>>> TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, DID THE PRESIDENT OR HIS COMPANY EVER INFLATE ASSETS OR REVENUES? >> YES. >> AND WAS THAT DONE WITH THE PRESIDENT'S KNOWLEDGE OR DIRECTION? >> EVERYTHING WAS DONE WITH THE KNOWLEDGE AND AT THE DIRECTION OF MR. TRUMP. >> THAT WAS DONALD TRUMP'S FORMER PERSONAL ATTORNEY, MICHAEL COHEN, TESTIFYING ABOUT THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION BEFORE THE HOUSE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE BACK IN 2019. APART FROM ALLEN WEISSELBERG WHO JUST PLEADED GUILTY TO 15 FELONIES, THERE WERE A FEW PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF THE IMMEDIATE TRUMP FAMILY WHO KNOW THE COMPANY BETTER. JOINING ME NOW IS MICHAEL COHEN. HE'S NOW THE HOST OF THE "MEA CULPA" PODCAST AND THE AUTHOR OF "REVENGE." MICHAEL, ALWAYS HAPPY TO HAVE YOU HERE. I SEEN APPRECIATE YOUR CANDOR BECAUSE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW, RIGHT? SO LET'S GET INTO IT. ALLEN WEISSELBERG, HE HAS TO TESTIFY AT THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION'S UPCOMING TRIAL IN OCTOBER. THAT'S A PART OF A HIS PLEA DEAL. ISN'T IT INEVITABLE THAT HE'S GOING TO IMPLICATE TRUMP DIRECTLY? >> IT SEEMS THAT WAY. I RECEIVED AFTER THE WEISSELBERG PLEA -- I RECEIVED NO LESS THAN MAYBE 50 PHONE CALLS FROM JOURNALISTS ALL OVER THE WORLD. IT'S NOT EVEN JUST IN THIS COUNTRY. MANY TURN AROUND AND SAY I HEARD THAT THE QUESTIONS THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE ASKING WEISSELBERG ARE MERELY ABOUT THE APARTMENTS, THE CARS, THE PERKS THAT WERE GIVEN AND NOT ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE. THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME. I MEAN, THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE ABOUT THE WORST MOVE THAT ALVIN GREG MAKES, INCLUDING DROPPING THE CASE AGAINST TRUMP IN THE FIRST PLACE SIMPLE BECAUSE HERE'S WHAT HAPPENS. THE GUY'S GETTING FIVE MONTHS FOR 15 COUNTS OVER GOD KNOWS HOW MANY YEARS. IT'S CLOSE TO $2 MILLION. IT WAS A SCHEME WITHIN WHICH TO DEFRAUD. WE KNOW THAT HIS SONS WERE ALSO BEING LOOKED AT, SO CLEARLY THEY MUST NOW GET A PASS. ON TOP OF THAT, HE IS REQUIRED TO TESTIFY. WHY WOULD YOU LIMIT THE EXTENT OF THE TESTIMONY THAT PROSECUTORS WANT TO ASK? AND ONLY ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE PERKS THAT WERE GIVEN TO HIM, WHICH IS WHAT'S NOW GOING TO PUT ALLEN WEISSELBERG IN RIKERS ISLAND FOR AT LEAST A MINIMUM OF 100 DAYS. >> THAT IS A REAL HEAD-SCRATCHER. AS A FORMER PROSECUTOR, I LOOK AT IT, I REMEMBER HAVING ANALYSIS. I'VE DONE LEGAL ANALYSIS ON THE FACT THAT HE HAD JENNIFER WEISSELBERG WHO WAS ABLE TO TALK ABOUT WHERE THE BODIES WERE BURIED. WE KNOW SHE GAVE DOCS, YOU GAVE DOCUMENTS AND TESTIMONY. YOU MET GOD KNOWS HOW MANY TIMES WITH PEOPLE, PROSECUTORS, ET CETERA, CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEES. YOU JUST TALK ABOUT WEISSELBERG'S KIDS HAVING EXPOSURE HERE. THERE WERE SO MANY PRESSURE POINTS, SO MANY POTENTIAL ACHILLES HEELS THAT HE COULD HAVE PRESSED TO GET SOMETHING MEATIER THAN WHAT WE'RE HEARING NOW, WHICH IS FIVE MONTHS. ALLEN WEISSELBERG, I DON'T KNOW, MAY I CALL IT CREDIT, MICHAEL. WHAT COULD BE MOTIVATING HIM TO REMAIN LOYAL TO DONALD TRUMP AND NOT FLIP? >> YOU DON'T KNOW ANSWER. CLEARLY THERE'S GOT TO BE SOMETHING WRONG WITH HIM. I CAN CALL IT MAYBE STUPIDITY, IN THE FACT THAT HE SAW WHAT HAPPENED TO ME. NOW, IN THE BOOK YOU MENTIONED "REVENGE" COMING OUT IN OCTOBER, I WANT TO REALLY LET YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON IN THAT BOOK. IT TALKS ABOUT HOW DONALD TRUMP WEAPONIZED THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO GO AGAINST HIS CRITICS. THIS IS ALL PART OF THE DONALD TRUMP PLAN. SOMEHOW OR ANOTHER HE GETS PEOPLE TO TAKE THE FALL FOR HIM, INCLUDING MYSELF, TOOK RESPONSIBILITY FOR THINGS THAT I ACTUALLY NEVER DID. YES, CAMPAIGN FINANCE VIOLATION AS A BENEFIT TO DONALD TRUMP, YES, THAT'S ALL TRUE. THE REST OF THE STUFF, NOT ACCURATE. SO YOUR QUESTION WHY IS IT -- AND I GET THIS ALL THE TIME. WHY IS IT PEOPLE STAY LOYAL TO HIM WHEN THEY WATCH THEIR ENTIRE LIVES GET DESTROYED, THROWN RIGHT DOWN THE DUMPSTER WHILE DONALD TRUMP IS SITTING STUFFING HIS FACE AT MAR-A-LAGO? IT MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE. IT TOOK ME GOING TO PRISON TO WAKE UP AND TO EXTRICATE MYSELF FROM THE CULT OF DONALD TRUMP. AND I'M THANKFUL THAT IT DID HAPPEN. >> MICHAEL, YOU TALK ABOUT MAR-A-LAGO. WE ALWAYS REFERENCE YOU AS FORMER PERSONAL COUNSEL TO DONALD TRUMP. YOU HEARD IN THE NEWS MEDIA REPORT SINCE THAT WARRANT WAS EXECUTED AT MAR-A-LAGO THE STRUGGLES THAT DONALD TRUMP HAS BEEN HAVING TO SECURE COMPETENT COUNSEL TO DEFEND HIM. WHY WOULD ANY LAWYER WITH A LICENSE THAT WANTS TO REMAIN A BARRED ATTORNEY, WHY WOULD A LAWYER MAKE UP THE MANTLE TO DEFEND DONALD TRUMP AFTER SEEING PEOPLE LIKE YOU, WHO USED THEIR LEGAL ACUMEN TO ASSIST DONALD TRUMP IN HIS BUSINESS DEALINGS AND HIS OTHER DEALINGS? >> RIGHT. AS YOU'RE WELL AWARE, EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO COUNSEL. EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO A DEFENSE. I SEE IT A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. IT'S NOT THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO LOSE THEIR LICENSE AND DONALD, OF COURSE, IS A DISGRACEFUL, NONEMPATHETIC NARCISSISTIC SOCIOPATH. THE REASON IS FOR THE LAST 45 TO 50 YEARS SINCE HE STARTED THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION, HE HAS BASICALLY STIFFED VIRTUALLY EVERY SINGLE LAW FIRM THAT HE HAS COME INTO CONTACT WITH, SO THE LAWYERS AREN'T THINKING ABOUT, HEY, DO I REPRESENT DONALD OR NOT, I DON'T LIKE HIM OR HIS POLICIES OR HIS RACIST, SEXIST, MISOGYNISTIC ANTI-SEMITIC RHETORIC. THEY WOULD LOVE TO TAKE THE CASE WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO BE MAKING A LOT OF MONEY, EVEN THOUGH THEY DON'T LIKE THE PERSON OR THE POLICY. THEY'RE DOING IT BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GET PAID. THEY KNOW HE'S AN ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE CLIENT TO DEAL WITH BECAUSE HE WANTS TO RUN HIS OWN LITIGATION DESPITE THE FACT HE HAS NO IDEA WHAT HE'S DOING. SO WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO TAKE ON A DIFFICULT CLIENT WHEN YOU KNOW THAT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET PAID AS WELL? THAT'S THE PROBLEM FOR DONALD. >> SO MICHAEL, ALSO ALLEN WEISSELBERG AT THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION, AS YOU KNOW, HE DIDN'T OPERATE IN A VACUUM. WE KNOW HE WAS DOING THINGS AT THE DIRECTION OF, FOR THE BENEFIT OF, ANY PHRASE YOU WANT TO PUT, OF AND FOR DONALD TRUMP. BUT IF WEISSELBERG DOESN'T IMPLICATE TRUMP DIRECTLY IN THIS TRIAL, DO YOU THINK IT'S POSSIBLE THAT HE COULD IMPLICATE THE TRUMP CHILDREN, FOR EXAMPLE, OR SOMEBODY IN THE PRESIDENT'S FAMILY OR INNER CIRCLE? WHO WOULD BE MOST CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT ALLEN WEISSELBERG HAS TO SAY IN HIS UPCOMING TESTIMONY? >> IN FACT, EVERYBODY SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT TESTIMONY. DO I THINK IT'S POSSIBLE DONALD TRUMP WON'T BE IMPLICATED IN WEISSELBERG'S RESPONSES? THE ANSWER IS NO. WHY? BECAUSE SOMETHING I SAID TO YOU BEFORE, I SAID ON A MULTITUDE OF SHOWS, NOTHING WENT ON AT THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION. TO THE SAME EXTENT, NOTHING WENT ON IN THE WHITE HOUSE WITHOUT THE KNOWLEDGE AND AT THE DIRECTION OF DONALD TRUMP, NOTHING. I'M TALKING ABOUT IF THERE WERE GOING TO BE PENCILS PURCHASED OR PAPER CLIPS, DONALD TRUMP KNEW ABOUT IT BECAUSE HE SIGNED EVERY SINGLE CHECK, ALMOST EVERY SINGLE CHECK WENT TO HIS DESK FOR SIGNATURE. THE ONLY ONES THAT DIDN'T WERE THE RECURRING ONES LIKE PHONE BILLS, THINGS LIKE THAT. IF THERE WERE A NEW INVOICE, DONALD TRUMP PERSONALLY SIGNED IT. HE HAD A STACK OF CHECKS YEA BIG. IN THE CREATION OF THE PERSONAL FINANCIAL STATEMENTS, WHICH ARE NOT ACCURATE, ET CETERA, ET CETERA, DID DONALD TRUMP KNOW THAT THE INFORMATION PROVIDED IN THOSE PERSONAL FINANCIAL STATEMENTS WERE INACCURATE AND DID HE USE THOSE DOCUMENTS IN ORDER TO OBTAIN LOANS AND BENEFITS, WHETHER IT'S INSURANCE BENEFITS ET CETERA? AND THE ANSWER HAS TO BE YES. HE'S NOT THE ONLY ONE THAT WAS INVOLVED. THERE ARE MANY, MANY PEOPLE AT THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION, THE CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER, MATT CALAMARI, HE GOT THE EXACT SAME PERKS AS ALLEN WEISSELBERG DID. SO I THINK HE'S POTENTIALLY UP ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK. THE KIDS, THE SAME THING. SO I THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE A MULTITUDE OF INVESTIGATIONS THAT COME OUT OF THE ALLEN WEISSELBERG SENTENCING HEARINGS. >> MICHAEL, I WANT TO ASK YOU FOR AN UPDATE ON YOUR LAWSUIT. YOU MENTIONED YOUR BOOK THAT'S COMING OUT VERY SOON, "REVENGE" BUT YOU SUED BECAUSE IT WAS THE WEAPONIZATION OF THE DOJ, THE IRONY DOESN'T ESCAPE MANY OF US, RIGHT, THE FACT THAT TRUMP IS NOW COMPLAINING THAT THE CURRENT DOJ IS BEING WEAPONIZED AGAINST HIM. BUT CAN YOU BRIEFLY GET US CAUGHT UP TO SPEED ON WHAT'S GOING ON WITH YOUR LAWSUIT THAT YOU FILED AGAINST DONALD TRUMP. FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL WILLIAM BARR AND OTHERS FOR EXTENDING YOUR PRISON SENTENCE AND WHAT YOU HAVE ALLEGED WAS RETALIATION FOR PUBLISHING YOUR FIRST BOOK. >> KATIE, LET ME SAY THIS TO YOU. I'M NOT THE ONE WHO ALLEGED IT. I DO REITERATE IT IN THE COMPLAINT AGAINST, AS YOU RIGHTFULLY STATED T DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, U.S. GOVERNMENT, DONALD TRUMP, BILL BARR AND A MULTITUDE OF OTHER PEOPLE. THAT STATEMENT CAME FROM JUDGE ALVIN HELLERSTEIN, THE JUDGE AT THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK WHO SAW EXACTLY WHAT WAS GOING ON AND COMMENTED IN A RELATIVELY SHORT TIME PERIOD DURING A HEARING THAT THIS IS NOTHING SHY OF RETALIATION BY THE PRESIDENT OR BY BILL BARR AGAINST A U.S. CITIZEN IN ORDER TO PREVENT HIM FROM EXERCISING HIS FIRST AMENDMENT CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS. WHERE ARE WE? APPROXIMATELY THREE WEEKS AGO WE HAD A HEARING. WE'RE WAITING FOR JUDGE LIEMON, THE SITTING JUDGE IN THIS CASE TO RULE. OF COURSE GOVERNMENT MADE MOTIONS TO DISMISS THE COMPLAINT, WHICH OF COURSE IS WHAT THEY DO. ALINA HAVA, TRUMP'S ATTORNEY GOT UP AND USING THE SAME FAILED, AFFORDABLE, RIDICULOUS ARGUMENT, SHE COMES OUT AND SHE CLAIMS THAT YOU CANNOT SUE DONALD TRUMP BECAUSE HE HAS ABSOLUTE IMMUNITY. I MEAN, SHE'S LOST THAT ARGUMENT, I THINK, NOW ON SOMETHING LIKE SEVEN OR EIGHT CASES BUT CONTINUES TO USE IT THINKING MAYBE ONE DAY IT WILL BE A GOOD DEFENSE FOR DONALD. >> I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT. I MEAN, YOU AND I AS LAWYERS, WE KNOW THAT THAT ONE'S NOT GOING TO FLY. MICHAEL, I'M GOING TO SAY GOODBYE TO YOU NOW. I'M GOING TO SAY THANK YOU FOR YOUR CANDOR AND TRANSPARENCY. YOU CALL THE BALLS AND STRIKES AS THEY SHOULD BE. BEFORE WE GO T D.A.'S OFFICE IS NOT GOING TO GO INTO THIS OCTOBER TRIAL WITHOUT CERTAIN AMMUNITION OTHER THAN ALLEN WEISSELBERG. THEY HAVE ALL THE FINANCIALS, AS WE KNOW, FROM, YOU KNOW, MAY CZARS. >> A LOT OF PAPER. I PROVIDED ADDITIONAL DOCUMENTS AS WELL TO THEM. THEY HAVE A MULTITUDE. THE TRUTH IS THEY DIDN'T NEED ALLEN WEISSELBERG. THEY HAVE SO MUCH DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE TO HOLD A MULTITUDE OF PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE. THAT'S WHY MARK POMERANTZ AND CARRIE DUNN WALKED AWAY AFTER THEY CAME IN AND ALLOWED THE TRUMP CASE TO EXPIRE. KATIE, IT'S ALWAYS GREAT TO SEE YOU. ALWAYS IMPORTANT FOR ME TO CONTINUE TO SPEAK TRUTH TO POWER.
