REACTING TO CATHY NEWMAN & JORDAN PETERSON: Channel 4 News Interview | The Postmodern Family EP#159

[Music] hi everyone I'm Lillian and I'm Felipe and we are the post-modern family we're Americans living in the UK living a traditional life we make three new videos a week so hit that subscribe button now in this video we're going to react to Kathy Newman interview of Jordan Peterson that men need to quote grow the hell up people who don't grow up don't find this sort of meaning in their life that sustains them they are certain response that's not a charge vengeful and arrogant deceitful and and of no use to themselves and of no use to anyone else and no partner for a woman there's nothing in it that's good masculinity what do you do about that you tell you help people understand why it's necessary important for them to grow up and adopt responsibilities why that isn't a shake your finger and get your act together sort of thing why it's more like but why it's more like a delineation of the kind of destiny that makes life worth living I've been telling young men but it's not I wasn't specifically aiming this message at young men to begin with it just kind of turned out that way and it's mostly you admit it's mostly men this thing I mean it is the premise of the question is domain primarily so it's hard to tell how much of it is because YouTube you you what I've been telling young men is that there's an actual reason why they need to grow up which is that they have something to offer you know that that that people have within them this capacity to set the world straight and that's necessary to manifest in the world and that also doing so is where question men are here words of encouragement some some of them never in their entire lives as far as I can tell that's what they tell me and the fact that the words that I've been I've had such an indication that young men are starving for this sort of message just like why in the world would they have to derive it from a lecture on YouTube now they're not being taught that they that it's important to develop yourself does it bother you that your audience is predominantly not as a horrible thing it's no more divisive than the fact that YouTube is primarily male and tumblers for every way like the email tumblr is primarily female but you just saying that's the way it is well it's I'm not saying she's like it's just my lectures and coming to my talks my books it's just the majority of them happen to be now is she expecting like every facet of why it could be 50/50 partner but no people female thing or do you want someone to contend with that's going to help you and the other guy on women have some sort of beauty to sort of help fix the crisis masculinity what depends on what they want no I mean it's exactly exactly how I laid it out like women want deeply want men who are competent and powerful and and I don't mean power I know she's thinking that they can exert tyrannical control over others that's not power that's just corruption power is competence and why in the world would you not want a competent partner well I know why actually you can't dominate a confident partner so if you want oh my you should dominate oh no I'd say women could he say that so what you're saying is that women want to dominate relationships with men impaired and who are afraid of such relationships we'll settle for a weak partner because they can dominate them but it's a suboptimal so here's I think there's a substantial minority of women who do that and I think it's very bad for them they're very unhappy it's very bad for their partners relationships those women I mean you're making these vast generalizations right so you think you're saying you've done your research and women are actually opening to men I didn't say they were unhappy don't maybe man I said it was a bad long term solution okay you said it was making Israel yes yes it depends on the time frame I mean there can be was intense pleasure in momentary domination that's why people do it all the time but its nose formula for a long-term successful long-term relationship that's reciprocal like any long-term relationship is reciprocal virtually by definition so let me put a quote to you from the big universities Wolff rightly hostile towards men these are the areas of study dominated by the postmodern stroke neo-marxist claim that Western culture in particular is an oppressive structure created by white men to dominate and exclude women minorities - okay I want to put you that here in the UK for example let's say that is an example the gender pay gap stands at just over 9% you've got women at the BBC recently saying that the broadcaster is illegally paying them less than men to do the same job you've got only seven women running the top footsie 100 companies huh so it seems to a lot of women that they still being dominated and excluded to quote your words back to you he does seem that way but multivariate analysis of the pay gap indicate that it doesn't exist that's a gap between median hourly earnings in men and women models yeah but there's multiple reasons for that one of them is gender but it's not the only reason look if you're a social scientist worth your salt you never do a univariate analysis she doesn't say no to the top because that's what's skewing that gender pay gap isn't it Isis he's no I'm not saying it doesn't matter I just think there are mindful reasons for it why I'm saying that the claim that the wage gap between men and women is only due to sex is wrong and it is wrong there's no doubt about that the multivariate analysis have been done very I'm saying that 9% pay gap yes yes that's a gap between men and women she was is a quiet exist but it exists now it seems pretty unfair you have to say why these disks hmm but do you agree that it's unfair if you're a woman not necessary on average you're getting paid 9 percent less than a man that's not fair is it it depends on why it's happening I can give you an example ok there's a personality trait known as agreeableness agreeable people are compassionate and polite and agreeable people get paid less and less agreeable people through the same job women are more agreeable than men again advanced generalizations that's true but that's right in some women get paid more than men you were saying that my large women are too agreeable to get the pay rises no I'm saying that that's one component just to a conclusion that she thinks will strike one of which is gender and the reason prejudice there's no doubt about the agenda she wants to make it seem more she agrees that very great hey guys the gemwrap hey guys is due to gender occasion Bravo denying the pay gap exists which is what you did at the beginning of this conversation shouldn't you say to women rather than being agreeable and not asking parents for a pay rise go and ask for a pay raise make yourself disagreeable with your book oh definitely there's that but I don't at night existed I've denied it because of gender okay because I'm very very very careful with my words so the pay gap exists your accept that but you're saying I mean the pay gap between men and women exists you're saying it's not because of gender it's because women are and they've done so oh they do it all the time you can it's so one of the things that you do as a clinical psychologist is assertiveness training so you might say often you treat people for anxiety you treat them for depression I wonder if she's listening to it maybe the next practice we put together that involve continual pushing competing for higher wages and often tripled their wages to finish out your period okay of course do you do you agree that you would be happy if that pay gap was eliminated completely because that's all the radical feminists say it would depend on how it was eradicated and how the how how the disappearance of it was measured of men that's a problem oh there's all sorts of things that in keeping up the cost of it could even be at the cost of women's own interests so because they might not be happy if they could equal pay no because it might interfere with other things that are causing the pay gap that women are choosing tonight having children well or choosing careers that actually happen to be paid less it's women do a lot of but why shouldn't women have the rights to choose not to have children or the right I'm saying that that no I'm not saying that I'm right and I actually haven't said that so far you think it makes them miserable no I said you're saying miserable was having part was having weak particles that makes them miserable but I would say that many women around my machine as 2830 to have a career family crisis that they have to deal with women have to get the major pieces of their life put together faster than men which is also partly why men aren't under so much pressure to grow up so because for the typical woman she has to have her career family in order pretty much by the time she's 35 because otherwise the options start to run out and so that puts a tremendous amount of stress on women especially at the end of their 20s I mean I take issue with the idea of the typical woman okay so you know all women are different okay you say women become more vulnerable when they have children no it's you talk to one of your youtube interviews about crazy harpy sisters so is gender equality is that something that's just never gonna happen we're getting the same opportunities they do in Western civilization they do barely okay we could get to a point where people were treated fairly or more fairly I mean people are treated pretty thoroughly in Western culture already we can look they're really not though are they I mean otherwise why would there only be seven women running footsie 100 companies in the UK why why would there still be a pay gap 7 women running the top footsie 100 companies in the UK well first it might be why would you want to do that why would a minute not want to do it men although not that many who are perfectly willing to sacrifice virtually all of their life to the pursuit of a high-end career so they'll work these are men that are very intelligent they're usually very very conscientious they're very driven for very high-end very healthy so what you're saying is that women are one thing to get to the talk so you think women are just more sensible they don't want that cuz it's not a nice I'm saying that's part of it definitely and so I worry you you don't think there are barriers in their way to prevent them getting to the top there's some barriers yeah like other like men for example I mean to get to the top of any organization is an incredibly competitive enterprise and the men that you're competing with are simply not going to roll over and say please take the position women are the same and they won't be the same that doesn't mean they can't be treated fairly is gender equality desirable if we use equality of vote he keeps saying what is gender equality she keeps asking questions about gender equality because equality of outcome is undesirable well men and women won't sort themselves into the same categories if you leave them alone to do it off their own accord I've already seen that in Scandinavia it's 20 to 1 female nurses to mail something like that it might not be quite that extreme and approximately the same male engineers to female engineers that's a consequence of the free choice of men and women in the societies that have gone farther than any other societies to make gender equality in erotical big difference I don't know the in that circumstance men and women have segregated themselves so you're saying give people equality of opportunity that's fine not only fine it's eminently desirable right everyone freedom did you know still women aren't gonna make it that's why she pens on your measurement techniques they're doing just fine in medicine in fact there are far more female physicians than there are male physicians they're awesome lots of disciplines that are absolutely dominated by women many many disciplines and they're doing great so could we put something else to you from the book you say the introduction of the equal pay for equal work argument immediately complicates even salary comparison beyond practicality simple reason who decides what work is equal it's not possible so the simple question is do you believe in equal pay well I will just say I'm pairing you basically saying women need to just accept they're never gonna make it on equal terms equal outcomes that's what I said I didn't see the toggles in their way in their way but you talk about man quality position I notice in your book you talk about real conversations between men containing quote an underlying threat of physicality oh there's no doubt about that what about real conversations between women is that something all a we soar to amitabh all unreasonable no it's just that the domain of physical conflict is sort of off limits for you successful women I'm not very agreeable your career well successful women like hmm basically have to wear the trousers in your view they have to sort of become men to succeed is what you say well the fights that serious man certainly masculine traits are going to be helped I mean one of the things I do in my counseling practice for example and I'm consulting with women who are trying to be best at careers is to teach them how to negotiate them and to be able to say no and to not be easily pushed around and to be formidable and you need to if you're gonna be successful you mean he's smart conscientious and tough well here's a radical idea why don't the bosses adopt some male bosses shall we say I got some female trait because she wants a call about them I would say partly because it's not so easy to determine what constitutes the same job enormous because arguably yeah there are still men dominating our industries or society it's not true so for example well I can give you an example very quickly so I work with women who worked in high-powered law firms in Canada of competent and put together as anybody you would ever meet and we were trying to figure out how to further their careers and there is a huge law firms use these masculine criteria then the market is dominated by men women they make 80% of the consumer decisions that's not the case people who stay at home looking after children by and large they are still women so they're going out doing the shopping but that is change we men are gonna be doing the shopping you're a lawyer don't get more for the same sort of goods that's been proven that men what does she mean that Melinda's full helmet is gonna cost less than a pink one anyway we'll come on to that partly cuz men are less agreeable put up with it I want to ask you is it not desirable to have some of those female traits you're talking about I'd say that's a generalization but you've used the words female traits is it not desirable to have some of them at the top of business I mean maybe they wouldn't they don't predict they don't predict success [Music] [Applause] don't say that intelligence there is some debate about the flatness of the distribution which is something that James d'amour pointed out for example in his memo but there's no difference at all in general cognitive ability there's no difference to speak of in conscientiousness women are a bit more orderly than men and men are a little bit more industrious than women average is why are they not desirable at the top of feminine traits why are they not desirable it's hard to say I'm just laying out the empirical evidence like we don't know the truth except but we also know because companies by and large have not been dominated by women over the centuries we've nothing to compare it to it's an experiment true and it could be the case that if companies modified their behavior and became more feminine than they would be successful but there's no evidence for it I'm not neither doubtful nor non doubtful there's no evidence why don't give it a go as the radically evidence suggests well it's fine like if someone wants to start a company and make it more feminine and compassionate let's say and caring and its overall and agreeable towards its workers and towards the marketplace and that's a perfectly reasonable experiment to run my point is that there is no evidence that those traits predict success in the workplace and there's less evidence to try well that's not that's not really the case women have been in the workplace for what at least ever since I've been around the representation women in the workplace has been about 50% so we've run the experiment for a fairly reasonable period of time but not you know certainly not for centuries let me move on to another debate that's been very controversial this is you got in trouble for refusing to call trans men and women by their preferred personal pronouns she misleading is actually true I got in trouble because I said I would not follow the compelled speech dictates of the federal provincial government I actually never got in trouble for not calling anyone anything wouldn't follow the change of law which was does not once that was lost criminal no well they said it was designed to do okay you cited freedom of speech in that why should your right to freedom of speech Trump a trans person's right not to be offended right now you have to think you have to risk being offensive I mean look at the conversation we're having right now oh you know like you're certainly willing to risk offending me in the pursuit of truth why should you have the right to do that it's being rather uncomfortable you get my point it's like you're you're doing what you should do which is digging a bit to see what the hell's going on that is what you should do but you're exercising your freedom of speech to certainly risk offending me and that's fine I think more power to as far as I'm concerned so you haven't sat there and I'm just right I've just trying to work that out I mean yeah yeah I've got me I'm trying to my head yeah she's not upset really come into the studio and agreed to be questioned hmm a trans person in your class has come to your class thinks that they want to be called that's never happened and I would call them shoes so you would so you've kind of changed your chinos no no I said that right from the beginning what I said at the beginning was that I was not going to cede the linguistic territory to radical leftists regardless of whether or not it was put in law that's what I said even then the people who came after me said oh you must be transphobic and you mistreat a student in your class it's like I never mistreated a student in my class I'm not transphobic and that isn't what I said well except you've also called trans campaigners authoritarian how many I mean isn't that only in the broader context of my claim that radical leftist ideologue czar authoritarian which they all say someone who's trying to work out their gender identity you may well have struggled with that you're comparing them with you know chairman mao to chairman mao you know i could finish a all cost a finisher i mean you know this is grossly offensive and i didn't compare them to finish it well under Mao millions of people die writing there's no comparison now and a trans activist is there why not because trans activist aren't killing millions of people the velocity that's guiding their utterances is the same philosophy the consequences uh yet you're saying that trans activists know it leads to the deaths of millions of people well no I'm saying that the philosophy that drives their utterances is the same philosophy that already has driven us to the deaths of millions okay tell us how that philosophy sure that's no problem the first thing is is that the philosophy presumes that group identity is paramount that's the fundamental philosophy that drove the Soviet Union and Mao is China and it's the fundamental philosophy of the left-wing activists its identity politics does not work in terms of your group identity you just say murders so to provoke on you I mean this does not right that you hate to be compared to tell us about the lobster haha well that's quite a segue well the first chapter I have in my book is called stand up straight with your shoulders back and it's an injunction to be combative not least to further your career let's say but also to adopt so he's talking to bull stands and ready engagement with the world and to reflect that in your posture and the reason that I read about lobsters is because there's this idea that hierarchical truckers are a sociological construct of the Western patriarchy and that is so untrue that it's almost unbelievable and I use the lobster as an example because the lobster we we divulged from lobsters in evolutionary history about three hundred and fifty million years ago common ancestor and lobsters exist in hierarchies and have a nervous system attuned to the hierarchy and that nervous system runs on serotonin just like our nervous systems - and the nervous system of the lobster and the human being is so similar that antidepressants work on lobsters and it's part of my attempt to demonstrate that the idea of hierarchy has absolutely nothing to do with socio-cultural construction which it doesn't you just go straight you're saying that we should organize I'm saying that it's inevitable that there will be continuity in the way that animals and human beings organize organize their structures on the tracks your status and the higher your status the better your emotions are regulated so as your serotonin levels increase you feel more positive emotion and less negative emotion so you'll think like the lobsters we're hardwired as men and women to do certain things to sort of run along tram lines there's nothing we can do about it because there's lots of things that you can do although you can't break the rules of the chess game and continue to play chess biological you're your biological nature is somewhat like that is it sets the rules of the game but within those rules who have a lot of leeway but the idea that but one thing we can say that organizations patriarchy it's like that's patently absurd it's wrong it's not a matter of opinion it's seriously wrong oh you just whipping people up into a state of anger and divisions between men and women you hurting people critics of you online get absolutely lambasted by your followers sorry your critics lambasted by you not at all if an academic is gonna come to me and tell me that I'm not qualified in that I'm not I don't know what I'm talking about now quit the abuse quit the anger well we need some substantial examples of the abuse and the anger before I cannot do an association for well let's take a more general perspective on that so I've had 25,000 letters since June something like that from people who told me that I brought them back from the brink of destruction and so I'm perfectly willing to put that up against the rather vague accusations that my followers are making the lives of people that I've targeted miserable Jordan Peterson thank you my pleasure nice talking lying or telling the truth but he enjoyed himself I'm sure he did because it was battle and if he is an example of someone who has intelligence conscientiousness and disagreeableness then he's gonna enjoy the battle yeah I think you really did enjoy that anyone I mean I mean I think any fair assessment would would make him come out as a winner because she tried to paint him and very negative with negative brushes and he just kind of sidestepped all of them because that's not what he was saying yeah I feel bad for her though because isn't it true that after this happened she was being attacked she claims she claims that she got some threats and had to get security or something yeah I don't know what came with that whether that was true or not but yeah it's just I think she some people were saying that because she knew she lost at the bay the only possible route she had out of that interview is to be a victim basically in some way and so that like he targeted her somehow or that who knows but that she came out a victim out of that and he was an aggressor and that would then discredit the whole debate and and everything except Ino because she's there being just as disagreeable as he was I think more disagreeable yeah they were really going head to head and so if she did in fact after they the interview decide to go the victim route that just doesn't make any sense cuz that well no one who saw a female card out yeah yeah no one who saw the interview would believe that she was a victim yeah but people who didn't see the interview and just have a caricature impression of Jordan Peterson would believe that she was with that's crazy and so it's just the choir will be will continue singing the same song on both sides and anyone who's on the fence and saw the interview I think would be able to see through that yeah I think unfortunately I think Kathy Newman is that Kathy Newman has just taken in those key words that the leftists have are pushing the ideologues yeah about you know the fact for her that the fact is that there's a patriarchy that men dominate and then women have been victims all this time and yes the victimhood paradigm yeah which is the exactly as he's saying it's the postmodern view of the world which is the world is made up of victimizers and victims that's right so that even within women is are there also other groups inside the the group of women are there other interior groups that also have I think so because you could say that they're the women who probably would want to line up with the patriarchy and those who are fighting the patriarchy no I mean like black women why oh yeah so this is one of the things this is one of the things that is used quite effectively to discredit post-modernism is that how do you define the groups because you can't because as soon as you start trying to put boundaries you realize that people cross those boundaries so is it black same-sex attracted hiv-positive women as one group you have to get like very very narrow and specific and it just becomes uh so what were the groups in in Mouser commence it was the pros the working man is it with any soviet-style communism it was the lower-class working man which are the victim the victim of the upper class and therefore they must overthrow correct violently overthrow the upper class and so they believed they had they had every right because they were victim correct thank you so much for watching this video interview by Kathy Newman of Jordan Peterson leave a comment below we'd love to read your comments about this video and what you thought by goodbye [Music]

Channel: The Postmodern Family

Views: 766,164

Keywords: cathy newman jordan peterson, cathy newman, jordan peterson, kathy newman, 12 rules for life, hierarchy, feminist, patriarchy, english journalist, cathy newman owned, so you're saying, liberal agenda, political correctness, mgtow, mgtow uk, postmodernism, traditional family, americans living in uk, us versus uk, postmodern family, felipe and lillian, expats, american expats, christian vloggers, family vlog, family vloggers, jordan peterson destroys, gender pay gap, reacting to

Id: me1KlGOkVxA

Length: 34min 15sec (2055 seconds)

Published: Wed Jun 27 2018