Remake It! Echo Fighters

remember when smash fans hated move set clones all it took to turn that around was a new title with a more positive connotation Echo Fighters were ultimate's way of fitting even more characters into the game that wouldn't have made it otherwise throwing a bone to fans with alternate takes on existing move sets that didn't require much extra development in practice though most of the echo we got in Ultimate either had minimal differences to their Source character or were completely identical save for a few animations or attack effects I know the were pressed for time what with having to make everyone is here doable but it still feels like squandered potential so what if we could remake them to tap into that potential better working within the limitations that already exist we can give these three characters two from Ultimate one from Smash 4 more interesting designs than they currently have we'll aim for something closer to melee's clones still easy to make variants but with meaningful differences which won't be easy to do for all three but I think we can pull it off now let's get remaking we begin with someone whose Spotlight has grown as of late princess daisies always had fans of her tomboyish personality and Competitive Edge contrasting well with Peach's Royal Poise and properness but she was relegated to the spin-off cast for a long time which has changed with Super Mario Brothers Wonder finally returning her to Mainline Mario as a playable character no less which makes her smash Incarnation feel lacking being a one forone copy of Peach and everything other than visuals sells Daisy's potential short so how can we use the framework of echo fighters to make her more distinct in a way that' still be easy to make let's start with the big one a fundamental change that'll help Daisy stand out for sure you know the midair float that's been Peach's signature thing Daisy's never actually used it outside of ultimate so let's make it so she can't just like Lucina is mar without the Tipper mechanic Daisy can be Peach without the float a simpler more beginner friendly take on the move set but wait you might be thinking wouldn't that make her a worse version of peach well it would if we weren't buffing a bunch of stats to make up for it after all it makes sense for the more athletic Daisy to be better at moving around even while wearing a fancy dress with Buffs of roughly 15% to her running speed and air speed which is bigger than it sounds she's well above average now in the former and top 20 in the latter 20% faster walk speed and a 5% faster initial Dash make her grounded movement brisker overall combined with more height on her full hop and double jump these changes let Daisy move approach and Chase opponents much easier she may lack Peach's float based mixups now but who needs them these changes have a KnockOn effect to Daisy's other parameters losing access to float canceled Aerials locks her out of Peach's nastiest combos but the one she still has deal more average damage thanks to move set changes will get to shortly her much improved Mobility even opens up a few new combo routes she's also picked up much more consistent knockout power thanks to certain moves koing earlier now Daisy has more ways she can close out stocks and while her recovery is different since she can't float for horizontal distance or timing Mix-Ups her raw air speed is much better and other move set adjustments help make up the difference so about those move set adjustments Daisy's more willing than Peach to get hands on in the fight and she's less magically inclined we can tweak a few moves to reflect that in place of Peach's twoh hit magical Dash attack Daisy can simply shove opponent's forcefully for a single hit not active as long as Peach's version but thanks to higher knockback it gives you the advantage easier and Nets knockout sooner as one of the moves better at doing that now could also change her down smash which would still be the same spin maneuver but instead of a string of multiple hits it'd be a single hit with stronger knockback at the start and a weaker late hit as a consolation prize there there's another way we could diverge Daisy's move set further but it requires some callbacks Once Upon a Time Peach's move set wasn't as prim and proper in melee her up tilt was a headbutt and in melee and brawl her up air was a diagonal kick if the base code for those could be transferred over to next game without too much extra work Daisy could pick them up for herself could also bring in Peach's Pummel and throw animations from before ultimate Daisy doesn't need no stinking bodyguard to help her fight and we can make a couple more adjustments elsewhere like swapping the object swung with her non- angled forward smash from a frying pan to a baseball bat replaces a Super Mario RPG reference that only makes sense on Peach was something that further highlights Daisy's love of sports even gives it added range without losing its damage one more good finisher but what can we change about her specials Daisy bomber can stay arguably makes more sense for her to have it than Peach but we can Tinker with the others instead of a toad stepping in her neutral special has her quickly place a flower from her personal Garden in front of her before ducking and covering if the flower blocks an attack it retaliates and explodes compared to toad spores the flower deals a single hit that doesn't last as long but it's bigger and stronger it also takes a couple more frames for the counter to be active so save it for when you have a read for her up special Daisy brought back a souvenir from the flower Kingdom instead of a parasol she whips out one of the propeller flowers from her newest outing and Rises Upward at rapid speed traveling one and A2 times the istance of Peach's parasol it's a better recovery move that helps offset Daisy's lack of float even more but it only deals a single hit instead of multiple and its knockback is solid but won't kill off the top at any meaningful percent I guess Daisy's not in the multi- hits we could also adjust how her down specials Mechanics Work a stronger throwing arm than Peach makes her naturally better at using them another in character change to her stats but Daisy's veggies are slightly less likely to be the rare High damaging ones just doesn't have that magic touch can also to see an argument for changing them visually to use other veggie types from smb2 instead of just turnips but that's a change I'd also make to Peach's version if given the chance makes them easier to read midf fight and for her new Final Smash Daisy channels the smash Ball's energy and summons a Wonder flower oh boy this flower sends out a circular wave of world warping energy that affects the area immediately around her if anyone's caught in its range a cinematic kicks in as the power of Wonder whisks them away to a Grassy Mountain Valley the camera pans to Daisy as an entire herd of bull Rush materializes from thin air angry and ready to Stampede smirking confidently Daisy leaps onto the lead bll rushes back without breaking a sweat points forward and the herd obliges and tramples her helpless foes lot more interesting than just a copy of Peach's Final Smash with slightly different visuals right unlike this episode's other characters dark pit has a stronger starting point differences on two specials means he's already more than just a model swap despite that I think there's more we can do with him within the limits of a clone character and not just because he is canonically a magically created clone of pit that embodies the latter's suppressed thoughts and desires let's take Pit's more aggressive nature and desire to do things his own way and Forge an even more distinct take on the move set than he has so far is attributes are weird to talk about though because I'm actually keeping his base stats the same as the real Pit being a literal clone it makes sense for him to have the same default capabilities including power of flight now that he's reluctantly working for Veri no signs yet of this aspect changing since we haven't had a follow-up to Uprising yet so we can use it as an interesting starting point how do you make an echo fighter stand out better when you're limited to the exact same stats by changing other things that make his fighting style and strong slwe points different despite that fitting his iny yourface personality dark Pit's move set will now encourage getting up close and personal instead of using his weapon range to space attacks the numerical ratings may come off like a jack of all trades but that's because they smooth out some of the real pits quirks through sheer coincidence higher potential damage per attack if you use them right and stronger knockout power offset things pit isn't the greatest at but these changes also screw up some of dark Pit's Combos and make others harder to pull off pitu isn't as disciplined as the real Pit so this makes some sense un less technical less tactical more aggressive version of pit who still has solid Frame data and very good recovery sounds about right right full disclosure for dark Pit's move set I originally considered swapping his default weapon completely to the dark Pit's staff it have required totally overhauling several animations to work with a weapon that can't be split in two which would not only debatably move him beyond the scope of an echo fighter Patu actually uses a silver bow more often in Uprising don't worry though there are still ways for him to to stand out while none of dark Pit's attacks are being replaced they're gaining new properties because now several of them will have Roy Style Reverse tippers fitting his personality better than it does Roy himself attacks that use the blades of dark pits bow will be stronger up close and weaker at the edge of their range a few already have sweet spots and sour spots so we can lean into it harder this makes certain attacks more powerful and safer to use while changing up his combo game some still work fine while dealing more damage per hit others aren't as consistent now and a couple new ones would open up via starting them with a sour spot hit he just kind of improvises these changes would be helped Along by precise Buffs to both pits that help smooth out the more frustrating parts of their base kits and by that I mean we're making several hit boxes less weirdly scrawny easier to pull off the new reverse tippers when you're not stuck with the infamous pit boxes making for fewer how did that not hit moments while still feeling balanced details on on the moves Frame data and knockback would be adjusted to account for being easier to use and we're changing how some of dark pits specials work electroshock arm fits him into a t already and the power of flight doesn't need immediate changes but how about the others the Silver Bow shots had a niche already but we can adjust its properties to better reflect the original weapon and Uprising instead of merely firing stronger arrows that are harder to curve now dark pit knocks the bow and automatically quickfires a shot straight forward or up these shots hit even harder up close now and he can still curve them at the beginning with as much precision as the real pick can but their power falls off quickly the further they travel they can't be steered at all anymore shortly after they're fired and dark pit can't hold the charge them any longer or more specifically won't because he gets impatient for his down special isn't it weird that dark pit still uses the same Orbiter weapons despite having a different bow and arm how about we change that with a new set hey haven't I used these before covering his front and back back with the boom orbiters instead the cannon-like satellites guard against enemy attacks and block projectiles and after a brief moment or sooner if something strikes them they open fire with Point Blank explosions a more typical counter move they may not reflect projectiles like the guardian orbiters but they work better against physical attacks and can deal damage if enemies don't attack at all this lets dark pit be more aggressive with his down special whipping them out in The Fray when he thinks an opponent will try to hit back comparable to sephos Cilla the cannon fire deals more damage if the orbiters block something first with worse damage scaling than cintilla has in exchange though the orbiters protect pitu on both sides instead of just in front and he's vulnerable for slightly less time afterward and we can make one final adjustment to dark Pit's Final Smash you know how the Insight staff item hits harder if its shots connect from further away in Uprising the dark pit staff is a more extreme version of that now if you're far enough away when its laser connects it'll deal even more damage in knockback taking stocks even earlier than before but if you're within a dash and a half length or closer it'll only be a strong as a regular smash attack which sounds counterproductive but this means the best thing opponents can do to stay safe is to get up close to dark pit right in the Wheelhouse of his new reverse tippers he may be headstrong but he can think tactically sometimes once we found out ultimate was leaning harder on move set clones fans playing the e pre-demo noticed one of samus's alss from Smash 4 was conspicuously replaced the thought that Dark Samus might be one of the newly christened Echo Fighters got people excited especially when the crackpot Community Theory turned out to be right for once but then we found out dog Samus was only different in visuals in some animations and was almost completely identical otherwise considering this dark doppelganger true identity is a highly evolved Metroid mutated by corruptive fison and wearing a stolen shell of one of samus's Prior suits like an exos skeleton bit of a missed opportuni they didn't do more huh what if we could fix that working within the framework of echo Fighters how can we turn Dark Samus into more of a malevolent alien presence having identical Mobility stats to the real Samus despite having very different biology and moving around by levitating never sat right with me so let's change that to help Dark Samus stand out better some difficulty moving around precisely in this unnatural form has made her about 10% slower when quote quote walk also has a slightly slower initial Dash due to not kicking off the ground when starting one making her initial dash speed actually pretty bad but being able to just float forward has made dark samis 10% faster when quote quote running which not only puts her in the top half of the roster it's somehow given all three characters in this video close to the same run speed through complete coincidence H meanwhile dark samus's air Mobility has gotten weirder has about 7% slower base Mobility which sounds bad on paper but greater air control than the real Samus lets her weave back and forth in midair more precisely would allow for different strategies When jumping or Landing While most of dark samus's other parameters stayed the same a couple are very different now her damage output got a significant buff able to rack up percent on enemies faster than the real Samus ever could but in exchange her knockout poers taken such a hit that it's actually below average now changes to several moves have lowered their knock back at higher percents limiting which ones are viable kill moves and making her more predictable when needing to close out stocks not that she cares much crushing all opposition is nice and all but that's not as important as spreading the corruption across the Galaxy speaking of which there are two ways dark samus's move set could stand out better and one involves potentially doing nothing a lot of people have clamored for the actual Samus to get her move set overhauled next game her current one feels clunky and outd ated compared to a repertoire nowadays so what if Samus got a rework next game but Dark Samus didn't keeping the old move set would definitely ensure this character would stand out and it still wouldn't require as much work as a full newcomer in theory it even makes sense thematically since Dark Samus is copying samus's abilities as of Metroid Prime while Samus herself has evolved her fighting style since then on the other hand I'm not sure if Dark Samus would still be an echo fighter at that point so I don't know if this would actually fit the criteria but there's another way we could give this move set its own identity remember that bit about spreading the corruption how about we take each of dark samus's moves that have an energy or explosive effect on the current kit that's her down tilt forward Smash Up smash Forward Air up throw and every special other than screw attack and give them a new secondary effect that infects anyone struck by them with phason in practice it's just a poison effect with unique yet easy to program visuals with different attacks inflicting the status for different amounts of time but that alone would give Dark Samus a greater focus on damage racking since she'd have so many moves dealing extra damage over time as a trade-off though the moves that apply phas on would deal less knockback see why she has better damage output but worse kill power now so how would that affect dark samus's specials her take on the charge beam that's what I'm calling it because it's the actual name in the Metroid games charge shot is a Mega Man thing tones down the original version's sheer power and loses some hits done so fewer follow-ups but now it corrupts whoever it hits and the more it's charged the longer the poison likee phason takes effect even better at dealing a big chunk of damage but not as terrifying at taking stocks dark samus's freaky biomechanical missiles actually behave differently now while both are weaker knockback wise they also apply a phase down effect on hit and create an area of effect explosion when they impact something not unlike samus's hyper missiles in Metroid Prime 3 yet another mean means of corrupting everything further Dark Samus couldn't copy the morph ball bombs perfectly notice she never uses them in her boss fights and that's reflected here more accurately by only being able to place one bomb at a time that takes longer to detonate but when it does it deals a cluster of three phason explosions that each apply corruption and for her Final Smash unique animations for these are a fair game for Echo Fighters so let's get more literal with that pulsing with energy from fison and the smash ball Dark Samus expels that energy outward and creates two clones of herself these dark Echoes are mere extensions of her Consciousness but they can triple her Firepower the three together stand SL float in formation charge their arm cannons and fire a hyper fast barrage of Fon energy in a fan shape forward deals a ton of damage in a wide area but its knockback isn't the greatest what it does do though is apply a deeper corruption than anything else in dark samus's repertoire anyone caught by the full force of it takes additional damage over time for a full 30 seconds they'll be left so weak afterward that finishing them off is just a formality there we go three different revamps for three different Echo Fighters showcasing how to tailor them better to their individual selves without straying from the limitations of echo fighters from Daisy ditching peaches floating in magic for more speed and signature style to dark pit channeling his anger and nonsense nature more fully to Dark Samus spreading phas on corruption and damage across everything in sight all while still hopefully being simple enough to develop that they'd still be easy additions to the roster next game Far Cry from the two adjusted specials and two glorified all costumes this Trio was before right wo this was different than the usual for this series brought some unique challenges with it I had to find a way to make him more distinct without taking too many creative stretches or requiring so much extra work that they wouldn't be Echo Fighters anymore some parts still feel like a stretch though dark piss reverse tippers could use some fine tuning and having Dark Samus stay put while regular Samus gets a revamp is something I'm not sure would happen hopefully everything else felt solid enough but how would you handle this yourself I'm interested to see how you all would use the boundaries of eeko to help them stand out better or if you just want remakes of regular Fighters I've done that several times now too check it out if you're interested special thanks to these people for helping make this video happen thanks as well to my patrons for the continued support and now it's their turn to act anyone currently supporting me on patreon can vote on which of these two fighters gets a remake next someone whose appearance is brand new or someone old who still feels New Gen 4 really was 17 years ago huh so until next time guess this video itself was an echo of the main series wasn't it

Channel: Delzethin

Views: 58,504

Keywords: Super Smash Bros, Smash Bros, Smash Ultimate, Smash Bros Ultimate, Remake It, Smash Bros Kirby, Smash Ultimate Kirby, Smash Bros Echo Fighter, Smash Bros Echo Fighters, Smash Ultimate Echo Fighter, Smash Ultimate Echo Fighters, Smash Ultimate Daisy, Smash Ultimate Dark Pit, Smash Ultimate Dark Samus, Smash Ultimate Clone Characters, Smash Utimate Clones, Delzethin

Id: I23mWCITcf4

Length: 20min 0sec (1200 seconds)

Published: Sun Nov 19 2023