Mike Rowe | The Way I Heard It - The Art of Charm Podcast Episode 597

[Music] my my dad we found out that I was going to relieve you know II should do is wear some dirty clothes because you're interfering the guy from their two jobs and I thought to help amendment that's why it's no longer the chief creative director of the art track that was the last bit too on the nose yeah it's a little bit much he's a Ford guy by the way he wanted to make sure that you're still driving that truck they gave you it is eleven years old now and they're really yeah oh okay I got a sport great downstairs I know again I haven't bought a car I've never in my life bought a good car ever really I haven't purchased a piece of clothing probably in all at least 15 years maybe more because you keep getting there getting things for three or because no steal you guys do a month they got collecting from bud well I would never do that but there's sort of this unspoken thing when I have like on a commercial shoot you know they bring in wardrobe and nobody knows what you're going to wear but always wear the same crap and put it on and they bring alternates and reading a helsing at the end I just take it and they don't care down here now they're so happy we had a good day you know integ keeps it close so that's why I'm almost always dressed in the outfit the goings people see me as always it's weird that's why you so recognizable it's part of it land the same thing I went without the Hat today though which is a bold departure I think for me well we were going to bring you ahead and we were like oh we forgot an r2 term had then we thought he's gonna he's got a hundred and fifty hats I don't have any so charm though that's right only about your podcast with it what is this what is the art of charm that you're looking to a sewer to lock so essentially what we do on the show is we we ask brilliant people such as yourself interesting questions and try to make their wisdom available to everyone so we've had people like Larry King talked about interesting conversations we had general McChrystal come on and talk about making tough decisions because he's made a lot general Hayden came on talked about some of the ethics involved in surveillance any things like that and we've had body language experts and hostage negotiators come on and talk about negotiation and things like that so we thought that something that people can apply rather than just be quote-unquote inspired because inspiration is kind of cheap it's more like you can do it but can you do it so you've redefined charm to include elements of challenge inspiration obviously but rooted in a broad-based level of overarching practical exactly that's I thought that's what I said talks right is what I did but yeah you know feel like you use the English word no I didn't either burly I'm going to next time though okay so when we headed that part out and then I say it again on camera it's going to sound really good it'll sound good but it won't be charming see but because it was charming what you just described would be polished and in many ways I believe the enemies of charm are delivering this in much the same way I would argue that the enemies of authenticity are production yes we put barriers in front of that which we declare to be our objective we do it all the time you do with everything my double view now I agree with that we actually when the show first started it was about taking off the social mask the representative that everyone meets when you first put yourself out there and people were saying things when I was in law school was like you know in order to get a job what you need to do is this this this this and this in the interview and I thought wait isn't that not going to work when I'm spending twenty five hours a day with every single person in this office they're going to figure out pretty quick that me coming in dressed in a certain way speaking a certain way with perfect eye contact and a firm handshake only lasted 40 minutes on a good day which improves your regular annual yeah yeah which is maybe what they want then you're becoming an attorney yeah critical but not good for spending time in airport lodges with other people who are equally miserable no but there's sterilized economy right you know we this idea that if you're in compliance then you're in good graces is sort of like with the with OSHA you know with safety the idea that are in compliance you're out of danger right fundamentally a species yeah that's not true that organization must have multiple issues with what you've done over the past few years I would imagine we inspired what I called an army of angry acronyms left in the wake of of Dirty Jobs Ocean certainly fired off more than a few strongly worded memos the EPA was constantly at high alert angry and angry PETA is probably the biggest source of congenital a predictable rage the Humane Society was right there even the FBI hired from the FBI on the complications what did they want there was a crime-scene cleanup thing and there's act they heard some things that see the thing is today as you know the the interwebs there are populated almost entirely by correctors right the world is standing by now to tell you that you got it wrong sure and thanks to you know our our devices we can immediately find proof that we're right and the other person's wrong whereas they can find proof too because there's no end right there's just no end to the sources that can gainsay the other source and so we've just become this extraordinarily pedantic people and I think we've confused listen ask me a question let us talk now that's okay that's I'm just here I know what is this charming we've confused we've confused noise and sound an argument with conversation communication we look at a lot well all of your Facebook posts and those letters and the videos that are done and they're at first it was like well just like row guys really funny and then it was like wow his fans are including us even more ridiculous at some times I mean the letter you got from sweet week that was like oh it's just annoying I can't see the water on this day it's like there's a battleship in front of you fully veterans you just came back from the wars oh sorry yeah you know just kind of risk gonna lie for you yeah that's all I know it must be very annoying distracted yeah that's what you sorry your dog gets scared when they do fly owner is a fighter jets from pilots that have been yet not at people it's just a big looking good love I mean look it's it I mean it's enough to make you crazy but the truth is you have to keep reminding yourself if everybody saw in your way and we really whether it's politics or social whatever is if everybody agreed on everything it's what I get out of bed charity I mean BB in North Korea so basically you had to get out of bed for other reasons if you had a minute that's cold up there it is we're cool they all talk different they do they factor that part that part is definitely sure yeah okay I had I've been there three four times what first time I went because I thought this place is weird I got to go check it out this is probably ten almost ten years ago the second time I went was because I talked about it on this show that we're doing right now and people say wait a minute you can go check that place out and I said yeah I can go on tours and you can see it for yourself so I've brought a group of show fans and friends with me to North Korea talked about that on the show as well and then that filled up another trip and then another trip because I think it's an interesting I mean I'm not a fan of Kim Kim I probably should go one last time before we air that's that little slip-up but but when I go there I bring people to talk and see the culture and engage the people because as you might imagine there's a lot of normal people though that live in a regime that they know at some level is not working after that yes and in every level at every level at every single level and they they ask for things when you go there they ask for things like hey that camera that you're using how does it work and you're explaining to them things like iPads cameras phones they're looking at videos and they they can't believe it and they've heard of Facebook but they've never seen it and every time we go there the guys will say to you having games on this because they maybe never played anywhere and so they'll sit there play all day you know it's it I used to read all the time like back in the 20s and 30s accounts of civilizations or tribes being discovered we had never seen anything you know a post-industrial revolution and obviously it's harder and harder to find that today but I remember like 15 years ago I was hiking from Cusco to Machu Picchu now my dad did that it's a great hike we were headed up to Katie Gaga but along the way because the side hike and you know we hired some that they're not Sherpas over there but we just hired some help we had a ton of gear he was lazy we were just slummin and these kids humped our crab for about four and a half days and they were just amazing I mean they would run they would sleep in like we'd start around 7:00 they get up around 10:00 and pass us around 10:30 or 11:00 and then make our lunch by the time we got there with all your stuff all our gear in sandals running I could still hear them running behind me was like comparison confirmation and they run by anyway um we fit them obviously but I had this old Walkman this old Sony Walkman and Soundgarden just oh yeah right sure so Superunknown I dragged herself and I've been listening to that and I put these headphones on this kid and I said hey what do you think of this because he like played the flute you know right I was building and so is the first time you ever heard an electric guitar it's the first time he ever heard that big screeching tenor harmonies the first time you heard it from kid like that and you could just see his head exploding I mean it was just it it was he couldn't have looked at me with more wonder and I pulled my own head off perfectly and presented it to him while it was still talking so I said look keep it you know just keep yeah and you enjoy the album enjoy the thing but then when I left I was like oh crap what have I done you know like they looted their well looks like a prime directive on Star Trek I know you messed with something and what what happened the batteries ran out or like is there is there a giant monument now there somewhere that looks like a welcome and I said you know 1989 first version one concerning Walkman was like a futuristic looking digital sign on the front right right so you know the ultimate arbiter of knowledge is Chris Cornell right right we have to consult the Oracle the records anyway that's like the the Boy Scout rule is what take only pictures leave only footprints and possibly in a Walkman the sound guard to saying it particularly one Ito you take yes ten years ago or over ten years ago now I'm watching TV in my friends basement where essentially I was living and studying for the bar exam and I'm miserable as can be starting for the New York Bar Exam and I see this guy's sticking his hand deep inside some some animal and I remember thinking this is really cool I wondered I mean how do I get that job and at this point you have your hand up a bull's ass so I should have probably taken a cue about my career choices from that they can doing the whole compare/contrast back then retrospect 20/20 hindsight and it seems like now that we've come full circle AOC argotron is very big on pushing outside the comfort zone making sure that we are always pushing that bubble and you've got that same thing as well you've got this what's the word you use the para Katya hmm and I recently repeat to you that's right I only got the last one well it's you know having the rhesus is a Greek word for discovery a pair of butea is a form of discovery aristotle basically argue that all insight comes through a series of discoveries and great narratives are informed by an egg norisse's that lead to a parity and that's a discovery that changes the direction of a narrative right so when bruce willis realizes at the end of the sixth sense that he's dead that's apparent to you right right now along the way he has all these allegories between when he makes that kind of realization that's when the narrative the story changes that's what his life changes that someone Oedipus realizes you know he has an an egg the recent Oedipus does in act two when he when he meets this hot older chick and they start to make love and fall in love and then they have babies you know that I'm married all that anger easy act five he realizes the hot older chick is his mom compared to you right it changes the direction simply directed so mine would have been sitting in an office in Manhattan checking for commas in an 800 page document and going I wish I had my hand in a bull's blood somewhere like Mike right yeah I mean look people would look at dirty jobs and and find whatever they were seeking right you know yeah you can look at that show you look at that segment and see a big cautionary tale you know a lot of people that a lot of people watch it with their kids to say see could be worse could be that guy but equally passionate among the viewers were the people who watched and said see there's dignity in that how important it is to put your hand up the bull's ass it's kind of critical because that's where you insert the probe that stimulates the prostate that ultimately triggers the ejaculate which allows you to artificially inseminate hundred gals you take artificial insemination out of modern agriculture and McDonald's isn't feeding billions and billions right science I'm not going to happen so you know that show was a hot mess it was a scatological Rob it was exploding toilets and misadventures and animal husbandry but we were always able to find a peripatetic moment either for me I mean that was really my job you know it wasn't a host I was more of this avakov a gas sharing you know and so it was very very liberating not to have to tell the viewer the truth of the thing you know not to be judged one of the correctors we were talking about but rather try it as an apprentice were on the fifth day and be the best maybe you're right maybe wrong what do you think when people say things like oh yeah I watch your show with my kids so I can tell them what happens if he doesn't go to college I mean that at some point if I were in your shoes then I would I would be annoyed by that you can't maybe you can't afford to be I mean the very jobs first and foremost was an entertainment proposition so when people stop me because they know me or they want to talk about the show I I've never looked at them as fans I've looked at them as my boss you know so when your boss stops you to talk about your work very freaking listen yeah I like it but you have to listen you know I used to tell the story in Newark I got off a plane I was walking through the terminal and the first guy that stopped me he was on a ladder up in the ceiling you know and he came down from the ceiling and said hey gran I just tell you my wife and my kids and I we watch your show and it's just so great because I can I can show them opportunities that they didn't know existed and I can use what you're doing as proof positive that that opportunity is not dead and then 15 feet later I kind of Brooks Brothers suit stopping Wall street-type you know they said ran out of the tank watch watch your show with the wife and kids every Tuesday it's so much fun you're very funny and I can point to my kids and say see see what happens if you don't go to college and so but in the end that's the service yeah it seems like the boss analogy works great because in truth if you treat fans like they owe you something you won't haven't them very long but we like circuses right and you're and then you're in trouble why are you always running towards the thing that makes you uncomfortable I mean that's that's something you've mentioned and some of your posts and in some of the shows why is that sort of a personal model well it's not really I mean to be honest in real life you know it doesn't reform by every position but in TV it does because in TV I believe certainly in 2001 the Discovery Channel was completely reliant on a nonfiction model that elevated the host and the expert to a level of absolute privacy right so if you saw somebody on Discovery it was because they knew what they were doing they knew what they were talking about it could it be could be Jacque Cousteau it could be David Attenborough you know it didn't matter but fundamentally they were an arbiter of accuracy in the wake of that my feeling was they had an opportunity to be an arbiter of authenticity it's a different model does our host it requires a guest it doesn't require an expert it requires an apprentice so the idea of saying look I want to do a show that fundamentally challenges the underlying perception you have of your own brand that's a tough sell but they gave a try to their credit because dirty jobs is still fundamentally ruining curiosity so we're still satisfied curiosity but I had assumed this different sort of mode you know this is the cypher of sorts and I changed everything and it just means I didn't have to ever be right did you come up with those kind of rules for the grading process or was that something with a look we need somebody is going to do it this way he knows math well it certainly wasn't that and as much as I'd like to tell you that all this is the results of a well executed plan I kind of Forrest Gump to my way into it I knew I didn't want to be held to the same standards as a host and I've been freelancing as a host for 15 years before that here in San Francisco evening magazine you know that's what I did for 10-12 years I would go out and I would host the show from a restaurant or a winery or someplace and you know hosts and reporters there there with respect you know they're empty suits commodities and selling a calendar what we're interchangeable I mean why do you imagine the news looks the way it looks in every market why does FM radio sound the way of salads in every market you know what so once you codify the system and then you start putting humans in it all they can really do to find certainty in their life is is something derivative they have to imitate something that they saw before that makes sense their brain sure so pretty soon all the DJ's don't like that yeah right I mean what what the hell is that why does that happen well as a host I was doing the same thing you know I said Francisco Mike wrote here tonight I don't even Isaac blah blah I listened to those old tapes I'm like Jesus what are you doing yeah a little painful what are you doing why are you wearing makeup why do you look at a prompter and read it in an attempt to convince someone you're not reading it it's yeah it does make that barrier dog fences so anyway all of that sort of informed the first episodes of Dirty Jobs and once people started to watch it it it became for sale why is the emphasis on authenticity man this is something that we focus on at AOC all the time it's all about authenticity becoming more authentic trying to ditch the performance aspect of things even the show that I do all the time the intro if nothing is going to be scripted because it just comes across as plastic and people want to get to know nowadays people want to get to know you it's not 1940 radio where you're a disembodied talking voice or or a TV host with the evening magazine it seems like you swam upstream in some ways trying to become authentic in a market that wasn't necessarily thinking that they wanted at the time yeah I did but don't confuse it with like bravery or foresight I swam with the salmon I was going to say it a salmon field is well well before Dirty Jobs I was I I was right in the middle of a herd you know I was it took me 15 years of sort of mastering my toolbox you know and understanding what worked and what could get me paid you know I was basically paid to impersonate a host for 15 years and I became a facile at it you know I was never I was never properly acquisitive I never wanted to be the kind of Tom Bergeron and you know Tom hit it big as a host I never you know I went as far as I wanted to go as a host Dick Clark hired me I worked for a lot of guys but to me the most interesting thing doing the traditional route was to approach hosting and TV like a tradesman would a project so short-term small bites don't get stuck with a hit God knows you want a hit then then you're going to be you know you're just something for everything so yeah I felt really smart and clever for about 15 years working on jobs and pride X that were so doomed so so poorly conceived that no amount of lunker talent could possibly salvage them I would attach myself to those projects essentially like the Titanic looking for an iceberg you know and and I knew they would fail but I would do the best work I could and so I never took heat for it and in that way I was able to work and take a lot of time off and and feel all clever about it 30 thousands to miss consolation when you accidentally made something that people really liked that went on for a long time yeah yeah I made a deal with the network that allowed me to narrate their big tent pole shows you know like planet Earth and big big brand friendly shows and go on these various expeditions and they said let's do something you know to introduce you to the viewer and I pitched what was at the time called somebody's got to do it which I did here in Midtown and they said well let's call it Dirty Jobs and see if anybody cares they had no idea anybody would watch and they were horrified when they did to tell you the truth lie for the same reason the GOP was horrified when Donald Trump was standing in the middle of that stage for the same reason because there's a cognitive dissonance and big brands hate that so discovery in 2004 this shone on the year 2003 it rated through the roof they took it off it was off-brand it scared the heck out of them I went back to going to Alaska and Egypt and doing these other shows but then about eight months later this cry you can't make us up they hired that Steve Irwin and had a Mythbusters they had a bunch of new talent a bunch of old talent and they wanted to get a sense they had like 18 new shows of development so they sent them all to Vegas and locked like 500 people in the room for a week and made them watch everything big focus group okay somebody somebody at Discovery took an old episode of 30 jobs off the shelf and threw it in this pile of stuff really just as fodder you know the results after the focus group were were deeply disturbing to people in the business of predicting results ever Dirty Jobs was by far the number one show and I was rated very very favorably as a host which in my world is avatar guests like so that's that's when they ordered the series what were you thinking when they said look we want to do more dirty jobs were you laid it or were you like crap I don't want to have to be stuck but on this it was very much a careful you wish work moment because remember my contract you know it had three one-hour versions of jobs and then all the other stuff that we really made the deal for that's where the focus was you know dirty jobs happen because my mother called me here in San Francisco she was in Baltimore and my granddad was 91 or 92 at the time oh wow he was dying this is a guy who can like build a house without a blueprint you know he was my inspirations kid and I wanted to follow in his footsteps you know look at the seventh grade but master electrician plumber steam fitter pipe fitter not a lot of mechanic right so he dying and she calls and says Michael it would be so nice if your grandfather could turn on the TV before you before he goes and see something that looks like work perfectly to see you do something that looks like work so that's why I started and is very personal I was doing jobs that I knew might make my grandfather laugh but of course that's exactly why I worked because when it aired people saw those jobs said oh man you should talk to my brother sister uncle cousin grandfather dad mom right and it just this became very very relatable overnight and so when they ordered more I was flattered that people would like it but that show was hard right you can't cheat on that show on that the big advantage I had was I didn't have to be competent and I didn't have to be correct but I had to try which means so you shoot from sunup to sundown and sometimes you're swinging a sometimes you're dangling from the bridge and sometimes you tested the shark suit you know sometimes you're making big rocks at Little Rock's you got to be in it otherwise yes you just look like it's like Entertainment Tonight where they're standing in front of the video playing behind them you've got to stand up on the wind power staying in the wind with a guy going oh yeah don't step back any further and it's like you should maybe said that five steps ago to you go in the hole yeah you don't talk about what's at the bottom of the opal mineshaft you go in the chat you know you have to you have to go to where the work is and so that was the great trade and the beauty of dirty jobs you know I I had one job to try to try my best and that right under that was savings that would amuse your best friend if you guys were watching this together so most of what I said was an attempt to use myself and most of what I did was an attempt to keep up your very anti roll my which is one of the reasons why I think it's a as you would say is which is one of reasons I'd like a really great set for the show because cliches and these little bits of advice and things like that are that are meaningless in my opinion are things you like to pick apart and that we like to pick apart and sort of shoot the platitude down dissect the frog and find out that it has no guts to do and I think one of the most common bromides that we hear especially my generation in my field of with the Entrepreneurship field or whatever you hear these things like follow your passion follow your guts all your dreams don't ever quit I know that you don't agree with that as much as I also have done agree with that that's my pet peeve as well look anytime conventional wisdom anytime wisdom becomes conventional and then written on a piece of parchment and then framed in some cheap mahogany and then hung in some godforsaken conference room that's that's where you've crossed over you know now you have a platitude of bromide a trope and you know it's a people are so desperate to have a playbook that they gravitate toward one but of course it doesn't exist and following your passion we did a special on dirty jobs called the dirty truth or essentially a walk through an old office building and hung all of my least-favorite bromides on the wall and then and then essentially you know tore them apart one at a time using dirty-jobbers as as proof you know to contradict the conventional wisdom never follow your passion sorry always follow your passion was the was the first one I remember there was it was like a rainbow and a flower or like maybe some butterflies a waterfall that I don't know what the hell it's on correct passionate waterfalls and butterflies but this idea you know whether it's in work or in romance you know the idea that your happiness is contingent upon finding the job that will make you happy your dream job for instance it's not so different than finding the girl that will make you happy no your soulmate one knot of seven billion yeah she's out dying for you she's out there and if you're not really enjoying your life right now you just have to find good it'll be okay right you know having a bad day at work excite you wouldn't would you you need your dream job you know so so never ever give up on your passion that's what we tell good people and look there there are times when it's excellent advice there are times when it's the worst advice in the world and that's why you know it becomes a sacred cow that's fun to push against I remember you know American Idol has to be one of the most amazing shows ever there's so much about it I hate but one of the things about it but I loved was early in the season the early auditions or they go to a town and and thousands of people show up thousands of people show up following their passion they've always wanted to be a singer a pop star and they're going to give it a shot and it's not alarming that they can't sing what's alarming is that they discover it so often for the very first time on national television at 20 years old their whole life they've been told look if you want it bad enough it's going to work out if you're passionate about it it's going to work out you're my precious little boy you're going to be great go for it go get them I just think it's a massive disservice to tell people that the proximate cause of their vocational ambience is contingent upon their ability to never change course I can't agree more I mean I think the fact that we are telling the young people this is especially alarming because when they get older when we get older I shouldn't accept myself from any of this when we get older and we find out the hard way depending on how I guess plastic you are with you the ability to adapt to the truth you can find yourself in a world of hurt you can find yourself in a real world or even if you're a good hard worker and you can outwork people that are smarter than you which was my competitive advantage growing up essentially you still find yourself swimming with sharks when you're a lawyer and you go oh my god not only do I not want this but I worked so hard to get here and maybe your passion ships there were a lot of people in my class who thought I want to be a lawyer for sure and two years later they're emailing me hey are you hiring yeah because this is terrible so even when you get what you want you're not always going to call it your passion there's a terrible inertia around passion and really just around living you know way leads on to way as Frost said I love that because it indicates a crooked road you know but this idea real inertia that just pushes you further and further down the path that you're on and so if you're not sure what you want to do with your life and you're 18 years old well do that problem because society today is going to tell you you need to decide and then they're going to say well you need to go to school and then they're going to say not just any school you need to get a four-year degree so you decide at 18 or 20 or whatever it was I'm going to be a lawyer where'd you go well actually I went to undergrad at Michigan and then I try to get a job at Best Buy and they were they said no you have to sell CDs you can't you can't build shooters even though I was building appears at the time for neighbors and friends they said you gotta sell CDs first and then you can move up later and I thought well the answer to this is clearly more education yeah so then I applied to law school and I went to Michigan law and I thought I don't really want to be a lawyer but more education is for sure the way to get around that you know I'll be able to do anything with this great law degree what it cost you about let's see counting undergrad plus grad at least two hundred thousand dollars minimum so there it is you're how old at this point we know uh when I got out of law school twenty-six years old I graduated with a just soul-crushing amount of debt this is what we're doing to our kids and it kills me because why in the world would anybody ever be forced to decide what they have to do when they're 20 years old it's I'm still figuring it out there and it's just an unhealthy unrealistic unnecessary amount of pressure that pressure becomes inertia because once you decide then you declare a major and now you've written the first check and then the first semester is buying it in the second alright so now with every passing day it's harder and harder to call an audible go you know something maybe I'm pissing up a rope here maybe this isn't for me but no 30 grand 50 grand 80 grand a hundred 121 six bang bang two hundred thousand dollars in the hole looking for a job now as you described in a shark tank that now those jobs don't even exist any that don't exist but the real the thing that kills me the most isn't the fact that you know people have to live with the consequences of their decision but it's the money it's the debt and it's the pressure to borrow an unlimited amount of money we were 1.3 trillion dollars in the hole 1.3 trillion there is by no metric anywhere that I've seen a shortage of lawyers but they're 5.8 million jobs right now that exist that people are trained for that don't require for your degree and they're sitting and so we're so completely out of whack with the opportunities for encouraging and the opportunities that exist surprisingly none of those five point three or five point eight million jobs that exist where none of those were discussed with us in our orientation at the university no because to our earlier point those jobs are optically cautionary tales now very very few people very few parents who didn't work in the skilled trades go to bed at night thinking gosh I sure hope Johnny turns out to be a plumber or a welder don't wish it for them guidance counselor's don't wish it for them that doesn't a guy's going through our program welding they get over hundred grand a year it just can't get their stories out when people read a little believable and when they believe them they still go ahead that looks really hard yeah sure so you know it's it's a it's a problem it's a mindset it's societal and it's systemic so follow your fashion the word is on the script the verdict of this it seems like is you're just not a fan of that little single barium swallow advice thank you for that word by the way I've got to get back in the lexicon Thank You Harold the art of charm if we do nothing else could we introduce dingleberry yes the vernacular you know I think we can take some credit for that no I would never simply go out and say all passion is is no good you know I would never say don't follow your passion what I said was don't follow your passion but always bring it with you because the truth is why in the world would you want to do anything you weren't passionate about see how I'm dirty jobs' example after example this is the reverse community this is the Sabbath we're talking about you know the salmon aren't following their passion although they are trying to spawn I suppose so you can make a case for it but some passion and there's some passion but when I when I think about you know like the septic tank workers I met there was a guy in the first season les Swanson was his name up in Wisconsin yeah you know I wound up at a tank with him one of these pumping stations on the side of the road like up to our nipples and other people's felt knocking cholesterol off the side of the walls in about 120 degree it was it was truly Hayes okay and I and I looked at him at one point I said let me ask you something man what did you live what did you do before the side of this happening they said I would say I was guidance counselor in high school and then I was a psychologist and and I said you you've got to be kidding me why in the world why this without meaning without missing a beat he said I think I'm dealing with other people but you know aside from the obvious laugh line the joke is really on the rest of us because you know back to his house at the end of the day his summer house Karen by the pool with a margarita machine in his two trucks and his five employees and you know once again a guy doing a thing most people don't want to do creating not just a job for himself but a business and his whole rap to me was look I this was never mind wish fulfillment but I got to a point when I said what let's just put the opportunity before what I want or what I even think I want and look there's a again I don't want to say it with certainty because then it will sound like a bromide but the idea when I say the reverse to you what I mean is start with the opportunity figure out how to be great at it and then figure out how to love it so the passion comes from becoming great at your craft yeah we're deciding that you're going to love it look I mean I know that sounds good and this is a this is a bit of a stretch but why why are the divorce rates among arranged marriages so much lower than in the West yeah I mean there's a lot of theories about that but I think the reason is because in cultures well one of the reasons is because in cultures where they have those arranged marriages there they realized look this comes before the love part and the love part comes into the marriage later we build that through hard work instead of just hoping that it falls from the sky again either so that's you know I don't need to say that anybody can marry anybody live we ever after chemistry matters you know that thing we call passion like that basic attraction that basic willingness to do a job that has to be there but this idea that that person is responsible for your happiness or the bad job is responsible for your your success that's a non-starter that's trap you hit the big time if I can throw that word around they're relatively late for a lot of showbiz people were you this all hit often what you're really for these memories are 44 when jobs actually went on the air yeah progressively and I assume that's not what you'd hope not what you planned we kind of touched on that - what do you attribute that if not well I'm following my passion the TV thing or were you doing just that and happen to work out again it there is a real element of Forrest Gump regatta and this you know but I come to a point in my life where I was actually my my smugness with respect to my business plan regarding touching everything like it's hot right like I was doing infomercials a lot of them I was doing guest spots on soap operas I was you know doing animated projects I it didn't matter I didn't care what it was and I didn't want to know what it was none of them was Germany I just wanted to get paid and do good work and then forget about it and the truth is that can only last you back to passion you know this is I didn't have enough my passion was in figuring out an overall lifestyle and congratulating myself for having five months of a year where I could do stuff I really care about the switch that flipped on dirty jobs just meant that there was no more time off so now the thing I'm working on it has to satisfy both a bank account and it has to satisfy my time which is now completely consuming and and I have to love it you know so I didn't have to work hard to love it because there was enough contrariness in the show like you know again Here I am remember back to the GOP and discovery I'm the guy at Discovery with the show that discovery does not want you to like you know in the same way that geo please look at those 17 people on stage going yeah look we think we'll this is the Jeb Bush show we want you to like him and maybe maybe maybe that guy over there and maybe hurt anybody but if it's not the guy in the middle dirty jobs for the first season really was like that and it was so much fun to go to work every day and know that I was in this this place of a real cognitive dissonance there's a fun show to promote was a fun show to do and it just gave me permission really to weigh in on any kind of work because we tried it all so dirty jobs with the Donald Trump on Discovery Channel look man that your words not mine but it was one of the many look and there have been others since 32 shows have come out of 30 jobs if you can draw a straight line back to the garbage pickers in that Alachua of Swamp People Ice Road Truckers all that stuff ax men you know that those were all segments on on dirty jobs even duck dynasty yes right now the duck dynasty fundamentally different format but all of a sudden duck dynasty shows up on A&E no one knows I mean what it was confusing enough of dogs at Bamiyan here's the organ version I take all right sure so this tension between brand and program and brands who fall deeply in love with their own Rome Idol version of themselves always interest me because that's when they're most well that's what it was vulnerable you know so the GOP knew exactly who their constituents were going to vote for except they were totally wrong the Discovery News nobody would watch a show with a middle-aged smart aleck they can poop jokes in the sewer we're all ups now what better stick your hand up a cow's butt yeah season 12 still reaching into mares because you have every season it's rather I made the mistake of watching the lamb testicles episode shortly before prepping for this and I was one of the most memorable episodes at least for me because it causes this a role fetal position standing sort of I don't know what you convulsion but not just one not not repeated convulsion just kind of a dry new day you recoiled and recoiled yeah well it's it's normal you know when a anytime someone removes the testicles from a creature with you know with their teammate testicles yeah yeah yeah you have to you know you have to step back and take stock it was that was probably one of the most important episodes we did like that because it was my first attempt to do everything right you know I mean I had had this really passive-aggressive relationship with the network they were getting flooded with complaints from OSHA and Humane Society and PETA and we sort of had this date on you know and we're going to keep the show going but I'm going to be a better team player right so I go in I say look I want to do this story on landing you know I'm going to do all the parts of landing and whether that's going to be castration and I said well what's that involved and I said well let me tell you what I did I called the Humane Society and PETA they like told me the same thing they said the approved method of removing the testicles from the lamb is to take a rubber band and put it around its sack thereby retarding the flow of blood to the testicles and then if they turn black over a couple days and then they fall off I'm like oh my god really like that's so that's the PETA proof waiting like yeah that's the way we do it and I said okay now in my mind I'm thinking this is you know visually this will be good to you weird but I've never put a rubber band on the testicles of anything my species are area hamish so you get there you know and we face we get all the lambs together and we start the process and Albert the rancher he pulls out a knife and he grabs the scrotum between his thumb and his finger he pulls it toward it and he cuts the tip off the scrotum and then he pushes it back and he's too pink thumbs and words from this fleshy sac before I could stop ever do anything just bends down and he bites them and he snaps his head back and rips him out by the root here comes that singular yeah both sexes ugly but imagine me I got three cameras roll here and I'm standing here thinking you know something I could this is not what this channel has in mind so I'm like you know okay stop Albert stop you're doing this thing right that people do in reality TV you're trying to shock me hamming it up yeah yeah and he's you know he was a great guy big old mustache his wife elevated two of them are just like leave them what you talk about like you can't make the balls on the sheet through were a family show in sort of 20 countries because what do you want us to tell they use the rubber bands Oh rubber bands something well yeah the rubber bands said okay so we put another sheep up there and melodies spreads legs however goes in puts on the rubber band with a special device that you know widens it and then put him over the scrub I could still see the head anyway to put the lamb down on the on the ground and he looks at me exactly with the exact expression you have if you were lamb it had a very tight rubber band around your nut sometimes it's troubling and he staggers takes a couple of steps away and then stops and looks back in the other shoulder and then he walks to the corner of the pen makes a circle and then just lies down and starts quitter oh and I say that more like Jesus how long is this it I was just going to go on he'll be in hell for about two and half days nice terrible meanwhile the one he had just you know bit down on yeah prancing around this is literally two minutes later not a care in the world no blood you know hang out with his mom and trotting around so that episode was important because right there on international television we had proof that you know the business of being in compliance but not out of danger that all that stuff returned on four track there it is I went to the expert I was told precisely how this works precisely what to do and I was absolutely wrong no way Albert had been doing it for generations was kind into the animal it was more efficient in the field you needed two people instead of three there's a long list of logical reasons to bite the balls off sheet it's actually more sanitary to if you can believe it because I how can that be true because dude those testicles they're anything called the scrotum they've ever been I was right here and say yeah you don't linger down there you get out you get it out poof Bob's your uncle so anyway you know a pair of idiot yes it was a pair of pathetic moment where you realize once again everything I thought I knew about removing the nuts from a lamb was wrong what else am I wrong about and if you can ask yourself that question honestly and the things you're going to find answers I'm sure yeah I'm sure it's biting the testicles off of land is wrong I don't want to be right he should get a t-shirt a t-shirt or a hat or goes placidly why did you insist on doing the show in one take that even that room I heard you do in one take yeah I mean we could look back specials where I was actually doing a version of rats you know and I would occasionally circle back and get those and we of course we shot lots and lots of footage that was never used sure so you see outtakes at the end of the show that's always what that is but I insisted on two things the first was never a second take because the second take by definition has to be a performance right Sharon you're just redoing something that happened but it or it slightly to the left right or whatever yeah or you know clean up your language you stuttered a little bit there some old craft direction thing that's a that's what TV does take two three four five ten fifteen until somebody somewhere says ha it's perfect that it's perfect but it's a performance so I wanted the show to be a love-letter to take one that was that was the thing and you know the argument was well what if we have a technical problem what if a plane flies over I said huh I don't care so we got a thing called the truth camp which was just an extra camera man with a behind-the-scenes camera who always stayed wide so if Doug's camera broke or toys or toys or somebody said I had a problem I could always turn in the truth can step out of the scene and sort of narrator chronicled the issue ranked and so you know we didn't use it in every singing but we use them in every show and toward toward the end we used it we relied upon it because that camera proved this was before you saw behind the singing cher sucker right and so so the second thing was tied to that it was need the crew in the show I need the crew in the show and I don't they don't need to be the same crew it doesn't matter but we're in the process of shooting Michelle you know and so to pretend that we're not that's a that's a fundamental affliction with the viewer so the best way to make sure that take one is used is to contemporaneously make sure the crew is allowed to be in the shot in that way no Jon say I got to shoot it again because I got you know I got Troy's leg or I got you know Jones's boom was it the shock of his balloon to the shot you know when Isildur we're up on the Mackinac Bridge 600 feet up you know changing nuts amazing the what matters you know what matters is the it's not the shot it's a work speaking of the super shot when you're in the sewer in San Francisco these I don't know these super old little brick round tunnels the episode with there's a brat that like crawls over your leg or something like that and you just kind of freak out a little bit and I thought why does it stink in sewer rat that cracks the heretofore impenetrable micro veneer and cool um you're talking about a seed that's cut into the open of the show goes by about a second the truth is that episode was the first one we did and and that moment that moment was it was that's something I talk about all the time around the country when when people ask my my transformation my peripeteia from a host to a guest happened in the sewers of San Francisco I was trying to host evening magazine down there the very first episode of somebody's got to do it which obtained dirty jobs that's me and the sewer trying to look to the camera and and welcome the viewer into the sewer but at every turn I was forwarded you know I was thwarted by a lateral that exploded next to my head and covered my cameraman with crap and the side of my face I was bored like roaches the size of my thumbs thousands tens of thousands of them everywhere and in the final moment that rat appeared on my shoulder there's a big rat that's like the size of a loaf right yeah mr. Branton oh you bad editing and it goes you know dope off my shoulder into my own into my lap and I was wearing these thigh high hip boots and if you if you squat down at thigh high happens they gap right so the rat gives it a gap and starts burrowing in a southbound shot man I jump up scream hit my head on the ceiling a shower of roaches comes down I fall faced forward into this fast-moving chocolate time truly disappointing a flu view and and you know face-first then you know I push myself up and I spit something out of my mouth it never should have been my mouth and I turn to the guy I was working with Jean Cruz and and he said in that moment the thing that changed my career he said when you're done screwing around with the local wildlife once you come over here give me a hand so that's what I did rather the host the show we replace Rhonda Prix in the sewers of San Francisco I was watching that episode and another one of the airplane recently and uh this woman three rows are two rows behind me goes I've seen this guy before how did you keep this fingernails clean that's what a Publix I don't know how can you keep your fingernails but I mean how do you go to dinner after that and go man I'm yeah that's a you know I mean look when you're when we were shooting that show it really truly was a was a band of brothers kind of thing we didn't go to nice places we stayed in Motel 6's we stayed at super rates we stayed at hotels with numbers in the title you know and I don't mean like if you see a number in the title of a black horse even like milkman or school if I if the number is spelled out right though you are great but if it's the for the number for no don't go in there you know the super 8 the motel 6 you know numbers for whatever reason don't scream you know 5-star luxury but I lived a super 8 and I'm motel 6 for years shooting that show and I can't tell you how many times not to your point about dinner but just now you come back to the room and you just smell like ass or something were always I leave my clothes and my shoes in the cub I would sign a headshot and leave 20 bucks and a letter of apology for today because I I couldn't take them home you know there's no way I could take those oh you left them there for the hoes only ass yeah yeah no that's what I say I haven't bought I have about close in 15 years you know I really haven't they were all just it's just like skin extra skin not my own so very combo till six and you saw a Fifi is covered or worse covered pair of jeans and boots and a headshot you wonder and who the squiggly autograph alone knows who it was my brother was ways but tasteful letter of apology to the lady pound my cash celebrities get a lot of perks and we have free food free travel free clothing a lot of my shows fans wanted to know what the biggest perk was but I seem to recall you being granted some special VIP porta-potty privileges on short notice are you talking about the show or are you talking about a very disapoint what you took yesterday I went for a jog back when I used to care about exercising this was probably seven years ago I left my apartment in Cal hollow I jogged across the Golden Gate Bridge is what you thought I'm like yeah I wanted to get a rare glimpse into the lives of the encounter class with this one so what happened for me was I jogged across the Golden Gate and you know I've done my normal routine in the morning I had a grande you know not a grande what's the big limit NT then ya big old yeah I had as much coffee as you can sanely drink and I had a big old breakfast and - past couple of days had been not not struggling but aware of some disappointment in my lower GI tract nothing that would preclude me from taking a job but was aware of it anyway all when it was a beautiful day I jogged across the bridge I was halfway back and it felt like an ice pick was stabbed into my lower abdomen a couple steps later I felt I felt it again and it knocked the wind out of me and I might might my knees buckled and it was so horrible you know I all I could think of was God and it itself it all comes down to the o-ring you know it's like like the gasket to get the dignity of the species it all just comes down to your ability to control this tiny little sphincter and I'm doing the math in my head you know at this point I'm two miles from home and it's like labor pains the stabbing is now coming like every 90 seconds so if I run seven miles an hour two miles away 20 minutes you know I'm just not like an editor I'm not like any of the numbers but I got to get off the bridge because you know a b-list celebrity who soils himself on a national monument that's the kind of that's the kind of press you don't write and don't me you don't recover from that too easily I got off the bridge I came around the the Presidio and and I realize how am I going to make it I'm not going to make it I'm the ultimate humiliation is going to happen right there on Lombard and I walk right around the corner on Scott and I I honestly don't know what I was going to do I didn't know if I was just going to and there quietly and crying my pants were actually pull my pants down and then I didn't know what to do yeah it was I mean I'd lost my peripheral vision I was hearing a buzzing in my ears like nothing mattered except except keeping that damn o-ring closed but like from Providence you know there was three construction workers putting in amazingly a sewer line and they had a porta potty next to them and it was locked because in San Francisco you shared a lot the portable somebody live in there yeah people were dying to get in those so I said I'm taking point I did not anything you know I didn't have any money on me or anything I just said guys quite guide please get in here I think I looked at he said hey you're that guy yeah I'm like please move it quickly he opened that thing I got in there and I mean it was as close as close could be but it just sounded like Bastille Day you know and I came out they were waiting for me with their cameras I know so three selfies with three soups workers and it really saved whatever dignity I have left at this point but completely safely my three self is a small price to pay and I paid anything okay are you okay with the fact that your role models of so many people I mean intentionally or unintentionally through Facebook television doesn't matter is that changes your behavior at all in real life or online not my behavior but it's changed my well I guess it has I guess yeah you know I mean you it's a it's odd because so much about 30 Jobs was subversive and and so you know but that was ten years ago I'm not sure how funny it is for you know for me to be as silly and irreverent as I was I mean I run a foundation now and I designed the things now so I you know I constantly people don't really know exactly yet what the default position is for me like I'm his podcast I'm Doren chair right what I heard I did one the other day on on the guy who a famous I don't want to give it away right but the guy who vented a famous food and he was a preacher Reverend and his entire world was her Lance against masturbation yes right so I I told the story of this man and the way his beliefs informed his diet and the way his followers ultimately adhered to what it was he was getting at but in the course of telling the story you have to say the word masturbate like 50 times right sir and I didn't want to do that because it should it's a little crass well you know it's it's not crass it's just the problem is it's neither crass nor proper its clinical sure sure so it's like testicles today make people weirder than balls right right it's like there's something horrible about the specificity of it so I just came up with every euphemism there was you know cork in your own batter polishing the sphere burp of the worm or whatever you call it smell nice in sauce you know there's a thousand of them and these get peppered through the entire thing well you know my podcast is patterned after the late great Paul Harvey would really never talk about spilling once he even stew and so on so I got a lot of calls people go hey maybe maybe maybe not so much with the you know the best rating really I we listen to that one several times you would yeah yeah you gotta turn eldest they're dirty couple and and she would she would close and go wait okay I get this one what is what does this one mean I mean we we knew that they meant that and I'm explaining the physics of like corking that about red apple yeah look this is killin my goal with that podcast I have several but but bringing young lovers closer together as their you know their nuptials approach through short stories front with self-abuse that's certainly an aspirational goal a consummation devoutly to be wish'd top three purpose of the show for sure yeah we'll link to the show in the show notes well for people who are listening to this and one of those in my grave like Jasmine tell us about the foundation as well tell us what you're doing that and why it's important personal um it's called micro works it evolved out of dirty jobs in 2008 as you might recall the kind the economy kind of you know correct but I remember I got laid out best thing that ever happened to me I just want to on this man so interesting it by 2009 unemployment is nine ten eleven percent all over the country every single day that's the headline every single day all these people can't find work and the narrative became it's because opportunities dead on dirty jobs everywhere I went in every single state I saw help wanted signs you know just everywhere I mean all 50 states and I just started to feel like you know I think maybe I think maybe there's another narrative unfolding here that nobody writes about and you don't have to dig far back in 2009 there were 2.3 million jobs were wide open skills gap and it was an inconvenient truth for the prevailing narrative because how can opportunity be dead if companies can't find 2.3 million people to do the jobs they have clearly opportunities not dead something else is so micro works began as a PR campaign really to call attention to jobs that actually existed and that's really all it was ever supposed to be but then fans and shows started writing in all these apprenticeships on-the-job training programs and things that existed in their state so we built a trade Resource Center where anybody to go in 2009 10 and 11 and and see what opportunities in their state exist that you're never going to hear about a relay and then we started awarding work-ethic scholarships the people we wanted to avail themselves to those opportunities so I started putting the arm on big companies I started selling crap out of my garage collectibles rare and precious see our APA acronym for our crab-walk students you know kind of a throwback to my old QVC days and and we raised and gave away close to four million dollars so far in these work ethic scholarships so it's a.m. and I hate to say legacy because it sounds so precious but it micro works involved out of dirty jobs its main function today is to provide work ethic scholarships and make his persuasive the case we can as we can for the jobs that actually exist w-what kind of jobs exist that that people weren't finding that seemed in welding and same sort of trades that we were discussing before you start with welding I mean you know I worked with a school in a southern Illinois called MTI they got a call from Newport News anchor so Ram shipbuilders you know how many can you get us this month yeah we got fifty how many of you need 800 oh my goodness so is that yeah it's all day long all day long if you're if it's not we we think about work and we think about jobs in this country like you know they're these static things that exist in a vacuum jobs might but opportunity is not that and so many of these jobs require you to do a couple of things that I really had a favor like like retool retraining reboot but mostly relocate you know it's not they're not right there necessarily waiting for you and it's really you know not to bash on Millennials by any stretch because whatever bad thing you have to say about it it's a simply product to the people to raise but sure yeah absolutely but this this idea that the job of your dreams first of all the idea that it even exists is fascinating the idea that exists at a pay rate that will satisfy your lifestyle is doubly fascinating and the idea that it will exist at a pay rate that satisfies your lifestyle in your current zip code is is the height of from anthis but that's what you know and so people expect a lot of the time I run into it all the time I'm yeah look this opportunity sounds great but we wanted to do move sure gas soon can you get here I got dozens of people to do it everyone you wanted to go to the Gulf yeah yeah that's where they're making $140 an hour right now welding Wow yeah so yeah you got to go there and here's the thing it's hot it's hot and it's cold up there it's not you know we're not in San Francisco this is what you're right yeah where often is cold and hot at the time sometimes in the same day double so you know we we hold work ethic scholarships because we make our applicants make a case for themselves you know you've got it like a video you got to write an essay you got to provide references going to sign a sweat pledge wrote a sweat pledge 12-point statement of belief one night after I drank a bottle of wine you know if you're not willing to sign it then it's entirely possible to spoiler-free money may not be for you before we read like I've got a story for you the format may seem a little familiar this is based on a letter from the fan of the show one mr. Matt can easy who found out through our boot campus school that we run in LA that I'd be interviewing you and I thought you might appreciate this the letter reads as follows dear Jordan Congrats on interviewing microbe however I've been harboring a secret vendetta against micro for years I think once you've read this you'll understand why in fact I'm quite interested in what he has to say for himself if you get a chance to tell him the following story in the year 2010 I was the intended recipient of a pair of World Series Game one tickets courtesy of the company from which I worked originally my friend's father one of the company's executives had planned to go but the last minute something came up and the tickets were once again available I called my friend to see if he was up for the trip if we could somehow play hooky from work and pull it off but by the time I went to claim the tickets I was informed they were already gone after a bit of prying my friend's father told me that he had given them to his friend Mike Rowe who already lived in San Francisco I of course objected on two counts one it was not made clear that the ticket lottery was open to anyone outside the company and two I'm sure if Mike Rowe wanted to go to the game he could have got his own damn tickets it's important to note that I harbor no ill will toward micro in fact my wife and I only donate to the micro works foundation every year because it's the only organization we can both agree to give money to sign met but there's more all over met hey Jordan quick update hope this makes it in time first I've called my father to get more details for you and it seems that the story about micro getting those World Series tickets is actually not true as it turns out the tickets were actually given to the brother of the CEO the reason he told everyone that he gave them to micro is because everyone thinks so highly of Mike nobody would be angry about him being the recipient of the tickets in other words the tickets were sniped and he used micro as a cover to make that happen sorry for the confusion I guess you don't have a story from micro after all and I apologize for that but Oh contraire mr. Panucci because Mike as it turns out this time you were recruited for one final dirty job the filthiest of them all serving as a scapegoat for a ticket console perpetrated by a mattress company executive and executives when a past life served in another highly esteemed position that of your college roommate mr. Mike Thompson anyway that's the way I heard agree Mike Thompson unbelievable so I meant did that from that's not from like time this is from Mike Thompson's kids friend who happened to be a fan of the art of charm and I said I'm interviewing Mike Rowe and he goes I got a bone to pick with that guy good grief that was a long run for a short slide a heavy both my Thompson's kid goes to Bucknell I think so his friend probably does too I don't know but that's a hard you know what to say to that except that last time I heard Mike Thompson's name well we we talked a couple years ago reached out of the blue but he was a guy he sort from Black & Decker in Baltimore Maryland and this guy was he was he was a freak of nature he looked like he fell off a Wheaties box and he also looked like every quarterback for every winning college team you've ever seen and I always I always look at him with something akin to make it envy I'm a geek always an adventure business for you Mike like thanks for coming on 28 it thank you [Music] you

Channel: Art of Charm

Views: 30,041

Rating: 4.8333335 out of 5

Keywords: The Art of Charm, Art of Charm, AoC, AJ and Jordan Harbinger, charm, confidence, charisma, success, relationships, motivation, attraction, business, story telling, storytelling, banter, rapport, leadership, comfort zone, limiting beliefs, self confidence, self-confidence, The Way I Heard It, Dirty Jobs, Mike Rowe, skills gap, employment, unemployment, trade school, Anagnorisis, Peripeteia, niche, Discovery Channel, mikeroweWORKS, Somebody’s Gotta Do It, education, college

Id: PtG9yLIEdvY

Length: 73min 19sec (4399 seconds)

Published: Fri May 12 2017