Well, today's guest on the Craig Groeschel Leadership Podcast says that everything you know about time management is wrong. If you're like so many leaders that I know, and you feel overwhelmed with too much to do, today's episode is for you. (upbeat music) Well, welcome to another episode of Craig Groeschel Leadership Podcast, where we're really, really passionate about helping you build your leadership about 20 minutes at a time. Unless it's a bonus episode or an interview, and sometimes they're longer. If you're new with us, we drop a new episode on the first Thursday of every month. And I wanna say just a big thank you to those of you in our leadership community, shouting out on social media. Any time we see you inviting others, we may repost your content. And also, I would just encourage you to follow or subscribe to wherever you consume the content. We also have a leader guide that's available for you. And if you'd like that, we'll send it to you with the release of every episode. Just go to www.life.church/leadershippodcast, and tell us you'd like the Leader Guide. We'll be happy to send that to you. Let me introduce to you today's guest. Rory Vaden is a good friend of mine, and he's brilliant in so many ways that surprise so many people. He's got a lot of thoughts that are different than what you might think as a leader. He's the author of "Procrastinating on Purpose" and The New York Times Bestselling Author of "Take the Stairs" Rory is the co-founder of the Brand Builders Group, and they help organizations refine their brand and their reputation. Rory has this viral Ted Talk with more than four million views. And he speaks around the world at leadership events, like the Global Leadership Summit. I'll go ahead and welcome now Rory Vaden. Rory, I did a podcast. I'm kind of afraid to listen to it again, on time management because you're kind of an expert on time management. And one of the things that you say is that, everything you know about time management is wrong. So that kind of scares me 'cause I've said a lot about it. Help us understand, where are we wrong, and how should we change our thinking about time management? So, here's what happened for me. I was at one of my old business partner's houses on a Saturday morning, and we were going off to a work meeting. And his little baby daughter named Haven, heard us trying to sneak out of the house. And she runs down the hallway and she leaps, and she latches onto his leg and she says, "Daddy, where are we going?" And he says, "oh, I'm sorry, baby Haven, daddy actually has to go to work today." And her little eyes welled up with tears, and she says, "no, daddy, please, no work today. Please, no more work." And in that moment, there were a couple of things that I realized. The first, is that I'm not ready for children quite just yet. That's a few years ago, So I do have two boys now. I got a three and a half year old and a 15 month old, which I'm loving, but the big insight that like hit me in that moment, was that everything I had ever learned about time management was all about tips and tricks, calendars and checklists, tools, technology and apps, in other words, it was all logical. And I realized that actually today time management isn't just logical. It's emotional. And it is our feelings of guilt and fear and worry, and our desire to feel successful and valued and important. Those things end up dictating what we do with our time, even though they're subconscious. They end up driving, how we use our time, as much as what's in our inbox, or on our to-do list. But nobody is talking about the emotional side of time management, which, you know becomes really difficult for leaders who have a lot of people buying for their attention. You know, I totally agree with you because I have taught, I've studied a lot about time management, and kind of consider myself at least one who's really focused on it in my own life. And when you tell that story, it Rory, interestingly enough, my mind shoots back to when my oldest daughter was three years old or so, and I was working way, way, way too much. Almost the same thing happened. I was going to work and she asked me something. I said, daddy has to go to work, I'll be home later. And she said, "daddy, this isn't your home, you live at the office." And it was, yeah, exactly, it was so emotional for me. And that was the kind of the wake up call, when I actually decided to get help for my tendency to be a workaholic. And so, you know, when you talk about that, I do, I think you're exactly right. So many of us, you know, we do want the tips and tricks and the hacks and there is a whole nother side to it, which is emotional. I wanna dig into that, in kind of with a follow-up question. I talked about, I think it was in episode 79, about what I call the four tiers of effectiveness, in kind of your leadership. And I used the contrasting ideas of what's important versus what's urgent to help us prioritize our time, which is not original to me. But you take it a step further in your writing and teaching, and you say there's another element, that can help us manage our time better. And you talk about significance. I think many of us know, generally what significance means but can you talk about it from the standpoint of time management and talk about how significance, what it is and how it helps us to be better managers and stewards of our time? Yeah, so, you know, Dr. Covey was, I think the one who originally introduced to the the urgency and importance and we refer to that as error two thinking because, you know, that was a real big breakthrough. He taught us how to prioritize our time. He taught us that not all tasks are created equal. And so urgency is how soon does something matter. Importance is how much does something matter. But significance, is something that we noticed, that there's a new type of thinker that has emerged. Someone that we call a multiplier and that they're not just managing time. They have learned how to multiply time. They have literally learned how to create more time, which I know will sound impossible or it will sound like an exaggeration or it will sound like, you know, hyperbole. But the way you multiply time, is by understanding the significance calculation, which is not how soon does this matter or how much does this matter, but how long is this going to matter? And the significance calculation changes everything, because it breaks us free from the paradigm of only thinking about today and instead thinking about tomorrow, and the next day and the next day. And that changes everything 'cause what most leaders do, is they wake up and they say, what's the most important thing I can do today? That's not a bad question, but that's not how multipliers think. What multipliers do, is they instead say, what are the things I can do today that will make the biggest impact on tomorrow, and the next day and the next day? And that subtle distinction changes everything, because this is how it becomes possible to literally multiply time. Now, there's nothing that we can do to create more time inside of one given day. And that's why it's kind of hard for people to wrap their mind around it. Like we all have the same 24 hours, which is 1,440 minutes or 86,400 seconds in one day. But, the way you multiply time, is giving yourself the emotional permission to spend time on things today that create more time tomorrow. And that is a significance calculation. There are certain things that I can do right now, that actually will cost me often, they will cost me time today, but by doing those things, they will create more time tomorrow, and the next day and the next day and the next day. And that is the shift that it's kind of like, what got you here as a performer won't get you there as a leader. And so there's a series, there's these five permissions that we talk about, these five ways to multiply time. They each have a corresponding emotional permission that comes with them. That every leader has to embrace as a vehicle, that they are each a vehicle or a modality for doing something today that creates more time in the future. Okay, so I'm fascinated by that. And I'm even thinking about my day to day, and I'm trying to ask myself, we're recording this, it is a quarter of three in the afternoon and I've quite a bit today, but I'm trying to think of anything I did today that's gonna create time tomorrow. And I think I'm failing your litmus test. So could you give us a, what's an example of something you do, Rory, maybe today, or maybe it was yesterday, what's a very practical example of something that you've done that's created time for the future? Yeah, well, let me give you a very mundane example, because I think there's power in how most people would consider this kind of minutia, but let's say setting up online Bill Pay. As a real practical example. If you had two hours open in your day today, and I said, you know, what would you spend those two hours doing? Most of us would never say something like online Bill Pay. If we had two hours open, which we never do, but if we did, we would not go, oh, online Bill Pay is a significant use of my time. But, if you were to take two hours to go and set up online Bill Pay, and that were to save you 30 minutes every month from paying your ordinary bills that are just kind of like recurring. Then after four months time, you would have broken even on that investment of time. So it had been saving you 30 minutes a month for four months. And then every month thereafter, you would be multiplying time. You would be getting what we call ROTI, return on time invested. So, I never have two hours extra in my day to set up online Bill Pay. But, it's just like investing money. I also, most people never have extra money laying around. You create extra money by sacrificing the vacation, by not buying the car, or the house, or the TV. And then instead of spending that money, I'm going to invest that money, and that money will grow because of compounding interest. Well, it's the same thing with time. I have to deliberately choose to give up something today, which is where the title of the book comes from, "Procrastinate on Purpose" I'm gonna deliberately say, I'm going to sacrifice something in the short term, so that I can reinvest into the things that are significant. And so, automate is one of the five permissions, because, one of the things that we realize, is that automation is to your time exactly what compounding interest is to your money. Automation is to your time, what compounding interest is to your money. So setting up systems, I mean, you know, for leaders, anything I create a process for today, saves me time tomorrow. 'Cause now the process is doing it. Any development of people, effectively becomes delegation. Anytime I train someone today, then tomorrow that person is doing the thing. In the short term, absent the significance calculation, Every leader says, it's faster for me to do it myself, which is true, absent the significance calculation. It's always faster inside of the paradigm of one day, for me to do it myself. But when I make the significance calculation, I realized that if instead I take the time to train someone else and create a process for it, then every day thereafter, that person will be doing it instead of me, you know, we actually have a calculation that we use for this, that we call the 30X rule. So the 30X rule suggests, that you should consider spending up to 30 times the amount of time it takes you to do a task once on training someone else to do that task for you. So, basically Craig, let's say you have a task that takes you five minutes a day. 30X rule would say, you should consider spending 150 minutes, 30 times five, 30 X five, 150. 150 minutes training someone else to do that task for you. Now here's where I lose a lot of leaders, because they go, Rory, that doesn't make any sense. Why would I spend 150 minutes, which is basically, it's two and a half hours, training someone to do a task I could just do myself in five. It never makes sense to trade 150 minutes for five. But if you look at it through the lens of significance, you go, well, if it's five minutes every day on this task, that means over the course of a working year, there's 250 working days in a year. I'm actually gonna spend 1,250 minutes on this task over the course of a year. So, while it never makes sense to trade five minutes of a day, to save 150, for 150 minutes, it does make sense to spend 150 minutes so that I can gain 1,250 minutes over the course of a year. What has happened here, is the task hasn't changed. The staff hasn't changed, the leader hasn't changed. It's the same people, the same circumstances. The only thing that has changed is the leaders thinking. The leader's thinking has elongated. It has, they have gained more. They have had a longer term perspective. And you know, that is the truth. The next level of results always requires the next level of thinking. So, in fact, exactly what you said, is kind of where I was going and I was thinking. If we're coaching somebody that's always overwhelmed. It seems like we tend to start with the do, let me do less. Let me try to do it faster. Let me find some hacks, but you're gonna say, we really need to change the way we think. And I love the way you kind of obsess about numbers and you kind of almost nerd out, which is, I like to do that as well. And you just talked about one year, what you could save in a year. But over, you know, over a 10 year period then it's 10X, you know, that type of return. And then the other thing that I found, Rory, and I'm sure you would agree this is true. Is if I spend 30 times, what it would take me to do, developing someone else. The quality of what they do in the early term might be slightly less than my quality. But when specialize in it over time, they generally exceed the quality of which I was able to do. So not only do I, and the benefits are just almost unending. Not only do I free up my own time, but someone else becomes a specialist and raises the quality of production in our organization. But then it also raises their feeling of significance, meaning they're doing something important and it elevates, it elevates my thinking, it their significance and overall the whole team wins. And so I'd like to dive into it and really have you coach us because I think this is super important. I can imagine some moms right now that are trying to, or dads, they're trying to home educate their kids and hold a full-time job, it's crazy, right? You've got people that are unable to go into work and trying to balance all of the, just different complications of the season we're in. If you're gonna start at the very basics and tell us, here's how you change your thinking. Kind of walk me through the process and help me think in a different way in order to produce at a higher level. Yeah, so you use the example of like training someone on your team. So the permission, the corresponding permission of delegate, which is one of the five ways to multiply time, you know, there's this framework that we call the focus funnel, which I talk about in a TED Talk and in the book. But delegation corresponds with the permission of imperfection. The permission of imperfect. And so, just like you're saying, Craig, they won't be able to do it as well as you at first. And so you actually have to give yourself the permission of imperfect for a short term window. Good.
And this is what's hard for leaders, right. Because you didn't get to where you are by accepting imperfection. You got to where you are by producing awesome results and doing things excellently and doing things perfectly. So it then, it's such a mind shift to go, all right, well, from that, how do I now? I have to embrace being okay with things just being okay for a little while. One of the multipliers that we profiled in the actual book, he said it this way, he said as a leader, you got to remember, that 80% done right by someone else is always better than a hundred percent done right by you. 80% done right by someone else is always better than a hundred percent done right by you because of what you're saying. Over time, they will specialize in it, they will do it better. But to your question about moms and dads. I think the biggest permission that we are all missing is the permission of imperfection. It's the idea that things can be imperfect and that's okay. Like Andy Stanley has a great quote on this. I know you Andy. He says that you have to remember leadership isn't about getting things done right. Leadership's about getting things done through other people and people are imperfect, you know, and just, as moms and dads to go, it doesn't have to be perfect. Let's step towards it. Let's have a longer-term perspective. Let's have some grace, let's have some patience which is a synonym for procrastinating on purpose, is to wait patiently and to just step towards it knowing that it will get better over time, but to install some systems and do some training and do the best we can with what we have knowing that these, this type of thinking will catch. It will eventually catch and then it will surpass and then it will multiply. It will compound, it will snowball. So there's a lot of growth that happens, I think that gums from, at least for me in my life to go, I got to become a leader by driving for perfection. But for me to really multiply as a leader, I have to embrace short-term imperfection so that I can empower a team to create bigger results. You know, Rory, I often talk about, you know, honoring time, and so I listened to podcasts typically on 1.5 speed. I'm gonna recommend our listeners, put this one on. This is a 1.01, okay. This is like, this is too good to listen to. I mean, there are so many layers. And there's some math here too. There is some math, which is helpful to go slow but I love the idea of permission for imperfection. And yeah, I think that there are times, I know so many leaders out there that perfection can be the enemy of progress, that we're gonna obsess over things. And a lot of times, I think that one of the biggest weaknesses I see with other people is just their unwillingness to delegate because they feel like they can do it faster or they can do it better. And I love the idea of the 80%, if it can be done 80% as well by someone else, hopefully with momentum, then give that away. And the whole organization is gonna become better. I am taking notes as we're speaking. And I know you said there's gonna be five different things. I've got down automation and delegation. What's another one that that is important for us to note. Okay, so if you wanna go there, let me just give you the full framework, okay. 'Cause if you picture the focus funnel and by the way, you can go, you can see a picture of this. If you go to roryvaden.com/GLS, we actually put up a training where you could see the picture and kind of download the slides of the focus funnel. But if you're just listening, picture all of your tasks and your to-do items coming into the top of this funnel, actually the very first thing we ask before automate is eliminate, is this even worth doing? We call that the permission to ignore, because anytime I say no to something today, it creates time in the future because it prevents me from doing something I would have otherwise been doing. This one is really hard for people, because most of us, again, we got to where we are by being yes people. By volunteering for things and doing everything and stepping up and like, taking it all on my shoulders and all that kind of stuff. But so, that strategy eventually caps out and we go, well, I don't wanna say no, I don't like to say no. I'm a people person. I have a hard time saying no. And if you're listening and this is you, one of the things that helped me, again, this actually came from one of the multipliers that in the interviews was, she said, Rory, you're going through life trying to never say no. What you don't realize is that it's futile, it's impossible. You're always saying no to something because anytime you say yes to one thing, you're simultaneously saying no to an infinite number of others. So the only question is, what are you saying no to? And you're either consciously saying no to the things that are insignificant, meaning they don't matter much over the longterm or you end up saying no to the things that are significant in exchange for the urgent. What matters right here, right now something that Charles Hummel called in 1967, the tyranny of the urgent, which is what most leaders lose to. They describe their life as a constant state of interruption, constantly putting out fires. And instead of, you know, we wanna prevent fires and we wanna train firefighters. We don't wanna be the fire, puter outer. Like we don't wanna be the firefighter. So anyways, eliminate as another time. If I say as another way. So first we ask, can it be eliminated? If it can't be eliminated, then it drops down to can it be automated. If it can't be automated, then it drops down to, can it be delegated? Can it be done by someone else? If it can't be eliminated, automated or delegated, then it falls out the bottom of the funnel. And at that point, you have one remaining question, which is, must this be done right now or can it wait until later? If it must be done right now, that is what we call concentrate. So eliminate automate, delegate, concentrate. But if it doesn't have to be done right now, then we call that procrastinate on purpose which is where the title of the book actually comes from. So you're going to deliberately delay. You're going to intentionally put off. Now, you're not gonna put it off forever. You're just gonna POP. We call it POP for short procrastinate on purpose. POP that activity back to the top of the focus funnel. At which point it enters, into this holding pattern where it cycles through until at some point in the future it will either get eliminated, automated, delegated or concentrated like the answer to, can it wait until later will shift from yes, it can to no it cannot. And then it slides down into concentrate. And so that's the, you know, the permission to protect. And that is a conversation about focus, but procrastinating on purpose, even though we're using the word procrastinate, you know, some people get, they say, well wait a minute, Rory in "Take the Stairs" Like in the "Take the Stairs" Book, you said, you know procrastination was the killer of all success. It's the foundation of this like, you know, mediocre life. You know, the whole "Take the Stairs" Book is about solving procrastination. Now you're saying procrastinate on purpose, isn't that contradictory. Well, I did say all those things and they are true as I said them, they're actually not contradictory, because there's a big difference in waiting to do something that we know we should be doing, that we don't feel like doing, which is classic procrastination versus what I'm talking about here, which is waiting deliberately deciding that now is not the right time for something to be done. Waiting to do something I know I should be doing that I don't feel like doing, that's procrastination. That's the foundation of mediocrity. I know I should work out, I don't feel like doing it. I know I should pay my taxes, I don't feel like doing it. I know I need to have a difficult conversation with someone, I'm delaying it. That's procrastination, that's bad. That's not what we're advocating. Procrastinating on purpose is different. It's going, you know what? I don't need to check my email 24 hours a day, seven days a week, because I need to be present with people. Whether it's, you know, with our team, with my kids, with my spouse, it's saying that, I'm deliberately not gonna check social media or email first thing in the morning. I'm going to procrastinate on purpose so that I can, you know, center in prayer or meditation, right. Like, I want the first thing that I, my eyeballs see on a page to be scripture, that's a personal practice of mine. which just so happens to be the Bible app, which is you. So you interrupt my morning every single day. And I love your counter that you added that it's an awesome feature, but that's procrastinating on purpose. So inaction that results from indulgence, is bad. That's procrastination. Inaction that results from intention is procrastinate on purpose, which by the way is patience. What's the difference between procrastination and patience. They're both waiting. It's why are we waiting? Are we waiting out of avoidance, which is procrastination or are we waiting out of faith and trust, and imperfection and giving things time to matriculate, and galvanize and breathe, that's patience. So this is brilliant, and I wanna give our listeners just the gift of putting the link, the focus funnel in our show notes. You don't have to go looking for it, we'll send it to you. And I wanna kind of wrap back and just kind of highlight Rory because I don't care how long you've lead. This is just a great filter just to work through eliminate, you know, and I would say the best of the best say no way more than most everybody else. And so you just, you don't become great by saying yes, too often, you become scattered. You become great by saying no and focusing on a few things. So, can we eliminate automation is like, you know, can we build a system around it? Delegation, can someone do it better and free up time and add significance to their work and their contribution, and allows you to elevate your thinking concentrate. And then I like the idea of procrastinating on purpose. And to me, tell me if you agree or not, you're not just managing time but you might actually procrastinate to a time in the week when you're better. So we're not just managing time, but we're managing energy. For example, I'm interviewing you on an afternoon because mornings are my most creative time. It's also later in my week, meaning I do creative work early in the week and early in the day, but then I'm going to procrastinate and put this interview at a later point because it uses a different part of my brain and is a different part of my energy. And so, I like that idea of I'm procrastinating. It's not that we're being lazy but we're strategically putting the tasks at the time where it's best for us to do matches our energy level. So I just, I love your whole line of thinking. I could obsess and nerd out with you for hours but I wanna switch gears and tap into a couple of other areas of your kind of expertise. We say a lot on this podcast is not original to me. I think it was Maxwell who said it first. What is leadership? Leadership is influence. And you say something, Roy, that's complimentary to this. You define leadership as the art of moving people into productive action and I love that. You're so practical and I'd love for you to be practical again for us. What advice do you have for us to practically move our team members into action? Yes, so this actually is the intersection between kind of take the stairs and procrastinate on purpose. So the focus funnel, which we just walked through, one of the things we realized is that procrastinate on purpose. Even though I wrote that book second, it's not the sequel to "Take the Stairs" It's actually the pre-qual. So it's about identifying what are the things that will multiply time, take the stairs is how to get yourself to do things even when you don't feel like doing them. It, you know, it's all about self-discipline. So, you asked for like one key thing. So, here's the thing. When you look at discipline and moving people to action people tend to conclude that they struggle to take action because of a lack of discipline. I'm just not good at it. I'm just not disciplined. I just don't have the willpower for it. In reality, what we have found is that people don't struggle as much from a lack of discipline, as they do from a lack of vision. Discipline becomes dormant in the absence of a dream, but when you put a vision out there, discipline engages automatically. We become so powerful. When we can see something that we need to achieve or be prepared for or work towards. All of a sudden you know, there's some ancient philosopher. I don't even know how to say the name but it's Pantanjali who says when we're inspired by great force, you know by some extraordinary project, our talents come alive. Dormant faculties and forces come alive. And we find ourselves to be a far greater person than we ever imagined ourselves to be. And that is so true. Like you go, why is this kid struggling in school? He has no discipline. And you go, well, wait a minute. How come he's on the skate, out at the skate park four hours every single day, like he does have discipline. He's got the ability to endure. It's all about context. If I have vision, then there is a clear picture of something that I care about, that naturally creates a context for me to take action. There's a reason for me to make the sacrifice because I see the payoff. But if I don't have vision then there is at best a convoluted connection to how the sacrifices we're asking ourselves and our team to make today, forward us towards any future that we care about. So there is no reason to take action. And so most people don't because the brain, the neuroscience of our brain, like our physiology is all designed, not for success but for safety and for security and for comfort, right. If I'm stranded in the woods, I need my instincts to take over and go, how do I conserve energy? My body first and foremost is designed for survival, but most of us live in a world where we have the luxury of pursuing success, but success and survival are very different. Success is about expending energy. It's about doing uncomfortable things. It's about doing new things, whereas survival is about conserving energy. And so if you have someone on your team that you're struggling to get them to take action. You know, I think this would apply also to a child. That the sooner you can talk about their purpose and their vision for how, what they're doing fits in to something they care about or moves them towards something they care about. And the less you talk about their daily like performance, the sooner you'll see an increase in their productivity. Makes a lot of sense. I'd like to get personal too. And then I'll, then we'll have some fun. I'll give you a lightning round, but you know, you seem to kind of have a boundless energy. And every time, you know, we had late night dessert together in Chicago, recently had a good conversation. And you just kind of overflowing with vision. Can you tell me just a little bit, get inside your mind and maybe more accurately your heart, what is it that drives you, what do you care about? What is it that kind of creates that ongoing sense of discipline and motivation in you that helps you stay at the top of your game? Wow, this is a great question. I would say that I spent the majority if not all of the first major part of my life being very self-centered, you know, striving to achieve and do and create. And, you know, there were some great things that came out of it, not being selfish, not like taking advantage of other people, but just the world revolved around me. It also, it reaches a point where it becomes very exhausting. And I think, you know, in the last couple of years we had a big transition. My wife and I sold our last business. We exited a business we had been in for 12 years and we had an opportunity to create this new space. And it's called, so Brand Builders Group, you mentioned it earlier, is the name of our company. And I think, now the thing that really drives us, is like to be the multiplier of the multipliers, right. It's like I get fired up about the idea of one of our clients having their book hit a bestseller list, or having them build marketing automation for their business to drive new leads constantly into the business or for somebody to have struggled with something in their life and for them to become, you know, mission-driven messengers, is what Brand Builders Group serves. And I think this is true about all of us. So AJ said this to me, oh, you know, maybe a few months ago. And it really hits, she said, "I really feel like for the first time with Brand Builders Group, you're really living in what you were uniquely created to be" Which is ironic because I spend much less time advancing sort of my messages and much more strategizing, how can we help, you know, other leaders and entrepreneurs advance their messages. But I think this is true for everyone. It's it's when you find purpose, right. So it comes back to the last question we were just talking about, it's when you find purpose. But I think when people hear purpose, their brain drifts to the like fluffy, like we think of purpose as like this bolt of lightning from God or from the universe or the cloud is part of like, your purpose will be this. And when I think of purpose, I think of a more practical word which is just usefulness or utility. Like you get frustrated when things don't live up to their purpose. Like when my phone or my computer is slow, it's frustrating because it's not fulfilling its purpose. It's, you know, the spinney wheel of death. That is frustration, is the computer is not, it's not performing its utility. And every tool that we have has some utility, some usefulness. As a person, it's kind of like, I think we spend too much time trying to find our purpose and instead we should just go, how can I be most useful? And I think right now we are very very focused on being useful to people. Helping them extrapolate some of their messages. And, you know, we help a lot of entrepreneurs and thought leaders, you know, write their books, create their courses, do digital marketing, you know, launch their podcasts, build their personal brand. And we're being very useful. And so for all of us, as a leader trying to motivate someone else, or as a leader trying to activate the best inside of you, it's about realizing your purpose which I would say is not this, like, you don't necessarily have to go off into the woods for like a seven day meditation retreat or a prayer retreat. Although that is good. I definitely think prayer has a lot to do with it, but it's just practically going, how can I add more value immediately to other people's lives? And if you do that and if you can get your team to do that, I think we activate. 'Cause I think that's how God designed us to be useful. Well, it seems like the people who are most successful are those who help others be successful. And you're doing that at Brand Builders Group. And I can only imagine there's probably a lot of people listening right now that might be wanting to launch a podcast or write a book. And so they, you know, we'll put a link in our show notes of how they can find you just for a little bit of fun. Cause you've got a great personality. So lightning round, really important question, best rock band from the 1980s, who is it? Oh, Def Leppard. Def Leppard, I think that a lot of people would probably agree with you. I don't know if you're a Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, whatever, but what's your favorite recent series on TV? Well. We won't judge you If it's like inappropriate stuff. The series we watch more than anything is "Modern Family"
Okay. And that, I mean, we love that show. So I guess I would say that is probably a series. Do you have a favorite leadership quote or just at least one that comes to mind that you like a lot, it can even be your own. Well, I mean, I gave that one from Andy Stanley. I think that's a relevant one that I've been trying to remind myself of a lot of, you know, leadership's not about getting things done right, it's about getting things done through other people. There's something about the way that he said that that makes, reminds me of give myself permission, give myself permission, you know, to slow down and imperfect What's a great leadership book you've read in the last year or two? Gosh, there's so many of these, you know, of course I would say the Bible, but I guess if you're not asking my like all time classics, you're saying in like recently that I've read. Yeah, you can give us either, whatever, something that impacted you. I don't know, I have to say "Five DYsfunctions of a Team" Like that comes to mind. It was more than a couple of years ago but I still think of that book on a regular basis. Yes, I love all of Lencioni's work. And then it kind of, to me, "The Advantage" He wrote, that that was kind of like a compilation of all his ideas. I haven't read that one yet, I haven't read it. Yeah, I recommend you read it. Rory biggest leadership pet peeve. What makes you just crazy whenever you see it or do it? What's your biggest leadership peeve? I think when I don't prioritize for people, what is the first and most important thing they should be focused on? Like when I don't clarify that and then I figure out weeks have gone by that they've been doing a bunch of things because I simply didn't provide clear instruction that this is the number one thing. So it's like, when I don't communicate, what is the number one thing, I'm just like, that's silly. Makes a lot of sense. Final question. What's an area of personal growth in your own leadership you've experienced recently? Well, I mean, this is what I'm exploring right now. I touched on it a little bit, which I think will probably likely be, you know, one day a next book or maybe a book from now, you know us, we're always thinking two, three books out. This is probably two books away, but I think it is this this personal journey of struggling with self-centeredness and realizing how much, just getting super present to how much that was holding me back as a leader in my ability and helping other people see, you know, in a very practical sense, what the limits are to that and how moving to a place of being useful. It's just a big, big jump for me. Yeah, well it shows in what you do that you really do care about other people and you start appreciate your investment in me, I've learned so much from you both, from a distance, reading your work and then also just as a friend, you're a fantastic leader. And so I wanna say a big, thanks to Rory. If you wanna find out more about him, we'll link to him. You can go to Roryvaden.com to learn more. The books that I recommend. "Take the Stairs" And. "Procrastinate on purpose" If you're new with us, we do release a brand new teaching on the first Thursday of each month. And if this is helpful to you, if you'd write a review or rate it. Wherever you consume the content, that would mean a lot. Go to life.shirts/leadershippodcast. And you can click on the link. We'll be happy to send you the leadership guide with detailed notes and as promised all the stuff that we talked about with Rory, we'll send that to you. If this is helpful, please share on social media. Tag Rory and he may repost you. If you tag me, I may do the same for you as well. Be sure to hit subscribe wherever you consume the content. We'll send it to you each month. And Rory, I tell our people all the time, this is something I love about you. That you're just genuine. I know that we all feel so much pressure to always get it right. And I think you said it, we can give ourselves permission to be imperfect. The way I say it as this be yourself, because people rather follow a leader is always real than one who's always right. (upbeat music)
