Navy Seal to Zen Warrior - Developing Mental Toughness & An Unbeatable Mind w/ Mark Divine

hey this is Mark Devine I'm the founder of seal fit and unbilled mind and author of the way of the seal and unreal mind and the upcoming book staring down the wolf you're listening to ever forward podcast and today chase and I talk about the big four skills of mental toughness how it helped me dominate Navy SEAL training how is helping vets recover from post-traumatic stress and how it can help you perform at your peak whoo yah see on the other forward podcast [Music] don't need anything again until about 11:00 the next day now why I'm most curious why people do fasting the - it's you know my experience is it keeps me in a metabolic flexibility and ketosis okay so and I won't do that like a hundred percent of time there's a few days we're all just gonna bust it on purpose you know to keep the system on you know yeah on standby like not knowing exactly you know what the routine is going to be right i starving am I good things good I think for the body and training in general so what it's led to is I eat a lot less a lot less calories than I used to and don't get hungry at all mmm right I just maintain a nice kind of steady state I feel like I'm more of a diesel engine when I cruise and then if I need to ramp things up I'll just you know pump in some carbohydrates and yeah right and so that that's how I got started and then I thought reading a little bit about the longevity benefits of longer fast yes you know every action kicked me off I was coming Barratt not embarrassed but challenged by a SEAL team buddy of mine who did a 30-day water-only fast 30 days like not just like sunup to sundown kind of thing he just agent any food for 30 days just drink water and I was thinking you know if you can do 30 days at least I can do 36 I would hope so yeah so um I decided that you know just give it a try a couple times and I felt really really good you know the hardest part is really just you know the craving window of like 5 to 7 p.m. on the first day so I'll do it as if I was intermittent fasting but then I'll just push it a whole nother day you know I mean yeah the longer term fasting like I said has been really intriguing to me when I have tried intermittent fasting I'll go at most like 18 hours and by then I agree it's I'm not really hungry and my issue with it is why I can't really be it here and with it it's because it actually I get so far into the day I don't have time to eat or I like oh like oh [ __ ] I got a four hour window between no dinner hanging out with my wife or working out and I've got to cram down like 2,500 3,000 calories whatever and then it messes up my sleep I'm not the kind of guy who can just slam calories and then go right to bed so I always found training plan is exactly I mean if I was doing heavy lifting like he used to you know you really just need to get the protein you need you know the constant if you like but my training right now is I do a ton of yoga Aikido and then I do kind of mostly body weight like crossfit style wads okay and I'd lift maybe twice a week you know just gotta like deadlift benchpress just to keep some systemic strength going so get all the core compound moves yeah I don't really need to you know go to ours like I used to you know doing the heavy cranking away seal fit type workouts I'm convinced that's kind of the natural trajectory of strength trainers long-term right I got to build the foundation exactly at the time and help the foundation I'd say I'm about 13 14 years into my fitness right form of myself I can actively training you know that's a good question I still reflecting on that trying to figure out what the hell is that doing with my life first but I've been training since probably 15 yeah and I'm 55 so that means I'm 40 years yes so I mean that definitely tells me you're the fitness career that's the truth you know it's because I found I still love the compound lives and I still love lifting heavy weight and you know for me it's kind of more of a like a ability look it's still what I can do a lot of prior injuries but now it's much more ability body wake you know low intensity walking long term walking Yoga has become a crux of my training and you're right yeah it really does once you kind of I think shift into that it's season to train for directions for life you know then your training plan shift and then if you're going to do something special like I'm climbing Mount Rainier next week so I've added you know casual box step ups with sandbags and weighted rocks and stuff like that are you familiar with a Bataan Death March yes I actually was training for that this year and about month two in I found out I melanoma runs my family and I'd had this big chunk cut out of my back and I was like oh no if the next two months you can't do anything definitely can't wear a weighted pack that we can't do this sunburn you have right now yeah I have a follow-up my dermatologist and she's Malay chase what the hell come on like we literally just chunked out your skin yeah I have an interesting story this is actually really formative for me but um when I was 17 I I popped a hernia mm-hmm and injured my back simultaneously they're trying to lift this huge log on a wood splitter and go to the hospital right for the hernia operation and as the doctor put me under it you know that put me down with the deads whatever they were back then I said to him I said hey would you have the surgeon take a look at this thing on my leg there's this growth that it popped up in my leg like a pencil eraser fun I was like this you know doesn't look normal and so they did at any rate I was healing up real quickly from the hernia mm-hmm now already walking around and all of a sudden pretty serious like a doctor comes in with my parents and they sit down they said you know we got to talk to you yeah right you know that's the best the best conversation when I was horrible and they're like yeah you've got melanoma cancer stage 4 we want to immediately operate to remove your lymph nodes yeah who doesn't spread any further and I had one of those like hits like this is wrong the only man my intuition just said no it's not that's not right I would have known something right I would have some signal I think and so I said I disagree with that and I'm you know I don't want you to do surgery and to my parents credit they said okay well let's get some second opinions sure yeah and they did take a huge chunk out you can see the cigar still here yeah yeah it looks right up the alley it's one of my back here yeah right yeah they go deep from the live inches long and five millimeters deep pretty gnarly Pleasant yeah so they um it actually turned out to be a false you know flex when the the results came back from the different you know like Tulane University Mass General a couple others they sent it out to one was inconclusive one said definitely no one said probably and then what to work to said no one was inconclusive once it was probably moment so we went with the nose yeah I'll take that prognosis thank you very much in fact on me because what they didn't tell me but they told my parents was that I probably had six months left on this planet and my parents never told me that and I was thinking I'm feeling like a million bucks right and but I go home to my little small town in upstate New York and all of a sudden you know everyone's starting to come over to treatment talking to me you literally ignore me my whole life hey we should hang out it's very strange period of my life but intuition has been something the more and more I've gotten into your content your writings and doing my homework so to speak intuition has really stood out to me as something that from a pretty early age has been maybe not like very well developed but it's been there like much sooner than I can think back to my late teens and 20s you know hearing your backstory at Wally I've been start thinking mother [ __ ] tells in my late 20s and early 30s now which this part of you I love is where you were kind of walking walking home one day took a different route and you saw this this poster meta recruiters office and you didn't know what you were looking at but you're staring at a Navy SEAL and you know serve your country and all this cool cool stuff and like you were just like yes that's what I'm supposed to do right can you walk us through what's it like what's it like seeing something like that and you just have this intuition that like wow my life is about to change and this is what I'm supposed to do yeah it's not easy to really answer because the you know it's really an experience right that's sometimes beyond words I think the reason there's two reasons that I was like tuned into my intuition if you could call it that one is you know growing up in the 60s and 70s in upstate New York going on your town was like three under three people in my little town I grew up in a small town yeah it was I mean I never really thought much about it of course we spent a ton of time outside and a lot of that time especially in the summertime you know we were up in the Adirondacks we had a summer house on Lake Placid a lot of time was alone you know just hanging out just exploring the wilderness and and a lot of time in and on under the water that's how I became a really good swimmer and I was very comfortable with silence right and you know now they're like there's a lot of research yeah how valuable silence is and you know we're all trying to get to silence yeah and finding stillness and everything's all cluttered up and you know everyone's distracted with endless social media and distractions back then there were no distractions and so my mind was really kind of calm and able to hear or sense or feel you know the messages of the of the body or the mind or the spirit actually so that was one number one and number two was when I was 21 I walked into a martial arts studio and I you know wanting to study at martial art and I met as n master I almost masquerading as a martial arts tree was a fantastic martial arts teacher but his primary interest was Zen and developed cultivating you know character and so he's one of those real traditional Japanese martial artists and what age was this about for me I was a twenty-one 21 okay yeah so I just graduate from college moved to New York City you know I was going to be a CPA yeah an MBA I've got my MBA at NYU and I was gonna be as sort of a public accountant and I thought that was the path I was gonna go either into finance and make a ton of money or go back to the family business but Zen's dad else more right so I started said no 21 year old ever right I started training in Zen and I you know the training was a little bit before and after every class and I took class six days a week but then long sessions on Thursday evening and I really enjoyed it it reminded me a lot of being in nature and just the calmness I really yeah able to control my mind and I started to really develop a deep concentrated practice and then through that I started to find myself dropping into you know like the non-dual state without even having a clue what that was and when I was in those moments of just like pure presence I would get like insights and the insight would show up just as like an image not a visualization which is something you've construct right or there's just like an image it's very soft image it's like a subconscious manifesting sort of like there wasn't often a memory it was just something that was there for me like a maybe a future image or something like that and then also I would get I could I learned that I could pose a question to myself before the meditation and I would often get an answer or I'd feel be able to feel into it would you call that setting and intention or you could say I mean you could use it like setting an intention I was using it for um clarity okay get some sense around what my life was really meant to be life because you know here I was basically following a path that was preordained for me for the most part to be in business and cultivate the pedigrees to be either you know financially successful or to go back to the family business and yeah for the listeners your family business was generations and generations yes 100 years deep was something that was yeah you said just kind of expect it right this is gonna go in to recall that in my training we call that your your background of obvious Ness I like that right so it's the part of you that is just so prevalent yeah it's baked into you that you can't even see it but it's obvious to other people that's the part of life I think it's what we think we're supposed to do right right or what others think we're supposed to do that kind of obviousness comes in many forms even the language you know that we grew up with and that becomes your a framework or structure a mental model for how you see the world because certain one language is gonna you know have a certain structures different than another language so if you if you think Chinese you're gonna see the world differently yeah then if you think in English invite you so that's an example back on the obvious yes and and the family you grow up with that has its norms and standards and its expectations yeah and its language then also can become your background Bobby so you oftentimes an individual rule will rebel against that and not realizing that they're playing into a pattern you know or they just kind of like are you dead right so I basically adopted it without recognizing it that was what was going to do but it wasn't that fulfilling for me and so I started to question whether that story was you know kind of a false story for me and so it was those questions that questioning that I noted when I was thinking and pondering it before meditation that I would get some really interesting answers and I began to sense that you know I was a misfit you know I love that word I that's such a true definition you know we think misfit me think you know troublemaker you know outlaw or whatever but when you think about the definition it's you know I've been miss fitted into this if that's even put a square peg in around the whole kind of thing so then you know I think this is the whole poster thing is a different thing than intuition so that's really more like the universe starting to align when you get aligned internally you know things start to shift for you externally yeah and so always lining up with where I was meant to be you know in and so the the intuitive insight and instinctual drive that I was experiencing was to be a warrior and to be a leader and to do it in one of the hardest most challenging ways possible without knowing exactly what form that would take like my intuition didn't come and say hey you're meant to be a Navy SEAL it just said you know this is wrong what you're doing and when I asked the question if not this then what I started to get information that said you know you need to be a leader in you know risky dangerous a gnarly situation is hard challenge yourself you know what I mean go challenge yourself and so I started to think well what could that look like and it's when I started to ask that question that I literally was walking home one night and I passed the Nev recruiters office and there was that poster in there and the first thing I caught my eye was the title and the title was be someone special and it was a recruiting poster for the seals but and say anything about Navy SEALs on and just had the imagery of doing seal stuff first clickbait it was special like that was a great title when you saw that did you think at that time you weren't special because I think first for sure yeah that was another part of the boo you know the background of obviousness was you know we all have conditioning or shadow aspects and in my house you know we were probably a typical dysfunctional family right a lot of anger for my father and you know alcohol that we ran back generations and so you know the nurturing that a child needs in the first seven years is you know it's absolute it's unconditional and any absence of that is going to create some sort of sense of unworthiness or on wholeness mm-hmm right and this is not like I'm rare for having this issue like it is Universal almost always especially in the modern world so I had that and so I I compensate it right by trying to be a hyper overachiever you know degrees and this and that and I mean that that still goes on to this day so it's not easy to erase this stuff right right right exactly and so I think part of me was inspired to think that I could be special yeah you know of course now I realize that everyone's special you know but that sounds platitude in this right yeah point is to find it inside of you find it and then go live it or else you're never gonna be happy you're never gonna have the contentment in the peace of mind that people deserve if you're if you're following someone else's dream right or even if you're not following someone else's dream if you're living a story that is flawed that's not your story yeah and you're not in alignment with it meaning you not fulfilling your purpose or your calling then you know that's where the proverbial midlife crisis I'm shit-faced I agree you have a lot of clients probably your experience in that I do too yeah absolutely when it comes down to one of the initial reasons why I think a lot of people seek to become better or they usually start with the fitness aspect right the the exterior just I'll [ __ ] together right exactly fine yeah but the better mate or a better job yeah Fitness is never the thing weight loss is never there with the why right like simon Sinek says absolutely and that's one of the things stood out to me so much in your story was that in your early 20s in this work that you were doing on the self the inner self was first and then became you know the the strength you know that next earier self development one that everybody kind of naturally gravitates towards and that's joining the military not just a military one of the most elite Special Operations Group in the world the Navy SEALs and where I think we kind of you know similar aspects of our story is you know I was in the military as well like I told you and for me it's been in Reverse so I started off just you know the same grew up in a small town playing in the mountains you know a lot of solitude a lot of just you know time with Southwest Virginia Roanoke Virginia my parents my grandparents we had almost 200 acres just in the mountains playing in the creeks and building forts and my dad you know he was here he was gone he was in military activity for a while and so for me which is kind of like the natural next step of you know family service I loved being physically active let me just you know go do that it's honorable kind of thing and then all that initial work of the military and then getting into health and wellness and things like that where I am right now like we're talking about earlier you know my kind of season of fitness has become a lot more of looking internally the mindset development the inner self work and I'm just really curious how how someone with your background of Zen and the intuitiveness and just asking these smart questions of why why why what was your experience like going from that starting into the military because I didn't hit that point until years later and I've heard your back story of how well you succeeded in buds you were top year I forget the title top your class yeah we had 185 start my class 19 graduated and I was number one but also even more important or more impressive to me was that my entire boat crew graduated with me oh that's amazing and so that they're all heirs that by the way I don't think it's ever happened yeah that's pretty much so I you know we we really took care of each other and that was part of the most powerful leadership lessons for me was that you know as the officer I was in charge of these six other enlisted guys and we said this is you know we're in this together right everyone's going to be you know backstabbing each other because they want us they want to earn the Trident but you know every one of us should be here we'll be stronger right if we take care of each other and watch each other's back we got secured from hell week early oh wow dominated Wow and then we graduated together so that was kind of cool to answer your question specifically I feel very blessed because you know the being a competitive swimmer and I had a really kind of forward-thinking swim coach at Colgate University who taught me visualization for sports performances like in that mid 80s I had one class on that in an undergrad just here was president is pretty impressive right and so we he taught me how to visualize and I had great success with that and and then through the Zen training I learned the power of controlling the breath right to control my physiology and to learn how to concentrate right that's a big aspect of Zen is concentration and another aspect of Zen or any meditation is presence mmm right so only got to concentrate on a task for a long period of time undistracted whoa and then to be able to be very present when you're with another human being or with your team and through also through the process of training for us to become a seal I developed a mantra you know like a saying right as soon as the sayings that I wanted to you know just kind of keep myself in the game and positively motivated and so and then I was very very committed to this once I learned you know once my intuition kind of hit me over the head and said this is it then it became like a no-fail thing I was going to be a Navy SEAL 100% so I'm like because I'm the boy I was trying to burn the boat kind of commitment so when you put all this together these are like the four dominant skills that I teach this attack on the big four yeah I already had a strong foundation in breath control breath control is a first skill the big four because that's what gets you in control of what's going on so that you don't have you become non reactionary you become you know in charge the amount of choices that have become easier in my life now by just integrating that practices which is very hard but so many times now I'm just like alright just take a breath take a breath yeah the seals we say pause yeah breathe yeah think and then act yeah so of the four steps three of them are non action yeah and it takes what maybe a second yeah if you know once you train it you know yeah and activate this very quickly so I had the breath control down I had the second the second skill is really developing control over the quality the quantity and the directionality of your thinking mind okay and so what's baked into that statement is developing the capacity to concentrate on one thing for a long period of time to develop the ability to interdict and redirect every time your mind wanders to the wrong thing and to do it with high quality of thoughts and positive important things as opposed to negative or just [ __ ] things and too many toys yeah it's too many people you know their minds are all just scattered and they're negative and they're thinking about the wrong things and that's why they wonder what you know they don't get the results they want it's because two-thirds of the day their mind is you know spinning around either in a negative state or thinking about the wrong things and so I I had learned that already without being able to articulate it again this is these were just kind of skills that I had cultivated through many hours in the Zen bench and and you know also in the pool as a swimmer then the third skill is visualization I've already talked about that but the sports visualization was is one skill but learning how to visualize for what you know maybe a New Age person called manifestation sure yeah is a whole other thing and that's what I was using it for so I took the skill and I flipped it and I'm going to visualize myself going through SEAL training and graduating on a specific future date and I practiced that every day so I had that skill gone for me Wow and then the fourth skill is what we call micro goals you know chunking things down to the smallest component part that's going to be linked to the larger string of victories you know to get to somebody Mount Ranier it's not just bottle toss notes all these little micro goes along the way one step at a time to so those skills we teach today and on Bill mind program and they all come really stem from my experience leading up to and going through SEAL training when I got to SEAL training because there was so much pressure put on us immediately and every day was just this massive performance event you know that lasted for 16 hours we did that for nine months boot camp was bad I had to show up everyday using those skills and I was like holy crap these are really important especially when the pressures on they can also be used as a practice for evolution hmm all right that's cool so most people think even the seals now are bringing some of the unbilled mind tools into their training and as they've been there in little pieces but not in a coordinated fashion and they haven't really been taught like you said there was a PowerPoint presentation when I got the buzz and they've been doing that for years said here here's you know some things you can do that it will help you arousal control the tension control micro goals you know check that off the list you know charge me happy we taught it whatever I need to run fast because I need to swim fast and does not get shot right do everything I can to get the Trident in the neck yeah and so now you can use these skills or starting to use these skills to teach them as a practice so that they're become part of your very character part of your very being because when the ball is fly you can't you don't have time to be telling your teammates hey slow down your breathing and manifest not being shot visualize I know visualize the win it's got to all be there for you I think that's so amazing what you're doing now it nots kind of jumped the storyline too much but while we're talking about it the work you're doing now outside of the military to help the military currently and new people coming in most of our work is just with you know professionally yeah anybody seeking to kind of like I want that right you know kind of thing I think it's so necessary and I was listening to an interview of yours recently on the way down and it made me think about I wonder if the military would ever consider developing an MOS of visualization specialists or you know maybe but not for long manifestation you know I think would be so it's gonna be awhile it's definitely a little woowoo for the military but I mean I remember when I was getting out they were integrating practices you know I was in my last unit I was in was a med hold you know I got injured and got separated and they were instead of just like chucking narcotic pain pills at people which they definitely still were doing they began to integrate acupuncture and also pressure and all of these you know dry sauna therapy massage therapy and all these things then I was like I was just beginning to study on my own wow that's really cool they're actually implementing this so that that was hell I actually this what's today's date July 29th this is uh I [ __ ] you not today is my ten-year anniversary no kidding of getting out of military so 2009 I started seal fit in 2007 Wow and I immediately you know not immediately but about a year after I started seal fit I launched these 30 day academies and they're my idea was like literally Shaolin Monastery for the Western Western man and we had initial class of for people like charged him $3,000 each I fed them and they slept at my training center and we trained from 6:00 in the morning to like 10:00 at night most of nights around the clock for 30 days I gave him one Sunday off mhm we did self-defense we did not like unbelievable amount of teamwork team building leadership development all the strength and conditioning training of the seal fit operator workouts and I had to develop I desired to develop a curriculum for mental toughness and resiliency right and all that and so I was drawing from my martial arts and from these skills that helped me get through bud so we've already talked about and from yoga I had taken up yoga in 2000 and I found it to be extraordinarily valuable right the full spectrum of yoga not just the stretchy bendy stuff that was interest earning sage and but you know all these skills that I found in the martial arts which were applied for self-defense are found in yoga to be you know with the application of your evolution right right become the-best-version-of-yourself to integrate right that's what yoga that's the word actually means union or integration there it is not most Westerners at least back then didn't understand that's what yoga was right it's the oldest science of personal development known to mankind and all martial arts actually kind of sprung from yoga that's what my historical research has shown mobile yoga yeah well well bodhidharma was a yogi who traveled to into China and taught the Zen monks or taught the Shaolin monks Zen that we called it Shawn and taught them some you know more conditioning right sure they could protect their monastery and that that evolved the Chinese martial arts Chinese would probably laugh at that you know everything was developed in China no you know no no I don't think so at any rate um so there you have it I mean I I am was fortunate to have these skills and I wanted to go back to the I knew I had a point there I went down a rabbit hole so so the seal candidates would come in and we'd be working with them and everything everything they just were laughing up because here's about Navy SEAL commander and we're just doing hard-hitting stuff and it's really working and when I started teaching the mental toughness I was using like terms like even the word yoga you know I said we're in an even we're gonna do some yoga and they're like you know starting across the rise I decided smirk a little bit like what is this [ __ ] so I I took the foo out of the country I literally took all these skills breath control and the attention control and the concentration mindfulness stuff that would you know that they would have considered foofy and I just broke it down into a simplest component parts and I renamed it and I just started teaching him and saying you need to do this if you want to maintain control in the battlefield and clear your mind and stay focused and you know be able to tap into your intuition and to be able to you know stop or slow down time when you're in a firefight so you can engage the target and survive and thrive on the battlefield and make good decisions under pressure and they're like yeah yeah we want all that and then I say okay you want all that then do this right here's a practice called box breathing right pranayama I could if I had called it pranayama they would have been like what everything box breathing right and then you know that you take you remove the holds and you got tactical breathing mmm right I didn't come up with that term actually seals used that before but they weren't teaching it you know it was just something that they hoped well yeah I mean I'm going back to my days on the range and definitely in the fundamentals back in boot camp one of the first things I remember being taught about you know marksmanship was breathing yes exactly yeah and you know maybe they were like hey we're gonna teach these kids these young recruits and some yoga you know practices here but you know they don't lead what they don't say that it's like they just pull like what is actually happening what is the end result and what are the tangible tactics here you know from these different modalities which I would love they've come along right yeah they have all of them all the military sort of fact we had a friend who was Kokoro graduate Kokoro is our 50-hour kinda hell weeks right yeah who was down working with the Air Force pararescue and they're implementing bongs breathing and visualization and you know the big four skills into their training I think that's an amazing benchmark and not just like human evolution but definitely the military evolution em because think about going back to your whole premise here of becoming a warrior and the warrior is not what we think it is it's not this person who is this elite killing machine I mean you were probably still are you know the seals and military people you know the first thing you were trained in yeah you know we're trained in like defense and killing on top of your your job your MOS but just imagine how much more elite that warrior would be that the Warrior Ethos that was always instill to me and the army was you know if I can have the ability to pause to breathe and to you know have visualization and really not just you know react to something I would truly be able to respond to and understand what's going on in my body my mind I I just think that would be it's phenomenally militancy change in the character on the force as well because like I mentioned these skills are money when the pressures on it's alright right pressures on quite a bit for the military man or woman like the you know there's a high pressure environment high risk training is you know often life or death but then you got you go into a combat situation where someone's actually trying to kill you it doesn't get any more high-pressure so these tools really help the individuals stay together and to really focus and you know to come come through that but as I mentioned earlier when you look at it through that yogic lens and these tools are used daily as in practice then they evolve your character right you become a more authentic person you become more able to connect at a heart level which you know most guys who have military experience are actually fairly emotionally or shits put it this way more emotionally evolved than a lot of others I'm extremely emotional over the years able to connect with other men in trailer yeah because of that relationship oh the bonding experience absolutely experience right and you know you literally have to trust someone in their life so that's pretty cool but so imagine you you know you're not only fighting together but you're also breathing together and you're doing these practices together training together training together in the trenches right and you're doing these practices every day and so now not only are you evolving but the whole team is evolving and then you know when you get into these really weird murky situations you're gonna make better decisions mm-hmm you know and you see you know even the seals just having horrific experiences in the media you know seal platoon sent home from drinking too much and then the whole Gallagher thing you know it's like what's going on it's like they need character development just like the rest of the country I'll send this episode to them when we're done here yeah go for it I'll link you down this is the conversation I've had with a lot of Co leaders or a few si leaders who really care about this stuff is like it's one thing to train toughness is another thing to train character and my premise is that the same tools can be used to train character as training toughness but you got a train yeah you do them differently and you have to add some different intentionality to it and you know you still have to allow the individual to experience the moral cliff where they're gonna have the yes/no green-red decision right right yeah it's always because of these practices they'll be more aware more present more connecting they're not gonna be checked out they're not going to be as you may be caught up in whatever story right is happening around them right they're gonna be more present and thoughtful so then they'll press the green button instead of the red button and then they'll have that feedback loop yeah feeding back into them yeah and just lay down that neural pathway and it becomes your new norm hopefully you know long-terms back in military training civilian training one word that stood out to me or kind of rose to the top was immersion and I'm no stranger to it you're no stranger to it if we really want to get not just good but extremely proficient at a skill what do we do in the military we get sent to these separate schools or we have like a week-long crash course total immersion for me my job is military I was a linguist and so I went for a year my a IT was just I was a Russian linguist and they sent me to this school with native speakers every day from day one for a year no English here and there but I walk in day one I got this Bob Bush god this Russian grandma Yellin at me I don't know what the hell she's saying but you know what it works and it's a joke because I remember in high school I struggled with language I took Spanish summer school I was horrible but you know they waived that enlistment bonus and GI Bill and you know it was a great deal and they're like you know we'll train you we will give you we won't make you fail basically that's awesome they are cool so total immersion work for me and I know the power and Total Immersion training and that sounds like what you use a lot and you know your 30-day course isn't doing everything for someone who really wants to get into the practice of this you know and even with a total immersion you know outside of that there's a long-term practice involved how can someone listening right now who maybe can't commit you know financially geographically whatever to coming to a weekend course 30-day course but once that emerge in practice like how can they do that in their everyday life to put themselves on the path towards this evolution we've been talking about the self there are two ways to really develop yourself and they work like a hand in glove right so one is the immersive experience that's the fastest way and it's the best way like if you really want to go deep and learn something you got to throw your being into it so I highly recommend immersive training events the second way which is best like I said coupled with immersive experience like if you the ideal way to like learn these skills would be to come to our three-day immersive on Beal mind experience and then begin your daily discipline training it's like the crash course you need yeah the crash course will rely on the cognitive download you're getting the direct experience and the direct transfer of knowledge from you know the people who develop the knowledge right yeah right or curated the knowledge that would be me and my coaches and you're actually then deploying some of the skills under pressure and getting to experience the value or the power of them and also being able to you know get some self referential feedback loops going right so yeah so your practice once you leave is going to be like much more spot-on and you're going to be accelerating into your your transformation journey back to your question if that's not possible because you can't afford it or something oh by the way I literally just this is funny I probably regret saying this but this one woman was very persistent and asking for a scholarship to come in and be mind experience and you know that's something we do very often once in a while I've done it for Kokoro or for ambien mind but she had a very well articulated offer of you know to provide value or benefit back to me it wasn't just coming with her hand down hey hey can I get a freebie right yeah and so I you know I thought about it like okay yeah that's it so my point there is there's the money should never be an obstacle right for anybody to do anything because if you really want something bad enough there's always a way you'll find a way there's always the way and find a way to make a way so that being said the daily discipline training is crucial and you can you know you can do the daily to some training without you know the the immersive event so the way that would work would let's say it's unreal mine using our program read the book and then join the online training right to start to get the experience digitally virtually it's one of the real benefits of our technological age here and then practice every day and then you're gonna find a coach you need someone and it doesn't have to be it can be someone else or a mentor someone else's while someone who is at least one step right down the path here trying to ease things it's really difficult to do alone because if you start training let's say breath control improperly or visualization improperly you might actually lead yourself down the wrong path right these skills are not there they're they're simple but not easy to do yes simple but not easy but right and there are nuanced right and that's why typically they've been taught with an instructor in yoga they call the Guru in martial arts you got the sensei so you really need kind of a sensei to help answer your questions and make sure that you're you know you're not walking the trail you know yeah down the wrong path and find yourself in of like what happened you know this stuff is supposed to work that's such a good point um and I think it's very easy to say or maybe is just awareness thing I'm hearing it more you'll find a mentor find a coach find a sensei but really what we're saying is find someone who like I said earlier as at least one step further down the path you think you want to go how do we go about doing that you know how do we pay attention to someone who is actually gonna have value to offer us is not just blowing smoke up our ass you know who how can we really kind of vet this person to invest that time and to have that immersion experience with someone to coach us and then it really depends upon what your what we're talking about learning you know what I mean so if it is in these again in these skills that we're talking about then um to me finding a group mm a team a tribe write a song ha to train with try for sure is really powerful because within that try fellowship yeah within the fellowship of other individuals who are all pursuing you're always gonna find someone who's traveled you know a few trail markers ahead of you that you can kind of guide off of right and then you're gonna see that they have lined up coaches or mentors and one of those individuals is gonna be a right fit for you you might have to go through a few to find it you know I've been through this so many times in my life like finding one of the reasons I got back into a structured martial art was because you know I've got years and years of training you know multiple different arts and yoga your black belt right I have three black belt and I'm a certified scars instructor for lost scars a special combat aggressive reactionary system so I was one of three hundred certified and with the military in common that so I know how to fight I know how to do that but on my own I was lacking kind of the progression and the teacher relationship okay and you know for sure there's a point where you don't really need that if you've advanced enough and I don't need it need it but I enjoy that for my own development right I don't show that and I was missing that so I got back into Aikido with a really really good instructor and trained twice a week and it's been really enjoyable and I feel some you know neuroplastic stimulation happen every time I roll around coming back and so but I had to reach out to some people that I knew to ask like who would be an appropriate teacher for me right you know and I'd be willing to do private training or a small group I didn't really want to just walk into an a dojo and hope that the instructor was gonna be right for me yeah so you got to do some research upfront because you can waste a lot of time you know going from one person you think is gonna be your coach mentor time money right energy right and you can do that with business coaches or life coaches too you can suck a lot or their I call therapists emotional coaches everyone should have a number of them define you know one who really works well with my wife and I and we see her individually and also as a couple excellent well so I have Co I have an emotional coach I have a coach from my own and deal mind program largely so that I can eat my own dog food right and you know this very conversation is why I haven't like if I'm gonna ask you to until you the support have a coach then I've got to have a coach yeah and I'm part of a Oh entrepreneur organization and I'm getting I've just applied to get a coach from the sister organization called ypm it's okay that's for strategic business don't know so you need strategic business if you're in business you need you know the emotional side I don't have a fitness coach anymore because I kind of got that one pretty dialed yeah you got a pretty good a pretty good backstory there you know what you're doing what I have and if I see coach Glassman it was my coach oh yeah at any rate everyone should have a coach you might need more than one it's my point what I heard you say there I think is so important and I know this is I think we kind of touched on it but I've heard it and some content for you before and that's becoming better asking the right question and on this path of you know we say living a life ever Ford besides the back story I shared with you it's kind of bringing in these key aspects of what I have found worked well for me in my practice and that's key areas of fitness and mindset and instead of asking maybe the person listening right now is like yes I want that like I want to Train like a seal or I want to be a podcaster I want to do anything it's not not so much maybe how do I do it or what do I need to do to be able to do it but who how did you get so proficient or how did you gonna come to the realization that asking the right question is maybe the best starting point to do problem solving I think it took me a while to realize that that was what led meat into the seals mm-hmm right I was just kind of going through that process but what I found is anytime my life kind of started to go off the rails that I would I was drawn to come back to the meditation bench and you know cuz as you know in the military it's really hard to have a daily meditation practice at least back then because there was no structure everyone you know it's kind of a weird thing and so I tried right and and also let me say one other thing I had the mistaken impression that practice had to be like sitting down on that bench mm-hmm right oh this idea of what we think we're supposed to be doing right like like like you have to go to the gym to workout yeah that's fast Yeah right wherever your body is there's your main workout I have to shuffle foods to eat healthy so these you know these you get into these belief systems so I had this belief system that if I didn't have my bench and time to sit down and train then yeah you know I wasn't training huh reality is training is all day long every yes every moment and the cracks between doing this and doing that as an opportunity to train your mind so I hadn't quite figured that out you know when I was in the military so I went for chunks of time where I wasn't training like that but I was doing the Navy SEAL stuff and the Navy SEALs stuff had enough yeah attributes in it that I was still really developing a you know my intuition and my integration so that was cool but when I got off active duty and I went into business and I started my first business which is the Coronado Brewing Company it became really really toxic quickly because my partners were just not great people you know I mean and and so I noticed that my decision-making started to get flawed or because of the pollution of your fellow solution of the environment plus I this is hard to articulate really quickly but I didn't recognize right away how much the structure and the culture of the seals influenced my decisions and my the quality of my life while I was in the seals and when I got off active duty maybe you experience this all of a sudden all that structure and all that you know mindset the culture of your team is gone the transition of yeah and wake up one day had the support system next day it's gone it's just a blank slate tabula rasa and so I filled that I loud that blank slate to be filled with negative [ __ ] in the form of negative people who were manipulating me and and I found it very hard to make a good decision in that so I I was drawn to go back to the meditation bench and when I did that all of a sudden I found myself with the space the mental space where the questions started to come to me again I'm like is this the right thing why did I start a brewery what does this mean for my life in the future do I really need free beer for life coming from the family issues like it seemed like a good idea at the time but was it really the most important question really good idea most guys would say that's a great idea this is I'm bad to me right now and anyway so when I started asking the right questions again I was like oh you know they led me to basically walk away from the business and walk away from millions of dollars but the answer to the question is is that money important to me to sacrifice you know my health my relationships and you know pop who knows what else no it was not so I walked away and then I think that was so such a powerful experience because of the you know some of the pain associated with that I guess that I started to really focus more on my own training and I never stopped training ever since then that was 2003 ish that I walked away from that so I've trained every day yeah mentally and physically since then never you know stopped meditating never stopping breath work never stop visualizing never stop you know the physical movement and then what I saw is my growth just really accelerated because I didn't have all the big chunks of time between thinking I'm gonna do this and then not doing it right well that's a lot of people what meditation retreat now get all excited and they'll do it for a few weeks and then they stop yeah and then they then they go to a yoga retreat and they're like that's exciting and then they stop how many people literally shaking their head yes yes nowhere fast right yeah it's better to do five minutes of breath control training every day when you wake up the more in just 5 minutes of box breathing then stacking you know 3 or 4 seminars yeah in a year and not doing anything in-between think about how applicable that is in so many other areas you know oh I I don't have an hour workout a might as well now I only have you know 40 minutes only have 30 minutes no I workouts are 20 minutes long days I mean I spend more time doing yoga than I do we're asking the wrong questions right yeah oh how can I get an hour to Train know how can I maximize the 20 minutes that I have right I don't have 30 minutes my lunch hour for maximum effect I mean to me that's that should be called training hour yeah exactly and then you know you're whatever you're gonna eat your salad at your desk and I'm standing at your desk hopefully I think more specific with those questions I need to get a standing desk actually I was reminded of this I who was it oh um Jacko's is one of his Instagram videos popped up on my feet yesterday and he was talking about his new stand-up desk or he was just at it and it's like another awareness thing lately he's like the fourth person this week I think I've seen I stand here most of the time that's why I said we could do it for this podcast but a perfect this is but I don't really have an office anymore came a joke for a long time because when were at our other training center we had I told you about it was like this beautiful you know five thousand square foot facility in Encinitas and we ran our steel foot events out of there I had a CrossFit gym and I literally staged myself in every single space we had as my office to try it out and I noticed that everywhere I went two things one I start I was able to have a slightly different perspective okay right which changed my thinking just a little bit really subtle and number two is I eventually got bored and decided I didn't want the office and I wanted to move and so finally I'm like why do I even need an office screw that and I find I don't have an office to clutter things up I just carry stuff in my backpack in the back of my car and I work from my mobile phone and and if I need you know a laptop I'll throw it here in my little podcast studio and I'm protected from the world and I've got my motivational you know poster behind me it's great I maybe should have hit you guys up sooner we got this great blue background we're gonna be washed out both wearing blue so it's gonna be some like floating heads [Laughter] he's a ninja [Laughter] I want to ask one thing just because I'm sure you know it's not every day I get to talk to you know a Navy SEAL I've got friends who Rangers and Special Forces but you know first of all thank you for your service thank you what was the most difficult part of buds training I we talked about how you kind of had like a leg up in terms of you had that mindset focused pretty pretty tight and that was definitely the main message my dad told me as I chase they're not gonna kill you you're gonna reel and you're gonna make it it's all a mental game so you had that kind of squared away other than that like what was the most difficult part of SEAL training he's like all of it there's no question even though I jokingly say buds was I would rather go back through buds then retake the CPA exam it was not easy but the tools I had allowed me to navigate it okay right so there's no question wasn't easy the only thing I ever failed physically evolution that I failed was after hell week I couldn't hold on to the monkey bars on the on the obstacle course I had so much rhabdo in my forums I literally couldn't get a grip and so that was the only thing I failed that didn't apparently matter too much in the long run too you know you get like one yeah but the hardest part for me chase was you know it's a long haul right it's a long long slog yeah and I remember like literally early and third phase when we were like you know this sir back then buds was six months and then you had four months of what we called seal seal tactical training like a advanced individual free I T but now they put it all together and so it's ten months it's ten months and but buds is one part and then they call it s QT so kind of like periodized it yeah they've taken into two sections but once you graduate buds you get the Trident but you can still lose the Trident and that's the point because now you go and your team you know everything gets amped up okay at any rate so for me is you know it's like month five you know or four and a half I was like this ever gonna end and I had like a few days where I wasn't gonna quit but my motivation and my energy just got really low and I was like [ __ ] I don't know I don't want to do this anymore right and then I had to you know you thought that you said I had you know I had that thought but I didn't say I was gonna quit I just like I don't [ __ ] want to do this anymore and I realized that if I can't blame me thinking that thought then I might have an injury or you know something might happen so I had to bring the skills and a mop okay this is what's happening I'm fatigued you know I'm like this is PTSD you know from buds itself yeah and so I really ramped up the skills and just I maintain a positive mindset and talk to myself and like really positively like I got this cake yeah almost there right is that similar way you kind of talk your way out of failure now yeah yeah I had a munch right so a couple mantras that I use back then where I'm feeling good I'm looking good ought to be in Hollywood and so I got this where it would play like a record in the background enough almost drives me crazy down the road from LA it made me laugh right I mean smile be kind of cool and and then you know the seals have a saying a slogan on the grinder this is the only easy day was yesterday a lot of people haven't heard that the only easy day was yesterday so I just used to say to myself easy day I've got this whoo-yah and whoo-yah is the seals like hoorah who or who are me who are me head whoo yeah whoo yah is actually a pretty pretty cool combination of syllables because I liken it to the like a warrior shout like you have the kiai which is a warrior cry or they called a spirit shout in the martial arts whoo Yas the seals spirit shout and most people study the martial arts know that the warrior stores energy every human does but you know warriors practices to store energy in the belly the belly was really a source of power right it's where the term fire in the belly comes yeah I believe it we actually had an award at Budds for there was honor man that was the top performer and then there was the fire and the gut award for the person who just like you're like hard that hell is it like the the Miss Congeniality award of her kind of make it like he just didn't quit everyday you know I don't know why you're still here but you are fine eliwood so anyways the hooyah the who kind of draws the energy from the belly whoo and then the yah is like an arrow yeah going back to our breath work that inhales yeah so it's actually it's combining breath and sound and then when you do this together as in class it like supercharges your energy and it clears your mind I mean there's so much going on this and so when you when you do it and everyone execute the whoo yah simultaneously so it's like one sound the instructors that's the sound that the team is coming together that's amazing right the team spirit is now unified it's so much more than a word right and if you start to understand that what's going on these Warriors are really wise yeah right so I had to get my team spirit back so okay I'd started to talk to myself easy I got this whoo yan those are mantras that I offer to my seal fit candidates and I said well you can't have them they're free right now or come up with your own right another one that I borrowed from Amelia QA was day by day in every way I'm getting better and better except I say I'm gonna longer and better like that that's pretty cool so if you're telling yourself that a hundred times or a thousand times a day eventually you're gonna prove yourself right it's that mindset components right Gordon yeah kind of getting towards the end here I want a mindful of your time I greatly appreciate the conversation that's not just the story with you we have one final question but I want to ask you one other thing before I get there and this guy's got a timeout I mean I want to make I want to capture this a lot of your work and a lot of your your writing and everything about you stems from one word and it's warrior can you define that for us because I think like I said earlier you say that where people just automatically think usually one thing what is a warrior and what are the warriors you are creating for the world right now it's a really good question let me first say that there the Tibetans believe that certain words can get poisoned or a lot it's the bastardize so their their meaning gets lost or diffuse so they actually believe that mindfulness and meditation those two words have lost their power really and that interesting really I think the same thing of the word warrior a lot of people think warrior means military operator it's nothing further than the truth there are warriors in the military there are also non warriors in the military there's careerist there's the thugs right there's politicians there's athletes Yeah right to me warrior is an archetypal energy that everybody has or everybody has the capacity to activate it and the warrior archetype is the individual who man or woman young or old who will stand for something important and then is willing to stand their ground and when someone tries to take that away or to tell them differently right and how does standing your ground look well for the for me I was I need to serve my country and lead other individuals so I'm going to stand my ground by becoming a Navy SEAL and doing it well and then I'm gonna you know serve my country by going to take out the bad guy or you know train now train other individuals to be mom more effective lawyers right both more mentally tough more resilient and have the character to make better decisions you know in this VUCA volatile uncertain complex and ambiguous world that we live in so the warrior is someone who's clear about why they do what they do they're willing to stand for something yeah and to take a stand when that thing is challenged and take a stand for others when they can take a stand for others right that's typically then so then the question is like what are some of the characteristics of what you would want to stand for so we want to teach that as well so for me inclusiveness and connection are big words are a big part of that right I think that our world is far to segment it and separate it and separation leads to suffering and so you see that like I agree are separated from each other in society and it's lead to suffering we're separated from each other at a geopolitical at a state level and we're creating suffering by investing in violence right and so I'd like to create a generation of warriors who are more connected internally to themselves they're able to connect to others at a heart level at a whole being level regardless of race age gender sexual orientation whatever every human being is the same on the inside I agree all right and so I want people to experience that and to become world centric in their orientation meaning everyone has value and and then you know start getting you know people with those that value where separation is bad connection is good world centric we're all together is good I'm not saying anything about sovereignty or you know politics ring I still think you know nation-states have a place and China should always be proud to be China and America should be proud to be America but we shouldn't be fighting each other for [ __ ] resources and you know and we shouldn't be elitist to think that our way is the only way and I'm not talking about the sauce I'm talking about you know others like Chinese they think their ways that is the only way right and in Americans a lot of the American exceptionalism was kind of has the same thing it's like okay there's value at least from the perspective of these other individuals so let them have that perspective not if if through experiencing a relationship with you or connection with our culture they start to change that value great yeah right but don't force it down this room that's why we've been embroiled in war in Iraq for 18 sourcing because the money forces a Western democracy and they weren't ready for it yeah nor do they want it yeah exactly nor do they want I think that's where a lot of people missed the mark as well as because you may have good intention if like hey let me help you hey let me share with you but what if what if I don't want it you know I'm not gonna absorb anything you have to share with me until I want to right absolutely I love that definition of the warrior and that that macro focus did always mess up macro micro the world centric world centric is very macro yeah for sure there we go yeah I think macro I'm just like that obviously you know a lot of people are scared about technology I think warriors don't fear you know it's a false evidence appearing real or a false expectation yeah yeah that technology is gonna dominate and all of a sudden we're gonna be like puppets or or you know slaves to AI I don't see that ever happening you know technology doesn't doesn't you know have the capacity to become conscious consciousness and awareness and spirit are unique to the human domain and the animal kingdom to send some degree I think that we'll always be able to leverage technology and we'll make life better or if in the wrong hands it could destroy yeah humanity that's why I want to focus I have a sense of urgency to help you know individuals and a lot of them evolve so that we can help humanity evolve so that we can right leverage technology and the good you know the good side of it you know and also smack down those evil people who will use it and I think in a lot of ways what you're doing kind of going back to the emergent principle is you know anybody who helps anybody else in any way shape or form personal trainer helps someone get fit a nutritionist dietician helps someone eat better life coach helps with life you know emotional coach helps with you know emotions I think in doing so focusing on individual is really a long-term immersion to this world centric approach that you talk about because let's be honest like you're not gonna change the world I'm not gonna change the world if we focus on changing the world know what we can do is focus on helping our neighbor right changing you know people you know first focus on yourself yes yes our overarching vision for unbilled - self mastery in service I like that but it's in that order eventually it becomes a simultaneous thing but first we master ourselves we do the training every day before we go coach our clients otherwise you're not showing up you know the way you should yeah you're seal instructors weren't people they just pull off the street right like God's to us because yeah holy [ __ ] and they were choosing their next teammates yeah so it was very important for them the you know that this wasn't they didn't just blow off their three-year tour months and it was easier than combat and a lot of I mean they were there that was a very important job they were know selecting the next generation of teammates pretty interesting yeah it's amazing I'm gonna turn this guy back on for our final question here I don't really have an agenda with the interviews always try to just make morgana commerce thank you but no and sharing with you like I click on yeah this story of ever Ford you know definitely talking to a military man you know we have our military origins and that as well when I say that to you what does that mean to you what are those two words mean to mark Devine how would you say that you live a life ever Ford yeah ever Ford to me means a relentless drive toward mastering yourself so that you can serve others we just talked about there's no day that we're training your body mind and spirit is off the table even vacation days right it's always there you're ever putting your your two feet on to the training mat and out of the meditation mat and in the breath control you know yeah position or whatever that is whatever that looks like for you and physically moving your body and fueling yourself well and sleeping well and you know practicing being present and authentic and connecting with your wife and your kids and your teammates it's all practice your life is a practice that's the ever forward mentality if you're not practicing to become the best version of yourself then you're practicing to become a lesser version of yourself very true yeah if you're not what's not to like demote anything you just said but this is just where my brain goes if you ain't first you're last you know that tell it diggin Knights quote if you're not putting yourself in pursuit of optimization of putting one foot in front of the other physically mentally emotionally spiritually then you know Bennett rhetoric alone and negative you know negativity that surround you will be pulling you backward absolutely and you'll be training weakness yeah yeah I love it mark like I said always love talking to other military guys and it's just you're an amazing example of what you can do when you put your mind on the path towards immersion and self-mastery and just optimization in general but also you know for all my military family out there listening and it's like what the hell am I going to do after the military we briefly touch about that transition aspect and it's difficult you know for me it wasn't a choice you know I was injured I got medically discharged and it literally is just your identity gets yanked from you whether it's of your own choice or Uncle Sam one day you wake up in your soldier sailor marine whatever the next day I feel like what am i that's a great example we started a foundation to help veterans who were suffering from post-traumatic stress just amazing I got I could just crush me to hear that 22 vets a day are committing suicide whole dozen - yeah it's insane and so we have a foundation now called the courage foundation and we're putting vets for free through our immersion with 12 months of coaching oh we just ran the first one in March it was phenomenal it's amazing and they're already starting to you know show really significant change I love it actually right around here over an instant where Encinitas is uh you familiar already yeah I was a good friend of mine he was one of my coaches at annuus CrossFit but I talked to him literally the day before he went to Benghazi I'm Shawn lake used to work for us - he runs the foundation he started yeah the Glen Doherty foundation now that he run he runs bubs Naturals their friends that they're actually a sponsor of the show oh great and I've been over in their presence and Bob's is awesome they're amazing yeah shout out bugs Naturals youth from a code I'll link in the show notes but yeah I just love that and I think that's so important I kinda have a bleeding-heart for the military as well as you know that transition is so important and if we can begin to implement these skill sets of visualization of mindset of training the mind as much as the military does the body and everything else I personally believe that transition will be much more bearable I agree it's like pre resiliency training yes and so the tools like before finding with the courage foundation these tools that you know but really no difference the context that we teach him is different yeah so when someone's suffering from post-traumatic stress the same tools that we use to you know teach them one to win the Olympics or to you know run their company better we use them to help these people recover and so they have a recovery impact very profound recovery impact as well as transformation as well as resiliency amazing and mental toughness under pressure I mean really it's just slight tweaks of how you use the skills and they work for you in different scenarios that's so necessary thank you again for that yeah well it's been a great connecting with you of course I'll have all of the information listed down the show notes you know I'm from the unbeatable mind podcast the book the unbeatable mind and so many other great um I actually was on my way down and when we moved I recently moved him DC here we've only been here like eight nine months so move yeah I still missed a couple aspects of the East Coast of DC but I mean I mean Here I am I can't complain and my wife because we drove when we did like a cleanse we sold so many of our that's great belongings just me my wife my dog and what we could fit in our car was great and she wouldn't let me bring all my books and I had a couple of yours in there and I was like I thought I brought him with me going down I gotta bring the book actually I called Barnes and Noble on the way down and I know the nearest ones in Maryland speaking of East Coast like [ __ ] so well I'll list all your books in there definitely the ones that I'm most familiar with one coming up I I saw that staring down the wolf I like that that's for about it's for leadership emotion emotionally aware leadership excellent yeah no doubt it's gonna be great I can't wait to pick it up yeah thank you so much appreciate really nice to meet you back so thank you thank you [Music] you [Music]

Channel: Chase Chewning

Views: 14,909

Keywords: mark divine, mental toughness, navy seal, navy seals, sealfit, ever forward, chase chewning, podcast, how to podcast, how to be a navy seal, how to train like a navy seal, navy seal workout, encinitas, way of the seal

Id: Cq88lWWrGSQ

Length: 73min 48sec (4428 seconds)

Published: Tue Aug 27 2019