PERCUSSION REVOLVER BRASS FRAME QUESTION

[Music] good morning guys lucky for shamans for witchcraft okay today we're going back with the percussion revolver series and I'm gonna do a little in-depth discussion and explanation of brass framed colt replicas and what is commonly and actually incorrectly called frames stretching now for those of you they're not aware back in the historic time period there were some guns mostly by the Confederacy created in brass or some sort of a bronze alloy they were considered a cheaper why were they doing this back in the day because they could cast it at that time the art of casting brass had reached a pretty high threshold and they were very good at casting to a prefinished shape when you were trying to make the frame from say steel or iron you had to start with a block and cut it to all those shapes so it was a cheaper more expedient way of making it that's reason we seen historic time period in modern day there are tons of these guns that never existed in the historical time period there was never in 1860 army made by Colt in brass never happened I'm not saying that some gunsmith somewhere didn't make one but there wasn't one same thing where the 51 Navy did have a couple of brass frames but those were very early then they were steel frames the Confederacy made them in brass frames and made several different guns in brass frames of course the Griswold and Gunnison etc but today with our modern replicas you see them very economically prized of an 1860 army of 51 Navy of 58 Remington or whatever several other different ones and they're in a brass frame and you will read and hear about oh you don't want one of those because the frame will stretch okay now let's look at that for just a moment now this is a field stripped it down this is a very old worn and tired one of them but I got in the mid-1970s and have just shot at two pieces but I have feel stripped down to make it a little easier to see some relative points now let us be clear on what is happening here upon firing the hammer fires hits the cap and it ignites the pressure and back thrust of the cylinder drives it backward against the frame the ball or bullet is then transferred to the barrel this implies friction and wants to push the barrel off that way so right here where the barrel wedge is you're getting two different opposite pools you're also the base pin which is steel that goes all the way through is being pulled apart because it wants the frame wants to go that way because the cylinder and the barrel wants to go that way the common misconception is that the frame down here stretches because you end up with a bigger cylinder gap up here now this isn't exactly true let me set up so you can see this closely and we'll discuss what's really happening okay now let's look at what's actually going on here in the Colt design you have the barrel you have the frame with a steel cylinder pin and I'm gonna call this the base pin and then you have the cylinder now if you'll notice the only thing that keeps the cylinder in place it's fully free-floating the whole time the only thing that does that is the cylinder stop in there rises up and locks into it but the cylinder stop does not lock it it just holds it in place side to side it does not hold it in place forward to back okay the other thing that you want to notice is down in here in this section right here I can get it to focus in inside this recessed area right in here is where the ratchet of the coat right and if you'll notice when you look at the teeth of the ratchet of the Colt they're rather sharp it looks a lot like one of them teeth on a meat tenderizer and it's doing kind of the same job now here's why I say that the frame does not stretch when the frame is locked together in proper orientation like that if these opposing forces of the barrel wanting to exit that way and the frame wanting to go this way was stretching the base pin out of position therefore this down here with this down here be actually lengthening but it's not if this part of the frame physically stretched you then couldn't get the wedge in because this would in effect get farther out like that and the base pinhole would not line up with it so this is not stretching suppose that it's the cylinder pin then right here because this is steel suppose then where it screws into the brass frame that those two opposing forces are pulling it out the threads are given in it's scooting forward but that isn't the case that I have found because that would put a bigger cylinder gap here as well if this base pin was moving that way you'd get a big gap down here and on the ones that I've looked at their work won't quote shot out you don't see this here this looks good so what we're left with is down in here in this recess area of the frame were those ratchet teeth go because whenever the cylinder slides in like I said the boat that comes up from below all it's doing is holding the turning side inside it does not hold it forward to back and when you look at this old beat-up old original here usually the front right here of the cylinder notches is pretty bad battered and mine is to a point I know you can't see it because way it's patina it does these notches kind of elongate to the front what is actually happening is hammer painting and what that means in English is brass being softer than steel can be hardened by beating on it you put it on an anvil or something and you start pounding on it and it will grow thinner and denser and denser quality throughout so you can start with a piece say a quarter-inch stick pound it down to 1/8 inch thick and it would be much tougher stiffer harder denser by doing so so what's happening here is the teeth on that cylinder are beating against the frame back here and this is causing it to go back now how you see this most often here right now see if I can get it to focus in on that right now pushing the it all together snugly and me trying to pull back hard on the cylinder there's hardly any gap right there yet when I fire this gun there's a gap back there about like that you could own you can slide it down between it but when I [ __ ] it it disappears wine that's because of these ratchet teeth right here as they are rotated around into battery they come up to the same position so to speak with these teeth and they go back and pile drive into that frame inside that hollow spot and when they do these teeth again acting like a meat tenderizer form pockets where they hammered battered into it if you'll notice on one that's been shot loose the cylinder they talk about it getting to be hard cocking well that is because the hand here in the notch it comes up like this and it hooks those notches and lifts up but in proper configuration hand leans forward a little bit to reach out and grab it when this cylinders pile drive back the hand is driven more vertical instead of four word out so now time to push straight up and since each one of those teeth has locked into that notch it's made back there it has to push it forward and then rotate it so you see this cylinder gap appear and disappear as you [ __ ] it so in proper configuration if you've got one that's quote quote shot loose if you have no gap here and you [ __ ] it and look into the actual hammer channel back here because what they do is they install this pin and they mill this out that way it's nice and smooth it should be perfectly smooth right there maybe just a touch recess if there's no gap going down there that pins not moving forward all the damage is being incurred inside that tiny little circle right there where the base pin screws now it's hard to see a course because you got this rebated rim out here protecting it and then you've got the base pin in the way so that nickel whip hole right there for those teeth to go into that's where all the damage it's creating bigger head space as it pile drives backwards and firing it's creating that head space so what could be done about it well you don't need to get a gunsmith to take the cylinder off unscrew the base pin lock it up take a vertical mill and go into that opening deepen it down a little bit and put a hardened steel insert in it would be a bearing surface in for the back of the cylinder to bear against in recoil now if some young gunsmith out there wants to practice this I bet you that there's a market for it because there's a lot of people that's got these old guns that would like to get them back in the shape of trim and if it was for a reasonable fee it would probably make you quite a bit of business as well as if I knew that you were going to do such a fee for say 50 bucks or 60 bucks I might just go ahead and buy brand-new brass 51 Navy or 60 army or whatever and send it to you and have you do it out of the box so I wouldn't have to worry about the gun shooting loose over time that's just my two little ten two cents worth boys now can it be done yes it can be done I have heard of it being done I have not physically done it though and I have thought long and hard about it about what is actually causing this effect and it keeps coming back to the frame being battered by the teeth of that coat now why don't you see this in Remington's so much well Remington's can quote quote shoot loose but not nearly as fast well if you look at the back end of a remington cylinder its kind of flat there's no teeth there holic dish is cut out for the hand on a Remington so it's more of a blunt face hitting the frame but the situation would be the same if they were just a Millis teal insert and put it in there that would cure the problem it would in effect act like a snowshoe so it would spread the impact over a big enough area and would not batter and cause unsafe headspace that's my two cents for it guys I hope this gives you some ideas and if you have any questions or comments please put them below and if you haven't subscribed please do until next time i'm blackie 4 shamans forwards woods crafts wishing you a safe journey have a great day guys

Channel: BLACKIE THOMAS

Views: 16,179

Rating: 4.9599428 out of 5

Keywords: BRASS FRAME SHOOTS LOOSE, BRASS FRAME PERCUSSION REVOLVERS, PERCUSSION REVOLVER, BLACKPOWDER REVOLVER, 1851 NAVY, 1860 ARMY

Id: UEP8YyMdgV0

Length: 12min 56sec (776 seconds)

Published: Sun Dec 23 2018