NEW EVIDENCE In Mike Postle Investigation

all over again smile smile when the camera starts up all right you ready i'm ready let's get it what's up guys doug polk here and welcome back to the channel today we're doing something very special now if you've been following anything in poker for the last i'm going to say 72 hours why am i hearing myself stop you ready we're off to a good start all right there we go anyway if you've been following poker for the last 72 hours you would know that the talk of the town right now is of course poker stars being bought by betfair no it's the mike possible cheating allegations joey that's what the people are here for that's what they want allegedly i said allegations um but anyway before we jump into that i want to give catch everyone up to speed a little bit so um essentially what's happened a little quick overview the situation is that there is a player at stone's casino who has a uh absolutely phenomenal track record of winning in virtually every session he plays by making a wide variety of unorthodox plays that happen to be very very very strong against the hands that his opponents have this includes leading in situations that basically no other players would lead this includes playing some very questionable hands pre-flop and it also includes some downright pre-flop soul reads like folding kings in one spot correctly but also correctly getting all in with 5'4 off suit i mean we've got a real wide variety of uh of hands to choose from and talk about and then there's a lot of supplementary information as well like for example um you know he has some connections with the people at stones particularly one guy uh whenever he's there he seems to be playing on the street more often and there's a bunch of other surrounding information as well including some updates today uh like uh the hat stuffing which is frankly just weird joey that has sure allegedly uh there's a lot of stuff to talk about here lots of the breakdown but uh i just wanted to catch everyone up to speed with all of that so what are we doing today we're going to be doing a long form video where we're going to talk about all of these updates to the story we're going to get a little more in depth in some of the stuff we've talked about before might look at a few hands and of course we're going to get the insight from another expert investigator in fact sherlock poppy is joining us here today listen uh doug i've only streamed i've only streamed for 16 hours the past three days all going over the mike possible sessions the god of poker debatably one of the best players i've ever seen in the entire world but doug i don't know if you know this but last night we did another live stream and we found we found a session where the god was not in full god mode it was very rare to see the guy was he actually lost a few all-ins the first session i've seen him lose all ins he made very weak plays the the true colors came out for the gods so now we have some discrepancies in our investigation so now i've personally watched over 40 hours every hand this guy's played 40 hours locked in zoomed in bet sizes frequencies range constructions what's this guys doing i'm i'm becoming one with this guy doug i feel like i am the guy in some way i just like our minds have melded together and i know what he's gonna do i can watch it and i have a good idea what he's gonna do in situations that's just how locked that i am right now with the gods playstyle so we watched him yesterday one session didn't quite have it doug you know i felt bad because and i got to apologize to you actually because on on night two i made a statement after watching the god absolutely [ __ ] dominate to the tune of over twenty thousand dollars making the right decision on every single street i i said something doug and i regret it after watching session three the first time is because i did say doug and i i mentioned your name i said that i think you and your prime at the heads up nolan holden when you were debatably the number one player in the entire world in existence at texas hold'em i said that you and your prime verse apostle and his prime would be no contest possibly able to take you down and now i have to take that back and i gotta run that statement back because i watched him yesterday and we saw a god become a mortal man and he played just like the kind of player you would expect him to play so now we have some discrepancies why was that session different what happened was there an investigation going on the casino was someone else there someone not there i don't know but this is where the the soldiers on the ground need to dig into this deeper and figure out what's going on here because we can only do so much ourselves doug we're just here in our studios where we like to film things trying to figure out what's happening we can't do it all doug so the soldiers on the ground are out there right now they're in pursuit and uh listen but like i said many times nothing's been proven yet doug okay these are all allegations nothing been proven it's just the guys 162 of 69 sessions up 250 some thousand dollars allegedly according to our best research and uh it just seems a little strange that's all that we just okay questions it seems like so a lot to unpack there um but for starters you know i i think like when we let's kind of talk about this big picture let's get into some of the updates that you're talking about because i think that would be the most logical uh progression here so having looked at some of these hands joey and having seen the you know the ability for him to play so perfectly on the river um what you know as a professional player obviously you've played poker for a very long time maybe not no limit hold them but you know potlum and omaha and a little bit of nolan home every now and then what kind of jumps out at you from these hands maybe for someone that's a little more new to poker that doesn't quite understand exactly why this looks so bad what kind of jumps out of you as some red flags that you know this is not legitimate right i think any time you see a player seeming to make the right play depending on what their opponent has so this guy is an absolute god in in any variation of a pot he can be it could be a single race pot four-way three-way five-way all different multi-way and we're going to play one hand from last night's stream and i think maybe we should get into that get into that shoot and show them exactly what the god's capable of yeah so this guy in these single raised multi-way pots three bet multi-way pots three bed heads-up pots he just has an incredible success rate to stab with very little to no equity kind of bluffs and the times that he seems to do this his opponents have absolutely nothing the times that he loses big pots on the river and gets called his opponent has a third pair or four pair or worse so they make debatably very terrible calls these are the only times we see this guy lose these big hands so these things right there jump out how does a man make a a successful decision all the time on the river how can this be how can a man cold call three bets four bets with eight five and nine five and this guy be the top winner in the world at the stakes it's just right these things are little peculiar i think back to something that happened to me um like it must be like eight years ago now where i was playing a session online and um i was playing against a player and they they seemed to always know exactly the right move and one of the one of the telltale signs of that that you're being cheated in poker is what do they do on the river because in the river there are no more cards that are going to come out whoever wins is going to win so because of that if you're cheating you know it doesn't make a lot of sense to call you're either going to fold a raise and the reason is either you're beat and so you don't want money in or you're ahead and if you're ahead why ever call just put more money in right you can win more money if you put more money in so one of the absolute most clear-cut signs who's cheating in poker is on the river they don't call they raise or fold because they know where they're at now maybe once in a while you know if they're good at cheating or or quite often if they're good at cheating they'll call to make it look not suspect right they'll lose one on purpose but the the bottom line is players call frequency river dramatically drops they just get into these weird raising wars right which is exactly what we saw in a lot of these possible hands on the river we get into these weird raising wars because guess what um you know and again it's not 100 it's not 100 the guy cheated if you ask me the probability i would say it's probably like a thousand to one that he did to he didn't so we can't say 100 without doubt he did not cheat but the point is these weird raising wars break out when you know you're ahead because why ever call right or if you know your opponent's bluffing why ever call you can just get them out of the pop um so that's that's one of the the biggest signs to make science to me uh and i think also like you know what's kind of interesting and some a dynamic that people don't think about is if you're cheating you don't have to play um type preflop you don't have to only play the better hand you can play worse hands because the idea is you know what cards hit your opponent or not you're going to get the best bluff spots you're going to know exactly where they're at and you're going to be able to put them to the test and if we look at all of the big pots that possible lost on this stream you know they're almost all he put somebody in an insanely tough river spot that they really should have to fold and they just dig deep and find a call and those are actually some of my favorite hands that i've seen from the whole thing when when someone gets their foot like they're like in a terrible situation they got eggs high they got third pair there whatever and mike has just gone all in over the top right and they're like you know what [ __ ] it and they just call him and he's bluffing right and so like you know people are like oh he he loses some hands in the river yeah the ones where he's running insanely accurate and good bluffs against weak hands where he gets looked up so i think that's that what at least jumps out to me as the most likely evidence that that something is well you know you know what jumps out to me doug and uh there's some people are saying just turn your mic up a little bit so maybe maybe you might turn up a little bit yeah my mic or your mind your mic yeah all right yeah there we go we're good i think what jumps out to me doug is that i can watch a man play for a six hour stream and not see the man make any losing decisions and win every single hand and win twenty thousand dollars on a stream by playing in a way that you would think there's no [ __ ] way that this guy should ever win twenty thousand dollars in one session at a five five ten game or five five game or whatever they think it's at the straddle that session doug mean you gotta watch this session together saturday me and you need to sit down and we got to go over these hands for the people out there you have to see i'm doug i'm this is the greatest poker you're ever going to see i'm and i know you're not watching a lot of poker but i promise you if you watch this session with me i i i couldn't believe what i was seeing i've never seen a greater athletic display of performance you've got michael jordan winning six championships you've got tiger woods winning countless countless things you've got bill russell taking down those ten rings right you have you had there's so many these these great athletic displays in our lifetime and i guarantee you doug if you watch this stream that i watched on night two the first part you will believe in a higher power than god because there's never been a dominance displayed on a poker stream like this guy did he did not make a wrong decision the entire time and absolutely dominated let's get let's get back to talking about michael jordan in a moment here i i want to bring up a a hand that you linked to me um doug listen i need you can you help me here can i help you in what way i don't i you got to explain this hand okay so let me let i i've actually not i've actually not seen this hand i i i you're you're in for a treat you're in for okay i'm sorry that doug hasn't seen his hand he's i sent him all right so let's actually start start with this pre-flop i think that's the that's that and we're watching the recorded footage of you talking about this hand i'm serious you guys are at home right now i'm not this is an exaggeration okay this is no click bait this is this is all right so we've got we've got let me kind of walk us through the hand so we've got under the gun plus one raising the 75 and then you see the people too yeah it's on it's on the it's on the youtube they can all see they can also see the hand um so it looks like we've got uh a three-way pot here where it goes open and we've got i think five callers i do believe maybe there's a three bet there's not a three but it's a race right okay that makes sense so we have a five-way flop uh we've got some hands that certainly should have three bet but here we are so we've got four deuce eight four ten five queen jet ace queen ace king so we've got a lot of weak hands we do we do have a jackass jay in the lead with poc with a pair of fives oh sorry uh apostles with top pair of course all right so six way 450 in the pot six by four already in the pot let's see where we're at yeah this is a bit of a dicey situation you can certainly be behind a lot of hands like your opponent could have better eight they can have an over pair obviously there's always some chance of a set uh not really gonna be too many two pairs in this board though and the action checks to ace king tries to take a stab we get a call from the open ender and now apostle he's thinking it over he decides to call okay that's a very reasonable call i think that's actually what most people would do here in fact maybe all players in a six-way flop i don't think there's too much argument for raising so i kind of like i kind of like his decision here what are we going to get now all right we gotta call okay so we have classic five-way turn live poker is certainly happening here turn to nine all right so why would the temperature fold i don't know let's just think about this for a second uh so the flush gets in ace queen's got the nut flush draw open ender has a really shitty flush draw jackass j has a middling flush draw yeah if you're apostle you're toast now you're done with this hand you're done or are you done with this i i mean it's a five-way turn people can just have flushes um you have no equity or you have no redraw against any made flash you have no redraw against um a straight uh higher two pair anything like that so you're you're done here this is obviously just a check and a fold i don't think there's any i don't think that there's any top poker player in the world although any is always a strong word to use that would advocate for anything other than a check fold here it's not even a good bluff hand because you don't have any kind of removal against flushes you don't have any equity uh you know maybe if you had a hand like you're you're really taking this one seriously i like this as well the canned clubs yeah we're doing it in depth we're doing an in-depth review here right i like this okay so we've got a a 750 bet here from the player with ace queen i actually like this bluff from this player by the way this makes a lot of sense he knows the known as the nut flush draw he has the nut flush draw a lot of hands just have to fold and you're going to get i mean probably all these hands to fold i think well in theory or are you okay now apostle has he's got they're playing three thousand effective this is there's there's just no way you can continue here i i mean like i i wish like i could say like maybe you have a real stone cold read in your opponent but no no have you pointed out to the audience that he is he is a self-proclaimed psychological master and a live reads expert been playing 16 years well okay so he calls the turn and i guess if you're gonna call the turn you get a brick river is he quite i'm on the edge of my seat joey so the guy the guy snap shoves for 2k effective here oh yeah oh he's going to aaron rodgers putting the hands on the head like he's [ __ ] waiting for the signal from from mike mccarthy oh my lord now we go into the hollywood act hands on the face he loves la right he loves laughing at you right before he's about to [ __ ] [ __ ] you over and take some money from you this guy loves to laugh at you there's just no there's just no way you can call here there's just no way you can call here there's no way you can call the turn yeah quick chuckle guy it's it's it's so sick to me he does i just started i love i love this guy he just laughs at you before he heroes you every time it's amazing like he loves it he like taunts you a little bit too like well i mean i got eight four you know i got here five way i gotta yeah we gotta call the river let's know what he's saying here everybody knows this this tab muted okay i guess whatever sounds not gonna work okay so ultimately he makes the call here right i mean he does make the call yeah okay so i would say as a player who has played professionally for many years say a decade at the highest stakes i would say that this isn't a thing at all i would say if i saw this hand in isolation where the production plays the memes afterwards they have a one where he's dressed like jesus christ and then they have a book they made about him the power of possible thinking i've shown that they're crushing souls and running pure yeah that's also a bit disgusting that they're in on the joke right like the after the hand over the production let's pause this before they have him dressed like jesus christ yeah like that's that's just it's so it's so unbelievable that not only are they just most likely cheating these people they're cheating them and then running memes about how great apostle is right it's it's like disgusting yeah it's like they're just like um they're like stealing in broad daylight is basically what they're doing here they're like yeah we're gonna we're gonna you know we're gonna have mike play absolutely perfect and then run memes about how great he runs slash how perfect he is and then never never question exactly what's happening just say he's just like he just doug he just he just thinks differently than us like we like we think gto he thinks [ __ ] [ __ ] pto possible theory optimal he's just on a different level than everyone else's doug okay so it's just another sample of handsome by the way guys if you're interested in some hand reviews i've actually got a few possible poker hands uh coming up on the channel in the near future so definitely stay tuned for those if you guys are interested in it and also if you want a really in-depth review joey has done i believe it is 73 hours of footage at this point right joey yeah i have i have a five hour first night six hour last night six hour the night before so yeah i've got i went over and this is one hand they're like 30 plus hands like this and then 50 to 100 other spots where things are just get a little weird so do you think this is uncommon this is not uncommon this is a very normal kind of possible hand we actually have some breaking news in the middle of this by the way don't tell me what this is what is it i'm excited okay i want to show the audience how serio so uh for those who don't know stones live poker announced that they are actually going to be relaunching their thorough investigation they said they did one before there was zero cheating uh and now they've said that they're relaunching it and i want everyone to know that stones is taking this very seriously you might be asking yourself just how seriously let me show you head over there if you head over to their twitter you can see that they have a very serious business background banner now which is stones live with jail bars a youtube play button and a police hat on here uh which which you know definitely not taking like the [ __ ] of these cheating allegations they're they're serious here and so they've updated this accordingly to to show their seriousness about about what's happening with the show um so you know i i for one i see this trolling is like another meme they're memeing essentially i i feel a lot better about like the direction that this this case is headed when i see this it really says to me that they're gonna do the right thing here joey i i gotta i just i gotta ask you man is this real life like is this whole thing real life because it's starting to get to a point where i don't even know i just don't even know anymore you know it's just it's just too it's just simply too much it's just all it's all a little bit too much i mean listen i don't know what's happening man i we're being told out there right so if if there is something happening here people are saying you got to investigate investigate everyone involved the people in production the people behind the scenes anyone that's that works there so i don't know what's going to happen right now but as we've said they did the last investigation themselves they fit they found zero evidence it was completely fabricated and obviously that's not true i did 20 minutes of a live stream i found a bunch of evidence that needed to be investigated or we could have made a good argument to be investigated and then the pope community has watched that that those content you made a video about it and they've all decided yeah there's probably something going on here so i don't know whoever the former investigation team is they're either in on it or they're the worst investigators of all time and there's there's only two ways to go about it either the worst investigators or they're in on whatever happening so are the guy's just the best player in the world and they couldn't find anything because he's the best player in the world he never makes the wrong decision you know what i would love i would love to get you as the lead investigator head on down to stones get the footage right do some eyewitness accounts get some people in there and make the documentary that we all need to shed some light in the issue one now they're saying you're louder than me and two you give me 10 hours on the camera there i'll crack this case 10 hours with the behind i mean obviously that the kind of thing can't happen so but yeah man i don't know i don't really know what's gonna happen here man i think we're still early right these things only came out a couple days ago this is like what three days old four days old or something like that so these things do take time as well too let's uh let's talk about the the number of winning sessions in a row for a bit i think that's an interesting point and we're eventually gonna get to the updates i know i know the internet sleeps have a lot of updates that we can we're gonna go through as well um but i think it's something that a lot of people if you're new to poker or you're not familiar with how poker works they might think like okay so the guy won a lot like what's the big deal the big deal is that when you play poker your edges are small and it's not like a lot of other like you know sports or a game like chess where there's not variants uh their edges are are really small so like if i played against like the most casual viewer today and their strategy was i just go all in every hand i can only beat you like 60 of the time or 65 of the time it depends on how deep we are so uh the point is like you know you just don't go on runs like this you know you might you might go on a five session winning streak and then a few times in your life you might go on a 10. but it compounds like let's say you're a 55 favorite to win in order to win 10 or 0. it's 55 times 55 and then when you look at his record over the last year or so i look i believe you looked at the numbers and posted some stuff on it and then you get and you start to think about the fact that the guys won like you know 35 of his last 37 sessions or something like that it's it's it's it's a truly remarkable streak even without any other evidence that's almost just damning enough because the chance of that actually happening legitimately is so low i agree yeah man it's uh and when you go over the results from this year there's a couple losing sessions in there two or three of those it might just be they counted the chip stacks wrong as well too so we don't really know we can't know for sure exactly if those were true losing sessions but like i said there's the one outlier session i've seen which i went through last night where it wasn't going in his favor right the hat was backwards the demeanor at the table was different he wasn't doing the stare at the dick stare every time he had a decision in the middle of a pot like you know there was none there was none of the dick stare there was very fast action there wasn't as much tanking there wasn't as much uh of a animated this animated behavior during these hands that that was shown like you could go it's night and day you go from this the other ones it's night and day and coincidentally enough we see the guy get all in multiple times and lose which we have not seen him do in these other spots this happens more he chops one time and then he loses three other pots and all of his stabs very weird he stabs in the weird spots they don't work in some spots the spots where he was stabbing that worked successfully he was not taking those pots on this one too all of his tendencies were different it was just it was it was like watching a completely different player play i i'm stunned this is you're telling me this is the same guy that had 62 of 69 winning sessions and is up 253 000 in these games it's just hard to believe and it's very suspicious very suspicious yes right and i think uh there were some people mentioning that over the course of time now there there's rumors circulating less substantiated for sure but you know with some evidence as well that there's a player named justin uh cara what's his they call him jfk i think his his poker handle is uh i'm gonna go ahead and put him up here on this screen i believe that this this guy is somehow well he's certainly related with stones he's the chairman director at stone's gambling um and has also been potentially uh involved with uh mike in in in at least some ways you know we do know mike was starting his own show no no no no no i no no he hasn't but he's been has been involved so there is a tweet from mike that i found where uh so mike started this thing called the dream poker it's like the dream poker tour dream poker show what the dream poker show was it was one time and it was like a variation of a cash game and a tournament they ran this one time at stones there is information on the internet from mike himself that they ran a test him and justin were the people in charge of this test they ran the test privately though we don't know where that was but was it off scores out of there where was it at we don't know exactly where this private testing went down this was back in 2017. i do have that screenshot of this tweet and confirmation from mike possible on his twitter page so now we have that direct connection right there and of course as justin says they are friends for a long time there's much information of those two hanging out it seems like justin is one of mike's biggest fans and now this is just speculation right this is what a lot of people are going to next if they say always work on someone but there's absolutely no proof out there that something is happening once again so there is the chance that hey this guy just didn't know about it he's just the worst investigator of all time and has absolutely no no ability to really look at the clues so it's just still early right we don't really know but there is that direct connection to the back end of working with the production working with the stream side of things from mike's side right and and we can see here going through some of his tweets um it is unfortunate these allegations were made public with absolutely no evidence unreal uh which which is which is which is just just good old-fashioned comedy here uh i don't really like how can you look at what has happened and your conclusion is absolutely none the reputation of my team and an exciting fun player okay this phrase for those of you that are new to poker is what they call losing players um you know it's it's uh it's a nice way of being like this guy sucks which which is which is also quite funny to me because the guy wins basically every session so he's an exciting fun player who i shouldn't say steals quite yet but wins your money every session are now being publicly mobbed we have taken every step to ensure game integrity including consulting with respect to streamers and it firms so um you know definitely some strong takes here and i believe the one session that you have you're talking about uh joey that he looked like a a mere mortal was the one where uh justin may or may not have been out of town i think like some accounts have justin being out of town over the course of those dates so there's there's speculation circling that these these two are are perhaps both in on this together which uh certainly could be the case i mean look here's the thing so you know in order for him to be able to do this he there's a simple answer and the simple answer is when you create a poker show you record it live okay and when it's live the people in the back have access to the cards they do that's the way that it has to be you put your cards they get scanned the signal goes to the back so that it can be it can be recorded and so those people in the back do have access to that information live then it is put out on a delay so that if a player had their phone and looking at the stream they would see it later so there's no possibility a player at the table could somehow see the cards in order for mike to do this it seems almost mandatory that someone in the back was in cahoots with him almost mandatory i mean maybe there's some way that he figured out how to read the rfid at the table right but i would you know i don't think it's possible i don't want to say something is impossible because i'm not uh no it is i've done i've done the research i've looked into the various different ways these things can go down there are scenarios where this could be this could be a rogue one-man operation there are also scenarios he could be the the god you know joey we got we got shot with the god thing because i think some people might get a little bit confused for those of you that are not familiar joey is making a mockery of how good the guy's decisions are by calling him a god the guy plays like a god i'm gonna watch him play you guys can see the people 152 thousand dollars at the [ __ ] one three and five five game doug you're telling me that's not a god no no no no it's what the guy's doing man that is some amazing stuff right there without everyone these he got these he suckered everybody in there to like they just bought oh my god apostle doug would fold but apostle knows what to do he knows what he's exploit he's exploit he's got libraries psychology they like bow down to him they justify all of his plays it's it's it's it's unlike nothing i've ever heard and it makes sense right if a guy wins all the time you're probably going to think this guy's doing something that is just i mean they make jokes that he can see the cards they make jokes that that he just knows what to do he knows what's coming he makes jokes that they make jokes on the stream that this guy just knows something that no one else knows while playing what do you think you know when i when so all right my hunch if i had if you said doug break it down what exactly happened okay this is this is my hunch my hunch is he was cheating and someone in the back was relaying him the cards in some fashion either to his phone or to some device or to something that let him know what people had or if he was good or whatever it is and then there may or may not have been one or two other people that were involved in the operation i personally find the reaction of some of the commentators to stuff that's happening a little bit troubling now one one reason well one reason i went troubling is like the guy that i posted or tweeted uh let me actually pull this up as well because i think this this this guy his reaction to what happened in a situation i felt like was a little bit weird um but basically i was going through the i was going through the uh some of the weird hands right and it gets to a point where um apostle is going to call off his chips pre-flop with 5'4 off suit correctly which i have never seen in my entire career in poker never seen that happen even though i want nobody but the rings and he has a good time but yeah yeah yeah yeah anyway um i've never seen that once in my entire life but he did it correctly he didn't just do it he did it correctly and when the commentators start to realize that he's about to do this [ __ ] this guy all of a sudden has to scratch his eyeballs and this guy gives a shifty look off to the side while trying to cover his face like like to me you know and this is certainly not enough to substantiate any degree of guilt right certainly not enough but these the way that these guys responded to this you know like like i've watched a lot of poker if i somewhat saw someone doing this i would be like what is going on what is mike thinking of doing like wait why is he still in the hand what's happening and then when he calls i would say like what is this he's just punting off money they they not only didn't seem surprised they looked very sketchy while it was going on and then when he puts in the money they almost actually try to kind of justify it in a way like this is the look this guy gives off to the side it's almost like oh [ __ ] we're gonna have to actually do this and then he's like yeah you know they can have an ace and they could both have an ace and like he's just scrambling for like what could be what could it be right uh but not in like a not in like a bad way right justified we've seen the commentators come out we've seen veronica and we also seen casey mills they both came out and said they suspected something so i imagine that maybe they did suspect something but they didn't know what to say or they didn't want to get fired like we don't know how what living situation these people are maybe they're making a lot of money from stones and they don't want to bite the hand that feeds them maybe they voice their concerns like veronica did who was the whistleblower in this situation and then she's told by the management like justin [ __ ] off what are you thinking no you're an idiot you don't know what you're talking about you don't know poker ever it's completely fabricated there's no evidence here so maybe there were concerns voiced but we don't know much about those concerns and at some point you're just like well there's no other way to explain this like you're just you're as baffled as everyone else's i feel like so completely true here here's where oh here's where i'm at joey um i think that he was cheating okay i think that someone in the back was relaying the cards i think it was most likely justin but we don't really know the timelines add up to where when justin was out of town doing stuff he played the stream way less and one of those sessions was the one he looked like a mere mortal i think that potentially a small number of analysts commentators were in on it but the thing is i think it has to be a really small number of those types of people because in order for uh this to work you can't have leaks and if you have even one leak the whole sink ships so you know maybe there were no other people maybe there were i think an interesting angle that hasn't been discussed at all yet which is a bit surprising considering how much discussion there's been is was he the only person because if one guy is cheating what's the chance that they would do that with another person right and to me the answer to that is pretty high i think that i actually think that what stones needs to do is get an exact record of everyone's won and lost on the show over the last i don't know how long stones have been going let's just call it a couple of years and then see who were the other big winners how did they play and then we need to look at the footage of all those people i think it's safe to assume that the people losing money didn't cheat you never really know for sure but if you know the cards i think that uh i think that that's just a little bit i just want to say i have i i've given a lot of information and i have gotten information on other people involved with production that may have been out of town around this same period of time too not just justin i also got information from potentially other players that are involved in the game as well too to maybe take a look at them so yeah i think that's a very very real possibility right and you have to assume everything you have to assume that if that's taken place then well why wouldn't there be something else taking place too so it seems logical that if one thing's going on there's probably more going on correct yeah until it's at least possible i mean that should be part of the investigation here as well right um so uh so yeah some people brought up justin's timeline he was in vegas over the summer and when i was going through and looking at apostles results and putting together my video uh i realized that he did not play that much from like during july june and july yeah so i basically very little i broke down the play patterns last night so he has dates for all these questions did you tweet like i could pull it up if you did yeah so there's there's the sheet of all the dates that apostles played this year the all those big gaps in the biggest gap occur during this time period and there's multiple other big gaps that are kind of uncommon for the rest of the year that occur during this period so if you just look at those things now it just brings another piece to the puzzle and say okay well now we got these gaps what happened with the gaps and stuff like that too i love this by the way the uh the vpip win rate thing um for those of you that aren't familiar with this basically this shows uh from the ultimate bet days all of the players by vpip on the y-axis so this is how many hands they choose to play and the bottom is how much money they win essentially and what you can see is as players start to play too loose they start to lose more money it shifts towards the side pot ripper was the super user back on ultimate back back then and he was playing almost every hand and winning at an ungodly rate and people looked at this and they said this this this image alone was actually proof enough to say this guy's a cheat uh this is possible plays a little tighter but he wins a lot more so uh you know go ahead and draw whatever conclusions you may draw from that one joey you tweet too much where oh is this it i tweet too much is that one of the biggest stories in poker i'm tweeting too much i'm only tweeting enough this is literally one of the biggest stories i've ever i've ever seen in the poker world so this spreadsheet that you tweeted is the uh date uh and buy-ins of winnings correct yes approximately approximately the the researchers went through this and these are the numbers that they found with the notes as well too approximately two to our best guesses at the current moment in time uh um so in the interest of um of accurate journalism are were you able to find rebuys because when i went through this i i i sort of scanned right this is other people that are that are that have been doing this there's been multiple people that have been accumulating this data right now too to see they have been tracking rebuys of course these could be not 100 accurate in terms of knowing when the rebuys took place as well too but this is to their best guess for right now this seems to be approximate and sometimes they estimate it down as well too sometimes they estimate it up so we're looking at this is just 2019. just 2019 2018 results are just at the bottom in a whole number oh i see okay i gotcha all right so we're looking at a quarter million dollars one on the show at an average big blind up would you say would you say it's fair to say like seven dollars or ten dollars and there's a bunch of straddles so let's say average big win of of fifteen dollars probably right ten maybe ten dollars but yeah but there's a lot of these hands have straddles like that i mean not too many most of the hands are with it with a 10 straddle some are with five some are with three but it seems like there's a bunch of ten on as well too okay so we're looking at uh 277 hours of play six okay so he won 62 out 69 sessions right but not he lost twice in june right which is definitely interesting um but he won 62 out of 69 sessions uh and won 250 000 over 277 hours i want to pull up a calculator really quick so that we can just quickly calculate out what that looks like so uh joey i'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and include some more straddles i think you would let's say that the average big blind here was effectively 14 okay um which because i i really like to go i like to give them a little bit of the benefit of the doubt in these any type of situation so we're looking at 253 000 divided by 14. so he won 18.1 000 big blinds over 277 hours so if we divide this by 220 sorry 277 so he won 65 big blinds per hour now what a good win rate is for those of you that are new to poker or live poker maybe a lot of you guys probably know this a good uh goal to strive for when you play live poker is to win five to ten big binds per hour i think if you're winning 10 big blinds per hour playing live poker you were smashing it there's a lot of arguing about this my personal opinion is that you should go for amp for five and i think a lot of live poker players are liars and always just essentially exaggerate how much they win because there's really no way to prove anything so it's my hunch that five is a better estimate you play like 25 30 hands an hour so that's really winning at like 15 20 big wins as it is i i don't think 10 is possible in many games in the world but there certainly are some that it is uh he's only at 65. okay 65. so my opinion 10 not really possible almost anywhere in the world uh we've got mike coming in at a hot 65. what do you think about that joey doug there's only a few logical conclusions we can come to here right okay let me lay out the possible scenarios for people out there and and you guys can we can think more about it we go from there right so the guy is a god at poker and he's one of the best players of all time right that's one he's a god at poker and runs like a god at poker he's okay at poker or good at poker and he runs like a god or he's awful at poker and runs like a god so it's either four of those or it's that he runs like a god it plays like a god but he has some sort of access to some sort of information by himself or with other people i think you could just i think what is more likely in this scenario i think you can just say that that he has access to the cards without two different god comments um but yeah i mean i'm with you and like since since the summer ended the guy is on another quite hot streak here yeah you've got uh look at the look at these wins i mean the guy's just crazy he's just booking wins i actually went through the most recent session a little bit myself uh lots of lots of phenomenal play man lots of truly truly phenomenal play going on i actually saw something that i did not put in my video on this session uh the 9 21 session in fact let me what'd you see i want to show you something that i think is really interesting i haven't watched this session let me uh okay let me just bring it up here so you you entertain people joey well while i look this up i mean i can obviously respond all right but yeah yeah if you guys i saw something very subtle but i think i think is is actually kind of important let me lock the [ __ ] in let's go what do you got kid i mean you better make sure i see this right now so essentially the way this goes down is he he's in a hand against berkey okay and he gets big bet berkey he doesn't get berkey here because berkey berkey figured out the counter to someone knowing your cards what's the counter joey the counter would be to call more in spots potentially and flop boats flop boats is is the oh yeah just make the nuts if you if you flop boats it's going to be really really difficult for them to beat you let me pull this up i don't know what is the counter to beat something how do we beat this [ __ ] guy i think that this is very clear-cut to me yeah possibly sorry guys that was pretty loud okay let me pull this up and pick a full screen all right let's go to this i'm on a little delay here with the thing can you share the video with me on zoom sure uh you know what no okay sorry i just can't be bothered oh oh could i share it on no let me just can you do youtube yeah this is my first time doing this in a while okay so let's let's find this exactly i believe it's at 420 420 439 it's in this vicinity okay this is the hand so watch very closely what happens here okay i got it on mine too once i once i can find this these streams are long so there's a lot of data to go through that's a lot of data to go through hundreds of hours out there guys hundreds of hours where i just saw it and i just went past it he does something that i think is very very suspicious okay and and kind of obvious when you look at it let me pull this up okay i should have had this prepared ready to go sorry guys just bear with me i know what's in this vicinity shout out to trooper is it 429 431 okay here we go okay so this is this is it i'm gonna play this all right so watch watch how apostle checks his cards here i think it's really important okay i'm locked in um because i think it shows that there's something very very funny going on with the way he looks at his cards so he's first going to look at his cards do i have it after okay see he pulls him up he looks at his cards right shovels them pulls them looks okay he can see his cards right now right looking at them he looked down he can see his cards now he's gonna go for a second look he does this often he's gonna go for a second look and watch what he does with his head now it's all the way down look again now when people look at their cards they don't look at them put them down and then go for a deep dive in looking down again what is what is he doing on the second look that's what i want to know what is this what is this hand on head look all the way down cover his eyes look again why would you look the second time it does not make sense and he's just going to scan berkey here most likely but berkey knows the counter [Laughter] oh it's amazing it's honestly amazing okay so yeah so i saw that and i thought like you know we see we see a lot of stuff kind of like that right where it's um we see a lot of stuff kind of like that where he he just does this why are the keys always on the table like what like is he trying to make the guy like the keys are always sitting there it doesn't doesn't that seem a little strange to anybody the guy has his [ __ ] keys on the table every session oh why why are they why are they on the table yeah why are the keys on the table it's another it's another it's another question right um why are the keys always on the table just doesn't make much sense to me right okay so so what's your hunch here julie what's your hunch what's going on well listen my hunch is that this is uh there's some there's probably some people involved with this guy that have been allowing this guy to get away with this and my hunch is that maybe there's some outside activities that guys involved with i'm told that he enjoys by himself he enjoys sports betting he enjoys the dfs world he enjoys he enjoys gambling up a little bit i think i just read recently on twitter from someone who was a big defender of him something related to borrowing money i don't know exactly what the context of this kind of stuff is but i think you'd be led to believe that this guy really needed money in some capacity if he's doing this because there's no other way to explain this outside of just pure just this consistent greed just a desire to really embarrass people and make them look silly and look foolish and really buy into this whole god mode complex that was then thrown upon him by viewers and by commentators and by the people involved with the show in terms of the memes in terms of the treatment in terms of the words so if i had to guesstimate i'd say this guy was just like this is awesome this is great you know i haven't felt like this way in poker in a long time i used to be online i used to have good results and then for whatever reason i didn't start doing well online i've tried to play some tournaments i have marginal success over the years but it just seems like maybe some things happened to this guy and um you know he found this system out he's trying to start businesses in the past he tried to start the dream poker show that didn't work out well one episode went down i found other businesses out there he's tried to start you know it doesn't seem like those amounted to anything like that so maybe this guy said hey i found something that's going really well for me i'm gonna keep it up and what didn't really go up onto the smartest way at some point in time he said okay i'll take it easy but then he's like well i'm never going to get no one ever figured me out so i'm going to keep going here and then just kind of kept with it and and um you know i don't know man it's just it's a very it just i don't see how another scenario could be possible here i'm open to it yeah let's actually see let's let's let's have that discussion okay so what's the scenario where he's innocent like is there he's the best player he's best one of the best players it's tough joey because like you know originally i think i said it's 99.9 percent guilty but it's really probably more like 89.999 or something um because you know you you do want to make sure that you're fair to people in the chance that they're innocent and the problem is at least at this point and i think that that will eventually change but at this point we do not have the for sure for sure smoking gun now we have stuff that is very close like the clip that you posted um so i'm gonna show this as well i think because the viewers i think will enjoy this one we got so much stuff this is great because we have so many things we can pull up yeah you know well there's there's just there's just so many different things that we can talk about you talked about mike's first response to this was to tell everyone how he's better than them at poker and then challenge them to play that's an amazing response through that one or no i i've not we should actually look at mike's twitter next let's let's do that as the next thing we're doing um and joey you know what i'm showing my screen a lot let me let me just try to find a way to also share it with you okay could i i guess i could just share it on on this program right exactly yeah you could you could go to share the green button you also need to fix the oh i'm something there mine sure let's put it on this other screen oh wait you can just pick the window yeah okay so here we go all right that works i think that works right okay so you can see this right right okay definitely a chance that i'm going to uh a great video that is all right um listen hey if you guys out there want to wat before your next poker session you watch the video right there on pinned on my tweet you will guarantee via a better chance to win okay so uh let's find this where is it basically this hand where is the six four spades oh this video is amazing as well where's the nine five off suit right where is it it is so far down here is it there nine five or six four right is this one that one right there yeah okay so he says right he makes a comment in this video it's unbelievable doug he makes a comment that says i can't lose here the guy turns a gut shot he says oh sh oh [ __ ] and then the river after it comes he goes you scared me and he can't see the cards at this point in time the cards are not flipped over by his opponent also not to mention he calls a three bet calls a four bet he does the whole hat aaron rodgers thing on the head and then he opens up three thousand dollars into the other guy who four bet pre-flop on the [ __ ] jack nine left with two hearts let's actually watch this i may have ever seen at a poker table this guy's the top winner in the world let's watch this clip real quick okay you guys are like solid rhymers in the chat you guys loving it it doesn't matter so he opens the 60 with nine five and now his explanation for this is that he wanted to get this guy brian back to avenge his friend jake's honor okay so let's watch this for a second i don't know what sizing we actually got why is he gonna do the look down um is it going to not load that's how twitter goes just just re-click someplace else great or more than 200 i mean whatever you think you can get now he's debating calling a three-bet so brian inexplicably squeezes with the six four he does the look-down thing he scratches the hat rubbing on himself a little bit massaging his back of his neck just because i mean i mean he doesn't derek sticky and my feet what is he doing when he does that i i i mean like you'd have to imagine there's there's like there's got to be something to do with it right because why would you keep doing that right is it are you always putting something in play are you not the 9-5 are you balancing the times you are and you aren't you just want to keep the same mannerisms all the time played on stream with the nine five three calls and this guy back four bets pretty quickly with the ace queen they are pretty deep here they're about uh a little over four thousand dollars deep let's start with the hand yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah for a while let's just let's just let them talk so that people can follow for 11.95 oh my god and the lights [Music] look at mike's reaction like the lights went out on me man the lights go out wow no way and mike's like is this a sign is this the sign one way or the other how many things with one thousand ninety five yeah one's like one thousand ninety five this hand pulled all the energy out of our light fixture that's what happened right here holy crap jfk so such a massive hand the lights went out yes i think so i'd say this hand is lit but i can't well played osmotic i'm taking the six four all day yeah i feel like the 640 you know or or the nine five i mean it's definitely ace queen is definitely not winning this hand that's all i have to say mike yeah so it's gonna be so scared right now oh you're kidding oh we got a nine we got a nine ball for mike how many times are they gonna run it and mike oh and derek's like really dude and jack doesn't even have a club this is not even a club it's rough for derek rough spot for darren what is going through derek's mind if you're derek what are you what is what is your thought process right now there's a lot of expletives that are then followed by mike's name but no fire no mind do you feel like he does this on like so many boards is what you're like the problem is i mean even it doesn't matter whatever derek thinks he could be a head last name i have a really good hand that's all i know jake's going to be proud of me jake's going to be proud i love you baby i can't lose in this hand oh [ __ ] come on you're so bad okay so first off ella well this hand joey he just he he just decides to rip the nine five in facing a four bet cause like he wins with his hand or whatever and he happens against six four what a what a real coincidence i also it it [ __ ] disgusts me it disgusts me that they're doing stuff like having him be the devil in his avatar and they just keep like that's mike like they are [ __ ] cheating people out of their goddamn money here and joking about it that is [ __ ] disgusting okay there's a lot of i just like there's two guys it really it really it actually upsets me not only that are these stealing from people but then to mock to make a mockery of it it's like it's it's honestly really upsetting anyway um and then in this hand if we listen if we listen in and this was an amazing discovery on the turn when the turn comes to seven well listen to mikey jake's gonna be proud of me jake's gonna be proud i love you baby i can't lose with this hand okay he says oh [ __ ] on the seven how does he know that that card is oh [ __ ] right after he says i can't lose like if you got all in pre-flop like let's just think about this right as a poker player let's say you got all in prevail with nine five because like reads or whatever the hell what cards are you worried about when you're all in you're worried about aces kings queens jacks tens high cards really aces aces and kings and those are the cards you're worried about right when are you ever worried about gutters on the turn here when are you ever worried about that right very strange just just another very strange thing and and then on the river he says you scared me right the guy has not turned his hand over right or at least heading to that point right he has not turned his hand over his hand and then watch show when he wins show how show the reaction he has when he wins here do i have to show this i think i'm good i'm good they're happy on the rail you can see him in the background there i ever had ever played on stream to brian with when he defended with nine five off and mike p climbed to the top of the water tower to defend my honor i love you mike you're my boy blue you're my boy blue okay joey i gotta say man i i don't even know how to not share my screen or not anymore uh go to the top they see the top of the page it says stop sharing where is this it should be in green or something like that okay joey i gotta say i'm uh i'm a little i'm just a little upset about it this is not remember in that first clip where i started talking about i got that upset when the car this is how i felt man i've watched this guy for 40 hours i've strained it for 16. this is how i feel man this is why i'm watching this over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again this happens so often these type of plays it's just you're like how how can this how can this happen like how could this be happening on a live stream cash game with these guys who just are going there to just have a good time and they're just getting taken advantage of repetitively by this guy have you ever seen a a player who crushes the game just go all in randomly with these types of hands no i've never seen that in my entire life and people i i've never seen anything like this at least they lose sometimes they have like it's just we're getting down badly sometimes right i i have to do does he does he lose the all ins he has to lose olins right the only time that i've seen him lose the all ends was during that one show i talked to you about where he lost he lost three all ends so okay he doesn't lose all ins yeah i've i have i can't remember really i mean there i think i can't remember i can't i can't remember other times he's lost all ins no i really can someone in the chat try to verify if their hands are he loses all because because like there were wouldn't they be posted right people have been digging through these streams there that we cannot find hands where this guy was losing all ins except on the one stream i think there might have been another stream maybe in july where they said he left early and he got lost to buy-ins but that's that might be the only one i don't i don't know of other times where he's lost in all in he called it on with for a very short stack one time which is some plays he likes to do and he did lose that all in but in terms of getting all in for a big amount no there are no there are no big losses i can see no okay well so one thing i will say is he doesn't get all in that much he tends to get to the river and then play perfectly right which is i mean frankly joey good strategy no no no he gets all in but he happens to get all in he got all in with the eight five he cold call the three about eight five on the button uh the guy who i think the original three better or the original opener he check raised on the flop that flops eight six six mike c bet flop this guy check raise for two thousand dollars more and mike tank called with eight five on eight six six two spades so he got all in there and of course he took that one down too versus guy aaron so yeah we have seen him get all laid in questionable spots and uh seems to always be on the right side of things so i think he just doesn't get all in much right i think that's what it is so because like it it would be if he was getting all in a lot and not losing those there's another dimension to this which is he would know what cards are coming and i don't i don't think i don't think he knows what cards are coming that's why he tries to get to the river so much and then play there but he might he might not know the cards but he might know that he's going to win potentially you know who knows but if he knows how that so if he knows that he's going to win he has to know what cards are coming or they have to they have to know what cards are coming maybe yeah so so that that is much more complex that's that's a much more complex form of cheating than just knowing what your opponent has that's i know what they have and i know what's coming i don't think that's what they're doing because if again maybe they are i don't know uh it would be nice it would be it'd be really cool for someone to put together something that shows an analysis of all of the times he got all in and was equities looked like and how often he won i think that would be a really cool thing to look at right um but that's a much it'll be a much tougher form of cheating i think right like i said i've watched 34 hours of the guy's hand i haven't seen it like i hadn't seen it 34 hours i just haven't seen how many times over those 34 hours how many times did you see him get all in uh i've seen him bet all in i've seen him call all-ins in very unusual situations so in terms of how many times he's all in i can't think i don't think a lot off the top of my head but i did see him put in a a small amount of money with eight feet he does this he like he gives out the impression he makes these really random bad calls on flops and he'll make some even bad calls on turns and he'll give off the impression he's giving away more action than he actually is and he'll call that pre-flop he'll cold call these three bets and four bets with very very weird hands marginal hands very poor hands and so he does have these things where it's not too obvious it's not winning every spot winning every situation so but you'd think like he would would make a bad hero call here or there i mean there there hasn't been a bad hero call i've seen yet on a river in a big spot no i haven't seen like that are there any other hands that we wanted to kind of talk about there's honestly 30 hands that are just like that one bro there's the graphic changing hand allegedly the car the hand that the the yeah so let's check let's talk about the graphics changing right because then you have the jfk justin coming into the chat and saying oh no it was an rfid error i asked mike he's not that he's good but he's not that good you see that screenshot let me let me actually um let me share my screen again i should probably just leave it shared the way this is headed let me share my screen again and let's let's look at a couple of things that i think are pretty interesting where is this why can i not this one oh no it's not that's the wrong one sorry guys i'm trying to i'm trying to set up so joey can see and you guys can see and this is not oh fishing's everyone's on my desktop for a while sweet okay um what'd you get on the desktop nothing bad nothing bad okay uh let's see where is this this guy is the real-life matador from espn's tilt that's a great reference but i don't know about that but wait actually there is oh i can i can do it like this i'm gonna share this screen okay that's what i'm gonna do okay that's easy all right so let's take a look at a couple let's take a look at the um at the specific instant you're talking about here with the with the graphics okay let's talk about that let's pull up the let's pull up the handy question so um you linked to this right are you putting yes i listen to it it's um it's gonna be like yeah if i play the audio on this guys i'm going to get the video copyright striked but someone puts together a truly hilarious clip here of like us investigating a champion robert de niro in casino and then we take him to the back and berkey brings out the [ __ ] song i love the i love that and her all about her alibaba is the one who tasted them i know that's actually yeah yeah i saw that watch this watch this watch us watch this guys herald is going to come in there's me staring over her all bob pulls out the taser gonna hit him right here in the side boom right there ridiculous i love this scene too this is amazing this is honestly amazing ridiculous all right anyway um so you link to this to this hand right yeah where is it keep going down there's just so much stuff to cover right uh right there okay right here so you post the hand right all right so that's 100 notice how mike's got mike's looking down deep into deep into his uh his dick during the hand the usual dick look so yeah we have the classic dick look going on here for sure so one shot hashtag king i don't think it's actually hashtag bro um anyway so the river action is hand i don't want to i'll save you guys a little bit of time if you want to go through this it is an amazing hand but more or less what happens on the river here is we get to the river the turn matters so apostle check calls flop he check raises the turn and then he bet free bets the river you know i actually think uh that the action is totally fine on the turn the turn both players have good semi-bluff hands so i think it's actually a very reasonable turn check raise i think check raising time with aids is actually just good like i actually think what puzzle doesn't turn here is good okay because it's a semi bluff and you can have straights and two pairs um but what's really interesting on this hand is the river so just cliff notes here guys a couple weak hands t-bone bets the turn here with a double gutter gets check raised by mike with an open ender i think it's actually fine for both of them t-bone call is getting pretty good odds i think this is reasonable for both players the river comes a jack and this is where the hand starts to get very very very unreasonable now apostle decides to fire the river which i think is fine and they put the jesus name up too by the way yeah they just jesus meme you did jesus yeah quick quick quick jesus meme where is this thing it's just it's just so on joey you like can't make this up i know you can't make this up anyway so apostle decides to uh bet the river as a bluff i think that's totally fine t-bone decides to make a very very ambitious raise here you know i'm trying to think about it he does block 64 suited he does block nine eight maybe he doesn't have a spade maybe this is actually one of the better bluff hands maybe this is okay maybe this is okay from t-bone i don't know yeah like lol real poker strategy right now right but then it gets back over to apostle and something about this guy is you just check raised on 10-7-3-5 and then barrel to jack you bet and you get raised and you're like no no no no no no this is a clear all-in but then once he goes all in he also tanks for a very long time which is unusual you'd think that in this spot for this much more if he had the nuts he would just decide well i'm going to get all the guys only have 745 left it's 2.4k why would he not just go all in really quickly that's a great question right um but it could be balancing so he re-raises all in when he goes all in the moment he goes all in the guys in the back say oh oh oh graphics error or another the commentators say oh we had a graphics error he doesn't have h6 he's got nine eight right and they change his cards over to nine eight there's a ton of issues with this a ton of issues just off the top of my head first off that's not how rfid works every card gets an individual code when it's scanned the card shows up so they don't magically change at any point that's not a thing second off and this is a point brought up by ryan feldman the stream is recorded live and aired on 30 minute delay so these graphics would have had to be changed while their cards are face down how do they know that this hand is 9 8 in real time at the table how do they know that right how do they know that and then also if these cards have the wrong rfid it's going to show up like that over the entire session why did it happen in just this hand and not just that the commentator's reaction when they find out i'm going to play that audio really quick here's yours definitely play that that's that's interesting religious man and amen that is [ __ ] bullsh they're wrong again so now i've heard they're wrong three times and this guy had a [ __ ] like [ __ ] this man spots where he just happens to have a situation that's [ __ ] [ __ ] man i'm getting a little [ __ ] pissed off watching this [ __ ] mike is like [ __ ] this man are you [ __ ] serious yeah the graphics are wrong get the [ __ ] out of here man this is [ __ ] [ __ ] if that's what they're trying to say man i'm not even a religious man but we're gonna just drop that is [ __ ] [ __ ] i am a religious man and amen that is [ __ ] bullsh they're wrong again so now i've heard they're wrong three times and this guy had a [ __ ] this is [ __ ] this is [ __ ] [ __ ] this is so sad now they changed eight nine yeah [ __ ] right yeah right uh-huh [Music] not only does my hey it was a little bit earlier this is [ __ ] now mike has it oh how [ __ ] huh [Music] i mean like fangirl for life if this happens it's a value show he has the best hands oh my god he does raise what these guys are so tilting by the [Music] way graphics are wrong oh the graphics are wrong oh the graphics are wrong taylor does he have eight nine don't even tell me the graphics are wrong i'm so much happier yeah the graphics seem to always be wrong right when [ __ ] mike makes a crazy play dude i'm i'm like i'm sorry but i'm getting more and more sketched out by the by some of the commentate commentary right right i'm getting more and more sketched out by this because like the way that they react is just it's just it's just frankly ridiculous anyway uh ryan feldman from the bike had a really good uh a really good post about this and like i hadn't i hadn't thought about it until he tweeted it but feldman said this just occurred to me so i have to speak up shows are produced live and air on delay so basically it's recorded live and then you see it 30 minutes later so the booth can never know that someone's cards are wrong well they would have had someone come in and tell them that they're wrong right i guess so i guess mike would have maybe said something and told him i i don't know how it could work i don't know but unless the players tested later which would be 50 minutes later after it airs how can the graphics person know cards are wrong live this is this this question honestly when i read this it's haunted me sense joey right how can the graphics person know that they're lo how can the guy know in the hand while it's being played that the cards are in fact wrong who who's the guy in the graphics we gotta i i mean we know a name i know i've heard a name but it's not the same guys who was who was doing the graphics that day well i don't know who's doing graphics that day but i i found it i found a link in bio for somebody who looks like he's the person that's in charge of graphics he makes all the memes he's uh he's the it looks like he might be might be a guy involved think about this right how did that happen good question buddy like give me one plausible answer for this can i also point out joey why on earth would they even do this to begin with like let him just like have his h6 and just be like he's a god again why i mean you you we ask these questions logically but clearly nothing that's being shown isn't logical at all so right like to to us it makes sense but know somebody also posted a image on twitter right now showing the times that mike was all in for my investigation it appears he won every one but one he was all in one two three four five six seven eight nine 10 eleven twelve this guy has thirteen times tracked he chopped one time with the five four offsuit versus the ace king ace king he lost one where he was he won that he won that because he right he won that okay yeah and then he won every other one and he was a dog for three of them and he was a favorite the other one so this is just from a small sample size this guy appears to have won all the all-ins except for one dude if that's true this is actually much deeper well it's also important what the equity was like in some of those but if he's not losing any all limbs then he must know what cards are coming yeah oh my god man so maybe in that nine five hand he was just [ __ ] like trolling him basically like oh oh [ __ ] right like me you know who knows like oh yeah maybe like he's trying okay so maybe it was like one of those things where he's trying to pretend he doesn't know what cards are coming and like oh [ __ ] but then he forgot he's not supposed to know that exactly exactly so he makes the other guy sort of think oh [ __ ] like oh he might hit his hand here if you can if some if you could someone could tweet that and like put a link to like the all-in thing that would be great okay so but anyway going back to this like the graphics thing it's just not possible man it's just not possible right and you know feldman also tweeted that this tells me someone working in the booth forced them to change the cards for some reason while producing the hand okay player can never tell booth during the hand once it's produced live you can't change the graphics when it airs poker gfx is pushed through obs live impossible it's not possible it's not it's just not possible this regarding sixteen hand that was mysteriously engaged i work on a broadcast that is produced the same way so i know this is impossible why would someone change the cards with with while the hand is happening huge red flag so if you guys don't know ryan feldman is the guy who's in charge of live at the bike he's in charge of putting on all the uh the great shows that a lot of people out there really enjoy so what do you think about that joey you know i'm i'm going to stop using the background thing worse than i would be black it's fine okay what do you think about that uh which part which aspect of this i mean the the the the cards like so i think there's a few aspects first off like is there any plausible way that that could have happened and not be cheating and then second off why would you do it at all like even like cheating or not why change the cards i don't even understand that i'm trying to i mean they're trying to make us believable we're asking these questions like like there's logical explanations and answers here and and once again right we can we could i can make an argument for everything that we've seen right individual hand by hand basis right this situation oh maybe it just was wrong maybe he did just text somebody and said hey no i had eight nine why'd you no i had that right maybe this is wrong right but are the other ones also are those wrong too so are it's the hand we had eight eighths first 10 10 and check calls the river with the full house but then then he says on twitter when asked about it that he enjoys soft playing his friends sometimes and then we have a screenshot of the guy justin coming into the booth and saying oh no i asked him he actually had seven eight he's good but he's not that good so which like what what can we explain that and then we have another hand so now we have eight four can we explain that now you have nine five we can explain that now wait hold on hold on the chat is saying someone folded the nine of spades what no no go back there's no [ __ ] way that's true go back that happened hold on yeah go back go okay okay hold on we'll get this loaded probably unload it no way no okay let's go back away someone fold the nine of spades stop it right now no one's gonna have the [ __ ] spades do not tell me this guy folded someone fully nice is someone trying to not tell me somebody folded nine of spades okay no i i can't i can't go down not that one that's what he talked about he made it he made a a debatably comment about seeing cards which some people took one way and i definitely take the other way but okay so it's this hand but we need to know we need to know where this hand came from to see if someone folded it yeah i don't have the uh i don't have the the link people are saying okay well we're gonna need someone to tweet the wink at me or yeah i i haven't checked this but if the guy folds the nine of spades um yeah no way i can't believe it sorry guys i'm fired up okay well let's just let the channel the channel get to us i'm positive we should also look and see what happens in the yeah that boat over boat hand um that also obviously very weird very weird to have bought over boat and he just called it over right so whenever someone river calls it crawling up they're trolling okay well they're probably yeah the boat over boat has another hand as well too right it's just another hand in many hands right there's there's just it all adds up there's there's 100 pieces of the puzzle sort of going on here right there's just a lot of questions that that that people have all right so let's let's move in let's talk about the updates okay okay so let's start off with i every time i stop sharing my screen it's right back to sharing my screen okay let's let's uh let's show the hat stuffing okay hats allegedly because this is this is so i made a video yesterday obviously if you guys haven't seen it definitely check that out um but since then a lot of stuff started to come forward including this i i just assumed you retweeted the hat thing did you not no i haven't retweeted the heading it's on her albums page okay there's just so many stories man okay so where is this it's a little further down i think okay so this is this and actually before i even talk about this joey i was like laying in bed before going to sleep last night which by the way you should you should get a little sleep as well um and i was just thinking like if we're gonna have twists and turns like this in this story think about how many more twists and turns there are going to be yeah there could be someone that comes forward there could be more evidence like this there could be footage that shows things happening there's going to be a lawsuit there's already a class action being gathered at the moment there's um there's just so much that can still happen and change and we're going to learn and it's just it's just crazy to see how this all goes down i wonder how it's all going to play out are people going to get money back you know it's like it's a great question okay so this came forward uh because the internet is an amazing place with brilliant people and they show his hat during play and his hat during interviews and you can very clearly see oh that's interesting during play it's like bigger why what is that there's like a bulge that's weird yeah and then they show that then they showed the bone bone can what is it what is it called the bone something hat where you can put you could put an earpiece in there or something like that or speakers or some sort of crazy thing yeah what is in his hat i don't know and then and is this in this interview is this something or like on this third one yeah i don't know maybe it's just the uh uh the lighting maybe it's i don't know who knows his hat like now that you look a little closer at it it almost looks more like a helmet like this padding like aaron rodgers from the nfl when they got they had the the speaker system in the helmets and they they squeeze down on their hat on their hat to be able to hear what someone's saying in it exactly yeah exactly what is in there and like my initial my initial hunch was that someone was feeding it to his phone right because he's always got his phone wedged in between his crotch um they did institute a no phones rule maybe are these pictures from a while ago or they found i think i don't i don't i don't know how recent these are or not but there could be multiple different ways right there could be there it doesn't have to necessarily just be one way of communication these guys are smart about it they probably have multiple different ways set up what device would be in there i i just don't know enough about uh i just don't know enough about i don't know about um about like the the tech with cheating and stuff and like like is it some kind of signal the other the other question that i've wondered this entire time is you know does he have does he have the exact cards or does he just know if he's ahead and my instinct is he has to know the exact cards because um he has to know the exact cards because some of the plays that he decides to make are so specific with the hands and like let me give you an example like the bomb pot where the two guys must flush draws and donk jams the river in that one he he isn't good so it's not like he just has something that tells him he's good he's not good in that hand he has to know that they both have very weak hands right so either he knows their hands or there's someone telling him those hands um headphones i think he's got headphones yeah some people think there's like a bone conduction headphone sort of thing so there's different phone conductions some are bluetooth uh some work other ways but they can be they go inside the lining of the hat and then it could be a speaker or some sort of like that that yeah you can you can hear things i don't know i don't know how it works i've never heard anything like in my life productive headphones right me just in that hand i found it there is no nine of spades folded so whoever said that [ __ ] off they got you is what got me worked up but it's okay you guys now hear what i'm actually excited i thought like that that's a big thing if it was that's true yeah but so what goes into your ear just put bone conduction bone conduction like hat or something like that there you go right that first one right there i see that synapse right up top left there that's the one right there okay so look look it look familiar at all it transmits sound directly to the inner ear through vibration and even this is a thing i didn't know his thing either this is [ __ ] crazy right so like he's wearing this bad boy and someone tells him through his hat what someone has and is that why when he's like pulling at his hat he's like putting it closer so he can hear or what i don't know it could be who knows maybe it's like maybe there's a program because if you look up how these programs work the programs work where they tell you what the cards are so there could be something that reads things and says i don't i don't who knows how to work i have no idea by the way i want to give a quick shout out a couple donations here guys uh from alan nowhere and uh ryan mccormick appreciate that guys uh and i saw some other donations as well but we're trying to keep this uh pretty as on topic as we really can um but i do appreciate those donations um this is weird yeah just just another another thing right this is this is this is quite quite weird so going back to this does this is an under armour hat correct yeah it looks like under my hat yeah but you it doesn't have to be the hat so there's actually a video on twitter or on youtube rather that shows how to how to how to do it how to install it and they have this they have the synapses they have it so you can put it in any sort of hat so you put it in any habits yeah it can go in anyhow you can see like it just has little pieces and it can be sewn in there interesting right yes something is in there and now that you it has to be here for the it to be inner ear right theoretically i guess right have you also seen the the winnings by seat number and seat two is up 140 000 approximately and seat two is where the majority of sessions take place and seat one is the second most i believe why would it be in a specific seat i have no idea i don't know another great question did you like that tweet i could pull it up which one was it tweet about seat number uh no it's on two plus two i don't think i tweeted this out yeah by the way guys if you have not been following along on two plus two uh it's been a truly fascinating read the sleuths the sleuths are out in fours here over on the forums yeah they really are a lot of good information there's a lot a lot of really great contributors that have been messaging me privately and also put posts and things on two plus two they've been doing some good work out there to be honest it's so many posts that it's actually kind of hard oh yeah it's really it's definitely tough to do oh these guys just cry it's it's fabricated they completely fabricated brother yeah completely fabricated i guess like let's go ahead and let's actually pull up someone posted a clip a short clip of justin justin k after apostle scoops a 10k pot listen to his laugh at some viewer commenting that it's like lamb to the slaughter then he goes pretty much yeah but stuff stuff like that is just not it's just not enough really okay so let's see what mike possible has to say about this obviously he's taking a lot of heat has he been deleting tweets you can hear it in the background wow that's crazy i mean you need to make a joke okay let's let's look and see what the guy has to say he's definitely tweeted a lot of things out september 30th was a busy day okay all right this is just too much to go through you've also watched the interview where he uh he gave with justin earlier this year where he broke down a few choice hands as well have you seen that doug have you seen him explain explain his thought process and insight i've i've not seen that but i have heard that it's not exactly what you do exactly at one point he almost says it's not like i can see the cards of court and then stops himself before he says of course i'm like okay would you stop yourself why would you why would you why would you stop yourself in the middle of saying it's not like i can see the cards of i don't know so mike tweets saying there's so much i want to say and now so much that i am forced to say which involves gloating oh my god unreal about my 16-year poker career one that involves me being so successful everywhere i've played jesus including online that i have been accused of having an unfair advantage by a handful of local individuals who convinced someone it was true and to ultimately attack me publicly in the process with nothing but speculation on a tiny fraction of hands that are questionable at best well the hands are questionable at best i've played a unique high variance style of my entire book career and there's hundreds of players i've played with over the course of those 16 years who can verify that i've played the same style both online and live that entire time the difference between myself and others is that i put an enormous amount of time into not just studying the game but in human behavior picking up on betting patterns as well as being blessed with very good instincts i've had no other income other than poker now i trust my baby norwich family just a guy who was blessed with a desire to be the best he could but not forgetting where he is no no he deleted some there's no no that that's not all that he talked about challenge people heads up that that is definitely not all of them he must have deleted some of them garrett hall playing garrett [Laughter] no he deleted some he said that he he if everyone's jealous that he would play him heads up there's got to be more go go there has to be more there's more there's more there's more he just no he deleted him oh man yeah he had more where he challenged people heads up yeah here we go fighting for my daughter and being a single father can definitely change your desires and life perception i think it's really shitty when people bring up their kids in these spots man and really he deleted number six number six is when he called people out and said he would play somewhat challenging i i think it's just such a deleted the worst tweets i agree he definitely yeah i think it's such a scummy move when people do something wrong and then they try to make it about like them and they try to make it about like like you don't know what's going on with me or or especially they make it about like their kids that's just a really [ __ ] low move you know like don't don't even bring the fact you have a daughter into this that's totally totally irrelevant i don't know that also upsets me it's just very unfair to her i will close out with a giant thank you to those who know me and have shown support you've helped dry some tears from the heartbreak of this to which i have no words i shier from positive tension so you can imagine how i feel about the worst tension i could ever imagine i shy from positive attention he says as the hero of the stream stones poker joey he just didn't want the attention man yeah he's too good he was trying to he was trying to fly under the radar playing on stream every week right who knew i actually have the other tweets in a screenshot here can i read them to you doug uh yeah go for it he says being i just think i just want to thank those who actually know me and for not being one of the handful of egotistical competition driven jealous hating ones who have it out for me i apologize for simply being better than you at poker for that local handful i'd love to talk to you man to man to get your thoughts instead of hiding behind a screen or whispering behind my back and we can talk about it or we can play a string of heads up matches off stream if you need it hammered home to you that my abilities go much further than any live stream his abilities yeah his abilities and he's playing some of all the greatest hits of him not cheating here by the way yeah there's one rate he he makes it reluctant fold with uh fourth pair and a three bet pot or the guy goes crazy with seven news wait let's look at this one what is this one so by the way his phone's on the table here notice he's not doing the [ __ ] thing notice he's got somebody talking to him here too oh that's actually a really good point right his whole demeanor his whole demeanor justification make an incorrect fold look what's going on here doug his he's not in the same position he's going where are the keys where are the keys where the keys aren't out there he's got the phone on the table like that this is his example of a time he folded the best hand guys what's different what's different about this situation exactly he's leaning to the side he's talking to this guy on the rail right now exactly he doesn't know the information that's why he probably folds here of course he makes a correct fold he's not locked in he doesn't have it he doesn't have it going it's funny these examples of him not cheating are actually almost examples of them cheating i know let's see what this one is let's look at let's get it deeper here why is it going so slow twitter is happening i guess here's just uh hit a different hit different point and go back to it he posts a whole stream here oh yeah no he it's at the three three something mark he says later in the comments it's a hand where he calls it three about eight six and then ends up folding the river when the guy barrels off with seven deuce all right whatever these aren't loading so i'm not gonna waste my time this is a hand where he led with 1010 most likely because it might have looked suspicious if he just end up check check-folding the 10-10 here wait so getting out of the way of the nuts on the flop here is his example of right of him not not cheating correct yeah so he likes to do this thing where he likes to lead a lead in spots where other people have the nuts he likes to lead small so they raise them making us easily fold so they actually do that in rivers too yeah you're like losing the least you can right and he also likes to do it this thing where you check calls and then donks into you when you have nothing what do you think is the chance that the stones is gonna take down all this footage uh well all of it's archived at this point in time yeah i know you know if you're gonna take the streams down like they're all saved right so they're all out there they're gonna they're gonna go back up i'm sure someone else will post them i think yeah i just i i don't i don't know man does does he get stacked ever he gets stacked on that stream i told you about which one which hand was it it's that it's three hands from yesterday from the first stream i i went over yesterday he gets stacked three times in the in the one that he plays regularly and the one he plays in june he played in june this is when people weren't there that that are some that are regularly there allegedly okay yeah so so when is there any other session he gets stacked other than that session i'm told there may have been one other session where he left early but that's about that's all that's about it i mean that's all i've been reported calvin hobbs says please find the eight nine suited prefab action i think someone was trolling in that one calvin and hobbes yeah i found it it was nothing okay okay all right so this is what uh mike possible had to say um is there anyone else i think we should actually bring up veronica for a little bit uh you know veronica took a lot of heat when she first posted about this uh by the way this tweet this tweet is off topic but absolutely amazing um so mean anyway so i think veronica was the first person to really kind of come forward with this she put together a video that was like uh all this the suspicious hands kind of in a row and um i know she works at stones up until very recently right my understanding is that she hasn't worked there anymore and uh initially you know she took a lot of heat people didn't believe her and i think it's kind of like anything where when you're the first person to say something that something's up i think like the the people kind of like lash out against you and now you know it's looking more and more like she's vindicated that she was correct the entire time right um also hey there's a hand from last night my last candidate session it's where apostle four bets aces the guy has king dew suited he calls the flop is five nine six it goes check check the turn is a five of diamonds brings it back to our flush draw the guy leads possible calls the river is a diamond the guy makes a flush he value bets half pot and possible folds aces last night this is the last hand i went through on my stream last night oh i see okay yeah very very very very very strange controlled it's a it's a brilliant fold yeah it's a brilliant fault okay let's stop sharing the screen for a bit here okay so bringing it back in let's bring this back towards some other stuff so um the first thing i'm like i'm just going to share my screen but let me actually just read this off i think we should do a little less screen share we're doing a lot of it so stones uh initially said that should i just share my screen again it's just you can stream it it works too buddy they can they listen all right there we go this this works okay so i'll just i'll show it to them and all right so stones originally said earlier this year an accusation was made that a player was cheating in our game we conducted a full investigation and found no evidence that any cheating has occurred stone's life platform remains a secure poker streaming platform the recent allegations are clearly fabricated and then stones you know tweeted yesterday or whatever it was stone's gambling and suspending all broadcasts of poker play including live streaming while we expand our multi-faceted investigation with outside experts this investigation will be thorough in detail we will report the outcomes when they are available uh almost hinting that the prior one was not thorough so the questions i think that kind of arise with this are first off who's doing the investigation yes uh because i think that's going to be a really important a really important part of this i think that they certainly need to have an unbiased third party doing this investigation uh can i can i can i read some questions i actually posted on stones for them real quick sure go for it i gave them some questions they can ask they can investigate right and here you go doug i said please don't let this be the same team that investigated the last allegations they might be the worst investigation team in the history of investigations for finding zero evidence i found greater than zero percent possible evidence in 20 minutes with a bottle of water in my laptop i said here are some questions to ask who is who is investigating it how are they doing it are they checking records of the former investigators do they understand poker are they checking the records of those involved with access they're checking security cameras what about the connection with mike's and others after they watch every second security cameras covering every possible interaction to find common patterns linking people together are they checking who worked when are they checking mike's entire pattern of behavior on every stream are they checking the phones in retrospect do they conclude no possible no possible way of anything happening and make an announcement about it before doing all this are they checking mike's entire behavior in the casino are they rechecking the last investigators are they linking casino patrons employees together with mike in as many many ways as they can are they asking everyone involved with the operation what they saw took place are they reviewing all equipment involved that i just think i came up with that in about five three minutes i came up with those questions that to maybe take a look at those are all certainly certainly good points i mean and there's probably more it's gonna get kind of weird now though i think because there there are very likely going to be legal ramifications here and so that means that i almost question if stones can even really investigate this themselves right because if they found cheating aren't they liable to some extent now i'm not an attorney but if your casino and your show that you own was cheating people out of money are you not liable right if these are people that work for the casino or can they can they just go after those people individually i don't know man right someone said who wrote the new rfid table yeah who who built the rfid tables i mean i know you can change those along the way anyway but it's a great question as well too conor hughes joins five dollars said doug i called the california gaming board and they transferred me to an agent with the doj and you know what he did joey he said that this was better he said no that would have been um not very uh appropriate for the moment um they said they were investigating and he told them about your streams so they're going to be looking into your streams hopefully oh my god they're gonna fairness they're gonna they're gonna be going crazy they're gonna yeah and we all know poker players love the doj they have a great relationship with those guys yeah shout out to shout outs to the doj for sure man um so anyway uh you know how how how in-depth of a of a job can stones do here like i think there's got to be at least some legal ramification and then another thing i thought was really interesting when we're talking about the legal side of this a little bit more um when you think about the the victims of this and you think about what would happen to mike imagine this what would happen to mike if he scammed the casino that's a good question i think i think that um if they ruled that it was something like edge sorting they would just have to pay the money back so i don't know i there weren't any criminal charges in the whole entire iv situation that went down with the with that yeah everything is yeah but that one's that one's different though ivy wasn't doing ivy wasn't using like hardware to like cheat right that's true he was asking the casino and the casino approved yeah it's a little different that's a little bit different i agree um regardless though i think that if this was if this was the casino losing money apostle is going to every sent back and and very likely could go to jail i think wow but because it's people because other people i don't know now it's it's tougher to say uh and i think i think actually we do too much product protecting these like corporations and casinos and stuff in america versus like protecting the individual people um i think that uh these people should be owed their money back i also think that there should be some nuance which is if a player came onto the show and broke even but lost three thousand dollars to mike that that that should be worth something right right so you so you think that the casino should pay back these players the money that they've lost or this guy i think that every dollar mike won in the show should be paid back i think that's what should happen yeah that seemed that's that would seem reasonable right i mean you could argue like ah man there's like even like you know butterfly effect things like if mike wasn't there and like if mike wasn't in some of these hands what would have happened to people and like um but i think some of that stuff just gets a little complex i think that every dollar mike one on the show should be paid back to all the players and and i mean what else is fair mm-hmm i don't know man it's i i've never heard of something like this happening where a player has debatably allegedly super using access to cars or i just never heard of this happening i don't know what's there been other i think there's been other cases where something like this has gone down but i don't know if they could track the winnings and track those type of things like that whereas here it's clearly tracked over time so it's a different scenario where it's all on video i mean it's very brazen very in your face very very daring now you got to be you got to be a special kind of person to be able to want to pull this off man so mack verstandig i'm possibly mispronouncing that last name um i want to say he was also in the game where mike had that big losing day he was in that he was in the eighth seat during that session this guy that you're going to talk about right now interesting well anyway he's an attorney um he's a partner at a law firm and he essentially tweeted out yesterday saying that regarding the stone's life poker situation his law firm and i have been engaged to bring suit to address these wrongs on behalf of victimized players if you played on a stream and would be willing to discuss your experience please dm me we look forward to pursuing our case in court so if you have been wronged or you played in these games or information it could be worth reaching out to uh mack and taking it from there uh this i mean this is like this is seems like it's going to go to court i don't know we'll see yeah we'll see it's it's a crazy one man it's like crazy right uh let's go through some field of things here um we went through justin being in vegas timing oh i do think an interesting part of this will be the uh the involvement of other people and who was in on it or knew right um and and i do think that there could be a situation where people try and avoid uh you know jail time for themselves or trouble for themselves they route other people i think it will be interesting to see over time who comes forward and who else was involved right um also someone mentioned the lincoln sync so obviously we've seen that mike is now willing to delete certain things but what i noticed right away the first day this broke i i found out the linkedin page for mike he had two of them one was for uh the dream poker tour show and one was for a company called apostle consulting and what i was told was possible consulting may have worked with stones in some sort of capacity but those were both deleted right when this started to really pick up some steam so i found that a little interesting like why i mean why would you delete your linkedin page that has these past i don't know you know just didn't make much sense to me so i did i did find that as well we have screenshots of those things too one thing and i do like to defend people when i think that it can be appropriate obviously it's suspicious you deleted it but i think one thing people will do sometimes when mobs are against them guilty or not is they'll delete their social accounts because they don't want to get attacked right um but he didn't delete his twitter so i don't exactly know where that's going right knows just another thing another question right it was throwing that out there there's just more more things more things you wonder about i talked with him in the dm's as well too he said he's innocent he said he didn't do it he has explanation for different things like that so i don't know man it's uh yeah that's where we're kind of at with things right now it's still still in the uh now we have stones allegedly investigating so what do you think about the people that like because they're still like a small but but they are contingent of people who seem to think mike is innocent uh none of those people think he's innocent after they start watching some of my videos so there may be like three or four apostle supporters and i don't think they've actually watched any of my streams so if you watch my stream there's no chance that you can't think something is going on here you can at least be open-minded to it and if you're not open-minded to it then then clearly you're not thinking about that you're just it's just there's no reasoning with you right so if you support them and you're friends with them and you ride with them and that's what it is then you know that's what it is but i highly doubt that anyone who anybody who doesn't know him can watch the hands and say yeah and i think that's tough for people because like you know it's tough when you know someone or you're friends with someone or um you know you've defended someone and i think that there are a good number of people who knew mike and dottie was just like a nice guy or whatever and then you know hung out with mike or talk with mike and then this stuff comes forward and i think people oftentimes struggle when they're forced to kind of challenge their own concepts of who people are and what they are and that's why a lot of times when when someone does something there are all these people that you know even the evidence is clear they're like oh he wouldn't do that like you know you see that like in court like you're arguing but like oh i just he's just not that kind of guy but the thing is like you don't know what situations people get put in you don't know you know maybe he became really desperate for money maybe um you know maybe he had addictions to something maybe obviously obviously i'm not justifying that joey i'm i'm a huge proponent of um taking responsibility for yourself but you know if you if you're like man how could my judge of character be so off well maybe something happened that changed it or maybe you were just wrong like sometimes sometimes you know you might you know i would say when you meet somebody within the first few few minutes or maybe 10 seconds you have a good idea of what they're about but sometimes your reads are off and when that happens like it's important to to be able to fairly assess what's happened from there so maybe mike was a nice guy before maybe you know i i i don't know it's just like it's tough it's got to be tough for people that knew mike or no mike and then they see this happen and they might want to defend him and and i think um i think it's tough to to to re-question your notion of who people are right i agree i mean it plus if you don't understand poker and it just looks like everyone's ganging up on this guy who you think is some poker genius or something like that because he's told you and i keep hearing people their argument is like this guy wins big in other rooms he's a crusher i haven't i don't i don't recall anyone coming out at any point in time saying this guy's crusher i hear people saying yeah he used to win at online poker back in 2006. but i where are the people who this guy's been crushing like yeah i don't understand because also people say oh he's not he loses big hands off stream well he doesn't lose big hands in the show so if he's losing his big hands off stream playing the same exact style why is he not having those same results on the show on a consistent basis if he has those results off stream with you on a consistent basis that's the point so when people defend him and they say this they're actually making an argument for why something might be out of line because well why wouldn't that be happening on the stream with him another another really important point you know there's so many important points but another really important one is if this guy is the sickest crusher ever and he's just gloating about how [ __ ] good he is like you know why crush i'm just that [ __ ] good why is he playing one three i don't know why why wouldn't he be playing like joey i imagine imagine you spent 15 years just [ __ ] crushing yeah suck on this [ __ ] i'm the [ __ ] [ __ ] i wake up in the morning and i smell profit that's how it works i sit down and aura envelops me in the table and i'm like [ __ ] the money's coming in here and then after 15 years of this soul-crushing destruction of you just dropping the [ __ ] hammer on these noobs you're playing one three i don't know does that does that like is there any like why would anybody play more what world what world does that happen in i don't know why wouldn't you play more what world like i mean why would you ever play that low like if i if i was that good you know and luckily i'd never have been but if i was that good at poker why would i waste my goddamn time on you at 1 3 or 2 5 or 5 10. but remember he doesn't want to be famous or well known too so right which is why would you play on stream right if you were crushing for 10 years just hammering people right why would you even get out of bed to play 510 how can you even get your dick hard to play 2-5 you're too busy crushing people i don't know that these are these are actually really great questions brother i don't know i mean does that not make does that isn't that just kind of wtf it is like for your defense to be i'm that good why are you here i don't know you're the sickest crusher of all time who wants to stay under the radar that's what he's saying so numerous times right so your response is to play one three on a stream every week or two five guys i don't want to be a firefighter i think it's in stones right why he also plays like 60 live tournaments at stones and stuff probably just taking a break from all the crushing no no so some of his friends have said he's a tournament crusher so i went through the results and he plays a a lot of hundred to three hundred dollar buy-ins and uh i don't see many wins in these tournaments so i i i i'm just like where's the crushing i i love for him to be a crusher where is the crushing well i see where the crushing's at it's on the stream so now we look at his crushing okay we now you got the receipt let's take a look deeper and now we see some things that are a little abnormal right and people say oh what about tom dwan what about garrett adelstein they play like this too no they don't do these same things and they lose plenty of pots as well so even though tom dwan didn't lose pots for a long time but no these guys have a much different place when when garrett soul reads somebody which has been happening a lot lately on the bike i gotta say but when garrett soul reads somebody huh he plays the hand normal like he raises a lot pre-flop when he plays because he's good he three bets a lot he you know what i'm saying like he re-raises a lot okay i actually won and then post flop he plays reasonable and then when he when he owns somebody it's just like he's right in the fence he's really not sure and he makes like a good decision at the end with no sketchiness hey garrett also a very regular player in high stakes games outside of the stream and right yeah i know where you play matters we've even discussed that right if you're just that good you're just [ __ ] stomping it at the at stones whoo too good too hot why wouldn't you take a little bit of that hotness down and take a swing at the bike dip on down down to vegas and check out poker after dark heat things up a little bit well he might not be able to play in those places i don't know well not anymore i don't know also one thing i found interesting was that mike told me that these allegations aren't true because i know they're not and i had no idea until yesterday that stones was actively investigating the complaints made by the local players where both myself and the entire team and the stream and system were looked into so now i'm gonna find this incredibly hard to believe that mike who's friends with people on the team and also friends with justin justin says he's his good friend i am going to find this incredibly hard to believe that this investigation went down months ago and mike just found out yesterday as of monday this week that according to him he just found out that things were being investigated when these things allegedly went down months ago and this was commonly talked about amongst people that this was happening so does that not does that seem does that seem normal to you or does that make does that not make much sense does it not seem normal to me that he just now is finding out i mean that seems weird i'm not mike i can't say when he did or didn't find out but right certainly seems suspicious i i find that i find that hard to believe yes i do just another just another thing on the i mean this was i hear this is actively being talked about people are mentioning this people are hinting at this so i can't imagine this would be something that would end up being a secret somehow so joey what are what are your plans here in terms of the coverage going forward because i want to keep all the good people of youtube by the way i appreciate you guys tuning in today if you liked today's video hit that thumbs up button i do appreciate you guys stopping by where can i work that like button where where can you think if you think possible is one of the biggest winners of all time at one two and five five for a one year time period please smash that like button right now whatever all right so so am i doing from here what are you doing from here yeah all right so i'm deciding that right now i think maybe i'll put up some sort of uh video tomorrow potentially maybe we do another live stream tonight we got a lot more sessions listen the hidden possible sessions are out there and i'm dedicated to watching every hand that mike possible has played on stones live from front to back i am dedicating my time to watching every single stream hand that mike possible has been a part of and uh you know what man you can't do that by sitting on the sidelines you got to get in the mix you got to get in the ring you got to box a little bit so i know i'm going to do that uh are me and you are we going to do the session on saturday where we watch the creation i think i'm gonna i think i'm gonna let you tackle that one i'm telling bro i'm telling you i'm i'm i'm scared i guarantee you this will be the best couple of hours you spend i promise you doug i'm not exaggerating i i had a i saw the holy ghost during this session doug i was enlightened i don't want to see the holy ghost you just have to watch it just trust me i i want to let you down on this one i i promise you you have to watch this session you have to see it we'll talk it over but you are going to do more streams so if you guys want an in-depth hand by hand breakdown joey's going to continue his 79 hour session you can tune in to see all 163 hours of mike which the way joey's going will be done by sunday um also if you guys want to see what joey is talking about on twitter joe ingram uh jongram one yep uh you can follow him over there tons of great stuff you can follow all the latest happenings there's gonna be more twists and turns of course uh right here on this channel i recorded a couple episodes of poker hands but maybe you should consider calling it possible hands because they're about mike possible and uh some of the decisions he made so if you want to see some some more uh really amazing decision making as well as breaking it down you can check it out right there uh and then also of course you can follow me over to our doug poker i've been tweeting about a lot of this stuff too um but the main thing is guys just um you know i kind of wanted to close this video on a somber note but an important one which is poker has many people trying to take your money you have to deal with casinos upping the rake you have to deal with you have to deal with players trying to beat you you have to deal with shady games you have to deal with all kinds of things you know everyone's always trying to make money after you travel by poker all everything is expensive because you know you're there in the hotels and every there's so many sub businesses trying to make money off of you that you have to be not just a great player but you also have to be a sharp player with the situations that you put yourself into and if you look at the way the numbers add up uh if there's even a one percent chance that you're not getting a fair shake in a game and you're being cheated you just can't play you cannot play because edges are so small that if you're being cheated you can't take that risk when you're cheated you automatically lose and you lose a lot and the average just it weighs you down so so much you simply can't play in those games so my advice would be even in situations where things look legit always be skeptical always have an awareness about who's around you and who can you trust don't let people have access to your money or information that's important and and be careful guys like poker is gambling there's still a wild west element to a lot of this and there's always going to be instances where people are cheating even if in the one in a million chance that possible's innocent here well there's the world tourist poker card marking thing right or there's the online poker super using thing right or this thing that happened to me where the guy hacked my computer and like could see my screen or there's so many other instances where this did happen for sure and also almost certainly happened here so the point is this you got to be careful and watch your back and it's better to be skeptical uh and protect yourself from something that didn't happen than it is to be trusting and not protect yourself from something that did happen anyway that's that's the last note here guys you know where to follow us joey i want to say thanks for joining us today uh for the thorough update and investigation thank you sir i i appreciate you having me on you guys want to see more of the hands is over my youtube channel we went down listen one and two are wild it's insane i lose my mind number three a different side of the possible later the first session and i think i'm probably want to have on veronica as well too the whistleblower as well i want to talk with her as well and uh shameless plug i got the john robert belong video podcast next thursday maybe we'll ask him about this maybe he's been maybe seen some modeling things and games and then uh phil ivey investigation in the baccarat scandal coming up next week too that's one of my greatest videos of all time so i'm excited very excited about that all right awesome okay so you guys know what's going on what does that mean what does that mean what was that like awesome what's that i'm transitioning okay great having you guys today thank you once again leave a comment below and i'll see you guys soon

Channel: Doug Polk Poker

Views: 567,265

Keywords: Cheating, Poker, Mike Postle, Investigation, scam, scandal

Id: VuBerIx8e1M

Length: 120min 22sec (7222 seconds)

Published: Thu Oct 03 2019