Operation London Bridge: Will the monarchy survive after the Queen dies? | Under Investigation

[Music] last week queen elizabeth ii marked her platinum jubilee 70 years on the throne she is the only monarch most of us have ever known when the queen came to throne we were still running an empire spanning generations from the terrible aftermath of world war ii through all the trials and tribulations since it has turned out to be an anus or rebellious in the queen's world if you had a headache or you're miserable you just had a large martini you didn't moan about it but perhaps she has faced no greater challenge in her long reign than with her own family and i suppose in love [Music] first came the world's most public divorce after a marriage made for three my father and my brother they are trapped within the system most recently the royal grandson's escaped to america with britain's most hated woman they are acting as if they are both royal but also global celebrities and through it all you were staying at the house as a convicted sex offender the shame of andrew now stripped of his royal titles it seems almost like the enemy is within that is a source of tension that really needs to be resolved tonight with our panel of experts we'll investigate the future of the monarchy beyond the reign of queen elizabeth i think the time has come for us to move away from that system will the monarchy end with her charles prince of wales will we bow to king charles for the next hundred years a white protestant male head of state all will we finally become a republic we need to look at our indigenous history and our multicultural history as we celebrate the incredible life of queen elizabeth our experts will also investigate the impact of her death it's not just the passing of the queen it's the passing of a whole way of life good evening i'm liz hayes and this is under investigation [Music] joining me from london ingrid seward editor-in-chief of majesty magazine and the doyan of british royal commentators jeffrey robinson qc international human rights lawyer and confirmed republican and the right honourable norman baker former british minister of state and privy council member in melbourne former victorian premier and supporter of the monarchy the honourable jeff kennett in sydney dr cindy mccreary cultural historian at sydney university and professor dennis altman from la trobe university who recently authored a book on constitutional monarchies our experts come with strong and diverse views but on one when news of the queen's death comes they are united her death will be met i think with gratitude because of her long service there will be muffled drums there will be church bells ringing there will be 21 gun salutes and uh it will be an enormously dignified time well the queen has been part of everybody's life for a very long time i mean i'm almost at retirement age she was on the throne when i was born so there will be a complete change in the nation a fixed point if you like in people's lives will have disappeared there are very few human beings who have been in a high office for so many many decades and seen such enormous change so it will be a time of mourning by the majority when people can pay homage and say thank you to what has been a remarkable life it is really really the end of an era it's the end of an era that most of us have only ever known it will be a turning point in history and in years to come it's very likely you will remember where you were when you heard the news the passing of the queen of england elizabeth ii and there is no one more keenly aware of the impact of her death on the nation and how it should be treated than the queen herself as a young woman she witnessed the grand ceremony of her father's funeral [Music] for the past 50 years there have been regular meetings to plan for her majesty's passing and her succession right down to the last detail it is in many ways her final duty in a life where duty has distinguished her the queen has been a party to all of these plans oh absolutely i mean part of the job of the monarch is to assure the succession that the queen is dead long live the king in this case so she has been very much involved in all in all the plans at the moment of the queen's passing a message will flash out from buckingham palace stating london bridge is down from inside the castle one voice will speak the words that will become a national chorus the queen is dead long live the king prince charles will immediately be king the minute his mother passes he will be king cindy there's no doubt that um uh because the protocol the monarchy is set up such that charles gets the job it can't go to william we should make that clean no that's right there's an act of succession and it will go to charles but he is of course in his 70s and is that's a very different age and stage to become a monarch queen elizabeth of course came to the throne when she was in her 20s so it's a very different ballgame here according to operation london bridge on the 10th day following her death the queen's funeral will be held at westminster abbey there will be queues i think they will stretch for miles people paying tribute as they shuffle past her open coffin it's a that's an unusual thing for britain for three days you'll be able to see the late queen it will be the final act of a life spent on camera the first truly modern monarch i declare before you all that my whole life whether it be long or short shall be devoted to your service and to the service of our great imperial family on her 21st birthday when she dedicated her life to service she did it in front of a camera when she was crowned at 27 she was the first british monarch whose coronation was televised trumpets are sounded and the bills are wrong people in the city and town of london salute this moment [Music] and so the queen's funeral will also be a global television event unmatched by any in modern rural history except perhaps by one the death of princess diana in 1997. i think it will be very strong emotions some people say well nothing will ever be like diana but this will be more exaggerated even then diana there probably won't be sleek carpets of flowers and people sobbing but i think people will be in a way you know almost nervous what what is the future of all the monarchies in the world this is probably the best known and the most respected and so when this event takes place it will be watched by millions of people all around the world is it appropriate i think it is the question is whether or not this is really simply about uh paying tribute to the queen and harrison public service or whether it's also about bringing child into the limelight coming up he's been practicing for many many years king charles mummy and queen camilla camilla i think now appears to be the sanest and most sensible of the entire family and you can't leave her alone the crown effect he's portrayed in a very very unpleasant way will it drive australia to becoming a republic i find it very odd that a british family are seen as the appropriate people to be the heads of state here that's next on under investigation [Music] [Applause] to understand the endurance of the queen consider the changes she's seen during her reign don't get hung up on the old days a nation still recovering from world war ii the space race man landing on the moon the cold war and the collapse of communism the birth and boom of the digital age you see 16 people i may not look so good tomorrow and through it all the queen remained in place steadfast dependable unchanging thank you for making me feel so old i think this has been the great thing about the queen's reign is this duty everything is duty i mean she's basically had no life of her own and i think the younger members of the royal family find this also very hard because we live in a completely different world we live in a world when you think about yourself and it's me and how you feel and but in the queen's world you know if you had a headache or you were depressed or you're miserable you just had a large martini quite honestly you didn't moan about it does football look quite good is it is it coming you haven't been in it for ages there are very few jobs you start in your 70s prince charles has been heir to the throne king in waiting his whole life it is my sincere wish that the commonwealth will decide that one day the prince of wales should carry on the important work started by my father in 1949. but will a lifetime of preparation count for much when it comes to leading the royal family the uk and constitutional monarchies like australia to a new and very different age mommy whereas the queen was an undisputed celebrity charles has so far too many seemed more a curiosity i'm wondering whether to buy a pig or not they're rather notice children always love those don't they pigs the only thing you can say for sure liz he's been practicing for many many years former victorian premier jeff kennett has some sympathy for prince charles he like all of us it's not perfect and he's had his ups and downs but a couple of things in his favor he's worked very hard since the incidents that have cost or caused a lot of publicity how's he's going to perform i don't know but i wouldn't worry about his age for goodness sake he's still very young he couldn't live to his grandmother's eyes i would think that charles has been waiting for this for a very long time i would have thought he would want to revel in that and enjoy his reign before perhaps passing on to william i do think that the monarchy will modernize hugely when prince charles comes to the throne because the queen has been queen since 1952 i mean there are parts of the monarchy which you know are archaic and charles has got a big big job in front of him to modernize things and he will start by modernizing the coronation service queen elizabeth's coronation in 1952 cost britain the equivalent of nearly a hundred million dollars but ingrid seward believes charles will opt for something more humble a low-key crowning it won't be nearly so elaborate and nearly so long because i don't think the people of great britain and the realms will want to have something of that magnitude in this day and age because it's going to cost so much there's no doubt charles will feel the shadow of his mother as he attempts to make the monarchy his own but there's another longer shadow he may find more difficult to move beyond and i suppose in love [Music] that of diana the world's princess whose fairy tale became a tragedy for which many blamed charles and his mistress camilla jeffrey robertson i think you wrote that charles will be a king without the magic of his mother but that also brings me to camilla what can't be the magic of that situation how is that going to be dealt with well i think that's their best chance i mean i know charles i know camilla i think she is quite an extraordinary woman who's been derided for a long time australian human rights lawyer and qc jeffrey robertson has lived and worked in the uk for decades she now appears to be the sanest and most sensible of the entire family sure she's a chain smoker but that's seen as part of her independence and so she is likely queen camilla to be accepted i think charles will be a good king for england [Music] jeff kennett is camilla a stumbling block at all do you think i i love this conversation that we're discussing a member of the royal family and whether she smokes or not i said look i think well that's what the english press are interested in i think you could easily be surprised at how well they both will perform and i would certainly want to give them every opportunity to perform well rather than at this stage trying to point out their failures and their weaknesses and not their strengths they're well trained to do the job that they are going to be called upon to do at one stage i hope they do it well for the uk for the family's sake and for all of those who respect the monarchy well i think the ghost of diana has reappeared in force and i think that the young people of this country that don't remember diana being a physical presence and they just see things like the crown and they must think that prince charles is the most awful man i have done my best my very best and i am suffering no you are not suffering we are all suffering having to put up with this he's portrayed in a very very unpleasant way most of the time and therefore camilla is also part of the problem because she was the one that he fell in love with when he was married to diana or well before he was married to diana to be exactly right so i think there is a problem amongst perhaps the younger people in this country with accepting camilla but maybe people will give her the benefit of the doubt norman baker what do you say well i mean um historically you got to go back to the fact that we were told that camilla would be princess consort and she wouldn't be queen and clearly charles would like her to be queen i don't think it matters very much to be honest with you one way or the other and i don't think the public at large will will will revolt if uh if she becomes queen but the memory of dyna is still there and the fact that uh charles was was in a kind of menage a trois in effect with uh camilla and down at the same time is not uh a great look for for our new king [Music] coming up he wanted to meddle as much as he could when he was prince of wales will the middle some prince [Music] derail the royal future i think that's a danger for charles it seems almost like the enemy is within or will his brother andrew do it for him that is a source of tension and confusion that really needs to be resolved that's next on under investigation [Music] [Music] i love these turkeys they make me laugh so much [Music] the next king of england has long been viewed as a rather quirky prince hello [Music] but if there's one thing charles will bring to the throne it's opinions it's entirely because i worry about your grandchildren and everybody else's grandchildren as well as my own in 2015 a series of 27 letters from prince charles lobbying government ministers and politicians were made public they became known as the black spider memos after prince charles handwriting and they earned him the nickname of the meddling prince underpinning principles for the monarchy is one of political neutrality and therefore being seen to influence in this way may be an uncomfortable process is he going to be a meddling king absolutely won't be a meddling king i think he wanted to meddle as much as he could when he was prince of wales and he certainly won't be a meddling king that would be far far too dangerous a thing to try and do perhaps the opinion charles has shared most and loudest is his view on climate change climate change and biodiversity lost pose and even greater existential threat we have to put ourselves on what might be called a war-like footie it's a position that may win him support and admiration as king he is seen right now has perhaps been one of the first people in the world to start arguing about the importance of climate and i think you've got to give him some credit for that jeff is right in charles's green credentials i happily talk to the plants of course you're the trees and all these other things listen to them when he started by saying i talked to the plants and they listened to me everyone was put in mind of spike milligander i talked to the trees that's why they took me away but charles has has got genuine greed credentials at a time when the australian prime minister was saying climate change is crap and the next prime minister was bringing a lump of coal into parliament to worship helicopters you know there's nothing worse than people lecturing the population at large on what they should do and not applying the lesson to themselves and i think that's a danger for charles these days former british minister of state norman baker casts a rather critical eye over the royals yes he has been as jeff says leading the campaign on the environment for many years but he undermines his own case by insisting on taking private jets everywhere by taking helicopters to go to cambridge to lecture people on on climate change but so with due respect as a former politician the senior politicians take planes and helicopters and i guarantee the royal family in the uk earn more money for the uk than any of you politicians with due respect well i don't think that's necessarily true but one of the favorite monarchy is that it helps the tourist industry i really don't think we should base our constitutional arrangements on what tourists want the queen's father coined the term the firm for the house of windsor and the royal firm both makes and costs a lot of money where that balance lies it's largely up to your opinion of their value to the nation the royals are a massive tourist draw for visitors to the uk but they're also funded by british taxpayers to the tune of millions of pounds a year over the past decade largely due to the cost of repairing buckingham palace the amount paid to the queen increased an astounding 980 the monarchy in this country costs 86 million pounds a year plus all the costs of security plus all the tax breaks compare that with say sweden where the monarchy costs six million pounds a year or they go on bicycles or um the cost of the monarchy here is enormous compared to other countries so we need to change this what prince charles will do is he will slim down the monarchy he's spoken about it enough he will definitely when he ascends the throne there will be far less members of the royal family there will be him and his immediate family and i think that the rest of the royal family will not be a part of it because the more of them that there are the more problems that they have over the centuries royalty and scandal have gone hand in hand but the current royal family has set its own benchmark as queen elizabeth's long reign met the age of celebrity the era of paparazzi and gossip magazines the royal family became tabloid fodder for the world if you read the british tabloids you'll find that they're full of andrew's alleged sexual misdeeds of the breakup with harry and megan this is a kind of public entertainment in which everyone can share they to that extent that's the function of the monarchy we should not pretend that it has any exalted place in the constitution you tell me one family that hasn't had problems within its ranks over the years i mean you seem to think that the monarchy the human beings that make up the family are somehow different from us all in terms of their makeup etc they're not they're clearly not but there's a great deal of value particularly for the uk i think in the monarchy continuing uh the royal family themselves are trying to open up matters with a film called i think it's called the royal family 1969 on the bbc the standard is ready and since then they've wanted to walk this difficult tight rook between being celebrities in the one side and having the respect from uh standing on a pedestal on the other so they object violently to the press intrusion and coverage of their foibles but at the same time they want to be fully respected yeah english it's a tricky business isn't it because they understand popularity they play to that popularity it's important for them to be popular but yet they want to be very private one thing they absolutely hate is being called celebrities and being there for an amusement value but again they they know that once you'll be put on a pedestal there's only one way and that's to be knocked off and it is essential that they have respect of the people otherwise there is no monarchy and the respect of the people has been sorely tested over the years sarah ferguson when she was a duchess was famously filmed trying to cut a cash for access deal involving her then husband prince andrew 500 000 pounds when you come to me open doors and then there is andrew close friends with convicted pedophile jeffrey epstein you were staying at the house a convicted sex offender it was a convenient place to stay in trying to dodge the scandal prince andrew secured the title of worst ever royal interview on the bbc she described dancing with you and you profusely sweating there's a slight problem with with the sweating um because i have a peculiar medical condition which is that i don't sweat embroiled in a court case in the u.s in which he's accused of raping an underage girl the queen has now stripped andrew of his royal titles it doesn't matter how many contacts you have doesn't matter who your family is doesn't matter how much wealth you have you're not above the law with the passing of the crown to charles it isn't just the scandal of his brother andrew that he'll have to manage thank you everybody for all the well wishes and the kindness it's me just means so much it's also his wayward son prince harry and daughter-in-law megan trading on their royal connection in the u.s polarizing public opinion and providing a constant unwelcome distraction from the real business of ruling my father and my brother they are trapped they don't get to leave and i have huge compassion for that it seems almost like the enemy is within we've got harry and megan basically suggesting that charles and and william are trapped well i think that that's uh you know they they might be trapped but they've never been anywhere else so i think they were born in the trap so was harry harry has just chosen to get out of it but charles and william they intend to stay there and do their duty cultural historian at sydney university dr cindy mccreary has extensively researched the monarchy i think that there is going to be challenges in the future for charles with his relationship with with his son harry and megan um because they are at the moment um acting as if they are both royal but also uh global celebrities i think that is a source of tension um and confusion that really needs to be resolved if charles is to uh proceed with this slimmed down monarchy in any kind of consistent way look the oprah interview was watched by almost 2 million australians even though it was on channel 10 so what we've got to understand is that the main service of the monarchy is entertainment can i make one point about the monarch and celebrity and it's to remind us all of that moment in the olympics in london when the queen appeared with daniel craig as james bond good evening totally in the celebrity world but then went into the royal box and everybody's struggling the queen has been brilliant i think at combining celebrity and majesty and it is possible to do that whether or not this is a good thing for britain i leave to the many people from britain on the panel i think it's not a good thing for us in australia because we don't have our own monarchy in place and we are living with essentially a clayton's governor general [Applause] coming up well may we say god save the queen the future king of australia because nothing will save the governor general who applauded the sacking of our government it could happen again because we haven't changed the law to prevent it ever happening again that's next jeff kenneth would you accept the job of governor general if offered who me on under investigation [Music] the monarch in australia is represented by the governor general and we've largely supported the notion of a queen above politics that was until november the 11th 1975 proclamation by his excellency the governor general of australia and the infamous dismissal when governor general sir john kerr sacked prime minister goff whitlam well may we say god saved the queen because nothing will save the governor general many believe the dismissal of gof whitlam had the direct knowledge and support of the queen and prince charles but if so it backfired for the first time australians seriously questioned the power the queen has over our nation life is wonderful for all of us and her governor general sir john kerr became an almost comic tragic figure so under king charles could the dismissal happen again well charles when he was a much younger man wrote a letter to john kerr congratulating him on sacking the whitlam government a wise and courageous act now that will come back to haunt him but it could happen again because we haven't changed the law in order to prevent it ever happening again politics works by following convention i think that anybody who is going to be in the situation of a governor general in our system will not want to repeat what sir john kerr did you would need to get a quite extraordinary situation for i think that to happen of course all sorts of things could happen tony abbott could become prime minister again he could uh sir anthony abbott could bring back a royal to be governor general one could envisage the situation if megan and harry's ratings fall on netflix or if disney voice-overs don't pay they might come back demand to be of service and king charles might look for a place to put them and the australians might offer yara lumla which no one would have heard of of course we've closed our borders jeffrey we have clothes they could be they could be job share governor generals they might be very popular jeff kenneth would you accept the job of governor general if offered who me you oh oh goodness not this week no not this week and why not i'd be happy to vote for you as president would you jeffrey yes i would you'd be as good as any and probably better than most but will the republican spirit fire up again with the passing of the queen the question of an australian republic with our own head of state has faced us once at a referendum in 1999. becoming a republic is not about barracking for your favorite team the cause championed by eddie mcguire and malcolm turnbull we're going to win because people aren't going to be taken in by the uh by the campaign of life we voted no our hearts may be broken tonight but our spirits are unbroken what i find fascinating is charles iii also succeeds as the head of state of australia none of us will have any opportunity whatsoever to question whether that is appropriate according to the australian constitution is automatic i mean for the next hundred years australia will have a white anglo-german protestant male head of state they'll have charles iii william v george vii that's what australia has to look forward to there's an issue for the monarchy in the uk and there's an issue for the monarchy here in australia and they're different arguments and dennis complains that when the baton passes to charles we haven't got a say in it we've known about that for years dennis do you think can i say that i actually agree with jeff much more than he might expect and jeff i wasn't complaining i was really fortunate no i was there no i was really making the point that not only do we not choose our head of state our head of state does not live here our head of state does not speak for us i find it very odd that a british family are seen as the appropriate people to be the heads of state here i agree there's a difference between the effects on australian effect on britain actually my sense is the british public at large is somewhere in the middle in fact it prepared to have a monarchy but it wants a monarchy which is substantially changed from what we've got and the reason we haven't pushed it too far is out of respect for the queen who's there in a personal capacity and the respect of the queen is different from respect for the monarchy [Music] coming up i think change is inevitable the death of the queen will it be an end britain's rule has diminished enormously over her reign or a new beginning we need to look at our own history our indigenous history and our multicultural history our experts cast judgment it will take a long time before australia changes that's next on under investigation [Music] in the 21st century it's reasonable to question the relevance of monarchies the notion of being born to rule seems outdated and out of place in modern societies [Music] but according to the research of avowed republican professor dennis altman constitutional monarchies are the most stable successful systems of government on earth i think monarchies survive because they provide continuity they provide a sense of tradition and they provide a check against the excesses of politicians but i think that in countries that have retained a monarchy and who retained democratic systems people feel a strong connection to the monarchy we grow up with the royals and we see that as a continuation i think norman made the point that things are changing rapidly and in a time of rapid change there is something very comforting about the presence of a royal family [Music] it is a strange existence to be queen an existence that only a truly extraordinary woman could do justice to when the institution is constantly questioned [Music] and it's worth considering the outsized shadow cast by her majesty queen elizabeth in her instantly recognizable iridescent hats and coats she's calmly maintained a fixed smile while facing unending crowds and a revolving door of world leaders have won for her majesty the queen but for all that it's to be remembered the queen is also very human [Music] [Music] well i think the queen is the strength and core of the monarchy and i think we've all discussed tonight that history will probably be very kind to her but i want to ask you all uh in final comments um the future of the the monarchy dennis well i think we have to make of course the distinction between britain and australia i think while a majority of australians have pushed would find it very difficult to defend the present system i also suspect a majority will not be mobilized to vote against it my senses will take a long time before australia changes i think that um the monarchy does mean different things in britain than australia and i think going forward that we will see some um continuation of the monarchy and as much pomp and circumstance as they can afford uh i think in australia it's a different situation and i think that we as need to look at our own history not just in terms of relationship with britain as important as it is but in terms of our indigenous history and our multicultural history and think about who we are today as a nation and who we want to be and to remember that we actually don't need to wait until the change of monarch in britain for us to change our own um form of government i think if we go forward um it's an opportunity for britain to reflect upon itself and when the queen came to the throne we were still running an empire uh we'd only just lost india you know britain's role has diminished enormously over her over this reign it's not the queen's fault of course but that's that's the reality of what's happened to britain ingrid um presumably you will mourn deeply the queen's death um and but do you think change is inevitable because she was the mainstay i think change is inevitable and i think we need to support our monarchy to be proud of them and it's up to charles to carry this on and i think he will be able to do it and i think he will do it very very well i have great respect for him and i sincerely hope that the rest of the british people and the people of the uk have the same feeling the monarchy will go on i think charles will be a goodish king of england uh but for australia it's absurd we'll be the last of the commonwealth countries to have the monarch as our head of state and it looks ludicrous let's grow up as australians and have our own head of state even if it's jeff kenneth i think the monarchy will survive and i think charles and camilla will do a much better job than many commentators are trying to suggest in terms of australia i agree i think the time has come for us to move away from that system why because we have a lot of younger people who have no relationship to the monarchy whatsoever or to the uk we have a multicultural community cindy talks about our first peoples our indigenous people so i think the time will come but you've got to decide on a very simple method of replacing what we've already got because what we've got at the moment has worked although it has been argued against what you want to do is to put into place something that is better and will see us through for the rest of time tonight should give us pause to consider the extraordinary life's work of elizabeth alexandra mary windsor by any measure her devotion and duty to her country is worthy of our deepest respect i'm liz hayes thank you for joining me on this special edition of under investigation good night hello i'm liz hayes thanks for watching 60 minutes australia subscribe to our channel now for brand new stories and exclusive clips every week and don't miss out on our extra minute segments 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Channel: 60 Minutes Australia

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Keywords: 60 Minutes, 60 Minutes Australia, Liz Hayes, Tara Brown, Liam Bartlett, Tom Steinfort, Sarah Abo, karl stefanovic, 60Mins, #60Mins, the queen, elizabeth, charles, meghan, harry, william, kate, diana, camilla, monarchy, death, dies, heir, takeover, reign, andrew, epstein, trump, royal, family, over, buckingham, palace, taxpayers, millionaires, under investigation, oprah, scandal, the crown

Id: -QsRtcHEmaI

Length: 43min 5sec (2585 seconds)

Published: Wed Feb 09 2022