'Our Thing' Podcast Episode 9: Would You Kill Paul? | Sammy "The Bull" Gravano

new york 1982. i don't know if it's one o'clock 1 30 2 o'clock in the morning i said listen bro i've seen enough had enough i got skaggs was over by the table i saw i guarantee you that check you didn't catch it no no that check is gone bro that it'll bounce this whole thing is just fraud it's a [ __ ] fraud bro they made a fool of us no no samuel c's he's a millionaire i don't give a [ __ ] if he's a millionaire he's just [ __ ] nuts too so anyway [Music] they go to him and they tell them the night is over you got we're going to close he tells them no no i'll tell you when we're going to close we'll close tomorrow morning 7 eight in the morning i got more people coming i got this i got that and they he sees skaggs and some of the people coming over to me the table i'm sitting at and he tells michael the bat that guy over there everybody seems to go to him throw him out i don't want him here he wants to throw me out for the first time ever sammy the bull gravano tells his story this is our thing this guy comes over to me what's your name he tells me i said the last time i met you don't you remember i met you no i don't remember nothing i asked you what your name is i go like this with my hands i want my guys to sit down and i do not want something to erupt in this place it's a [ __ ] gold mine we can get through this i just go like this in other words my guys know when i do that calm the [ __ ] down so i said my name is sammy we met before but that doesn't matter maybe i'm a little drunk no i'm not drunk well listen i understand they told us that it's going to close we go we all got to leave i'm not leaving i had a little bit of like i had enough of this [ __ ] i tell them no bro take it from me you're gonna leave you're gonna leave it's time for the place to close it's a business you they tell you you gotta go you gotta go it's over you had a whole night you had fun there's [ __ ] all over the place you have people eating with their hands and stuff for food all over the [ __ ] place the place is a mess get the [ __ ] out i don't wanna i don't i don't i got him up to my eyebrows already i have enough of him [Music] he leaves and walks away from me and walks to where he is he goes into a bed gets a bag and he gets something out of the bag a piece of metal it's not a gun or anything like that he walks over to me and he says i'm a hero and he's got this medal like a war medal or something [Music] i said i mean i'm not interested in that and he throws it at me and he like bounces right off my chest three of my guys spring to their [ __ ] feet i said i said sit down michael pulls him away from me right away i said michael's got bags over there go through those bags i said he says i went through the bags already what's in him he's got a gun i took it so it's in my waistband good you got no other weapons in that no okay i'm gonna walk out of here because i think i'm inciting this [ __ ] thing i'm making it worse i'm gonna walk out tell him he left the place is closed you have to stop skaggs put the [ __ ] lights on so that the whole thing stops stop the music stop everything it's over i'm gonna be right outside you and michael or hook if something breaks out come down and call me right away i'm going to walk out with four guys i'll i'll be right back in i leave we're parked a half a block away we're watching the place the place is emptying out now it started when it got to maybe 100 people maybe there was 50 left at that point and they're leaving i get a signal that they're gone there's only my people there [Music] michael comes over he called you everything under the sun good good remember luca brazier and the godfather i told mike yeah when he went to go meet the other side yeah yeah yeah that part stay close to him like you're his friend bad mouth me tell him you don't like me hate me i think who i am stay close let her open getting his get in his head see what he's thinking what he's saying i want to know all right the night is over friday morning joe skaggs comes and he tells me he's insulted that we close the place he's insulted about things that you said he wants to buy the whole building the disco the building everything he knows your office is down he wants you out he wants to buy you out wants to buy me up yeah tell him it's not for sale boy sammy let me just tell you what he said what he wants to buy me out yeah but he wants to give you a million dollars to get out [Music] wants to give me a million dollars yeah now the building is right back then maybe 250 300 000 the disco could have been worth that much in itself she took her maybe five six hundred thousand if you got somebody who wanted to buy the old things he's had a million dollars more than the building is worth more than the club is worth that million dollar my greed bells started to ring they went off [Music] tell them i'm not interested in the money if the number was a hell of a lot more i might be interested and i don't want to talk to them use guys talk you talk with them skegz there's a dialogue going on it goes up to i think a million 350 me or five whatever it was i said okay you'd have to go to lawyers and bring lawyers in and whatever this is not [Music] he agrees by monday late afternoon early night we agreed to a number and we we agreed to a meeting is going to happen for him to buy this whole thing and they're telling me that they're showing me articles that he's legitimately wealthy as the shipping company he has all this [ __ ] he's got and he does own a [ __ ] plane now friday comes and goes saturday i have made guys from three different clubs i'm really the other side of brooklyn come looking for me hey pal ally shades one of the guys he was with the genovese family he was a made guy at this particular time he became a captain and he said sammy bro we got the club over here yeah yeah i know i don't remember the name of the club yeah i know why would you do something like that last night what did i do what are you talking about he said we had a nice little line outside the place and uh a helicopter come out and the guy with a bull on is screaming through the bullhorn don't go to this club go to the plaza suite [Music] i started laughing i said bro do you think i would do that this [ __ ] nut came to the place wants to buy the place i guarantee it's this [ __ ] maniac who's doing it i wouldn't do that you think i would fly around with a [ __ ] helicopter telling people where to go to a club to dance come on bro [Music] this is how it starts and it gets [ __ ] crazy three different clubs three different clubs were controlled by mom people are coming to me now i gotta go see him i go see him frank you went around with a helicopter yeah yeah this is the best club or you got it this is what you gotta do you gotta advertise you gotta do this so i you can't do that they're my friends you can't do that this isn't czechoslovakia this is brooklyn new york you can't do that you can't do it now if we're gonna make a deal we gotta go with lawyers we gotta do it very quiet we gotta do this that and the other thing he says i could give you the money i could give you some money under the table case [Music] good good i'll take six hundred thousand under the table and will leave us a balance of eight nine hundred thousand i'll even give you a little break if you can do that he could do it he meets with my lawyers i wish i remember the place kiss his lawyers were talking to buy kiss radio station whatever it is that's a big station this guy really is loaded and his daughters lawyers are in some sort of negotiation it's crazy it's getting crazier and crazier and crazier every single day now he meets with my lawyers and right in the meeting i mean he don't even try to keep it quiet i'm going gonna give sammy 600 000 in gold goes to czechoslovakia with me on the plane i fly it in i do this he brings in an army truck and we unload whoa whoa whoa i'm not doing that what the [ __ ] is what do you think this is a james bond movie i'm not doing that bro now first of all i'm not going to check this rock here with you that's number one or you i'm not getting on your plane and i'm not coming in with no army truck to pick the [ __ ] gold up he makes an appointment down in manhattan in a bank a foreign bank i'm so [ __ ] twisted now on this money i go to this bank with my brother-in-law we have two suitcases each i want to go in there and walk out with five six hundred thousand dollars of gold and i think i lost my mind doing this [ __ ] thing this guy made me crazy they would have gave us the money the gold but they wanted us to sign documents and papers so this is supposed to be money under the table i'm not going to sign no documents and papers long story short we walk out with nothing one insane story after the other is going on the meeting with my lawyer he don't show up something happens this happens the check by the way from that night in the plaza suite bounced we never got that money i'm having enough for him i'm growling at him every once in a while when he talks to me i don't like the way he talks to me i don't like the way it talks period and uh he comes around with a little pack of people all the time like some of them are bodyguards some of them are girls some of them i'm not crazy about this guy at all i i don't even like them forget about crazy about them i don't like them at all it's just like a complete cycle [Music] i get a call my sister worked for me in my office and she says that guy that you're dealing with this nut frank field yeah he's in the place he came in our office and he told everybody to leave it's his building and he has people breaking the wall where the staircase going up is so that from the office you can just go into this back stairwell that goes up into his place and he's making it like fort knox and he's took over your office he's sitting in your office i said that's a little too far i said eddie let's go back to the office there's a problem i tell my sister tell all the girls and everybody to go home just go home get out of there get out of here don't listen to what he says he's fired just get up and leave don't argue with him leave i'm afraid he'll lie but i hurt one and i'm gonna do something so i go there i walk in there the girls are gone he comes to the door he opens the door for me to come in and he says come with me to my office and he's walking to the back that's my office he makes the turn into my office and me and my bundle already are following right behind him he gets behind my desk he opens the drawer and he pulls out an uzi machine gun my brother-in-law is dark-skinned he was as white as a [ __ ] t-shirt he we thought we were getting hit told us to sit down i sat down my whole body tightened up waiting for these bullets to come at me i thought for sure i'm dead my brother thought that so and he was talking it gave me a second to think if i was going to get killed he's got to pull the trigger he didn't pull the trigger he's talking so i started talking first frank what are you doing bro we're going to meet with the lawyers tomorrow we're gonna straighten this out there's a couple of little [ __ ] hurdles i mean come on bro put that down what are you doing you know i mean i know you you're aggravated i mean [Music] you sure you you people you people those grease balls us this as daddy's calling me all right all right you know we sometimes we're a little aggressive i know we made a mistake i apologize but put that down come on bro we're gonna talk with the lawyers tomorrow everything is going to be cool you take mark my words we got this you're fixing the place that's good i love the the way you're going to go right up into the place from here that's great that's a great idea [Music] he tells us to leave me and eddie get up and we're walking through the hall i'm still tight as a drum i'm thinking maybe he'll shoot me from the back but he don't shoot i open up the door as i'm opening the door to go out i says to eddie get all my guys tell them to meet me in docs [Music] sammy would you shut the [ __ ] up i'm not asking for your advice tell everybody to meet me now what are you gonna do i'm gonna kill him i'm gonna kill him tonight now i don't want i'm not asking you for advice keep your [ __ ] mouth shut and go make some calls now go i don't have time to go to pull cast atlanta or do anything or even to title i don't want to involve nothing in this i get my whole crew and then some i tell michael the bat when i'm gonna kill him you stand near the door you're the bouncer at the door you start screaming to everybody oh my god they have guns so go upstairs make everybody run grab the door and hold it closed huck you do this louie stymie get around the side of the building when he comes out the office and walks around the corner and is coming towards the door for the plaza sweet me and eddie will be standing right there the signal will be when i say frank how you doing buddy you two guys run out and start shooting we'll all have guns you nikki cowboy you pull up with a car as soon as this is done the shooters will jump in the car you take off with them another guy he pulls up everybody dumped their guns in there [Music] he's going to walk with a pack of people whoever makes a move after the shooters move towards us or towards them kill them i don't give a [ __ ] who they are kill them that night everybody was in place crash cars getaway cars because that took the guns to dump that car took the shooters michael the bat hawk controlling the in and out of going in the plaza suite he came around the corner with a small entourage of guys and people and women he was in front of the pack me and eddie were about 25 30 feet away from the door leaning against the parked car as soon as he got about 30 40 feet away from me he turned and looked at me i said hey buddy what's up he took a step or two towards me with a grin on his face when the two shooters came out they killed him in a matter of seconds he got a multitude of shots in him blew both of his eyes out blew the top of his head off hit him in his chest he was gone instantly [Music] a huge puddle of blood dripping down immediately every man there went for their gun hour guys my guys looking at their guys they didn't know what the [ __ ] way to run they wouldn't they didn't have guns they didn't try to have guns and if they had them they didn't try to pull them out they would have got hit in two seconds the girls just didn't even again flop and didn't know which way to go in a matter of minutes the cops were there pulling out of squad cars pulling out yellow tape putting yellow tape all around the crime scene some people got away some people didn't even get away me and eddie didn't get away we were the last guys to move the car came and took the hit team and left the car just missed being stopped when all my guys me and all my guys put the guns in that car that car disappeared so me and eddie were stuck the reason why they showed up so quickly the night before there was some sort of a racial incident the cops were afraid there was going to be racial problems so they were cruising all around the neighborhood i guess the second they got this call they notified the police cars and that's why they would ask so quickly yellow tape and cops all around i gave michael the bat to sign unlock the door go back upstairs cops wouldn't let anybody move people outside standing on the sidewalk they were looking for witnesses and whatever the [ __ ] they were doing i said let's just try to walk away slow we pulled away from the car and started moving the cop said you just got to stand where you stand to freeze we froze a girl a couple of girls but one of them they parked their car in the parking lot i guess they were gonna go to the plaza suite just before they hit one of them start talking loud as she's walking towards this barrier sammy i parked the car are you coming so the guy said who's that i says that's my girl she just parked the car we we got out before you know and she parked the car and i walked over here did you see anything he hadn't have a clue who the [ __ ] i was i said no i didn't see none she came right through the barry come on it's oh my god something happened here what what the hell is going on did you see anything no we just pulled in that was there already oh my god she carried on like an actress the cop says okay guys you and her and my brother you just couldn't leave i put my arm around her i kissed her like it was my girl i said i'll never forget that she said you know my uncle of course i know your uncle this is what i would do and i think the worldview you know i i hope i got you out of this listen i really wasn't even in it i wasn't going to tell her that i was involved in this thing i'm sad jax i actually walked into the [ __ ] thing i don't even know what the [ __ ] happened so i wasn't in trouble but what you tried to do you thought i did this right yeah i did i didn't but what you're trying to do i really appreciate it never forget it someday i'll see your uncle soon and uh i owe you big time just for your attempt but i had nothing to do with it i wouldn't admit to nothing we got to our car she gave me another kiss this was a real kiss and i let her go that opened up the door to a multitude of investigations a bunch of things happened i did get 350 000 in cash under the table before we concluded the deal we did have another quarter of a million tied up in legal bullshits but i had a lot to do now i had to go down they took our liquor license the club immediately closed down from that hit never opened again i immediately had to go to vinnie sicilian i started with him i said bro a multitude of things happened i heard about all these things to me i wondered how long you would take it it got to a whole other level sammy [ __ ] the joint i got a little piece you're my friend i don't even explain it to me i don't give a [ __ ] [ __ ] the club i gave him a hug kiss on a tree i went down to coney island wanted to see salty told him the same thing if you feel you lost money if you feel there's a number that i owe you bro uh sammy you're crazy don't even do that we're brothers bro and you did a great [ __ ] job [ __ ] the joint [ __ ] the money that's causing austria they both walked away from the club the argument the beef didn't want to argue i blew the club blamed me for anything nothing took my back and didn't want a penny the government was different the government was all over me investigations were flying all over the place i saw frankie the chico the next day i told frankie the entire story like i'm telling you actually it was so fresh i told him every detail the next day it was in the newspapers it was blasted all over the place ties to the gambino family he must have been a millionaire all this [ __ ] stuff there's in newspapers and every place about him there's articles popping out who he was what he was and when they came after the next day that they took his body and cleaned up the office that he was in there was three or two or three doberman pinches attack dogs that he had in there already he was bunking himself in there was weapons in there he was going to make a [ __ ] military base out of this thing and fight me fight the italian mafia fight us grizz balls didn't work out for him but he lost but i was in trouble frankie came back to me and reported to paul it was the same exact as it was in the newspaper i never seen a newspaper be that exact but he brought the exact story back paul was accusing me of doing a hit off the record not asking for permission [Music] sammy had it wrong he had to come to me i'm the boss he needed my nod i don't want to meet him well frankie tells me the story he said sammy if he gives me your ticket or he gives it to anybody in my knowledge all i'm going to say is don't meet me don't meet me means there's a hit on me i would know that i got my whole crew up to my phone i congratulated them on their loyalty and what they did i said i have a problem with this it's not your problem you've done nothing wrong anybody who don't want to be here and stay with my problem and i don't blame you leave leave now we'll always be friends matter of fact you guys who leave if anything happens take care of my wife and my kids don't try to get even don't try and do anything so i want some of you to leave it's not cowardice i want you to leave those are the guys who leave you're responsible for my wife and kids the guys that were going to stay i told them go home load up don't come here with pistols the heavy stuff shotguns uzis we're gonna go to war i did the right thing by protecting paul and now i'm being accused of the rules i might get whacked for this [Music] i can't accept that [Music] i was in a war with the gallows i knew what it entailed i knew what would happen i actually knew we couldn't win but i was convincing myself we're not going to go down easy me and my guys are in trouble when you come you're going to be by my side [Music] we're going to take a note to each other we're all going to go down together it's not going to be easy we can't win so understand whenever you go get shotgun an uzi we're all going to die for what i did you don't have to come back no one no one left not one [Music] my whole crew 10 12 15 strong stood there i said i need some of you to leave not be part of this no one would leave [Music] i stayed 19 [ __ ] days before paul castellano was willing to meet me in a restaurant in manhattan him had taught me bloody wanted to see me and louis molito louie molito was one of the shooters he knew that i met him [Music] and in this he told me what you did is did work off the record you didn't ask permission [Music] i said paul what i did [Music] you know the entire story i'm not gonna tell you again but what i did i made that decision i knew you would give me permission for everything he did for me to have that happen come up to your house meet with you knowing the fbi is watching you they would see me walk in and then this would happen in the plaza suite i was afraid that they if they put two and two together they would link it to you that's why i sent frankie after and i didn't come myself because it was linking this whole [ __ ] thing to me i try to avoid putting you in trouble involved in this thing that there was a direct meeting before and a direct meeting after he says you're not the only tough guy tommy bloody's a tough guy he's got a gun i said he don't need a gun you want me deadpool for what i did give the order give me the gun my car's parked outside i'll go right in front and i'll blow my [ __ ] brains out [Music] when you walk out you'll see that i conform to your order one of the reasons i did that i was thinking if i go to war i can't win [Music] me and my crew will die they did nothing wrong they followed my orders to the t they risk their lives [Music] i thought back with a guy named johnny keys the night he died he taught me goes in austria in a whole different way a different light he taught me how to die like a man it was my turn to die and to die like a man so i was taking the weight by saying that i'll die my i'll kill myself i'll die in the car i knew at that point my crew wouldn't be touched [Music] they would be satisfied if that's what it took that's exactly what the [ __ ] i would have done you could never ever do this again you always have to ask me my permission louie has his hand on my wrist now we're out of it we're gonna make it i said i can't make that promise if it comes to saving you [Music] and i'm gonna go because of that then so be it louie's now kicking me in the [ __ ] leg like paul is smiling do have [ __ ] balls you do have balls even tommy milani is not smiling but smirking and not in his head as if to say when i just said is right that's goes in austria i'm supposed to protect you you're the boss of the family you can't tell me not to protect you that would be a cowardice [ __ ] move and i'm not a coward i may not be the toughest guy in the [ __ ] world but i'm not a coward [Music] he often puffed a little bit it's over the plaza sweet thing story is over but not quite [Music] after a while i did get indicted me my brother-in-law and a few other guys the people who made the money flow to 350 000 to me a check cashing place we did all kinds of things to get that money turned into cash and i got it the trial went on for a while [Music] my accountant [Music] came in and took the stand [Music] my lawyer asked him he didn't pay taxes on that money right no but the following year he attempted to pay taxes he told you to pay the tax right yes there was a crack in the case at the end of the trial my lawyer jerry chargo very famous lawyer asked the jurors mr gravano's got an eighth grade education i don't know your education level but if you go to an accountant to pay your taxes and the accountant says don't pay them this year pay him next year [Music] would you not listen to him or would you just pay him whenever you feel like it and people are like nodding as if to say yeah of course i would listen to the accountant the accountant actually bailed me out when he made that statement on the oath what the accountant said understand under oath what the lawyers did we were all found not guilty not just me but the irs barreled in and wanted the money because now i'm actually admitting i got the money i got out of it by saying i didn't pay it then i got it but i didn't pay it then i paid it here so i beat the tax evasion case but now i owe the money i owned a 30 acre farm horse breeding and training farm at that time in my life in new jersey the government was taking my house that i live with my wife and kids and or the farm until i paid everything i decided on selling the farm that my loved my my wife loved it my children loved it we had it for a couple of years that was my my way of leaving the neighborhood and having a family normal life my getaway i had to give it up i sold the farm for a little over 350 000 i took that money and some other monies that i had in the bank i paid all my lawyers fees taxes and everything and i was broke again seems like the story in my life as a kid my family growing up broke i went to riches and i went broke i came back and i went to riches and then i was broke again new york 1985. things were going great in the beginning were paul i loved the guy it was great and i was earning very well on to him and everything was going good and everybody basically thought he was the best thing since sliced bread but paul did a lot of things that started deteriorating and cracking that wall of love or whatever you want or loyalty whatever you want to call it he's becoming more greedy for money when he got arrested the newspaper showed that he made gross 52 million dollars a year that's just from one company and he had a multitude of different companies and you know so paul was different than carlo gambino paul was more business-wise more greedy in a way and uh the the the underlings that even the different families resented some of these things then there was tapes with john gotti and angelo rodgerio and that set off big problems so paul's problems were growing by the day the most loyal people to him he would do something to them he owed me 40 000 never paid me but my fear was falling apart in our opinion me and frankie especially our family we all know what went on the tapes all this stuff we all know what happened i saw d.b one time he was a made guy in the family eventually became a captain db said angelo rogerio wants to see you could you take a ride out to uh queens and he gave me the time i said yeah i'll go there i got in the car and i drove out there i saw angelo on the corner i pulled over i parked the car i got out i walked home hey ends how's everything going i already know about his problems how's everything going okay sammy says i need to ask you for a tremendous favor whatever i could do for you bro what what do you want me to do i need you to help me we're going to kill the boss you're going to what gonna kill the boss who who's gonna do it you me john guardian i don't see john gotti i just see you where's john gotti well you know sammy he's you know he's doing something you know i don't know nothing bro you're asking me to kill a [ __ ] boss and i gotta know you don't even have an answer from where the [ __ ] he is in other words is he asking me to kill the boss too of course we're together then why aren't he here what is this just some [ __ ] message could you pick me up a container of milk you're talking to me about killing the boss listen angelo i don't want to talk about it here's what i'm going to do i'm going to get back in my car i'm going to go straight to staten island over frankie chico's house and i'm gonna tell him about this conversation i'm not gonna tell nobody else but i'm gonna tell him what you're telling me you got a problem with that no no sammy is gonna wind up being with us we're gonna reach him yeah all right and that's what i do i get back in the car [Music] i drive to staten island i go to frankie chico's house we go in the backyard and i'm talking to him about what just happened we're kicking it around for an hour two hours three hours they dealt drugs they broke every rule under the [ __ ] sun they got caught on tape talking about the commission about the bosses about every [ __ ] thing they have destroyed the mob with those tapes so now it's being dumped in our lap should we kill the boss and save them should we just sit back and let them duke it out and see who wins that's not my style that's not frankie's style we're not going to do that frankie says it's gotten to the point where paul i think sammy we should kill paul save john and his whole [ __ ] crew and make goes and also what it used to be it's deteriorating maybe this is a time to change it after hours of conversation if that's what you want to do he interrupted me sammy everything we talked about and don't forget what he did to you and your family frankie i'll never forget that what's stirring around in my head is maybe it's time for me to get even for what he did to me and my family but i didn't want to do that frankie i wanted to be goes in austria about it everything that he has done killing a captain the connecticut captain allowing chin to do it because he was annoying to chen so many things he did [Music] that's what i really need all of it i don't forget the other part you just reminded me of i'll never forget that [Music] so frankie i'm gonna agree if you're part of it and all of this background i'll be part of it one condition frankie i want you to be the boss he don't deserve it him and angelo broke every rule in the book we're saving them we're not in trouble why should he be the boss sammy i could be his underboss he can't be mine he's got an ego like the empire state building you know that we'll have problems from day one let him be the boss i'll be the under boss you'll immediately be a captain in a matter of months you'll be the gonzoyada family we will be the power behind the throne we will teach him how to run this family if he doesn't do it right if he asks the fool if he thinks this is a joke i give you my word we'll kill him i'll become the boss and you'll become my under boss i look square in his eyes i'm in i put my hand out and we shook on it now it's time for me to become someone in another war at the colombo wall at the gallo prophaci colombo war this war it was time i said frankie if that's what you want i look great i think it's time that we change godzilla [Music] this concludes season one of our thing with sammy the bull gravada we're taking a short break we're working on season two right now and we'll start to upload them very soon thank you so much for listening and your [Music] support you

Channel: Salvatore Sammy The Bull Gravano

Views: 671,985

Rating: 4.9114146 out of 5

Keywords: sammy the bull, salvatore gravano, godfather, mafia, mob boss, underboss, mafioso, john gotti, carlo gambino, lucky luciano, paul castellano, al capone, gambino, bonanno, colombo, crime, true crime, mob, goodfellas, the irishman, roy demeo

Id: SbeDBTXIBxU

Length: 52min 55sec (3175 seconds)

Published: Fri Apr 09 2021

Reddit Comments

[u/shayelson]

he does exagerate a bit and self promotes himself in his videos but he is a damm good story teller...Frank Fiala hit is like a movie