Relationship OR Religion? Answering A Protestant Criticism

a common criticism from Protestants is why do we place an emphasis on denominations and quote unquote religion when we need to focus only on our relationship with Christ what is your reply to this type of criticism I I'm not sure what is meant by the criticism and and maybe you you understand better and you can give some more context to it but I'll say that in in partly related to my you know my journey as a young man it I I saw things in a kind of a relig way like it was you know rules and doing this and that and and it it was coming to to see that our whole life and what the Church offers us is a most in-depth Union with Christ this is exactly what the church is it's not focused on denominations and and religion or or I don't know what was being described but but in in wisdom we have organization as well and so to be organized the the you know the apostles went out and established um local churches and and a a structure of governance so that the focus could continually be on Christ and and without distraction of of um of worldly cares in a way to limit those as much as possible because we live in the world world right even we have church buildings and what do they need maintenance fixing the roof and such things these things exist and and there's a you know they have to be addressed um all that is you know all that is set up and organized is to allow the faithful to be most attentive to Christ and to enter into that deep communion with him so is there is there more or what do you think that's coming from that's typically like a Protestant talking point it's like oh get away from religion it's all about a relationship I mean that's something that they say to like attract people you know somebody people that have bad experiences at the Catholic church or what it could be Orthodox Church they'll be like oh what you experienced was religion let me show you relationship and so it's kind of like their way of moving people in and getting away from rules and it's more so that they can live however they want to and and they justify it yeah I know I see what you mean it's funny because those who are coming out of Protestant churches to come to Orthodoxy are realizing that at some point they hit a wall they they there's nothing that can take them deeper how do you have a relationship you know and so I mean what we find in the church is that its ways and the boundaries that have been uh made clear for us Aid Us in the path of going deeper in that relationship I mean you think about a marriage like do you have to say like yeah it's not good to have uh extra marital relations you don't have to say it but for some people who might be like like you know maybe not clear on what how what loving your spouse is like might have to be told hey you know like talking with other people in this way is not uh loving to your spouse and so because of Temptations you know the the wisdom of God through his church has has made clear the those kind of the boundaries in the path and what AIDS Us in going deeper in in uh love in a relationship because I we agree and and I I I fully agree that yeah it's it is about a relationship but thing is how how do we get into that relation how do we go deeper in that relationship how has the church experienced that relationship and lived it out right and why is it that it's only in our modern day that this way of relationship has presented itself and it's being um offered as the higher way I I don't know how one can claim such a thing yeah and I think a lot of the times um Protestants use the same language as we do they'll say deny yourself pick up your cross sure and then we say well what does it look like for you to pick up your cross because what it looks like for them might be different from what it looks like for us I I had a conversation with the Protestant Pastor um when I was younger and he looked me dead in my eye and he said he said I can kill somebody right now he said and I'm still going to heaven that's what he told me he said because I'm already saved Jesus already died for his sins I'm already saved like meaning that he doesn't have to do anything for the relationship sure yeah it's already been established and therefore there's no no wrong that can be done yeah you I'll tell you something so interesting that I'm finding I'm I'm part of our we have a South Bay pastors group and um they meet once a month and I I join them as much as I can I think at the very least I I learned so much about the the mindset of of Protestants being around them but what I found is many of them are are reaching for the ancient church and the fathers but they want to do it without the church and and and we also I mean in a way believe that yeah well there's an orthodox church and and maybe it's just because of their kind I'm like the only kind of traditional Christian what would be called traditional Christian I'm there in my cassic and these guys are in shorts t-shirts whatever um wonderful guys uh very very very kind and hospitable and uh I enjoy being in the being with them um but like maybe they're just trying to be nice because I'm here and they're like oh yeah we're just kind of like all the same uh where I know some Protestants are very much like you're not the same you guys are like with the Catholics and are just like have have like really messed up but like anyways they want to try to say it but they they they're they're really going for the fathers they're going for ancient uh ways of Christianity but but want to do so without the church and and think it and and and and and believe it's just kind of fine to be where they are and and uh and have their own understanding while while picking up these little flowers from here and there to Adorn their you know their their Pursuit right and and we've seen what the results are of not adhering to an authority structure right because it just continues to splitter off somebody might disagree with you say you know what I'm going to start my own church then somebody disagrees with them they start their own church and it just keeps multiplying and now we have over 30,000 denominations so talk a little bit about how important it is for um Orthodoxy to have that structure and that Authority we can say that it gives us account ability in a way there's a joke uh an old joke that uh it's as it's like an orthodox joke it says how many Bishops does it take to change a light bulb and you know have you heard this the answer is change you know so like you know in the Orthodox church if um you know change just doesn't happen and if it does it happens very slowly to confirm that it's by Guided by the Holy Spirit and so the structure gives us an opportunity for the Holy Spirit to work itself Beyond man's ability through man when the and it's a god-given structure it's a god-given structure I mean unfortunately what we find with like for example papism is that now they can very easily slip into heresy we've the Orthodox church has had Patriarchs Bishops and Priests and lay people preach and teach heresy and um promote it within the context of the church but it's eventually fizzled out and doesn't take over the church nor affect its its truth of Faith they're they're excommunicated they're they're they're uh anathematized they're they're removed from the church but these are people from within the hierarchy of the church and so but when you have a pope for example using looking at Catholicism and the papal structure preaching a heresy there's not much there that can stop that very difficult to stop that especially when you have Concepts that that we've never really heard of of um infallibility within a human person uh people infallibility on the throne and whatnot and so this god-given structure allows for the truth of Faith to be held on to and any any sort of like possible uh Revelation to be scrutinized in a way to know if it's this if this is from the Holy Spirit or not

Channel: Roots of Orthodoxy

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Id: 3oGkUn-6kqY

Length: 9min 57sec (597 seconds)

Published: Mon May 13 2024