- Hey, Penn.
- Yeah. - Do you think Love
and Joe were soulmates? - So, I mean, just me
and that term "soulmate," I have my own kind of like
philosophy around that, but yeah, I mean, in a sense that we mean it, in a culture that otherwise
doesn't talk much about souls. [Laughs] I feel like, yes,
they're perfect- - I love that.
- For each other, you know what I mean? It's like, we don't
really take souls into- Except in relationships! Except in love. When I'm finding somebody good for me. So I, you know, I think
that they were as compatible for each other as they would ever find. Going into Season 3, what was the one storyline you
were most excited to explore? - This marriage and what a relationship
looks like long-term. It was really interesting
to explore the ways in which Love put her attention
towards Joe this season and trying to preserve or
revitalize the relationship, because it's such an impossible task. Like, we know Joe at this point, but she's just not done with
the relationship. You know? - I was probably looking forward most to see, like, how they
go from, in some way, really trying to make it work, to him killing her. Like, what were the things
that he ultimately tried to do and failed to do, and then
how it was going to happen? I couldn't imagine the
way that it would happen that would, like, give
Love the right send-off, that would do justice to
the whole two seasons of arc that they had together. So, that was, like, probably
the most exciting thing to see unfold. - I think it was also really interesting to explore Love having an affair, you know, while simultaneously trying to preserve her relationship. That all was very interesting
and surprising given - And the complexities of the ways in which that relationship
resembles her relationship with Joe, as well as her
relationship with Forty. Yeah that- - Do you feel like it made it harder for you to believe Love? Because there's a way you talk about Love that, to me, is like, you're so good at
understanding her intuitively and defending her
and, like, not judging her. And I'm just curious,
like with the affair, and her honestly trying with Joe, did you feel like that was -
You know what I mean? - No, it really felt like an act of- In order to justify it, right? Like, in her mind, it's kind
of an act of desperation. She's really at her wit's end. Like, she's really ready
to, like, lose her mind, and it's this, like, little respite that allows her to build up
her ego and her sense of value. Clearly this season, it
really comes to a head, how much value she puts
on being seen as a woman who is desirable to men. - How many times did you
work with wardrobe and makeup and everybody, and hair, to like, cause there was this shift for- Joe had one too, but I think
it was a little less so. Like, Love really went
from one place to another. I know the actor is
always some part of it. And I just recall seeing you, because we were shooting
some scenes out of order, and on the first
couple of days you had to go right to like mid-season arc, where you had like hair
and makeup in a way that I'd never seen on you. So that was kind of a shock. Was that fun to explore with Love or was it uncomfortable and how much did you,
like, enjoy the process of collaborating with hair and makeup and wardrobe and everybody? - I really, really enjoyed that process. I felt like I had a lot of
say, and that was really cool. 'Cause I didn't feel like I had that much when we first started, to be honest. So, it felt really good to feel empowered within that process and the fact that I've actually been heard and, like, that people are digging in and excited about what
they're being able to create. But also it was just like,
it just felt perfect. Like, of course, she
becomes something else. Like, that's the solution, you know? Like, don't look in.
Just fix, fix outside. Just become something else. And of course she's still
the same person at her core. She still has all the
trauma she's experienced, now she's trying to run from it and she's stripping herself
of her individuality and conforming to the
society and she resents it because is she actually
her most confident, sexy self? No! You know? She's just playing a role or society's idea of what sexy is, but she's empty inside. She's, like, the most
self-conscious she's ever been. She's, like, feels the most
invalidated by the world. She's so disconnected with her husband. She feels inadequate as a mother. You know what I mean? But she's doing all these things. - It actually reminds me
of Season 1 in a way, where it's like, if you
really take this as a story about a woman, rather than
a show about this guy, it's very sad. It's very sad. 'Cause it's their downfall. - But she's also making these choices. Like, don't feel too sorry for her. She's making active choices. She has the freedom to make these choices. And this is what she does. It's easier than looking within herself. It's easier than admitting her faults that she's made in her life, you know? - Yeah. When did you find out what
was going to happen to Love? Who told you and when? - I knew that I wasn't gonna
make it past my second season and I kind of assumed
that I would be killed. I don't really remember
exactly when I heard that. - Right, right, right.
- For the first time. - When you first came onto
the show, back in Season 2, I actually think you knew
more than I did. [Laughs]
I think there were some thing that you... - [Victoria] About what
this season would be? - I think so, yeah. Just, there were certain
things you had to be aware of that I wasn't, initially, but knowing that she was going to die, do you think that had an
effect on your performance throughout the third season? - No. And I think that that's why, when it eventually happened, it felt like stopping
a, like, running train. Do you know what I mean? I found, I think that that's
why I felt emotional at the end and why it was painful, is because I wasn't acting the
scenes with that awareness. You know, I wasn't trying to, like, pull at people's heartstrings and be, like, you know,
just so that when she, or, you know, dies that we,
like, really care, you know? I just tried to play it honestly and as, like, manically
and intensely as she acts, and in the end, she's so manic and
she's so ready to launch into this new chapter of her life, after killing her husband
and disposing of the body. Like, she's like, "I'm going to find
something new for myself." Like, "This man has destroyed me." And then it's just like -
Stop, you know? And all that energy was
still, like, fully in me from, like, everything that had happened and the momentum of those six months that we had been working
and it was pretty intense. I didn't expect that
because I wasn't thinking that it would affect me, or - I can underplay the
energetic, spiritual component of what we do sometimes. 'Cause
- Yeah, - I think that's -
- No, no. Totally. [Laughs] - But, yeah. Yeah. - So, what do you think it is about Love that made her such a, like a
formidable, not just opponent, sometimes partner, you know, sometimes she was not just his equal, but also she would one-up him. Like, what are those things about her that you think made her, like,
a twin pillar of the show for two seasons? - Yeah. I think part of it is the intelligence and perceptive nature that they've - And they're like, they're
survival mechanisms that they've developed
through their neglected and abusive childhoods, but also the way they deal with it. Their massive victim complexes that lead them to feel like
the world is against them. And so the two of them
at one point, you know, really found solace in each other because the world was against
just them together. But I guess eventually they
kind of lose that bond, but that still really, I think, fuels so much of their antics, you know, and really, I think, makes
them really comparable to each other. - It makes me think that
[Laughs] next season, people
are just going to be like, "Where's Love?!" Everybody's just going
to be tweeting memes, like, "The show sucks
without Love now." [Laughs] - What was it like when we, you know, we're shooting these
scenes in the dining room and you haven't been in the position in which you have to, I
guess you're in danger a lot, but like, in which there's
really a head-to-head, you know? - Yeah. How was it like to not only
have to speak in a scene, first of all, and then -
[Laughs] - So hard!
[Laughs] - But also, go head-to-head with, you know, that person that is really
comparable to his, you know, really disturbing nature? - Well actually, what you
said earlier says it all, like, there are no scenes
that Joe has to talk in as much as the scenes with Love. Actually, that says it all right there. Joe, otherwise, is just in
his...He's in his kingdom. Even if he doesn't have the upper hand, from the audience's perspective, from the show's perspective, he does because we're in his world. And then when he's not, I mean, you know, those are the scenes where like, there are no thoughts, actually. There might be some now, but like, I feel like there's very
few thoughts to interject. So that means he's present. That means he's pulled out of his domain. I really didn't want to feel
as though I had the upper hand. I actually kind of let all
of his insecurities come out. So for me, it was,
like, humbling, in a way. Or that's not quite the word,
but something like that. - If you had some choice, I guess, in some fantasy world
[Laughs] that we're not living in, how would you think that
it would be a fun way to end Joe's journey? - I used to say that he
should be killed by a woman, but then I really pretty soon after, like, revised that because I
don't think that's justice for the woman who has to do that. It's a great question. And I'm really not sure. I honestly feel like that
has to be the question for the rest of the series, because I think he found true
love in Love the character. Basically demonstrated
that if he's not willing to do the thing, then he's
never going to get it. So, now it's like, all right, what is, where is there reconciliation with just justice in the world? Because he's not going
to get it with a person, that's not the way things
work, I think, for him. So, I don't know.
It's sad. It's sad to think about. Like, should he just be miserable? Should he just be miserable? Because that's like, I don't
know what justice is with him. I don't know. Like, should he be forgiven? Like, I don't -
It's crazy. - I know, it's a very
interesting thing to think about. And I think that's one of the
fun things about the show, is really not knowing
what you want to happen, but just taking it in.
- Yeah. [Laughs] [Penn] Yeah, that's a good point.
