Real, Reworked, or Faked? Authenticating a C96 Mauser

alright guys thanks for tuning in to another video on Forgotten weapons comm I'm Ian McCallum and what I have in front of me here are a pair of wartime commercial c96 mauser x' with shoulder stocks and what we're gonna do today is take a look at how to assess these for authenticity and originality these pistols have well they're very distinctive they've developed quite a significant collector following and they bring a lot of money and so I think it's it's very relevant for someone who's interested in getting one of these to be able to get a good idea of how do I look at one and determine what am I actually looking at is this a $500 gun or is this a $5,000 gun so we're not really gonna talk about specific prices what we are going to do is look at how do we identify what is original and what has been replaced or reworked on a gun so let's dig right into it the way we're going to structure this is that I have a good example and a poor example we have a pistol here that has pretty much everything right and we have a pistol here that has a bunch of problems with it and the same for stocks we have a good stock and we have a not-so-good stock first off though I do want to mention that these are both 7.6 3 millimeter Mauser caliber pistols these are not the quote-unquote red 9 however these there are actually more of these in German military service van red nines and I think that's something a lot of people maybe don't recognize certainly these have substantially less market value than red nines and for the historically interested collector that offers a really good opportunity you don't have to buy a red nine to have an authentic World War One German military used broom-handle Mauser pistol so specifically what we have here are both wartime commercial guns or that's what they're typically called serial numbers on these run from approximately 290,000 to approximately four hundred and thirty four thousand so there's almost a hundred and fifty thousand of these guns that were made and the majority of them are in fact military proofed in fact I'll show you this little crown marking right here on the right side of the barrel extension is a German military acceptance so that's what you would look for both on the pistol and on the stock some of these were also acquired by and issued by the Austrian military in which case you would see us actually you'd see the same mark that the Austrian military put on all of its other guns which is a WN for Vienna and a two-year date stamp so either one of those if you find that on the pistol that indicates German or Austrian military use now that we have an idea for the history here we can move on to actually evaluating a couple of examples and to be clear the things that we are trying to identify are guns that have had parts replaced parts reworked or parts refinished as a a military historical collector those three things are all kind of anathema we want guns that are in their original unmodified condition how quality or condition will of course vary you can have a completely original gun that is just a pile of rust because it was left out in a field for years or you can have a completely original gun that is imperfect like new factory condition and those both have validity no one's really all that interested in a complete pile of rust but what we don't want is a gun that was in poor condition and has been artificially restored into better condition so let's start by looking at the most common wear points of the gun so a broom-handle Mauser was not issued with a leather holster this holster stock combination was in fact used as a holster so when you slide that pistol in you're going to typically wear on a couple of specific places and even when the gun is locked in the holster they generally have a little bit now this one's actually nice and tight they'll often have a little bit of rabble rattle and wobble to them that will result in wear on the gun so starting at the front we would expect to see some wear on the muzzle by the way these guns because of the bluing process that the crown here right at the face of the muzzle is always going to be in the white so right off the bat if that's blued someone has redone the barrel then we should see some wear or we would expect to see some wear on the bottom of the barrel because of the way that it slides into the hole in the bottom of the holster stock we should expect to see wear on the front of the magazine well in particular this lip at the bottom because it protrudes that's one of the main points of contact between the gun and the holster the front of the rails right here is going to become worn on both sides we should expect to see some wear here on the bolt stop because that's another protruding surface that's going to rub against the holster and then there will usually usually be somewhere on the front and back grip straps not from rubbing in the holster but just from handling so it's sort of a different style of wear but you'll often see problems with the finish there so this gun is a good example of how you should expect to see wear in these areas you can see that this is very nicely finished up here and on the toe that protrudes you've got wear on this bottom corner and then the wear extends between both the the frame here and the front of the magazine floorplate so this is an original floor plate and it's been on there the whole time so when this rubs in the holster it's rubbing on both parts these pistols were all hand fitted so you'll notice that where the floor plate fits into the bottom of the frame here is very nicely flush the surface of the floor plate is flat it's not curved down it's not dished down at the edges as it would be if someone had been polishing it so that they could refinish it this is what the floor plate fit and wear ought to look like on the c96 compare that to our not-so-good example here notice that on this guy the floor plate is one color and the toe of the frame magazine well here is a substantially different color this is indicative of a replacement floor plate obviously this way or did not happen well this floor plate was in the gun and if we look at the bottom you can see that the the fit of this floor plate is pretty poor and the reason for that is it was originally hand fitted to a different gun we can also take a close look at the back right in here notice how the edge of the floor plate is rounded down into the gun and that is because someone polished the finish off of this floor plate and then refinished it and as is easy and typical to happen they got a little bit exuberant at the edges and so you no longer have a perfectly square edge this is particularly clear when you look at both of them side by side one other element and this is this is not a definitive thing but as authentication is generally a practice of looking at a whole lot of different features and coming to a conclusion about all of them put together notice how on this original floor plate the polishing marks are at an angle kind of in this direction when people tend to polish parts aftermarket they generally just kind of naturally do it in parallel lines so the polishing on this floor plate is a raid parallel to the bore and that's not something you would typically expect to see on an original now that's not to say it can't happen on an original and if it does and there aren't any other indications of refit or refinish or fakery that's fine but this is just one more little notch on the side of this gun has had parts replaced moving further along on this line of inquiry if we go ahead and remove the floor plate we should see a serial number right in here on the floor plate and there is none and the reason for that is whoever put the refinished this floor plate and put it in the pistol polished off the serial number so that it wouldn't look like it was mismatched wartime commercial c96 --is do in fact have numbered floor plates and this is from our correct gun you'll notice it has the serial number where this one does not now some of the earlier mousers would have numbered followers as well wartime ones do not have a numbered follower so there is no need to look for a number on that component now let's move on to a different part of the gun let's look at the bolt stop this one looks really nice like that's a gorgeous fire blue on that Boult stop the problem is we've got heavy wear points on the rails here but that bolt stop is immaculate let's take a look at the other gun for a gun that has somewhere that is what we would expect to see we're on the high point of the bolt stop so someone has refinished the other bolt stop and you can see this again more clearly when we put them side-by-side notice that the flat surfaces on the front here on on the unmodified original one that is a nice perfectly planar surface with a little bit of wear on the corners the refinished one here is slightly rounded down at the edges it's not a perfect plane and that's because this was polished with something more akin to a hand tool or being handheld where when it was originally manufactured it was held in a completely steady jig with a fixed machine tool actually making the cut so that's something to look for in general on a lot of parts look for the edges to be rounded down look for surfaces to be a little bit wavy because they've been polished by hand instead of perfectly flat like they were originally done on the production floor taking a step backwards for a moment I do want to point out that of course one of the very first things you should do is look at the visually accessible serial numbers the major part which is to say the main the grip frame the internal frame here and the barrel extension these will all have the full six digit serial number of course six digits for these wartime guns earlier on there were five digits and then your small parts things like the hammer and a lot of the internal parts will have the last three digits of the serial number now serial numbers can be faked numbers can be removed and remarked so they look like they're matching we'll look at an example of that in a moment but this is just your obvious basic first step in assessing one of the guns a couple other things to look out for for one check the barrel make sure the barrel isn't bulged it doesn't happen all that commonly but it absolutely does happen it's easy enough if you're in the middle of World War one to accidentally plug the bore with some mud not realize that fire around and bulge the bore so the easiest way to determine that to find it is just run your fingers down the length of the bore and you'll be surprised how easy it is to feel a bulge in the barrel if there is one this these can actually be fixed in a couple of ways to be aware of believe it or not barrels can actually be pressed back down to remove a bore and if that's done really well you can't even tell however some people will also take a barrel off mount it on a lathe turn down the external diameter so that there is no apparent bulge refinish the barrel which is often identifiable you can tell when the barrel is a different color from the rest of the gun and then if if this has been turned down on the lathe you would still be able to see a ring in the bore on the inside so again not something that happens all the time but something to be aware of and take a look at the lanyard rings lanyard rings are something that are fairly regularly removed because people who aren't collectors who own these guns at some point may have found them to be annoying and gotten rid of them or they can get lost on their own but a real one will look like this if you look at how how closely spaced the ends of that ring are that's what it should look like that is basically someone's keyring so that's not correct that is correct be aware of the difference and check those out when we look at the extractor we should expect it to be pretty well fit note how the lobes fit into the bolt body there and the extractor as with we tub when we talked about the bolt stop the edges of the extractor should be perfectly square this one has a little bit of wear on it right there which is not unusual and it is a little bit wavy front to back and that just comes from use because this is getting forces being put on this all the time what you don't want to see is one that's wavy side to side like so this extractor is an example of one that has been messed with note how you can see the polishing lines side to side on the color is not quite right notice that the fit of these lobes at the front isn't very good that would definitely not have been the original extractor in the gun and at the edges they're rounded down just slightly again from someone polishing and then reblooming that part now you would want to take the gun apart and check the serial numbers in the condition of the internal parts and yes even if you're at a gun show or at a shop if you are going to spend a couple thousand dollars or even a single thousand dollars on a broom-handle Mauser the seller is should be expected to allow you to disassemble the gun if they don't don't buy it that that's not an out of line request especially for a gun that is this easily or this commonly messed with and this expensive now I've pulled the grips off here these grips on are not so great gun are actually just fine this is what you should expect to see both grip panels will be numbered with the last three digits of the serial number and the inside of the wood will be unfinished so we'll see this on the stocks in a moment but the outside of the wood is finished the underside is left raw and to be honest not necessarily all that nicely cut these kind of look a little crude compared to what some people would expect but that is correct one last thing I want to touch on briefly before we move onto the shoulder stocks are these markings not just here but also on the top of the the barrel these markings right here what you see is how this would have come from the factory they're not colorized they're not filled in and they can be a little difficult to see that is correct and normal a lot of people will fill them in with something like a white wax pencil like you see here because in reality this makes it look a lot better it makes it a lot easier to read and it just really looks very good however you should recognize that this is not original factory this is done for photography sake mostly do not ever put extra value on a gun because the the lettering has been filled in like this and don't don't think that it tracks from the actual historical value of the gun if the lettering is not filled in now this doesn't actually harm the gun in any way it's just wax it is easily removable should you want to but don't don't make the mistake of giving it extra value because it does make the guns look better alright so that covers our pistols now we need to take a look at the shoulder stocks we again have here a good shoulder stock and a not-so-good shoulder stock and let's actually start at the front with the locking lug when these stocks were made the lugs were hand fitted individually to each gun and so the wood may have have swelled over time but generally you should find the lug flush with the wood or slightly recessed in over time the stocks tend to kind of grow up and over the lug they don't tend to creep away from it so that is correct good fit there this one not so much it's OK in the back but notice up here at the front the wood is is pulled a bit down in a way and even more so on this side that this is a lug that has been refitted to this gun and it's actually been remembered the way that these lugs were originally polished was first the numbers were stamped in and then the front pin here was assembled in place this is for the spring catch that holds the thing on the pistol and then the lugs were polished crosswise this direction and you can actually still see those polishing marks on this love this one however you can see the polishing marks run front to back and if you look closely you'll notice that the edges of that 2-1-1 number are sitting up a bit proud this was polished first and then someone Rees tamped the serial number in it and this was done to make it a matching stock which it is not that's a faked stock that's relevant because having an original matching stock what you would call a complete matching rig adds a substantial amount to the vault to the value of the gun so it is worth people's time or they think it's worth their time to fake these to try and get that extra value and if you're going to fake the lug well you might as well put in some time and and put some work into the hinge as well so this has been reblued but it's actually pretty well blue the color on this I don't know how well it's going to show up on camera because it changes with different lighting conditions but the color there is kind of about what you would expect however if you look at the screws they all have that slightly dished appearance where someone took these screws and put them on the lathe or on a turning wheel to polish down the tops before they were refinished and the file that was used has a tendency to kind of come up on to the side of the dome of the screw and then drop down into the slot and then pick back up on the other side and what that means is that the screw slots are slightly fished out or slightly beveled on the inside correct original screws don't have that effect and this this example is a little bit more warrant you can see the finishes is in far worse condition but this is actually original and those screws have not been messed with now these wartime stocks this is the hinge pattern to look for some mousers will have loops on here for attaching to two belts or something these were all designed to be held in leather holding rigs and so they don't have any extra loops on the hinge one brief note we have a German military acceptance mark right there on the stock if your pistol has that mark your stock also should have that mark when we open up the stock there are a couple things to look for the first is just like the grips on the pistol the outside of the wood was finished the inside was not and the inside is it's left raw and again the workmanship is not as as precise and clean as I think a lot of people would expect this is correct and original and that's how it should look you might have some oil discoloration in here you might have a little bit of bleed over of the stain just down over the edge but you won't have an actual finished surface here in addition the wood was not necessarily heavily polished and if you run your fingers across original one you can still get a feel for the grain of the wood especially on this side you can see that and it is just barely tactile this stock however has been sanded it's been refinished in a number of ways but you can see the difference here this one's been sanded down and you can also feel the difference the screws have been refinished as has in fact all the hardware on this has been polished and refinished this one is fitted to a military accepted pistol but there's no acceptance mark here so it might have been a non-military stock or you know those stamps are very small that might have gotten lost in the polishing when we open it up you can see that the inner surface here has been stained and finished and that is incorrect in addition to looking for whether something has been artificially refinished of course it's also very relevant to know what the general condition is these stocks are relatively fragile and there are two particular places to look for damage one is between the screw and the button and the latch this is a place they tend to crack and you can see this one has cracked in that area and then here down the bottom of the stock that's where there's a cutout for the front sight and that's also a fragile area and if we look at this one you can see that there is a crack right there it has been repaired but it wasn't repaired all that well and there are still some blobs of glue that you can see inside needless to say an original unmodified stock will not have blobs of glue in it so wrapping this up putting this all back together this particular rig is completely original it has a little bit of wear to it you can see that the the fire you know the nice shiny blue on the stock hinge is gone there there we're points on the gun itself but this is this is honest where this is how the gun appears after a hundred years of existence and going through a world war issued to the German military yeah this is a really nice example of a 763 caliber military accepted wartime commercial c96 mauser this one however is not quite so honest this is a gun that originally had some problem it may have been missing the floor plate the floor plate may have been damaged or very heavily corroded and so someone decided to replace the floor plate they replace the extractor probably for the same reason they did actually polish on the back of the bolt I didn't mention that but if you look at something and it's all brightly polished but then there's just a pit in the middle of it well pits don't just happen like that this means that the back of this piece was corroded and it's been polished up in an effort to hide that it has then also been fitted with a stock that is not original to it may or may not have actually been a military stock the lug has been actually not just repolished and refinished but actually remembered which kind of takes an extra step above and beyond cosmetic fixes to pure out you know fakery and and fraud trying to change the number on that so this is the kind of gun that you want to be aware of and if you want to buy it that's fine especially if you want a shooter but you should be aware of its actual condition and pay for it accordingly if you only take one thing away from this video it should probably be spend a lot of time carefully investigating the stocks and the stock lugs because a matching rig will put something like a 50 percent premium on the price of one of these pistols and you want to really make make sure that you're not dumping that kind of money on a gun that isn't actually legitimately originally matching hopefully you guys enjoyed the video and I really hope that this proves valuable to those of you who are interested in especially getting started in collecting pistols like the broom-handle Mauser a lot of what you've seen today does transfer to many other styles of pistol of course the specific details will vary but the concepts of what you've seen here are more universally applicable so ultimately the best way to be able to authenticate guns like this is to have a wide experience in looking at a lot of examples and over the course of doing that you will develop a feel just kind of understanding of what's right and what's not right but until you have the opportunity to look at a bunch of guns that can be really difficult to do so like I said hopefully you enjoyed this first step in the process thank you very much for watching

Channel: Forgotten Weapons

Views: 237,275

Rating: 4.964725 out of 5

Keywords: history, development, mccollum, forgotten weapons, design, disassembly, kasarda, inrange, inrangetv, authenticate, real, fake, replica, reproduction repair, refurbish, fraudulent renumber, collectible, collector, c96, mauser, broomhandle, pistol, stock, holster, fitting, factory

Id: hnmvvlYU5uI

Length: 24min 50sec (1490 seconds)

Published: Mon Jan 20 2020

Reddit Comments

[u/Anonym00usse]

What's the cost of a Mauser copy in the US these days?