>>> IT'S BEEN MORE THAN FOUR YEARS SINCE THE OBAMAS LEFT THE WHITE HOUSE AND A MOMENT THE PRESIDENT DESCRIBES AS BITTERSWEET IN HIS BOOK. >> HELLO, EVERYBODY. >> PARTLY BECAUSE THEY WERE LEAVING AND PARTLY BECAUSE OF WHAT HE THOUGHT MIGHT HAPPEN TO THE COUNTRY. >> YOU WROTE ABOUT PRESIDENT AND DARK SPIRITS AND HAD LONG BEEN LURKING ON THE EDGE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY COMING CENTER STAGE. DID YOU EVER THING IT WOULD GET THIS DARK? >> NO, I THOUGHT THERE WERE GUARD RAILS INSTITUTIONALLY AFTER TRUMP WAS ELECTED THAT YOU WOULD HAVE THE SO-CALLED REPUBLICAN ESTABLISHMENT WHO WOULD SAY OKAY, YOU KNOW, IT'S A PROBLEM IF THE WHITE HOUSE ISN'T -- DOESN'T SEEM TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT RUSSIAN MEDDLING OR IT'S A PROBLEM IF WE HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO IS SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, NEO-NAZIS MARCHING IN CHARLOTTESVILLE, THERE ARE GOOD PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES. THAT'S A LITTLE BEYOND THE PAIL. AND THE DEGREE TO WHICH WE DID NOT SEE THAT REPUBLICAN ESTABLISHMENT SAY HOLD ON TIME-OUT, THAT'S NOT ACCEPTABLE. THAT'S NOT WHO WE ARE BUT BE COWED INTO ACCEPTING IT AND JANUARY 6th WHAT ORIGINALLY WAS DON'T WORRY, THIS ISN'T GOING ANYWHERE, WE'RE JUST LETTING TRUMP AND OTHERS VENT AND THEN SUDDENLY YOU NOW HAVE LARGE PORTIONS OF AN ELECTED CONGRESS GOING ALONG WITH THE FALSEHOOD THAT THERE WERE PROBLEMS WITH THE ELECTION. >> AND THE LEADERSHIP OF THE GOP BRIEFLY FOR, YOU KNOW, ONE NIGHT WHEN THEY STILL HAD THIS SORT OF SCENT OF FEAR IN THEM GOING AGAINST THE PRESIDENT -- >> THEN POOF. SUDDENLY, EVERYBODY WAS BACK IN LINE. WHAT THE REASON FOR THAT IS BECAUSE THE BASE BELIEVED IT. THE BASE BELIEVED IT BECAUSE THIS HAD BEEN TOLD TO THEM NOT JUST BY THE PRESIDENT BUT BY THE MEDIA THAT THEY WATCH AND NOBODY STOOD UP AND SAID STOP. THIS IS ENOUGH. THIS IS NOT TRUE. I WON'T SAY NOBODY, LET ME CORRECT IT. THERE WERE SOME VERY BRAVE PEOPLE WHO DID THEIR JOBS LIKE THE SECRETARY OF STATE IN GEORGIA WHO WAS THEN VICIOUSLY ATTACKED FOR IT AND ALL THESE CONGRESSMAN SAID YOU KNOW WHAT? I'LL LOSE MY JOB. I'LL GET VOTED OUT OF OFFICE. ANOTHER WAY OF SAYING THIS IS I DIDN'T EXPECT THAT THERE WOULD BE SO FEW PEOPLE WHO WOULD SAY WELL, I DON'T MIND LOSING MY OFFICE BECAUSE THIS IS TOO IMPORTANT. AMERICA IS TOO IMPORTANT. >> SOME THINGS ARE MORE IMPORTANT -- >> OUR DEMOCRACY IS MORE IMPORTANT. WE DIDN'T SEE THAT. NOW, YOU KNOW, I'M STILL THE HOPE AND CHANGE GUY AND SO MY HOPE IS THAT THE TIDES WILL TURN BUT THAT DOES REQUIRE EACH OF US TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS EXPERIMENT IN DEMOCRACY IS NOT SELF-EXECUTING. IT DOESN'T HAPPEN AUTOMATICALLY. THESE VALUES AND TRUES WE HOLD SELF-EVIDENT, THIS IS IMPORTANT. WE'RE GOING TO SACRIFICE FOR IT AND STAND UP FOR IT EVEN WHEN IT'S NOT POLITICALLY CONVENIENT. >> YOU WRITE WE NEED TO EXPLAIN TO EACH OTHER WHO WE ARE AND WHERE WE'RE GOING. AS SOMEBODY WHO HAS DEDICATED MYSELF TO STORY TELLING THAT RESONATES WITH ME. ARE WE AS A COUNTRY STILL WILLING TO LISTEN TO EACH OTHER'S STORIES? >> THIS IS THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE WE HAVE IS THAT WE DON'T HAVE THE KINDS OF SHARED STORIES WE USED TO. THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A DIVISION ALONG RACE. WE HAVE 400 YEARS OF WHITES AND BLACKS NOT BEING ABLE TO HAVE SHARED EXPERIENCES BECAUSE OF SLAVERY AND SEGREGATION AND SO FORTH BUT WITHIN THE COMMUNITY, THE STORIES OF KIDS GROWING UP IN MANHATTAN AND THE STORIES OF KIDDING GROWS UP IN ABILENE, TEXAS AND THE STORIES OF THE KID WHO IS GROWING UP IN MONTANA, THOSE STORIES NO LONGER MEET PARTLY BECAUSE OF THE SEGMENT, THE SILOING OF THE MEDIA, THE INTERNET, ENTERTAINMENT. WE OCCUPY DIFFERENT WORLDS AND IT BECOMES THAT MUCH MORE DIFFICULT FOR US TO HEAR EACH OTHER, SEE EACH OTHER. THE THING I LEARNED FIRST AS AN ORGANIZER AND ELECTED OFFICIAL AS A POLITICIAN WAS WHEN YOU START HEARING PEOPLE'S STORIES, YOU ALWAYS FIND A THREAD OF YOUR OWN STORY IN SOMEBODY ELSE. AND THE MINUTE THAT RECOGNITION HAPPENS, THAT'S THE BASIS FOR A COMMUNITY. >> IT SEEMS LIKE SOMETHING HAS CHANGED SO THAT IT'S BECOME SO EXTREME THAT WE'RE NOT EVEN ALLOWING OURSELVES TO GET INTO A POSITION WHERE WE CAN SEE THAT COMMONALITY. I HEARD IN THE PAST YOU TALK ABOUT WHEN YOU WERE STARTING OUT IN POLITICS, YOU GO TO SOUTHERN ILLINOIS TO CONSERVATIVE DISTRICTS. >> THEY GAVE ME A HEARING. >> YEAH. >> I THINK THAT'S CHANGED. PART OF IT IS THE NATIONALIZATION OF MEDIA, THE NATIONALIZATION OF POLITICS. THE FACT IS THAT YOU USED TO VA WILL THE OF LOCAL NEWSPAPERS AND TV STATIONS. PEOPLE WEREN'T HAVING HIGHLY IDEOLOGICAL DEBATES BUT FOCUSED ON WHAT IS HAPPENING DAY TO DAY AND PART OF IT IS THE STRUCTURE OF THE ECONOMY AND COMMUNITY. IT USED TO BE A HIGH SCHOOL, THE AVERAGE HIGH SCHOOL IN AMERICA, THE AVERAGE PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOL, YOU WOULD HAVE THE BANKERS' KID AND JANITOR'S KID IN THE SAME SCHOOL AND THEY WOULD INTERACT AND THEIR PARENTS WOULD BE GOING TO THE SAME FOOTBALL GAME AND WOULD HAVE TO KNOW EACH OTHER AND IF IT TURNED OUT THERE WAS A TALENTED KID OF A JANITOR WHO ALSO HAPPENED TO BE ON THE FOOTBALL TEAM, THE BANKER PRESIDENT MIGHT SAY HEY, WHY DON'T YOU COME WORK AT THE BANK HERE BECAUSE HE KNEW THAT PERSON. NOW, WE HAVE MORE ECONOMIC STRIKE THAT STRATIFICATION AND YOU HAVE THE MEDIA, NOT JUST WALTER CRONKITE BUT 1,000 DIFFERENT VENUES. THAT CONTRIBUTED TO THE SENSE THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING IN COMMON SO SO MUCH WORK IS GOING TO HAVE TO INVOLVE NOT JUST POLICY BUT IT'S ALSO HOW DO WE CREATE INSTITUTIONS AND OCCASIONS IN WHICH WE CAN COME TOGETHER AND HAVE A CONVERSATION? >> NO "PROMISE LAND" YOU CEDA SAY DEMOCRACY SEEMS TO BE TEETERING. THE BIG LIE PUSHED BY NOT ONLY THE FORMER PRESIDENT BUT REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS. ARE WE STILL JUST TEETERING ON THE BRINK OR IN CRISIS? >> WELL, I THINK WE HAVE TO WORRY WHEN ONE OF OUR MAJOR POLITICAL PARTIES IS WILLING TO EMBRACE A WAY OF THINKING ABOUT OUR DEMOCRACY THAT WOULD BE UNRECOGNIZABLE AND UNACCEPTABLE FIVE YEARS AGO OR A DECADE AGO. WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE LAWS THAT ARE BEING PASSED AT THE STATE LEGISLATIVE LEVEL WHERE LEGISLATORS ARE BASICALLY SAYING WE'RE GOING TO TAKE AWAY THE CERTIFICATION OF ELECTION PROCESSES FROM CIVIL SERVANTS, SECRETARIES OF STATE, PEOPLE COUNTING BALLOTS AND PUT IT IN THE HANDS OF PARTISAN LEGISLATORS THAT MAY OR MAY NOT DECIDE THAT A STATE ELECTORAL VOTE SHOULD GO TO ONE PERSON OR ANOTHER AND WHEN THAT'S ALL DONE AGAINST THE BACKDROP OF LARGE NUMBERS OF REPUBLICANS HAVING BEEN CONVINCED WRONGLY THAT THERE WAS SOMETHING FISHY ABOUT THE LAST ELECTION, WE HAVE A PROBLEM AND THIS IS PART OF THE REASON WHY I THINK THE CONVERSATION ABOUT VOTING RIGHTS AT A NATIONAL LEVEL IS IMPORTANT. THIS IS WHY I THINK CONVERSATIONS ABOUT SOME OF THE INSTITUTIONAL STRUCTURAL BARRIERS TO EMOCRACY LIKE THE ELIMINATION OF THE FILIBUSTERBAT IMPORTANT FOR US TO FIGURE OUT HOW DO WE START ONCE AGAIN BEING ABLE TO TELL A COMMON STORY WHERE THIS GOES. THAT IS NOT JUST THE JOB OF POLITICIANS BUT ELECTED OFFICIALS HAVE AN I'M IMPORTANT ROLE. THAT'S WHERE THE MEDIA HAS TO PLAY AN IMPORTANT ROLE AND COMPANIES HAVE TO PLAY AN IMPORTANT ROLE. ALL OF US AS CITIZENS HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT THE PATH FORWARD WILL NOT HAPPEN IN ONE BANG BUT A SERIES OF STEPS. YOU LOOK AT HUNGRY AND POLAND, THAT OBVIOUSLY DID NOT HAVE THE SAME TRADITIONS DEMOCRATIC TRADITIONS THEY DID. THEY WEREN'T AS DEEPLY ROOTED AND YET AS RECENTLY AS TEN YEARS AGO, WE'RE FUNCTIONING DEMOCRACIES AND NOW ESSENTIALLY HAVE BECOME -- >> DEMOCRACIES ALWAYS DIE IN A MILITARY COUP. DEMOCRACY DIES AT THE BALLOT BOX. >> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. VLADIMIR PUTIN GETS ELECTED
