Michael Jordan's Trainer REVEALS The Secret Formula For SUCCESS! | Tim Grover & Lewis Howes

winning requires you to be different and different scarce people so after each championship every single athlete high performance athlete that i've worked with even in business would come up to me and say i think you gotta have a dream the school of greatness really yeah you have been training and working with the greatest athletes and leaders of our generation kobe bryant michael jordan dwyane wade and many others that rave about you and your mindset more than just you as a trainer but you're the way you think and the way you show up the habits the uh just the the rituals the routines everything you bring to the table and i want to ask you my first question is what do most people misunderstand about success in general you're around the most successful people you train them what do people misunderstand about success i think the thing that people misunderstand about success is they're looking for the easiest way to get there you know and it's funny how many people books have you read or i won't say promote it but head on you're showing everybody goes five easy steps ten steps to greatness yeah you know eight steps to this and those steps for success they're infinite they are infinite you cannot count them it doesn't matter how long you've been doing it those steps are constantly shifting you don't know if they're there sometimes you have to trust that the next step is going to be there when you can't even see it and sometimes when you step on that step you go right into quicksand but you got to be able to pull yourself back out of it again so everybody's looking for these steps and there are no steps so steps never never end and you just can't climb steps sometimes you gotta crawl though those steps and you finally get to the top and everything shifts and you're at the bottom it's crazy all right what does that mean sometimes you're at the top and then you're at the bottom again well you may get to the top and you're like i'm here and then you look back down and you look up again you're actually on the first step you're on the first step again and where you thought was the top is not even the top it's the beginning wow it's literally the beginning of where you're supposed to be and that's when most people just quit i just like it just drives me crazy because everybody's like here look at i always people that i do the interview with i always like to use them as an example because people can relate to that all right you've been climbing steps for how long to get to here to get i mean since starting this it's been over eight years but the journey before then it was you know decades to build myself to prepare myself for this and now i feel like i'm just getting started right exactly so you're obsessed right exactly so all the steps that you climbed just to get started yeah just to get started and people don't want to talk about those steps they don't want to talk about those steps and how difficult those steps are and how many steps that you stumbled on and how many steps you didn't even see and how many steps that people placed in front of you when they pulled and they pulled them all pulled away people that you were very close to people that you knew that people that you thought that were like hey these people actually have my back except yeah they did have your back but they were actually pushing you down the steps yes no and it's funny when you talk about those things or people talk about it they seem surprised but you should know that in that path all those things are going to be there they're going to be there right it's the obstacles you know ryan holiday says the obstacle is the way do you think that anyone can become a winner your book is about winning the unforgiving race to greatness um do you think anyone can become a winner winning isn't all of us that's what i would say listen and we have wins every single moment yeah and those are the steps that get us a little closer to what we want we have a stat we every minute you have an opportunity to win you really do but with everything that went on in the world in this past year people forgot how to win people don't even know what a win looks like anymore what does it look like yeah people don't even know like and so many times a win just comes by because there's a constant change there's a constant shift and now with the paradigm of way everything is being handled now you have to look at things completely different everybody's waiting for normal a win a win doesn't look like what it used to look like anymore right all right what does it look like now what does it look like now for each individual it's different for each individual it's different for a lot of individuals it's just like getting out of that routine that you were stuck in for so long and did the pandemic allow you to say you know what yeah i was in a routine but the routine wasn't getting me anywhere i was in a routine of comfort and the pandemic put a lot of people in a routine that was very uncomfortable that they weren't used to they weren't you but it was a necessity it was needed you know people always wish for this time during this thing that happened i want to spend more time with my family and now they have it now you have it okay schools aren't doing a good job with with educating my kids now you're homeschooled all right i'd love to work from the house now you're doing it now you're doing it now you have all these things going on that you wished you had as you thought were wins and for some people they were and for others you're just like no these were not these are not winds these aren't i do a lot of zoom stuff at home and i got a cat and i got a very lively dog and you'll see the cat run right right across the screen of course i don't have little kids in the house anymore but trying to work and have them in the background asking for school help or you know they're they're on their bandwidth trying to study in their school stuff and winning became a distraction it became a distraction and people were trying to balance all these different things and forgot hey this is what my win is that you need to recognize what that win is now and during the pandemic it's not getting back to normal it's getting beyond normal figuring out what your next win is how to place it and how to continue to move forward on that win yeah because it's easy to talk about the setbacks because so many people can relate to that that gave us a nice little comfort thing everybody can use the pandemic as an excuse yeah all right and then you have other people that thrive during that time they're like i got i got to find out a new way to win [Music] i got to find out like a real real new way to win and you had some people that really really won big during that time absolutely they stepped up they stepped up yes they stepped up they saw the steps and i was like okay are these steps stable are they unstable it doesn't matter i got a climber right i got a climb right you've uh you've probably been asked this question a million times so i'm not going to ask it which is i'm not going to ask you to answer it which is uh who is the best basketball player you ever trained i'm assuming you've been asked that many times i have what i will ask you is who is the hardest for you personally to train who is the hardest for you to show up for mentally physically what was the most the biggest challenge for you for whatever reason maybe because they were more demanding or they were you know needed different skills that you didn't have whatever it is who is the hardest for you to train well you know what's funny all my top guys i didn't have any problems with those they always showed up i knew what was expected now kobe was extremely demanding on knowing everything like why are we doing this exactly why tell me the science behind it yes otherwise i don't want to do it exactly you know you had him on your show and you know he's like every question you ask him there's there's got to be a purpose behind him otherwise you get that mama glare what are we doing here what are we doing here what are we doing here and so he wanted to know er why we did every exercise why we worked out at this time what was the rep count why am i eating this why am i resting this long he wanted to know every single detail why am i giving this particular day off he needed he needed to know all of it why did we do why did i change a sequence of this stuff so he he was very demanding in that way which i really enjoyed because it made me sharper in my skills because michael in his career he was just like i hired you if i have to question you that means i don't trust you right i trust you just do it i'll do whatever you tell me to do yeah i hired you to do a job i have to focus in on this you go out you you do your job results were tremendous but kobe wanted to know every single detail along the way everything like why am i changing his diet what's going on here everything if if he didn't shoot well in the game like hey we changed that exercise up did i have anything to do with wha what was going on and you couldn't bs him and a lot of times i wouldn't know the answer and i would say give me 24 hours then i would call somebody who had a better expertise in that and that was a level of respect that he had because i didn't come across as a know-it-all i don't know what i'm gonna ask somebody who's who's better at it than i am yeah who was uh so he was the most demanding he was oh you know he was relentless louis you being out here his 3 a.m workouts yeah they're crazy crazy you know having to keep the state having to keep the staples center open later because he wasn't happy the way he performed at that game and i would not leave till he would leave really yeah so we would be we would be in the arena sometimes two three o'clock in the morning shut up yeah we and this you know one security one security person there because they can't leave him alone oh my gosh all right all the lights are turned off but except on the battle except on the court and we just we just keep we just keep going we just keep going we just keep going the hardest thing with him was getting him to stop yeah okay take a break rest yes take the day off yeah that was the most challenge you said what was the most challenging thing that was the most challenging thing with him because over all the years that he had his success it was about go go go and then when i came on i was the complete icicle i got to get you to stop otherwise you're going to hurt yourself yes that was a very very difficult concept for him to understand and i said not only physically mentally because i need you to stop men i need to stop mentally for a little bit you got to give this break you got to give this game a little bit of break up in here i'm not going to tell you how to do that but you have to you have to find that way where for 20 minutes we can just i just need you to shut it off yeah and when you were training with a kobe or a michael jordan was it five days a week was it in the off season mostly was it during season how would it typically work year-round yeah full-time year-round were you training other people at the same time or was it just this is it so with michael during the season it was it was just him it was just him well we had what was called the breakfast club the breakfast club was during the season i would say i would train uh michael jordan scottie pippen and ron harper they would come on they would show up at michael's house i would try together i would train them they would get together if they worked out intensely enough their reward was breakfast and michael was the judge of michael was a judge of that really he was a giant you don't eat unless you train hard you don't yeah you don't get breakfast unless you unless you're you're in here they all had to be here at the same time we would finish the workouts at different times because each one had different needs that had to be addressed separately but once they were done they sat they all had breakfast together they all got in their individual cars and they drove they drove to the arena some would leave a little bit earlier because they needed treatment or other things they were training hard the day of the game the day of the of the game they trained and that was something what if they're sore what if you're like oh i can't lift my arms i can't run see so it was funny and i talked about this in this book winning because when i i have a master's degree in exercise science my bachelor's is in kinesiology so i spend a lot of time in school and they taught me what to think [Music] here's the book this is how the body works this is what you what you need to do all right then when i started working with these individuals i said okay between travel days and game days if we were to work out if we did not work out on those days we would literally work out maybe once a week because you're practicing i mean you got to travel you know you got you back then they were almost three to four games a week you know now the schedule's a little bit more diverse but back then it was you know you would play a minimum of three games a week so i was like if we don't work out on game days we're never going to make any progress you will actually be more sore once a week working out and there were no books to tell me of any of this there was no nothing i couldn't go to back then remember no internet right all right no cell phones no no no no cell phone no google no yes it was the dewey decimal system for the young people that don't know what that is is when you go to a library yeah where they have books and you got to check out a book you couldn't find this information in there so to me i started to develop the skill of how to think i was like you know what this makes sense to me so i'd say hey michael we michael we got to do this we have to work out on game day yes it's going to be detrimental early right it's a month first three weeks it's gonna you're gonna be paying right in pain yeah right i said i'm not gonna tell you you're not bryson if we started early enough and get you we started in the preseason your body will acclimate then when the season rolls around you'll be you'll be fine i said it will pay off dividends in the long run how many years have you been playing in the nba before you told him we're gonna be training on game day i started with him right away i started i started with him in 89 i think he came into the league i can't remember the exact year he came into the into the league but i started training with him uh in 1989. and how did the story go again didn't you call like every player on the team or something so again back then it wasn't easy to pick up pick up a phone so what i did was unless you had a landline at home and um i wrote a letter i wrote letters there's 15 players on an nba team i wrote 14 letters to the chicago bulls i wrote a letter to every single player except michael jordan because i was like he's not going to do it he's not going to do it i'm like i've never worked with a pro athlete all right i've never worked with a pro athlete no one's gonna he's not gonna the best of the best is not gonna come in and say hey i'm gonna hire this i'm gonna hire this kid but he saw a letter in somebody else's locker and pulled the letter out read it and gave it to the athletic trainer the team physician at that time and say hey find out what this kid's about really yeah how would we read that i was 20 25 maybe 25 26. you're about the same age as michael right yeah yeah michael's born in uh i'm a 62 i'm a 64. he's a 60. he was born in 62 i was born in 64. gotcha so he's a he's a couple years older than you older yeah and so he saw a letter in someone else's locker and said oh why didn't i get this letter yeah competitive wow why why isn't this guy reaching out you know i don't know if that was the case but everybody knows about michael's competitiveness and he was just like why why didn't he read why didn't he reach out to me so he gave it to the team athletic trainer and the team doctor got together they gave me a call i didn't know who they were interviewing yeah i had no idea they said list we have a client that's that's interested we have somebody that's interested it's okay so for lilly for three months for three months they drilled me they brought me in to see my my uh to ask me questions to take tests to you know see if i knew what i was talking about to go through a rehab process to go through a workout all these and that just went on for three literally four days a week for three months every single every single day every single day and then one day they finally said hey listen we want you to meet the client so okay no problem didn't tell me who it was said be at the gave me an address and say be at this house at 1 30. all right and back then it was still a nice house but it wasn't a gated house you could just walk up and ring that ring the doorbell so i get there i ring the doorbell you didn't know who it was not a clue not a clue so i ring the doorbell no answer i ring the doorbell again no answer i ring the doorbell a third time michael jordan opens up the door all right luckily i'm not a starstruck person i'm not a starstruck person so he goes i said i'm here he goes yeah i know and then i look down at my shoes i'm wearing converse oh no and i'm like do i go in this house with converse so now winning is literally talking to me back then because i'm like this is the only opportunity i'm gonna get do i go into this house with converse or do i take them off so i took them off i got holes in my socks both of them not just one both of them yeah so what do i do i turn my socks around so the dirty parts on the top but the holes are on the bottom wow so i walk into the house we go downstairs we talk for about 40 45 minutes i said tell me your philosophy tell me what's going on i go through the whole process the whole program everything and he goes this doesn't sound right i said this doesn't get any writer i said trust me trust me on this because i'll give you 30 days and 30 days turned into 15 years wow that's crazy it's unbelievable story then when i walked out of the house i grabbed my shoes and he looked down and said never again that's amazing did he give you a pair of uh no i i had to go out and buy him i couldn't i couldn't you can't go into a potentially a new client in the first game yeah and ask him for and ask him for something so i went where i left there went out had to equip the equip the downstairs basement as quickly as possible had to get a new pair of shoes and we literally started the next day 15 years was it was it like five days a week for 15 years were there some months off were there so we would go year round we would he would stop usually they usually played until the end of june because that's that's during this that's what was a schedule back then after the championship and then he would take off through labor day so he had to take care of his endorsements his different different deals spend time with the family take his trips so michael was extremely smart during that time and this is the concepts of why a lot of reasons why he was able to win over and over again so he would say listen i have all these obligations he would tell his people you have me from july 1 until labor day every endorsement deal every obligation i have every family trip every oversea whatever i'm going to do has to be done in those time because once labor day starts i start training again i start to train to get ready for the next season [Music] and once that happened there was like that was it there was no more i got a nike commercial here i got to do a gatorade thing over here i gotta do a hanes thing here i mean no it was workout golf workout golf workout golf and that was that we literally went we'd go anywhere from five to six days a week almost sometimes two to three times a day not always working out you know people always love these stories about oh i work out six hours a day yeah you might work out six hours a day but that includes your recovery time and yeah yes warming up yeah and you're easy to talk yes you're easy to talk to about that because you've been you've been you've played at the highest level yeah well people always animate about oh my god kobe works out for eight hours a day yeah no no it's game film that's preparing they're stretching this yes yes it's everything that's ice tubs whatever yeah yeah that brings you towards that width of course yeah that's exciting so for those two months then you weren't really training him during that time i wasn't training him during that time i would train other athletes that that he allowed me for the first three years for the first three years he didn't he did and this was a great this was his standard answer and he would tell everybody he goes i don't pay i don't pay grover to train me i'm not to train you not to train wow that's crazy yeah because i don't pay him to trade me i pay him not to train anybody else so then he would allow me after after about three four years he would allow me to work with other individuals but he would always say this he goes you need to tell every single one of your clients that if i call and i would always tell everybody i said listen i'm willing to take you on as a client but this is the one and only stipulation i said well the reason you're here is because you saw the work that i did with him let's get that right let's let's not mistake that but i said if he calls for whatever reason and we're in the middle of a workout we i'm gone i gotta go wow i gotta go no questions to ask no no no i said the chances of that happening are slim but i'm just yeah letting you know what were the three greatest lessons that you learned from michael three greatest lessons i learned from michael i would say competing accountability and then winning at all levels winning all levels what does that mean you just don't win in one arena you win in your sports you win in business you win in your personal life other people win because you win it isn't just about you it's about being able to pull the team and show them what it feels like to win what kind of feeling that gives when you win your family wins when your family wins you win when you win your friends win the people that have supported you every time michael played i always said this i said and i said this in the last dance he would say these individuals are giving me something that's way more valuable than the price of a ticket they're giving me their time which is non-refundable which is not you can't exchange it with somebody else you can't take your ticket and exchange it with another interview these people are really giving me their time whether they're at the arena they're sitting in front of the tv they're watching the news listening to it on the radio back then whatever whatever it may be my accountability to myself and those individuals has to be at the highest level has to be at the highest level because they're doing something that is so giving me something that's so valuable i have to be at my best i have to be at my best is it possible to win at everything if you're going to be the best at one thing no because even in the last dance he was talking about how certain things you know in his life maybe were out of balance because he was all in on yes the obsession of winning in basketball louis we've all been there yeah we've all been there and one of the chapters i talk about in winning is there is no balance there is no balance and everybody loves to talk about balance all the time and the people that have kind of maybe finally created balance they don't talk about the times where there was no balance right for years they weren't in balance and now they're like okay i've got some resources i've got more time i've got a i got a staff i got people to help me help me do things and i also said you know people ask me all the time how do you find balance i said you don't find balance you create it and it's different for each individual out there what's balance for you may not be balanced for somebody else and i'm not here to judge what your balance is and so forth all right it's different across it's different across the board but the one way to get closer to balance everyone does the complete opposite people always ask me this you know well how do i create more balance well i said well what are you trying to do i'm trying to you know people are telling me i need to spend more time with my family i work too much you know i need to i need to pay attention to my kids or or i pay too much attention to them i don't pay enough attention to my career and all all this other stuff and i said well what do you do well you know i'm trying to add all these different components i was like that's your mistake um what should i do instead delete delete what you're on essentials there's so many unessentials that you carry wrong around in your head or in your daily life to in your daily life in your routines or whatever when you try to balance things if you add more things it becomes more difficult to balance delete the on essentials delete the things that are that are not creating that balance for you and if you look at it if you really sit down you'll be like yeah i really don't need to do this i shouldn't be doing this i got a little time wasted i got my a little time wasted over here and that way it brings you a little bit closer to what you'll create what balance looks like for you but like you said earlier is everything going to be perfect no and i give this example when i do it when i when i'm speaking to individuals and again i talk about it in the book i'll ask individuals who wants zero happiness nobody raises their hand all right i said who wants zero success no one raises uh no one raises their hand all right and i'm gonna say who wants a zero life no one raises their hand i said who wants zero love no one raises their hand i said what's the number on a perfectly balanced scale it's a zero it's an absolute zero so i said if you're trying to balance all those things all the time you're going to end up with none of them you're going to end up with none of them now i never want your scale to be tipped all the way this way all right but then you have to decide how much where things are where are things going to be and the time listen if you are one of those individuals as a person that's dedicated to their craft want to do this there are things that are going to have to take a back seat yeah okay you want to be the best at something or great at something yes one of the best is something something has to take a backseat it it and it always is but then when you take whatever's in the back seat and you put in the forefront for that moment make sure you're all in all in on that moment present giving attention all of it all of it all of it be all in you know people always tell and i could tell listen you have a very calm demeanor about yourself you you you you you really competing in the sports arena right exactly exactly all right but let's go back to your competitive dates how many people would tell you man you need to loosen up you need to unwind no no it's like i'm focused man i'm in the game exactly you're like you're most uncomfortable when you are unwound when you're relaxed yes you're thinking about how do i do more how do i create how do i train harder what do i need to watch film study yes you're obsessing over it and that was one of kobe's favorite words when it related to winning he says you have to be obsessed with whatever your win is and everybody looks at that word obsessed as a bad word as a bad word but look at this if you weren't obsessed would you have the guests that you have no it wouldn't be impacting people the way we are and and that's okay if that's the life you want which is not obsession that's okay but that doesn't mean you're gonna get the results that obsession brings and don't judge the people right that are obsessed and allow you not to be you know because they're doing all the work for you like they're carrying a lot of weight yeah listen how many people do you know you just did an interview recently with was it tony tony and um tony robbins russell brand yeah all right well if people want to hear what they have to say you have to be obsessed in order to get that information for the people that aren't obsessed absolutely otherwise they want to bring the information to me right so they should be thankful that man you know what we're really really thankful that lewis is obsessed at doing what he's doing because it brings us enjoyment it allows us not to be obsessed in that area and we can be obsessed in some other area absolutely yeah i think it's yeah i think it's important to to recognize that obsession over winning and whatever that looks like for you that can be sports business uh parenthood anything being a good friend whatever it may be you know if you want to be great at something you can't half-ass it you can't be tiptoe in a little bit out spend a little bit of time on it you've got to be committed to it if you want to be great at that thing and that means other things might have to struggle or suffer for moments or you just need to negotiate with the people in your life this is what i'm up to and here's what i can give you i can give you time here or two months a year i can show up for you or one day a week whatever it is and you gotta negotiate with others around you so those relationships don't suffer that's a great way that's an excellent way of putting it and that's exactly what i talk about it's like listen if you ask somebody who's very important to you in your life and you say i need two years yeah stay with me for two years this is what i have to do you better deliver in those two years right you better deliver in those there better be some tangible stuff in there that you've won at and also the person that waited for you they get a chance to win also because if they're gonna put where if you tell them hey i need you to wait this is how i'm going to be for the next and after those two years you better have measurable results you don't you can't ask for another two years and nothing and then you have nothing to show for it for that period of time your warranty's over with yeah it's definitely it's done and speaking of negotiating uh how does someone learn to negotiate with their own minds when they want to when things get hard when they want to quit when they're in pain when they're struggling how do we negotiate with our negative thoughts for our vision so that we don't give in to them so this you're gonna lie you're gonna so again it it's just like you're like picking this book apart for me i absolutely i absolutely love it so i have this i talk about the battlefield that goes on in your mind there's literally a battlefield that goes on in your mind all the time and there's bombs that are exploding all the time fear anxiety i'm not good enough and a lot of times you're making those bombs explode and or somebody else is making those bombs explode all right you have to take control of that space you have to too many times the space between our ears we don't have control over it a lot of other people have set shop in it they're like they they've like taken the most expensive real estate in the world and they've like literally sitting in it and they're not paying any rent yeah they're making you pay the rent yes they're sitting here and making you okay and you're sitting in there and those individuals boy they know exactly where all the bombs are and they know which ones to push and which ones to push and how to get you emotional and how to do the and how to do those things and they also do it in a positive way also well what's considered a positive way you don't need to work that hard you're good enough the way you are you're already successful all these different things because what they're trying to do is instead of being supportive they're actually pulling you back because now you're starting to create distance between you and them and they they don't they don't want that you got to make sure you control that battlefield that's going on in there it's your space it's your mind you're going to have negative thoughts you are but you don't act on all your thoughts that's not and think just saying thinking positive is just not going to get it done all right you need to think positive but you need to act on whatever you're thinking positive of just changing your thought is not going to change your action it may change your perspective but you still have to continue to push forward so when someone has a negative thought how should they respond should they analyze it should they replace it with a more positive thought should they act on it and say okay i'm feeling tired and like i'm not enough today should they say okay when it happens i actually do something to get out of it i move my body i call a friend i work out what should they do when a negative thought comes also i always look at it this way what is causing that negative thought is it you or is it somebody or is it something that somebody else said about yeah so just like you have something that triggers that negative thought you have to have a trigger that gets you out of that negative thought i have negative thoughts just like everybody else all my all my all my client all my clients did and then i they each had a trigger to get themselves out of it and i could see it for me literally when i see a negative thought come in and if i'm walking i will literally stop i will literally stop in my tracks and i'll do like this really you're like get out get out get out that that that that's my trick now obviously i can't have my athletes sitting out there but that's what works for me but the important thing is i come to a complete stop because i don't want that thought to gain traction i don't want that so i need to address it at that moment i need to address it at that moment now with my with my at with my athletes they each and i can't share the different triggers that they they had but each had one when they were like starting to maybe doubt themselves or it was very difficult to see it you could sense it you could you could you could whether they were saying it or not you you could sense you you can look you up languages exactly because they're looking down they're doubting yes everybody ha everybody has those little things the way they're looking at something the way their their head is being held the way they're breathing yeah you know in the way when they go sit down on the bench and you know the way they look you can always see something okay they're not they're not doing how would you were they coaching themselves out of that or were you just supporting them with a mantra or a process for getting out of that like what did and i would give them a bunch of things and i just said listen you got to decide on which one you want to use you got you you have to design and a lot of times the most successful people that you've had on your show they're the most coachable that's it they're not resistant to learning they want to improve yeah so a lot of times i'm sure the the the stories the episodes that i've watched you give a lot of your guests are asking you questions absolutely you know it's like wait wait who's interviewing who's interviewing who over here and it's it's a learning process back back and forth so when i when i would talk before i would go to the individual and say hey i noticed they would all be like i already know what you're talking about and we like so we would have that discussion and noticing and being able to be aware of the mistakes be aware of the negative thoughts be aware of the negative emotions that's on you we're always looking for somebody else to point those things out to us well you need to recognize those things before anybody else does right i'm a big believer that you can't win consistently and you can't be great consistently if you're constantly doubting yourself and allowing doubt to make decisions for you lucy sure you didn't write this book [Laughter] and uh i'm not i'm not saying i'm not sure if we'll ever be able to eliminate doubt because every new level every new opportunity every new adventure we take on there's gonna be a level of i've never done this and you're gonna have to step into the courage uh you know uh bones inside of you and say i've gotta leap into courage in this and there's gonna be a little bit of doubt or insecurity but how do we eliminate it from holding us back when we have self-doubt how do we remove it so that we can continue to strive for greatness so how i look at this thing is we talk about fear and doubt in the in the book i said you've talked to you've talked to the michael jordans and kobe bryant's of the business world on a regular basis yeah all right and every single one of them i'm sure no matter how many times they've done things over and over and over again there's always been a little bit of fear there's always been a little bit what if it doesn't work out what if we lose what if this risk fails yes all right there's all but that fear is what allows them to take that next step it's their it's their instead of fear paralyzing them it's their energy it's their energy i always say you can have fear but you can't have doubt all right so how do we eliminate doubt when you have that fear when you have that fear know that what you're doing is the right thing because if it's not fearful enough your goals are too small right they're too they're too small well and then you go you never doubt the outcome don't overthink a lot of times doubting is overthinking and what is overthinking it's creating problems that don't exist you start over analyzing you start that way well this could go wrong let's go michael always used to say why should i worry about a shot i've never taken oh and people are always thinking about the negative things of something and they've never even done the thing yet and that creates more self-doubt more self-doubt more self-doubt so how do we let go of that is it just don't worry about the outcome just focus on the process is it leaning into the fear knowing that's the thing that we're supposed to go after yes exactly the trigger to move forward but to move to move forward all right you know what happens if i fail what happens if i miss it what happens if i humiliate myself then what but you know what here's the point i'd rather have those things than to say i never did it and regret i always said too i never i i never did it yeah all right i knew i wasn't good enough to be a professional basketball player i knew that but i gave everything i had and i think both of our careers you had an injury yeah i had i had an injury even if i didn't have the injury it just wasn't going to happen all right but i never die i never doubted myself i never doubted that i was going to win at something and it was going to start off in the in the sports in the sports arena yeah even when everybody told me you know you're not gonna this is not gonna happen this is not gonna happen this is not gonna happen people have to understand that winning has no loyalty to you exactly what you said you know you're going to fare you're going to fail how am i going how am i going to look what if people what if people what if people laugh at me well look at the most successful people in the world all right when you had they did a tv piece on jeff bezos way back way back when and you know his could you imagine people left when he first come out and says you know what i'm going to start a company and we're going to have everything that you want shipped to you in a week man this dude is crazy in a day in two days and then it's like you know what that's not good enough we're gonna do it in two days it's crazy that's it you're crazy that's still not good people are just laughing they're doubting you you're dying yourself and you're like i'm gonna do it in the day now you get your groceries delivered in two hours from whole foods app on amazon what normal person thinks that way yeah and the people that are a little bit off a little bit crazy a little bit like hey so what so what but they have the least amount of doubt they have the least amount of doubt you usually have doubt because of what somebody else is going to think of you how somebody else is going to react all right and people call it self-doubt but that self-doubt is usually afflicted by somebody somebody else you think about you have a greatest idea all right you had you've been at this for eight years but previously other things other things all right how many times did you tell somebody i'm going to go do this and i know it's a terrible idea it's funny the day i came up with the idea for this show i was in la i just moved here from new york city probably six to eight months prior to that and i was stuck in traffic you've lived in l.a for oh yes and i moved from new york city loved it i'm from ohio came out here i'm stuck in traffic for hours every day to go see someone whatever and i remember having the idea to do a podcast because i was feeling a little stuck in my life i was like things aren't working like i need to learn i want to grow and i was also like stuck in traffic and i was like oh a lot of people are stuck in traffic what if i could learn and also give them something while they're stuck in traffic or they're commuting this is kind of pre-podcasted sure and i remember i called a friend who had a show there was only like two people i knew how to podcast and i said i've got this idea and i want to call it the school of greatness because i want to create the school i wish i would have had growing up where they teach you the things about life loss failure doubt insecurities like how to grow they never taught these things in school from sports right so i was like i'm gonna call the school of greatness that's that's that's your how to think moment exactly exactly and i call one of my friends and he goes that's the dumbest name i've ever heard and i go okay and every every time i talk to him now he goes i was wrong that was the greatest name that was the greatest name and i just didn't see it so people that aren't going to see your vision people didn't see jeff bezos's vision people see elon musk people don't see kobe and jordan's vision and that's okay but you've got to be willing to see it in yourself so how do we how do we not allow the doubt of others saying uh take it easy ah you shouldn't do this you sure you want to work out hard uh why don't you do this over here how do we not allow other people's doubt to make it our own doubt so you know we always hear this thing about when you have fear you play to win when you have doubt you play not to lose yes exactly interesting fear when you have fear you play to win when yes doubt you played not to lose not to lose you played not too you played a lot of us i've been there in the past yes you know you i've played not to lose many times and you always end up never playing your best you never end up playing your pass you never and you never win right either way whether you win or lose you never win if you don't play your best great example and then you know fear is instinctive fear is instinctive like okay like you're like okay i'm gonna do i am a little fearful here it's the it's either to protect you or it's to go all right doubt is created by you fear is an instinct doubt you create so others don't create doubt in you i initially well it's you have to allow them to create doubt you have to receive their yes you have to receive you have to receive that you have to receive their doubt and then now it becomes it becomes you all right fear is pressure and pressure is a privilege that's great it's the greatest thing you had somebody on here just talking about stress the other day yeah and how how it keeps you alive how necessary it is all right doubt you start to panic now you start to panic yeah all right so how do we learn how to not let the doubt stay in us how do we remove it how do we get out how do we turn doubt into fear and action towards greatness continue to work like a maniacal individual on what you want is that the only way to get rid of doubt you think is by working obsessing over something and proving something so you don't doubt prove it to yourself we have so many other individuals that are trying to prove it to ed to prove it to everybody everybody else don't worry about proving it to everybody else prove it to yourself and here's what i'll say around that i think that's beautifully said because most of my life until i was about 30 i was living to prove others wrong yes and it was the second most powerful fuel and energy that i think humans have is like i'm angry i'm hurt i'm frustrated i'm gonna go prove these people wrong about me and it drove me to be obsessed around winning around achieving around accomplishing my goals and i did i accomplished them but it left me feeling very unfulfilled lonely insecure doubting myself even more why am i not feeling what i want to feel why am i not still getting what i want inside because i was driven by the wrong things to prove other people doubting me wrong and you hear that a lot by like people will say prove them wrong but i think it's prove yourself right prove yourself right and like you said i love that you're saying this because you'll prove others wrong by proving yourself right so you don't need to go prove them wrong just do your best you just gave an example yeah you're one of your closest friends yeah man that's a terrible name that's a terrible name all right prove yourself right yeah don't prove him wrong right say okay i'm gonna do this for me whether you like it or not right and the best validation is when they come back i was wrong i was wrong that's the best that's the best value they don't need to say i told you so you just say i told myself so that's it it's a it's a shift in it right and that person what did they try to do they tried to create self-doubt in you and if you would have this would have been called school of average yes you know yes normalcy right right whatever whatever whatever whatever whatever it would have been yeah whatever it meant so when doubt creeps in and we start to believe the doubt go back into proving yourself right go back into obsessing over the craft doing it for the right reasons not to prove others wrong not to look good in front of a crowd or whatever but doing it because you love the art of it the expression of it the creation of it the vision of the thing you want to work on not to validate something that's lacking right it you it's perfect you look at when kobe his first playoff series how it was on his first one it was early in his career i think he was like 18. yeah no no i'm talking about before he won the finals this was on the playoffs in the playoffs in the playoffs i think he had this no shot pre-shot yeah he had this horrible game against i think i think it might have been the utah jazz i can't wait he shot like four or five straight air balls i remember that yeah four or five straight air balls all right now he could have came back next year and said i gotta pull everybody that's a man you're too young why'd you take no it was just like you know what that's on me i have to own i have to own that i have to own that moment all right i owned that moment now i got to prove to myself i can overcome this because now everybody else is doubting me but i can't doubt myself i can't doubt my i can't doubt myself and everybody's had that moment everybody told mj don't go to north carolina you'll never play you'll never play and one of the stories i share with individuals is dean smith who was a coach at uh coach at the time he introduced uh michael he said michael i want you to meet i think i get the name right i i'm pretty sure he thinks i want you to meet bus peterson because bus peterson is a no was the number one uh recruited player in the nation to go to north carolina to go to go yeah like the one anywhere he was the number number number one number one player in the nation and michael goes to dean says how could he be number one he never played me he said he how dean saw something he saw that competitive nature in mj and he wanted to see now if i tell him that is that is that kid going to start doubting himself because everybody else has already told him you shouldn't be here you shouldn't be here and michael went out he said i don't need to prove to coach i don't need to prove to buzz i need to prove to myself that i belong here did they end up competing did they do one-on-one yeah he ended up yeah and it didn't turn out well for the other guy yeah for the other guy yeah and and coach smith made him roommates oh wow yeah that's hilarious speaking of one-on-one uh how many times did you get to play 101 against mj or kobe often they never turned out well did you ever score a point against either of them yes i did really what was that and it was the last point i ever scored really yes what was that like where was the moment um it was during it it was dirt well see it was it was kind of like a setup it was it was it was a setup so it was um i was playing uh michael and i were kind of messing messing around and we had just just finished a grueling leg workout he's like came with a ruling leg workout so you get him when he's at his lowest muscle oh yeah and he's up there and he's you know we go up there to get loose and loosen up a little bit and he's just like he's shooting us man i can't even i can't even feel i can't even feel my i can't even feel my legs i got a great idea to kind of loosen me up a little bit let's play a little one-on-one he thinks i'm just diego and i pass the people and i just go right around on that high score needs oh big mistake big mistake you saw lily the lactic acid just flush out of his body in that second and he goes all right that was the last point that was the last time i touched the ball really he wouldn't even let you play with it anymore i would i could i could he's gonna get the ball back i couldn't get the ball back i couldn't get the back yeah i would get the ball back after he scored in the basket and i pass it back to him but yeah when you got the ball and he was just swallowed again he was just like i couldn't get around him i mean when you're a professional at something people don't realize how good those individuals are i love the people that sit on the sidelines and all this other stuff and they doubt they doubt how talented those individuals are and i always tell them in any sport i said listen you give me the who you think are the five worst in the league yeah in the league pick i don't care who that dominate anyone you get your top five they will literally dominate there was a show i think like 10 years ago by some guy a basketball player from the celtics i think who was like the bottom five in the nba who like scored five points in eight years and they would bring out these college like superstars and rex superstars and freak athletes they couldn't even score a point on this guy after he retired yeah i can't remember the guy's name bill something or tall like red-headed white guy and it's just like oh uh yes yes yes and there's a whole show about this because these kind of like all-star joes yeah they can compete against a retired nba guy they couldn't even score a point years after he retired yes it wasn't even good in the nba but still you're number 500 in the world at something you're going to destroy everyone else exactly you're going to destroy them their talent level is so it's unbelievable you played for people that don't know what team handball most people in america don't know you know because you've been in the olympics probably you've seen it yet it is an unbelievable sport and you talk about competitiveness yeah here's here's the thing my first year playing with team handball was 10 years ago uh i moved to new york city to join the new york um the new york city team because they were the national champions and there was only there's only clubs in the usa there's no one's getting paid no one really knows what the sport is right all europeans who have moved here who play the sport once a week and i made the usa national team nine months after starting the train with the the new york city team made the usa team and i remember going to argentina to compete in the pan am championships and this is i had a chance to play against the top teams in south america brazil and argentina and chile and all these teams and i'm going against olympians these are professionals playing in europe olympians i'm on the usa national team but i remember the first time i was up against an olympian i had zero chance like they just made me look like an idiot and i'm an elite player for the country yes on the usa team but these guys were so talented they knew every nuance they just knew what to do at all times that you had no chance so it doesn't even matter if you're elite at the college level you can't compete against these nba guys so and this is how so i have two i have two stories that you can relate to on this and how competitive these individuals are and how important winning is to them kobe's a was a big soccer fan huge huge soccer fan so you know when we would take the the nike trip to europe and he would always want to visit all these different teams and we were always challenged to stop a goal so like we would we would we would be the score we would be the goal we would be the kerala good luck and we were just and now remember you're talking about one of the best to ever play in a sport yeah basketball couldn't stop one probably ever we did this for seven years not one yeah they're not even trying they're just tapping we didn't even touch the ball we didn't even touch the ball i mean if professional goalkeepers can barely do it how are you gonna do it it's like then in michael's early career he loved team handball by the way who's that kobe loved team hamburg we talked about before our interview yes because i mentioned to him my time with him was you know something i'll always remember and i only had a an hour and a half with a guy you spent years with him but before we did the interview i was just like hey i really want to acknowledge you this wasn't on film but i was like i want to acknowledge you for all the olympians that i know friends of mine they all say how amazing you were during the olympics how you'd show up and take photos with everyone you were so generous and kind and you would show up at the events and watch people and support all these many other events so many yeah and here's the thing usa basketball they don't stay at the village the village we were like way way out and he would like say hey listen i want to go see someone we literally had a schedule this is what we're going to go see this is what we want to do and he and he was at every single one of those events every single one of those it's crazy and i mentioned i play with the usa handball team and he goes no way he goes i played handball growing up in italy i love team handball and so we were able to connect on that level but uh he was he was it's amazing to see what he's been able to create from that and you spent so much time with him what was what was that like when he was he was doubting himself what was that like when you would see him doubt himself he would maybe never talk about but how did he overcome the doubt well one thing that you have to do when you have the doubt is you gotta talk about it you gotta admit it you gotta admit it's there speak it speak it you you got you gotta admit you gotta admit it's there and you have to you either got to speak it to your self or speak it to an individual that's not going to judge you for it that isn't going to think you're weak that isn't going to think that hey why is this person why is this per why is this person doubting so here's the story championship number one two three championship number four so we had just lost i would say we but you know they had just lost to the boston celtics in game six what is this 2008 or something 2007 yeah 2007 2008 one of the one of those years so after the game he sits down and he has you know he has dinner with the coaches so they can go over the thing and they talk about his different uh uh then then afterwards he'll socialize a little bit with his teammates who go over the game plan and then after everything is done he'll send me would send me a text and i'd sit down and he was sitting there with me and this is a great after they lost this is after they lost the playoffs they didn't lose the playoffs they lost the game they lost game six and they were going into they were going into they were going into game seven got it all right and they had a chance to if they would have won game six they would won their championship it would have been over so he's sitting there and he's he looks at me and he we start talking he goes man i threw everything at him with the kitchen sink and i just looked at him i said why are you holding on to the sink right i said why are you holding on to the sink i said are you doubting did you doubt yourself for the moment i said did you save that sink for game seven i said if you were throwing a game in game six what are you saving it for and then we literally had a discussion about that moment of doubt that which was very rare to him what was but it was a the lakers celtic rivalry wow you know it was going to it was his first chance to win a championship without shaq so you know you hear all this stuff and no matter how many times you've won over and over again all right winning has no loyalty it doesn't recognize it recognizes you briefly and then it turns his head and starts looking for the other individual so and remember this was it was seven years now where he had won his la the last chapter yes between championship three between championship three was seven years that's a big drought for kobe right and now how many people in that time would really start doubting are you ever going to get that are you going to ever get there does he have it anymore can he do it do they have the tools yes and every athlete tells you this oh i don't pay attention to the media oh they read everything they read every day they watch every interview and they hold on to that yes yes they do yes they do every single so you know you after all those years and you know do you start to you start you're human you start to think man maybe they're right maybe i'm getting older maybe yeah so now let's hey listen everything that everybody else has been saying everything that you've been holding inside let's talk about this now so what did he say after the the sync part he just gave me that mama glare first of all you know that mom belonged because he knew i touched a yeah i i i touched a button that very few were afraid that didn't want that didn't want it that didn't want to touch and he didn't he didn't make any excuses he he he didn't make any excuses and i just said look how close we are um i said look how cool look how close we are i said we're one victory away wow after seven years oh man i said after seven years i said did you ever doubt that you'd get here again he said absolutely not i said while we're here let's not doubt that you're going to finish the job let's finish finish i said i can't finish a job for you i cannot finish a job for you i said nobody that you met with at this table can finish a job for you i said if you doubting that you can't finish the job then i'll go home tonight i'll go home tonight and michael was a complete opposite michael would in that aspect it was just like we would so back then the series were a little bit different they they changed the format it was two three two all right so you played two games at home three games on the road and then two because they wanted to minimize minimize minimize the travel so michael would tell you would be going into game six if you won game six on the road you you were done you won you won the championship so michael would literally tell all the team and the staff pack one suit yeah it's crazy pack for one day english don't pack for two pack for one that's crazy yeah he talked about it in the last dance i think as well yeah yeah six championships never needed a game seven really they never needed a game seven that's crazy yeah all right or we're or we got no clothes yeah yeah otherwise every we're naked we're gonna win where everybody's gonna say the hell are these people what the hell are these people doing and then you humiliate yourself because you didn't go all out exactly and for a moment we listen how many times in our lives have you really gone all in on something very few and then when you do go look at the results pretty undeniable yeah yeah look at the results so what do you think when we have these moments of doubt which you're saying we should speak about it and that day kobe was speaking about it with you speak it to somebody who's not going to judge you who will understand who's not just going to give you the answer it's okay everything's going to be fine there's another day there's another game what does that do for us by speaking the self-doubt acknowledging it what does that do well when you not when you acknow when you acknowledge it it's just like anybody what do they say what's the first thing doubt can become an addiction just like anything just like anything else all right and what's like winning yes so what do people say the first thing when you become an addict you got to talk about it you got to speak the poison out of your body yes like get it out talk about it it becomes less scary it doesn't have as much power over you yes if it's inside get it get it get it out what do you because what i might think you're doubting maybe completely different than something that you're doubting all right i may see something and you're like no that that's that's that's not it well okay let's let's let's talk about let's talk about this a little more explain to me explain to me what what's going on here what what created that doubt what created that doubt and we know after seven years those it had finally gotten to the point where it was just like and no one talked to him because he you know kobe wasn't going to talk to anybody about it you know he's never going to talk to the media about it no he said talk to some individual that's like hey okay listen i understand i'm just cr i'm not i'm as obsessed and as crazy as you are because that's why you hired me right all right that's why you hired me i understand the winning mentality i understand what what's going what's going on and what's going on and under here i understand the skeletons i understand the demons i get i get i get those things mine aren't the same as yours but i have them we all have them and very few can omit them so when you start mitting doubt and you start to be able to talk about it you take something that you've tried to bury in your closet that needs to be addressed but you're trying to hide it you're trying to bury it you're trying to put it away and winning requires you to show up with all of you it wants to show up the good the bad the fearful the doubt the anxiety the ups the downs it needs to see all of you otherwise it's never going to acknowledge you it's not going to acknowledge you and you can't win with just one thing you have to win with all of you all of it all of it what was the uh greatest three greatest lessons that kobe taught you we heard uh competing accountability and winning at all levels for michael what about kobe the three three big lessons he taught you obsession extremely high threshold for physical and mental pain discomfort [Music] and also winning they all had that in common the winning mindset the winning the winning yes what he called it the mama mentality what is it what is the mindset of winning they both had that obviously they both had a lot of things but what is the mindset of winning when someone adopts that mentality what does that do for them as opposed to the mindset of well whatever whatever result i get is fine or it's okay if i have this and i'm okay with that so i look at it i look at it three ways so you have individuals that compete you know a lot of people that compete yeah you know every we all know how to compete everybody knows how to come you don't forget how to compete we just decide not to anymore but a lot of people compete just to finish what all right right yeah they compete justification to compete just for the act of doing it just that active now i always say if you finishing that whatever you're competing in allows you to win at something else allows you say hey listen i just broke through a barrier yeah or if that's a win like for me i'm going to be running in a marathon later this year and i am not a distance runner you're doing it to overcome the challenge right of long distance that's your win but i'm not gonna win the marathon i'm not trying to right all right your goal but your win is to finish absolutely all right but so a lot of people's win there is it's not to finish it's just i'm just going to finish with finish without a purpose then there's individuals that win but they only win one time yeah the hardest thing is doing it over and over it's it's easy it's not easy to win right but it's easy to it's it's it's easy to win and then never win again i mean it's so hard to do it over and over consistently and then there's people that win at winning they win at winning yes that is an art and a science probably combined yes because here's how it goes you can't come back the same once you win you can't come back and cannot come back the same you have to come back different you have to come back better this is what i always says listen winning requires you to be different and different scares people absolutely it scares people so after each championship every single athlete high performance athlete that i've worked with even in business would come up to me and say what's next because i need to feel this again i need to feel this obsession yes i need to feel this again so they know they have to come back something about them has to be better they have to change continue to evolve and change how many teams do you know in professional sports that they bring the exact same team back i mean exact same team that win again they don't there's always a little change there's always a little tweak here there's a change over here there's something there's something that goes on over here and every athlete who's won multiple titles over and over again or even in different business people you look at you just had tony hair look he's won for decades four decades he's been doing this yes he's always reinventing always finding new coaches always mastering some skill learning evolving it's just like you just have to just watch what these individuals do just why he's not still using the same format he used 20 years like you said new coaches new content new things new everything and it's available to us but people like oh we did it once and we can do it the exact same way again you can't you can't you have there's people that win at winning and this is how this is extremely important on how they do this you said well how do you know how you make sure you just don't go through this we're all taught to manage time everyone tells you how to manage time you know make a list this is what you do and here it is uh you know have a little timer when it goes on and all this other stuff and one of the things that i've teach all my clients from business standpoint from an athletic standpoint i was like listen don't manage time manage focus what does that look manage focus so what happens is when you try to when you try to manage time the clock is always against you you're trying to finish off something and time goes by so quickly when you're in that moment when you're so focused when you're so focused you don't know if you've been at it for 30 minutes or you've been at it for an hour yeah or or weeks or weeks you just go you just go time creates distractions literally time if you're like managing time you get all these distractions that are going there what does focus do it blocks them out right so don't worry about managing time manage your focus be in that moment when you're in that moment and then you'll get so much more done during that time all right you know time tells you to stop all right focus tells you keep going when you focus what do you do you just keep going you just keep going you just keep going that's why i love creating scenarios and environments without the use of my phone it's like if you're going to a workout leave your phone somewhere else where you need to focus it's why i love having a trainer i'm doing boxing right now with a great trainer um here in la and when i'm with him for those two hours a week it's like time is gone because i'm just in the moment i can't think about anything else in my life i'm not on my phone because i got boxing gloves on i'm like there's pain there's stress it's like you've got to use every part of your mind your body for that hour yes and time goes away because i'm just focused and then you get individuals that go to a gym and on the phone the whole time in between right or here's the thing they wanna they're getting on a bicycle or they're getting on the step machine whatever they get on they spend more time playing with the music all right what music i got right genre and so forth so what do you do you're just like i got to do this for 20 minutes i got to do this for 20 minutes or i got to do this for 40 minutes you're not focused you're in your mind you're literally managing time you're thinking how long this is going to go going and you go in and you get that uh you get that hour 50 or hour 50 minutes whatever it is and it goes by yeah like this exactly because you are so focused during that if you're not focused you're going to hurt yourself you're going you're going to not get the result and not get the result exactly and that's what people do people settle for average when all you're doing out there is managing time you're just putting average stuff out there and it goes all the stuff in the chapters that come in i have everything listed number one because they all tie in they all tie in together you know managing full managing focus out of time ties into balance right it ties into balance and you know this is about the unforgiving race it this is everybody comes in and they see the work that you're putting out now they don't see eight years a thousand plus episodes and that's that was your unforgiving race and a lot of a part of it was unforgiving you didn't come out the same you came out different and when you came out different that difference scared a lot of people and i'm sure during that journey the peoples that were really close to you are no longer yeah they gotta accept you they gotta learn to accept you yes um otherwise they're not going to understand you and you're you're not going to have the time that you want to have with those people and that's okay too that's okay they don't need to kick them out of your life necessarily but you just may not be spending as much time with them if they're not understanding your mission your intention your focus uh your own race and now you get called selfish yeah and you get called self that you get called yourself it's winning requires you to be selfish you need to be all right what's wrong with taking care of self i've never understood that all right what's what's wrong all right so you ask an individual to hey i meditate they're not me but i'm just saying an individual says i meditate from three to three thirty and then oh you know that's really healthy for you that's that that's all for you're in a business atmosphere or somewhere you say hey listen no calls leave me alone i don't want to talk to anybody for the next 30 minutes you're selfish right we'd love to give these words for all right me time what's the difference between selfish and me time you know what what's what's that what's the difference there is no there is no difference but when you're taking something away from another individual that they want your time they want your energy they want your focus now all of a sudden you're selfish when you say no all right you work out every day i work out every day is that selfish no to take care of ourselves all right meditation self improvement reading all those things you do those things alone listening to podcasts whatever that's time to self why aren't people why don't people consider those selfish how did you create time for yourself when you were training these top athletes you know michael jordan kobe and dwayne are the you know three probably most successful i'm assuming that you've you trained the biggest champions yes well i've had you know i've been fortunate enough you know akeem elijah is also client of mine if you're a basketball charles barkley's been a client of mine tracy mcgrady's been a client i've had charles needs you back as a trainer yeah yeah so the one thing about charles is in one of my introduction videos uh he always just said i've lost 30 pounds and he repeats it over and over again because he's lost those same 30 pounds yes over and over again but um you just how did you find me time when the greatest athletes are so demanding of your time how were you able to do that you know while training them well you may have to cut down your me time [Music] all right but you know there were certain times that i didn't have to trap like if it when it like if it was uh if they were traveling only for or for a night and coming back i didn't take those i didn't take those trips so that allowed me to do what i wanted to do but you know there would be times when when i never worked for the organization i always worked directly for the player did you travel with the team i did not travel with something they paid you to separate to go travel on your own the individuals the client yes so this you know so people always talk about they get so surprised when an athlete invests seven figures and i was like they need to they need to and people like man that's i you hear this that's so selfish of them they should be how they win i you know i was uh i don't know if you know novak djokovic i don't know him toby was close friends with their buddies yes i talked about it with kobe that i know when he goes that's my guy i love novak i went to go watch novak right before the pandemic um here at indian wells and i went to go watch a match and afterwards we hung out with him he had a traveling gym a pod it was like an rv a couple rvs that had it was the coolest thing i've ever seen it had like float tank and sauna and ice bath and meditation pot all these things in there trainers with him it was like this is how i stay successful i don't do it by just going to bed at night i gotta stretch at night i gotta do all the things to wind down prepare myself for the next match tomorrow and this is why by investing i won't say how much he invested in that but it was like he's putting a lot of money on his health on his mindset on his trainers and his wife number one and like he said not only is he successful like you say he's won he's winning over and over and over again over again and that's what it takes to and and you people could be like oh that's that's selfish no it's not selfish it's selfish not to all right so i always look at at it this way all right if you're not obsessed what are you right if you're not going to be obsessed about it what are you doing yeah so he here's the thing all right people would call i look at what you do it would be selfish of you not to do it right not to serve the world at the highest level not to be able to get this information and help people be selfish exactly so if you don't take care of self if i'm not prepared and ready to go to these interviews we're not going to get the best information we're not going to help people that's how i look so when i see a person who's like not at the top of their game or you know a ceo or a business person that's not functioning well first first thing like all right maybe you need to be a little bit more some because i not only do i need you there's so many other people that are relying on you to be selfish so you can produce at the highest level yeah if i'm not selfish we can't pay the team we can't bring out more people and employ people all these things yeah why is it such a bad why is it such a bad why is it such a bad word right why do people look at winning requires you to be selfish in all forms of life if your goal is to say i'm going to be the best parent i'm going to raise these kids i'm going to do i'm going to do this the way it is you know if you want to talk about tiger woods is pit if those parents weren't selfish with tiger's time what would have the world missed out on people that didn't even know golf right watch golf yeah yeah well it's selfish for you not to be at your best it's selfish for you not to share your information it's selfish for you not to be the most talented individual that you could possibly be it's selfish for you not to share that talent with other individuals that's true side note did you ever score a point against kobe yes you did i did really i did what was that how many times a few times is this when you're scoring you're just shooting threes and they're not blocking it is that essentially or did you drive and you make a move and you're so pivoting and shopping so kobe was coming off an uh a an ankle injury i listen i take my time i listen one guy can't walk another one can't move yeah hey i take my chair i take it when i listen i've scored in every nba arena that's cool you mean you've you've made it not a bad yeah yeah when nobody's around i take the ball i've scored it every and every nba in every mba i've never scored in an nba game i've scored in every nba i've scored in every every nba ring so you know in kobe i was like hey man i just kind of just you know i could see him limping around and we're out there shooting on the bat shooting on the court a little bit and he's playing this fake defense and i kind of just go around and i'm like yes wow i got no video to know because listen no one's filming that yet no one's filming that and black then you know first of all michael there was no social media right and then when kobe was extremely extremely private yeah yeah in his early part of his career and towards the end or he became he was a little bit more open to sharing his family and you know and different things but other than he was extremely extremely private how many times when you interviewed did he tell you turn the camera off well he didn't actually which was fascinating i felt like um because i asked him beforehand this whole team i i don't know i feel like what i created with kobe was a magical moment of this you know our experience with him and because beforehand his whole team was prepping me we booked it the night before they wanted to do the interview like a month out and i was like if we don't do this tomorrow morning this isn't happening right because i already know he's going to be busy yes so they reached out and i was like we need to book this in the morning first thing or whatever tomorrow i'll do it anytime tomorrow but if we do it a week out it's not gonna work yeah he's gonna you know it's gonna fall through so i had my moment like the chance just like you and his ankles broken right and the team was there this is crazy i got there i think around 6 30 the interview was at eight and i'm on the first one there turn on the light the assistant opens the door lets me in we turn on the lights we go find a place where i'm going to go film we go walk through i don't know if you ever went to his office yeah we walk through and there's a big opening first and then there's like these glass windows that go into another room and i walked down there to look at the other room didn't like this setup anywhere so i walked back it's 6 30 a.m walk back on the last office on the left in the glass windows i see a the lights are off and i see a shadow in the back and for a second i'm like oh that's kobe back there it's 6 30 a.m and we walked past it and i talked to the assistant i go is that kobe he goes she goes yeah he's been here for over an hour yeah he was up at 4 training with his daughter and he's the first one here yeah and i go this guy just won an oscar he's like no reason to be here at 6 30. and he's not even on his phone or on his computer he was just like dreaming or visualizing or something was happening like he was just looking up at the ceiling like this and i was like this guy's a freak you know as a machine and we set up and we set up closer there but he couldn't see where we were setting up but he must have known that people were there and so i'm there for an hour and a half thinking is he going to come out is something going to happen people are starting to come in now it's getting closer to eight the lights turn on in his office probably at 7 50. uh and someone goes in and has a conversation but i don't see him until three minutes before eight now his team is prepping me everyone's there now and they gave me a list of all these things i cannot ask him i was like cool no problem and i know i had three minutes until we start because he had a hard out until i think it was little wayne he was like there as well setting up another production to do an interview it was like back to back all day i asked him these few questions before the interview just to build a connection with him and tell him you know i played handball and the olympics and this and this for whatever reason i said the same thing i said to you before this interview is there anything off limits and he said no he said i go i've i've got this whole sheet that your team told me not to ask like i understand i shouldn't go here here and here is there anything else off-limits he goes ask me anything you want yeah and take as long as you want and it's like wow so he gave me permission now i didn't disrespect him and according to things but he was he was uh he was in the zone and so focused in that moment which i was like this is this is cool you know to have him someone at that level to show he cares that much for someone he'd never met now later i found out candice parker i had on the show um recently and i said hey how did you hear about the show just curious like how did you hear she was a fan of the show and she said kobe told me about it i go what and she goes yeah i would always bug kobe and say what are you reading what are you listening to to help like improve my mind and she was like oh he mentioned your show that i should listen to it and watch it and i was like what so we you know we were supposed to have another interview that happened i was telling you this before we got on here and then the time we were going to schedule it was when i had a big conference so i was like well hopefully in the next few months that conference was in september and then in january i guess is when he passed unfortunately so i was always thinking i'd have many more times to interview him and sit down but that time never happened and i know that you spoke to him i think a week before you talk about in your book what was what was that conversation and that time like so we would go back and forth you know we text each other from time to time to say hey you good yeah i'm good you're good you know no long conversations what are you doing he's always chasing the next win that was that was that was that's the awesome tv that that was that was his thing and i said he was busy i was busy we tried to get together we're just like hey all-star game is in chicago so he was going to be i lived in chicago he was going to be he was going to he was going to come down there for the event and some business and some business stuff and never happened yeah and that it never happened and it was crazy i know there's a lot of people out there and that are in this space that tell you you have time i always used to tell kobe i said we don't have time every time every time we would work out every time we would prepare every time we would do something i would just be like this this is urgent this everything's urgency we don't we don't have we don't have time man i wish i was wrong boy i wish i was wrong because it literally it three days later that's when it really affected me i was sleeping i was in the middle of night because you just would just think it just this is not real it's not real and if you had a chance to meet him you know you got a chance to spend time you got a chance to spend time with them and you know what i'll tell you when they gave you that list you know it was a test with no right answers yeah that's what it was yeah the test would not with no with no right answers and you got that you got you you took it to a a level that very few people got a chance to very few people got a chance to see but he had this very innate trust with people right away that he just he just knew yeah like i felt like he trusted he was like right away it was like he was my best friend what it felt like there's there's something there's something but but if you lose that trust for a moment he's like never speak to you again oh my god oh my goodness i i oh my goodness you know just like hey just like it takes a second to turn a champion it takes one moment to turn a win into a loss a champion into a loser it's to say he was the same way he trusted you until you gave him a reason not to truly did you ever lose his trust never that's good never did he ever doubt you at some point besides questioning why are we doing this did he ever say oh no i didn't like the way you treated me here or said this and never never now not one moment you know i've had there's stories out there and people always ask me about this so i said well there's a reason they're not out there right all right you know i was blessed and privileged to see parts of their lives and spend time with them that nobody nobody's nobody's seen behind the scenes yes i mean even even behind those scenes just you and him yes get a chance to experience things that very few people would ever get a chance to experience and when somebody's that open with you you know and they're aligning you into a space that very very few see you yeah maybe his wife only yeah and they have enough trust in you to call you up at three o'clock in the morning or whatever it is to say hey you know meet me so and so i just need to sit down and have a comment have a conversation and the one thing i always tell all my clients everything business schools professionals i don't judge [Music] i don't judge i need to know my job is to help you create wins over and over and over again all right that's my i'm not here i'm not here to judge all right and when you get across that point i've written this as a second this is the second book i've written and when i wrote the first one there was no fear or doubt from any of them that i was going to be it was going to be like a tell-all book right right no i don't do that yeah i i don't i don't do that you know there's certain parts of each individual yourself myself that we share with very few people and there's a reason we share that with very few people yeah and once that trust is broken it's extreme i don't think so it can be it can't be mended it might take years until you can build it again it just it just is you just you just can't how did that come about did did michael give you permission to work with kobe did kelly court you for years and saying you're done with michael i want to i want to have you train so i've never you know obviously kobe and i had we had we knew of each other because we would kind of pass back and forth and we'd see each other we're training michael yes you know and i would always you know every time i approached i'd say listen you know through these i kobe he had an individual he studied steady was working with and i just told him i said listen if your trainer ever needs anything or just needs any information i said please have them reach out to me or or vice versa so in 2007 kobe reached out to michael and said listen my knees are in like are so bad i don't know if i can play anymore i don't i don't i don't know if i can play i don't know if i can play anymore and he said listen because you have any suggestions you have anything he goes listen this is not my field he goes you know i'm not using grover anymore you know give him a shot and so kobe goes well how long were you not working with michael since that point it was it was it was a while i mean michael was done in the michael was done in the early late 90s so it was gotcha yeah i mean i was still working with other uh other athletes but not normal i was still working with duane i was i had started working with dwayne during that during that time so then he said hey reach out reach out to him and he goes well he goes well i really he goes tell me about grover and best endorsement i ever got so he goes man that guy really knows his stuff but he's the biggest you'll ever meet best compliment and he was like perfect i need that yeah because that's that's probably he said what do you mean by that he goes he's not going to take your he's not going to treat you like you're the superstar he's going to hold you accountable when he when you don't do something right he's going to call you out on it you know and he goes if you can't handle that he goes oh no this is perfect for me yeah he needed that yeah he was this this is this is actually perfect for me because he had like you know just like with the tennis player djokovic there's a lot of people around mm-hmm all right and what i described earlier how do you get back to that win sometimes you have to delete a lot of the stuff that's going around because now it's not a cohesive team well everybody everybody's looking everybody's saying this is the way it should be done this is how i would do it this is a and pieces start to fall in place so i came in i just said listen what's our goal you know everybody talks about these different you know they want to put their thoughts and they want to put everything on that i said and they everyone makes this list and i just put wind at the top yeah that's it that's that's when we don't win that's all we're here for otherwise yeah that that's what that's what we're here for whatever it takes i said if he wins we all win yeah i said if he loses guess what we all lose and we will not be here [Music] we will not be here wow so let's everybody let's figure this thing out together let's put the pieces in place like you should be talking because the team wasn't talking to each other so i came in i got everybody started to talk to each other his personal team yeah it's just like not the not the lakers right it's perfect they're not they're not taught they're not talking to each other all right everybody's not you know i don't know what this person's doing you don't know what this person is doing i i said we need to get everybody on the same way after every treatment every workout everything that goes on you should know what this person does everything everybody everybody should know and this was before you know we weren't i wasn't going to require anybody to do a google you know a spreadsheet or a google doc all that i was like listen we need to every single day get together on a phone get a thing and say this is what i did this is what i did this is where i did so so we know and when i started work started to work with him you know i looked at what was going on with his with his knees and i had some ideas i had some thoughts i said okay this is what you've been planning these are the surgeries that you've had i said this is probably going to take i said probably take about eight weeks to alleviate this pain and i put a real specific program for him to say this is what we're going to do i kind of describe it in the book a little bit and i said this is what we're going to do and he started to feel better and started to feel the knee started to come around and he was able to play play play in the olympics in 2008 during that time and just took off some kind of gave a ferrari or lamborghini the necessary tune-up it really needed and the genuine parts that were necessary to get him playing again at the highest level and oh he believed in me but the one thing he always said was just like when a reporter asks him later he goes hey i heard you're working out with uh with michael jordan's uh a guy tim grover because what do you think about him he goes he ain't doing it for me yet he goes i don't know he goes because you want to ask michael what he did for him for he hasn't done anything for me which was a perfect answer which was the perfect answer because too many people when we talked about the three things about winning the people that compete the people that win once and the people that win over and over again you're only good as your last win sure all right you're only as good as you let you're only as good as your last win that's it so it wasn't it was important to me to say hey listen yeah what i did for michael doesn't matter judge me by what i'm gonna what i what i what i do what i do for you all right and you and i are kind of similar in this in this situation here so when you got your first big interview whoever that may be i was like well oh you can't do it again now you got your next yeah yeah oh you can't do it again now you got your next night now you got your now you got your next one so people always oh you did it with michael go do it with somebody else all right i'll go do a call oh you did it with kobe we'll go do it with someone else all right i go do it with dwayne go do it with somebody so it's just kind of like yeah all right just to show you that this is this is not this is not a fluke and it's not again not to prove them right it's to prove you're something yes you know you can that you just didn't fall into this that all the years that you were in this unforgiving race to win all the stairs that you climbed all the stairs that you missed all the people that doubted you you finally got to say hey the way colby describes winning winning is everything um yeah winning is everything that's true and what about dwayne what was the three big lessons from him how long were you training dwayne oh dwight so the interesting story was there was some crossover between kobe kobe and duane where i would literally have to get i was literally flying from orange county to miami to miami oh yeah because i was during the playoffs i was taking care of both so it was that's intense yeah that that was well i had one i had more frequent five miles during that during that time and all the flight attendants knew knew who who i was duane was she dwayne was a huge very quiet huge family person like his kids were like so so important to him like they were like very very very very very very important the time i went when i was dealing with him he was going through an extremely bad divorce and there was a custody battle that that was going on so to be able to with kobe i mean with dwayne one of the things that that i really learned from him was resiliency wow oh like you like with resilient like how resilient he was with everything that was going because he had it here to be the leader of the team yes try to win but also deal with a divorce custody kids the emotions of it all and then focus when it mattered that's so hard to do that is so that is so hard to do but you know what the greatest individuals they don't bring their personal stuff it's so hard to do it's it's not easy it's not it's not easy but they they just they just don't because you know why the game gives them that that that that square yeah it's an outlet and it's like hey you can't you can't touch me you can't touch me in that space at least for those couple hours right but then you got to deal with everything else yes and as m and that's whatever you have to deal with it's still gonna it's still gonna be there most people don't win because they let other distractions them away from what's really really what's really really important those distractions are still going to be there it doesn't matter we talk you know all these you've talked to all these individuals and i've dealt with numerous them they're people they have the same issues that you and i have all right they have relationship problems all right they usually have more issues because they got the media the attention the we just drama the gossip that they have to do that they have to that they have to deal with so is it a compartmentalization of of distractions is it something else like how do how did the best do it those distractions actually elevate their play really yeah they actually at every single time so every single every single athlete i've ever worked with every little c or co person their distractions make them even more focused during that experience you look at the numbers with those individuals when there's a distraction when that when they're going through something personal or something their numbers actually go up their productivity actually go their productivity actually goes up and the people the other ones their stuff actually goes because now they have to they their level of focus is even at a higher level it says zone in more yes yeah yes so resiliency is one for dwayne what's the other two would you say two lessons fun seems like a fun dude really a happy guy yes a really really really really fun dude all right and the other thing was he had the shortest memory wow like if he missed a shot okay yeah don't hold on don't hold on don't hold on it's just like how many contacts would people have in their phone that from individuals you haven't heard you're not you haven't heard from in 10 15 years you just won't delete the contact right how much stuff do you have it how about thousands of contacts how many st how many people how much stuff do you individuals have in their closet that yeah never coming back in style you're never going to fit in it again they just hold on to rid of that stuff and people do the same thing they have one bad game where they have one they have one bad report about them or something says somebody says it changes their whole mood it changes their whole ideas it changes their whole complexity of themselves dwayne was just like shortest memory yeah that's crazy and fun has a lot to do with that and winning is fun all right winning is fun the road to get to that fund to win is not it's challenging it's challenging if you can make it fun that's a that's a bonus yeah but you know what it's pain though how do you make how do you make it fun you got to be able to laugh at yourself yeah exactly you laugh at yourself you know like okay i'm not supposed to be here you're not supposed to be here it's just like you know you're just like yeah you're you're right i'm not supposed to be here i'm not supposed to be sitting in l.a talking to louis i'm not all right this is we met at the grants event for the first yeah i don't know how many how many years ago yeah and i don't know how many four or five whatever whatever that whatever that was no it's just would when you were lying down i think it's on your sister's couch would you ever think about i mean i think about it but i didn't know if it would happen when it would happen how it's going to happen all these things when you had that injury that was like you know it's devastating is it is it done all right and people say that person's in a dark place but you know what that's where a lot of the healing happens is when you're in that in that place by yourself when you really get to understand who you are and what it what it takes when you had those moments by yourself on that sofa and you're sitting around and you just said yeah i could sit here all day all night if i wanted to but those voices started to talk to you and say hey this is more out there that's when your brain really started to work that's when the chemistry really started to come in that's when the dopamine hits started to come in because you're like this is no longer available to me but there's so much more out there for me absolutely yeah yeah i've got a couple final questions for you this has been inspiring but i want people to get the book winning the unforgiving race to greatness um a lot of great praise around this from some of the top athletes coaches in the world it's gonna inspire you a lot more lessons and stories if you enjoyed this conversation you're gonna get a lot more in here as well about how to win and the unforgiving race to greatness love the title um i'm not going to ask you who's the best basketball player but who's the best athlete who was like man they were just freak athlete and anything they wanted to do they could do it that you trained anyone you trained it doesn't have to be trained it doesn't have to be mj or kobe but of all the people you train who is like this person is the greatest athlete athletically gifted talented not the best basketball player but right let's see cause i know you probably don't like answering that question yeah i don't ask that yeah it's it's tough let me try to think you got to think about this word for a little bit like their reaction time their their speed they're quick they could take on any sport anything i know they're all great athletes with lots of sports but who is like man this person just is the doesn't love to win at everything but they do win in everything because they're so good as an athlete well so here's the thing the athlete that i'm thinking about comes from comes to my uh mind from an athletic standpoint he was literally off the charts but he didn't win because he was so athletic really yes what do you mean he didn't win because he was so athletic because he relied on his athletic ability gosh you know what 20. what's funny about this there was a guy when i was i was in eighth grade he was uh going into freshman year he was a senior he was the freakiest athlete that i'd ever seen at that time now i'm like a 13 year old you know skinny white dude who could barely jump and all these things and he had a 40-something inch vert he was like just chiseled jacked could shoot three so smooth unbelievable i just never seen a gifted athlete like this 360 dunking easy whatever he wanted to do he could do it but he wasn't a winner like he would buckle under pressure or he didn't believe in himself and i was like man it doesn't matter how much of a great athlete you are if you don't have the ability to believe in yourself overcome adversity challenges and obstacles and the flip side of that if you're not the best athlete but you have the mentality of a winner and you're willing to go harder and overcome adversity and self-doubt you can win yes give me somebody with a little less talent and that uh everything that you and more of whatever you attention i would take that every single time they all my greatest the you know my top individuals they weren't the greatest athletes out there but they had they were great they were great athletes they were great people they were great competitors all right they were great givers they were great extremely coachable they were great at winning and they knew how to elevate everybody else around them which is so important now they didn't they all did it in different ways it's easy to elevate yourself it's easy to get the most out of yourself all right it's so difficult to get the most of everyone else to get the most out of every every everyone else so this guy who was i can't give his name to his name but the guy you were training he was a better athlete than everyone else was unbelievable but what was he not able to do he didn't have he wasn't coachable or he wasn't able to get the best of everyone else more concerned about the brand the way he looked or his yes you know that is actually yes than winning and winning listen winning is all-consuming it needs to be like hey i'm the only thing that matters right now i'm the otherwise just going to turn its attention to somebody else right and i'm the only thing and the teams the only thing that matters if it's a team sport yeah otherwise well you have you could score 100 points but you might lose right and that's around elevating the elevating a team what i've done with each one of my athletes and i continue to do this you know you have your team goals but i said i want what are your individual goals that are going to help obtain the team goals and what are the individual goals that might be up here that are going to be best for you but not best for the team yeah you scoring 60 a game it's not going to be best for the team right but you scored 35 on average and 40 50 a couple times yes so i just said now where are we on this where where are we where we are where we are on this because if you're over here on this then we're not getting over it we're not getting over here and i said if we're more over here where we can we'll get we'll get cause if you give if you give just enough you'll get so much more from these under from these from these these individuals here that's what we learned from uh michael in the last dance i'm talking about that as well yeah um okay couple final questions this is a question i asked everyone at the end called the three truths so i'd like you to imagine a hypothetical scenario it's the last day on earth many years away from now you get to live as old as you want to live but for whatever reason you've gotta uh take everything you've ever created this book this interview it's all going to go with you to the next place so no one has access to your words content or anything you've ever said hypothetical but you get to leave behind three lessons three things you know to be true from all of your experiences in life this is all we would have to remember you by these three principles lessons what i like to call truths what would you say those three truths for you control your thoughts control your emotions you'll control the outcome now it comes down to being able to manage the the bombs in your mind like you talked about and not reacting emotionally from these scenarios you you're not your thoughts yeah listen because i've had some thoughts if i acted on them yeah yeah all right emotions listen we all have them but you don't have to react to every single emotion out there and is it i'm not telling you not to be emotional but it's an emotional that's is created by yourself or as an emotion that somebody else created inside inside of you [Music] right and then you know be happy live your life go out there and do things like you put out all this information knowledge is power but only if you use it right you know you should from the individuals that you hear from don't be don't be so excited for the next episode if you haven't absorbed and learned from the episode before absolutely yeah well everybody's always about what's next what's next what's next well what's now yeah what's now that's what i'm talking about yeah what's what's now i'm excited about this book winning the unforgiving race to greatness uh tim before i ask the final question i want to acknowledge you for the way you've been showing up for the greatest athletes in the world for the last two three decades and how you've continued to improve and evolve yourself thank you how you continue to take the information and distill it in ways that we can receive it and understand for our life so we can improve the quality of our life and i acknowledge you for constantly overcoming the challenges that you might be facing in your life we didn't get to talk about a lot of that stuff you personally going through but for you to create even when you might be struggling or going through your own stuff is really inspiring because you're here to serve other people so we all are of course we all are and the more people you serve the better you feel about yourself the more people when i said winning is everything the feeling that it gives when you see yourself win when you see your family when you see your kids win when you see others win it's amazing it's it's undescribable it's undescribable and i know louis and you and i are very similar in this when people come up to you says man your words or your show or whatever your book it changed my life that's a special feeling absolutely that's a special feeling and i always tell individuals you know what you changed your life we you took action yeah you took the time you listened we were a small part of it thank you thank you for thank you for acknowledging it for sure but just to have to be that powerful to have somebody come up to you and just say that and when you win you change other people's lives you you change your life you change other people's lives absolutely they can get the book they can follow you on social media tim grover everywhere on social media anywhere else we can go to support you besides getting the book online our website website is tim timgrover.com my instagram is at tim grover perfect awesome all right so make sure to connect with tim over there and say hi to him let him know the part of this episode you enjoyed the most lots of more information inside the book so make sure to get a few copies for your friends as well uh final question for you what's your definition of greatness no regrets no regrets i did everything there you go i may have not done it the best but i did after everything i love it tim thank you man thank you thank you so much i think the definition of greatness is to inspire the people next to you yeah i think that's what greatness is or should be it's not something that's that that lives and dies with one person it's how can you inspire a person to then in turn inspire another person that then inspires another person that's how you create something i think last forever

Channel: Lewis Howes

Views: 193,142

Keywords: Lewis Howes, Lewis Howes interview, school of greatness, self help, self improvement, self development, personal development, success habits, success, wealth, motivation, inspiration, inspirational video, motivational video, success principles, millionaire success habits, how to become successful, success motivation, Tim Grover, Tim Grover interview, tim grover motivation, tim grover relentless, tim grover michael jordan, michael jordan interview, kobe bryant interview

Id: URBPD_HSQcc

Length: 120min 52sec (7252 seconds)

Published: Mon May 24 2021