- Hello and welcome to This Is. The PS6 is here. - It is?
- Asterisk. - What? No, it's not. - But it's coming. It's-
- [Austin] Okay. - We, from official Sony
- [Austin] Next year? 2023? PS6? - [Matt] 2027, actually. Thank you to Sony for crying and moaning about Microsoft buying activation. - (imitation of crying)
Don't take my "Call of Duty". I like my "Call of Duty" mom. - (imitation) I need my exclusives. So, yes- - People buying Grainger's mordolf. - Sony Ponies, this one's against you. - Oh wait, does that mean
we're Xbots for this video? - Oh yeah, we are. While Sony was complaining
about that in regulatory filings they have said there will
not be a new PlayStation. - [Austin] If they don't
get "Call of Duty". They're canceling PlayStation - [Matt] They're canceling PlayStation. If I'm gonna lose the game,
I'm gonna take my ball home. - The whole like regulatory
filings of Sony and Microsoft arguing over why they both
suck is been terrific. - It's.
- There's so much good stuff. Like they're talking about
why clearly "Call of Duty" seems like the biggest sort of touch point that Microsoft and Sony cannot agree on with this whole thing but us as amateur internet
pundits have lost to talk about. So specifically, one of
the filings they filed said that the existing deal
they had with Activision for "Call of Duty" on
PlayStation would be up in 2027. - [Matt] Yep. - And something to the effect of there would not be a new
generation of PlayStation yet. AKA they didn't want the PS6 to come out and no "Call of Duty" on it. - That's old news, my friend. 'Cause now we're here
to talk about the PS6. - Reading between the lines here. It seems clear that Sony does not plan on launching a new PlayStation generation. Now mind you, that's not PS5 Pro- - No. Did they say generation
or a new PlayStation? - They, I think the... - Because I'd like to have a philosophical debauchery with you. - Debauchery is not the right word. - I didn't say debauchery. I said debauchery. It's debate, It's fancy word for debate. - Can we have fact check on that? D E B A T J U G O S I. DEBATJUGOSI. - Aaron's gotta spell that out now. - Yeah, he loves it. DEBATJUGOSI. What does a new PlayStation mean? - So not a PS5 pro is
my strong inclination. - Yeah, so not, like not
a PS5 slim, not a PS5 pro. - PlayStation 6.
- PS6. - It seems like probably at the earliest Sony will be launching a
PS6 at the end of 2027. You know, November timeframe
like you would normally expect although that's at the earliest, right? Basically this just says that they're not planning on having one, I assume by like January 1st, 2027. - We've talked to past, in the past about consoles having like
a seven year lifespan. - Yeah. - And in that seven years, there might be two and a half years,
we start to see a slim and then another two, two and a half after that we start to get a pro. But we have to kind of ignore that roadmap that we've used in the past because this generation has been so weird about like, you know, we're two years into a life
cycle of the PlayStation. A lot of people can't
get their hands on it. - [Austin] Correct.
They've raised the price. - Yeah. A like a fifth of the generation, like one fifth of this
generation has been, you know, affected by chip shortages. - [Austin] Yeah. - So like I would be surprised
if we see a PS5 pro at all but like I think they're just
gonna jump right into PS6. - I've actually got an entire video- - [Matt] Yeah. - On the main channel, you
can feel free to go check out talking about my thoughts on the PS5 pro. I'll save that for that video. But specifically for this, right? We're talking about PS6. I have a question for you. What do we need a PlayStation 6 for? Now before everyone comments, of course we need a new generation, I'm not saying that right? But unlike the last
generation when the PS4 and the Xbox One came
out, they were consoles that were pretty decent
on the graphic side, but not particularly impressive. It was very clear that after the excesses of like the PS3 and the
360 when they were throwing absolutely everything at these consoles, they were trying to make them truly the best gaming systems possible. The PS4 and the Xbox One
were like the basic versions. They weren't particularly impressive from a technical perspective. And the fact that we're still
dealing, like developers, pretty much all games today
are still having to come out for the PS4 and that base Xbox One, has kinda held gaming back to a degree to the point where I
don't think we've seen anywhere close to the true potential of the PS5 and the series X yet. In 2027, what do you think
is gonna be the point where we're like, oh,
the piece so slow, right? Because they've got pretty powerful CPUs, maybe not quite as good. Like obviously CPUs have
advanced a fair bit, but like what do we need? - That's the thing is like,
yeah, they're pretty powerful. But I mean, you guys know
me, I'm not a PC gamer. I like, I've been very clear about that. I love consoles. You know, I like to
just chill on the couch. I don't want to mess around
with settings or whatnot. But when they came out two years ago, yeah, these were like kind of like, you know, a higher mid-range PC specs. But now we're here two years later and PC games are just running circles around some of the these consoles. And like you say, a big reason is because we have to develop
for PS4 and Xbox One. - Absolutely. And gotta talk about
the chip shortage still. Like do we think we would
still even be entertaining that thought if we could get
a console in everyone's hands- - Yeah. - The way we have in the past of those? Do you think we would even
be entertaining that of like- - Well there's two sides of it. - I don't think we would. - There's two sides of it, right? So they've sold a lot of PS5s and they've sold a lot of
series X series S, right? So I think the generation is advancing at a pretty decent rate, but there's still so many
older generation games and consoles out there
that almost all games are made for the PS4 and the Xbox One. And they, you know, the
graphics have been turned up on the series X and PS5 whatnot. The other thing to consider is the actual price of chips, right? So, the PS5 has gone up in price. I would be very surprised, if the Xbox does also not see
some kind of price increase. - Which is... This is actually something
that I was actually able to talk with some of the Microsoft, the people who actually design the Xboxes. - Oh, name dropper.
- And a big reason. No, no, no, no, no. This
is good context, right? A big reason why they
chose to do the series S at the beginning of the
generation instead of later. First of all it was just to
make sure that, you know, games would work on series S and X and that was kinda baked
in from the beginning. But also it's because of
the chips that they use. As you shrink down the chips they become cheaper and cheaper, right? Chip goes from here to here,
to here, to here, to here. As it gets smaller, it becomes
cheaper to manufacture. You can put more on a wafer
and that's how, you know, PS5 or PS4, slims, and
pros and everything happen. - Yeah.
- The problem is, is that seven nanometer node
that they're using there is essentially the end of
the line for cheaper chips. Like the size of the
chips is gonna come down which would naturally bring the price down but the cost per, you know,
square millimeter whatever is going up. Which is essentially meaning that yes, there will be more efficient
versions and slim versions but the natural calculus we always have that those are gonna be cheaper is not really gonna be true anymore. If this was anything like
last generation, right? So think about PS4 start at 400 bucks, made its way down to
300 relatively quickly. Same thing, Series X. You know, they cut off connect, they went from 500 to 400, 300. And that was kinda where the generation sort of sat for a while. I don't think we can expect that. Now, there will probably be a
slim model of the PS5, right? I think that's safe bet. - I agree with you and I feel like it's
gonna be in body only. Because like I feel like
we already have this like they could change
the packaging of it- - 100%
- Right now. - But the key difference there is that I don't necessarily think these other versions
of the PS5 and series X are gonna really necessarily be cheaper. We're probably never gonna see a $300 PS5 or a $300 series X. But that brings me back to PS6, right? - Yes.
- Because while, yes of course we need
new generations, right? I'm not trying to argue
that a PS6 shouldn't exist but unlike the last generation
in which we really needed those PS4 Pro and the
One X and everything. I would argue that the
PS5 and the series X are well rounded packages enough that they will be totally fine
in 2025, 2026, 2027, right? Like I think there's no glaring
weakness with these consoles that is gonna make them age like sour milk in the way that the PS4
and the Xbox One did. - There's a bunch of reasons
why these things soured and it has nothing to do with the actual consoles themselves. But it is all about like, all right, well higher
frame rates became popular going at above 60 FPS was not a big thing when the PS4 came out. - Dude, the PS3 and 360 ran
so many games at below 30. - Right. - It's easy for us to forget,
try to play "Last of Us" or try to play "GTA 5" on a 360 or PS3. And you talking about like 20
frames per seconds sometimes. - But also, let's talk about
the TVs that we're using. - Yeah. - You know, when those came out, a 32 inch TV was pretty big. - I play the 360 on a CRT.
- Right. (Austin laughs) - That's what I'm saying. So like, we went from
like, let's say like, I mean 27, I think was a pretty
standard size back in 2004. - 4K wasn't a thing. - No, no. Now 55 is like considered
small for a lot of people. This conversation is
gonna change drastically in seven years.
- Yeah. - When 90 inches or a 100
inch TVs are the norm. - Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,
whoa, whoa, whoa whoa, no. - No, no. - You never think in the
fifth dimension, Austin. - Are you trying to
argue that we need a PS6 for a 100 inch TVs we're
gonna be using in 2027? Is that where we're going with this? - Walk with me here for a second. - Okay, walking.
- All right. - I'll hold hands, walk down the beach. - Here, here, let's go, we'll walk down. - Okay. - We're walk into the
new house, all right? - I smell the ocean breeze. - We have a hundred inch TV. Suddenly, 4K starts to look
bad at our hundred inches. - Uh, gross. - So we need, we need our 8K now. 8K is much more important when you're getting past like 85 inches. - Yeah, I guess. - And we still want our high frame rates. - Yeah. - So, when we talk about
consoles like the PS6 and getting better. I don't think we're talking
about massive graphic like, like detail increases. We can already render out like details on these things really well and have them look really good. I think it's gonna be all these quality of life improvements. Because right now we
have to choose between, do we want frame rate and do
we or do we want resolution? I don't think it's gonna be, "Oh, we can render out
detail better in a PS6." I think it's gonna be,
we don't have to choose between detail and frame rate. The big thing with PS5
and the Xbox this year was the number one improvement had nothing to do with ray tracing or anything like that.
- Yeah. - It was how fast games loaded. - Yeah, totally. - So like, those are the things
I think we're gonna see in, in new generations of consoles. - Like I disagree with you my friend. It's time we were holding
hands a moment ago. The moment is ruined. - Do you wanna hold hands? - No, no. I know, I won't anymore
because you've upset me, Matt. - What?
- I'm upset now. The one area where I do think- - Yeah - These consoles are going to start aging, obviously today, two years on, not only is there a newer
generation of AMD GPUs, there's already RDNA 3 as opposed to 2, which is in the existing consoles. We've gone a couple
generations ahead on the CPU. You've got Nvidia who are
out here with the RTX 4090 which obviously is a very
expensive, very large card. But imagine you're gonna build a brand new next generation game. Imagine you're building Star Citizen 2 with the $300 million that you've embe, I mean borrowed from all
your wonderful backers. - Interesting choice of words. - What you do is you would
probably start developing for PS5, series X as like your baseline. But the problem is, is
that if you were gonna say, "Oh you know what, my
entire game is gonna be fully ray traced all the time." By 2027 when this game
supposedly would ship, you would easily be
able to probably do that on the RTX 6090. But you wouldn't really
be able to pull that off on the existing consoles. So, I do think that there
is an argument to be made that we do need new consoles every 6, 7, 8 years or whatever. - Yep. - Just to kind of reset
that sort of base level. But that being said, the base
level that we've got right now with the PS5 and the series X is so good that there's not a massive need for it like there was in the past. If we continue to see 4K, we continue to see pretty
decent frame rates. I mean keep in mind that these consoles will push 120 hertz in some games, right? Mind you not at 4K generally speaking. But the consoles we have are great and if we have to wait until
2027 or beyond for PS6, to me that's totally okay. I would prefer for them to
focus on a proper major upgrade than just dropping another console just to say that they can do it. - Let's talk about the thing that no one wants to talk about. - Wait, pause. What do you think Matt's talking about? Let us know in the comments. We'll pause the video, write what you think Matt's about to say. I'm gonna give you some options. He's probably gonna say
something about cloud gaming. He's probably gonna say
something about a Steam deck. Or he's probably gonna
say something about how we're all gonna have PCs implanted in our a hundred inch TVs by 2027. No one wants to talk about it, what is it? - Let's talk about chip shortages. What happens when we
can't keep up with demand? Demand for gaming is gonna higher. - Okay, gamers have risen up-
- Yeah. - And they're no longer compromising. - They're no longer compromising. - Got it, got it, got it. - So, all right, what happens
if this trend continues when we can't get a hundred million units out to the gaming population? - Oh no, I know, I know where
you're going with this, Matt. He's setting it up a strongman argument and then he is gonna
immediately knock it down and say something, something cloud gaming. - Yeah, because- - I knew it, I knew it.
- It's... As always I will have my disclaimer. I do not think cloud gaming
is better than console gaming. I wanna make that very clear. - But when we live in an
apocalyptic hell scape where Sony can't make PlayStations,
that's our only option. - No, the, whole, look, look. People forget that these
are companies who are trying to make every last
cent from you that they can. We saw the first year of
this console generation. Sony was making, was
like hemorrhaging money. - Which-
- Because. - is not that weird for consoles because usually they were
sold at a loss or break even. - But even more so because all
the ones that they did sell were being sold to scalpers. - Correct. - You were then not buying games. - Yeah. - They're not investing
money into the ecosystem. - Yeah. When I think Microsoft is seeing this and that's why they're ahead
of the game with cloud gaming it is so much like easier, cost effective to set up a bunch of data centers where they can set up cloud gaming and when we have the the new
systems out, when we have PS6, instead of trying to get out
a 100 million units to people and having to deal with, oh well, you know, tariffs
over in my country means that a PlayStation 6 is
gonna cost 3700 dollars. If they set up a data
center in that country. They expand their market massively and be playing PlayStation games, investing money into PlayStation where they make all their money
through the actual services. What do you think is
more likely to happen? Them saying, "Oh we have to
set up all the manufacturing to do all of this and get all this out." Or we can just start racking in money by turning on this service. - But here's the question. Why would they, why would it be either or? If they're gonna bring out- - They could do both.
- They will do both. Of course, they'll do both. Like the PS6 will come out.
- Yeah. - I don't think there's a question that there will be a PlayStation 6 that's a brand new generation. - But I don't think like,
we won't see a PS5 slim. - We're gonna see... - Wait, wait, you think no PS5 slim? - No. - What? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, Matt. You talking crazy right
now. You talking crazy. What are you smoking? What
are you talking about? - I'm smoking a lot. - Okay, obviously. - If they didn't, if if they- - Oh my God. - Went through the trouble
to shrink the chip right now shrink the motherboard and then said let's just put
it in the, the typical... - Cause it's only two years in, I think they're gonna wait till like halfway through the generation. So, either next year or the year after, they'll bring out a PS5 slim with probably like a five
or four nanometer chip. It's probably gonna be like
marginally less expensive. It'll be a little guy. Microsoft have invested the time. - Yeah. And importantly have giant
piles of cash they like to burn. And they have done that by
building a bunch of data centers which are super helpful, if you wanna play some cloud gaming. Sony can't compete with that. I think Sony are cloud
gaming and almost name more than anything else. So technically it exists,
technically you can play. - I mean like- - PS now or whatever, but like it's not- - It's not good. - It's not good. So like to me, they've
gotta lean into two things. They gotta either lean into
selling you PlayStations or they've gotta lean into making PlayStation games available on other platforms such as Steam. - Which they already have. - Exactly, because like you said, none of these companies make
money on the hardware, right? Microsoft have said they're
straight losing money on every single Xbox they sell. But they're important because you need need
to own the ecosystem. You need to get that 30% on all the games that are
being sold on your platform. And what they lose by not creating a PS6 and staying in the
console generation fight, is that yes they can
create their own games, their own studios and sell
them on like Steam and whatnot. But guess what? Then they're giving Valve 30% of the money instead of getting the 30% from not only, the 100% of the money they
get from their own studios, but also the 30% they get
from selling "Call of Duty" and selling "Madden" and selling "FIFA" and all the other platforms. So to me, the PS6 is going to happen. I think it's gonna be wild. I think 2027, maybe even
2028 is not unreasonable. But I don't think cloud
gaming is gonna replace it. Sony needs hardware. They can't just get outta the business. They could if they wanted to but the PlayStation division
makes them so much money. - I just, I think that hardware, again, the way that Xbox has done it is they have their all their cloud gaming is just series Xs.
- Yeah. And so, you know, like, "Oh, we come out with our
new hardware tomorrow" instead again trying to
ramp up manufacturing to get out a hundred million units, trying to ship these worldwide, trying to do all the stuff, they have to send a thousand
of 'em to this data center, a thousand to this data center. Throw them into the
server, turn on the switch and then not this entire area
has the most updated hardware. We have one unified system that
developers can optimize for. I know you guys were to
say about cloud gaming all the latency, my data caps. This is why we're not here yet. We have AV1 encoding
that's becoming popular now which gets rid of your data caps because the data rate for AV1 is so small that you can stream all day and use like a fraction of the data. The reason I keep saying
cloud gaming is future is because again, this is
the cheapest way for them to get all these things out
to the most hands possible which is ultimately the company's goal. - I'm very excited to read the
comments on this argue fest. We're just gonna turn into cable news where Matt and I are gonna
argue just to help rating, I mean views and subscribers. But if you enjoy this,
make sure to subscribe. Ring-a-ling the ding-a-ling button. And let us know on the comments below, how one of us is totally right and one of us is totally wrong. I won't tell you who is who. - Let's face this, the comments are gonna
be that we're both wrong. - And everyone should just by
Steam decks and call it a day. - Yeah, pretty much. (lo-fi music)
