(cheerful music) This is the Craig Groeschel Leadership Podcast. Hey, welcome to the Craig Groeschel Leadership Podcast where we are deeply passionate about building leaders 20 minutes at a time, and I'm so excited to bring to you a bonus episode today. I've got a very dear friend of my family and a world-class leader, Lysa TerKeurst. Lysa is the first two-time interview in the history of the Craig Groeschel Leadership Podcast. If you don't know her you should. She's a New York Times bestselling author of more than 20 books that have sold more than six million copies. "Uninvited" is one, "The Best Yes" is another. "It's Not Supposed To Be This Way" is an incredible book. Then her new book is out now, it's called "Forgiving What You Can't Forget," incredibly powerful book with a personal story that will impact you in a massive way. She's the president of a world-class organization, Proverbs 31, that's reaching millions and millions of people around the world. You can find Lysa and her team on social media and through their podcast. She is a brilliant speaker, speaks at events all over the world, and we recently spoke together at the Global Leadership Summit. She teaches, writes, and is the best on communication anywhere in the world through COMPEL. Lysa, you're really, really busy. Well, thank you. Never too busy for you. It's such an honor to be here. I learned so much from you and your podcast and your sermons, so this is a real treat for me, so thank you, Craig, I appreciate it. Well, your family is, it seems like every time I look up, somebody's getting engaged or married. Yes, well, when you have as many kids as I do, you know this, something is always happening. I say if you miss a day in the life of the TerKeursts, you miss a whole year. So yes, my youngest daughter is engaged. She's getting married in May of next year, so we're really excited. Well, I love watchin' your family grow and you're in a, you know, in obviously a really fun season of life, and I wanna talk to you about the theme in your new book. You talk all about forgiveness, and you have such a personal story of forgiveness in your marriage that any type of relationship would be blessed to hear about it, but what's really interesting and fascinating to me, Lysa, is you talk about how forgiveness can really make a difference in leadership, and specifically in organizations, and at the Global Leadership Summit, you talked about something that was fascinating. You explained that forgiveness is a key to innovation. Honestly, in all my years of teaching leadership and studying leadership, I've never really thought about forgiveness as associated with innovation or business. Can you just kind of unpack some ideas on how does forgiveness fit in the workplace? Yeah, that's great, and actually Forbes Magazine came out with an interesting article and it called "Forgiveness As A Business Tool," which I found really fascinating, but think about it Craig. Never before in the history of our businesses and organizations has innovation been needed as much as it is right now. Innovation isn't just optional now. It is absolutely necessary. But if we want to attract people who have innovative spirits, then that means we're gonna attract people with ideas that are a little bit risky. Innovation has some risks that it demands, and so in order for people to bring those ideas, they've gotta feel safe enough that if they put down an idea and we try it and it doesn't work, that it won't be seen as that person is gonna be sent away from the idea table, we tried one of their ideas, it didn't work, and so now either their job is at risk, their position's at risk, or their future's at risk, and if people feel at risk, they will not feel safe enough to bring their best ideas to the table. So we've gotta develop a culture where we want to train people to become responsible risk takers. We don't want irresponsible risk takers, but we want people who come to the table and bring their best ideas, bring their innovative spirit, but in order to do that, they have to feel safe. So what do we do to have an environment like this? At Proverbs 31, we have certain family values, and one of those values is that getting off the blank page is worthy work. So even if your idea is not great when we first try it, we see that it may lead us to the very best idea that we've ever had, and both components, getting off the blank page and the idea that we land on, both of those are needed and necessary. So if you wanna be an innovative leader, you've got to show people that you have the ability to walk in forgiveness, that you're not gonna shut people down or shove them away or slam them publicly if they don't bring a winning idea right out of the gate. We've gotta encourage people to be innovative, and to do that, they've gotta feel safe. That's incredibly powerful, and so often in cultures, people don't feel safe, so they hold back. And I liked what you said, Lysa. We're not, it's not like we're going to just continually forgive or tolerate sloppiness or irresponsible behavior or bad morals or values. Those will be held accountable. But if someone is trying to innovate, trying new ideas, then we're gonna have grace. In fact, one thing we did in our culture is I had a team member that just played it way too safe and was just totally afraid, and so I gave this team member an assignment by the next quarter that she had to make three aggressive mistakes, and it was a game changer for her, because that was an assignment that if you're gonna make any kind of mistake, you're gonna make an aggressive one, not a passive one, and what it was doing, I think, my theory was, is creating an environment of safety where she felt like she could fail, and so if she could fail, that gave her permission to try. I wanna ask you another question that I think could be helpful. You said that your team deserves to know that instead of holding a grudge, the leader will hold a space for grace, and I love this. Can you tell us here, what kind of work environment does it create when team members know that they can make a mistake, and if they do make a mistake, they will be forgiven? Yeah, so what we wanna do with our team members is allow a space for responsible mistakes. So it's not excusing irresponsibility, but it's modeling the fact that the leader is acutely aware and very honest about the fact that they need grace when they make mistakes, and so what we say at Proverbs 31, again, another one of our values is we recognize we desperately need grace so we freely give grace. But our team also understands that this grace or this, you know, this whole space for having the ability to make a mistake is done with responsibility. So again, we're not excusing irresponsibility, but we are encouraging best innovative strategies, and when you bring innovation, innovation means it's new, and when something's new, it means there's a chance it won't work, but you've gotta have team members that can measure strategically the risk factor, and they're willing to take a responsible risk on behalf of your team. Yeah, that's so powerful. I love the way, you know, you talk about that, because sometimes if we just said, hey, you need to really forgive, and you could start, someone else called it sanctioning incompetent behavior, and that's not what you're talking about at all. If someone is, you know, is consistently irresponsible, or if you have a team member that lacks, continually lacks integrity, you do hold those wrong behaviors accountable, and there would be consequences. But so often I think we see someone who's really trying to get it right and might try an innovative idea that doesn't work, and then if that, if a boss or a leader doesn't forgive that, before long, no one is gonna try anything new because it can be looked down upon, and failure seems unacceptable in so many cultures. I wanna talk about how we can break through that. For example, there's, Lysa, there's an organization I love and respect, and for years they were big innovators, and over time they became kind of big and successful, and I heard 'em say, I mean, directly to me that, you know, when you become our size, you just can't fail. What happened is they stopped innovating and started leading with fear. If we're a part of a culture that really doesn't have any tolerance for failure, if there is an aggressive, well-meaning mistake and there's no forgiveness, what can we as a team member do to model forgiveness and change that culture? Well, I think showing forgiveness in our personal life, you know, bitterness leaks like acid, and so if we've got bitterness in our life, it's gonna leak out, and people are all the time picking up on clues of what is really behind the heart and the mind and the intention of a leader, so it starts in our personal life. And, you know, it's very easy to pick up on whether someone is a forgiving person or not, because the statements that we make, the simmering resentments that sneak out, and when that's true in their personal life, people pick up on those clues in our business life, and they will say, ooh, he has very little ability to grace, I mean for grace, and I think you've probably secretly kind of logged people like, ooh, that's a forgiving person, or, ooh, that is not a forgiving person, and I think we kind of know this instinctually. So I would say, remember, people who work for you, they are humans. They're not productive robots, right? They're humans, and so because they're humans, when a human lets hurt sit inside their heart unattended too long, it turns into versions of hate. So when a leader has been hurt, and all leaders get hurt, it's so important to deal with that hurt both in our personal life and our professional life so we can keep our heart swept clean, and it's only when you have a heart swept clean that you are able to fire on all cylinders with great creativity and great productivity and your best gut instincts can come out. And one other thing I'll say Craig, too, that I think is really important, someone asked me yesterday, well, is it possible to train gut instinct into your people? And I knew the reason they were asking this was because they expected me to say, no, you either have it, or you don't, but I don't agree with that. Actually, I think you can train instinct, because what you're saying when a leader has great instinct is that they're able to make gut reactions or gut decisions in an instant, but what you have to remember is there's probably 10 millisecond decisions that fired off quickly inside that leader's head that led them to that one second gut instinct, and so while you may not be able to train that gut instinct immediately, if you train your team with those 10 millisecond decisions leading up to that gut instinct, I think you can train instinct, but it has to be in an environment where people are not afraid that if they get it wrong the first time, the second time, the third time, that they're gonna suffer such severe consequences that they start holding back, and they really in essence give nothing of themselves. They just become a yes man, and they just regurgitate what they already have seen the leader emulate, and so they just duplicate what he's already done. And I don't want that as a leader. I want people who bring amazing ideas because I'm limited in the number of ideas that I can bring. So I need my team coming beside me and feeling safe enough to help me shape my ideas and bring their own ideas. Lysa, that is so powerful, and, you know, I hope there's some leaders that hear this because so often, there's so many organizations where once people have trained, they've been trained to be afraid, they just, they show up and do the least, the least risky thing, and you, you know, you cannot play it safe and lead a great organization, and I think about this. I was, you know, I grew up playing sports, and baseball in particular, and I just remember anytime I was afraid at the plate, it was almost never a good outcome, and I used to, whenever my dad would show up, I'd get so afraid to let him down, and so I just couldn't, I couldn't perform at my highest level. It took me a while to realize he was never disappointed in me if I didn't do well, and was only proud of me that when the pressure was off, then I started to play better, and yeah, I think so many of our teams would be better if we could just say, hey, we're, you know, we are for you, we believe in you, and if you, my dad would, the only time he'd get mad is if I took a third strike, he's like, "If you're gonna strike out, strike out swinging," and I think it'd be great to get that across to our team members. Can you tell us Lysa, you know, one of the most common questions that people write in and ask us about is some version of how to lead up, how do I influence those above me? Let's say that I'm a team member, and so I'm a mid level leader, and we're just not allowed to fail. If we do, there is no forgiveness. What suggestion would you have to me to help lead up and to try to create a, maybe a suggestion, or change the culture to say, would you find grace and help give me the chance to try something new even if it doesn't work well? Well, Craig, let me ask you this question. Have you ever seen one of those news stories, and I think we've all seen it, that it's almost like the whole world stops and pays attention when somebody has experienced something really horrific or really hard, and all of a sudden you get to see a glimpse on national TV of that person standing in a courtroom and saying, "I forgive you." What they're not saying is, "What you've done is right." They're not saying that what you've done hasn't affected me, but that moment of forgiveness, it stops all, and everybody remembers it. In a world where we see fists slamming fists and hearts hating hearts, and everybody walking around so epically offended, when someone starts to model forgiveness in big ways and small ways, it is arresting to people, and they notice it, and they're captivated by it, and they're propelled to ask, why do you have that kind of attitude? What is it inside of you that you're able to give off that amazing space for grace for people and actually forgive? So I think this is one of those opportunities for someone in the middle who wants to change a culture. It starts with you. And I always say the very best time to forgive is before we're ever offended. The next best time is now. But just imagine how powerful it could change a culture, a culture of fear, a culture of anxiety, a culture of very little grace, imagine how beautiful it would be if I walk in and I'm not the top leader, but as a team member, if I have prayed that morning and I have sent my forgiveness ahead, then when someone at the office messes up, or when someone says something that offends me or hurts me, instead of acting and reacting so typically, which is to be so epically offended, right, but imagine it's like, oh no, actually in my prayer time this morning, I already sent my forgiveness ahead, so just because you laid down this offense, I'm not gonna pick it up, I'm not gonna carry it with me, because I have learned a valuable lesson. Just because I feel offended doesn't mean I have to live offended. Now, if you wanna go check yourself, you know, and check what you just said to me, that's great. But for me and my heart, I have kept it swept clean, and I'm not about to accept an offense right now. So you are forgiven, and just walk on from there. And I think it's an atmosphere that one person can bring into a situation, and Craig, you know, I cannot say that I've done this perfectly, but I can say that when people hear my personal story, they feel so safe with me that they come and share things with me. Other leaders share things with me that they've never shared with other people. And it's not so much because they know that I'll forgive them. It's because they've watched me forgive someone that they know has hurt me deeply when I walked through the brokenness of my marriage, and when they watched me forgive my husband, not irresponsibly, not without having to work on the trust in our relationship, and it didn't mean immediate reconciliation, but what it did mean is that I became a safe person that somebody could actually open up to and be vulnerable with, and I think that can change an entire culture, but it starts with us. Well, I think it's, what you're saying is so true because you know, Amy and I were relatively close to you in the middle of kind of the challenges that you endured in your marriage, and just to see the restoration and to see how you all would, you and Art have a better marriage today, I think than you did before, and it took courageous, selfless forgiveness, and that does make you a safe place, and I think that so often it's easy in the, kind of the corporate world or in any type of organization to de-humanize people, and when you do come with a sense of grace, it creates a deeper bond, an emotional bond around the mission that you can really care about the people that you're with, and I found too Lysa, I don't know if you agree, I don't have to like everyone a lot to still really care about them. Meaning there's some people that I get on their nerves, they get on my nerves. You know, I don't wanna go out to dinner with them, but I can still love them and care about them. In sports you don't have to like your teammates sometime, but you have a mission together and so there's respect, and I think in, organizationally, it can be a breakthrough if we genuinely have grace for people. And I've kind of got a question. What do you say if someone did hurt you and they don't maybe know it. Do tell them, "Hey, you know, I forgive you," or do you just keep going? I'm asking because people do that to me a lot. What are your thoughts? Well, I think it depends on the level of relationship, you know. So I had a situation recently where someone hurt me and I was kind of wrestling through the same thing, and I don't think there's a cookie cutter answer, but I had to determine in my heart, can I work through this without a conversation with them, and if I can, and I can get on the other side where I'm not holding onto a grudge, or not holding onto those simmering resentments, and it's not tainting my perspective, you know, see, a lot of times like somebody does something to us, and so we start telling ourselves a story in our head about that person, and so it's like we've never addressed it with them, but they come walking up to us and we go, well, you know, they're always prideful, or, well, you know, they're just in it for themselves, or well, you know, they're all about the money. So if I start to hear scripts like that, where I am already making unfair judgments with somebody, I know I've gotta work on it. But I think you've really gotta determine inside your heart, do I need to work on it with that person, or do it, or can I work this out on my own? Here's what I'll say. If you are having the need for forgiveness, you don't have to have that conversation with other people. You can, and if it's appropriate, have that conversation. But if you're like, it's really not possible for me to have that intimate of a conversation with someone, then you can have moments of forgiveness without them, because what forgiveness really is, it's not so much giving that as a gift to the other person, what it really is is making the determination that you've suffered long enough because of the hurt that's been caused for you, and you are unhitching your ability to heal from the choices of that other person. Because if that other person doesn't think that they're wrong, if they don't, if they've never said that they feel bad for what they've done, if they don't even, if they're not willing to say they're sorry, or they think you're the problem, then you're never gonna get that epically satisfying moment of them saying, "I was wrong. "I need to learn all the lessons that you have to teach me. "I need to suffer as bad as you've hurt," you know. We, most of the time we don't get those satisfying moments like that, right? So we have to unhitch our ability to heal from the other person's choices and severe the source of suffering through the power of forgiveness. Forgiveness is really me saying, I've suffered long enough, and I'm trading all this drama for an upgrade, and I am going to say, I'm gonna acknowledge my pain fully, and then I'm gonna say, I'm choosing to forgive this other person for this fact of how they've hurt me, and whatever my feelings will not yet allow for, the blood of Jesus can surely cover it. And, you know, I add that last little part because sometimes hurt feelings are the last thing that wants to sign on to holy instructions, but forgiveness is not about my determination, like, I'm gonna be so spiritually mature. It's really about my cooperation with God. God's forgiveness flows to me so I let it then flow through me, and that's really the cooperation of forgiveness, and that's what we can do with other people. So if the conversation's appropriate, absolutely have it, but if it's just gonna cause more drama or more hurt, or the other person doesn't even realize that you were sensitive in that area, and so they said something that they didn't realize, then you can forgive them, and then later went without all the emotion and without all the drama, you can have some simple conversations of boundaries with them, and you can just help educate them. "Hey, this is not okay with me," but I suggest work through the forgiveness process first so you don't add so much unnecessary emotion into the eventual conversation. You know, I love so many levels of what you're talking about, Lysa, and you know, we're approaching this mostly from an organizational standpoint, but I think that, I can only imagine so many listeners right now applying this outside the workplace as well, and in marriages or friendships, and what you're saying is so, so powerful. I do, I kinda want to highlight what you said. I think that there are times, like, let's say, Lysa, let's say you hurt my feelings and you have no idea whatsoever, and it was accidental, not intentional, and I carry a grudge for a couple months, and then eventually I forgive you. If I come to you and say, "Let me tell you what you did and I forgive you," to me that's kind of a selfish thing for me to do, and I think that happens a lot, or maybe I'm just, you know, recognize it 'cause I have total strangers who come up and forgive me for things that I didn't even know who they were, you know, and I think in the workplace as well, that if we can, I like what you said earlier, if we can work to even not be offended and just stay above it, we can really create a great organization, and as I look back, it's special to me, Lysa, I've got three other leaders who've been with me for over 20 years, over two decades, and I think about, the only reason why we're still here today is because we love the ministry, and we've worked through a lot of hard stuff. I think sometimes, you know, if you look at it from that angle, the difference between a great organization with a team that's really learned how to perform at the highest level together, and those that don't, it could be the inability to forgive, and so I love that you've written your book that'll help so many marriages and friendships and family members, but also, from a leadership perspective, it can make a big difference. I wanna shift gears and first of all, I have the deepest respect for you as a leader. You've built from, you and assistant, how many staff members do you have in your organization now? 70. Yeah, so that's just, I mean, think about that. You know, 70 team members essentially distributing world-class content, and now you're helping others publish books and so many things more. I'll tell you the reason I hesitate to ask you this question, and so I'm gonna give it a little preface, is I'm gonna ask you about being a female leader, and the reason I hesitate because Lysa, in our culture, we don't like to distinguish between a male and a female leader. We like to say we just hired and released the best, and they might happen to be male, they might happen to be female, but that's not a defining factor. But in some cultures, there are those who are still kind of behind the curve on empowering women in leadership. I'd love for you to share with our listeners on what are maybe some challenges that you've faced on being a woman in leadership, and what are some things that you've done to strengthen your leadership and cross boundaries that others may have wrongly put in place for you? Well, I think one thing is I don't ever want to be invited to have a seat at the table because I'm female, you know, and I even encourage my other female leaders, and especially the younger generation of females that are coming up, I always say, you don't want to demand a seat at the table because you're female. What you wanna do is bring enough value into the organization or into the situation, you wanna bring so much value that they need you at that table, and that value is speaking for itself, and so it kind of becomes irrelevant if you're male or female when an organization needs a certain value set and you're the one that brings it. Then I just say, bring the value and let your, you know, let your invitations rise and fall on the skillset that you have, the passion that you bring, the innovative spirit that you are bringing in, also your creativity and your brilliance and your kindness. And so I say all of that because I think it's really important. At the same time, I think there are some really unique qualities that a female brings to any organization, and I think some of the healthiest organizations are where they're not threatened by a woman and her ability to have certain female discernment that I think is a unique quality, and that doesn't mean that we're right all the time, mostly (laughs), but it does mean that if you're, think about it, Craig, in your organization, so you're a pastor and you've got, you know, half of your congregation, maybe even more than half of your congregation is female. So it benefits you to have females in a place of decision-making where they can share different discernments based on, you know, what a female may think of something, or the phraseology of a certain campaign, and I just think it's really smart. You know, we want well balanced approaches to reach all the people that we wanna reach, and if we're also trying to reach females it just makes sense. Of course it does, and I hope others will see that, too. It's, you're, you know, you're incredibly limited if you don't have in all types of diversity. I want age diversity as well, I want, you know, I want someone 19 in the room, and I want someone who's got some miles on their life in the room, some years as well, and racial diversity, and, you know, and you have done just that. The value of the content you bring is so great that people will fight to get it into their organizations, and I want to talk a little bit about that. You came and trained our organization on some ways to effectively communicate. I'd love to ask you about three different categories and have you give us just some communication tips. We'll talk about email communication, public speaking, and the just interpersonal. Let's start with email. What suggestion would you have to help us be more effective texting or emailing? Well, I think one thing is remember the human factor and add a little personality into it. Not every email has to be ho-hum boring, you know. You can add some personality without being appropriate, I mean without being inappropriate. You know, you wanna be appropriate in your email communication, but also make sure right away that the person who's receiving the email, that they know exactly what it is that you're requesting. I can't tell you how many emails and texts I get that it's like, I can't answer this right away, and if I don't answer it right away, I'm probably never going to answer it, but the main reason I don't is because I can't figure out what is it that you really want. So I think you've gotta be clear, I think you've gotta be concise, but you also can be a little creative, and that's okay. Gotcha. Public speaking? What's a big tip? You're a world-class public speaker, what advice would you have for us to get back? This is intimidating Craig to say this to you, right? 'Cause I think you're one of the best public speakers I've ever heard. Thank you. I can answer this for you, what you do is, here's what you should say, Lysa, is you should say, be raw, be real, bring your whole you, and that's one of my favorite things about your speaking is that you just, you're incredibly transparent, you're incredibly raw, and that's how you should answer that question I think. Okay, so I would say You wanna add anything to it
yes. or you wanna disagree? Yes, I agree, I agree. I love that answer, and I would also say remember, it's not whole messages that change people's lives. It's sentences within messages that grab people, that if they are relatable and memorable sentences, and people can preach it back to themselves, that's a message that changes a person's life. So let me pick out three that you said in this interview. You'll have to help me with them, but forgiveness doesn't just, we let forgiveness flow to us, so forgiveness flows through us. Yes. Very good. So forgiveness is not about our determination. It's about our cooperation with what God has already done, God's forgiveness flows to us and we must let it flow through us. Right, and then you said, oh gosh, I had it in my head earlier, but you talked about, I wish I was taking notes, but you said about probably seven different statements that are the types that you go back and you write 'em down, you let 'em simmer, and you've said that before that, you know, whole talks don't change life, and that's so true. Sentences do. So you may remember a story, there may be one sentence that, what was the one you said, Lysa, about you can, you don't have to feel, what was the one about feeling? Yeah, so you can feel offended, but you don't have to be offended. You don't have to be offended. That's sticking.
Just because someone lays down an offense, it doesn't mean you have to pick it up, carry it with you, and make it part of who you are and how you act and react. So this is the assignment for somebody listening today, somebody's going to offend you, snub you, overlook you at work or whatever, and just because you feel offended, you don't have to be offended. So there's your assignment. And then interpersonal communication, one tip, and then we're gonna move to the lightning round, and I'm gonna work you really hard with lots of random questions. Perfect. Interpersonal communication. What's a, what's one good tip for us, Lysa? So I would say with our own personal communication, that when you talk, use words that move people. Remember, they're a combination of emotions, feelings. Don't just try to always educate people, care about people. So tend to their mind and their emotions, and you'll be a more effective connector with other people. So one of the things I always get from you in any kind of leadership conversation is just the, how much people matter, and I think that's one reason why you've got an incredible team of 70 leaders is because you care about them, not just for what they produce, but for who they are, and I just wanna tell you, thank you for modeling that, and thank you for your transparency in the book "Forgiving What You Can't Forget," telling your own personal journey of healing. It's as raw as it can get and as powerful as well, so thank you for that. You're welcome. Are you ready to have a little bit of fun in the lightning round? I hope so, I'm nervous. It'll be easy. So let me ask you a few questions. First thing that comes to mind, you can stall and whatever, and just have some fun with it. So question number one, favorite TV show you watched as a kid, what was the big one? Oh, "Little House on the Prairie." Oh, come on, "Little House on the Prairie." What is your most commonly used emoji in text conversations? Oh, a heart. Biggest change you've made in your leadership in the past year, so anything that comes to mind? The biggest change I've made in my leadership I would say developing the 12 I's Of Strategy so that my team knows how to think strategically, 'cause I can't be the only one at my organization to do that. So does that mean there's 12 different things that start with the letter I? Yes. That had to take some work to come up with. So you got to send me your 12 I's, you've gotta email those to me afterwards. Yes, I will send you my 12 Is. Are we allowed to link to those in the show notes Sure.
or are they confidential? Yeah absolutely. All right, so if you want Lysa TerKeurst's 12 I's, you can subscribe and get, and ask for the emails and we'll send that to you. So this one is one that most people wouldn't understand, but at the Global Leadership Summit this year, you spoke to tens of thousands of people, ultimately hundreds of thousand people around the world, and there was no one in the audience at all, it was all virtual, it was just you and a camera. On a scale of one to 10, how nervous were you before the lights went on? I was an eight before the lights came on, but then I settled down to about a four after the lights were on. So that's a good tip for anyone who's ever speaking. The first 30 seconds or so is usually the most difficult, and then you can settle down pretty quickly, and you did outstanding by the way. Thank you. What's your ideal environment for concentrating and creating? When you're writing a book, where do you like to go? Wherever I'm at, I want my creative friends to come in and put up a mood board full of the best colors and inspirational sayings, and it's gotta be really, really pretty, and so it's just a bunch of pieces of paper that they use fun tape that they put up on the wall, but it sets an environment for me, and I am deeply affected by my environment. So that's a, that's something for me. I've never had a pretty mood boards to helped me be creative, so. You should try it, Craig.
I will work on that. Don't knock it 'til you try it. Remember that female discernment thing. So I'll tell you, I take the 12 I's and my pretty mood board and see what I can do with it. Biggest leadership pet peeve, what drives you crazy? Selfishness and pride. Come on. Two more questions. 20 years ago, I had no idea that this would be so difficult. 20 years ago, I had no idea it would be so difficult to get hard letters sent to me or ugly emails sent to me where I'm misunderstood. That's really hard. It never gets easier, does it? It never gets easier. For those who are in leadership, dealing with unjust criticism is a part of it, it's always a part of it. It's not fair, and it's always difficult. Dealing with helpful criticism is a gift to us. That's right. But unfortunately, the more influence you have, the more of the difficult side comes your way, and I know you pay a big price so the rest of us can be blessed by your work. And here's how you can know if someone really intends to be helpful or hurtful. If it's anonymous, chances are it's gonna be hurtful. If it, if they put their name on it, they intend to be helpful, and I appreciate those emails where people attach their name and they're intending to be helpful. I appreciate those. It's the anonymous hurtful ones that, they just need to go in file number nine, you know. Yup, it's a part of it, not a fun part. On a more positive note, 20 years ago, I had no idea this would be so much fun. What are you lovin' now? I love working with my team. I never knew that I could have an organization mostly made up of all women. I think we have like six dudes now, which is pretty incredible, but I never knew that whole team of women could get along so well, have so much fun, and it is one of the most huge blessings of my life is just this incredible team of people that I have. I love it. I never knew a team could be so fun. Well, I, your team is fun, and I'm cheering for my six dudes to hang in there with all of the ladies. That's gonna be a, be a fun environment, and. They have mood boards you see. They have mood boards in their offices and it makes a huge difference. There are six dudes with beautiful mood boards and that's what makes them thrive in the Proverbs 31 environment. I'm sending you a mood board, Craig. I'm excited about it. I can't wait, I can't wait. Is there anything I didn't ask you about that's a burning on your heart? No, I think we covered it. I think this is really good. Well, I wanna say a big thanks, thank you to you, Lysa. You're, the new book is out now. It's called "Forgiving What You Can't Forget." For those of you that are new with us, we do release a new on the first Thursday of each month, and then occasionally we drop in a bonus episode like this one. If it's helpful to you, if you could write a review or rate it wherever you consume the content, that would mean so much to me. I love seeing your posts on social media. Tag Lysa TerKeurst, tag me. If we see it, we'll often repost it, and if you'd like the leadership guide, and if you want the 12 I's Lysa talked about, go to life.church/leadershippodcast, click on the link and we'll send you the show notes and all the details. And if this is helpful to you, it means so much to us when you tell your friends, invite your coworkers, hit subscribe wherever you consume the content. Next up in December is something I believe will be really helpful to you. We're gonna look back at some content from 2020. It's been a crazy year. Lysa, I've never been more excited about a new year coming, and that's kind of superstitious. I don't know what's gonna change, but it's something about the clock changing and the calendar moving to 2021 sounds really good to me. We're cheering you on and wish you the best on the release of your new book. Thank you Craig. Thanks Lysa. (upbeat music)
