MIKE MENTZER: THE COMPLETE INTERVIEW (1991)

foreign [Music] [Music] once again to Cable Sports my name is Anthony Powell and as always I'm joined here by my co-host Bill Shulman the focus of our show is a little bit different today as you know we usually discuss a plethora and I know you didn't know I had that large of a vocabulary a plethora of sports topics today we're going to be focusing on the world of bodybuilding and of athletic body training and to do that we have a former Mr America and Mr Universe Mike mentzer who is now an athletic trainer at Gold's Gym in Venice and Mike has also written three books on bodybuilding and along with Bill Mike I'd like to welcome you to the show thank you Anthony okay and I guess a logical point would be to start with how did you first learn about bodybuilding and how did you first know that this is what you wanted to devote a large portion of your life to well it's one of those proverbial often heard stories in bodybuilding I was at a drugstore with my mother in my local in my hometown of Ephrata Pennsylvania and while she was off doing some shopping my I was looking over the magazines and all of a sudden my attention was arrested by the sight of a muscle man and I knew instantly there was no lag time this is what I was going to be and there's it was a love affair and I've been doing it ever since that's interesting I'll be darn let me ask you Mike what role do you think genetics plays in the sport of bodybuilding uh it's very important it's hard to determine exactly how important along with motivation uh and the discipline involved of course uh I would say it's right up there a prime determinant for sure so you're seeing that there are certain people who are born with certain body types or certain muscle lengths that they can't correct for yeah I think most sports uh tend to have certain body types that Excel more than other body types for instance in basketball [Music] in bodybuilding the indices aren't quite as evident but things like you mentioned muscle belly length bone size and then one that's not so tangible is uh an inherited predisposition towards building muscle mass and that's something you can't determine until you actually begin training some people when they start training grow almost immediately then there are other people who train for years and years as you've probably seen in various gyms who never grow at all something that I was curious about because you know there's so many different theories about training and I hear people say well you can eat anything you want as long as you're working out constantly and I've I've never held that to be true how important is Diet when one is training is there is there a percentage where you should devote to exercise no I think they're both 100 important years ago there was a saying that diet is 80 percent of bodybuilding but I don't think you can quantify it that way you've got to train properly and you've got to eat properly I think diet is important because one of the first requisites in being a great athlete is that you're healthy and you've got to eat a well-balanced diet to be healthy but I don't think it's any more important than that many athletes tend to overemphasize certain elements of diet like vitamins and protein and again the most important requirement is that you need a well-balanced diet just so that you're healthy kind of a follow-up on that is there a percentage that you should devote in your diet to let's say carbohydrates to protein to Fat well if you were to listen to the hucksters of the nutritional products you would believe that your diet should be made up entirely of protein but if you listen to qualified nutritional scientists you'll hear most often that your diet should be 60 carbohydrates 25 protein or 15 fats that's true for athletes and the average individual like hmm I know a lot of people it seems like the bodybuilding air is starting to pick up more in the last 10 or 15 years yeah I think so um and a lot of these athletes men and women come from different sports do you consider bodybuilders to be athletes or would you consider the sport more of a discipline well I think all sports involve discipline uh depends upon how you define sport the fact you have all these men around the world engaged in serious physical training which will eventually culminate in the pursuit of a competitive goal I think it's a sport okay talking about your career today as an athletic trainer are you are you enjoying sharing your knowledge that you've obtained over the years and sharing with other people and helping them build their bodies is it giving you a lot of personal satisfaction yes it is I competed for oh up to 10 years and as you may know yourself athletic training has to be a little old as you get older yourself uh but now I do enjoy sharing the knowledge that I acquired over the years of my own training with my clients and uh it's very very satisfying Mike I'm sure there's a lot of people out there who would like to improve their physiques and their bodies and would want to go to perhaps a trainer but what what should somebody look at when they are looking into getting a trainer what are some of the qualifications maybe well not necessarily his muscular development or even his athletic appearance it's actually very difficult presumably the person's going to the gym because he knows little or nothing about training I think the only way to do it would be to assess his general intelligence level and listen as to how well he explains the principles of productive exercise as to whether or not he has a grasp of the principles of exercise a couple of the couple things that I've run across and well I've been training is that people generally want either two types of ways to improve their body they either want to get more muscle mass or they want to become defined talk about a little bit about the different theories between gaining mass which you should do and maybe if somebody just wants to remain lean and not really gain any any Mass good point as a matter of fact there are two two types of basic training you can train either for muscle mass or endurance which tends to to burn body fat and keep you lean um for those who want to build muscle mass the most important principle is that of intensity the harder you train the more weight you lift the more you put into it the more muscle you'll develop and those who are looking to just remain lean and not develop muscle perhaps tone themselves uh the intensity factor the amount of weight they lift is not so important they don't have to push themselves quite as hard let me ask you Mike there's been a lot of talk for years and years and years in not only in bodybuilding but several Sports about the use of steroids right how prevalent are they today compared to when you were competing well I think generally there's a movement away from steroid use since the increased media attention uh towards the the deleterious effects of steroids but in those who are still competing I think there's an even greater use in abuse of steroids for those who were hell-bent on competing there's definitely more steroid use and even Beyond steroids now they're taking what's called growth hormone which is not a steroid compound in itself but does affect the body's rate of growth enormously from what I hear as far as giving you more size and bulk more muscle mass okay have there been any proven studies because another thing you hear from a negative side amongst the general public is uh for instance a male will not be able to have kids 10 years from now is this all just I know you've talked about that as well as is the case with the media very often when there's something that's possibly dangerous they tend to get all kinds of things confused and they bring other issues into it yes steroids can be dangerous in certain ways but not that particular way it does not affect fertility I know of many top bodybuilders who have been training and taking steroids for up to 20 and 30 years who have Healthy Families do you feel they are necessary to compete on an international level with Mr Olympia the Lee haneys of the world without a doubt not saying that Lee hini does it because I don't know if he does or does not but I'm staying on that level yeah if you want to compete on even the local national International or professional level without a doubt steroids are a part of it can you define for audience what does steroid rage is supposedly well in the General Media and in the bodybuilding media also there have been reports about bodybuilders who have uh started fires uh decimated whole bar rooms full of men because they've on steroids and the implication is a stairways affect the mood the personality uh those things do happen occasionally as they happen out in the general public Beyond bodybuilding and those kinds of individuals are immature to begin with getting back to steroids and bodybuilding um are you saying it's pretty much necessary if you're going to be at the top of the top of the Heap in bodybuilding to to pretty much use the steroids only because everyone else is doing it yeah because that's that's the theory that you hear in other sports let's say in professional football I was reading an article one time one lineman said that I take steroids only because I need to do it to compete because everyone else is doing and if I don't I'm going to be uh well I'll be thrown away I think there's more to it than that it's true on that level you have to take steroids to compete but I think also the public has become accustomed now to seeing a certain level of development and uh without steroids the standard would go backwards and the public would lose interest and the guys like it too it's not just because they they want to compete on a certain level there are many bodybuilders in the gyms who don't compete and still take steroids because they want a certain look that's not to say all of them do but quite a few that's interesting where do you see the sport going from here since the guys have already attained this size and mass and leanness can you get any leaner and any bigger no I don't think so there isn't much being done in the way of research towards increased training or improved training methods or improve nutritional or dietary regimens and in part because of the public outcry against steroid use I don't think there's a whole lot of research being done in the area of steroids either uh I don't think you you're going to see much improvement in the standard over the next few years in bodybuilding I think that one thing that needs to be touched on though is that I don't think people should get the idea that they can just take steroids and they're going to develop into these Greek gods I mean you've still got to train and diet intensely it's been proven that those who take steroids and do not train do not get any results either and it should be stated to the general public that there is a definite health risk I've been involved in bodybuilding for almost 30 years and I've never met anyone but that's not to say that there there aren't those who haven't had health problems I'm I'm sure there are those guys out there who are taking uh many times the recommended daily dosage and are having problems just stands to reason that there's going to be somebody out there who does that uh but it should be borne out too that there is a health risk and and there's also a legal risk involved now also it's illegal to take steroids doctors can still prescribe them but uh now the prescriptions require a triplicate the government controls it so it's much harder to obtain and those who do take them are running a legal risk as well as a health risk well there's such an overall drug awareness in in our country today that you know that's certainly added to the awareness of steroids and sports so all those things work you know working together make it kind of a dangerous dangerous thing to do you mentioned also along the same lines with I guess growth hormone for the Layman including myself would that give you size and what what effect would a steroid give you is it more energy or what's the purpose no steroids or growth hormone the difference between the two I guess is what I'm saying well I can't speak from personal experience when I was competing years ago I I did take steroids I never took growth hormone from what I understand the the reaction is a very a little bit different with the growth hormone uh it operates on different bodily systems and the results are not quite as as evident initially as with steroids as soon as they start taking stairways there's a response growth hormone takes time I'm curious when you were when you were competing did you ever because a lot of people don't like the appearance of bodybuilders they think it's kind of grotesque did you was that hard for you to deal with people saying to you you're you look you're too big you're too no no as a matter of fact I was always a bit of a rebel throughout my life and uh the thought that I would be different from other people never bothered me and when I heard that it bothered other people it even gave me more impetus to continue training that's a good philosophy I'm sure a lot of their their negative comments come from jealousy because I think so the dedication that requires to look you know like when you're competing is just tremendous yeah as a matter of fact I've talked to many people in the past who claimed initially they didn't like the look of a bodybuilder then I would bring them to a physique contest and show them the magazine over a period of time their standards changed they didn't feel as threatened we've got a picture with Mike on the monitor here also look at that picture excuse me Mike that was taken a few years ago I must say well you can see the dedication that would that would take to to look like that I mean those are that's hours and hours and hours of training there how many years was that to get to that point well that was 11 years ago a photograph taken right before the 1980 Mr Olympia contest and I had been training at that point for about 15 years off and on uh but for about seven years straight through right before that that's incredible but an important Point Anthony I did not train for hours and hours every day and this is an important issue oh okay um contrary to what most bodybuilders do which is train two to four hours a day seven days a week to obtain that condition I trained literally for 30 minutes four times a week two hours a week yeah because the theory that you always hear is that it does require hours and hours to look like that the mistaken premise there is that more is better and the body doesn't necessarily work that way if two hours or four hours a day we're good we'll why not train 12 hours a day training is a form of stress and up to a certain point in time exposing the body to stress can be beneficial but beyond a definite period of time it can actually be detrimental hmm that's interesting let me ask you amongst the top com excuse me contenders in the world are competitors would everybody be training differently do you think or do people know that less is actually better for them no they don't the vast majority of people who train train is almost exactly the same way for two to four hours a day six to seven days a week there are those who have read my articles and have attended my seminars and tend to be reasonable individuals and train just for 30 to 45 minutes a day four times a week hmm something that I'm always curious about because I'm a big fan of doing cardiovascular work are you do you Advocate that doing let's say an hour of cardiovascular work a day does that keep the weight off or does that tear down no it does not necessarily keep the weight off uh weight control is primarily a matter of calorie balancing you could you could do two hours a day of aerobics and if you're eating too many calories still be getting fat um another Point here that's important is that your weight training can give you the cardiovascular benefit at the same time that it gives you the muscle training benefit if you're not resting too long between sets and you're sustaining What's called the age-adjusted pulse rate uh you will develop a cardiovascular training effect and improve your heart and lungs along with your skeletal muscle tissue give us a sample diet of someone that wanted to lose weight well I mean how many calories I guess it really depends on the individual person you can make an overall uh no call on that but there is a there is a fundamental principle involved here and that is as long as the individual goes below his or her maintenance level of calories they will lose fat whether it's whether their maintenance level is 1500 calories a day or 15 000 any number below that will cause the body to revert to fat burning instead of storing fat is alcohol as Fanning as everyone says it is uh well alcohol contains seven calories a gram carbohydrates and protein contained four calories a gram while fat contains nine calories a grams so it's in between No More Beer Billy yes as a matter of fact I I truly believe that you can indulge in those things on occasion without any harmful effects as long as you're taking care of yourself training two or three times a week and basically following a well-balanced diet there's always room for a few calories of beer a few I said under your theory I guess of training we did a play to men and women yeah the basic physiological principles involved in uh exercise physiology or reply to everybody male and female but it is true that men gain weight in areas that the women don't gain weight is well you know I used to think that too and I think there is a little bit of uh unobjective sexism there I've seen a lot of women training now in the gym who gain even faster than some guys again with even with the women it's individual genetic potential that determines how fast they'll grow some guys have almost no genetic potential for growth uh same is true for females but then again there's some females who exhibit a tremendous potential for growth well it's kind of hard to know though if you do have genetic I mean you could I guess you you should get a signal if you've been training for 10 years you don't see any growth it's something you can only accurately assess in retrospect you won't know until you try right so for those who are interested try it don't uh be put off by someone telling you well you don't have the potential that's something no one knows again unless you look looking back over a period of time within two or three years if you haven't gained anything at all either you're training improperly which is often the case or you have four genetics but then again anybody can improve you may not become a muscular Marvel but you can improve your muscular tone and lose fat and would also enhance a certain degree of confidence with that all for sure let me ask you one last question about steroids and we'll move from that subject in reference to women do you feel it's as prevalent in the women's side residences in the men's side of the competition yeah for sure again among those who are competing it's omniprevelent they all take them without a doubt can you mask it as we've heard in the media well it's interesting over the past two years the International Federation of bodybuilders along with the national physique committee have been testing competitors but it's obvious to those who are in the know who have the eye for these things that they're still taking it so they have somehow found a way to mask the test results so it almost sounds like you're saying there's a certain look that derives from a person from taking these drugs without a doubt for sure can you give us some examples of what that might look like well the muscle tends to have a more swelled even at times bloated look and the the veins actually become almost grossly enlarged one of the side effects of steroids that it increases blood volume by up to two pints so when you see a bodybuilder in a gym with what appears to be abnormally huge veins they are in fact abnormally large you know seeing some bodybuilders make it in the acting Fields um example Arnold Schwarzenegger and Lou Ferrigno do you think there is room for more bodybuilders to to make it like schwarzay what what do those guys have that others obviously haven't been able to show what is it just well your question sort of presumes the notion that every bodybuilder wants to be a movie star that's true that's true and I don't think that's necessarily true uh two things Louis and Arnold had going were their enormous success in bodybuilding which tended to carry over to the public at Large and they were extremely disciplined and highly motivated people and I think what they did was reappropriate their energy and discipline to the area of acting and as a result they became successful there also you're absolutely right I mean there's obviously a desire on their part to to become actors to get into the movies you're absolutely right on that and I know you've done some commentating work for the networks in bodybuilding is there any of that in your future and is bodybuilding going to be get more television exposure I don't think bodybuilding will get any more television exposure and as a result I'm not really interested in pursuing commentary as a career why wouldn't it get more exposure just didn't get the ratings or uh that's a good question over the last actually up to about six or seven years ago it seemed to be getting increasing exposure the last two or three years however the networks haven't carried nearly as many contests ESPN is ESPN has taken over right right right let me ask you also is there a Best aged to start training man male or female well I don't think there's ever been any definitive studies done to uh say anything conclusive about that but some people speculate that from 25 to 35 seemed to be the best years okay that's that's the best years again anyone can improve even up to the age of 70 80. as long as you're reasonably healthy you can get to the gym you're suffering from no uh physical ailments anybody can improve I'm going to ask you Mike about one body part in particular that I'm sure a lot of men out there watching will be interested into is the stomach right now how do you get a washboard stomach like we saw on that I'm sure most guys with Summer coming up would die for that kind of information well you definitely don't want to indulge in too much beer like we were talking about before right but it's primarily a matter of nutritional control calorie control as long as you know your maintenance level of calories is and you go any number below that you will lose body fat of course the further you go into a calorie deficit the more fat you'll lose at a faster rate uh the secondary factor is of course physical training building up the muscle tissue but even if you are training and building the muscle tissue up and you have the fat you're still going to appear fat right now talking about the fat or foods like let's say mayonnaise and the cakes are those type of foods that will cover up the most no no no no that's that's a common misconception again it's all calorie control even if if you were eating below your required or maintenance level of calories every day let's say you're eating 500 calories below your maintenance level you could eat that all those calories could be comprised literally of table sugar and mayonnaise and you still lose fat there is no really one single food or group of foods that could be called fattening it's your overall calorie intake that determines how fat you'll be so I can still go on Late Night Pop-Tart Rampages is that what you're saying as long as they're under control it's nice to know let me ask you I know over the last I think it's about six or seven years in a row now Lee Haney is as one Mr Olympia Mr Universe seven years in a row in your mind and I know you hear that there's there is some kind of politics involved can anybody beat him first off well I think there are a number of people who can beat him um actually what it boils to down boils down to is who's going to be in shape that day very often even the top competitors miss their Peak by a little bit it's true in baseball true in football if he misses his Peak by one percent the guy who was second place last year can sneak at him so Lee Haney is definitely beatable without a doubt could you give us a couple names of who you think would be take two or three gentlemen who would have a good shot at it uh well there's one guy who stands on the horizon at the moment who I think is going to win next year and that's Sean Ray uh last year he placed I think it was fifth or sixth not really in the top running but that was only his second Olympia and along with that he has all the physical requirements and super abundance for winning the Olympia besides that Lee Haney's won seven in a row and people are getting a little sick of seeing him in there is he maybe living on his reputation alone now more yeah there is that because bodybuilding is a little bit subjective uh and is subject to political influence uh I think so yeah I know that uh like we said that you've written a couple books now is is authoring any more books in the picture for you in the future or are you pretty much content doing what you're doing with the training and I'm very content training at people that I'm training uh if I was offered a deal I would do it but I've done three in the past and the money isn't all that great and it's like having a homework lesson every night which I never did like uh so I don't think so in terms of the discipline you make discipline into the research and it's a very competitive industry isn't it the material along with that I think the the bodybuilding uh book Market has been saturated there if you go to most bookstores now you'll see at least two or three dozen bodybuilding books I don't think there's really room for one more if there is maybe I'll do one our final minute now Bill you've got any more questions um sure Mike do you see yourself coming back again and training again absolutely just kidding absolutely what about one of the one of the just a quick thing here one of the theories you hear about people when you turn 50 or 60 yeah everything falls to your knees which I know is not true because you share something about that with a couple examples yeah uh I think that's one of those misconceptions that's motivated in part by fear and jealousy and lack of understanding about what bodybuilding really is right now there are at least two or three competitors on the top professional scene who will believe it or not are in their 60s and winning about six weeks ago a man named Albert beckles at the age of 61 won the Niagara Falls Grand Prix bodybuilding professional contest eating out guys who are in their 20s he's been competing for 35 years so where's where's his muscles turning the fat they are not he's getting better at the age of 61. it's not 51 61. that's good to know and I I would bet he'll be doing it at the age of 70. well Mike we're getting the signal that we've got to wrap up I want to thank you obviously I was filled with a lot of minutes thank you very much misconceptions about training and you've enlightened me it's been very uh it's been very interesting my pleasure [Music]

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Length: 26min 20sec (1580 seconds)

Published: Tue Nov 22 2022