REPUBLICANS AND IT TRANSFORMED THE SOUTH INTO A REPUBLICAN STRONGHOLD. IT MAY BE AN UNCOMFORTABLE TRUTH BUT THE GOP SUCCEEDED BECAUSE THEY TAPPED INTO AN ANTI-LIBERAL IDEOLOGY THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN A PART OF AMERICA'S POLITICS AND IT REMAINS TRUE TO THIS DAY. JOINING ME NOW IS NORM HORNSTEIN, SENIOR FELLOW EMERITUS AT THE AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE, COHOST OF THE "WORDS MATTER" PODCAST, AUTHOR OF "ONE NATION AFTER TRUMP." WE TURN TO YOU WHEN WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT CONTEXT AND HISTORY IN CONGRESS. BY DEFINITION, YOU'VE BEEN FOLLOWING IT FOR SO LONG THAT YOU UNDERSTAND THE CONTEXT THAT OCCURRED IN THE 60s AND 70s AND THE 80s. AS IT RELATES TO SOME OF THESE LIBERAL PUSHES THAT WE ARE SEEING NOW. >> EVEN MORE, THIS GOES BACK TO THE 1930s. THE RUSH LIMBAUGH OF HIS TIME, AND ISOLATIONIST, RACISM AND ANTI-SEMITISM THAT WAS INFECTED IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, FOUGHT OFF BY THE MAINSTREAM FOR A LONG TIME. AS YOU KNOW, THAT BEGAN TO CHANGE IN THE 1960s. IT CHANGED WITH THE COLD WATER MOVEMENT AND WITH NIXON AND REALLY TRUMP IS A CULMINATION OF THAT. I HAVE TO SAY, THOUGH, THAT WE ARE SEEING A LOT OF REPUBLICANS NOW, LIKE ELISE STEFANIK AND SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON DECRIED IT AS MEDICINE. THESE ARE THE SAME PEOPLE WHO SAID NOTHING WHEN DONALD TRUMP FJTED A AND KANYE WEST, AND OPEN ANTI-SEMITE. WHAT WE HAVE SEEN THIS WEEK, THIS INTERVIEW WITH DONALD TRUMP IS STUNNING TO ME. MOST DICTATORS, WHETHER IT IS HITLER OR VLADIMIR PUTIN OR ERDOGAN, THEY DON'T SIGNAL IN ADVANCE , OR , THEY TRY TO CUSHION IT AND SOFTEN IT UNTIL THEY ARE ELECTED. TRUMP IS RIGHT OUT THERE TELLING US HE'S GOING TO BE A VICIOUS DICTATOR, 12 MILLION PEOPLE OR MORE PUT IN, THEY CALL THEM DETENTION CAMPS, I CALL THEM CONCENTRATION CAMPS BEFORE TRYING TO REMOVE THEM. HAVING WOMEN TENANCIES MONITORED BY THE STATE. AND, HE'S DOING THAT BECAUSE, BASICALLY, HE KNOWS HE CAN GET AWAY WITH IT. NOBODY MUCH EXCEPT YOU AND A FEW OTHERS ARE PAYING CLOSE ATTENTION. >> THIS IS WHY THIS CONTINUES TO BE SUCH AN IMPORTANT DISCUSSION. IT IS INTERESTING THAT YOU NAMED ERDOGAN AND ORBAN. MEDIA IS CONTROLLED AND THINGS LIKE TRUMP IS TALKING ABOUT DOING STARTS TO HAPPEN AND DEMOCRACY STARTS TO AWAY. THE "TIME," INTERVIEW YOU TALK ABOUT LAYS OUT AN ALARMING PICTURE OF A SECOND TRUMP TERM CENTRAL TO THIS PLANT IS A PUSH TO GIVE MORE POWERS TO THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH. NOW, PEOPLE DON'T SEEM TO MIND THAT, NORM, WHEN YOUR GUY IS IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH BUT IT ACTUALLY CONTEND TO BE ANTI- DEMOCRATIC. >> AND, WE KNOW WHAT SOME OF THE PLANS ARE. THE SO-CALLED SCHEDULE F, WHERE YOU CAN BASICALLY MOVE CAREER CIVIL SERVANTS AND REPLACE THEM WITH FLUNKIES. WE KNOW THAT PROJECT 2025 OUT OF THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION IN CLOSE CONNECTION WITH THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN IS BUILDING A COUNTRY, AN ARMY OF TRUMP LOYALIST. WE ALSO KNOW OTHER THINGS THIS WEEK. PEOPLE TALKING, INCLUDING HIS FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF, ABOUT HOW TRUMP CASUALLY WOULD SAY WITH PEOPLE HE DIDN'T LIKE WE COULD EXECUTE THEM. AND, SHRUGGING THAT OFF. HE DIDN'T REALLY BELIEVE IT. THAT IS WHAT BILL BARR HAD SAID. BUT, WE KNOW HE SAID HE WILL INVOKE THE INSURRECTION ACT, BRING OUT THE MILITARY TO TAKE ON PROTESTERS. AND, IF THAT HAPPENS, WE ARE GOING TO SEE LEGEND AS WELL, SOMETHING HE HAS NOT SHIED AWAY FROM. BUT, MOST OF OUR MEDIA JUST SHRUGGED AT THIS. THIS IS JUST DONALD TRUMP. I DON'T SEE A LOT OF FRONT-PAGE STORIES ON THIS. BOY, IF JOE BIDEN SET EVEN A QUARTER OF THIS, IT WOULD BE DEFCON 1 FOR EVERYBODY. >> I WILL REMIND OUR VIEWERS, THIS IS THE A BLOCK OF OUR SHOW BECAUSE WE HAPPEN TO THINK THIS IS REMARKABLY IMPORTANT. IT BECOMES DIFFICULT BECAUSE PEOPLE SAY WHY IS YOUR HAIR ON FIRE ABOUT THE STUFF? IT IS A SIMPLE THING CALLED DEMOCRACY. IT IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE DO HAVE TO GET PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND. YOU CAN BE AS CONSERVATIVE OR AS LIBERAL AS YOU WOULD LIKE IN THIS COUNTRY AND IT IS WORTH DEBATING ALL OF THOSE IDEAS AND WHERE YOU THINK, WHERE YOU FEEL MINIMUM WAGE SHOULD BE AND WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE AND LABOR UNIONS BUT RIGHT NOW, THE DISCUSSION IS ABOUT ACTUAL DEMOCRATIC FREEDOMS THAT, ONCE SURRENDERED, BECOME VERY HARD TO WIN BACK TO >> WE HAVE GOT TO GET THE FOCUS ON THIS CONTINUOUSLY BECAUSE THE REALITY IS, WE LOSE OUR DEMOCRACY IF DONALD TRUMP WINS. WE CANNOT LET THIS JUST PASSED BY. WE HAVE TO HAVE SUMMONS ON DEMOCRACY. WE HAVE TO FOCUS ON THE REALITY THAT IN TRUMP'S FIRST TIME, THERE WERE AT LEAST A FEW PEOPLE LIKE THAT SECRETARY MARK ESPER, TO A DEGREE LIKE THE CHIEF OF STAFF JOHN KELLY, AND CERTAINLY SOME OTHERS, WHO TRIED TO PUT AT LEAST SOME LIMITS ON WHAT HE WANTED TO DO. TRUMP HAS MADE IT CLEAR THAT HE'S NOT GOING TO BE MR. NICE GUY NEXT TIME AROUND. THE PEOPLE HE WILL BRING IN ARE STEVE MILLER, STEVE BANNON, ROGER STONE, THE MICHAEL FLYNN'S, RADICAL FANATICS WHO WILL DO AWAY WITH EVERY FREEDOM THAT WE CHERISHED IN THIS COUNTRY. AND, IF WE TREAT THIS AS A TYPICAL ELECTION, TWO CANDIDATES RUNNING, JUST TO FOCUS ON THE HORSERACE, WHICH IS WHAT I SEE TOO MUCH IN OUR MAINSTREAM MEDIUM, THEN WE ARE GOING TO BE FACING HORRIBLE CONSEQUENCES. >> YOU KNOW, YOU WORK FOR THE AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE, WHICH IS THOUGHT TO BE A CONSERVATIVE THINK TANK. YOU WORK WITH A LOT OF CONSERVATIVES, MANY OF THEM WE HAVE ON OUR SHOW, BY THE WAY. YOU WROTE A PIECE FOR THE WASHINGTON POST, YOU WROTE IT WITH THOMAS MANN IN 2012 AND THE PIECE WAS TITLED LET'S JUST SAY IT, THE REPUBLICANS ARE THE PROBLEM, IN WHICH YOU CALLED THE GOP, I'M QUOTING HERE, "AN INSURGENT OUTLIER IN AMERICAN POLITICS." IN 2012. TODAY, THAT COULD HAVE BEEN WRITTEN YESTERDAY. THE REPUBLICAN PARTY RIGHT NOW IS AN INSURGENT OUTLIER IN AMERICAN POLITICS. ALTHOUGH, IT IS ONE SET TO TAKE POWER AGAIN IN CONGRESS AND IN THE WHITE HOUSE. >> YOU KNOW, OVER MORE THAN FIVE DECADES, I WORKED WITH HUNDREDS OF REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS AND IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH, PEOPLE WHO WERE, IN MANY CASES, SIGNIFICANTLY MORE CONSERVATIVE THAN I. BUT, WHO CARED ABOUT THE COUNTRY, WANTED TO SOLVE PROBLEMS, BELIEVED IN INSTITUTIONS, BELIEVED IN THE RULE OF LAW. THAT BEGAN TO SLIP AWAY BEFORE DONALD TRUMP. HE WAS AN ACCELERANT OF THIS PROCESS. I GET CHALLENGED SOMETIMES BY REPUBLICANS ESPECIALLY IN OFFICE THAT I WANT TO DESTROY THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. I WANT TO SAVE A PARTY THAT SHOULD BE A PROBLEM-SOLVING PARTY. BUT, IT HAS GONE SO FAR FROM ITS ROOTS AND THE TROUBLING REALITY IS THAT EVEN WITHOUT TRUMP, YOU LOOK AT NOT JUST THE FREEDOM CAUCUS PEOPLE IN CONGRESS, BY THE WAY, THE CITADEL SOILING ITSELF BY HAVING NANCY MACE, WHO IS ONE OF THE WORST TRUMP FOLLOWERS AS IT'S COMMENCEMENT SPEAKER. YOU LOOK AT THE PARTY NOW INTO THE NEXT GENERATION, THE PEOPLE IN THE SCHOOL BOARDS AND THE STATE LEGISLATURES AND THE PARTY POSITIONS, THEY MAKE THE FREEDOM CAUCUS PEOPLE LOOK MILD BY COMPARISON. IT IS A LONG-TERM PROJECT, IF WE CAN SAVE OUR DEMOCRACY IN NOVEMBER, TO TRY TO RESTORE A LEGITIMATE TWO-PARTY SYSTEM. WE CAN'T OPERATE WITH ONE PARTY AND ONE COLD. >> I KNOW THERE ARE PEOPLE WATCHING THIS I WOULD SAY FINE, IF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY BURNS ITSELF TO THE GROUND. IT IS NOT HEALTHY TO NOT HAVE TWO COMPETITIVE PARTIES DISCUSSING MATTERS OF GREAT IMPORT TO EVERYBODY IN THE COUNTRY ON A
