LOST TECHNOLOGY- Human History Is NOT What We Were Told- NEW Graham Hancock

we're the next Lost Civilization that's what that's what our civilization is today we don't have to be but choices need to be made we have to we have to change the path that all the big industrialized technological countries are on right now uh otherwise we're there's not even going to take a cosmic disaster we're going to bring ourselves down yeah lapse and destroy our civilization uh lose all the support systems that we've relied upon and be put in a place where we have to rely only on ourselves again and that would be very difficult that's why I think our civilization today is is fragile um because it looks strong it's capable of incredible technological Feats but psychically it's very fragile and not ready to to confront uh the chaos that may that that may come I've been looking forward to having a podcast with Graham Hancock for over a decade now since I first became familiar with his work and this podcast did not disappoint we talked about everything I wanted to talk to Graham about including some of the information that I received from Matthias de Stefano which posits the actual mechanism behind some of these magnificent megalists that he's been researching as an investigative journalist so we go through that whole story and really share and Converse with what I've received from Matthias and what he's discovered from being on the ground and all the research that he's put into it for his really his life's work in a big way in addition to the great fiction works that we also discuss and also the surprising blowback that he's received from mainstream culture which is both surprising and not surprising given the current Zeitgeist we also talk about psychedelics and posit the potential reality of Darker forces that exist that have been pointed to from the Gnostic Traditions which he's very familiar you're with so this is a wide-ranging conversation that covers a variety of different topics and I'm just thrilled to be able to share it with all of you so please enjoy this podcast with Graham Hancock Graham Hancock this has been a while in the making such a pleasure to have you on the show nice to be with you Aubry I wish I wish I could be present with you in person but this has just been a hectic trip across the U.S for me I understand I understand your show is such a hit congratulations I mean number one show on Netflix thank you yeah yeah it's it's uh it's called ancient apocalypse it has been it has been doing very well I'm happy that it's held up because Netflix released hundreds of new shows every week and and what was particularly uh pleasing was that that for a while it was was number two of all television shows on Netflix including dramas like the crown you know which are which are obviously and honestly popular it's unusual for a docu-series to get to get that much attention but obviously I'm happy about that at the same time it's brought down a shitstorm of criticism on on my head yeah it's simultaneously the Vindication of people who are highly interested and and really enjoying your work and then the establishment that is obviously aroused into uh into some Rancor here indeed so so if you could if you could our audience you know is probably pretty familiar with your theory and your work so just so people have a landscape quickly about what your primary thesis is in this ancient apocalypse also was the topic of magicians of the Gods which I remember reading when it came out uh outstanding both of those bodies of work but if you could just give a brief summary for those people who either want to be refreshed or aren't familiar with uh with the thesis that you're talking about in these in these works well what I've been looking into for for the past 30 years plus has has been the possibility of a of a major forgotten episode in the human story uh and and that is A Lost Civilization that flourished during the Ice Age uh but that that that was almost completely destroyed in the series of cataclysms that brought the ice age to an end between 12 800 and 11 600 years ago and in geological terms and indeed human terms that's very recently um I'm not talking about a high-tech civilization certainly not we should not be looking for us for ourselves in the past I'm not talking about cell phones I'm not talking about Rockets going to the Moon uh I'm talking about a civilization that mapped the Earth that explored the world that was primarily based upon coastlines which are now flooded beneath the 400 foot sea level rise that took place at the end of the Ice Age um and and um which had a deep understanding of astronomy and geometry uh I would say at least equivalent to Western civilizations understanding in the mid to late 18th century so I I want to be clear I'm not talking about um about what we might regard as an advanced civilization in terms of in terms of Technology I'm talking about an advanced civilization in terms of a level of knowledge that is not normally attributed to Ice Age population uh and I'm also suggesting that that I'll use the word Advanced that that that advanced civilization coexisted with the hunter-gatherer populations who we know for sure were also present uh in the world at that time and this is often assumed to be a rather a bizarre idea until we remember that our own civilization today if we can even call it a civilization anymore our own civilization today coexists still with hunter-gatherer people's uh particularly in the in the Amazon rainforest where there are hunter-gatherer groups who who don't even know that we exist but also in in places like the namibian desert where where the San uh hunter-gatherers pursue a very different way of life to our own yet these life ways coexist and I'm suggesting that this was the case during the Ice Age as well when you go through and you watch Ancient apocalypse and go through each of these different sites it becomes very difficult to imagine how the evidence that you're presenting is actually refuted you know this is this is the interesting thing about your work is it's it's so persuasive when you actually start looking at looking at everything collectively and start to weave this this Global picture of what happened that it's consistently surprising to me to see people you know attacking and it's not surprising from a psychological perspective I understand it but the preponderance of evidence that you're providing is is really enormous as you go through all of these different sacred sites and then there's that you know the black layer of death that you find in the in the rocks and there's so many different things but if you had to if you had to steal man their argument the mainstream narrative argument if you had a steel man it and say like all right this is the best this is the best refutation of this Collective thesis that I have what would what would you say is their steel man argument I haven't seen a really effective refutation and by the way I'd like to add that that the ancient apocalypse docu-series uh builds upon more than 30 years of work in in my books uh inevitably when you're making a docu-series where episodes are half an hour long uh even in Eight Episodes it's not possible to to represent the entire body of evidence upon which I Rely um but it's interesting that that the reactions to it by the mainstream have not by and large got to grips with with what I'm proposing but have simply been a a deluge of uh insults and and ad hominem attacks particularly accusing me of um of promoting racism and and white supremacy uh although race is not mentioned uh ever in ancient apocalypse uh that is the most common attack that is that is that is made on on my work and I I find that personally hurtful since I'm I'm married to a woman of a woman of color and and since I have seven mixed race grandchildren uh you know who who will be exposed to these these kind of lies that are that are being spread about me in order to cancel me in order to get people to just turn off and not even and not even give my work a chance and I I think that shows a kind of desperation and and also lack of moral rigor on the part of of those who wish to see uh my work shut down this seems to be symptomatic of something that's in society right now where actual discourse between opposing sides has been completely forgotten this is old idea of the Marquis De Queensbury of debate right like where we had some some there's none of that anymore it's just whatever the lowest blow whatever the whatever the most hurtful thing that one side can say without even addressing the issue it seems like we've been in this race to the bottom not and it's it's actually you know archeology is typically a cool corner of the of the science debate and of of pup you know popular culture but even in this it seems like you challenge Empire or the narrative you challenge the mainstream anywhere and they take it as a threat everywhere it seems is what we're what we're experiencing that's that's right and although although in some ways you're right to say that archeology is a cool corner of this there's not been too much heated debate it's important to to remember that archeology claims to hold the keys to the human past and it claims to hold Soul ownership of the human past I think this is part of the reason why the reaction to my work has been has been so intense because I'm not an archaeologist and I've never claimed to be an archaeologist I'm a journalist with an interest in investigating subjects that that some people prefer to avoid and in my case that subject has been the pre-history of of humanity and somehow it seems outrageous to the key holders that an outsider should come in and say they may have missed something incredibly important they often they often claim that I'm they often claim that I'm claiming that there's some sort of conspiracy theory you know some sort of conspiracy in archeology and and in addition to be being told that I'm promoting racism and white supremacy I'm also being told that I'm promoting conspiracy theories but I don't claim any conspiracy in archeology I've think archeology is simply working the way that most disciplines work that they get locked into a particular point of view the right word for that is a paradigm that that Paradigm governs how they react to new data that the tendency once you're locked into a particular worldview in a particular Paradigm is to defend that to the death uh in in every way that you can your career depends upon it uh your the the Applause of your colleagues depends depends upon it research funding depends upon it there are so many examples I give many of them in in my 29 book 2019 book America before there are so many examples of archaeologists who have stepped outside uh the the narrow bounds of accepted Theory and Archeology such as Jackson Mars in in the Bluefish caves in the Yukon who back in the 80s was proposing that human beings had been in the Americas at least 24 000 years ago and this went against the then prevailing narrative that was called Clovis first which held that there had been no humans in the Americas until around 13 400 years ago well instead of of actually investigating findings the academy turned upon Him viciously all his research funding was stripped away he was humiliated at conferences former friends would pass him by in corridors and completely ignore him he was he was snubbed in every possible way and huge efforts were made to discredit his work but you know what he was right back in 2000 2021 the evidence came out that he'd been absolutely right at Bluefish caves that human beings had been there 24 000 years ago and now of course we know that the whole club is first narrative is bust at complete nonsense that human beings have been in America even longer than 24 000 years ago uh I I cite evidence in in that 2019 book America before of humans being in the Americas 130 000 years ago ten times as long as the Clovis so-called Clovis culture and that evidence doesn't come actually from outside archeology it comes from from a leading uh group of archaeologists at the University of San Diego and it's on display in the San Diego Natural History Museum they found evidence of human tool use uh slaughtering and and butchering uh a mastodon 130 000 years ago just just south of San Diego and again rather than and consider the implications of this the response of the rest of archeology has been to dismiss it sneer in it deny that it's possible on the grounds that okay we were wrong about Clovis but we don't accept that human beings have been in the Americas for more than 30 000 years so somebody's saying humans have been in the Americas for 130 000 years has just got to be wrong and this is just it's just so unfortunate that that there's this aspect of science which instead of responding with curiosity to new evidence and new claims just tries to shut those down and this is greatly to the disadvantage of Science in the long run but and I'll I'll complete this long rant in a moment but in the long run it is the case with all paradigms that eventually the evidence that cannot be explained by the Paradigm builds up to such a level that it becomes ridiculous to keep faith in the old Paradigm and that's when paradigms shift and we have a a revolution in science taking place and that has happened a number of times in the past and I believe it's going to happen over our understanding of the prehistory of humanity as well yeah it kind of evokes the image of of tectonic plates that are kind of stuck and they want to move they want to move but they're they're kind of Frozen and the paradigm's Frozen and then they finally move and there's a big earthquake and it frees it up and everything shakes and a lot of things topple and then you know everything settles on the on the back side yeah and that comes the conventional wisdom the accepted knowledge for a for a period of time and then very often that eventually that new paradigm will also be will also be overthrown by it I just have a feeling though that if if someone comes to overthrow your Paradigm with new evidence and you're a great grandfather out there somewhere you won't look at them the same way but the narrative currently is looking at you you know I think there's a there's a flexibility of mind that needs to we really need to evolve as a species because what you're talking about has been seen in every different field of science I mean take the example of ignis semi-wise right who worked in OBG byn and notice that hand washing had a significant impact on the survivability of mothers and children in this process and then he was literally thrown in an insane asylum and beaten to death dying of sepsis probably from the wounds that weren't cleaned from dirty hands right like the irony of this and then given a Nobel Prize you know posthumously for his work but this is there's so many examples of that where someone comes up with a theory and they're just completely you know completely uh ousted and attacked and and this is this is uh this is symptomatic of something that needs to shift I hope if I hope if somebody presented compelling evidence that that I'm wrong that there may have been a another kind of civilization present in the world during the Ice Age as well as hunter-gatherers I hope that if somebody came up with really compelling evidence on that uh then I would be open to consider it I'm I'm human I'm filled with error also uh I also get stuck in my own rut there's no there's no doubt about that but I would I would want to be I would want to be open to that the problem is that no such compelling evidence has been presented it just it's just really straightforward dismissals appeals to Authority uh saying Hancock doesn't know what he's talking about Hancock isn't an archaeologist how dare he even suggest this uh a journalist in the Guardian newspaper in England um asked actually why Netflix had allowed the series uh as though you know people are not capable of making up their own minds this is part of the problem with this with this um Outlook of of the so-called experts in our society is that they despise the the man and the woman in the street uh and and don't believe that they're capable of reaching rational decisions about things without being told what to think and I find myself more and more embroiled in this it's it's a much bigger debate than just the debate about the possibility of A Lost Civilization um it's a debate about free thinking and Free Speech in our society today yeah absolutely uh it almost seems like there's this energy that you could almost if you wanted to if you wanted to take some of the mythological minds of of our past you could you could deify it and it would be this kind of this kind of stuck judgmental kind of kind of demonic entity I'm not suggesting that this exists actually but there's this energy that people are participating in that is actually an energy that is needs to be you know needs to deeply deeply evolve you know and really it has to evolve in all of our minds as we participate in that energy ourselves to whatever small degree that we do and it seems like if we don't if we don't society's going to really suffer absolutely I I think we are at one of those turning points in the human story right now um and and uh you know what is needed is is a more loving more open more caring view rather than just these constant attempts at character assassination from anybody who disagrees with the with the mainstream um and and look where where the so-called experts have have got us over the over the years uh whether they're experts in in science whether there are our so-called political leaders who are just a bunch of absolute [ __ ] uh not qualified to lead not qualified to lead anything but stirring up hatred and fear and suspicion in our society we need to move on from from this tribal mindset there what may have been a time when when a tribal mindset was was a good thing to have but in this interconnected world that we live in today it's leading to to to real Horrors to taking place and um I think I think we need to I want to make clear that I'm completely against government and especially I I just don't see the point of government at all so so many of the problems in our world are are caused by very bad leadership and I'm especially against the notion of a one-world government uh I I test and hate that idea I want to see as little government as possible and if I were to characterize myself as anything I would say I'm an anarchist which is literally means without without government um but but uh what is needed is rather than having this this tribal and nationalistic mindset let's recognize the Beauty and the diversity of human culture let's recognize uh that this diversity is a wonderful thing that that it adds to the depth and and value of of The Human Experience but let's not go on defining our tribe as the best and every other tribe as the worst let's not let's not set ourselves up against one another in in this way it's been my privilege to travel the world extensively for from for for almost all my adult life uh and to live in in a number of different countries and to get deeply acquainted with a number of different cultures and what I've found uh and I it should be a common place this that the people are absolutely the same all over the world their skin color is completely unimportant even gender is unimportant people are fundamentally the same we have the same hopes the same dreams we all love our kids in the same way we all want to make something of Our Lives it doesn't matter you know whether you're a hunter-gatherer in in Namibia or or or a banker in New York fundamentals are are all the same and and I think it's it's time that we stopped using tribal mentalities and recognized that we're all part of one great Human family uh and and uh rather than patriotism we should have loyalty to the whole human race and I repeat that does not mean a one-world government that means much less government and human beings relating to each other rather than allowing governments and leaders to stir up hatred and fear and suspicion amongst us it seems that people who might be skeptical of the human goodness and and how and whether we have the Consciousness to actually live peacefully amongst ourselves without government we may be underestimating the impact that the structures of Empire that government is actually having on um degrading our own goodness and degrading our own Consciousness by enforcing their tyranny and actually enforcing these crazy laws and rules and then stirring up this divisiveness and hatred and and patterning for us the most deplorable Behavior we may be actually underestimating the impact the government is having and then also underestimating the goodness of people if we actually removed this force and I'm not saying remove it like like go you know antifa and I know you're not saying that either it's not like attack the government it's the opposite of that it's just saying like let go of the of the talons that you have into the into the goodness of humanity yeah and and um of course it's in the interests of all governing powers uh to persuade us the people that we can't function without them uh and they very cleverly use our money uh in PR campaigns uh in order to explain it to persuade us of that and and I've found that many people take for granted that the human race couldn't just couldn't function without governments uh but that that in my view is simply not true uh we are being we are being told a story here uh and I far from keeping the peace I I see governments as as generating War uh because that's in their their interests if we if they make us hate our our neighbors if they make us hate uh other cultures um and fear other cultures then that strengthens their their hand so I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you a wild story and if people if people accuse you of wild stories then they're gonna accuse me of even Wilder stories so maybe I can take a few arrows here for you and take take a little pressure off of people slinging rocks at you so I've become quite close friends with uh with a gentleman named Matthias DiStefano and he remembers many of his past lives the most notable of which was he was a mother in a civilization he calls chem which was in the Nile Basin and he and it was for Egypt yeah yep and he was he was there roughly you know at the end of at the end of the final um the final spasms of the Ice Age 9600 BC he was there right as they right as you know civilization started to repopulate after after the floods and after the cataclysms and so he wasn't there in Atlantis but his descendants were Atlantean so an Atlantis to him was there was one Central Atlantis but there was many actual outposts in different cities all in all in you know water regions right they were they were a seafaring culture and they were in a variety of different places and then as you know the theory really everything that he remembers all the stories that he was told and they would they would make right maps of the stars and do so many things that actually corresponded with everything you were saying but as as you were saying the the meteors came and they started striking the Earth in many different places and the water started to rise the there was some immediate destruction but most of the Atlantean actually culture was able to was able to spread and disperse so it wasn't like I think we see images on movies and TV where Atlantis was just destroyed in a minute actually a lot of them thousands tens of thousands were able to get onto boats and travel to different sites around the world and higher higher ground sites and he describes the civilizations as megalithic you know but not Advanced they were still riding around in donkeys but they had these giant mega lists and the technology the technology that they had was a spiritual technology and they had four different guilds that were correlated to the elements so they had the water Guild and this is his this is you know what what passed down from the Atlantean culture and they had the water Guild the Earth Guild the air Guild and the fire Guild and they practiced in these deep spiritual training with psychedelic compounds and with all of the different advantages that they had and what he was he was a part of uh the Water Guild and what the water Guild would do was the water Guild was involved in actually cutting the stones so they would they would drip water in a line across the stones and then they they would form resin they would get in resonance with the water and actually use the water to actually cut the stones so some of the Smooth Cuts of these stones that don't look like they had chisel work the explanation yeah they were using they were using water now of course this is wild and and our field of belief wouldn't even open wild it's really wild because we've been schooled to think that such ideas exactly exactly there's actually nothing particularly wild about it because we really are quite ignorant on the mystery of Consciousness and and and what it is what it is to be a human being I mean many mainstream scientists will say gosh somebody's speaking about reincarnation what rubbish there's no such thing as um as as reincarnation but how do they how can they possibly know that well also the University of the University of Virginia has over 2 000 case studies was the lead figure in investigating that he he went you see our culture Western culture um is uh profoundly materialistic uh and it and it utterly rejects any idea of reincarnation because that implies that there's some non-material aspect of Consciousness which can survive death and can be reborn in a body and that just flies completely in the face of the whole materialistic bias of Western culture and as a result uh children brought up in Western culture are subjected to this ideology of materialism from a very early age but what uh what Ian Stevenson found is that up to the age of about seven uh and he documented this in extremely scientific way up to the children who remember past lives as the title of the book up to the age of about seven uh many children in many different cultures have memories of past lives but in Western culture uh those memories are discouraged by their parents and by their education system so so Stevenson went to India where there is not this discouragement of of belief in past lives and he began interviewing young children there and he found astonishing evidence again it's fully published and fully documented in his book children who remember past lives uh he found absolutely compelling evidence that reincarnation did take place kids who would remember being born in a village 300 miles away Who would know of a certain object hidden under the eaves of a house in that place where they had once lived he was able to go and test that and again The Establishment the the the the the academy has just reacted to this with with derision because it doesn't fit their Paradigm but what did they know and what do we know really about about the human creature we're just beginning to scratch the service conscious Consciousness is such a huge mystery of Science and fundamentally when we talk about reincarnation we're talking about Consciousness surviving physical death uh and and passing on uh and and to me that makes a a great deal of sense and I don't think it should be sneered at I think it's something that's worthy of of further investigation so I'm very interested to hear uh the the story that you're telling about Matthias but particularly since since what he's remembering uh Accords very much with uh with with good geological evidence of what happened at the end of the Ice Age absolutely and particularly so since since um I also think that Atlantis wasn't one place um it was distributed uh around the best real estate on Earth the coastal lands during the Ice Age um and and it may have it may have taken a a principled position not to interfere with the lives of other cultures that it coexisted with or to have minimal contact with them but when the cataclysm came when those those coastlines were flooded when when the the That civilization began to go down there certainly were survivors large numbers of survivors and the places that they took Refuge were amongst hunter-gatherer populations and I've made this point a number of times before but if our civilization today were to collapse and I think that's a real possibility uh if it were to fall apart completely because it's such a fragile civilization really I mean nobody very few people in our civilization have that have a faintest clue about how to survive I'm one of them actually um and um the only place that the only people on planet Earth who really have got the business of survival in adverse circumstances totally nailed down are the hunter-gatherers they're the ones who actually know how to survive and it would be quite natural for survivors of our so-called Advanced civilization to take refuge amongst hunter-gatherer populations and learn from them and at the same time perhaps teach them some of what we know and that's really all that's being said about about Atlantis in in my argument so I'm fascinated to hear that uh Matthias de savano has had us life experiences in this in this realm yeah absolutely and and just to go back on the idea of the existence of a of a discarnate element of who we are I went into my first psychedelic Ceremony this Vision Quest which I was very blessed to be linked up with uh with a proper Shaman when I was 18 just graduated high school and I was I was super anti-religion at that point I'd gone to Texas and I'd seen how none of this none of the religious doctrines that I that had been kind of pushed towards me had made any sense I'd been to the dungeons of the Inquisition in Italy on a family trip and was horrified and I was like this is all nonsense I was very much materialist rationalist reductionist um and I went and did my first journey which was a combination of psilocybin and MDMA and I felt my body completely evaporate and there was no other word I had for what remained then the Soul The Unborn the undying element of who I am beyond this one Lifetime and that changed everything for me there was no way I could dispute it there's no way my mind I stayed up all night that night it was a rainy windy night stayed up all night just writing in my journal because it was that moment of a radical earthquake paradigm shift from this if I may intervene came from an experience that you had it didn't come from something you were taught in school or in University it came from a direct personal experience so much more valuable yeah and no one can ever no one can ever tell me what it was and what it wasn't I was I I was there I felt it and I think this is one of the advantages of psychedelics is they give you the opportunity for gnosis you know to actually experience what you're what you're thinking about and philosophizing about I completely agree um this is again psychedelics are are a subject that has been for far too long demonized in our society we're beginning now to to wake up to the incredible therapeutic benefits of psychedel Alex that people who suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder or depression can be very quickly healed with just a relatively small number of deep psychedelic experiences whereas the big Pharma drugs do do nothing for them so there's there's a beginning of an Awakening which is Shifting the Paradigm on psychedelics but they're still regarded as in some way hazardous or dangerous but let's ask ourselves why are they so effective in curing PTSD and depression in both cases PTSD and depression the the affected individual is locked into a very rigid frame and can't see out Beyond it they get trapped in a recurring a recurring Loop of unpleasantness and what the psychedelics do is they break that they break that grip they they allow the mind to reset uh and to contemplate possibilities that hadn't been contemplated before it's also true with with people who are experiencing anxiety at the prospect of death typically people with terminal cancer diagnoses they've also had their their last weeks or months transformed by experiences with psalocybin um who those experiences have shown them that that the death of the physical body is really nothing that it's not the end that it might be the beginning of another great adventure and what we are fundamentally is consciousness and that's why I I regard our society's reaction to psychedelics until this relatively Recent research has begun to get a toehold our our society's reaction to psychedelics is still the case in most countries and most States has been to make psychedelics illegal to demonize them to threaten those who use them with with uh with with prison uh and and um to defame their names and yet uh again this is a point that I regard as as extremely important if if we if we're not sovereign over our own Consciousness then we're not sovereign over anything and it's impossible to speak about Freedom uh when the government holds the keys to our Consciousness and tells us what we may or may not experience and then of course the the the the the black will come back and and they'll say oh but you know psychedelics lead people to do things that are dangerous to others well actually first of all they don't uh and second and secondly we already have laws that deal with people who do dangerous things to others so we don't need laws that Patrol the inner sanctum of our Consciousness uh there's just so much wrong with the way this issue has been handled in the modern world and and my only hope is that it doesn't get completely taken over by big Pharma uh that that that that other dead hand doesn't step in and I know already of of of uh pharmaceutical companies who are taking out patents on slightly tweaked molecules uh in order to to make it their own when Nature provides it free of charge to all of us yeah so many uh so many you know powerful thoughts and and I absolutely unequivocally agree with you in in all of this and it's it's really there's an upside down way of thinking they think of it as not being sober when actually on these medicines it feels like a hyper sobriety like you've kind of woken up from the delusional dream that you've been in in your waking reality so it's it's almost not not being sober it's actually being more sober than you ever were and it's not people yeah yeah it's not it's not I may harm other people it's it's actually if every time you've been an [ __ ] is then shown right in your face and you have to deal right in your face and you have to deal with every time you've said something mean or hurt somebody or been thoughtless you know you're really it's your conscious it's your Consciousness some guy medicines are real teachers they they teach us the mistakes we've made which we've normally blocked out because we don't want to hear about our own mistakes they force us to confront them and that gives us the opportunity not to repeat those mistakes in the in the future uh it's something these are these are incredibly helpful helpful medicines and and are prepared of the word sober I mean look at the one Consciousness altering drug that that's particularly valued and glorified in our society which is alcohol uh you know alcohol is truly a dangerous drug uh it leads people into very aggressive behavior it gets them into fights it leads to car smashes it destroys the liver uh it's a huge health risk and yet ours is and fundamentally people do not drink that glass of wine or that kind of beer because of the taste they may like the taste but they're fundamentally drinking it because of the brief alteration of Consciousness that it brings to them uh the most boring drug on the planet is glorified by our civilization and it's a Consciousness altering drug but yet other Consciousness altering substances which lead us to question the mainstream narrative and psychedelics are Paramount amongst those substances those have been demonized for for so long I hope we're going to see the end of that of that period of suppression but I suspect it's still several years away yeah I think the psychedelics are playing a role in this as they become more you know adopted mainstream our societies the mental health of our society has been in a steady decline and these psychedelics are providing a solution so people may go in to work on their depression or their anxiety or their PTSD say I'm gonna go get this treatment oh whoops I just I just met with God you know I just found I just found the Eternal existence of my soul as a side effect of my anxiety which I totally forgot about because now my whole world is different and I don't think I'm going to die and go to nothing anymore and I think this is going to happen more and more where people are going to treat some medical condition which will be proven to be able to be treated by these things but as a side effect they're gonna encounter the ineffable numinous you know nature of reality and that's going to start to shift this Paradigm you know one by one and everybody one by one who's taken the risk of breaking these Draconian laws uh and experimented with psychedelics themselves vast majority of such people have I've had these life transforming experiences also and it is it is indeed leading to questioning of the mainstream narrative uh which is exactly what we need in the world today we need this harmful hateful mainstream narrative to be questioned and and in fact overthrown it's it's past sell by date it's doing more harm much more harm than good and we need to change everything about the way that things function in our societies today and we need to against you know psychedelics offer this this realization that that um we're not just meat robots you know we're not just here to work and produce and consume we're here to have the full in-depth human experience with all that that involves we're here to face the challenges and to answer the questions that our lives confront us with rather than to be numbed and dulled down by alcohol uh and and uh TV shows that just encourage more production than consumption uh this is a this is a transformative moment in the human story it'll be interesting to see how it works out I'm 72 years old now I'm not sure how much longer I've got to to see this happen but I I hope very much to come back in a in my next life and find the world very very much changed one of the the mysteries of past lives or perhaps the interesting point of it is that that um when reborn in a new body part of the deal is that you forget your past life you may remember it as a child up until the age of seven then it gradually drifts away particularly in societies like ours and I can that kind of makes sense to me because if you knew the rules of the game if you knew that this was a theater of experience that you're here to learn and to grow and to develop then you might not play the game straight but if you're if you're not clear on what exactly is going on you are going to play the game straight and you're going to you're going to have to deal with the choices you make and learn from them I I think physical life in a physical human body is an incredible privilege that the Universe has given us uh and it's tragic to see how our society conspires and I'll use that word quite deliberately here conspires to diminish that privilege and to limit our potential rather than to rather than to open it up amen amen and you know those it's also imagining like how difficult it is to hold on to a dream when you wake up you know you can wake up in the morning be like I had an I had this unbelievable dream and then by noon you're like what the hell was I dreaming about because the world is such a compelling and vibrant and Alive dream that we're living in anyways to hold on to a Dream Within the dream is very difficult very very difficult to beat this is where um you're reminding me of of DMT dimethylcryptamine and and the way that um the short fast Journey that smoked uh or Vaped DMT produces which is typically about 12 minutes is so overwhelming but it's very hard you know that something major has happened yeah there's often a sense of a massive download of of information but it's hard to remember the precise details little glimpses come through but you know much more was happening than that and and this is why I've talked quite a bit recently about this new project that's taking place at Imperial College in London led by Dr Chris Timmerman where they are giving DMT to human volunteers with a new technology see DMT is not um it's not normally orally accessible it becomes orally accessible in the Ayahuasca Brew because the second element of the Ayahuasca Brew contains a monoamine oxidase inhibitor that switches off an enzyme in our gut that normally stops US absorbing DMT orally so the best way to to experience the DMT is to smoke it or to vape it then it gets past the blood-brain barrier straight into the brain or to or to put it into the bloodstream and that's what they're doing at Imperial College and they've developed a new technology that allows the DMT to be administered effectively by drip and to keep the volunteers in the peak DMT state for an hour plus I've talked to quite a number of these volunteers I must say I would find the prospect of being an hour in the peak DMT State pretty alarming but but it gives you the chance to get to grips with I can only call it a realm that other realm that you that you find yourself in it gives you better hope of remembering it and and quite often the the um the team who are running this study will sit by a volunteer and ask that volunteer what they're seeing what they're experiencing as it goes through they'll even put them in MRI scanners to see what's happening in the brain again this is something I I find hard to imagine is being speaking on DMT and being in an incredibly noisy claustrophobic MRI scanner I mean that would take that would take some some courage to to deal with that I had nevertheless I have actually tried to um volunteer for the study at Imperial College but unfortunately I suffer from Grandma epilepsy it came on suddenly when I was 67 years old and they asked a whole series of questions and one of the things that automatically rules you out uh is epilepsy not because they fear that there's any likelihood that epilepsy will be triggered by DMT quite the country they just don't want to run that risk of getting their project closed down because somebody has an epileptic fit uh during this experience so unfortunately I won't be able to to to volunteer for that but I think it's a highly worthy study and the purpose of the study is not primarily to look at the therapeutic potential of DMT it's to look at the potential of DMT for exploring other levels of reality yeah sometimes like spiritual cartography it's like spiritual exactly beautiful phrase it's like spiritual cartography to go and map that realm and to come and and these volunteers are coming back with astonishingly similar experiences and particularly of accounts with entities who offer them teachings and and and for the mainstream just to dismiss all this is nonsense uh is is very very stupid and most of those most scientists who do dismiss the DMT experience of nonsense have never had a DMT experience themselves I don't think anybody's qualified to to put down these experiences unless they've had those experiences themselves uh in which case they would not be putting them down anymore yeah it would be like somebody commenting on an orgasm if they've never had one yes exactly what do you really know honestly it's like getting advice on on on the best positions for for sex from a celibate priest you know yeah yeah exactly exactly like thanks for your theory no I have a bit of experience here in this exactly it's the experiences it experiences the fundamental thing and I think that's partly what the mainstream is afraid of with with psychedelics is that it is it is cutting out the intermediary we don't need the priest or the rabbi or the Muller to tell us what to think uh we have the experience directly and we can make of it what we wish yeah and it's not just the scientific you know Empire driven and I say Empire in in the in the kind of corporatocracy that's just looking to maximize profit above everything else is really the this kind of force that that I that is very oppressive in that in that regard and it's woven in with the political but there's also uh Empire weaves its way through religious structures as well and this is what you were kind of referring to it's the same idea of basically they're they're another type of Corporation this just the what they're selling is access they're selling access to the Divine at least at least that's what they're pretending to sell they're all about control and you mentioned gnosticism earlier that the psychedelics give us a kind of Gnostic experience and that that's true because narcissism was fundamentally about direct revealed experience rather than rather than about teachings and there's no doubt that the early gnostics uh and many other ancient societies were using psychedelics extensively in order to to mediate these these experiences and of course that's why gnosticism the the Gnostic branch of Christianity was the first bit of Christianity to be persecuted when the Roman Catholic Church came to power under the reign of Constantine and and pulled on the the Jack Boots of the Roman Empire uh the very first people they started to burn at the stake were the were the gnostics it's not often realized how diverse Christianity was in its early days and how there were many different factions within Christianity and the Roman Catholic Church was just one of those factions but it gained political power and since then has been very reluctant uh to to to lose it um and I'm I'm sure there are many wonderful Catholics but the record of the Catholic church over the last 1500 years or so has been a record of Cruelty of suppression of burning of all the the documents of uh in in Mexico for example of the Maya keeping keeping their courtesy the Mayan codices up into huge bonfires thousands of them and burning them burning them to nothing so no wonder we're a species with amnesia when these power groups in our society have systematically set about rubbing out uh the the memories of other cultures yeah you know it's kind of weaving in two threads one of the threads of religion and also uh the other threat about entities um you know I read your fictional book War God and really enjoyed it and I wanted I'm you know I definitely wanted to bring it up and this sounds like a a good segue for this because the thesis so I've had you know several hundred DMT experiences from a variety of different ways Ayahuasca you know 30 sometimes and then a snuff called vilka which comes from a seed that contains you know nndmt5meo Buffet I've experienced it you know smoked from you know Mimosa extracts I've experienced you know and then I've been uh you know trained in in how to facilitate five Meo DMT I don't do it but I went through the whole initiation to kind of learn the learn the ins and outs so very very familiar with the space and obviously with that much experience innumerable encounters with entities which are far far more clever than my imagination so if it is some deeper in inner recessed archetype of me then me must be like the kybalion says all is mine the universe is mental I must be participating in the all inside me so actually the idea of whether the entities are coming from me or out there doesn't really matter to me because the depth of the depth of wisdom that's coming through is far beyond what my conscious rational mind could ever conjure so whether it's outside or inside it's beyond my grasp it's beyond the pale of what my rational mind could ever do in so much of a way that it just can stay consistently both make me laugh you know draw insights point out things that I that couldn't possibly understand so I'm very very much familiar with this concept of entities and the thesis of war God is basically saying that and I'll let you comment on this of course because it's your book but basically saying that the Conquistadors led by Cortez and actually the Aztecs who were led by Moctezuma were both engaging in human sacrifice in worship of the same demon entity going under different names and I thought that premise was like man that's [ __ ] that not only is it's of course fiction right but yeah it's fiction although it's based on quite detailed research about the the Spanish conflict of Mexico um and and uh yeah that's you you've nailed it that's exactly what I'm what I'm talking about that the entity that appears to Cortez as Saint Peter and the entity that appears to Moctezuma as hummingbird the war God is actually the same entity uh in different uh disguises and that the purpose of that entity is to maximize human misery and my God if there was ever a an Enterprise that maximized human misery it was a Spanish conquest of Mexico bringing in its wake the horrendous curse of of smallpox and leading to the annihilation of millions of people across the Americas uh and and um I I can't help seeing this as a kind of demonic intervention in human Affairs that's what demons are in the business of doing they're in the business of maximizing misery and maximizing suffering and the Spanish conquest of Mexico was a huge instrument of misery and suffering uh which which affected of course not only Mexico but went on to to destroy the the great civilizations of the high Andes in in Peru and in Bolivia and then went on to destroy the civilizations that we now know existed in the Amazon not that they went into the Amazon with swords and Spears and guns but but the diseases that they brought spread into the Amazon and and it's now known from very intriguing lidar studies which have been followed up with the boots on the ground investigation that there were huge cities in the Amazon uh in in pre-history and they existed up until the time that the Spaniards appeared bringing these diseases with them and then those diseases just spread like wildfire across South America and wiped out these populations which became empty and deserted within a hundred years and we're just now finding finding their remains lidar uh is uh a non-destructive way of investigating what's under the Amazon rainforest canopy and it is revealing not only the evidence of enormous populations but also the evidence of Highly sophisticated geometrical structures uh and all of this was brought to a sudden horrific end as a result of the conquest what a Pity what what I felt when I was I have to say by the way nobody reads my novels um I'm I'm on I'm only known from from my non-fiction books and I've still got a fourth volume of war god to write because there's been so much so many developments in in the Lost Civilization field that have absorbed my energies for the past the past few years um but but um what I wanted to what I wanted to do in that series was to get inside the heads of the of the main players uh and understand what drove them and what and what motivated them and that's one of the things that fiction allows a writer to do which is difficult to do in non-fiction and I found that um that by being able to do to put myself into into the heads of my characters I began to understand what happened during the Spanish of Conquest Spanish conquest of Mexico much better than I did before and if I may add on that the the impetus to begin writing some fiction came from an Ayahuasca experience uh it was in fact five Ayahuasca experiences I I've I've had about 70 plus Journeys with Ayahuasca over the years starting in starting in 2003 but in in 2007 in Brazil a series of five sessions over two weeks were entirely focused uh on uh giving me the plot of a novel uh and that novel that I wrote before I wrote this wrote War God and that novel is called entangled and again it posits a a demonic force that is that is trying to maximize misery and that travels through time so there is a young woman in the 21st century and and a young woman 24 000 years ago who are literally entangled and they have to they have to cooperate together to to fight this demonic force and not allow it to to succeed I got all of that I didn't even know I could write a novel I I got it all in a series of images and and instructions during these Ayahuasca sessions and at the very end of it I was told very firmly go away and write it so I set down my non-fiction writing and I went away and wrote it and then I and then I carried on and began to write the the war god Series so what that says to me amongst many things uh is that these psychedelic experiences can also be enormously creative that they that they unlock creative sides of ourselves that we might not even have known uh existed yeah absolutely the idea of the Demonic the Demonic force of course is also Central to gnosticism where where that force is referred to as the archons um who whose whole project is to make the human races miserable and um fail to reach our potential as as possible and no wonder that the gnostics were very familiar with Altered States Of Consciousness yeah I uh I encountered a an entity in an Ayahuasca session with I work with the quechua Healer Maestro Orlando chewandama and um so I encountered this this encounter I've encountered many dark entities of course in many light entities and beauty and beautiful that's true okay we do it we it's not all sweetness and light in Iowa no yeah yeah if you're going if you're going for Candyland you picked a you picked the wrong Cup every time I do anyway of course of course and uh and I I encountered this being that was it was technological in nature it was it was absolutely demonic and and and I was like what uh like what are you you know I had other guidance and I had other you know like what are you and I was like this is the this is the they call it the the Mecca archon which was like the technological it was like the archon that was working through technology to actually like undermine our own faculties of thought and our own Consciousness and and we can kind of see this and obviously everybody's kind of aware of the dangers of the the cell phones and the social media and their addiction to technology and all of these different ways but it actually appeared to me in embodied as a as an entity and uh and it was it was quite interesting and it's allowed me to start thinking about any aggregation archetypal aggregation of energy you know you can actually alluded to this earlier you could if you wanted to deify that and make it a demon or an angel or something like that and it may or may not be what we call quote real but the energy is real that's behind it yeah and that's and that's like it's it's it starts to like allow you to think about these things not as like fairy tale superstitions but just like this is the aggregation of archetypal energy that's and does that actually when it's aggregated in that particular form does it have Consciousness itself and and also choice and that's that's where it gets very very interesting and to me the answer is yes based on the experiences that I've had um but either way it's it's quite interesting and then what I've also realized is we can look at even ancient Greek and ancient Roman you know uh Pantheon the Olympians of course and say oh yeah great stories great stories but I've had encounters with those beings it's totally shocking totally shy like who is this Mercury and where did I feel it I felt this hot energy moving through my ankles and I was like oh they always put Wings on the ankles and I'm just like Mercury and I was like yeah I was like whoa Mercury I didn't I didn't think that was a real I didn't think that was a real being I thought that was just like a story yeah no not as not not a story an experience um this is uh it's it's fascinating when you look at the ancient Egyptian Pantheon and indeed many others around the world before we before we got into this top-down controlling system of the monotheistic faiths uh which have which have sought to attribute everything sacred to one entity um when we look at at these older spiritual and religious systems as in the case of ancient Egypt you'll find that almost every single one of the ancient Egyptian deities has what's rightly referred to as a therianthropic uh appearance from from the Greek therion which means wild beast and anthropos which means man that there's a combination of animal and human characteristics think of the god Horus with his with his Hawk uh head that think of Thoth with the head of an Ibis think of Anubis with the head of a jackal these are not things that one sees in the normal alert everyday Pro problem-solving State of Consciousness but they are things that we routinely see in deeply Altered States Of Consciousness and many of the entities that that I've encountered in in the Ayahuasca Visions uh and and indeed in smoked DMT Visions as well have had this very anthropic quality what's interesting with the DMT in pure form is is precisely what you mentioned uh although you got it from an Ayahuasca experience which is DMT mediated through the gut um is that the technological element of the entities that are that are often encountered um that's rarer in Ayahuasca experiences but it does happen the Ayahuasca experience is it's interesting that there are these differences and in the Amazon they say that the difference is precisely caused by the Ayahuasca Vine that the Ayahuasca Vine which itself is not Consciousness altering or not particularly so is the master plant and that it's harnessing the leaves that contain the the the DMT to to give us this experience so it's interesting that when mediated with the Ayahuasca Vine the realm that one enters is often very jungly and full of um serpents and and full of jaguars and and Panthers very a very jungly organic realm whereas whereas quite often with with smoke DMT it's a very mechanical realm where the entities seem like machines um and and uh powerful machines by all means but machines still and have this trickster this trickster quality about them but there have been times on on my Ayahuasca Journeys where it's flipped over into a very technological DMT type of dream and I don't know what these I just don't know what these things are or what is going on I don't think anybody does but I think it I think it merits much further investigation and that's why I celebrate what's happening at Imperial College in London now because these experiences I think have been fundamental to human culture uh over tens of thousands of years and for our society which is really just the sort of fingertip on the end of the long arm of human culture for our society to write off all those experiences and and to demonize them and rubbish them is a terrible mistake yeah yeah and I think one of the things that I really celebrated about war God as well is I think you can get into this mindset that all primitive cultures are all non-western cultures were were better in every way and that psychedelics are always you know always helpful they're they're a fantasy they're always good but you know you tell the story very clearly and inside the minds and in hearts and and thoughts of the priests of of Moctezuma who were taking psychedelic mushrooms they call it Teo to noctil or something like that and and taking taking taking psychedelic mushrooms and car and cutting the hearts out of people at by the thousands for committing horrific murders on a gigantic scale uh in honor of this uh demonic entity that they that they regarded as somehow worthy of worshiping and and it's a that's why I also present the balance to that in the book because because a lot of Christians will will condemn those cultures for carrying out Human Sacrifice forgetting that Christianity itself carried out Human Sacrifice repeatedly over hundreds and hundreds of years the last witchburnings took place in England in the 18th century that's just really not very long ago burn somebody at the stake in the name of your deity and what you're performing is an act of human sacrifice which is no different from the acts of human sacrifice that were were carried out by the by the Aztecs it's the same it's the same end result in fact if I were given the choice as to which way I'd rather go I'd rather have a quick knife thrust to the heart than be slowing yeah the mistake like Giordano Bruno hung upside down and allowed to suffer for 24 hours before he before he died you know this is the very the cruelty and wickedness of the Christian church over the years we all often hear so many great things about the Christian church and that's fine but to be real we have to accept the fact that this that this religion has been has been the source of so much Division and so much cruelty in the world over over so long that we really need to ask ourselves what is that thing that we're calling God uh and the gnostics were very clear that that entity called Yahweh or Jehovah was not a god at all he was an imposter he was a demon uh and and his purpose was to mislead the human race and if that was his purpose then he certainly succeeded in doing so well you I mean when you say the word God fearing you know that you're upside down right like like God is and when you actually experience God it's it's it can be overwhelming in all of the consciousness of life it contains all the all the light and all the dark but it is not something you fear it's the it's the overflowing Eminence of Love emanation of love that's going everywhere it's the op opposite you know it's like you want more not less of this of this being and so it just points to the upside down nature that we've been in we're really we're not not only a culture of Amnesia but we're a culture that's been like Giordano Bruno who was actually hung upside down when he should have been turned right side up and put on a pedestal and said thank you to it he was upside down just like the whole structure of everything was upside down and I can only imagine you know from my understandings of Yeshua and the Deep mystical power of his teachings that what has been done in the name of Yeshua in the name of Jesus is the absolute upside Downing of everything that he stood for definitely I completely agree with you and again the Gnostic saw the figure of Jesus as a gnostic teacher they didn't see him as a as Divine they saw him as a teacher uh who well as Divine as all of us which is what Jesus was trying to say all along all of us yes yes that's that's that that that's right we're all the sons of God in that sense or the daughters of God but I but but um unfortunately uh the what we're dealing with in the in the big monotheistic faiths uh is I I go with a gnostic view it's an imposter uh it's a it's an entity that seeks to mislead humanity and that and that can be shown from The Works of these religions and the harm and the Damage that they've that they've caused and I know that what I'm saying is going to be outrageous to to to large numbers of people but just think about it just think about you know stoning a woman to death because she's unfaithful to her husband which still happens today uh in Islamic cultures just think about the cruelty of the Christian church and and the burning at the stake of its of its opponents over centuries and centuries and ask yourself can this really be excused can can the religion be excused for that many people say well that happened then but it's not true Christianity well I'm afraid it is true Christianity uh and and if that religion cannot uh cannot deal with its own baggage then it's not going to go very much further and you know I think the safeguards on all of these structures are actually in many ways the these psychedelic experiences the experiences of transcendence where you get to actually encounter both imposters and the truth and then you actually get to sort out from the inside from you know from what we feel and throw ontologically like what's happening in our body like through my body I Vision God this this feeling of understanding what's actually happening then it allows you to set the world you know set the world through your own through your own gnosis it allows you to become your own your own Gnostic and and that's the Safeguard for all of these atrocities that has been categorically removed and you know what I'd like to to say to anybody who's not worked with these plant medicines these fungi medicines as well is is is that um you know they are teachers they they they they are teachers fundamental it's a very strange thing that that plants which we regard as um non-sentient uh nevertheless that the mixture of the two plants involved in the Ayahuasca Brew immediately puts us face to face with our own baggage and starts teaching us how to deal with that of course we can't put right mistakes we've made in the past but we don't have to keep on making those mistakes in the future uh and the real work begins after the session I'm sure you'll agree it doesn't begin it's not it's not a magic pill uh which is suddenly going to transform your life it's it's it's a medicine that's going to teach you stuff about yourself and give you the opportunity to change but integrating those lessons that you've learned into the life that you live on this plane that's where the hard work really begins uh and and um far from being a magic pill it's a recipe for years of hard work and working on oneself to be a better and more nurturing and more positive and more useful person and not to harm others yeah yeah I'm I'm with you 100 and this was you know again to sort of weave back to the partially told story from Matthias de Stefano which I'm sure yeah everybody wants to people might want to hear and and also to understand that those cultures had no restrictions no such restrictions on psychedelic medicine but as Matthias tells the story in their in their understanding at least in what was told to him and again the story of Atlantis Atlantis and the Atlantean civilization was passed down through many generations by the time he got it so he never he doesn't remember a life in Atlantis he's just one of the post-atlantean civilizations and the story that was told um was both yes the meteors that came down and they hit in a variety of different places they melted the ice there was floods but there was a there was a causality that they attributed to it in that the atlanteans had put up in all of their different all throughout the Empire they'd made they'd made structures where people priests could enter into Consciousness and the structures were resonant with the Stars and they actually developed somewhat of a spiritual World Wide Web of Consciousness so uh like what Rupert sheldrake would call the amorphic resonance field they were actually able to tap into that in a really profound way and they were holding they were holding a balance of the Earth but actually this idea of Empire or this kind of demonic idea of control over over other people there was a faction that that kind of split off that said no we don't want this centralized Atlantean kind of control of our Consciousness and there was a there was a conflict and It ultimately And the atlanteans tried to make a power move where they tried to actually use these Technologies which were meant to hold balance and Equanimity for the Earth for power and it disrupted the Grid in a fundamental way and the disruption of the grid actually removed the protection that the Earth had because it's not every twelve thousand five hundred years or whatever that the the the meteor said it's just every once in a while and so in their understanding they were holding a protection over the Earth that that left because everything was in chaos because the the desire for power had gone had gotten into the atlanteans who'd lived peacefully for 4 000 years or so before that and and then so and when that happened that's when that's when all the cataclysmens so it was a cautionary there's a cautionary tale that he remembers of this is what happens when you go try to make that move for power you know it like throws everything out of balance and very much so we're in the same it's also another warning for us because we're in this same moment yeah well we're we're the next Lost Civilization uh that's what that's what our civilization is today we don't have to be uh but choices need to be made we have to we have to change the path that all the big industrialized technological countries are on right now uh otherwise we're there's not even going to take a cosmic disaster we're going to bring ourselves down yeah lapse and destroy our civilization uh lose all the support systems that we've relied upon uh and be put in a place where we have to rely only on ourselves again and that will be very difficult that's why I think our civilization today is is fragile because it looks strong uh it's capable of incredible technological Feats but psychically it's very fragile and not ready to to confront uh the chaos that may that that may come no doubt no doubt and these stories from the past are important and I I think this is the point you make it's a point that Matthias makes as well like these stories of the past are important and to not only show us you know the classic you know those who do not learn from history or doomed to repeat it you know this is so they actually had he actually had that woven into the story so it was not only a particular time but it was a particular mindset is he when he has these past life experiences for Milan he has full access so he has he has a he has a a phone with a stylus and he takes notes to himself in Atlantean in Atlantean like cuneiform basically right right so he's entering the products like State uh autonomously without the without the need of it's just it's just he calls him so he's like I'm a particular type of being it's like a memory cell and whatever whatever function that white wipes out the memory and makes it like a dream for most people I'm the one that was supposed to I'm just built that I'm supposed to remember and so he doesn't consider himself special or like it's a special gift it's just like I'm a memory cell in this Collective like one organ like the the call it the pituitary or whatever of of all Humanity he's that one cell in that in that particular gland that's able to remember and and he's you know he sings on my podcast he's sung some songs that he would sing to his daughter and he was a mom he was he was a woman in that life and and this life he's a he's a gay man and he's loving his life in this life and he loved his life then and and he's singing songs to his to his daughter in this this lullaby and he sung that song and there was something so human that woke up in me some ancestral memory when I heard this Atlantean lullaby and he's not a great singer he's not you know trying to be a Performing Artist but it was just sung like like a mother would sing to their daughter and it was so powerful like of all the things of course I approach all of these things skeptically I don't actually even believe in astrology and numerology I I'm open to it but I've never found anything compelling I'm not like super into all of these phenomenons but when I hear his song and my body knows it as a real song and knows it as I know it is true you know it's just this it's this interesting thing and and of course all of his resume matches up at what level exactly resonates at the Heart level like I feel in in everything he's saying you know correlates with everything that you're writing so the scientific evidence of the past and then also what he's talking about the cosmos correlates with my 23 years of psychedelic adventuring where I've just you know all of the entities and the dimensionality and all these experiences there's so much correlation that I haven't found any dissonance between that which I know internally and that which I've learned from you know individuals like yourself about the past yeah so it's been really it's been really like a a beautiful relationship to have and he's just a he's just a great great human being and he does he can enter trance States as well and then Channel other different types of energies um but he has waking access to that memory what's often forgotten is that is that DMT is a natural brain hormone right um it's it's present in all human beings and in fact in almost all animal life but usually in sub-psychedelic quantities uh some people may may have a bit more of it than others and and it may just open those doorways that are normally closed for most of us without help of psychedelics it's an interesting it's an interesting phenomenon actually that a natural brain hormone is illegal um but so that's the world we live in today right what he was saying also really strongly supported by Plato who's the the earliest surviving tradition of Atlantis is passed down to us by Plato who makes it clear that his ancestors soul on learned the story in ancient Egypt um and indeed speaks of of um how Atlantis was once a beautiful civilization but that how it became cruel and how it began to impose its will upon others to use its technology to gain power that it ceased to wear its Prosperity with moderation and in response to that the Universe finally had enough and uh and struck it down I think the balance between human beings and the universe is something else that's ignored in our civilization today we are part of universe and our our behavior and even our thoughts uh have Universal implications that we are taught to ignore at our peril hmm I couldn't I couldn't agree more so well so well said and and you know so to continue on with some of the things that you might find interesting and and I and I deeply hope that you guys are able to have a conversation at some point I think it would be a beautiful experience for you guys to talk but he so he shares that he was actually part of the water Guild as I said that was cutting the stones but the the air Guild and the Earth Guild could actually they would go into a trance and they would form they would get into like psychic resonance with the stones and they would be singing and as they would be singing and and singing was pretty much part of all of the different guilds they would use sound and sound healing sound medicine technology sound technology through their own voice and they would get into resonance with the stones and they would actually then start to raise the octaves of how they were singing and so they would actually raise the weight as they raised the so they would lift they would make the stones lighter by how they would sing and how they would actually move the density of the stones through the octaves which they would be they would be elevating and this was part of the technology that answers the question well how the hell did they get all these Stones up in the first place how did they move them all how did well they had people who were part of this you know the air Guild who could sing into the stone and then move it move it however they wanted and the water Guild would cut the stones right again there are a number of ancient Egyptian Traditions that speak of these massive Stones being lifted by the priests chanting um and and it's not an it's not an accident that singing is also a hugely important part of the Ayahuasca Journey particularly in the Amazon the icaros that uh the the show Martin there uh guide the journey they're like a road through that Realm so as you hear something like that and also I'll just finish with uh with the last bit of the story that I think you might find interesting there's tales in many of the different mythologies of them being Giants these members of these other civilizations he said well yes we were we had these spiritual Technologies and our Consciousness was giant they've been using psychedelic plant medicines and they'd been evolving but they've also they also had different levels of nutrition they had different levels of medicine and just like you see in a lot of cultures who've had that who've had different access to protein and different access to they were just large they were actually larger you know and they lived a lot longer you know their lifespan was 80 to 100 years just like ours and you know they were healthy and and strong and robust and they had this kind of spiritual brass so they were giants in a way they lived several times as long and they were you know it was just at the advancements of of the culture in them certainly yeah for sure and slightly physically larger and then and as they went around and they went around to these different you know as they re-civilized kind of the re-uh repopulated and dispersed around the world eventually like the questions are what happened to him well they just started you know they started breeding and and kind of interbreeding with all the local populations until eventually populations yeah that's it and that's and that's really how it that's really how it went they didn't decide to just we're only gonna you know sleep with each other like the you know like the targaryens or something of Game of Thrones you know it's like they just dispersed and they made love to all of the people of the different lands and and they brought with the knowledge and that knowledge filtered down and we can see evidence of it still extant in the world today and and massively denied by mainstream science um but there is a Heritage that the whole human race has has received I believe from from a localization of prehistory and I think it Atlantis is a really good name for that for that Lost Civilization because fundamentally it does come to us from Plato the the the earliest surviving account of it and uh I've seen academics twist themselves into knots trying to dismiss plate those accounts they can they can respect him in all other ways at the moment he starts talking about A Lost Civilization he can't possibly be talking about something real even though he eats many times that this is a true story based on facts that's ignored and they say he's trying to set up some kind of political model or make some sort of philosophical Point anything rather than admit that he's reporting true history yeah indeed so when you hear that when you hear you've been so you've been to more of these sacred sites than I ever have but I've been to some of the ones down in Peru and and they're on it's unbelievably stunning the stonework that's that's there so when you hear when you hear this account you know from Matthias of the way that they actually change the weight of the stones they still had to move them they couldn't just like totally levitate them telekinesis with their mind they still had to move them but they could change the weight of them so that they were much easier to move by singing into resonance with them and they could cut them with water instead of actually having to use chisels and things does this does this make sense from what you've seen on the ground and what you've been able to put your hand on these stones and see all over the world it makes it makes perfect sense to me and of course in saying that I know that I'm handing a hostage to Fortune and giving my critics a stick to beat me with um because because of course to speak of anything like telekinesis or telepathic Powers um is regarded by the the the academy today is a complete nonsense and it's often used actually I in my books I probably don't devote more than a page across thousands of pages to that speculation uh that their that their technology was very different from ours that it was based on latent faculties of the human mind that have that have fallen into that have that have relapsed in our civilization today but that we're highly prominent in the in in the past and that the human mind is capable of of far more than we give it credit for it doesn't have to be mediated through machines uh or leverage in the way that it is in our society the human mind can have a direct impact uh on physical reality and you mentioned Rupert sheldrake earlier a man for whom I have a deepest respect uh Rupert is is a real scientist but he's a rebel he's stood out against the academy he stood out and presented solid scientific evidence for example for telepathy which which is very difficult to refute and how do they refute it they just ignore him and sneer at him and pour scorn upon him so I'm I'm very I'm very proud of rubida he's just kept on kept on presenting the evidence sticking with the facts and and pushing it in their faces to the point where it becomes ridiculous to to to resist it um you know we we've we've all had experiences of telepathy and it isn't uh it isn't absurd to suggest that that ability could be magnified with training and with focusing on it but it's difficult for it to be magnified in the society that despises such ideas which is our society today it's difficult for several reasons according to Matthias as I've asked Matthias like well could you could we do this now with the proper training and what he's saying is very much you know in accord with the ideas that Rupert kind of proposes of this morphic resonance field but he talks about this field of belief that there's actually a field of belief that's necessary to actually hold the possibility of somebody able to do this now of course the critics and Skeptics will say oh of course that's a convenient excuse but fundamentally you know the the the interconnectivity between belief and Consciousness and reality in the way that even even in the quantum Realms now that you know like I think it was a Hoffman who's talking about like local realism is being challenged the idea that actually our observation of something is actually necessary for that thing to actually be what it actually is and this is the it go it builds upon the observer effect in quantum mechanics and of course is beyond my beyond my pay grade it's one of the exciting ways where there's a Nexus with with psychedelic experiences of other Realms and quantum physics uh recognizing the the probability of parallel Realms parallel universes uh and and what quantum physics hasn't explored yet it hasn't got into yet is how do we how do we explore and map those Realms and maybe psychedelics are the answer I you know spiritual cartography I'm I'm into it but uh yeah so ultimately what he's saying is that the the field of belief the collective beliefs all of the observations that believe that this is possible or not that has to be softened in order to and allow for the possibility for this to emerge and I actually think that this is going to return in our future as more and more people become open to these ideas I think we're actually in our lifetimes going to see The Return of what we would Now call Magic but what they just what they just did back then is this was a part of the this was a part of the laws of their reality that they lived in and we would call it magic now but it will become just part of the part of the natural Order of Things magic is just science we don't understand yeah well said yeah well said well said it's another one of those words that are sneered at by by the the the academy any any notion of magic is is is dismissed uh but that's also dismissing human potential uh in in all sorts of ways so yeah Matthias sounds like he's had some very important and very valuable experiences I shall definitely learn more about it yeah happy to happy to connect you guys or maybe if you uh if you do make it down here to Austin we could all get on a podcast together and I can just sit back and and smile as uh as you guys tell stories about tell stories about the ancient fast yeah um and obviously I'm coming to it from a from a different point of view I I don't personally have um strong past life experiences I have a since my childhood I've I've had an absolute horror of being burnt at the stake something I get very emotional about and I do speculate sometimes was I burnt at the stake in a past life um is that where this comes from uh the way now that um The Academy is trying to burn me at the stake for my ancient Apocalypse series and and for my books pouring scorn upon me presenting me as a an enemy of society The Guardian newspaper says it's the most dangerous show on television uh you know this is this is the modern way to burn somebody at the stake is to is to destroy them uh with with attacks on their person which when you investigate them turn out to have no basis but the attack itself is enough to smear that individual in the eyes of so many who trust who trust those media you asked me earlier um whether how I would react to you know definite proof that my hypothesis my working hypothesis which is always changing by the way is is wrong and my answer to that is I I have changed my views extensively as I've gone along my policy with books is I'll never change a single word of a book once I've published it I don't want to whitewash the book I don't want to I want it to be there on the record I've updated a couple of books but only in the way of adding a forward and an afterward I leave the original text present there are things in Fingerprints of the gods that I don't go with anymore that was the first book I published on the possibility of A Lost Civilization and I've what I've done is I've written further books where I've I've explored those avenues that I didn't explore properly and fingerprints of the Gods and magicians of the Gods in America before are the most recent examples of that so that anybody who wants to critique my work can have a full view of everything that I've done since the 1990s and I won't I won't go back and edit anything uh as I say I'll only add a an afterward or or a forward to it but what puzzles mean but doesn't really puzzle me actually because that's the world we live in is that in most of the attacks that have been made on my work the archaeologists and their friends in the media who are attacking me talk only about fingerprints of the Gods which I published 27 years ago and don't talk a word about magicians of the gods or America before because they know they're on more difficult ground there I've been improving my game continuously improved I learned from my mistakes and I I incorporate that learning into new work but at the same time I don't want to pretend that I was a that that I didn't say something in the past I did say it and it's there and I'll keep it on record forever and let people make up their own minds and you know we're in a fortunate time as well with all of these with all of these difficulties and challenges we're in the fortunate time that you get to reach people without those filters of the of the you know kind of Guardians of the you know Guardian an interesting word but the Guardians the mainstream narrative because you've been able to go on Joe Rogan's podcast and you've been able you're on my podcast now and obviously it's you know not not the size of rogans but we're reaching hundreds of thousands millions of people very large numbers of people and this is one of the great developments in in the world we live in today we've talked a lot about the negative things but the the ability for people to speak freely and communicate with other like-minded people has has dramatically increased as a result of podcasts like yours and Joe's podcast you know Joe's Joe's podcast his first time I've appeared on your podcast but Joe's Joe Rogan's podcast has been enormously important to me uh at the first episode I did with him was back in 2011. I think it was episode 147. yeah you suddenly put my work in front of a whole new audience who weren't who weren't aware of me at all and that has definitely empowered me and so I'm grateful to the the podcast realm uh for for allowing me freedom of speech and and allowing me to get what I have to say across in a way that the mainstream media just will never do the only story that the mainstream media want to write about me is that Hancock is a crackpot he's dangerous and he's misleading the public that's the only story they want to tell I've had a recent example I won't name them of a newspaper in Britain who clearly wanted to go on that bandwagon as well to gallop with the herd of of pouring scorn upon me but I insisted that we do a written interview and I gave them I gave them detailed written replies to all of their questions and at the end of the day because those written replies would not have allowed them to do the hatchet job they wanted to do they just didn't publish the story yeah well we uh this is the this is the time we're in and it's a it's a there's a cautionary Tale in a meta and a meta cautionary Tale in the story that you've told and and I just want to say personally for me just the deepest gratitude and thanks for your courage and for standing out both for what you've shared again about the evidence of ancient civilization but also the the way that you've stood on the meta perspective the way that you've stood and with withstood these attacks and been an example of someone with dignity and integrity and courage and you know this is this is a model that's invaluable even Beyond even beyond the work that you've you've put out there which is also invaluable but um so just the utmost admiration and gratitude for you as a human and and your incredible body of work thank you Aubry one of the things that gives me gives me hope is the way that that young people and even young trainee archaeologists respond to my work and I often get private Communications from from people who say that my work has caused them to think again about everything and if I'm doing that even with a small number of people then I'm grateful for the ability for the for the opportunity to do that I think you have no idea about the the positive impact uh you've had on the world and we'll continue to have on the world it's probably even more enormous than your mind can even can even grapple with sweet of you to say that thank you I believe it I believe it wholeheartedly and uh and hopefully as our as our Journeys went along their way I would love to have another conversation with you and uh and that there's many many more things to explore Absolutely I'll look forward to the next time Aubry absolutely thanks everybody for tuning in thank you Graham and uh we'll see you next week thanks for tuning in to this video make sure you hit subscribe follow me at Aubry Marcus check out the Aubrey Marcus podcast available everywhere and leave a comment let me know if this video resonated or what else you would like to hear from me in the future thank you so much

Channel: Aubrey Marcus

Views: 1,136,625

Keywords: aubrey, marcus, aubrey marcus, graham hancock, ancient apocalypse, joe rogan, fingerprints of the gods, lost civilizations, ancient history, world history, palaeolithic history, graham hancock pyramids, lost civilizations in the amazon, lost technology of pyramids, Ancient Egypt, megalithic structures, Aubrey Marcus podcast, archaeology discoveries, lidar amazon forest, Spirituality, gnosticism explained, matias de stefano

Id: 1y71YICe9uE

Length: 94min 59sec (5699 seconds)

Published: Wed Dec 14 2022