that. I know human beings can be loving
if they are willing. Dogs are very loving. And then God is loving or not,
I am not an authority on that, I don't want to say anything. Somebody says, "God is compassion" Well, your job in Stanford, you got it
on your competence or compassion? I'm just asking. - I don't have the authority to answer. - I'm saying, would you like to get it
on competence or compassion? - The former.
- Yes. So, compassion is meaningful
only if you've fallen. If you're down for some reason,
physically, mentally, whichever way; if I reach out it's very valuable; suddenly my hand
may look like God's hand to you when you've fallen, isn't it? But when you're standing on
your two feet, you want acceptance,
you don't want compassion, isn't it? So, people say "God is compassion" because they are in such
a desperate state. People say "God is love", because they don't have
any love in their hearts. All these things which are human qualities
have been exported to heaven. If you say "Peace",
people say "Divine peace", if you say "Bliss",
people say "Divine bliss". No, these are all human capabilities. Miserable people on the planet
have exported it. And now to import,
you have to pay from there. So, if it's just such
a well thought out enterprise, I'll appreciate their entrepreneurship. But it's not good for humanity. So I'm saying if all things
that can be done by machines are done by machines, anything and everything,
what would the human intelligence do? Naturally, it would seek salvation. Well, a few suicides
may happen unfortunately. It should not. This is why we need to
cultivate the society, orient the society. There is a way for a human being to aspire for
something bigger than survival; something bigger than physiological
and psychological processes is available; if you don't curate the society like this, then they will go to drink, drug,
alcohol, and suicide; these things will come because
we have not cultured the society. Right now, that's what's happening in affluent societies: the youth are doing these things because nobody has cultured them
for any higher possibility. The only thing that's been done
is sell tickets to heaven. The youth don't want to go to heaven; if you say you want to go to heaven, they will ask you,
"Is there free wi-fi there?" They are not interested in the old
promises that were made about heaven; they want life here,
so that's a very good thing. It may look like short-termism,
but it's a very good thing because I feel that
one of the greatest crimes that we have done in the world is to tell people that
there is a better place than this. This is a crime against creation. There is no better place than this,
wherever you are. You may be in a desert, but still,
I am telling you, there is no better place than this for you. You must make this into
a wonderful space to live. It's very important. I have not seen the whole of Indonesia,
at least in Bali; in Bali, what we have seen is cultured;
it's cultured for Mukti. India largely was like that, but today we are trying to be
more American than American. We are trying hard. So to culture a society,
this is the work that we are doing; to culture society, it is not about
preaching religion or teaching scriptures or some ideology or belief system. It is about culturing a human being,
and if you are willing, there are possibilities beyond physical
and mental pleasures and comforts. - I want to move on to what
you've been busy with recently. You've been riding the motorbike
all over the world and you've gotten a lot of people
excited; Save Soil. Tell us. - They got excited because
they thought I'm killing myself. - But tell the world what your mission is, at least the Indonesians
and Southeast Asians, and what you've been up to. - Well, one of your stars was very much
a part of Save Soil Movement. What was her name?
- Raline Shah. Raline Shah has been participating
in Save Soil. She has been a big support and
she also came all the way to Dubai to ride with me for a short distance. But for a beautiful young woman
like that, it was too hard. - Did you comply with the speed limits? - Speed limits in Dubai are good;
160 kilometers per hour, so it's a hundred miles. It's okay. But because in some places
I was going with the security, and the security were excited, so they were driving at
240 - 245 kilometers per hour. So I was happy. So, about Save Soil: I've been talking about soil
for over 30 years now. I have spoken to regular common people, have spoken to
a lot thousands of farmers, I have spoken to bureaucrats
in various Ministries; Agriculture Ministries,
Environment Ministries; various ministers in many countries,
some of the heads of state. Everybody says, "This is fantastic"
"This is very important" "This has to be done". And that night they will use it as a pillow
to sleep upon all the Save Soil talk. So I've been watching this; we have not just been watching;
we've been manifesting it on the ground, we've been converting farmers from
aggressive chemical-based farming to very soil-friendly and economically far more
lucrative way of doing things. Most farmers who have shifted
to this form of agriculture with us— over 132,000 farmers—have shifted
to regenerative agriculture in southern India alone. Their incomes have gone up anywhere
from 300 to 800 percent. - In what sort of duration and how long? - In a matter of 7 to 8 years.
- Oh my gosh. So now we have
23 farmer producer organizations. 130,000 farmers are pretty large,
but still it's a drop in the ocean. So I saw that we can do
any number of projects, but the important thing is
the global policy has to change because microbial life is not segmented,
it's a global phenomena. Unless you make it happen
around the world, we are heading towards soil extinction. That's what we're going towards
because soil is the largest living system, not only on this planet,
but in the known universe. It is the largest living system
with trillions of life forms. You take a handful of soil, there's anywhere between
8 to 10 billion organisms, 50 to 75,000 species in a handful. So that's how rich it is, but we have been systematically
starving them to death. When I say starving them to death, here you see all this leaf has fallen,
at this time it will stay here, and in a month's time
there will be a snowfall. After snowfall, by spring, if you look here
there will not be a single leaf. It would all become soil. So here the organic content could be
anywhere over 50 to 55 percent, but the minimum organic content
that is necessary to call soilless soil, according to UN agencies,
is three percent minimum motion; three to six percent is good. But not a single nation, not even a single nation,
has an average of three percent. The highest that you find is
in northern Europe which is 1.48%, southern Europe is 1.1%, average across
African continent is 0.3%, and United States is 1.25%,
India is 0.68%. Below one percent is
considered desertification. In the last 25 years, we have lost
10% of the earth's land to deserts. - Wow!
- 10% in 25 years And that could increase significantly
in the next 10 to 15 years time because this is something I think
generally not being addressed, that is if the temperatures
go up by one degree, the wind speeds on the planet generally
should go up by a minimum of 20 to 30 kilometers per hour. If it goes by 2 degrees, it will go up 35 to 40 kilometers per hour. So if normal wind is blowing at let's say ... There are many places
where in certain seasons, including Southern India,
the pre-monsoon winds will blow out anywhere between 70 sometimes up to 100 kilometers
per hour, for a month or two months. Almost in large parts
of the world is like that. If it picks up 225,
140 kilometers per hour, then the amount of soil it'll shift
is enormous. In United States, there was something
called as a Dust Bowl in the 30s. The entire soil, or a large part of soil, millions of tons of soil from the Prairies
went and landed in New York City. They thought it landed in New York City because the building stopped
a certain amount and heaps like dooms came up
in New York City. But you could never calculate
how much of it went into the ocean. Topsoil, which takes 600 to 800 years
to create one inch of topsoil, but that is getting blown away
as these wind speeds increase; it'll get completely blown away, especially in islands like yours
without thin strips. The whole island could be in the ocean
in a matter of 50 years time if you don't ... - Or less. - I'm saying if you don't
take care of the vegetation. I hear that in Indonesia from 87%, it's come to some
42% or 43% forest cover. If you don't put back forest cover,
a lot of things may just blow away because already that is
a high wind area cyclones and stuff. One cyclone can just empty
the whole island. Right now southern Europe is
facing this already, parts of Romania are understand because the Kalahari and
the Saharan sand is flying into southern Europe. It's not only the people coming,
the sand itself has come; immigration. You can't stop it. You can stop the people by
pointing guns at them, but the sand will come. So in countries like Romania, Slovakia, even right up to Azerbaijan
through Turkey, these sands are coming. But if the wind picks up by
25 to 30 kilometers more, then overnight your town
could be covered in sand. It's possible. So there are many many things to it. I'm not here to give a doomsday picture. - I feel like I just sit in a science class. - I'm sorry.
- It's fascinating. - So, I'm not here to paint
the doomsday picture. The reason why I am into this is
because if we act now as a generation we can very easily turn this around
within the next 10 to 12 years time. For that, we need government policy, otherwise large-scale action
will not happen. And for sustained action
you need government policy. Fortunately I, the reason why
I took this motorcycling from London to Southern India:
30,000 kilometers in 100 days. I did 691 events along the way,
average nearly seven events per day. - How long of a drive on a daily basis? - 18 - 20 hours, some days 24 hours
through the night. - Oh my gosh. And how many
of you were riding? - Only me. Single motorcycles support
vehicles who are there. Our radio team was there. That's why they've captured many things and there were support teams,
media teams, and stuff. But otherwise only one motorcycling. The idea was a lone motorcycle because I've been talking about it
for over 30 years, people have been sleeping on it. I saw that unless I do something
dramatic enough people won't wake up. So once they saw, initially they thought
it's going to be fun ride, and I will ride somewhere in a city and then maybe I will fly
to the next city or something. When they saw every mile
I'm riding myself, whatever the weather;
it's raining, it's snowing, it's dust storms in Arabia, I'm still riding; then they saw oh I'm serious
about killing myself. Then all these
millions of people woke up. - Billions, I heard. - Billions have been reached.
I'm saying millions of people woke up, and they all multiplied the message. So the sleeping volunteer force
just woke up and they made sure it reaches the world because of that, now 81 nations are in
the process of framing policy for their soil, from China to Europe. America is just beginning,
India of course is already on the path, and Indonesia also
is very much in line. It is just that we want to make sure it is not a short-term enthusiasm
and then drop down. We want to make sure soil is
in conversation, but that's happened. See, last year in the month of January,
when the COP26 met in Glasgow, when the whole world came together to solve climate change
and global warming and these kind of issues or
to address these issues. There was really no mention of soil. But this one is happening. We are official observers to this event. COP27 is happening now in Egypt, so our teams are there and
they're participating, and soil has become an important part. So the conversation and
the direction has definitely changed with the Save Soil Movement. But we need to keep it up
because in democracies, today's leadership
may not be there tomorrow. - Today's election?
- Yes. - I'm saying that on the right day. So they may not be there tomorrow
unless it's in the public awareness and in the public conversation
it's an important part, only then. And like administrators can really act. It is not fair to expect
a Democratic leader, democratically elected leader, to do something that people
are not showing any concern about. People have to show that concern. So we're still still keeping the campaign up. It will rise to a certain pitch now; on 5th of December is the 'World Soil Day'. So around that we will again
have a wave of activity around the world to make everybody feel comfortable. I especially want the lawmakers
to feel comfortable that this is an important issue,
otherwise they cannot address it. People's endorsement is needed. So that's what we are trying to get: 81 nations are moving,
including European Union is right now in the consultative process. China has started the soil survey
after 40 years break. India has already invested
2.4 billion dollars towards the soil for the last year, and this year they will ... February
there's a budget let's see how it goes. Many countries have started moving
in this direction. Commonwealth Nations: 54 nations
are looking at framing policies. Every nation may not be able
to go at the same pace because of their economic
and other conditions, but it doesn't matter,
we must start the journey, we must start moving towards a solution. In 8 to 12 years, entire world, you can bring it to
a minimum of 3% quite easily, if there is a incentive-based policy. The policy is three-pronged;
one is government incentives to incentivize farmers to go for it. Second is we must may
simplify the carbon credit to be available to the farmer. Right now it is very difficult
for the farmer to get it. Third is there must be
a market recognition. When I say market recognition, today if you go to any shop or
at least any of the fancier shops, they will show an apple in your face
and say "This is organic". Then you must ask them,
"Please give me an inorganic apple." They don't have one. So organic is just a marketing jargon.
- I see - What is in it, nobody can measure. See, to take this apple
to the lab and measure how much insecticide or fertilizer
is actually present in it is a very complex process,
you cannot do that. It's a research project, okay?
- Got it. - So now, we are looking at
how to focus on the organic matter in the soil, which is easily
measurable in 10 minutes right here on the land you can measure. So now if an apple comes,
we want it definitive that this apple comes from 3%
organic content soil, this apple comes from 6% organic soil, this apple comes from 10% organic soil. We have enough science already
in our hands and data in our hands. If it's 3%; what is the amount
of micronutrients present? What is the kind of health benefit
you will have? What is the preventive health? What is the reduction of load on
health care system in a given country? What is the benefit to the state? All this data we have. If it's 6% what it is,
if it's 10% what it is. This data is not difficult. Only thing is what is 3% and
what is 6%. 6% apple may cost maybe
5% or 10% more, but instead of eating six apples
you can eat one apple and you have the same nourishment because in 1920s studies
have been made on this. In 1920s, what nourishment
you got from orange in Florida or in California, today if you have to get
the same nourishment, you have to eat eight oranges. When was the last time you ate
eight oranges for breakfast? - You know, whenever we go to
Whole Foods, my wife is big on organic. We take it for granted
if it's say organic, it's good. It 's not necessarily good.
- No. It's just become a marketing word.
- It's a gimmick. - I wouldn't say it's a gimmick,
that would be strong. I would say it's not defined.
- Okay. Would you say it's misrepresentative? - See probably,
in the larger agricultural sphere, this is one stage of development
from being totally chemical. Somebody saying something organic
that means they used a little less fertilizer, less whatever. It's one state of development,
but that is not enough. We need to come to another stage
where it is grown on rich land. That's what is important. It's just organic is not important,
it must be grown on rich land. If the fruit or vegetable has to be rich
and if this body has to be rich one thing that will happen out of this is ... See, let us say entire planet
becomes something like 6% to 8% organic content
agricultural lands, if we achieve that all human beings
naturally will consume at least 30% less food than
what they are consuming right now. So it is not only towards solving
the hunger issues in the world, the important thing is in your system. Today, you've come in a car, but when I ride the motorcycle
I always have 100 octane in it because for the same liter
of gas it produces more power. You can ride with 90 octane
or 92 but it will go like that. The same goes for this: if you eat food that is
coming from very rich soil, the volume of food that you need
will come down. What this means is
the amount of process. See, digestive process is a very
a taxing process for the body. It's very taxing. The quicker and easier
you can digest your food, and less you can digest and more energy
you can release is a huge advantage. One reason why most human beings
are sleeping 8 to 10 hours a day is simply because of
the type of food they're eating. If they ate food
which comes from rich land, less food would take care
of our requirement. This would unfold human capabilities
and human genius in ways that you cannot imagine. This is why in the yogic culture
first thing is you eat spaced out. Now, everybody is talking about ...
just 10 years ago they all said every two hours or three hours
you must eat a meal. The same people are now
talking about intermittent fasting. Well, your opinions are
changing like this, does it mean to say
human body evolved significantly in the last 10 years? We've been saying the same thing
with ten thousand years. But unfortunately, everything
has to be proven in the lab. - Somebody try to be different every time. - No, all these things have
economic possibilities. If I say an apple a day will prevent you
from going to a doctor or whatever, then you start eating apples.
If I am an apple grower, that's good. Otherwise, I'll say a strawberry a day
will do that; an egg a day will do that; it depends who you are,
what's your business. - Are you more optimistic now
than you would have been 5 years ago, 30 years ago, about
achieving whatever you mentioned in 8 to 12 years 3%, hopefully a lot
higher than 3% richness. - Will the world move
in the direction? Definitely. It's a pace that we are concerned about. So if there are no extraneous
political and military situations, I think we can achieve it. But the moment these situations come,
a certain fallback will happen. But it could also be seen
another way of military and war situations and political situations, create a certain level of insecurity. This may also happen faster in
many other parts of the world. See, right now people who are
depending for 40% of the world's wheat
comes from Russia and Ukraine. So what it means is in large parts
of the world where people are; food is not growing. Food must always grow
where people are. One exotic fruit you can bring it from
New Zealand and eat your kiwi fruit. But general diet must be growing
where people are, at least within a minimum radius. Right now your food is coming from
somewhere else from another continent. This is not the way to
structure human societies because this will lead to
enslaving societies, this will lead to all kinds
of exploitation, it may end up with a terrible famine
and mass deaths very easily. Food must grow where people are;
at least the basic food. Now, am I trying to destroy
the international food industry? No. But basic food that we need
must grow where people are. If we don't take care of that,
we're going to pay a heavy price. It can happen anytime, but in my estimates
it can happen very soon because by 2032 it is expected
3.5 billion people will be water stressed. That means daily drinking water
will be a challenge for 3.5 billion people. If, let us say, 5% or 10%
of the population in your city, wherever you live,
have not had water to drink today. Do you think you're safe on the street? Do you think your home is safe? Will it be a place to live? Do you think your women
and children are safe now? I'm saying this will dismantle
human civilizations once again. Once there are food shortages
and water shortages, this thousand years of civilization
will break up in two days time. So we must understand that sufficient food and water,
whatever else may be there or not there, clean air, pure water, and
reasonably nutritious food always must be there for every population if you want to build human civilization. If you want to build human consciousness,
this is even more important. This message I think
needs to be amplified, not only with the policy makers or
politicians but their kids. - We're always trying
to fix the children. I don't really look at life like that. I think one person who needs
minimum fixing on the planet is a child. But somehow everybody thinks
they need the maximum fixing. - No, it's so that they talk
to their parents if it doesn't get to the ears
of their parents. - Are they deaf or something else,
only the children should speak. - Sometimes parents listen
to their kids more. - No unfortunately, that is where
we are looking at it. No, that's not the way. Tell me who should be telling whom. Adults should be telling the children or
children should be telling others? How foolish and an ignorant life
you must be living if your 5 or 8-year-old child is
coming and telling you, "You're destroying the planet,
do something about it." How bad should you be? I would be ashamed
if my child told me that. I'm the one telling that.
- I know. - And I don't know,
everywhere people say, "Sadhguru, let's go to the schools.
Let's make the children ..." I said, "Leave the children alone
till they're 15 years of age." Let them grow up without
a damn concern in the world. Let them play, let them grow,
let them learn, let them do whatever. Don't burden them with
your silly problems. Problems that you created, if you have any dignity before
your children grow up, let's fix the damn thing. They shouldn't even know that
there was something wrong and we fixed it.
That's a good parent, isn't it? - Absolutely. We got to do
whatever we can do to help amplify this message.
I think it's a very powerful message. - Most needed.
If you don't do it we'll regret. - I wanna move on to a different topic. The Greeks had a term called stoicism. You have a term called yoga. Explain the difference between
stoicism and yoga. See, being stoic is keeping
a certain length of distance from what's happening around you
and acting a little peaceful. If you're being killed right now, I will keep a little distance
and stay peaceful. If that's happening to me
then how do I keep distance? If you can be stoic about
your own death and torture and whatever else that happens; fantastic. I am stoic about other people suffering. This is no good, you have just
mortigate your humanity. Yoga is not about that. The word yoga means union.
When I say union, say right now,
that is you this is me. That means: that is your body
this is my body, that is your mind, this is my mind. No way these two things are
going to be one. But suppose, if I die tomorrow
they'll bury me somewhere here. And you will die after 100 years,
suppose they bury you here. Your body and my body
will have no problem becoming the same soil, isn't it? So even now it's essentially
the same material, but in our minds
we have these silly ideas, okay? So I'm saying you're already
in union with everything; you're breathing,
you're one with atmosphere, isn't it? You're eating food from this earth,
you're one with earth, you are one with everything. But it's not there in your experience. The method of bringing that
into your experience, the method of consciously obliterating the illusory boundary
of your individuality is yoga. This is not a philosophy, this is not an attitude
that you take about others, this is coming to experience
reality as it is. When I say reality as it is, is it true that your existence
is not individualistic here? It's only your ideas, your thoughts,
and your emotions are individualistic. You can't exist here for a moment
without everything else. This is what we are talking
about Save Soil means, without those microorganisms, which is
a foundational life for your existence you cannot exist without them. Maybe you can't see them,
but without them you cannot exist. What you exhale right now
the trees are inhaling, what the trees exhale
you are inhaling. It's already one. One half of your lungs are
hanging out there, but you don't experience it. But if you did experience it, after that do I have to tell you
"Don't cut this tree" "Don't harm this prayer preserving
environment nonsense". Do you need any teachings? If you experience it
as a part of yourself you will do the best you can do, isn't it? So this is yoga; it is not an attitude; it is not a philosophy; it is not an ideology; it is just obliterating the boundaries
that we have created for survival and knowing life the way it is. We are not stoic here,
super involved but still untouched. I'm into everybody's lives but still untouched.
I'm not keeping a distance. Absolutely involved but still untouched. - It's been an amazing conversation.
I drove here. I drove all the way here
to the middle part of Tennessee. Why in Tennessee?
- Because I'm here. At that time most of
our activity was happening in northern part of the United States;
in Michigan, Illinois, Ohio. This is where our activity was. When we thought of setting up a center, I looked around, I drove around
a little bit in the country. - Motorcycle?
- No, at that time I was driving. For almost 30 years,
I never rode a motorcycle; it's only now that I'm back on. So when I saw the country
and various other things, also in this region I experienced
something; somewhere close by here. And then I started looking up about
the geography and whatever. This geography is very interesting
and as you can see it's fantastic. If you had come here two weeks ago, this land was like painted
in multiple colors, fall colors were so absolutely spectacular. So terrain wise,
it's perfect for our kind of thing. And another reason is
we wanted a large acreage of land because we are not
one of those popular pop spirituality, which pops up in a city,
catered to the city folk and whatever. Here, if you want to pursue
something seriously, that's when this is relevant to you. If you want to do
pop kind of spiritual process, there are many places. We can also offer
something digitally here, there you do something simple,
it's done. But if you were pursuing something, then you need an atmosphere, it can't be in the middle of
everything happening. So the distance from the cities
was ideal for us. We're just an hour and a half
from Nashville, a little over two hours from Atlanta, 45 to 50 minutes from Chattanooga. So it's ideally located that way,
terrain is absolutely beautiful. And from where we are,
within 12 hour drive is 60% of the US population,
that was an important factor for me because even today when
there are programs, people just drive overnight
and come here and drive through again
by evening, except for California, Seattle
and West Coast. Except that, everything else is
reasonably within 12 hour drive. From New York to all these places. So that's an important part. Plus there is a certain history
in this place, which also I wanted to fix in some way. So we are going to consecrate
this part of the land significantly so that everything changes about it. - Is there a special energy? - Not like that. This is in a way,
we are very close to the beginning of what is historically called as
the Trail of Tears. I thought there was too much pain,
it needs to ... - Let me ask you
the last question, Sadhguru. - It's sounding like a threat to me. - No. This is a student asking a teacher. What does happiness mean to you? And I guess there's a subset
to this question. Does happiness mean differently
to everybody? Is there a universal definition
of happiness? If you become pleasant in your body,
we call this health. If this becomes very pleasant
we call it pleasure. If your mind becomes pleasant,
we call it peace. If it becomes very pleasant, we can say
you're happy or joyful or something. If your emotions become pleasant
we call this love. If it becomes very pleasant,
we call it compassion. If your very life energies
become pleasant we call this bliss. If it becomes very pleasant,
we call it ecstasy. If our surroundings become pleasant,
we call this success. Only to make surroundings pleasant, we need to seek the assistance
of other people, other forces,
various skills to be gathered; all this to create
pleasantness in our surroundings. But to make this body, this mind,
this emotion, and energy pleasant, is 100% your business, isn't it? So instead of looking for
definition of happiness, let me put it this way: Do you want your experience of life
pleasant or unpleasant? - Pleasant.
- Pleasant. How pleasant? As much as possible or 50% will do? - Adequately pleasant. It doesn't
have to be as much as possible. - As much as possible?
- Yeah - That means you are thinking of
how to be ecstatic, but now you're settling for happiness because you've given up on ecstasy. Many people have given up on happiness
and they are looking for peace. Many people have given up peace
and they will only rest in peace. They are thinking, "If I live without
any trouble it's enough." Many people have given up that,
inevitably they are in trouble. If the trouble is minimal, it's good enough. I'm saying these are all things
that you set up. I'm asking you as a child, as a youth,
or even as an adult. Whatever is the most
beautiful moment of your life in terms of your experience,
not in terms of arrangements, not in terms of family, career,
this or that. Within you, what was the most
fantastic moment in your experience? That moment, whatever it was,
you are capable of that much experience. So at least, you must set it as a baseline. How joyful you were in a given moment
in your entire life, what was the highest moment,
that should be the baseline because you're capable of that. So in your life, if you do not do
what you cannot do; no problem. But if you do not do
what you can do, it's a disastrous life. This is the disaster,
the problem with most human beings even what they can do,
they are not doing. What is the most joyful,
what is the most loving, what is the most ecstatic moment
in my life? That should at least be the baseline, isn't it? Because you're capable of that. I'm not asking you to do something
that you're not capable of. What you're capable of
if you don't do somewhere, you have not even begun to appreciate
the life that you are, isn't it? See, the grasshopper the moment
his tiny little stomach is full, he is full. He's singing away,
doing everything that he wants. Your stomach is full, but no. This is a unique human problem
in Southern India, even today. Maybe there is in Indonesia also
probably in local languages. If you'll meet somebody
in the villages, even today, the only question they'll ask is
"Have you eaten?" Nobody will ask you "How do you do?"
No such thing. Because if you've eaten,
what are the problem can you have? Other problems are all self-made,
it's understood. Suppose I didn't get food to eat,
it's a situational issue, I'll have to sort it out. But my stomach is full and I'm not happy. You should look at the world,
you must look at fixing this one, isn't it? So do not set how much percentage
of pleasantness you want. Whatever is the highest level of
pleasantness you experience, that should become the baseline, and we will see if there are
bigger things possible. Otherwise, if you think this is
not a good place to live, you want to go there. Everybody who believes that
they are going to a much better place than here, why are they waiting? If they are so sure,
there is a better place up there, and everything there is
better than this place, what are you waiting for? At least you must get there before I come because I may take
the best accommodation. No, I'm saying we are trying to fill
the void of our ignorance with all kinds of beliefs so that
we feel confident living here because you have not been
conscious of your mortal nature. Once in a way when your friend dies,
you look at the funeral, "Oh my God, it could be me."
Then it terrifies you to how to cross this bridge. It doesn't matter, anyway, I'm going to
that place which is better than this place. If that place is better than this,
why are you wasting your time here? You should go. No, that's not how it works, isn't it? So I am not trying to denigrate anything. All I'm saying is human intelligence
should be used to penetrate the nature of creation and
the source of creation, not conclude from somebody else. So always we are looking for
an authority of a scripture, of a preacher, of a guru, or
somebody else who said that, or somebody who we think is God. You're looking for an authority because
you have no clue what is the truth. If you make authority the truth,
many ugly things will happen. Truth is the only authority. This is yoga; no conclusions,
just seek and develop. You can only genuinely seek
when you realize that you genuinely do not know. Then if you realize "I do not know"
and hold that awareness, seeking, longing, and the possibility
of knowing are not far away. It's right here. But we are closing the doors
upon ourselves and claiming darkness. So to change this is the goal
of conscious planet, and we are empowered like never before,
coming back to your first question. This is the first time we can sit here
and talk to the entire world. When we have such an opportunity? If we do not create the world
that we want to live in, at least start moving in that direction. We chose we don't have
enough love in our hearts for the world around us,
for the life around us. So this is the best time that way. Otherwise, how could you talk
to the whole world? Today, our average video reach annually is around 2.5 billion. Never before anything spiritual
has gone like this. I'm saying 8, 10, 12 year old children
are listening by themselves. Not forced by anybody. It's never happen.
When I was 12 years of age, nobody could make me listen
to anything spiritual. It was simply impossible. But today they are seeking and listening. So you must understand the more
confusion you see in human mind, the more seeking will happen. A confusion is way better than
stupid conclusions. Because confusion at least brings
some humility to a human being. Conclusions bring arrogance
to a human being. - Wow. I don't know what else to ask. Thank you very much, Sadhguru. That was a fascinating discussion
with Sadhguru, the founder of Isha Foundation. Thank you very much.
