Pastor Paul Chappell: Leading in a Day of Spiritual Confusion

take your Bibles and turn if you would please to second Timothy chapter three and I'd like to teach in this hour a session entitled leading in a day of spiritual confusion subtitle dealing with sin hostility and brokenness in ministry and so we're gonna look at some different topics here but we're going to begin with 2nd Timothy chapter 3 and reading in verse number 10 and down through verse number 15 it's been a great morning hasn't it thank the Lord for it thank you again for the Great Spirit you brought to the meeting and I trust that this session won't be a help and I'd like to do a little roundtable brother gave wave at me if I'm if I'm only on point to always back but we'll do our very best second Timothy chapter 3 and verse 10 who needs notes if you didn't get notes raise your hand anybody need notes alright one dear lady in the back over here needs notes and one kind gentleman on the left so fellas good alright second Timothy 3:10 but thou has fully known my doctrine don't you wish you could say that about some churches you know Tom Malone told me they shouldn't have to come to your church for more than a few weeks to figure out where you stand on most every major thing and Paul said thou has fully known my doctrine and then knows this manner of life what a great thing to say to your Timothy's you knew that I was real right he said you knew my manner of life then he said purpose faith long-suffering charity patience you knew my persecutions afflictions which came unto me at Antioch and Iconium at Lystra what persecutions I endured but out of them all the Lord delivered me yay and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution but continue thou in the things which thou has learned and has been assured knowing of whom thou hast learned them and that from a child thou hast known the Holy Scriptures which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus let's pray together Lord we thank you for the beauty of a new day we thank you for the joy of new friendships and and for the time that we've had to grow to pray to repent and we ask that you would continue to teach and instruct us throughout this day and we'll thank you Lord for it and we pray this in Jesus name Amen you may be seated it seems almost overly simplistic to say that we are living in a day of spiritual and moral confusion but who would have ever thought that we would come to a day in which a society is trying to redefine the very definition of man and woman who'd have ever thought that we would see the legalization of marijuana who would have ever thought that we would see churches that when society is screaming screaming out wanting to know why and wanting to know the answers churches are stuttering instead of speaking denominations are voting on things like should we drink or not what about letting Beth Moore preach what about going ahead and changing this doctrine or that doctrine and when we need to be going forward and preaching and sending a clarion sound it seems like today churches are having sidebars and meetings to decide about things that God already decided about a Barna study in 2016 found that there was literally no difference in the divorce rates amongst evangelicals of all groups and those that are without Jesus Christ in another Pew study found in 2018 that 25% of atheist marriages end in divorce but 22% of Baptists ended in divorce too when I speak about confusion I want you to see in some of these statistics the confusion has moved from the culture right into the church house it's sometimes indistinguishable the problems today another survey said that 48% of church-going men drink alcohol while 56% of Americans as a whole drink alcohol just on nearly every single subject you learned this when you were in Bible College if the churches standard is here if the churches standard is here and the world is here then when the world goes down so oftentimes the church adjusts remember learning that right remember that fellas when they told you to keep the standards up here remember that right and it's and what you were taught is exactly what's happened that the world keeps unwinding and the church keeps following the trend and so the confusion mounts now much of this may be attributed to what is referred to in the Bible as the falling away from the truth 2nd Thessalonians 2 and 3 let no man deceive you by any means for that day shall come except there come a falling away first it's an unraveling and that man of sin be revealed the son of perdition the falling away the apostasy ax this of falling or unraveling from the truth is something that we understand will be fully seen and known at the time of the tribulation but no doubt in my mind that that unraveling can certainly begin before the son of perdition is revealed and before the tribulation period begins and how many of you are thankful today that we do have a blessed hope and we're looking for the Blessed hope and thank the Lord for that but prior to his return I believe there has begun and has been for some time a falling away and in it's it's affecting culture the world's culture but the church culture as well we minister confused broken society now what are some of the indicators of this brokenness I want to share a few with with you because some days if you're like me as a pastor I feel more like a triage nurse have you ever known a triage nurse these are these incredible men and women who serve in the ER room and when you have large volumes of people coming in like we do in our city their job is to try to determine what to deal with first right I'll never forget when I was the ninth grade boy I was running out of a swimming pool area and into a house and I I hit a door jamb and I broke my baby toe now it was really painful I want you to know that man I jumped around and jumped around I think swelled up and swelled up finally I said I have got to go to the ER and get some kind of something get it give me a band-aid just give me some sympathy I got so I'm sitting there in the ER with my friend and I mean I've got my toe up and it's just throbbing you know I'm sitting and all of the sudden boom the doors opened up and all of a sudden here came in just gurney after gurney and I said what is going on they said there was a Greyhound bus out on the freeway he had tipped over people died people were strewn everywhere and I got up from the chair and I just kind of walked out back out to my car and look because even if they did care even if they did have a band-aid it wasn't gonna come till way later that day I figured that out and the triage nurses they have to figure out do we deal with this you know broken skull or the baby toe and you know what they're gonna do but as a pastor sometimes when you hear what's going on with families in your church and sin in your city and laws that are being passed it's like Lord what do I do what meeting do I attend and and what do I preach about and and in it it seems like these indicators of brokenness are before us everywhere the first indicator that is so obvious is the acceptance of sin the acceptance of sin Matthew 24:12 and because iniquity shall abound the love of many shall wax cold we see it in our culture gay marriage legalized marijuana pornography everywhere acceptance of sin Health and Human Services report this past February said that there were 1,700 fatalities in our country last year as a result of child maltreatment 3.5 million children who were the subject of an investigation of which 676 thousand children were victims of abuse and neglect I think about much of this directly attributable to alcohol and pornography and it's just flowing through this country what is what an what an amazing statistic brother Jill it brought last night the cost for an abortion versus the cost for an adoption in America we live in a sin SiC nation in 2018 over 41 million abortions were done throughout the world and in case you didn't see the video of the governor of the state of Virginia talking about late term abortions or even infanticide just take a listen so in this particular example if a mother is in labor I can tell you exactly what would happen the infant would be delivered the infant would be kept comfortable the infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother so so I think so in other words they let the baby die instead of the doctor doing what doctors do to preserve life they just keep the baby comfortable while they're having their discussions and let the baby die this is the society that we live in this is the value that is placed on life in our culture we see it but then we also see these indicators in the local church we see this this cultural trend coming daily into the church now we all know what the word church means the ekklesia is a what say it with me a called assembly and it appears to me that the church has lost its ability to stand against the trends of the culture I'm not someone to try to pick at you over you know decor or you know the use of technology in your church or certain methodologies or preferences that's not the nature of this conference we are Independent Baptist I get that I understand the Liberty that we have and so forth but I just must say that in the quest for contextualization we're hearing so many younger pastors and older alike talking about redeeming the culture and using the culture and I just would say that in those conversations instead of having a called out assembly they're beginning to look like blend in assemblies and much of this problematic culture is entering into the church house and and and to the extent that mainline denominations have accepted the gay agenda and now there are evangelical leaders whose speech is softening and whose stance is softening and very apologetic for the stand that we have taken it's almost as though there's a nervousness in their system with the me to movement I'll talk about that in just a moment things have not been handled properly in many denominations and groups and if in a Baptist as well but may I say that we just still need to stand forth and speak the Word of God on every issue primary job of the pastor is not social justice you get enough people save social justice take care of itself my primary job is just to keep preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ and when I when I say gospel I mean the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ I think that's what it means in the Bible as well I said this in the sermon Sunday night but this quote and if someone said who said it many have said this that that we need to love the sinner more than our biblical conviction that's absolutely ridiculous you do not love the sinner if you don't tell them what the Bible says about their sin and so there has come into the local church this acceptance of sin we've seen it in the society in the church secondly now there is the appearance on the scene of hostility towards the faith and we saw that in 2nd Timothy 2:12 yay and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution now we have had such relative ease here in America with respect to our faith and and some of the times when people have called us out we really needed to be called out because there is a case to be made that we are fearfully and wonderfully made and we should treat all people with dignity some of the ways that some preachers preach against the gay movement is not right some of the ways that churches have treated people of color is not right I understand that so what I'm saying is sometimes we've brought persecution our way because we've been kind of belligerent and fleshly in our spirit but the point of it is this if all you're gonna do is stand for the truth of the gospel and preach the whole counsel of God and you're faithful at it even if you're speaking the truth in love there's gonna still be hostility come and that's what I like to say to pastors is that you know you need to you need to stop in question if you're changing all of these things to find acceptance what else is gonna get changed to find acceptance because they're gonna hate the gospel of Jesus Christ acts 14:22 confirming the souls of their sciples and exhorting them to continue in the faith and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God now I think we're all aware of this but there will be some professing Christians who will not suffer all they that will live godly it's a decision right Daniel made a decision right preachers today are having to make a decision you're gonna blend in you're gonna you're gonna you're going to be an outsider you're gonna step outside the cultural no the religious norm and stand for God are you just gonna blend in with what's that's your decision and we see it we see it across the country suit with the onion pendant Baptist they have made their decision that they're there they're not they're not going to stand up for certain issues and and there's just certain that you say that's right major doctrine and I'd go beyond that and I would say look at I'm a Baptist and I'm not taking the name down and I'm not taking money from denominations that are not straight on the doctrines of the Word of God I believe in separation I believe in taking a stand on those issues as God has led me so so what I'm saying is is that there are many who who aren't willing to stand they're all that will live godly shall suffer and I'm not looking for persecution I'm just saying I am looking to live a godly life and if you're looking for that you may suffer persecution I think of this CCM singer I think his name is Laura Dingle or Dingle I can't always say it right she was on the Dominic Nattie show and I think on The Ellen Show later and just she was asked and she's her pastors name is Andy Stanley and he is just so wanting to unhitch from the Old Testament or legalism or whatever he's wanting to unhitch from and so they asked her what is your opinion about the gay movement and her response was I can't really say one way or another I'm not God now none of us are God but most of us know him and he's pretty clear on that issue the problem is when you're pastors not clear on it you're not going to be clear on it the problem with this country is the fact that as churches are stuttering and equivocating in a compromising our members are just simply reflecting the fact that we're trying to unhitch from the passages by the way you can't unhitch from the Old Testament two thirds of the New Testament is from the Old Testament just to be honest about that so when there are those who say well look at you know I'm not too sure about that issue and I'm not God and and and and when they're taking a blend in approach to their theology they may not suffer persecution but for those who preach the whole counsel of God there will come difficulty the Bible says November 2017 The Huffington Post said Christianity in America is the single greatest cause of atheism today their medieval ideology has to change and you'll hear more of that Hillary Clinton said similar things during the last election go around that somehow we need to get these Christians to think differently and we need to retrain their thinking last May 13th Mitt Romney called Southern Baptist pastor Robert Jeffress a religious bigot because he said Mormonism is a heresy from the pit of hell well say it you know here's the deal in case you don't know the history get the book outsiders did you know that Baptists were actually killed by Roman Catholics they were actually killed by Calvinists too but that's probably not really acceptable to discuss that so since we don't have time to discuss it I wrote about it in a book [Applause] it's well documented anyways i I'm just saying when when pastor Jeffress said Mormonism is heresy look at anything that teaches that Jesus was a man who became God is denying the eternal Godhead of Jesus Christ a deity of Jesus Christ he was fully God who took the form of man and so all the pastor was doing was was preaching the Bible but for that he was called by a sitting United States senator a bigot right and illustrations could be given like this all morning so the idea being if you're gonna say well I'm not God hey however you want to live you're gonna have a relative ease in this world but if you're gonna stand up and say ok this is a heresy to say this about Jesus Christ then then it might get a little hot in the kitchen and we see the hostility coming along so the appearance of hostility in the culture towards the faith is very evident let her see the mistrust of Christian leaders when I look at the brokenness of our society I see the mistrust I'm mindful of tertullus before Felix as he accused the Apostle Paul in acts 24 and verse 5 and this is what he said of Paul he said we have found this man a pestilent fellow a mover of sedition amongst the Jews throughout the world and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes you know there may come a point in time where your insistence that Jesus Christ is the only way and your insistence on it on abstinence and your insistence on teetotaling whatever you're gonna insist upon your convictions that someone's gonna finally just say about you might be someone in your city might be a liberal clergyman I don't know who it might be they might say you know I'll tell you about that preacher he is a pestilent fellow and if you have lived right you're speaking the truth in love and you're taking the right stand and they call you that I just want to remind you you're gonna be in good company but just generally in our society today and instead of pastors being sought after or could you help me or counsel with me on this or that the spirit of that is changing USA Today in fact years ago about three four years ago did a poll they pulled Roman Catholics and they asked how many of you are favorable to Christian fundamentalists thirty seven percent how many of you are favorable to Muslims fifty seven percent that's sort of the landscape out there especially in a lot of your major cities in the church evangelical church attendance has fallen by twenty percent over the past twenty five years churches have mishandled abuse immorality and people have lost respect trust and that's not the only reason for the decline in attendance but it certainly hasn't helped thirty percent of those who identify as religious do not have a church where they attend they just say they believe in a God ninety-four percent of churches in America are shrinking relative to the size of their communities we're seeing in our country right now a culture that shifting churches that are shifting a falling away of truth like we have never seen it's hastening before our very eyes now in the midst of all of this brokenness God has called us to preach a message of restoration and healing and yet why is that not happening what are some of the hindrances to the healing that is so needed I want to share a few of them with you look at verse 10 if you would the Bible says here in verse number ten but thou hast fully known my doctrine manner of life purpose faith long-suffering charity and patience in other words in the first century it was Paul's desire that when people viewed him or heard him there was a unibody construction to what he said there was an integrity in the model that he was giving forth a certain sound right and sometimes people say well why wouldn't you do so-and-so or why do you practice this kind of separation because I want to try to give a certain sound to our church family I want them to know where we stand and in our message in our lifestyles in our affiliations and sometimes there's a hindrance to healing because the church is sending so many mixed messages and the the world looks for answers but they see just confusion let me give you a few thoughts first of all one of the hindrances to healing is conflicted leaders conflicted leaders the Bible says in 2nd Timothy 4:3 for the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers having itching ears and they shall turn away their ears from the truth and shall be turned unto fables now many leaders today with this confliction you you we don't know the hearts of every leader sometimes it appears to be insecurity a desire for acceptance that sometimes it seems to be a lack of courage to stand up and speak the truth we don't know what confliction czar going on we just know the Bible says that they will have this concept of tickling the ears of their listeners as their mode of operation they will not endure sound doctrine the Bible says and many leaders are confused and they're accommodating to the times today leaders are accused and are confused in three areas rather number one they're confused about the requirements for leadership the requirements for leadership can we just state at a spiritual leadership conference that God still requires for his leaders and for the pastor's the requirements that are found in the Bible whether 1st Timothy 3 Titus 1 wherever you want to go God requires integrity for the ministry and it is it is such a grievous thing and I've seen it with my own eyes in the last several weeks hear preachers that have had terrible failure just popping right back up in pulpits and and ministries and this type of thing and when the world blows the whistle on that it's just kind of like sticking your nose right out to get punched and and the fact of the matter is that we're not going to bring restoration or healing when leaders are conflicted about the very requirements for leadership God requires integrity in the places of spiritual leadership we've covered some of this some of these issues that come up in the newspapers and such sometimes we've covered here 5 10 15 years ago I wrote all about it in the book the road ahead I talked all about the issues that of non-reporting and all of that the fact is that many many godly churches and pastors have been trying to deal with those things in the right way for many many years but we always must be vigilant let me just say we ought never to recommend someone down the road who's been involved in some kind of sin with children or sin in the Church of some listen we need to be so careful with that by the way you don't just hire someone without asking for references but there's a confusion and a confliction within some leaders about this issue and secondly there's a confusion within some leaders about the subject of grace those with unbiblical positions on grace are raising a generation of professing Christians whose lifestyle and beliefs deny the process of sanctification we spoke about Monday night there is there is a lack in the church today of the concept of the fear of God the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom I read not long ago about a group of teenagers who were having a birthday party at one of their houses and one of them pulled out some alcohol and started trying to get everyone to drink and one young lady said I could never take a drink because of my father and her friends said are you afraid your dad will hurt you and the girl said no I'm afraid I will hurt my father you know there's nothing wrong with having a holy reverence for God in your heart and we've spoken for many years about grace the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts what should what shall we say then shall we continue in sin that grace may abound say it with me god forbid and and yet there's a confusion in so many circles about the doctrine of grace look it I respect anything that calls me to a christ-centered motivation but I reject anything that pulls me away from the need for growth in sanctification and when I I've read many books on the subject of the gospel centered life but when I read a book that is about gospel centeredness and the whole theme of the book seems to be pulling one away from sanctification look I understand we don't we don't want behavior behavioral modification moralistic punching bags and all of this legalistic type of philosophy but as someone is turning from that and they truly are growing in grace they're going to be conforming to the image of Jesus Christ so whatever the term is that you want to use if it's a term that's calling me to a christ-centered motivation I want that I I want that type of gospel centeredness in my life I want to be I prefer to use the term Christ centered because the term gospel can be interpreted different ways but I prefer to say I want to live a christ-centered life but whatever you call it if it's about a christ-centered motivation I want the love of Christ to constrain me but when I start hearing this underpinning that's that's diminishing sanctification and godly living in the fear of the Lord that's when I get concerned because I understand that the Holy Spirit wants to call us to a life that is christ-like and there are many authors today that are that are propagating this false grace whether this guy from Singapore George Prince or Andy Andrew Farley or Steve McVeigh they're they're teaching a type of grace that has gotten even to the point where they now are denying that first John 1:9 is for the believer and I've had people look me right in the face and say I don't have to confess my sin I don't believe I need to ask Jesus to forgive my sin and it baffles me first of all just read first John I mean my little children these things write I unto you it is written to the Christian right and these that are saying well I'm justified this justification only doctrine that denies the sanctification work of the Holy Spirit the Bible is very clear if I decotis in my heart the Lord will not hear me I don't know about you guys I take that very seriously you can go to the New Testament and find the same principle the Bible says it if you're not right with your wife your prayers will be hindered I'm not taking that to it I don't got to confess nothing that's all no no my wife says to me honey you're always so nice to me starting about Friday night because you don't want your prayers to be hindered for your sermon on Sunday morning be careful with some of these philosophies that make us comfortable in our sin there was a dad driving his daughter to school and as he was driving along he realized he'd gone too far and he just kind of quickly made a u-turn and as he made the attorney said to his daughter in the backseat he said I just made an illegal u-turn and his daughter said it's okay daddy the police car behind you just did the same thing can I just encourage you as a pastor and listened every pastor here is gonna read some book and get into something for a while or you're gonna try some method for a while and if you if I could just beg you if you get down a road a little piece and realize you know what this is this is going a wrong direction or I don't know why I did that be willing to turn around be willing to repent they've always said to those of us are little older pastors try not to put a 30-year old guy on a slippery slope and say that is it neo and he's a liberal and it's over look give him a moment because you did stupid stuff when you were trying to figure your philosophy out but I would say that there's needed warning today with with what I call the hyper grace doctrines in in in so much so that even some of those that are not in agreement with us as Independent Baptist some of those that would be maybe with some other theological leanings have been now warning and calling out and giving warnings author simply said this he said what all of these weaknesses in gospel preaching have shown me is that they are preaching a forgiveness without obedience this this was not from a Baptist author first there is a preaching that almost never highlights the truth that Christ died not only to secure our forgiveness but to secure our sin killing obedience to the commandments of the New Testament Christ bore our sins in his body on the tree that we might die to sin and live to righteousness in his own self he bare our sins in his in his own body on the tree that we being dead to sins should live unto righteousness by whose stripes we are healed so this author said of people within his own movement within his own coalition he said they're preaching forgiveness without obedience right then he said they're preaching trust without obey have you ever sung the song trust in obey right he said they're preaching if you will justification without sanctification he said they tend to shrink back from the Apostolic intention of the law of Christ unfolded in hundreds of New Testament commands that define the path of love that leads us to life Galatians 6:2 1st Corinthians 9 21 and instead of calling for the obedience of like the Apostles did they say you can't live that way Christ did it for you just celebrate grace and I mentioned this on Monday night I mention it again because I want to reiterate we cannot live the Christian life but the Holy Spirit of God through us can live the Christian life I am crucified with Christ nevertheless I live yet not i but Christ liveth in me and that is the message of a biblical preacher that Christ wants to be lived he wants his life lived out through yours and through mine and this idea that we should not seek that life is actually unbiblical so there's a confusion about the requirements of leaders on one hand there's a confusion about Grace on the other hand let me just say thirdly there's been a confusion about the legal process on the other hand and I just want to touch on this quickly because some of the confliction with leaders has come when there is sin in the church there's this weird impulse that wants to go into some kind of damage control and sometimes we're like boy I if this gets out about our church okay point number one it's gonna get out it's better for you to get ahead of it right and in this tendency to try to control the information flow or the damage control tendency we've seen it over and over again independent Baptists Southern Baptist you name the denomination it backfires and so let me just touch on this every one of us need to know that we are and that all of our sin a school workers are mandatory reporters when something is reported we call the police that's the law that's what we must do and and we must let this be something that is dealt with and that is dealt with biblically and so many of the the policies of the of the church today need to be updated we have we said in our church years ago and we reiterate it with our staff once here a whistle-blower policy that there's freedom if something seen that's wrong to bring that up we have a policies regarding mandatory reporting we have policies regarding counseling and documentation of what's said and everything's jotted down and and just keeping records of these things is so very important and listen as long as pastors refer immoral men to other ministries the testimony of Christ is hurt and as long as pastors can know of sin that should have been reported and but they're trying to deal with it in their own way they're hurting the testimonies and they're hurting families as well now the fact is as I said we don't need to get off the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ that's our main thing but we also don't want to be negligent of our responsibility to not only the testimony of the church but to the victims of sin we have a responsibility to deal with the sinner and again Galatians 6:2 a part of restoration but listen there's no restoration without repentance there's no repentance if the sins not dealt with and in the middle of dealing with that sin or don't forget to help the wounded don't forget to be a part of meeting their needs so when leaders are conflicted then we find that there is a lack of healing there's a hindrance of healing where there could be healing secondly not only are there conflicted leaders there are confused leaders confused about several things let me give you three areas here there is confusion about the idolatry of the world and again I want to come back and we're gonna go back and forth with some of these themes many Christians continue to accommodate the world and again that the world is looking to us to be the difference maker and when they look to the church and see nothing but more of the world then they're not finding the answers that they need relevance one author said has become the obsession of the modern church and sometimes truth is lost in the pursuit of relevance now a lot of times it's my habit with these lectures to share them with everything that I've preached here today I've shared with three younger pastors and three older pastors I said pray with me about this challenge me on anything I said and one of the younger pastors said I don't like that statement right there and I said well what don't you like about it he said well there's nothing wrong with being relevant and he's absolutely correct every one of us want to be relevant in our preaching that is to say we want to be understood we want our message to be applicable but let me tell you why I kept this in here and I schooled him a little bit on it too so I'll just share it with you the problem with the obsession of relevance is the second half of this statement that sometimes in the quest for relevance truth is lost in the pursuit so there's nothing wrong with being relevant we want to be understood we want to have the message applicable but whenever the truth is minimized for your quest for relevance then you have a problem because truth must always triumph and and this is that this is the issue is that when leaders are confused because of an idolatry of the world they want the acceptance of the world then the message gets lost in the mix of that right Kent Hughes said the modern church is lacking in its ability to remain uncontaminated by the unchristian thinking and morality of contemporary culture Matthew 16:24 then jesus said to his disciples If any man will come after may let him deny himself take up his cross and follow me and and we we could give so many illustrations of preachers that are preaching with rock-and-roll t-shirts they're singing rock songs in the church the entire message they're giving is you don't have to give up anything to follow Jesus Christ right and you hear of these these different messages coming out and and and sometimes that these are preachers that preach a messages that are profound and well studied and and they say some good things and then they'll get up and say something like hey if you want me to witness your friends bring them to the bar over here on this street on Friday night and boom the mixed message comes and as long as leaders are confusing and confused about these issues we're not going to help the world overcome the problems that they're experiencing so on the one hand you have these churches that are given to the idolatry of the world these churches that are overly contextualizing on the other side you have those that have an idolatry to fundamentalism these would have an issue with what I would call under contextualizing they are not relevant they are sometimes not understood there they're so beholden to their alma mater they're so be holding to the culture that they grew up in that that many times they're not having the impact that they could have and so while over contextualizing leads to promise or the diminishing of the truth under contextualizing just to prove that you're more fundamental what do you mean by under contextualizing that that could be in many forms but that could be taking a stand against preferential things I had literally had people write pamphlets against having screens when we put these screens in like boy that was a that was a real bad situation and so on and so forth and because you're not fundamental if you do that and what I'm saying is that's to me a local church issue that's something that every church needs to deal with and and the problem with these kinds of arguments is that we are simply then trying to create a model that we're comfortable with that we saw at pastor school 1960 or wherever you saw it and then that becomes the standard and so you're gonna get mad at this guy because his idol is the relevance of the world but you have an idol too that's what I preached about Monday night it can all become flesh Lee's everybody with me right now any anything that's taking the place of God can become fleshly idolatry is trying to build your identity on something other than Jesus now let's be honest those of us rural older we've seen people that had an idolatry of men and you had to be completely loyal to their institution or to their philosophy and if you weren't loyal enough then you weren't nothing you weren't anything and the problem with that type of mentality is that it's very very limiting scripturally and also in the opportunity that God wants us to have in reaching out so so there is a point to contextualization if you if you do an extreme contextualization to find the acceptance of the world you're going to find that truth diminishes if you don't care about people understanding you and you you insist upon impressing them with a certain philosophy that is very important to you they may not understand you when they come to your church they may don't understand the way you do things they they may not feel the ability to really relate to what's going on so our identity as we've heard a few times this year which is this week which is firmly anchored in Jesus Christ accomplishment needs to be clearly taught it's not found in our school are interpretive methodology our style but it is found in the Lord Jesus Christ and this is what fundamentalism is about fundamentalism is about Jesus Christ the chief Cornerstone and the truth of the Apostles doctrine that we teach and the Bible says in Jude 3 when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation it was needful for me to write unto you to exhort you that you should earnestly contend for the faith so when leaders are either caught up on one hand in to worldly as worldliness or on the other hand trying to worship the culture where they were trained we missed the mark because what we want to be lifting up is Jesus Christ and the true the faith once delivered unto the Saints right and this is the goal that we have but churches that missed the mark of Jesus Christ bring more confusion so we have conflicted leaders confusing confusing leaders and we have compromising leaders leaders that are compromising on the sins of the day the Bible says in Romans 1:21 because that when they knew God they glorified him not as God neither we're thankful but became vain in their imaginations and their foolish heart was darkened speaking in Romans 1 of that Gentile world that fell away from the Lord I think of the sought the church in in Australia the Hillsong Church and their acceptance of homosexuality and their pastor who said the real issues in people's lives are too important for us to just reduce it down to a yes or a no answer in a media outlet I mean he was asked a simple question what do you think about gay marriage he said well you know it's just it's just too complex of a question to just really get it down to a quick answer like that folks it's not that hard of a question it is sin and and we have to remember that discipleship requires taking up the cross and following the Lord Jesus Christ I think it was warned where's be who said the churches integrity problem is in the misconception that we can add Christ to our lives but not subtract sin it is a change in belief without a change in behavior it is revival without Reformation it is a revival without Reformation without repentance Robert Jeffress wrote in his book race gone wild I believe that a distortion of grace is largely responsible for the apathy among many Christians that they demonstrated toward their local congregations whenever we place importance on membership attendance the expectations of giving the responsibility of service the need for purity within the local church congregation the proponents of bad grace yell legalism and we've all heard that yo and I want you to see this quote by Charles Spurgeon and listen to it and remember this was from the 1800s there are some in these apostate days who think that the church cannot do better than to come down to the world to learn her ways follow her Maxim's and acquire her culture in fact the notion is that the world is to be conquered by our conformity to it this is as cons to the scriptures as the light is the darkness how many of you know that a lot of what's going on today isn't anything really that new the trend has been there 26% of Baptists today surveyed in a Pew survey believed that homosexuality should be accepted 58 percent of millennial Baptists believe this it's amazing to me 58 percent of Millennials believe that this should be accepted 48% of millennial Baptists believe in evolution folks we have a problem because the world is coming into the church pastors instead of giving biblical answers are stuttering and all how we need to recognize that there is great compromise concerning the issues of the day on the sins of the day concerning the doctrines of the Bible there's compromise 1st Corinthians 14 8 there's an uncertain sound and these things are cyclical and we we have seen them come and go but there's there is a hindrance to healing when we are compromising the truth rather than speaking the truth of the word of God so we see the indicators of brokenness in society we see some of the hindrances to healing in our society let's move thirdly to the path to restoration what can we do to make a difference in this day in which we live what can we do to bring restoration into our churches and into our communities let me say that keeping the faith is not guaranteed many churches today as we've been learning are drifting instead of continuing so God says it's required of stewards that a man be found faithful and we want to be faithful in a few areas if we're going to see restoration letter a we want to continue in the truth now look back to the text we started with 2nd Timothy 3 and he says in verse 13 evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse deceiving and being deceived but continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and has been assured of knowing of whom thou hast learned them can I suggest that maybe what some of us need to do is go back to what we learned in Sunday school when we were 10 and maybe even go back to the Sunday school teacher and preacher that you had when you were 10 he said well mine blew it he fell the ministry I'm sorry but most of you had a faithful pastor and I think one of the things that grieves my heart the most is to see a faithful soul-winning pastor who preaches the Word of God he loves the family he keeps their marriage together he helps the teenager get to Bible College maybe and they just did all the work they pours into them and then some 19 or 20 year old gets on the internet and after about three hours of watching some internet sensation he now knows more than a pastor who helped him come to faith and what is the answer to that God says continue in the things which thou hast learned and been assured of knowing of whom thou has to learn them you know it says whose faith follow considering the end of their conversation let me just say for those of you that have had pastors that have been faithful and they stayed married and their life was a testimony you ought to thank God for that and the vast majority do and we thank the Lord for that so we must continue first of all in the truth if we're gonna restore our churches in our country we must continue in the truth and I would say along this line a couple of things number one be discerning in your reading and in your podcasts you know you've heard it before garbage in garbage out well as you're reading some of the things that are out today you better read with your Bible in one hand in that book in the other hand be so very careful I am absolutely amazed sometimes somebody will put something on social media and they'll put who it's quoted by and I'll just look at who this person is and and you'll find that these are the one one quote as I mentioned last year was a quote by the president of fuller who would had just recently apologized to the Mormon Church for their comments that they'd said that they were falster and yet they're being quoted by a young Independent Baptist who doesn't even really know the person that he's quoting and and and and we need to be discerning looking I think it really matters who's influencing your mind in mind beloved believe not every spirit but try the spirits to see whether they are of God because many false prophets are gone out in the world I look forward to doing some reading this summer but I've been tell you I'm starting right with the Word of God that's where the focus will be and I'm gonna read some of the perhaps some of the other older authors and I may eventually get into something of the newer authors but so oftentimes people are just parroting things and and the saying things that really have not been proven scripturally may I say secondly seek biblical preaching I think a conference like this I I think some some fellowships are they're just so controlling and and and so intimidating and such that it's a little bit stifling depending on which one you're with there's a lot of peer pressure with them and so forth but if you can go to something that's not hyper political and it's just great preaching and fellowship you need that sometimes and and in your own church you need revival meetings and and and and be careful with what you're ingesting and and make sure you're getting under sound preaching no for me maybe I'm just getting a little older now but for me the biggest changes in my life have taken place at a preaching meeting where I came to the altar made a decision for Jesus Christ I learned some stuff on the internet maybe but I'm changed by preaching right and so stay under the sound of good preaching second Timothy four and then number three model godly living discern your readings seek biblical preaching and model godly living as we see in second Timothy 3:10 so if we're gonna see a change made we must continue in the truth and let me say this let her be we must continue with biblical tradition I love that word tradition don't you I love it because some people bristle at it and I like to watch people bristle makes me so happy and just to help you bristle it a little more let's remember that the word is actually in the Bible therefore brethren stand fast and hold the traditions which he have been taught whether by word or by sword now I understand I understand you want to have your preferences and in your methods and I totally get that but the fact of the matter is that there are traditions that are biblical traditions that should not be forsaken how's this one soul-winning so that's just the term I get tickle with these you know 22 years did you know that Sunday schools not even in the Bible really I mean I've been to the home of Robert rakes in England I know where the Sunday school started I know why it started I'd know generally how many kids were in Sunday school look at and I still love Sunday school doesn't everything doesn't have to be from the Bible to be a good method we get that but but just to avoid those little argumentations for the sake of time let's just say that soul-winning actually is in the Bible go into the highways and hedges and compel them to come in where'd it go I don't know how else to be a faithful soul winner without the word go and it is a tradition and it's a biblical tradition and we need to stay with that biblical tradition you so many churches grow by swapping members and and this type of thing that's unattractive to me you're just getting that guy's problems in often times how about this how about this one how about this about the tradition of assembling and so much the what more I don't know a lot of our members are here I hate to say this but very few churches tonight or have it this this era are having Sunday night church they say well are you saying you're better because you have said I didn't I'm not saying we're better than you could have Sunday night and not be better I'm just saying the Bible teaches were to assemble and so much the more the assembling of the believers is a good tradition to keep and we're seeing less and less of that how about this tradition how about this one preaching you know where you actually get up and just preach the Word of God how about this biblical worship Psalms hymns and spiritual songs so if we're gonna see a difference made we must continue in the truth continue with biblical tradition and let me say this let's continue with grace but grow in grace in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ I think I've touched on this maybe at earlier today but let me just say this again very quickly angry fundamentalism is not attractive it's not attractive now I'm a fundamentalist I don't use that term out door-knocking frankly but with a bunch of fundamental Baptists I don't mind letting you know you know and I don't mind letting our church know the fundamentals our core class every quarter I teach those 40 or 50 new members what is a fundamentalist right and I tell them if you go to basketball camp again to learn the fundamentals our fundamentals aren't I give them the fundamentals I don't mind the term but angry fundamentalism often isn't really about doctrine it's not really about what we define fundamentalism as and it's definitely not attractive toxic leadership produces oftentimes a very angry culture Christ centered leadership produces love and joy can I just pause here to say folks have whatever standards Lord wants you to have you know but whatever you do make your church a place that has the sweetness of Jesus all over it a place that is loving and kind a place where people do feel welcome and it doesn't matter what they wore in and it doesn't matter if they can't find the book of Ephesians it really just shouldn't matter they should be welcome I stand up here every Sunday morning and I look I see the ex-con sitting right next to the cop and neither of knows the other ones which I'd look over here and we'll see you know people from every kind of a sinful lifestyle you could imagine and we keep the pulpit hot enough that they have a chance to get saved but we also keep the relationships friendly enough that they know that Jesus loves them grow in grace and then let me say this not only continue with grace but we need to continue with vision I really believe sometimes one of the issues we're dealing with is that our memories of the past are greater than our vision for the future you know you get around you know and people I want remember this remember that and a lot of times what what younger preachers are looking for is they're just looking for something exciting that's growing that's happy and if all we're doing is complaining and talking about the good old days they're gonna go well that's good that there were some good old days but what's going on now what's your vision they're looking for you to be what David was in the last hour the man that leads the charge they're looking for you to have that new ministry that new vision that that new way to reach a neighborhood that new way to see revival they're looking for that leadership and we've got to have that vision where there's no vision the people perish have a let me just challenge you have a vision for your city I'll never forget driving down the road with dr. Lee Robertson years ago and we're down here in Lancaster Boulevard him and brother Robertson said to me he said I'm brother Chapel and I think we're running 200 he said you need to pass through your city here pass through the city and I thought about that for a moment on oh man I'd like to Pastor like my family and you know I hope a few of the people at the church like me pastor who said he said put your picture on every gospel tract for this for your gospel tract put your picture right there and survey the city go around find out what church they go to and get all this information and and he said pastor the city they need to know yeah they need to know and I honestly couldn't grasp what he was saying but you know 33 years later as we've just been faithful as we've had the privilege to lead a couple of city managers to Christ and council members to Christ and as we've had the opportunity to lead many police officers and as we've just kind of hung around the neighborhoods soul-winning and bus ministry and serving and you know I can't go to the mall without seeing people that go to the church used to go to the church loved us hate us and there's an influence that's being made and and you've got to have a vision that dr. leigh robertson talked about for your city and it's not for yourself it's so that you can point them to the lord jesus christ and all i pray that you'll have that vision and then nehemiah said you see the distress that we're now in how jerusalem lieth waste and the gates that are over burned with fire come and let us build up the wall of jerusalem that we be no more a reproach may I say secondly have a vision for your preaching you know what I'm gonna do this summer amongst many other things I'm going to take some time to line out my sermons for the fall and I'm excited for that man I want to come back to our people after I have some sometime a vacation and study and I just want to preach away and refresh and have truth for them that will help them and you need to have a vision for that to grow in your preaching to be a better preacher can I just say something very sincerely preachers you're not gonna grow the church preaching the same old brushed off sermons I've been here for 33 years there's one sermon that I intentionally preached the same sermon three times Philippians 1:27 each time we dedicated an auditorium I have not preached the same sermon twice other than that it takes time in the word and labor in the word but get a vision for your preaching your sermon series your your books of the Bible whatever it is number of three get a vision for the development of your church setting in order the things that are wanting somebody's got to say what's broken here what needs to be fixed here what needs to start here look at someone's got to realize the bathrooms got to get painted the lawns the the landscaping needs to happen someone's got to have a vision for the facilities for the people for the preaching and I want to challenge you that instead of simply just complaining about the culture that we can bring change and we can bring change as we are faithful to the truth and following biblical tradition and growing in grace and having an enlarged vision for our church God can still bless your church and I mean right Anna Laodicean Church age he can raise up a great great solling Church and that's one thing we need to pray Lord renew my vision for the work that you've called me to do now no one would have ever guessed the change that we've seen in our culture the Protestant majority that dominated the American culture through much of our history is now below 50% I remember 33 years ago when I came here Ronald Reagan was the president there was no such thing as social media back then when you hated a preacher you had to write letters to all the other preachers no I remember years ago some gala Midwest he got mad at brother Hiles and he was writing letters to everybody I'll never forget that I get this big honking letter and I thought to myself his people's tithe money paid for this come on and we were having our open house day and we were running about 400 in church and I saw that yeah I kind of got just I put it in my desk and I just kind of disgusted me because you know I I remember talking to brother Robertson brother Malone and some of these and I talked to him about man one day I'm gonna I'm gonna be a preacher and I'm gonna cross that bridge into the ministry and I'm gonna be a part of this great independent Baptist movement I read the book the 10 largest Sunday schools in America eight of the ten were independent Baptists and I couldn't wait to cross that bridge boy is gonna come into the camaraderie of the fellowship and and right as I was getting on the bridge somebody burned it here I mean here I am I'm in my 20s our church is running four or five hundred we're having our open house Sunday and now I start getting mail and all these preachers telling me this guy said this guy is wrong on repentance this guy is wrong on that note they're all just writing these letters all the time against each other I thought what is this I'll never forget I took that one pile of stuff and I just threw it over the corner I thought man I am NOT gonna sit here and read this I'm going soul-winning and I knocked on 1171 doors that week and we had a thousand and twelve in church that Sunday and over 70 saved and some of you spend so much time at the Internet I've never been to a chat room I don't want to go to a chat room I don't want to talk to you on a chatroom you want to talk to me be a man and get on the phone there is no integrity and calling someone out on your little Twitter account little Twinkie I don't have time for that everywhere I go so say hey brother Chaplin it's hard to tell you about this guy's been been riding ISM doing bunch of stuff about yeah you know I don't even I'm trying to have a happy life here gentlemen you're gonna have me come preach for you take take me take me hunting fishing have a steak do something happy don't tell me the blog you just read you get right off flames it's gotta tell you about this thing I just read boy that's so bad about yeah you know what you ought to turn that stinking computer off and go soul-winning get a vision for your ministry now you can sit there and talk to slap you Jack seventy-seven all day long if you want to and we got these guys sitting in their mother's basement eating Cheerios trying to form all these philosophies influencing the world I'm gonna be honest with you I'll tell you who I let influence my life men who prayed and went soul winning and stayed right licking if they got off dr. Lior morally I didn't want their influence on me but I tried to find guys that were building to work the Bible way and I wanted to get around him I wanted to talk to him I'm just saying we've got to get back to this place where we're saying I want to keep the main thing the main thing but anyways I I just didn't mean to say all that but it is get a little punchy on Wednesday morning I'll be honest with you let me get back to my notes here let's see Ronald Reagan was the president there was no such thing as social media that just hmm just kind of lit a fire there a little bit but when I came here 33 years ago I would go up to the hill right up above this Lake Palmdale and look over this city and I would pray I mean we had 12 people I had no salary you know I it took me a long time to find the phone at the church it would ring and I'd look and look and then stop I couldn't find it it was a happy day when I found it then I got the great idea that we'd put the phone at our house because I didn't have a secretary and my wife she's such a godly lady she said I'd be fine we'll have the phone in our house and and and so she'd answered Lancaster Baptist Church and guys would want money and they cuss at her and yell at her and all that and and just we were just that's where we were in the ministry and we just spent time for the rules waving at me over here so somebody waves your way back and I'm wrapping it up for the room but I would go spend time on that hill in prayer and I would say Lord would you do something here that only you could do would you help me to preach and lead me to people who need to be saved and lately I've been going back up to that hill because we are desperate for God in this nation and in this city and in this church and I don't know what's distracted you or burdened you but I want to encourage you to sharpen your vision while you're here and get back to the main thing of reaching people for Jesus Christ and let God use and bless your life once again renew that vision and let God bring restoration to your life into your ministry father thank you for these wonderful men and women and the privilege to share some time with them and lord I pray that you would bless their ministries in this confused culture may we not run to the excesses of wrong doctrine or may we not it just insist on doing everything like we did it in 1957 but Lord can we just come to the cross this week and get the vision you have and then go home and reach souls help us with it Lord I pray in Jesus name Amen brother rule fellas do we have time for the panel good wonderful 15 minutes awesome guys on the panel come up here we'll talk about this a little bit and thank you for letting me finish my lesson there and I want to welcome some men up here to our panel so come on up whoever's on the panel come up here real quick I have a list of it who's on the panel brother Shane Lewis is on the panel brother Jeff am spa man I should have talked less these guys these wise men here we'd get this table situated for you and for the Norris or the gage come on up here thank you for being with us pastor Jeff am spot from the Heritage Baptist Church in Woodbridge Virginia brother Shane Lewis but I seen I just forgot the name of your church Summerville this church in in Alabama brother Mike Norris from Franklin Road Baptist Church in Tennessee and dr. John Getz is the executive vice president of West Coast Baptist College and I have a few questions here if you have a few others I'll go for those as well these were sent in and we'll try to cover them for maybe 20 minutes or so they're all here okay great thank you all right let me let me start with maybe a tough one and I'll throw this to brother Shane Lewis here this is common though how do you respond to a gay person that visits the church they they want to interact in some way how do you prepare the congregation for that and then how I would add to that as far as presenting the gospel to them and so forth as well well that's a tough question right off the bat so I want to introduce myself I'm slappy Jack 7u7 [Laughter] I really would tell my people to love them like they would love anyone else they meant and the adulterer that comes in or someone of that nature that we love them we introduce them to Jesus Christ and that Jesus Christ is one to my people Jesus Christ is going to change them and he is going to transform their heart and they will see their sin as their discipled and we're by no means gonna condone it and that we share the love of Christ and part of sharing the love of Christ is speaking the truth and Trust me over the past couple of years of my own life having a doctor I want a doctor that was gonna tell me the truth that's really no way that was loving on his part and so it is for us as well and so the the love is in the Gospel message itself though that's also where the offense is so we have to prepare for both I would add quickly to that question every one of you need to make sure that your church Constitution and your statement of faith very clearly describe what you believe is godly behavior and described and I've had to say this too in Sacramento to homosexual legislature that we don't have just these philosophies just for the lbgtq movement we believe in moral purity for everyone and and we didn't invent this stuff just because of you guys and put it into your statement of faith and that and then when we have the core class we used to baptize people in boom they were members now we baptize them and they're part of our church family no one's a legal member until they come to the core class they receive that full statement of faith and they sign that they agree and that that has given us I think some good provision there and I would agree with brother Lewis that everyone needs to be welcomed and everyone needs to be lovingly confronted with the gospel of Jesus Christ and then you just let the gospel be the divider you don't have to worry about being the divider from that point yes CLA has a great they'll send you to get ahead of the game as he said with the Church Constitution articles of faith they have a statement that you could add to the Constitution along those lines it's perfectly ordered excellent okay here's a question I'm going to ask brother Norris how do you get unmovable and comfortable members out of a state of comfort to spiritual activity just what are some thoughts on that well I thought his question was tough slapjack 77 got 50 followers I want you to know right there yeah yes today of course you address is somewhat this is a state we're in as we near the return of the Lord Jesus Christ there is a spirit of apostasy and that is all the indicators are there i pastor a church in the south and church that's been there done that got the t-shirt for and I would say that one thing that I try to do is and I even jotted some things down from your session that I'm gonna take home just keep the pulpit on fire and don't draw back from that a strong pulpit in the South in our movement I should say as expected and I think sometimes we we draw away from preaching the truth in in even in regards to the sin of us mentioned there just a moment ago but keeping people involved we have a we have a workers night I can't think of the name of it every fall in September where we recruit we actually set up tables for all of our ministries where people can go out and ask questions about certain ministries we have we preach toward the needs of ministries that need to be filled we're actually revitalizing some what our bus ministry right now and different things our children's ministries and so we're constantly on especial in Sunday night's we address more service oriented type messages and we try to keep people interested and zealous about being filled to the Spirit of God we preach messages along those lines for the purpose of soul-winning and trying to keep our soul winning night recruited in full and that's just some of the things I'm thinking of and I would add to that on the sole wing if you have someone's been faithful for a long time and they're not as faithful maybe you or maybe a key member or staff member just ask them hey would you make some visits with me on Saturday maybe have some lunch with them and just just say how's everything going you're doing all right sometimes people are under something you don't know about and so you have the pulpit ministry you have also a personal ministry of just ministering to them in that way and sometimes that means a lot too I had one more thing too that we have to to emphasize spiritual so when he pushes one in the spring and one the fall actually have two weeks of aggressive soul-winning we go so in every week about two weeks of aggressive door knocking two salaries that are blitzes that we knock on thousands and thousands of doors and it are it is our goal to knock on every door of our city every year we don't always get that done it's the city of about 200,000 now but we go after that and so that keeps people and is constant reminder to them of our purpose and our go amen I want to ask brother am spa what advice would you give to young pastors trying to and this is sort of a broad question but you can jump into it trying to abstain from wrong forms of worship and keeping truth in the church kind of what I was probably speaking about just the pull to the left that tends to lessen things down this seems to be a question of someone that they want to be effective but they don't want to go down a wrong path would you maybe give some guideposts that you've tried to follow in building the church but but not getting astray philosophically well I would say first of all that the time that you spend in the Word of God is going to be essential to having your senses exercised to discern both good and evil so many times we look to human authors rather than the divine author to get our standards of worship and I think anytime that we do that we're on a very slippery slope I mean when I read a book like Andy Stanley's book deep and wide would be an example of that and he advocated in one section of that how he actually uses secular music to set the mood for his worship services I'm confused by that but I intuitively though I i know intuitively in my gut that that's wrong because you know the bible says that the way we should allow the word of Christ to dwell in us richly one of the avenues is through music so it has to be biblically based to be a true element of worship will see the more familiarity I have with my Bible the more I'm able to weed out things that are just intuitively wrong I'll have a fifth sense about that because of God's Word dwelling in me so I mean it seems very trite to me but I think the more time I spend in the Bible them and the less not not to say that human authors can't help but they could only help to the degree that they help me more fully understand God's Word amen and the more that I fully understand God's Word I'll know intuitively what's right or what's wrong for me and my congregation also I would say this that in corporate worship we have to be careful because even there we what we don't want to have a level of offense where we impede somebody's worship because we've crossed a line in a particular area so even though something may not be as a direct issue of morality there might be a particular song that may even bless you in your CD but you would not use that in your corporate worship because you know that that might be offensive to a significant segment of yours so you have to be not only sensitive to what God wants you to do but I think you also have to be sensitive in certain areas of Christian Liberty Paul said do you have Liberty keep it to yourself you know because there are some people who have embraces matters of conscience things that even God Himself is not enjoyed and so for those particular people you why would you want to have your corporate worship service an offensive thing that impedes worship that's a hole that defeats the whole purpose of coming together so I would want to make sure in those that's why we've maintained a very conservative corporate worship stance is because even though there are some people that are advocating for it usually the people that are advocating for you to go less our people who don't really give a rip about how other people feel about matters that's and that's very true and I have a question here for brother Goetsch and bretch this is an interesting question as a church member if you know of another church member that's trouble with something maybe wanting to leave Church but they've not talked to the pastor is it is it your duty to let the pastor know about the situation well I think the best thing in that case is to take that person to the pastor amen and help him have that conversation good and as a friend to that person in the church if they've come to you obviously they have some level of respect or friendship or relationship with you maybe trust in you maybe even asking you to keep it confidential which you shouldn't do in that sense with the pastor but because they've come to you God's given you an influence in their life and so use that influence steward it wisely but say you know if I were in your case I'd want to talk to the pastor and I think we should go talk to him about Amen yeah that's a great biblical answer to here's a here's one and I'll throw this out and maybe brother Lewis and I'll try to help with this one also many in the room have children who are ministering or attending churches that are different on in different ends of the spectrum than you preached on Monday they're following after either Calvinism or grace but not the full gospel of grace what advice do you give to dads to impact sons to remain faithful in these areas I've actually thought one year of having just a panel where we discussed actually the the dads with sons issue because there's a lot of pastors here who have sons in the ministry and some of the ministries are not the same philosophy of the ministry of the dad here's a quick nutshell of what I would say and then I'm gonna ask for the Lois to help with this also first of all with respect to the young men in the ministry some there are some that are reactionary to maybe some experiences they've had and and their their spirit might not be good in this leftward move in there some and intent they tend to be the ones that that'll go a little farther and sometimes a little faster with this and and so those are harder to deal with there are some young men I believe that in their own mind they've become convinced that some of these trends and some of these terms are helpful and so on and so forth they're not necessarily upset with their college their dad their church that type of thing but they've they're doing some of these different methods I would say for me number one I want to see a younger preacher wherever he is in this spectrum have a tender heart towards the generation before him towards the Word of God living peaceable with all men then I would say as a dad you have a responsibility to love unconditionally your son and and to let them know that you love them and but you also have a place spiritually all through their upbringing and even as they're in ministry to teach them the biblical principles on the issues as you see them and to not not hold back now there's a point where you're gonna have to have discernment you have a son who's in his 30s you're gonna dish that out as the Lord's giving you the opportunity and you're gonna have wisdom with that but I would say in in in many ways if you have a child that's serving Jesus Christ that you should be thankful for that okay whether you're comfortable to everything is doing that may not be the case but you should be thankful if you have a child that serving Lord maintain fellowship with them I actually could tell you some dads who've broken fellowship with their own sons over things and to me how sad that they don't have Christmas with their own grandchildren you know there's a there's a place where you need to have a godly relationship with your family and and then you can determine the level of ecclesiastical fellowship as the Lord leads you in that area but I would say that you need to be true to your convictions you need to stay true to pastoring your church I do see a lot of dads that change because of their kids and I would say to the dads you hold to the convictions that God gave you while you still love your son who's reading this or doing that so I could get way into the weeds on that but we don't have a ton of time but brother Louis what would you say maybe not just dads but you know younger pastors as well but just shed some light on that well I would say on the issue with dads that I know only from my experience with my own father who was pastor that I was one of those that knew it all you know and my dad was very patient I would just say to the fathers you understand that you are really proud your relationally the last bastion for him to listen to so by all means do not cut him off amen and leave that door open and love covers a multitude of sins and as they grow they'll change they'll listen you look for the thank you in raising children at 35 never at 15 and the same is true in ministry you tend to look for the thank-yous at 40 and 45 that's really when they start to finally come to where they're really grounded and then the other concern often is our people how are people going to perceive this your people know that that is your son that that is your child and they also know that you're not compromising the Word of God you're not condoning what's going on so don't you know an old adage is you're never as smart as you think you are and people are never as dumb as you think they are and your people they see that and they they have much more respect for you having compassion and love for your son mm-hmm then they would for you to make a sacrificial unnecessarily lamb out of him to prove your point in a larger setting so give give your people some credit there as well now if your son thinks that you're putting undue pressure on him because of your fear of man and because of your fear of your peers that's got a backfire with your son just like that it has to be truly a godly concern based upon biblical convictions that you can actually show him Bible verses for and and those are the levels of the discussions you're going to have but I would just advocate for loving them through that time we have anymore time for the rule all right let me try one more question I'm going to try to try to be faithful here just let's see because someone's gonna email me you didn't answer my question so let's see here I'm gonna throw this one towards brother catch real quick just how do you incorporate the Bible biblical perspective on issues like abortion gay marriage transgender and transgenderism and so forth in your church's teaching I'm gonna say one thing about that then I'm gonna ask you to comment on it we actually are taking this summer we're having all of those subjects taught in a full-length sermon because I think sometimes in in my ministry maybe in your ministry we hit these topics quickly and but we don't really give the apologetic for it and we leave people going okay he said that but I need something that I can explain more and so I would be an advocate for a contemporary issues series here and there that takes the entire hour for that subject but brother gets go into that a little bit more because you're dealing with a lot of young people that are asking these questions all the time so well the children of Issachar had an understanding of the times which we need and I think this week we've gotten some of that understanding of the times but the rest of the verse has to know what is a lot to do and that's where you have to go to the Word of God and apply the Word of God to the issue and just what you said a moment ago you have to be willing to confront air with truth you and so whether it's a sermon whether it's a teaching forum whatever that might be but we have to address these subjects and the Bible addresses them all God hasn't left any stone unturned there's nothing in our culture today that God hasn't dealt with in his word at least in principle and so we have the word of truth God didn't leave us without an answer he's not in heaven saying oops I forgot to put that in the Bible so we have to study and know God's word and know how to apply it to these these cultural issues amen well I want to just say that these men are a blessing in my own personal life we're gonna have to close the panel but we're not closing the discussion and any one of them I would recommend to you on any of these questions and I hope you'll have those dialogues along the way but would you thank them for jumping up here and spending a few minutes with us [Applause]

Channel: Lancaster Baptist Church

Views: 5,022

Rating: 4.7402596 out of 5

Keywords: lancaster baptist church, lancaster baptist, baptist church, paul, chappell, paul chappell, pastor paul chappell, spiritual, leadership, conference

Id: CVD5O8EfikU

Length: 87min 48sec (5268 seconds)

Published: Tue Jun 18 2019