George Hammond: It's our great pleasure to
have Sadhguru with us. Sadhguru: (Laughs). George Hammond: So, tell us a little bit about
your childhood. Where... Sadhguru: Because I was Huck Finn in many
ways, totally unstructured and school was a unnecesary evil that I was forced to go
sometimes. George Hammond: The experience of...of...
of enlightenment is supposed to broaden you out... Sadhguru: Enlightenment, in yogic culture,
growth means dissolution, so, every yogi is looking for a orgasmic existence. IT is not seen as a connected to particular
act in life but as a way of existence. So, this is called as bliss body. We would like to see, before we fall dead,
there are more blissful human beings than miserable human beings. George Hammond: Welcome to the Commonwealth
Club. I'm George Hammond, Chairman of the Humanities
Program which organised tonight's event. It's tonight in India, it's morning in California. And it's our great pleasure to have Sadhguru
with us again. We spoke at the Commonwealth Club in 2013
and I must say you've been a very busy man since then (Sadhguru laughs). Sadhguru: Namaskaram and good morning to everyone
(Overlapping conversation). Welcome, George. George Hammond: So, what interested me, how
this idea generated to bring you back to the Commonwealth Club was that you recently in
October, did a motorcycle tour of the United States. And you stopped in Hannibal Missouri, Mark
Twain's hometown, and you posted a small video. That video was sent to me by a distant relative
of mine, Redmond Cool. And I said, "Well, this is great" because
I like Mark Twain and I like Vedanta theory. And, so I listened some of your other videos
and I said we really have to talk about the big ideas together. It'd be just great. So, thank you very much for joining us and
tell us a little bit about your tour. Why did you... I mean, I know, you have a lot of interested
followers in The United States, but we're going to get back to your motorcycle but it's
very interesting that you rode your motorcycle across the country. Why don't you say a little bit about your
motorcycle experiences? Sadhguru: Well, for me, motorcycling started
very early on in my life and at one time I crisscrossed India on my motorcycle. Like for almost four, four-and-a-half years
I literally lived on a motorcycle. But once I got into this work in the... almost
twenty-eight years I never sat on a motorcycle nor did I think about one. So, when I was doing a Rally for Rivers, where
I drove in a car from you know, southernmost tip of India to Himalayas, covering little
over 10,000 kilometers at that time. And you know we were rallying for changing
how we treat our rivers; we changed the policy in the country through that rally. The policy for managing rivers were written
by us and today it's become an official policy. As a part of that when I was doing when I
came to Bangalore, they said, "Sadhguru why don't you ride a motorcycle?" And they brought one for me. I just wondered... I just wondered, can I ride after such a long
time, can I really manage this? But the moment I sat in the motorcycle I saw
that I hadn't lost a day. So, since then, I've been having... Since then, I've been having problems in getting
into a car. So, literally last three years I've been on
motorcycles, so once again (Both laugh). And we were... we did the American tour mainly
to, you know, I felt the Native American populations have become invisible. We should make them visible in the world. That was the main interest, so we touched
all this Native American reservations and nations as they call them. So, as a part of this, when always their...
because this a very oral culture, there is no written language, it's all oral. They've always been saying, "It's blowing
in the wind," so, I thought if it was blowing in the wind, let me confront the wind on a
motorcycle (Both laugh) George Hammond: Well I, I think, it's a great
image. And I want to go back to it because I know
that that's how you went up to Chamundi Hill and for your experience as well. I think that beats the banyan tree anytime,
to arrive on a motorcycle. Sadhguru: (Laughs) You've been looking me
up. George Hammond: So, tell us a little bit about
your childhood. We're bringing in authors from all around
the world to try to give the American audience, as you said to me, you wanted on your trip
to make Native Americans more visible in the world. The Commonwealth Club, because of our technology,
we're able to bring people in from all over the world. And we're trying to make them more visible
in America, because there's a two-way street that's been going on, and not just in the
last couple hundred years but for thousands of years between India and the West; between
the thinkers in one one area of the world and thinkers in another. So, you, you as a young boy, read Mark Twain,
as you said, which you know, your father was a doctor, right, a doctor for the railways
Yeah, so... Sadhguru: Yeah. He was a physician, actually an ophthalmologist. George Hammond: Ophthalmologist. So, I take it your eyesight is very good then,
yeah? Sadhguru: It's still very good (Both laugh). George Hammond: So, your... your experience
with Mark Twain, how did you... did you just take it out of the library, did they teach
it in school? How did you get to Huckleberry Finn? Sadhguru: When I was eleven years of age,
I read Huck Finn, as an abridged version, a small book. And, it kind of... because I was Huck Finn
in many ways – totally unstructured and school was a unnecessary evil (Both laugh)
that I was forced to go sometimes and I went there only when it was absolutely necessary,
otherwise I always got lost on the streets somewhere on the way. I... To make me reach the school was a very difficult
thing. Actually, they put me to school when I was
three-and-a-half years of age. It was kind of a... whatever, they called
it a playschool, but I didn't think it was very much play (George Hammond laughs). So, this maid used to hold me by hand and
take me to the school. I made a deal with her, "You leave me at the
gate." It was, you know, not dignified that she holds
me and takes me to the class. I said, "You leave me at the gate." The moment she left, I went away somewhere
else. I was three-and-a-half, I want you to know
(Both laugh). And I discovered the Grand Canyon in a small
town in Southern India, and I experimented with all kinds of creatures, I captured tadpoles,
insects all kinds of things. But after a little over three months I think
somehow, somebody told them, and they caught me, and they said, I was playing in the gutter. But I thought I was in the Grand Canyon (Both
laugh). George Hammond: On your trip, did you see
the Grand Canyon? Sadhguru: Later on, later on when I came to
graduation, there was a choice of American literature to pick up from, so I... one of
the... in first year of my graduation, I picked up Huck Finn as my book to write about. So, I wrote a paper on Huck Finn. So, that's my engagement with him (Laughs). George Hammond: Well, it's interesting because
Mark Twain also wrote a book called, 'The Mysterious Stranger'. I'm not sure if you're familiar with one. But in the mysterious stranger, it's a deceptively
childhood story, but it's set in the medieval times. And a nephew of Satan comes and plays with
the boys and is very mischievous. But at the end of the... that book, he explains
that life is just a dream and so Mark Twain had this idea that... that you know, it could
just be a thought, the whole thing could just be a thought. And it's very similar to some of the Indian
ideas. And I was wondering, you know, I was very
curious about that because a lot of people don't realise how many ideas, these transcendental
ideas have come over like – Emerson Thoreau, Hermann Hesse's book on Siddhartha. I know that you mentioned your book that you
read Dostoevsky, Camus and Kafka when you were in college, that kind of thing. And so, all these people usually just bits
and pieces of the ideas from India, they don't really have a clear idea. So, one of the things I'd like to do is, we
don't even understand the ideas of Darwin and Einstein here. It's not because they're complicated, it's
because there are popular mis-perceptions of these ideas. There are a lot of popular mis-perceptions
of the big ideas from India as well. And I really enjoyed reading your book, talking
about, you know, how to look at some of those ideas. So, maybe... maybe one thing we can talk about
is a little bit about what you, how you reacted to some of the western authors, and then we'll
talk about like... your reaction to Alexander The Great, which I loved, on your video (Sadhguru
Laughs). Sadhguru: (Laughs) I'm still being trolled
for that Alexander The Great idiot, stuff in India. (Both laugh). Anyway, about the we... see, I mean, you're
talking about ideas. So, this is something very hard for western
societies to wrap around, wrap their head around this, the Indian perception because
even Mark Twain went out to say they are the most incomprehensible people though they are
the most interesting in some ways (George Hammond laughs). So, this is happening because see in our culture,
we don't give any significance to human thought or human ideas. Because all our ideas are coming from a limited
perception that we have had of some aspect. It is like, it is a million piece jigsaw but
you find three pieces and you think, "Oh, this is a buffalo, this is a bear." It's a wrong perception. So, whatever ideas you have, whatever thought
process you have, that is not of any significance in the Indian way of looking at things. The Indian way of looking at things is, is
about perceiving reality as it is beyond your sense perception. Why I'm saying beyond your sense perception
is because your eyes, your nostrils, your tongue, your touch, everything, all the senses
are actually culturally trained. What kind of smell is pleasant in America,
we think it's not so pleasant out here. What is very, very fragrant and wonderful
here, you may think it's too strong or something else. I'm saying the same... with taste it's probably
much more visible. In India, the spirit of India is chilly, all
right? Without spice, we can't exist. If you eat the spice that we eat, people will
think you're suffering Corona or something because you'll become both runny nose and
breathless (Both laugh). Both will happen to you (Laughs). So, these senses are culturally trained. There are genetic aspects, there are other
things. I think you said Mark Twain said the nephew
of the Satan visited, but satanism is not a genetic trait (Both laugh). Satan's nephew need not be Satan. He could be something else; we don't know
what the hell, but he could be something else. So, we don't rely on the senses, so we don't
rely on the thought, because all your thought is a consequence of what you've perceived
through your senses. And, it is a individual concoction. We may produce permutations and combinations
of variety of things in each mind and we think this is our idea. So, we don't look at life as a bunch of ideas,
we look at life as a certain... there's a fundamental reality, upon that, a consequent
reality has manifested itself. So, the consequent reality we look at it one
way and the fundamental reality we look at it another way. So, our perception has to become more profound
to understand the fundamental reality. And consequent reality, you need a certain
one kind of perception; for fundamental reality you need another kind of perception. So, the whole Indian culture is fundamentally
not about generating ideas, but sharpening your perception. When I use the word, perception, people are
generally referring in the western socie... it took me some time to understand this, people
are referring to their opinions as perceptions. No, perception is what you perceive. Like you see, this is light, this is darkness,
this is your perception. Well, even this can be debated because the...
if there is an owl, the bird owl, I think somewhere in the Huck Finn, there is something
about the owl (Laughs). If I remember right, it's been many many years
since I read this. George Hammond: Absolutely. Sadhguru: So, the what is light for you is
darkness for him, what is darkness for you is light for him. So, even about what is light and darkness
there is a debate in India. Because we see that what we perceive, the
way we perceive through sense organs is not absolute, it is only useful for our survival
process, but not an instrument of knowing. So, our whole focus is on knowing something,
not developing my own idea. So, it is not about Eastern idea versus Western
idea. West has many ideas with which they have created
societies which are comfortable for them, according to their ideas. But in the East, we are not concerned about
our ideas. We know our ideas are nothing; they will come
up today and tomorrow. The same idea which I thought is very smart
when I was eighteen, when I am twenty-five it looks stupid. What I thought was brilliant when I was twenty-five
looks absolutely stupid now. So, our ideas are not important for us. For us, how can I, you know, bring profoundness
to my perception, this is what it is about. That is why it looks so bizarrely different
(Laughs). George Hammond: Well, it's... you know, I
understand that and then I think but for the rest of the conversation just for the audience
here, we're going to make the assumption for the sake of the argument, as we say over here,
we're going to make the assumption that everything that is described in the yogic tradition is
all accurate – that is the perceptions, the experiences that are described, the experiences
of enlightenment, the experiences of what's happening from life to life, and so on. We're going to assume that that's all accurate
because it's the easiest way I think to now talk about that. Because even if... even if we just go based
on what we perceive and what our experiences are, and we record them, we're still going
to... we're still need some way of sorting them out between the people who... if there's
an objective reality. Sadhguru: If I can say this? George Hammond: Yeah, sure. Sadhguru: No, you should not assume it is
perfectly correct because this is a land of seekers. This is the land of seeking. There are no absolutes here. It doesn't matter who comes. Even those people whom we consider as divine
entities, when they came, all they got from us was questions and debate. Never could they ever give a commandment to
us because you cannot give a commandment to an Indian. An Indian is an endless argument because he
will argue with himself, he'll argue with everybody, because he's a seeker. He's a seeker; he's always seeking. And he knows the instruments and faculties
that we have right now is not good enough to know everything. So, he is constantly debating and arguing. So we should never assume that whatever we
are saying is absolute. Well, this is our level of perception right
now. George Hammond: Okay. Well, if we... well, that's fine. I agree that there's no absolutes like that
from the point of view of an individual looking out. But we kind of share this world. We each have our own individual perceptions
of it. And we are obviously trying... I loved your definition of a Guru by the way,
you know, as a dispeller of darkness, as opposed to someone who is telling everybody all the
time what they should do with their life. It's very, by the way, it's very difficult
pressure to someone who teaches other people like this, as you've done, because as I mentioned
for five years I watched Maharishi Mahesh Yogi teaching. And all the people, he gave and gave and gave,
and all the people around were taking, taking, taking. And, it's a very interesting pressure on the
personality. I was wondering, since you have the sense
of humor, whether that's what helps you, you know, resist this pressure of everybody asking
of you these questions, just like you said about others. How do you how do you react to them? Sadhguru: I don't see any pressure because... Let me put it this way, because when I'm... I'm very involved with every life around me,
not just humans, every kind of life around me, I'm very absolutely involved with whatever
I'm doing. So, I don't have a certain breadth of mind;
this is a great advantage I have. The breadth of my mind is the same as the
point of a needle. That is the breadth of my mind. So, in a given moment, my mind is always like
a needle, never like one vast piece of mind. Well like, it's my mind is not a universe;
my mind is just a point of a needle. That's why it penetrates into anything that
it sees. So, I don't have points... you know, there
is no pressure. You can't put pressure on a point of a needle
because it's so small (Both laugh). George Hammond: Well that's... that's a way
to solve the problem. A lot of people of course, you know, they...
they're under too much pressure if they stand on a stage and six people are watching them. Right? And it's already too much pressure on their
personality, so that... Sadhguru: Because they're... they're very
big people, they can take pressure. Because I am like a point of a needle, they...
people don't even know where I am. George Hammond: It's a very interesting way
to put it because the experience of... of... of enlightenment is supposed to broaden you
out, but you say it focuses you down to the point of the needle. Sadhguru: No, I don't know, whoever said broadening. But enlightenment in... In yogic culture, growth means dissolution. Growth does not mean getting bigger in your
size. Our idea of growth is dissolution. Because if you dissolve your limited persona,
then you are as vast as the universe. Because you are nothing. Because you are nothing, in some way you are
everything. So, I don't have the pressure of carrying
any knowledge in my head (Laughs). Because I don't carry anything when I walk
on the street, I'm totally empty in my head, so, I have never experienced any pressure
because there is no knowledge in me. Just a sharp sense of perception at that given
moment. The same thing if you ask me another time,
I may say something different. Because whatever it is, at that moment, I'm
not carrying knowledge, so there is no pressure. If you have knowledge, you will have to protect
it, you will have to defend it. I am not defending anything. I am all the time ridiculing, all this (Laughs). George Hammond: You know, you sound like Socrates,
you know. He said, I don't... you know, the one thing
that I know... There's a story about Socrates that, you know,
the Delphic Oracle told somebody from Athens that the smartest, the wisest man in Athens
was a man named Socrates. So, the man went back and found Socrates and
said the... Delphic Oracle said, "You're the wisest man
in Athens." And Socrates said, "That can't be true." But he thought about it, and after ten years
he said, "Well, it might be true. Everyone else thinks they know what they know. And I'm the only one who knows I don't know
what I know (Sadhguru laughs)." Sadhguru: That's great. I think Socrates was an Indian (Both laugh). George Hammond: Well, there was... I thought, a very perceptive scholar in the
19th Century wrote about the Pythagoras from the same Greek traditions. He said... he felt the whiff of Hindu pessimism
in his thinking. What he meant by that was his way of thinking
that life is eternal and and recurs and so on so forth, as if that person didn't... (Overlapping conversation) Sadhguru: Did you say Pythagoras? Did you say Pythagoras? Pythagoras was very influenced by the Indian
way of life. He did visit India if you know that. George Hammond: Yes, I do. Sadhguru: So, definitely because this is not
pessimism. This is just understanding that we are a minuscule
life in this cosmos if you look at it. The problem, the human problem right now is... See, this whole solar system is a kind of
a speck in this cosmos. If the entire solar system disappears tomorrow
morning, nobody will notice it. That's how small the solar system is. In that speck, Planet Earth is a micro speck. In that micro speck, San Francisco is a super
micro speck. But in that super micro speck, you are a big
man! (George laughs) This is the problem that human
beings are having. So, we are always... right from our childhood
we are told, you are really nothing in this existence. So, make something out of yourself, but you
are actually really nothing. And because you will be here and you will
be gone after some time... Countless number of people like this have
come and gone, and there is no any footprint of them anywhere in the world. Only those who are spiritually competent in
some way, something beyond their physical existence, those people we remember. We remember a Jesus, we remember Buddha, we
remember a Krishna, but all the other billions of people who must have exis... existed through
these... through these times or thousands of years, we don't remember any of them. So, this is the fundamental thing of being
Indian, that you're always told you're nothing, it doesn't matter you become a king, you wear
a crown, you walk around, you strut as much as you want, but you're really nothing. You're just like any other creature, like
an ant on the planet. You think an ant is nothing, well, you're
just smaller than that in this existence. So, make something else out of you. Unless you... you go beyond what is your physical
structure and psychological structure, nothing significant will happen in your life. This is the fundamental of the yogic ethos! George Hammond: There's a... we say here,
everyone puts their two cents in, you know. And I must be at least somewhat Indian because
I always think that the great teachers and the people who've influenced everyone put
in three cents rather than two cents. And so that's why they're remembered is that
they put in a one-and-a-half times what everybody else did (Sadhguru laughs) and they influenced
the way people think. Sadhguru: See, we must understand, since printing
press has come, all kinds of fools may be remembered, all right? (George laughs) Because (Laughs) about just
about anybody, something is written, a thousand years later, you can pick up that book and
you may see. But you must look back at history when it
was not written, but still people remembered certain people, not because of three cents
or four cents, because they had no cents (George laughs). Their value of life is not in cents and dollars,
the value of life was non-physical in nature, it's only those people who lived. George Hammond: So, let's talk about that. Your and the whole yoga tradition is that
our minds, our bodies are just our biological bodies, but we actually have other bodies. We actually have other ways of expressing
ourselves. And you can either perceive that or not perceived
that. And I'm curious from the point of view... I mean, obviously science doesn't think too
much of this because they're focused on the perception of biological body. But almost all the experiences that people
have had recently because of modern medicine, much more near death experiences, NDE's as
they call, those NDE's they are experiences of light, and India's always talked about
the light body, but we know from science that light is created by atoms with photons coming
out. Do you think that this light body is composed
of atoms with light coming out of them? And it's just a different structure, not biological? Sadhguru: Hmm (Both laugh). Now you're walking into a minefield, rather
walking me into a minefield. Because now what I say, you try to analyze
it or people try to analyze this with logical sense of what they have. We must understand our logic functions, essentially,
from already pre-registered data in our minds. What do you think is logically very correct,
somebody will argue with you as if you are completely wrong, because their logic is saying
something else. What is the basis of this? The kind of data that they have taken in is
very different from the kind of data that you have taken in. So, it doesn't matter, who is saying what. The important thing is this, what you consider
as my body or what is your body right now and what is your psychological framework right
now, both these things you did not have it in the same shape and form when you were born. When you were born, you were only this much. Now you became a full-grown man. How did this happen? So, body is an accumulation that has happened
over a period of time from the food that you've eaten. The food that you eat is just a piece of the
planet that you walk upon. All right? So, most people do not realize this till you
bury them. Only then they get the teaching from the maggots
that they are part of this Earth, otherwise they think they are from somewhere else. Just because we can prance around a little
bit, we think we are not part of this. All right? You're just a small outcrop. Nature's magnanimity that it has given you
an individual experience, otherwise, there's nothing individual about you. Everything is gathered from elsewhere. From this borrowed impressions and borrowed
body, you're walking around; if you recognize this, you would walk with utmost gracefulness
and gratefulness to everything. Then you would look at life differently. Now, about this light, whatever people are
talking about near-death experience, whatever. Instead of commenting on that, let me put
it this way – if you have to gather this much body and this much mental structure,
there must be something more fundamental, isn't it? Whatever that is, whatever that is. There, there must be something more fundamental. So, one thing that people may be experiencing
as light is – there is in yoga we see that you have five layers of body. One is food body it's called annamaya kosha,
which is literally means food body. The next one is manomaya kosha, that means
it's a mental body. This is a software. Food body is the hardware. Mental body is the software without which
even a single cell cannot function. There is an entire software where memories
of evolution, memory... genetic memories, perceptional memories, articulate, inarticulate
memories, all kinds of memories are imprinted upon every cell in the body. That is why you are a unique individual character
compared to somebody else, because there is a certain kind of memory in this. So that is a mental body. If hardware and software is there, will it
function by itself? No, you have to plug it into quality power. That is called as the energy body or pranamaya
kosha, which is what they may be talking about as light. Because when energy crackles, you may see
it as light, not necessarily as light, but you may perceive it as light. What is light is essentially... You see, for example, because we were talking
about owls, we think owls cannot see in the day. No, that is not their problem. They see too well. Their eyes are so sensitive that the brightness
of the sunlight kind of blinds them out. It is not that their eyes are not good; their
eyes are too good. That is the reason why they don't want to
do anything in the day because it's too much light. Right now, I am having that problem to too,
too much light. (Both laugh) Camera lights, I mean to say. George Hammond: It looks great from here (Both
laugh). (Overlapping conversation) Maybe, that's why
the one of the symbols of Athena is an owl. Because they see too much with wisdom. But it's interesting that you... you... you
put it that way. Because if we're all individuals, then we're
seeing this individually with our own impressions, how are we... how are we able to communicate
with each other about the common ground? Obviously, you're communicating with millions
of people about a common ground and you're focusing on experience and how to gain a better
perception about things. But we're trying to communicate with each
other, even though we're all individuals, so, there must be something in common or at
least we have some language or some way of trying to generate common experience. Sadhguru: See, in body, both of us are unique
creatures, all right? In body, we are absolutely unique. If you look at psychological structure also,
we are absolutely unique. Even if you put two people through the same
experiences, they will come out with different conclusions and different way it influences
them. So, even children born in the same house,
same genetics, same school, same food, but see how different they turn out. Parents cannot believe are these two children
ours (Both laugh), because they turn out so different. So, in mind, in body, we are very unique but
fundamentally as life, life is fundamentally same. When I say, life is same, I think I put this
probably in the book also you might have seen, I use this analogy usually to explain this
complex issue in a simple way is -- like you blow a soap bubble. When you blow soap bubble, well, this is my
bubble, this is your bubble, it is distinctly that, and we can compete which bubble is bigger
than which and all this stuff. But if it bursts, then we don't say, this
is my air versus your air because it all becomes one. So, similarly, what you're calling as my life
and your life is a... we've blown a bubble of our own. So, the external characteristics are unique,
and it's good it's unique, otherwise, there would be no transactional world. If all of us were absolutely same, what is
the point of a conversation right now, I'm asking. We are glad there is nobody like us because
one more person like you or me is trouble in the world. George Hammond: Absolutely (Both laugh). And the problem with us... Sadhguru: One is all the world can take (Both
laugh)! George Hammond: The problem with us as we're
enjoying causing trouble (Sadhguru laughs). Sadhguru: So... so the important thing is,
I was talking about these five layers or five sheaths of body – physical body, which is
called as food body, mental body, which is the body of impressions and memory, energy
body, which is a certain amount of energetic framework upon which the physical and mental
bodies are built. And then there is something called as vighyanamaya
kosha, which essentially means we can means, vighyan means, today the word is being loosely
used as science. Essentially vighyan means something that cannot
be perceived with five senses, but it's there. So, when you perceive that, that is called
vighyan. So, there is something which cannot be perceived
by the five senses. The energy body, the mental body, and the
physical body can be perceived by the five senses. The fourth dimension of the body cannot be
perceived, but it's a transition between physical nature and non-physical nature. So, there is a fifth body which is called
as the anandamaya kosha. Ananda literally in English translates as
bliss, but it's much more than that. It is more comprehensive. Another way of putting ananda is we can say
it is ecstasy or some people go about saying... because the word orgasmic is used in India
in a different way than the way it is used in the West. Orgasm is not connected with sexuality. Orgasm is something that must happen on your
cellular level. So, every Yogi is looking for an orgasmic
existence, not for an orgag... orgasmic experience; orgasmic existence at every moment of his
life, he is in a profound state of orgasmic experience because it is a certain way of
organizing your own chemical structure that you are always in that condition. So, it is not seen as a connected to a particular
act in life, but as a way of existence. So, this is called as bliss body or orgasmic
body. So, why we are calling it this is we do not
know what it is (George laughs). All we know is it is not physical in nature. But whenever we touch it, we become orgasmic. So, we are calling it orgasmic body or bliss
body or ecstatic body because when we touch it we become blissful or ecstatic or orgasmic. We do not know what it is. All we know is it's not physical in its nature. So, we are talking about it from the context
of our experience, not from the context of its content or its quality. We are not trying to describe its quality. For example, we say sugar means sweet; this
is our experience. This is not the quality of the sugar. The... we feel in on upon our tongue. See, if you put sugar on a stone, the stone
does not think sugar is sweet. Maybe many insects may not think it is sweet. But in... on our tongue, it is sweet. So, from our experience, we say sugar is sweet. In that context, we are calling this as bliss
body, ecstatic body, organic body because we do not know its quality. All we know is when we touch, we are blissed
out. George Hammond: It's a very interesting way
of describing it because I haven't heard it describe exactly like that before. But, basically you're saying is that the three
other bodies that are physical, when they touch this, what they experience in these
three bodies is the bliss... Sadhguru: Yes. George Hammond: ...as opposed to the consciousness
itself as bliss. It's very interesting. Your description also to talk about it from
from that point of view, we are all sharing... you know, I mean what is what is human civilization,
but an endless sharing of our experiences and what we think other people should do now. As you say, some people are dictatorial about
it and tell everybody else this is what you must do. In your books, you've said that. But it's interesting because, in a way the
Hugh Heffners of this world and the Don Juans of this world have gone around telling everybody
to have a certain kind of orgasmic experience, you know, sexual orgasmic experience. And the Yogis are saying, there's something
much better than that and it has the same quality in your mind. But it also, it also generates this enjoyment
in your mind and in your internal thing. So, let's assume again for the sake of the
argument that science will eventually be able to analyze the three levels that you said
are physical and that they're physical. So, I assume that the description of reincarnation
moving from one body to another is that you leave the biological body behind and you go
with with the other two. So, I wanted to tell you one story about an
NDE, a near death experience that I found most entertaining of all, because most people
have this very strict idea about what's supposed to happen or _____ (Unclear). There's a man, I almost don't like telling
this story because he went into a coma for three months because he got in a motorcycle
accident. So... Sadhguru: Hey, don't tell me the story now. (Overlapping conversation) I'm a motorcyclist
(Both laugh). Actually, today after this meeting, I'm riding. George Hammond: Oh, okay. Well, maybe I better skip (Sadhguru laughs). No. So, he goes into a coma for three months and
during the three... when he came out, he said... He had been a follower of a Buddhist guru. And when he said, when he was in this near
death experience, in the coma, that his guru came and explained to him that his life wasn't
complete yet, that he must go back and complete the work of carrying on his gurus work. And but, he also met another being, a more
feminine spirit, who said, "No, it's time for you to go to the next level. You should come with me." And he said that they basically argued for
the whole three months over which one he should do, and eventually he came back. But I thought it was an interesting experience
because most people just say, I'm being welcomed, I'm being told to do this. But here there was an argument over it. (Both laugh) Sadhguru: Well, about science, coming to it,
let me clear that first. I must tell you this, that today, we've brought
this forth with certain universities in America researching on people who have done simple
Inner Engineering practices. After ninety days of practice what happens,
one of the things that they have said is, in ninety days of practice your BDNF levels
could go up, up to three hundred percent. That means your mood and your experience is
kind of fine. And the increase in the endocannabinoids is
about seventy percent than what it was before. That means you're naturally blissed out. I'm saying we are creating a chemical soup. This is the most complex chemical factory. Now, we're learning to manage it well, so
that being blissed out is a natural consequence. Science is coming to it. Now, they have also opened a center (Laughs)
you know, named after me in the Harvard Medical School regarding Conscious Planet about cognition,
consciousness and you know, compassion. They are calling it that way. But about this man, I don't like that it happened
when he was on a motorcycle, but it's... isn't it unfortunate, a whole lot of people come
to more sense when they're in coma, than when they are conscious and alive (Both laugh)? About the... about he... a buddhist master
coming and calling him and this woman coming and calling him, that's typically American,
okay? That's Calif... I think this guy must be from California. George Hammond: He is very from California. Absolutely. You got it nailed on the head (Overlapping
conversation) (Both laugh) Sadhguru: So, that is fine but what I'm saying
is you are near death all the time. It's not that it has to happen because you
crashed your motorcycle or your surgery went wrong or something else. We are always near death. We are looking at life like this... The yogic way of looking is, inhalation is
life, exhalation is death. I think this book has not come to you yet;
in the month of February in 2020 I published a book called Death, The Inside Story. George Hammond: I have that one too (Overlapping
conversation). I was going to ask some questions. Sadhguru: So, you have that one. (Overlapping conversation) (Both laugh) So,
I thought that is published only in India; I thought its not in United States. George Hammond: No, we have it here too. Sadhguru: Okay, so, the important thing is
this. See, one... one dimension of life which has
remained uncorrupted by human mind, is death. You can say as many stories as you want, but
if it... in your experience if it was real, you would be willing to go when it's time;
joyfully you would go. So, the test whether really you had near death
experience and you realised something about it or not is, will you die with a smile on
your face or not? This is a clear test, all right (Both laugh)? This... there is a pre-test which we can set
up here; we call this the 'cobra test' because a cobra and a few other creatures have this
sense; even the bees have this sense. They look at you only from the point of your
chemistry, so, right from a very early childhood I've been handling cobras and, you know, in
India, it's a land of King Cobras. If you can go in the jungle and just pick
up a cobra just like that, not holding him by his head and all this stuff, just in the
middle... in the middle of his body you can just pick him up, he will just come without
any resistance. But if you show a little bit of anxiety within
you, if you show a little bit of fear within you, he will go for you because he senses
danger from you. So, he is only experiencing you as a chemical
soup. So, whether your soup is good or not if you
want to test, there is a cobra test or there is a death test when you die, will there be
a smile on your face or not, because you transit from one dimension of experience to another
in a comfortable manner. That can only happen if your experience of
life in some way has transcended the physical accumulation that you have. I am stressing on the accumulation because
your body is an accumulation. What you gather can be yours, can never ever
be you, isn't it? It's like saying, this... this cloth... this
piece of textile is me. The same thing, this textile that you call
as my body which we wove together with so many things, now you think it's you. That is a fundamental mistake. Once you have made that mistake, then you're
thinking up all kinds of things because the basis is wrong, it can never come to the right
thing. So, the important thing to see is what is
life, what is death – don't think on those terms. What is you, what is the nature of your existence
right now? If one experiences this, there is no life-death
question; it is all settled for once. George Hammond: It's like how you drive your
car is much more important than the car you drive or motorcycle in this case. Your... your method of doing it, your decision-making
and you also mentioned, I think in the Death Book about... Sadhguru: No, no, no, I... (Overlapping conversation) I would like to
tell you in 70s... in 70s and 80s when I was riding, I was riding a two-stroke single cylinder
250 CC Czechoslovakian motorcycle and today I'm riding modern machines and it's a world
of difference, so I think (Both laugh) the machine that you are riding also is very important
(Laughs). George Hammond: Well... I mean, certainly you write a lot about how
to re-work your body in order to have a better vehicle as well. But somebody can rework their body and then
be very miserable anyway. Sadhguru: See, on a very highly sophisticated
motorcycle, you can still crash and become comatose and imagine (George Hammond laughs)
both a monk and a... both a monk and a woman (Both laugh). George Hammond: Either way, its still possible
(Both laugh). So, you in... in the Death Book you mentioned
that sleep is a little bit like, you know, death, that falling asleep is a little bit
like that. And if you're... if you do that, if you...
in a way you said you can die with a smile on your face. Do people fall asleep with a smile on their
face too? I mean, is this the same... same sort of idea? Sadhguru: Yes, in a way it is. It's not absolutely true, but partially true. It is true, I would say, largely true. Because, how one sleeps in many ways... because
essentially sleep means, you are absent in a conscious way; you're still alive but you
are absent. Death also means you are absent but you are
not alive in terms of your body and everything; you're gone. So, actually when... when you put an animal
to death you say, you're putting it to sleep which is a very good expression actually,
because you're actually putting it to sleep, because sleep is absence, so is death absence. So, if you can go into sleep consciously,
joyfully, it's fantastic. So, this is one of the sadhanas that all the
seekers do is, the point of transition from wakefulness to sleep, they want to conduct
it consciously because if they can conduct that moment consciously, they know they will
be able to conduct that moment of transition from life to death also consciously. So, when we say consciously, what we are saying
is, death is a limited process. As life that you know right now is also a
limited process, so is death a limited process. So, the content of life, the life that you
are – not the body that you are, not the mind that you are, not the character that
you have become – but the life that you are is a much bigger phenomena than what your
physical body does, what your intellect or your mind does, your thoughts, your emotions,
your drama. This is psychological, physiological, social
drama; you can conduct it in a pleasant manner, in a... whichever way you like, all right. Whatever is your taste and your pleasure,
because different people like different things, it's fine with us, but the most important
thing is what is the quality of life? When the life is same, where is the question
of quality – this will arise. Because when life is same between you, me,
a dragonfly and a grasshopper, fundamentally life is same, so, where does the quality arise? Quality arises in the... in the volume of
life that you gather, in the sense, the whole yogic processes... Unfortunately, the way yoga has become in
the West, it makes me cry (Both laugh), just the way... just the way it's being taught
and understood. See, essentially one aspect of yoga, the most
vital aspect of yoga is to enhance the life that you are. How do you enhance the life that you are? Let's go back to the same analogy, you and
me are blowing soap bubbles, we should do it one day, okay? George Hammond: I do it (Both laugh). My daughters are still young enough (Both
laugh). Sadhguru: No, I'm saying between you and me,
we must do it one day. George Hammond: Oh yes, okay, we'll do that,
yes (George Hammond laughs). Sadhguru: Suppose... suppose your big... your
bubble is so big (Gestures), and my bubble is so big (Gestures), now I say, "See, this
is my bubble, it's fantastic." But what has happened to my bubble is, my
walls have become very thin but it's a huge bubble. My bubble will burst much more easily than
your bubble but it has a significance because it's big. So, this is what it means that as you make
your life bigger and bigger, the life that you are as it becomes more and more enlarged... I'm not talking about enlarging your social
footprint or, you know, any... if your physical presence or your mental prowess; these are
different aspects; these are faculties that we have. But the life that you are when it becomes
significant, you know life better than most people simply because it's become a significant
part of you. Right now, the most significant part of you
is not the muscles that you carry, nor the mind that you carry, not the information or
knowledge that you carry, the most significant aspect of your life is life itself within
you. When this happens, the other walls become
very thin; anytime it can burst. Once it bursts, it's gone. So, essentially what... Most people in the West don't understand this
because these questions keep coming to me, they want because they've read some Buddhist
texts, they want Nirvana. Nirvan means non-existence. Are you ready for becoming non-existent? No, no, the western idea of dying is you will
go somewhere else where the accommodations are better than California (George Hammond
laughs) and there are no fires. George Hammond: And there are no viruses,
yes. Well (Sadhguru laughs), one thing I thought
we... to be practical for our audience, I thought we would try to put at least one smile
on their face for when they go to sleep tonight (Sadhguru laughs). So, that they can go to sleep with a smile
on their face and (Overlapping conversation) Sadhguru: I thought it's morning. George, I thought its morning. Let them not go to sleep now. _____(Unclear) George Hammond: Well, yeah (Overlapping conversation)
(Sadhguru laughs) After stretching their intellects, maybe they'll real fall asleep so (Both laugh). But if you... one of the things you wrote
about, you talked about where you're going to go and whether it is better than California,
its like, you know, it reminds me of a joke that Groucho Marx used to say that, you know,
"I wouldn't belong to a club, any club that would have me as a comedian." (Correct Quote: "I refuse to join any club
who would have me as a member"). And I always think about that kind of exclusive
thinking when I read the descriptions by some yogis about Brahmaloka. And, it's like, it's a place which is so exclusive
that it won't even take me, you know. So, but one of the things about the fear I
think that people have about death, obviously comes from this whole idea of hell and punishment. And you wrote a great line about you can't
really be forced to suffer. And you have... you quoted Buddha in... This is in Inner Engineering, you've quoted
Buddha as saying that he will go to hell afterwards because he doesn't have to suffer so he can
help the people there, he won't suffer when he's there. It reminds me of when I wrote an essay maybe
forty years ago and one of my conclusions was you can send a man to hell but you can't
make him suffer (Sadhguru laughs). Sadhguru: See... George Hammond: I think if people understood
that... I think we got a lot of people are living
their lives afraid of what's going to happen afterwards. Sadhguru: See, the simple thing is this, that
right now if you look at your life, your pain and pleasure comes from within you. I may take a pin and prick but the pain comes
from within you. Pleasure also comes from within you. Joy and misery comes from within you. Agony and ecstasy comes from within you. Or in other words what I'm saying is the source
of human experience is within you. So, what is within you, I believe must happen
your way. It should not happen my way. Your experience should not happen my way. Your experience of life should happen your
way because the source of experience is within you, the seat of your experience is within
you. The problem is you are not sitting on the
seat, you're crawling all over the place (George Hammond laughs). You... you do not understand from where this
experience is being generated. See, right now, let us say I will abuse you. I won't, I'm just telling you, because (George
Hammond laughs) a lot of people are abusing me on the... you know, Twitter trolls all
the time, so, I'm telling you. I will abuse you in an Indian language. You think I'm saying an endearment because
you don't know the language. So, I'm saying, the insult itself does not
hurt you; it is the way you react which will hurt you, right? George Hammond: Yeah, absolutely. Sadhguru: So, if I call you an idiot in an
Indian language, you don't know; you think I am saying good morning to you (George Hammond
laughs). So, it is not the words, it is not the actions,
it is not nothing, it is the way you're responding or the way you're compulsively reacting which
hurts you. So, the human experience is caused from within
you. If you understand this, if you know this by
experience, will you create pleasantness or unpleasantness for yourself? Definitely, pleasantness for yourself? What you want for your neighbour sometimes
is debatable, but what you want for yourself is very clear – highest level of pleasantness,
isn't it? So, what is... what is heaven and hell is
– in human mind whatever is the highest level of pleasantness is heaven, whatever
is the lowest level of suffering is hell. When you know human experience is happening
from within you, obviously these are two descriptions of what a human being can go through. Either when they are alive or post that, either
within the body or when you're disembodied, both ways it can happen. The advantage when your bodied is, you have
a discretionary mind, you can choose. Right now, you can choose the comp... company
that you are in. Either to enjoy it or to suffer it there is
a choice. But once you've lost the discretionary mind,
which we call as death, when that happens then whatever is your tendency you will tend
to go in that. Suppose, it's your tendency to always negatively
react to things and suffer. Now, once you've lost your body and your discretionary
mind, your suffering will become million-fold simply because you can't decide to come out
of it. Right now, you go somewhere, you meet somebody,
you don't like something, wha... something that they've said, you will suffer something. But, when you're driving back, you say, "Hell
with him," and you start playing the music and enjoy yourself or do something because
you have a discretionary mind. But once this ability is gone, if you start
suffering, you can't stop it; if you start enjoying, you can't stop it. So, both joy and misery become extreme. So, this is called as hell and heaven because
you lost your discretionary mind, you are happening by your tendency. So, this is why in life it's very important
when you have a conscious, discretionary mind, you create a pleasant tendency within yourself
so that when you lose it also, you will be extremely pleasant, because pleasantness and
unpleasantness will get multiplied million-fold when you don't have a discretionary mind. See, why if you give a simple lollipop to
a child, he enjoys it so much that it is like the end of his life, because he doesn't have
the same sense of discretion that you have. That is why his sense of joy is so high. At the same time if you take away the lollipop,
his sense of suffering is also very high because again he does not have the same level of discretion
that you have. But once you are disembodied, you are not
just a child kind of loss of discretion, your discretion is completely absent, you go one
hundred percent by your tendencies. George Hammond: Yeah, that's a... it's a very
good description of first why things happen the way they do, but also why people are afraid
of this eventually, and as you mentioned and plenty of other teachers have mentioned as
well, turning within and making sure that you stay connected to your... to your more
substantial self is one way... Sadhguru: They can try sleeping with a smile
on (Laughs). George Hammond: Exactly (Both laugh). Sadhguru: But, see smile... smile should not
be what you do, smile is a consequence of a certain experience within you. Right now, people are trying to create consequence
which is a fundamental flaw of Western societies, now it has become universal across the planet
is – people have become goal-oriented. That means they want the fruit, not the root. They are not interested in the root. They just want the fruit. You know, when I was living on a farm doing
agriculture at one time, somebody came, one hotshot sales... this thing, and they come
and tell me, see they've got some spray which is something, something I don't know what,
some enzymes and stuff. And you said... they said, on my mango trees
I just have to spray it on the fruit and it will become so big and so sweet and everything. Then I looked at this because my wisdom says
I have to nourish the root of the mango tree, not the fruit. I said, "Why don't you spray it on your brains
and see, let's see what happens (Both laugh). Is it going to become big and sweet? Then we will see (Both laugh)." George Hammond: Did you get a good reaction
to that (Both laugh)? Sadhguru: No, no. I heard after one-and-a-half years after that,
they gave up that effort of selling that product (Both laugh). George Hammond: So, one of the things you
said earlier reminded me of something else you wrote about... about people always complaining,
no matter what people are complaining. And one of the things that I thought of maybe
several decades ago was that you can ag... people are always going to complain no matter
how good the situation is, and you can kind of tell the level of any civilization by what
people complain about (Sadhguru laughs). So... so maybe that'd be the best way to.... (Overlapping conversation). Sadhguru: Right now... right now, in America
they're saying, "I want to have haircut," when there was a lockdown, I'm saying. George Hammond: Yeah, yeah exactly (Both laugh). Sadhguru: People are dying around you and
you want to have a haircut (George Hammond: Exactly). Well, that says a lot. George Hammond: Obviously, it is not necessary. (Overlapping conversation) Sadhguru: Because you come from my generation,
we didn't want to have a haircut when we were young. George Hammond: Exactly (Laughs), and it wasn't
just to save money. Sadhguru: No, no, no (George Hammond laughs),
it was a very important thing, so I still stayed young, so I never had a haircut. George Hammond: Yeah, exactly (Both laugh). George Hammond: Well, one... I want to cover one other topic first before
we go to the questions; we have some questions from the audience. And that is, we got almost nothing that I
wanted to talk about, but we still covered almost everything, so that was great. But, one idea that I was thinking for the
future and in terms of just what everybody is sort of hoping for is some kind of human
civilization. Say, maybe the 22nd or 23rd Century where
we finally have knitted together the good ideas from all the different civilizations
just like in India all kinds of good ideas have been knitted into Indian civilization
because there's all subsets civilizations. And I'm not talking about like making civilization
homogenous. In America, we have New Orleans and we have
Chicago and for two hundred years they've been part of American culture, but they're
still very, very different. So, no one should worry that it'll get that
homogeneous. But, one idea that I wonder about is, what
idea from each culture or which ideas do you think will make the most major contribution
towards that civilization? Now, so I want to ask you what you thought
from India would be the ideal or the part of the civilization that would have the biggest
influence on that world civilization, that at least don't influence a, you know, part
of the population, but at least the leadership of the plan? Sadhguru: I think the most important contribution
that India can make is, this is not a land of believers; we are a land of seekers. That means there is a fundamental realisation
that it doesn't matter at what stage of life we are, there is too much in the universe
that we do not know. I do not know is the basis. Why it's like this is, in the yogic culture,
we always identify with our ignorance because our knowledge is so minuscule. If we have digested the libraries on the planet,
still our knowledge is very minuscule but our ignorance is boundless, so, we always
identify with our ignorance. If this comes to the world, there will be
more humility and grace on this planet. George Hammond: That's perfect answer. I have an idea called the "Imaginations horizon". That is that you're... you're always projecting
out where you want to go next with yourself. And ironically, the further you expand or
the more you go, the more you know, the further you can see ahead so your imagination is further
out. Now, you can have a fight between your imagination
and your... and your thinking. By thinking I can't get to where I want to
be, I can't get there and the further out it goes, the more miserable you could be and
I call that misery your conscience. No, it's what... it's what irritates you all
the time and so you've turned your imagination into a conscience rather than, you know, a
way to look forward, further and further. And it's the same idea, in the sense that
if you... if you realize that you don't know everything, you're going to get that. As the further out you see, the more you'll
realize that you aren't aware of many, many things. Sadhguru: George, is it okay, because the
time is almost getting over, if I say something, which is not so civilized, but you know, I'm
like this. I don't have to pretend... I don't have to pretend I'm civilized because
I'm not, all right (George Hammond laughs)? I'm very proud that nobody could civilize
me (Laughs). So, I want to say that (Overlapping conversation)
imagination... imagination is a rear-view mirror; it's not the windshield because your
imagination is dependent upon your memory. The exaggerated version of your memory is
imagination. So, let us not misunderstand the rear-view
mirror for a windshield because windshield is for you to look through. Rear-view mirror is to know what's behind
you, but giving you a perspective of how to travel so that you don't bang into your past
(George Hammond laughs). So that something... something productive... Imagination is a productive end of our memory
– that we are able to produce something of a memory bank that we have. So, I would say neither your memory nor imagination
should be a compulsively intrusive in your life. You must be able to sit here neither with
memory, nor with imagination. This is why I'm like... I know, I'm just surprised that you even read
the Death Book because I read one novel or something once in two years because if I have
time, I'll close my eyes and sit; I will not stare at a book. Most of the reading I did, I did in one or
two years when I was youth, when I was restless and I thought I will know something by going
to a library. I sat there and read all kinds of stuff. But since then, I've not found that useful
because if I close my eyes, I have a sense of perception of looking at any aspect without
really focusing on anything because this is not about trying to understand something. This is just developing a sharpness of perception. You don't try to perceive anything. Whatever comes your way, if your perception
is sharp, you will perceive it, that's all. So, windshield is not a place where you think
up things. When you travel for long, it happens, the
windshield gathers dust and bugs and stuff and whatever. This is past sticking to the future, you know. We have to clean it up, otherwise we will
not see properly, otherwise disasters will happen. So, imagination is not a projection of future. Imagination is just a re-jig of the past according
to the way we want. It's a productive past. Past is a dead past. You make it little productive using the experience
of life. But let us not ever think imagination is a
real projection of life. No, it's a projection of our mind. It's all right to do that. It's good to imagine something. But it is better to simply perceive what is
there, because that's where reality is. George Hammond: Well, we have just time, a
couple minutes left, for one question which I condensed from many questions that came
in. And they're all about the Isha Foundation. And they want you to imagine its future in
the next five, ten, fifteen years, just what you were talking about. You're talking about the perception, but you
can't project the future. But they... how do you see Isha Foundation,
where is it going next? One thing, I think people should pay attention
to that I'm familiar with the Foundation, is all the different projects that you've
done in India, the charitable projects and so on, but you're some of the people who are
watching were curious to hear you say something about the future of Isha. Sadhguru: So, as you know, if there's a building,
the foundation should not try to go anywhere. It should stay where it is. Only if it is there, stable... the purpose
of a foundation is stability. The purpose of a foundation is not to go somewhere
into space. So, my... my focus is not Isha Foundation. My focus is the world's population. Right now, Isha Foundation is a platform which
is very essential. For a long time I resisted creating an organisation
because I thought we could function without an organisation. Then it became impossible. As more and more people came in, it became
necessary to have a legal structure and a framework to handle money, to handle properties
and to handle various aspects of delivery. So, it is a foundation. It should not go anywhere. It should just stay stable and where it is. But, my dream when I first experienced this
unexplained levels of orgasmic blissfulness right across my body, I realized if I just
sit here without messing with my mind, I will be blissful every moment of my life. So, I set up a project that in next two-and-a-half
years... You know, there's no fool like a young fool. I was twenty-five and (Both laugh). I made a plan in two-and-a-half years time,
I will make the entire world's population blissful. At that time, the world's population was 5.6
billion people. I planned how I will make them blissful. See, nearly forty years, thirty-nine years,
here I am. Now, people say I am touching around one billion
people. But that's not my idea of the world. Today, there are 7.6 billion people. I know I will die a failure, but I want to
increase my percentages that we would like to see before we fall dead, there are more
blissful human beings than miserable human beings. If that much happens, it's great. But foundation should not go anywhere, it
should remain there stable as it is (Both laugh). George Hammond: I think those are the good
orders. Thank you very, very much. We really appreciate your taking the time
to talk to us. Sadhguru: Thank you, George. Thank You, George. It's a pleasure talking to you. George Hammond: It's a pleasure talking to
you. Sadhguru: And, we must do some Mark Twain
stuff on the Mississippi River sometime, a river boat or something together (Laughs). George Hammond: We should go on the river
boat together. Absolutely, that's a great idea. Anytime, anytime. (Overlapping conversation). Sadhguru: Do you know, I..., I... I floated down the Cauvery River. When I was seventeen, I floated down the Cauvery
River for over thirteen days on a bamboo raft (Laughs). George Hammond: Really? (Laughs) I bet you had some pretty good adventures. It was such an experience floating down the
river... (Overlapping conversation). Sadhguru: Huck Finn to the core. Huck Finn to the crore (core?). Maybe ,Huck Finn grew up and became civilized,
but I never. George Hammond: Yeah, exactly. You headed out for the terr... At the end of the book, he heads out for the
territory because he can't stand civilization. (Both laugh) Sadhguru: Thank you, George. Thank you. George Hammond: Great. Thank you very much. And so ends another event at the Commonwealth
Club and it's 118th year of enlightened discussion. Hope to have you back again, or at least meet
you on the Mississippi River again. Thank you so much. Sadhguru: To all of you, to all of you at
the Commonwealth Club, thank you very much for having me. Namaskaram. George Hammond: Our pleasure.
